View Full Version : The Swastika: A Symbol of Goodness or Hate?


lightgigantic
02-16-09, 07:59 PM
interesting article
(http://news.iskcon.com/node/1632/2009-01-10/swastika_symbol_goodness_or_hate)
seriously, it borders on madness


It certainly doesn’t seem like something that will happen any time soon. When Israeli-American researcher Avrahaum Segol was playing around with Google Earth’s online satellite imaging tools in March 2008, he noticed that the Wesley Acres Methodist retirement home in Alabama looked like a swastika from the air and immediately went up in arms. Although the old-folks’ home had already spent $1 million on a design modification after complaints from a US senator, that obviously wasn’t enough – now it’ll be forced to fork up more cash and make a second attempt to disguise its shape.

It seems Mr. Segol spends a lot of time on Google Earth, because he’s the same guy who back in 2007 pointed out that a US Naval Base in San Diego, California also looks like a swastika from the air. He called the Alabama retirement home its “sister swastika,” and said that they were both part of a tangled, government-funded conspiracy to honor Nazis.

http://news.iskcon.com/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=2903&g2_serialNumber=1

John Mock, the architect who designed the buildings back in the 1960s, called the allegations ridiculous. “There was no malicious intent,” he told CNN in 2007. “It’s four L-shaped buildings – and whether you look from the ground or the air, it still is.”

But that didn’t stop the Navy from spending about $600,000 to alter the building. When asked about the decision, Morris Casuto, the Anti-Defamation League's Regional Director in San Diego, said, “It doesn’t make any sense that a building on government property would be built in the shape of one of the most hated symbols in human history.”



Wow. Okay, while that’s harsh, maybe it’s to be expected that the government wouldn’t want such public buildings to have any chance of being associated with the Nazis. But surely everyone knows that the swastika is a sacred symbol in India, and that a Hindu’s use of it is religious and perfectly innocent, right?

Wrong.

In November 1998 Devinder Paul Kaushal, a devout Hindu from New Delhi, found his employment of over twelve years at Chicago’s Hyatt Regency hotel terminated after he used window cleaner to spray a swastika on a mirror he was cleaning. The image was immediately wiped away, but Kaushal's co-workers were taken aback, and complained. Kaushal made efforts to explain to his seniors that in his religion the swastika is a prevalent image associated with auspiciousness. But they were not convinced. He was asked to resign, and when he didn’t, was fired days later.

Speaking to Hinduism today, Kaushal said he had no knowledge of how deep the revulsion for the swastika runs in the West: “I did not mean to offend anybody. Now that I have learned more about it, I do feel sorry for the holocaust victims. But people should also be aware that this is our religious symbol. We Hindus have been using it long before anybody else. It is very hard for me to get this through to the public.”

Kaushal attempted to sue the hotel giant for religious discrimination, seeking reinstatement, back pay and damages. But amazingly, he failed. An Illinois federal court found that he did not have a right to display a swastika as an accommodation for his religious practices, stating, “The swastika is so offensive to so many people that its public display…with the sanction of management is unthinkable.”

:eek::eek:

Fraggle Rocker
02-16-09, 10:00 PM
Archeological evidence of the swastika goes back 7,000 years. It's a natural geometrical form that can't help arising among a people who develop the technology of weaving. It is a sacred symbol for Hindus, Buddhists, Jains and Mithraists: one billion people.

It's a shame that Hitler got hold of it, but he was only one of many.

It can go in either direction. I wonder how many "left-handed" swastikas go unreported because nobody's looking for them. It is bound to pop up in architecture and other engineering disciplines. I'm sure you can find it on circuit boards.

Hitler insulted all of the religions that use the swastika as a sacred symbol, but he was an asshole so his insults are no surprise.

The people who want to outlaw all use of the swastika are also insulting all of those religions. What's their excuse?

Betrayer0fHope
02-16-09, 10:38 PM
When I first saw the swastika in my own home, I was taken aback. Funny huh? But I strongly support Kaushal's case, and it is a tragedy that he failed.

nietzschefan
02-17-09, 12:14 AM
Just a symbol.

People have the feelings of Love, hate or "Good luck" and attribute it to the symbol.

This symbol doesn't give a shit if you like it or not.

Michael
02-17-09, 01:34 AM
When I'm using GPS in Japan little Swastika's mark the positions of Buddhists Temples on the map... not to mention they are all over the Buddhist Temples. I think people need to get a life and get over it.

S.A.M.
02-17-09, 05:48 AM
I think Indians should start using swastikas as much as possible. I'll put some on my bags, get some jewelry etc.

Hindu homes have swastikas as ornament, adornment or design, in some way or the other.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2168/2246927848_0be6eeb368.jpg

http://www.theage.com.au/ffximage/2007/09/25/swastika_lead_wideweb__470x289,0.jpg

http://www.stuff.co.nz/images/723187.jpg

John99
02-17-09, 05:55 AM
why do Indians burn popcorn? Has anyone seen this done?

the only thing i can find remotely related to this custom is here:

http://books.google.com/books?id=ZmWLsI7gbI0C&pg=PA295&lpg=PA295&dq=burning+popcorn+hindu&source=bl&ots=LEB78DJn6M&sig=B3jzAXA6LLtrBkKEnfnaJao-7Ao&hl=en&ei=GKuaSZvPI4G4twekk5mcCw&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=10&ct=result

perhaps this:

Makar Sankranti
Bhogali Bihu in Assam

yep, found the info:

puffed rice and popcorn into the flames, while singing popular folk songs and exchanging greetings. ...
:)

Read-Only
02-17-09, 05:59 AM
This Siegel idiot is just that - an idiot. (Strongly reminds me of a few posters we have/had around this place.)

S.A.M.
02-17-09, 06:00 AM
Why is Segol searching for swastikas from space? Maybe he needs something better to do with his time.

Read-Only
02-17-09, 06:08 AM
Why is Segol searching for swastikas from space? Maybe he needs something better to do with his time.

Exactly. (But that's the kind of thing idiots do.):shrug:

cosmictraveler
02-17-09, 07:08 AM
Anything to stir the pot.:shrug:

John99
02-17-09, 07:08 AM
:shrug:

cosmictraveler
02-17-09, 07:14 AM
:shrug:


why is segol searching for swastikas from space? Maybe he needs something better to do with his time.

:) ;)

Captain Kremmen
02-17-09, 07:35 AM
It just means lucky.
Thank goodness Hitler did not choose the Shamrock as his symbol.
Bang goes the St Patrick's day Booze-up.


I'm glad that in India, they are still using it.

leopold
02-17-09, 08:48 AM
John Mock, the architect who designed the buildings back in the 1960s, called the allegations ridiculous. “There was no malicious intent,” he told CNN in 2007. “It’s four L-shaped buildings – and whether you look from the ground or the air, it still is.”

john mock knew exactly what his building would look like from the air, so did the people that built the building.

the swastika itself holds no special meaning.
what killed the swastika was hitler and his infamy.

Orleander
02-17-09, 11:48 AM
well, when I see it I don't think happy thoughts. I don't know anyone who does either (except people here) Where I used to work a girl got fired for drawing swatikas on her shoes and refusing to change them.

Vkothii
02-17-09, 12:04 PM
The inanity of a design seen from space that upsets someone having to be "fixed" so everybody's happy underlines the childishness and insecurity of certain people (in a little country we all know about).

Would Israel demand the same thing if someone found a natural formation that looked like a swastika, you could find in Google? What if an astronomer found something like the "face" on Mars that resembled one? Or a swastika nebula? Would this idiot get all upset and demand that something is done about it?

S.A.M.
02-17-09, 12:20 PM
well, when I see it I don't think happy thoughts. I don't know anyone who does either (except people here) Where I used to work a girl got fired for drawing swatikas on her shoes and refusing to change them.

How stupid. I hope she wasn't Indian.

GeoffP
02-17-09, 12:30 PM
Dubious.

S.A.M.
02-17-09, 12:48 PM
Swastikas remind me of home. I read recently that some native American tribes had it as a religious symbol. Thats incredibly awesome to me.

I found this excellent site on reclaiming the swastika:
http://reclaimtheswastika.com/photos/

Jackie Kennedy in a Navajo costume

http://chrisqq.files.wordpress.com/2008/02/jackie.jpg

spidergoat
02-17-09, 12:49 PM
Clockwise good, counterclockwise bad.

S.A.M.
02-17-09, 12:51 PM
Thats a myth.

One is female energy, one is male. I forget which is which.

edit:


Swastika, this widespread symbol is particularly revered by the Jains, the Buddhists and followers of Vishnu. It is essentially a cross spinning at its centre, with the angles at the end of each arm representing light streaming as the cross turns. Spinning clockwise, it symbolizes male energy; anticlockwise, female. In Jainism, the four arms represent the four levels of existence. The anticlockwise form has been debased into a symbol of black magic and negative energies.

http://74.125.47.132/search?q=cache:X6ZIQSPY3CsJ:malkan.com/edufiles/swastika.pdf+Swastika+male+female+left+right&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=us&client=firefox-a

I see that there are distinct anti-women arguments here.

Vkothii
02-17-09, 01:44 PM
Hitler adopted a symbol of peace and happiness, an Asian religious-spiritual emblem, in a clear case of inversion of meaning.

Like the "Arbeit Mach Frei" signs on the concentration camp entrances for Jewish prisoners. Fascism is quite accomplished at inverting meanings (so it can claim it still means what it did originally when it doesn't).

"Shit happens"... then some poor schmuck gets to clean it up.

Michael
02-17-09, 04:53 PM
If it's in Native American cultures then one would think it's somehow biological? As if we are prone to drawing this symbol. If so, then perhaps Hitler was more clever than we think. This symbol my have struck a deeper psychological cord with people then we'd first assume and attaching this to an agenda is very manipulative.

I think the same is true of the cross symbol and of course the moon.

lightgigantic
02-17-09, 04:58 PM
If it's in Native American cultures then one would think it's somehow biological?

or alternatively, a cultural trope picked up from india (as some anthropologists argue)


As if we are prone to drawing this symbol. If so, then perhaps Hitler was more clever than we think. This symbol my have struck a deeper psychological cord with people then we'd first assume and attaching this to an agenda is very manipulative.
Hitler directly borrowed the idea from the vedas. IN fact pre-WW2 germany had one of the most developed sanskrit departments in the west (Hitler also borrowed other words from vedic culture like "aryan" .... after applying his own unique flavor to it of course)

S.A.M.
02-17-09, 05:15 PM
Yup thats right. The original Aryans are the Persians. That's where Iran comes from.

Betrayer0fHope
02-17-09, 05:45 PM
People have called me a True Aryan before and gotten into huge trouble for it.

S.A.M.
02-17-09, 05:55 PM
That's what the Brahmins consider themselves. Are you so illiterate in Indian history?

nietzschefan
02-17-09, 06:07 PM
Swastikas remind me of home. I read recently that some native American tribes had it as a religious symbol. Thats incredibly awesome to me.

I found this excellent site on reclaiming the swastika:
http://reclaimtheswastika.com/photos/

Jackie Kennedy in a Navajo costume

http://chrisqq.files.wordpress.com/2008/02/jackie.jpg

The symbol actually predates ALL civilization, it is a complete enigma and one reason it was chosen by Hitler, an occultist.

I do agree with you. Hindu should really shove this symbol in everyone's face, i'm so sick of people pissing and moaning about a symbol. FUCK THEM.

nietzschefan
02-17-09, 06:09 PM
Clockwise good, counterclockwise bad.

NO NOT BAD. Highjacking a 10000 year old symbol for 20 odd years, does not make it bad!

lightgigantic
02-17-09, 06:13 PM
"Aryan" is something similar to "gentleman" (or a civilized person)

IOW it is a name that is characterized by quality (guna) and activity (karma).... as opposed to birth (janma).

One could find that the chances of being an aryan is greatly increased if one's parents are aryan, much like one could find that one's chances of getting into the legal profession is increased if one's parents are a high court judge ..... but this is hardly sufficient. IOW the position is ultimately determined by quality and action and not birth.

Unfortunately, the caste system has adopted a system based purely on birth, as opposed to quality. This is despite a complete absence of any scriptural reference to occupation in life (varna) being determined by birth (janma), but numerous references to guna and karma

eg

BG 4,13 According to the three modes of material nature and the work associated with them, the four divisions of human society are created by Me.

(guna(quality) -karma(work)-vibhägasah (division) ..... not janma vibhagasah)

Anyway, it's all part of the flavour of the age

SB 12.2(Symptoms of the age of Kali).3: Men and women will live together merely because of superficial attraction, and success in business will depend on deceit. Womanliness and manliness will be judged according to one's expertise in sex, and a man will be known as a brāhmaṇa just by his wearing a thread.

John99
02-17-09, 06:13 PM
NO NOT BAD. Highjacking a 10000 year old symbol for 20 odd years, does not make it bad!

that is the "symbols" meaning. of course we need symbols, for some strange purpose.

S.A.M.
02-17-09, 06:19 PM
@LG

Parts of the Srmad Bhagvatam are downright scary in their accuracy

spidergoat
02-17-09, 06:23 PM
NO NOT BAD. Highjacking a 10000 year old symbol for 20 odd years, does not make it bad!

Sorry, it does. At least respect the enemies of fascism and not use it. I agree it's extreme to change this building, the design of which can't be easily seen from the ground. It's like those few people who still insist on using the word "gay" to mean happy. Times change.

lightgigantic
02-17-09, 06:26 PM
@LG

Parts of the Srmad Bhagvatam are downright scary in their accuracy

unfortunately (http://vedabase.net/sb/12/2/en), yes

lightgigantic
02-17-09, 06:31 PM
Sorry, it does. At least respect the enemies of fascism and not use it. I agree it's extreme to change this building, the design of which can't be easily seen from the ground. It's like those few people who still insist on using the word "gay" to mean happy. Times change.

from the article referenced in the OP

“Just because Hitler misused the symbol, abused it and used it to propagate a reign of terror and racism and discrimination, it does not mean that its peaceful use should be banned. That would be equivalent to banning the cross simply because the Klu Klux Klan has used burning crosses.”
- Ramesh Kallidai of a hindu union to oppose the banning of the swastika in europe in 2007

spidergoat
02-17-09, 06:33 PM
I agree that banning is also extreme. Anyone with a minimum of tact should be sensitive about it's use.

S.A.M.
02-17-09, 06:37 PM
It's customary to put the swastika outside the house as a sign of protection. It's stupid to ask other people to be sensitive for something that didn't even happen to you.

John99
02-17-09, 06:42 PM
I agree that banning is also extreme. Anyone with a minimum of tact should be sensitive about it's use.

I guess you know that in U.S it is still used by Hindu people. I would say are the only ones who used it prior to Nazi's with regularity anyway or at least where it had any real meaning.

lightgigantic
02-17-09, 06:45 PM
I guess you know that in U.S it is still used by Hindu people. I would say are the only ones who used it prior to Nazi's with regularity anyway or at least where it had any real meaning.

http://news.iskcon.com/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=2920&g2_serialNumber=1
native american basketball team 1909

John99
02-17-09, 07:23 PM
I have seen that picture but my understanding is the symbol is just for decoration and has no real meaning as far as they could have easily replaced that with anything. It has Indian (Eastern) origins and they still use it without the negative connotation the Nazis gave it.

But even in that case it is not a religious symbol to Indians and is kind of like many other celebratory customs. We still see it used today at Indian wedding ceremonies but like i said i am not aware of any religious meaning associated with it.

I am sure you know more about this than i do though and i can be wrong.

nietzschefan
02-17-09, 09:35 PM
Sorry, it does. At least respect the enemies of fascism and not use it. I agree it's extreme to change this building, the design of which can't be easily seen from the ground. It's like those few people who still insist on using the word "gay" to mean happy. Times change.

Look, put a white circle around it, rotate it 45 degrees and put all that in a red box, and ya that's bad esp if you are the prince and wear it on your arm.

Drawing it the way your religion has for 1000s of years...well the Jews(and whomever else) can just fuckin deal with it. They are doomed if pain can be contrived from that. And pussies.

Orleander
02-18-09, 07:56 AM
How stupid. I hope she wasn't Indian.

No she wasn't. But I don't think that would have made a difference. How does being an Indian make it ok?
It wasn't meant religously. It was meant to get a reaction and she got one. Her co-workers complained and out the door she went.

S.A.M.
02-18-09, 08:05 AM
No she wasn't. But I don't think that would have made a difference. How does being an Indian make it ok?
It wasn't meant religously. It was meant to get a reaction and she got one. Her co-workers complained and out the door she went.

What if she drew a cross on her sneakers? Would she go out then? How about a star of david?

Orleander
02-18-09, 08:12 AM
What if she drew a cross on her sneakers? Would she go out then? How about a star of david?

I don't know. That's not what happened.

rcscwc
03-24-09, 03:24 AM
I think Indians should start using swastikas as much as possible. I'll put some on my bags, get some jewelry etc.

Hindu homes have swastikas as ornament, adornment or design, in some way or the other.




They do use it.

Altars have a swastika as an integral part. Altar will not be an altar without it.

Swastika is printed on the invitation cards.

Home portals have swastika.

Swatika on a new car is common.

Account books and religious books have swastika on the front page.

Swastika lockets, pendants etc are common.

It must be easily the most printed symbol in the world.

rcscwc
03-24-09, 03:26 AM
The inanity of a design seen from space that upsets someone having to be "fixed" so everybody's happy underlines the childishness and insecurity of certain people (in a little country we all know about).

Would Israel demand the same thing if someone found a natural formation that looked like a swastika, you could find in Google? What if an astronomer found something like the "face" on Mars that resembled one? Or a swastika nebula? Would this idiot get all upset and demand that something is done about it?

Good that those asinine ones do not have an angst with OM too. There is a mountain top in the shape of an OM.

See it here.
http://rcscwc.spaces.live.com/default.aspx?_c01_BlogPart=blogentry&_c=BlogPart&handle=cns!CCF565E9EB04C861!266

rcscwc
03-24-09, 03:36 AM
But even in that case it is not a religious symbol to Indians and is kind of like many other celebratory customs. We still see it used today at Indian wedding ceremonies but like i said i am not aware of any religious meaning associated with it.

I am sure you know more about this than i do though and i can be wrong.

To Hindus, it is very much religious, symbol of Ganesha. It is even called Ganeshjee.

It is integral to Hinduism.

rcscwc
03-24-09, 03:39 AM
Hitler directly borrowed the idea from the vedas. IN fact pre-WW2 germany had one of the most developed sanskrit departments in the west (Hitler also borrowed other words from vedic culture like "aryan" .... after applying his own unique flavor to it of course)

It is post Vedic, but still so ancient that origin is not known.

John99
03-24-09, 04:13 AM
To Hindus, it is very much religious, symbol of Ganesha. It is even called Ganeshjee.

It is integral to Hinduism.

no, it is just a decorative symbol.

John99
03-24-09, 05:21 AM
t was chosen by Hitler, an occultist.


that would be correct. hitler was an occultist.

Betrayer0fHope
03-25-09, 10:39 AM
john mock knew exactly what his building would look like from the air, so did the people that built the building.

the swastika itself holds no special meaning.
what killed the swastika was hitler and his infamy.

Swastika holds no special meaning now, does it?

Jozen-Bo
03-25-09, 10:57 AM
Swastikas are not evil, nor do they posses an inherent evilness to them. Hitler didn't make them up, he borrowed them and redefined the meaning of them as his mind saw. I will not hesitate to make use of this symbol when considering the thousands of others to choose from, because symbols are not evil or good. It does not represent anything Nazi in my mind, instead having a different meaning that is contained within the count and angles and intersections of the lines and their qualities.


In that Red does not effect everyone exactly the same, there tends to be universal reactions to seeing it. This also applies to form, and symbols. Is Red Evil? What colors did the Nazis use? Maybe that Army Gray-Green is really evil? Or maybe it will bring evil back? Nonsense!

Symbols, like colors and numbers, are not evil.

Betrayer0fHope
03-25-09, 10:59 AM
That's what the Brahmins consider themselves. Are you so illiterate in Indian history?

I;m saying they shouldn't have gotten in trouble.

rcscwc
03-28-09, 08:48 AM
no, it is just a decorative symbol.

Being a Hindu, I happen to know better the importance of swastika. Period.


Originally Posted by leopold99
john mock knew exactly what his building would look like from the air, so did the people that built the building.

the swastika itself holds no special meaning.
what killed the swastika was hitler and his infamy.

It holds no meaning for the westerners. But it has meaning for eastreners. In west it might have "died", but in east it is alive.

Algernon
03-28-09, 12:18 PM
If I am not mistaken... the Hindu version is oriented the opposite direction. I'll look it up.

Algernon
03-28-09, 12:20 PM
I know yahoo answers may not be the most credible, but it is a cultural reference so see what you guys can get from this link:

http://in.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080105072807AAx47er

Fraggle Rocker
03-28-09, 08:58 PM
I know yahoo answers may not be the most credible, but it is a cultural reference so see what you guys can get from this link:Since we have two Indians posting here, one of whom is Hindu, I don't think we have to search very far for explanations of the symbology.

AnthonyN
03-29-09, 05:08 PM
As far as I know, the swastika was originally a symbol representing the Sun, in Eastern religions. But then the Nazis used it representing them, because they believed that they were superior, thus the Sun.

Spectrum
03-30-09, 12:22 PM
A truth table for 0 AND 1 produces this...

x=AND

011100
0x10x1
100011
110001
1x01x0
001110

:)

Diode-Man
03-30-09, 10:29 PM
I think its original form was merely a symbol of power/energy. But it is now, a disgusting appearance.

rcscwc
09-15-10, 11:28 PM
The inanity of a design seen from space that upsets someone having to be "fixed" so everybody's happy underlines the childishness and insecurity of certain people (in a little country we all know about).

Would Israel demand the same thing if someone found a natural formation that looked like a swastika, you could find in Google? What if an astronomer found something like the "face" on Mars that resembled one? Or a swastika nebula? Would this idiot get all upset and demand that something is done about it?
On a group I had a Mars freak, believing life exists on Mars. He was posting pictures from Mars lander. On one such image I found a swastika and went to town, : Haha. Life is there of course. And Hindus beat all to Mars. See the SWASTIKA!!

GeoffP
09-16-10, 08:01 AM
Wrong.

http://www.ironsky.net/

;)

Cowboy
09-16-10, 11:18 AM
The problem with symbols is that they mean different things to different people. To many, the swastika is a symbol of hatred. To many others, it means the exact opposite.

That being said; even if I was a Hindu I would still refrain from putting swastikas on my stuff that was easily visible to others because I know that most people would take it the wrong way. To be honest, I don't know how many people realize that the swastika was around long before Hitler and the Nazis.

John99
09-16-10, 02:38 PM
The problem with symbols is that they mean different things to different people. To many, the swastika is a symbol of hatred. To many others, it means the exact opposite.



I depends on the context and other details easily determined. An example is in an Indian restaurant or at some ceremonies etc., plus there are visual differences.


That being said; even if I was a Hindu I would still refrain from putting swastikas on my stuff that was easily visible to others because I know that most people would take it the wrong way. To be honest, I don't know how many people realize that the swastika was around long before Hitler and the Nazis.

In that context It isnt even acknowledged that it is a nazi symbol.

Remember, the nazi's really didnt have any meaning for the symbol itself. Some armies use a star or a red circle in the same way.

rcscwc
09-17-10, 07:33 PM
The problem with symbols is that they mean different things to different people. To many, the swastika is a symbol of hatred. To many others, it means the exact opposite.

That being said; even if I was a Hindu I would still refrain from putting swastikas on my stuff that was easily visible to others because I know that most people would take it the wrong way. To be honest, I don't know how many people realize that the swastika was around long before Hitler and the Nazis.


What does a knife mean? Hatred or compassion?

It is not the knife that by itself is good or bad, it the is intention of the user.

nietzschefan
09-17-10, 11:58 PM
If I was Hindu, I'd tattoo that fuckin symbol right on my forehead.

People need to get over themselves and move on.

rcscwc
09-21-10, 07:58 PM
If I was Hindu, I'd tattoo that fuckin symbol right on my forehead.

People need to get over themselves and move on.

Yeah, so move on. Don't keep on hit by the nazi redux. Look beyond Hitler too. Move on.

chaos1956
09-21-10, 10:02 PM
It really is a terrible thing the Nazis did to the Swastika. Damn you Savitri Devi for proclaiming hitler the Vishnu of a new era. She concluded the ancient greeks were Aryan in origin, (which ok sure people branched off throughout history. that doesn't really give anyone a complete entitlement to an "idea") Basically we all come from the same place. Which is your mothers V. finally the Hindu caste system apparently does not work well with socialism, (probably what drove Neitzsche's insanity and factored in his liking for Buddah over Vishnu who is a destroyer as well as a creator). Great... you kill a couple hundred thousand Jews and you can turn a perfectly nice symbol into something of pure evil. It is exactly what happens when you admit the Ubermensche philosophy into a single person who completely understands the effects of a Stanley Milgram experiment. "I give the orders and the mindless zombie obeys."

"To say someone else is not a person is to admit that they should feel the same for you"-me

The Swastika is a symbol of goodness only when seen in the correct light. contrary to popular belief the correct light is not on the forehead of people in "correctional" facilities...

nietzschefan
09-21-10, 10:20 PM
Agree with the sentiment but most of what you said was wrong.

chaos1956
09-22-10, 12:09 AM
what did I say that was wrong? I only attempted to express that someone's (or a group's rather) genealogical morals went a little too far beyond good and evil and ruined a good amount of historical symbolism for todays society.

Any person who begins a race war is almost certain to find himself a part of the minority. Im sure Charles Manson would agree.

rcscwc
09-22-10, 12:50 AM
If I was Hindu, I'd tattoo that fuckin symbol right on my forehead.

People need to get over themselves and move on.

What a f**** idea!! As if Hindus have tattoos on their foreheads.

ScaryMonster
09-23-10, 12:44 AM
http://i.ytimg.com/vi/eWkls1v6vJE/0.jpg


The US Navy will be spending about $600,000 to redesign or camouflage a 1960s barracks building in San Diego because of complaints that it looks like a swastika when viewed from the air. In the past this might have been a problem only for the occasional air traveler who happened over Coronado island, but with the advent of aerial mapping and visualization tools like Google Earth, everyone can see anything from the sky. In fact, many people have made a game out of finding oddities in satellite photos.
Now it's one thing to see landmarks like this and snicker over a designer's missteps 40 years ago (the Navy says it noticed the shape but that it didn't think anyone would see it from above), but it's another thing altogether to complain to the Navy about the shape of a building when viewed from space. But people really seem to have the time on their hands: The Navy says it's been inundated with complaints.

j.colfax
09-23-10, 09:47 PM
all things can be used either way. nothing's by nature exclusively good OR evil.

KernNeart
09-23-10, 10:49 PM
Some Hindu's believe that the symbol signifies the will of all, or Brahman, or even the wheel of Karma.

http://www.dedroidify.com/blogimages/rfid_swastika.jpg

nietzschefan
09-23-10, 11:11 PM
What a f**** idea!! As if Hindus have tattoos on their foreheads.

I think your command of English, is not good enough to post here.

Fraggle Rocker
09-29-10, 02:09 PM
To be honest, I don't know how many people realize that the swastika was around long before Hitler and the Nazis.Outside of India or another country with Indian cultural traditions? Not in a graduate program at a university?

Probably about thirty-six of us.

If you study German, after a few months it dawns on you that Swastika can't possbily be a German word. It would be spelled Schwasticke. So you start to wonder where they got it from.

kmguru
10-06-10, 03:45 PM
The Swastika: A Symbol of Goodness or Hate?

Western hemisphere: Hate
Eastern hemisphere: Good Luck, Blessing, Labha in Sanskrit I think

kevinalm
11-17-10, 05:41 PM
The Swastika: A Symbol of Goodness or Hate?

Western hemisphere: Hate
Eastern hemisphere: Good Luck, Blessing, Labha in Sanskrit I think

Except for certain native tribes in the Western hemisphere (like the Navaho iirc). To them, it is a holy symbol representing the four winds, the four cardinal directions. Basically, the world or universe. It was such a powerful symbol that traditionally it was never put into permanent form, only in sand paintings and such during rituals, to be destroyed by sundown. Putting it on a shirt as in the photo in a prior post in this thread would have been sacrilegious to traditionalists.

There is an episode of "The History Detectives" where they investigate a Native blanket with a swastika. Very enlightening.

Fraggle Rocker
11-18-10, 02:12 PM
Eastern hemisphere: Good Luck, Blessing, Labha in Sanskrit I thinkSvastika is a Sanskrit word, meaning "being fortunate," although it's hard to translate out of context in precise grammar. It's rooted in the word svasti, which means prosperity, well-being, luck, etc.

Some say the symbol is nothing more than the letters that comprise the individual words su and asti in a particular Indian alphabet. As a Buddhist symbol it has been incorporated into the Chinese character set, and pronounced wan.

It occurs in many cultures, including Celtic, Hopi and Navajo, and it was used as the flag of a tribe that rebelled against the government of Panama. After being discovered in Ancient Greek ruins it achieved modest popularity in the West in the late 19th century; it was originally called by its Greek name, the gammadion, but the Sanskrit word svasktika/suasktika replaced it in English in 1871.

By 1920 it had become a worldwide symbol of good luck, and can be found on European monuments and buildings from that era--although it will be hard to find a European who will show you where they are. The Nazi party adopted it in that year, because of their fanciful notion that the Germans were direct descendants of the Aryans. Because of this, by the mid-1930s it had fallen into disrepute in the West outside of Germany, but not in other cultures.

John99
11-18-10, 03:05 PM
I never understood the fascination with drawings or why someone would elevate them to something mythical or "evil or even good. Someone put some lines on a piece of paper and made a design. The whole concept just creeps me out. But being a Nazi symbol i understand it boils down to intent. Of course in reality it is just a mediocre drawing of some lines made up in an ancient art department.

Fraggle Rocker
11-18-10, 06:59 PM
Of course in reality it is just a mediocre drawing of some lines made up in an ancient art department.Actually it's a shape that arises in any basket-weaving society because the weavers see it in their work every day. It has popped up independently in a great many pre-modern cultures.

keith1
11-18-10, 09:51 PM
The Navy's building is not a swastika, but four separate "L" structures, placed on the acreage as to facilitate maximum light to all spaces. The individual right-angled building is stable, and efficiently duplicated identically from one blueprint, no doubt a cost saving for the American taxpayer. It's a standard issue layout.

The design of the swastika comes from the older Sanskrit, from the religious practice of sitting in the dark, and recalling the Phosphene (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phosphene) light patterns as divinely inspired. The same patterns can be seen when rubbing the eyes, or any light pressure by the fingers upon the closed eyes.