Sugestions?

Cryonics.

I'm thinking it shouldn't have to come to that. Your still actually dieing.

Actually, if they find a way to revive a person that is already dead, death is conquered.

Change the laws of physics

Crunchy Cat is right. All should surrender. The War on Death is lost. It's hopeless. The war was over before it even started. Everyones fighting for no reason. Let us all die not even putting up a fight. Theres more valuable things. The meaning of life is death. Lets put no effort into the war on death. Whats the point.

Cottontop

You still have to die just not permanently. I'd rather not die at all. Now if the world got together.......

I just think the war on death needs more media, word of mouth etc behind it. More internationally recognisable logos. Websites. People meeting together and speaking with the respect and concern that war should be given Anything that gives it more attention or progresses it. The war on death needs organisation. People that believe its possible need to focus more attention and be brought together in meetings or something. Surely its not a waste of time to be fighting for immortality. If you think it is then just ignore what you see and hear about the war on death and laugh at us for being fools. Impossible is being me and trying to get people to organise against death. I'm not happy with how the world is fighting the war on death. What can I do? Here I am. I should shut my mouth. What hope do I have.

Couldn't we start off by not killing each other? I don't mean us, personally, but in general. Wars and stuff.

If enough people started preaching that noones gunna die permanently, err everyone gets brought back to life at some point in the future, by humans not god, then the people that want to kill might see that there was less point to it. Like whats the point of killing someone if they don't actually die. I'm sure the people of the future will have ways of punishing people to. That could also be preached. Preached is a nasty word isn't it.

Are you a believer?

You could make a law allowing people to reproduce only after a certain age, and then gradually move that point upward. Then the genes for dying earlier would not be passed on, and we could extend life into several centuries. Read: Dawkins' "The Selfish Gene".

the law of entropy says that EVERYTHING will devolve eventually into a state different than that which it is in at the time of observation.

That's irrelevant, since life is an active system that could constantly repair itself.

The war on death is a hardware problem, consider that a computer's software can run for a very long time just as long as the hardware is not rosted or exposed to extreme conditions and so forth, besides life or conciousness is nothing more than than the systemic synchronicity and organization of many parts, keep the parts functioning and they will automatically take care of each other. My suggestion for cryogenics is to freeze the hardware- the torso and legs, keeping only the head(software) at room temperature. The brain won't do a lot of work when the rest of the body is frozen. Maybe in the near future we can perfect brain implants and manufacture body parts complete with serial numbers.

Well you could suggest the first motion picture was caught on cell film, which has a shelf life. The only way to preserve it would be to move it to another film type, then perhaps VHS, then further still to DVD or some future technology.

With each iteration there might be loss, or with each iteration there might be the need for some renovation.

All in all for something to continue that obviously has a shelf life it means to have the ability to convert from one form to another, with an attempt to keep within the conversion as much of what originally was existant.

I suppose I'm saying the human body will die, but we can live on if we just accept a media change.

I suppose I'm saying the human body will die, but we can live on if we just accept a media change.Personally, I don't know that we even need a media change. I think vitrification in cryonics will be workable. Very little damage done to cells in the brain during freezing. Granted, we will need to be able to repair what damage is done at some point in the future, but I think that some technology (nanomachines is one that a lot of people think of) will be available at some point in the future.

Why spend fortunes on trying to prolong our physical existance in it's current form when perhaps a stronger more robust, easier to repair and potentially more useful form (not needing to breath oxygen or eat food) could be our future?

You mean something like what I remember Cris talking about a few months ago, uploading our memories and identities into some kind of neural net and being able to place the neural net into a cybernetic, robot, airplane, car or spaceship body? If so, I'm all for that too. If it's available before I die, which could be any day now. :) I suppose that all of the sensations of life could be recreated so that it feels like you are rolling around in the hay with your lass or enjoying the taste of a fine wine and a good steak?

WAR:

a state of hostility, conflict, or antagonism b : a struggle or competition between opposing forces or for a particular end

That's irrelevant, since life is an active system that could constantly repair itself.

i dont see it as irrelevant. entropy has everything in it's grasp, even life.
life has a shelf life, also. just because we cant measure it, that doesnt mean that it wont all be extinguished eventually.

its a mathematical certainty.

Unless we discover a law that allows entropy to decrease, but so far, the 2nd law of thermodynamics remains unbroken.

Although that is true on some molecular level, it is not true for organisms as a whole. An organism can make error-free copies of cells or genetic material to replace damaged ones. Animals usually don't die of old age, but eventual death from old age is just not affected as much by natural selection, since the animal's genes have already been passed on.

Life by definition is an anti-entropic force.

In the pop-culture view of entropy as 'disorder', perhaps. But from the physical viewpoint, entropy increases in all processes, including life.

Life on earth can only resist entropy because of usable energy coming from the sun and making its way down the food chain. But the amount of usable energy remaining in the sun decreases constantly.

Cryonics.

I know you're all psyched about having your corpse frozen, but that doesn't really solve the problem of death. You're waiting for someone else to solve the problem. If the solution to death is to freeze your dead body, you uh, haven't really got much of a solution.

And what if revival of corpses was very expensive? What insurance do you have that anyone is going to want you back? Who's going to bring back thousands and thousands of bodies centuries or millenia from now?

No, better to look at hooking brains up to computers. Do the whole head in a jar thing, Futurama style.

When and if it's possible to hook my huge brain up to a computer, I'll think about it. Right now, cryonics is the only chance there is.

Just as its possible to store visuals in films its possible to store memories in electronic chips, computers wil even do the trick, then the next step is to clone the human from its DNA, grow the human in artificial wombs, then simply replant the memory into the human at the appropriate age. Not too shabby...this is the only way I can think of to by-pass dying cells

What if you took the growing human body and fed it your memories as it grew up so it thought it was you, but really wasn't?

Man, even though I keep telling myself I'm not a dualist, all this talk of fucking with memories is really creeping me out.

before waging a war on death, I want to first know what is it that defines me and me only.

The war on suffering. Sugestions

The war on suffering. Sugestions

Kill everyone.

suffering is a defining characteristic of life.

The war on suffering. Sugestions

Meat plants and orgasm pills

BTW, I don't think death is a problem. We could increase our problems by eliminating it. Overpopulation is one concern. Ending the natural release from suffering is another.

i agree, spidergoat.
we dont have infinite space to contain immortal populations of breeding animals.

Let's just kill death and get it over with.

How will I be able to grok my friends if they just freeze their bodies?

If im suffering and noone can help me what should I do next.

Accept it or change it.

accept that suffering is a part of life.
case closed.

Lobby for a more equitable redistribution of suffering so that the rich and powerful suffer too.

Why spend fortunes on trying to prolong our physical existance in it's current form when perhaps a stronger more robust, easier to repair and potentially more useful form (not needing to breath oxygen or eat food) could be our future?What will it come down too? Instead you will break down mentally, and not be able to do anything, being in anxiety for the rest of eternity, you should respect the way things are. It never ends you know.

Aggressive supplementation of vitamins and nutrients, a healthy diet, and regular physical checkups.

If you are under 40, that should get you to the next round of medical breakthroughs that will suspend death greatly.

fiiiiiiiiggggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhtttttttttttttttttt

Before waging a war on death, I want understand what defines me as me. Can death perhaps be a new beginning of another life, as another book that I open.

Maybe everyone could take a guess as to how long in the future it will take for death to be killed. For people to never die. For immortality. Never could be your answer. I say within 30 years if the world got together on its own accord. But is it actually possible at all. Im told that physics says that its impossible. Should everyone give up hope? Its impossible for me to come up with an argument that eternal life is possible using physics. Surely. So thats it. I lose. Physics says eternal life is impossible and thats that. This is the absolute truth. Lets permanently divert our attention to other things. It is heresy and delusional to think eternal life is possible and that physics will even say eternal life is possible. Physics will always say eternal life is impossible and physics will never say that eternal life is possible. These are the physics. Accept physics. God damn accept them before I break your god damn legs and god damn everything god damn it. Got it!

"I bow before thee O great physics"(which I actually "believe" will say eternal life is possible)(but others are more stupid) (real stupid)(real real stupid)(tis lucky these brackets stop them reading me calling them stupid and saying physics will totally say eternal life is possible)(theyd soon have me killed) "I bow before thee O great Physics" (for they shall surely read one day "eternal life is possible") "I bow before thee O great physics" (and come ready to accept the insults, punishments and beatings that others will bestow upon me for telling of the true you should I choose this path). I repent and change my answer to never for I see now this is the truth.(not). I accept current physics. (not).

Hhhhhhhhmmmmmmmmmmmmmmn

Physics? More like biochem if you ask me. Nonetheless eternal life is possible but not really my cup of tea, unless I am able to spend some of my life traveling to other planets. I like earth but not so keen on the society we humans have created; let me just put it this way with a quote from my favorite comedian.

"I am an outsider by choice, it is the disgust of the system that keeps me out"-G. Carlin

So long as there is time all beginnings will have ends.

I'm a soldier

I'm a soldier

I'm a civilian

Rationality confirms immortality.

Miracuosly curing strangers, a very important immortal said, "seek and you shall find. . . . Knock and it shall be opened to you.". He repeatedly proclaimed the need for faith. This crosses where mortals fall while others passover.

Do you guys know what the "Grim reaper" gene(don't know the scientific name)is. it's what controlles our aging process. scientists have predicted that we will live to about 380 years before we die if we can turn it off... i don't know if that is a good thing but what ever... they have already tested it on rats (which share this gene with us)
Thomas

What possibly can an ordinary individual person do in the war death? I command you to do stuff. Those who want to do stuff.

I really dont know what I do? Aha. Something.

Death Is Perpetual Development

People, dying, for no reason at all,
Age is no difference or if you're large or small
Families, been torn apart,
Doesn't have to be this way,
Some people, just have no heart,
It's happening every day,

Pure massacre,
Pure massacre...
Pure massacre,
Pure massacre. :eek:

Why should anyone be hostile against something as natural as death is?
Without death there would be no life and no evolution.
As Indiana Jone's father said: "Let it go!"

A deathless world is a world of stagnation.

Besides at death nothing happens, atoms and energy just rearranges itself into new forms and stuff. It's a wonderful thing.

Love?

Sure, I love the universe. What does that have to do with death?

We die because our cells are programmed to die. Our bodies are also extremely fragile. Some scientists suspect that the Methuselah tree (http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/methuselah/) is one of the few life forms on earth that does not age. Perhaps we will be able to genetically engineer humans that don’t age in the near future. Click on the link below if you are interested in immortality.

http://www.imminst.org

I lose?

Why should anyone be hostile against something as natural as death is?
Without death there would be no life and no evolution.
As Indiana Jone's father said: "Let it go!"

A deathless world is a world of stagnation.

Besides at death nothing happens, atoms and energy just rearranges itself into new forms and stuff. It's a wonderful thing.

I disagree with most of what you wrote. Evolution can continue without death because life and death are just illusions. I don’t think there is any real difference between an inanimate object and a human being. Everything is programmed to do something. I believe that what we perceive as life is nothing more than chemical reactions. I don’t see any reason why we can’t create a life form that can live until the end of this universe. (I am assuming that there will be another big bang that starts another cycle of time)

Our society would have to make some drastic changes if we want to become immortal. There is a limited amount of space on this planet and we are living in an overpopulated world despite all of the deaths that occur everyday. Creating a life in the future would have to become a privilege rather than a right. Abortions would have to become culturally acceptable worldwide. Unwanted pregnancies would have to become a thing of the past. Some of these things can be accomplished by genetically engineering females that can only be impregnated when they want to be.

There are so many other changes that our societies would have to make. Imagine what it would be like to live in a world where people had the ability to transfer their memories to another body. Getting a new body could be no different than buying a new car. Some of these things may sound impossible to you, but I think it could be a reality in the near future. (100 – 200 years) Things like nanotechnology, artificial intelligence, and genetic engineering could create a world that is very different than the world that we exist in today.

Evolution can continue without death because life and death are just illusions. I don’t think there is any real difference between an inanimate object and a human being.
Depends at what scale you are looking at what we call human.
Evolution needs death for the species to change and adopt to new environments and environmental conditions.
And you are wrong, there is difference. The difference is in the complexity at the atomic level. Compare an ant and a crystal under a powerful microscope.
life and death are just illusions.
As is time.
I don’t see any reason why we can’t create a life form that can live until the end of this universe.
Maybe we could, but there's no point in that.
Our society would have to make some drastic changes if we want to become immortal.
Good, you become, I don't want to. It's just stopping the natural order of things and you become a cancer to your environment.
could create a world that is very different than the world that we exist in today.
It's fine as it is, I like it. Of course technology will change, but it won't change such things as friendship, kinship, pride, sorrow, etc., so I don't see what's the big deal about immortality.
The only thing it would achieve is the prolongation of your ego system, which could easily backfire on the whole environment.

Love?

Depends at what scale you are looking at what we call human.
Evolution needs death for the species to change and adopt to new environments and environmental conditions.
And you are wrong, there is difference. The difference is in the complexity at the atomic level. Compare an ant and a crystal under a powerful microscope.

Complexity at the atomic level or the molecular level. Atoms are atoms. It doesn’t matter if some carbon atoms are in a pencil or in a human. The chemical reactions within us is the thing that makes the difference.

Good, you become, I don't want to. It's just stopping the natural order of things and you become a cancer to your environment.

It's fine as it is, I like it. Of course technology will change, but it won't change such things as friendship, kinship, pride, sorrow, etc., so I don't see what's the big deal about immortality.
The only thing it would achieve is the prolongation of your ego system, which could easily backfire on the whole environment.

I am interested in immortality because I am not happy with the current state of humanity. I have no way of knowing if things will be better in the future, but I believe that our technology could make the world a better place for me. I feel like a carbon based life form that is living in the wrong place at the wrong time. I want to live to see the things that could make me happy. (Virtual reality, memory transferals, genetically engineered bodies)

You can say that creating immortal human beings would mess up the natural order of things, but I disagree with your subjective opinion of what is and isn’t natural. Human beings have the potential to evolve into gods. Why should we continue to live like primitive apes? Why should we continue to live with the pain and misery that we experience when we age?

Complexity at the atomic level or the molecular level. Atoms are atoms. It doesn’t matter if some carbon atoms are in a pencil or in a human.
Sorry, English is not my native language, I ment a level on which multiple atoms can be observed in their position relative to others, so yes, that would probably be called molecular. And that complexity is there from the 1:1 to molecular.
I believe that our technology could make the world a better place for me.
Heh, there's an old saying, but it applies to this too: "There is no white magic or black magic, it depends on how you use it." Technology without application is nothing. If stupid persons will apply it, you'll get a pretty screwed up place.

Human beings have the potential to evolve into gods.
And what is a god? It's fantasy. How can you evolve into fantasy?
Furthermore, evolution doesn't mean improvement to some standart, it just means a better adoptation to the environment.
Why should we continue to live like primitive apes?
:) If you lead a primitive life, then it's your problem.
Why should we continue live with the pain and misery that we experience when we age?
You don't have to, it's just a matter of perspective on things - life, the universe and everything.
It's a purely psychological problem and the solutions have been around for thousands of years.
I suggest you read, for example, the Upanishads.

And what is a god? It's fantasy. How can you evolve into fantasy?Furthermore, evolution doesn't mean improvement to some standart, it just means a better adoptation to the environment.

I’m not talking about the god or gods that are in religious books. I am talking about evolving into a life form has more control of the space in which it exist. (The atoms and molecules that around us and within us) I don’t think this definition of god is a fantasy. It doesn’t exist at the moment, but it is a plausible prediction of the future.

If you lead a primitive life, then it's your problem.

I think all humans are primitive because we are slaves to our emotions. Human beings are illogical self-destructive creatures, but we have the potential to evolve into better humans.

http://www.usatoday.com/tech/science/discoveries/2006-08-06-brain-study_x.htm

You don't have to, it's just a matter of perspective on things - life, the universe and everything.
It's a purely psychological problem and the solutions have been around for thousands of years.
I suggest you read, for example, the Upanishads.

Having a positive attitude can reduce the pain and misery in a person's life, but psychology can’t cure age related illnesses.

It doesn’t exist at the moment, but it is a plausible prediction of the future.
Almost everything is plausible in an eternal universe.
I think all humans are primitive because we are slaves to our emotions.
Again - a psychological problem. Technology won't cure that.
By the way, imo, it's nicer to have emotions than not. If everyone acted only rationally, this would be a boring place to be.
It's nice and enjoyable to be happy and buy a bunch of flowers to give them away to people even if you think it's not rational.
Psychology can’t cure age related illnesses.
No, but it can change how you view those illnesses. There are plenty of happy old people.

Anyway, to finish this discussion on my part:
1. I see no problem in mortality. I support it.
2. I see no problems with this universe and the natural order. It's more rational to strive for harmony with nature than try to overrule nature.
3. Human psychology has place for improvement, but it's mainly a social problem, because many individuals have become improved. Religious folk call them enlightened.

You could make a law allowing people to reproduce only after a certain age, and then gradually move that point upward. Then the genes for dying earlier would not be passed on, and we could extend life into several centuries. Read: Dawkins' "The Selfish Gene".
I read about that being done with flies

Also just google the Mary Ann Liebert journals. They have a lot about genetics in them, but you have to subscribe.

Stumble, Stumble, "Crawl"....

Here is my immortality website.


Immortality (http://www.angelfire.com/planet/warondeath)


Ya know one day.

Who donated $128?...idiots.

hahahaaha

I bet you say that to all who suffer.


When your suffering life is a different story?

Theres 6 billion different people. Does that equal unlimited power? Err what does it equal for you. That figure again 6 billion. Nothing we cant do(stop). 6 billion ya know. Heh 6 billion. Nothing that wont be done? (6 billion).

Natural order be done.

6 billion

The link below will take you straight to the main page of the immortality institutes forum. Its a pure immortality forum thats reasonably big and very active.


Pure Immortality Forum (http://www.imminst.org/forum/)


You can subscribe to their newsletter at the bottom of the page.

Undercover

Machine guns pumping,
Hearts thumping,
Death is all around, yeah,
People crying for freedom,
No one hears the sound, ohhh,

Pure massacre,
Pure massacre...
Pure massacre,
Pure massacre...alright,

rationality confirms death forever?

www.GameNZ.co.nz

Rationality confirms immortality.

Irrationality confirms mortality. This irrational world.

Guess all 6 Billion people who are alive at the moment will be dead in 200 years. Thats quite a number of people ya know when you think about it. Its really hard to say if immortality will ever be achieved.

My life consisted of really good times for 20 years then followed by intense suffering so as to forget those 20 years. The worlds a real bum place for some people. Who has the power?

If death has been going on for millions of years then it must be getting closer to dying itself.

Can anyone comprehend the suffering that has taken place over the last few hundred million years? What does all that suffering equate to. If we make our own way in life, if we are the product of randomness, and suffering has the power to take some, then it is war.

Sugestions?

Who wants to live forever?

The obvious solution is religion. You only lose your body, but your spirit lives forever...Or you even get a young body, if you pick your religion carefully....

Who wants to live forever?

The obvious solution is religion. You only lose your body, but your spirit lives forever...Or you even get a young body, if you pick your religion carefully....

religion without God.

Who wants to live forever? Me. The obvious solution is religion. You only lose your body, but your spirit lives forever...Or you even get a young body, if you pick your religion carefully....
Except religion isn't a real solution, because it's all bullshit.

Link to the largest cryonics facility in the world. Cryonics doesn't really interest me myself.

www.alcor.org

I'd live forever if I could.