After studying The Space Act (http://www.hq.nasa.gov/ogc/spaceact.html#ACCESS), in which the following is stated;

Section 303. (a) Information obtained or developed by the Administrator in the performance of his functions under this Act shall be made available for public inspection; except (A) information authorized or required by Federal statute to be withheld, (B) information classified to protect the national security; and (C) information described in subsection (b): Provided, That nothing in this Act shall authorize the withholding of information by the Administrator from the duly authorized committees of the Congress.

I found section B of the most interest, and feel needs to be studied.Information classified to protect the national security of the United States.

For many years’ we’ve all heard the stories involving NASA and Alien information being hidden or classified top secret.

My hypothesis is that NASA is obligated to classify information which would demonstrate the technological advancement of alien intelligence. Even if NASA did discover intelligent alien life – due to Section 303 of the space act, they cannot release that information, or certain elements of such evidence. I don't believe microbial life is top secret. However, I do believe current intelligent life exhibiting their technological advancement is.

Can we prove it? I mean, if it’s covered up, then how in the hell can we prove it? Not every top-secret project has remained so forever. Furthermore, there are leaks and mistakes. Not to mention witnesses who break the law and tell us after their work at NASA or in the military. So, our job would be to find former workers from NASA/DOD who can help prove that section 303 would, and IS applied to information that would illustrate alien intelligence technology.

I came across the testimony of a former NASA scientist. Dr. Norman Bergrun wrote the book, “The Ring-Makers of Saturn”. Dr. Bergrun claims that NASA’s voyager probe, took photographs of an elliptical (cigar-shaped) craft. The object was huge, almost as large as Earth. He said that large portals or apertures could actually be seen in the side of this craft.

When he was asked why NASA and other governmental agencies haven't released this information, Dr. Bergrun said that the 1958 Space Act states that the public will be informed regarding results of space photos and data only if it is determined that such data are not a threat and that a craft this huge would have been considered a threat and deemed to have great military significance. What's of interest here is not the claim about the object, but the fact that he stipulates if such an object DID EXIST, THEN NASA WOULD HAVE TO HIDE IT because of the space act. Would he not be in a position to know such a thing?

Section 303: Information classified to protect the national security, is to be withheld.

Karl Wolfe - “We walked over to one side of the lab and he said, by the way, we’ve discovered a base on the backside of the moon. I said whose? What do you mean whose? He said, yes, we’ve discovered a base on the backside of the moon. And at that point I became frightened and I was a little terrified, thinking to myself that if anybody walks in the room now, I know we’re in jeopardy, we’re in trouble, because he shouldn’t be giving me this information. I was fascinated by it, but I also knew that he was overstepping a boundary that he shouldn’t. Then he pulled out one of these mosaics and showed this base on the moon, which had geometric shapes- there were towers, there were spherical buildings, there were very tall towers and things that looked somewhat like radar dishes but they were large structures…
This fellow and I were the same rank; I think he was very distressed. He had the same pallor and demeanor as the scientists outside the room; they were just as concerned as he was. And he needed to discuss it with somebody.
Some of the structures are half a mile in size. So they’re huge structures. And they’re all different sized structures in different photographs. Some of the shapes, as I said, were – some of the buildings were very tall, thin structures. I don’t know how tall they were but they must be very tall.
They were angular shots with shadows. There were spherical and domed buildings that were very large. They stood out very clearly, they were large objects. It’s interesting because I tried to relate them in my own mind to structures here on Earth, and they don’t compare to anything that you see here in scale and structure”.

Now, he claims this was done while working for the NSA. I have since petitioned the NSA with a FOIA requesting any images or information regarding any classified Lunar Orbiter images. I have not heard anything as of yet, but really don’t expect to hear much because I think the images are available, but very obscure and well hidden, or just never commented on. Or dis-informed about them.

Donna Hare had a secret clearance while working for NASA contractor, Philco Ford. She testifies that she was shown a photo with a distinct UFO. Her colleague explained that it was his job to airbrush such evidence of UFOs out of photographs before they were released to the public.

This begins to build the case, and starts to prove that section 303 of the space act does cover UFO’s or “Alien intelligence”. What I find most interesting is the erasing of “UFO’S” from photographs. If they were not alien or secret crafts (of our own) – then there’d be no reason to hide them.

Maybe I should move this too pseudoscience, that's where everyone goes.. :D

Hum,
>>nasa and aliens
i haven’t heard of anything, are you sure that it’s not an urban myth?

Anyway, back on topic...

My own view is that nasa is becoming <i>more</i> of a wing of the military, so that any innovative or useful science/application that is invented will automatically be adopted by the armed forces.
A trend starting from its inception, (<i>a counter to the Russian threat</i>), and accelerated during the regan star wars era.

The latest that comes to mind is the Ram-jet technology that propelled the <b>x craft</b> to mach 10 (<i>or something like that</i>) and was handed over to a company working directly for the military.
I suppose that missile technology would be more lucrative than civilian applications, but this to my mind is a clear indication of where nasa is heading.

So it should come as no surprise that nasa is obligated to classify information in the interests of national security....

Huuuummm...

It might be that there are aliens in Area 51........ :D

However, I do remember reading somehwere that they were worried about extraterrestrial bacteria that could exist on the moon. In fact, I remember an episode of "I Dream of Gennie" where Major Nelson and Major Hiley had to stay in a detox chamber of some kind for about two weeks (I think), because Nasa thought they could be carrying bacteria from the moon which would be warmful for us.... :D

Altough I do think this entire act sort of goes a little beyond simple bacteria..... :bugeye:

No, you may be on to something there.

That's what is so frustrating about the Space Act. It does not specify what is "a threat". If I had to guess, I bet the list of threats are also classified.

I suppose the biggest thing in all of this is the constitutionality of classifying such images. If they are, would that be illegal?

I recieved my response back from the NSA pertaining to the "alien base" on the Moon, and they referred me back to NASA. So I have sent them an FOIA requesting ANY classified images related to the Moon. Mainly I just want to know if any images of the Moon are classified. Then go from there. If we know their classified the question becomes, why?

Mainly I just want to know if any images of the Moon are classified. Then go from there. If we know their classified the question becomes, why?
Wow! You may well respond to this post with a sarcastic comment or a put down, because you misinterpret my intent, but what the heck. This makes more sense than anything else you have said in all the posts you have made on every thread. I await the results with interest.

They respond by snail mail, so it will probably take a few weeks/month.

If I had to guess what you're intentions are, I would think it's one of several.

#1. Want some images to be classified, and then ask me how I found "structures" if their classified?? (Typical debunkery tactic).

#2. You feel you ALLREADY know their response will be NO. Thinking that means I will be eating crow. Which, it does not. ;)

#3. Or! You are genuinely interested in finding such a thing out, to see where it leads.

Honestly, I don't know which, maybe none of them.

>>>>Honestly, I don't know which, maybe none of them.

that's because you are too tied up with conspiracy theories. my take on Ophiolite's post. you've put forward a hypothosis and are to conduct an experiment. and repeat going by this " Then go from there". your final "why" leads us to believe that you haven't yet decided on the outcome.

but, like i said, that is just my take on it.

#3. Or! You are genuinely interested in finding such a thing out, to see where it leads.

As above.
It is an interesting approach to further investigation of your underlying hypothesis that there are possibly structures that may be alien on the moon. If, for example, there were classified photos and these were of areas where you have identified anomalous structures from low resolution photos, that would be suggestive.
As I understand it NASA are obligated, under the Freedom of Information Act, to tell you if there are any classfied photos. I think it is reasonable to accept this obligation will be honoured. So if there are no classified lunar photos this would weaken your argument considerably, since nobody with anything that passes for experience in this field has been able to see what you are seeing in these photos.
So what I find interesting is that this is a neat way of furthering your investigation. Naturally I have an expectation of the outcome - that only becomes a bias if I were to allow my expectation to influence my interpretation of the data.
You may feel that I would be susceptible to this. I know that I am not. On a daily basis I am evaluating engineering data to establish equipment failure mechanisms. I enter each investigation with prejudices and expectations. These are discarded, amended, reinvented, jiggled, deconstructed, reassembled a dozen times in response to critical review of the ideas, assessment of new data, and re-evaluation of old data.
I hope you can prove there are alien structures on the moon. I just don't think you have even shown a glimmer of that possiblity yet.

You have to understand, it's almost impossible to PROVE there are "alien structures" on the moon. You can only point to potentially anomalous structures, build the list and then study those combined with the way in which NASA works. Figure out if it's possible, first. If not, then the investigation will show very little. As for those images, "that nobody see's anything in". That's just wrong. You (and others) acted like the apollo frame was interesting, but when I have about 5 other's with similar looking structures, with more detail and structure, such as;

http://img217.exs.cx/img217/8396/screenhunter0249wq.jpg

It makes me wonder if anyone is looking at them.. BTW, this is from lo3-112-h2b (bottom-left).

Also, the only low-resolution image I've used are from the Apollo image. Of course, the debunker ridicules and mocks the low resolution images used and ignores the high resolution ones made available. :D typical.

I'm glad you're interested to see what NASA says. So am I, but guarded. As I've said before, I know some of these "structures" are out there. However, perhaps some of the REALLY GOOD SHOTS of them are hidden?

I've not heard from NASA yet. Not that I expected to, this soon. If Stryder locks this post (as he's doing to all of mine now) then I'll just make a new one with an update. Though he might lock that one as well.. :mad:

**UPDATE** http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/sdi/program/furlotte/sdi240.html

No, NASA did not respond yet. Though, in a way they have. I was reading online about how NASA "classified" some 23,000 Clementine images from the "far side" of the Moon. :eek:

They were asking why? Now, I suppose my question is, is this routine knowlege? If this is true then NASA' response should be more than interesting.

John Velez was concerned about some 23,000 images that were gathered by the Clementine Project of the far side of the moon and were subsequently not released and were designated to be classified information.

What the heck does this mean? I go this from here: http://astrobiology.arc.nasa.gov/workshops/societal/societal_report.pdf on page 50. It's the reference to the space act and how it complicates the issue. I just can't figure out what this guy is saying.. :confused:

Response to Discovery of Extraterrestrial Life
Steven J. Dick,
U. S. Naval Observatory
The study of the human response to the discovery of extraterrestrial life [ETL] is a
complex problem that falls within the 1958 National Aeronautics and Space
Act objective for "the establishment of long-range studies of the potential benefits to
be gained from, the opportunities for, and the problems involved in the utilization of
aeronautical and space activities for peaceful scientific purposes."

In other words, he's saying that if they should discover extraterrestrial life, the first thing they are going to think about with regards to the 1958 act is not Section 303 (b) but Section 102 (d) (4), where section 102 (d) reads: (d) The aeronautical and space activities of the United States shall be conducted so as to contribute materially to one or more of the following objectives:
and (4) is the objective described.

btimsah I really don't know why you carry on being so obsessed with the Space Act. It's just the act that set up NASA. Find the Acts of Congress which began any quasi-governmental body (we call them Quangoes in the UK) particularly with a military or semi-military involvement, and I'm quite certain you'll find a national security clause couched in precisely the same terms. The importance is not in the clause, which after all was basically written, at the height of the Cold War, to make sure the Russians didn't learn the secrets of how to get to the moon or build missile platforms in space. Were there to be no such clause, NASA would only withhold information about aliens if they themselves judged that humanity was not ready for the information (something I do not consider true) or that they got a direct Government directive to keep it secret. Conversely, if they did not get a direct government directive, I do not believe that they would use the Space Act clause to keep it a secret - someone in fact would blow the whistle despite the National Security clause of the Space Act.

I came across the testimony of a former NASA scientist. Dr. Norman Bergrun wrote the book, “The Ring-Makers of Saturn”. Dr. Bergrun claims that NASA’s voyager probe, took photographs of an elliptical (cigar-shaped) craft. The object was huge, almost as large as Earth. He said that large portals or apertures could actually be seen in the side of this craft.Evidently a nutjob, because you do not need to GO to Saturn to detect an object almost as large as Earth!

When he was asked why NASA and other governmental agencies haven't released this information, Dr. Bergrun said that the 1958 Space Act states that the public will be informed regarding results of space photos and data only if it is determined that such data are not a threat and that a craft this huge would have been considered a threat and deemed to have great military significance. What's of interest here is not the claim about the object, but the fact that he stipulates if such an object DID EXIST, THEN NASA WOULD HAVE TO HIDE IT because of the space act. Would he not be in a position to know such a thing?What you say is true, if it was remotely possible to hide a craft as large as that. But that is not what you are actually claiming for yourself. You claim that the moon has structures on it. It would be evident from any amateur astronomer if there was actual live activity going on to this day, so if there are structures on the Moon and if there was any civilisation on there, it must be long since dead. Such a long-dead civilisation would clearly not constitute any kind of national security threat and therefore would not be kept secret.

I've argued this with you before, btimsah - During the height of the Cold War all America's military knowhow in terms of cruise missiles and creating nuclear bombs was kept top secret. So was Russia's knowhow in military technology. So was what we knew about their military technology. Of course. It's basic. But what was not kept secret was the fact that the Russians had a bomb! In fact the government would find no usefulness in keeping the fact of "alien" (in a national sense) technology secret - only the details. And the same would hold true of actual alien technology.

Ah, Silas. Your two posts smack of common sense. Regretably it is common knowledge that any attempts to smack sense into btimsah are doomed to fail.

So you are saying that Dr. Bergrund is wrong? I would trust his common sense, and knowlege over anyone else on this board. At least he worked there and has first hand knowlege.

Secondly, why would NASA classify any images of other planets, asteroids, moons or any other bodies in our solar system if not to hide ETI?

Evidently a nutjob, because you do not need to GO to Saturn to detect an object almost as large as Earth!

What you say is true, if it was remotely possible to hide a craft as large as that. But that is not what you are actually claiming for yourself. You claim that the moon has structures on it. It would be evident from any amateur astronomer if there was actual live activity going on to this day, so if there are structures on the Moon and if there was any civilisation on there, it must be long since dead. Such a long-dead civilisation would clearly not constitute any kind of national security threat and therefore would not be kept secret.

I've argued this with you before, btimsah - During the height of the Cold War all America's military knowhow in terms of cruise missiles and creating nuclear bombs was kept top secret. So was Russia's knowhow in military technology. So was what we knew about their military technology. Of course. It's basic. But what was not kept secret was the fact that the Russians had a bomb! In fact the government would find no usefulness in keeping the fact of "alien" (in a national sense) technology secret - only the details. And the same would hold true of actual alien technology.

This has nothing to do with common sense, because you are just completely wrong. The government, back in the late 50's and 60's was certainly worried about the implication's of finding evidence of ETI. Go and read the Brookings Report, in which NASA and the Brookings Institute felt the need to study the effects such a discovery would have on the world. They hint that evidence may need to be hidden untill the entire world could handle such a thing. They even cited past civilization's that collapsed once they realized there were other's like them in existance. The report also talked about how we could find ancient alien artifacts left over on the Moon and other planets.. lol (found them allready)

Of course, you have to be willing to consider such a concept first. I give this concept some time, if the evidence falls apart then it's hogwash. Right now there's enough evidence to suggest there may very well be enough fire to the smoke.