A long time ago there was a race on earth, which was totally different from the man we see today. (1 Mos.6:4) Their consciousness was on a divine state and they followed the "Law of God" without attaching themselves to the body and its properties - egoism. This race truly deserved to be called the "Sons of God". Their heads were higher and greater than man's rounded skull. Later, in Egypt, many "great" people like pharaos started to use high hats, to show that they would be higher than others.

But already then, at that time, creatures lived on earth which looked like the Sons of God, but had a much more physical body and were a lot behind in evolution. Because they were spiritually weak, they became attached (became one) with their body and its properties. They had wars with each other, the animals and nature. They were early humans (neanderthals...). The "son of man" which we see today has become of the mixture of these two races.....

The sons of god went to the 4 wind directions and took upon their shoulders a great burden (or sacrifice), for they married the daughters of men, to make children with them. (So that the rise from matter would be possible) The giants, which were called the sons of god, died later, because they didn't procreate themselves, but their heredity (or legacy) was given to the humans by their, so called, divine/royal blood. But before the sons of god died, they teached man some secrets and showed them an example how to live righteosly with love. Because the royal blood mixed with the sons of men, it is even today possible, by the law of heredity that the son of god is born on earth, who has pure blood...

Even today, when the sons of god are not on earth anymore, it is possible that the "son of god" is born on earth, even under the darkest time. In some cultures people will understand him more and in other countries they will not understand it yet. He will be treated different in different cultures and by different people, depending on how high the sons of men have reached in evolution. In cultures where people haven't understood spiritual truth, they cannot accept the truth. They will make fun of him, and will mock him, and kill him. But when this happens a power is loose and makes the people understand, also in that culture.

God's sons told the same same truth over the whole earth, in different ways, depending on their culture, and how high they had reached in evolution. That is why many religions were born, yet in reality there was only one teaching. But in many cultures they know this, and they know that all the different religions are different paths to one mountain. The east has discovered the truth, but for the laugh of the west, the east is silent. People could not understand everything that the son of god said when he was on earth and they wrote it down in a different way, depending on their culture, their skincolor and other material properties.

The sons of god knew the truth because of their omniscience, but their teaching was seen by early humans as magic or religion. They even made their own stories to tell how the nature works and what the truth is. A lightning appears when the two opposites collide. But the sons of men rather explained that there was a god of thunder which made it because he was angry. And there is not much difference in these two views, because truth can be told also by fairytales. But if they hold on to their stories they'll never be able to control any powers. People distorted what the sons of god told them, but they still felt the incredible power and love in their words that they believed in them and wrote everything down for later generations.

The sons of god have also built great buildings, in the form of equal triangles (3) with a square (4) bottom, in egypt. When they died their bodies was kept in the pyramids because an energy came from them! In the pyramids, they had scriptures about their teachings, because nothing was hidden for them. They knew the laws of nature, they knew who and what they were, and they knew everything. But under dark ages these scriptures will be lost, so that man has to find the truth by himself. First know yourself, man's own mystery; the mystery of the Sphinx.
In other cultures where people understood the truth better as a spiritual experience, they built gigantic figures in stone of a man sitting in the form of an equal triangle with four faces. (1 ezekiel 4-28)

(Sorry about bad english)

it's a GUILT trip. it is written by males who want to make you feel bad about your natrual self...being attuned with your body and Nature. so they concoct a story/myth about so-called superior beings who bla bla bla. a load of crap!

What are you talking about? This has nothing to do with "males" or "females".

what768: What are you talking about? This has nothing to do with "males" or "females".
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M*W: It has everything to do with "males" or "females." The original Godess was female. Where have you been? Only females
"create". Males "destroy." This world is based on "female psychology." Females are the "creators." Males are the "destroyers." Long live "females!"

I think that, just maybe, some males create things. This would be easy to check.

There is no female or male in spirit, it is just a shell. We take on us its properties because we identify ourselves with the shell. Anyway, the Daughters of God couldn't have married the Sons of Men because their divine blood would've mixed with the impure blood of the Sons of Men. When you pour red wine to a glass of water, the water becomes impure but the red wine is still the same.

Your Sonship is one by adoption because He pities the orphans. It is by grace that you call Him Father because you are invited to stay, not because you deserved it. This is not true of the One and Only begotten Son of God who has always lived in His Father's house.

I was there before you. I created you. I gave you life. The depth of what I gave you longs for me. You can never get away from my spirit. I am the devil and you are my pawn. I created ydou. I give you life.

God asks Job, Where were you when the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy . The Sons of God (in the OT, not to be confused with the NT) existed prior to the creation of Man. The Sons of God saw the daughters of man and married them because they were lovely.

We are not specifically told who these Sons of God (in the OT) were but it is not too hard to guess - they were Angels (or so say the Jewish Sages of old). When they married women, they fell from heaven and became flesh just as Adam did. They fell and God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment; and spared not the old world, but saved Noah, the eight generation, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly... This is the true story of the fall of the angels from heaven - not the Lucifer nonesense.

So wait, angels fall prey to carnal lust?
What about Lucifer's fall? Didn't he take some angels with him?

So wait, angels fall prey to carnal lust?
I guess so. The bible certainly seems to say that. They even had offspring.
Genesis 6:2-4 That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and took them wives of all which they chose. And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh; yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years. There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.
Some say the reference to "giants" (or tyrants) is a reference to dinosaurs. Notice also that the date set for this event is 120 years before the flood (it takes Noah 100 years to build the ark).
What about Lucifer's fall? Didn't he take some angels with him?
There is no Lucifer in the bible (the name was inserted by the KJV translators). The fall of Lucifer with a third of the angels is Catholic mythology, but maybe they got the idea from the Genesis story.

No, the "angels" (sons of God, giants) didn't fall prey for carnal lust, I explained it above why they did it. You wouldn't be here now if they wouldn't have made this sacrifice. Also, they are NOT reference to dinosaurs.

what768: No, the "angels" (sons of God, giants) didn't fall prey for carnal lust, I explained it above why they did it. You wouldn't be here now if they wouldn't have made this sacrifice. Also, they are NOT reference to dinosaurs.
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M*W: Taken from: FROM THE ASHES OF ANGELS: The Forbidden Legacy of a Fallen Race, by Andrew Collins, 2001.

Collins asks these questions:

"Do angels and fallen angels exist outside the realms of myth? What were their true origins, and what impact might they have had on the rise of civilization?"

Collins answeres these questions:

- "angels, demons and fallen angels were flesh and blood human beings responsible for the foundations of Western civilization;"

- "Eden, Heaven and Paradise were once earthly realm placed amid the mountains of Kurdistan;"

- "these human angels, known in ancient Judaic text as 'Watchers' and 'Nephilim', came originally from Egypt and were responsible for the construction of the Great Sphinx and other cyclopean monuments; and,"

- "both Egypt's high civilization and the Watchers of Kurdistan have left as a legacy to humanity a chilling warning that the world ignores at its peril."

Having stated that, Collins goes on to explain the 'sons of God.'

"Theologians are more or less united in their opinion that thet widespread accounts of fallen angels cohaabiting with mortal women, like those included in the Book of Enoch, the Genesis Apocryphon and similar texts, are no more than fanciful expansions of three verses to be found in Chapter 6 of the Book of Genesis, squeezed between a genealogical listing of the anteediluvian patriarchs and a breif account of Noah's Ark and the coming of the Flood."

"The first lines in question, making up Chapter 6, verses 1-2, are indelibly imprinted in my mind and read as follows:

And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the ground, and daughters were born unto them, that the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all that they chose. 11

Collins goes on to say:

"By 'sons of God' the text means heavenly angels, although the Hebrew original bene ha-elohim, should really be translated as 'sons of the gods', a much more disconcerting prospect."

"In verse 3 of Chapter 6, God unexpectedly pronounces that his spirit cannot remain in men for ever, and that since humanity is a creation of flesh, its lifespan will be shortened to 'an hundred and twenty years'. Yet in verse 4 the tone suddenly reverts to the original theme of the chapter, for it says:

The Nephilim were in the earth in those days, and also after that, when the sons of God came unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them: the same were the mighty men which were of old, the men of renown.12"

Collins explains:

"In the hundreds of times I have read these isolated words out aloud I have wondered to myself: what could they possibly mean? There is no concensus in answer to this question, and scholars, mystics and speculative writers have all given their own interpretations over the past two thousand years. Theologians agree in general that such accounts are not to be taken as literal fact, but only as a symbol of humanity's fall from a state of spiritual grace to one of conflict and corruption in the days prior to the Great Flood."

"What the texts are saying, the theologians would argue, is that if evil and corruption on this scale does occur in the world, then only those of the purest heart and spirit -- individuals exemplified by Noah and his righteous family -- will be spared the wrath of God. It is therefore a purely allegorical teaching intent on conveying to the reader the inevitable consequences of wickedness."

"The references in verses 2 and 4 to 'the sons of God' coming 'unto the daaughters of men', so the scholars believe, demonstrate how even those closest to the purity of God can become infected by corruption and evil. It was usually accepted among religious teachers that any such unholy union between angels and mortal women could only, because it was against God's will, lead to the creation of monstrous offspring. It was this thought-provoking concept which had, according to the early Church Fathers, inspired the creation of various apocryphal and pseudepigraphal works dealing with the fall of the angels in the corruption of mankind before the time of the Great Flood."

Let's take a look at what has transpired here:

1) Collins explains the existence of angels, but God is not explained. Collins believes they were flesh and blood beings.

2) Collins believes the literal placements of Eden, Heaven and Paradise, but that does not prove they actually existed.

3) Collins believes the angels were originally from Egypt and helped build the pyramids. Could be, but there is no other documented reference I could find.

4) Collins believes the angels left a warning to civilization that our world would be imperiled.

The references in Genesis clearly say that the 'sons of God' found the 'daughters of men' to be 'fair,' and they had children with them. Therefore, during our human evolution, homo sapiens sapiens branched off and became a different branch than the Neanderthals. We acquired a greater intelligence than the early humans, and our brains enlarged making human birth more complicated than the apes.

The problem with the writers of Genesis is that they believed in a patriarchal God -- a male God. With this being said, they condemned women to be the sexual deviant of humanity, but they were wrong. 'The sons of God' found earthly women to be 'fair.' The attraction emanated from 'the sons of God.' The 'daughters of men' were not necessarily attract to 'the sons of God.' Therefore, the whole blame for this sexual union was put upon 'the sons of God,' and not upon the female animal. My point is, the Bible is wrong.

M:W - It seems to me that you just have issue with the male - female power struggles. If you can say "I am what I am" then what is it to you that someone says this or that about the hierarchy of man's little set up? Surely pure logic would say that it is by grace that you can say 'I am what I am' and stand apart from the maddening crowd? You know you did not create yourself but yet you do not have peace in that as you stand apart from it all. In all of your struggles do you not turn to the One who can give you peace? He who you can bow your head to and know He is worthy?

regards

c20

c20H25N3o: M:W - It seems to me that you just have issue with the male - female power struggles.
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M*W: And what's so wrong with that?
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c20H25N3o: If you can say "I am what I am" then what is it to you that someone says this or that about the hierarchy of man's little set up? Surely pure logic would say that it is by grace that you can say 'I am what I am' and stand apart from the maddening crowd?
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M*W: I can say and do believe that "I am what I am" and I'm happy with what I am. I have never followed the crowd -- nor feel the need to. I used to be a Christian just like you, but I found out the truth -- that it was always a lie.
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c20H25N3o: You know you did not create yourself but yet you do not have peace in that as you stand apart from it all. In all of your struggles do you not turn to the One who can give you peace? He who you can bow your head to and know He is worthy?
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M*W: My parents created me, and you're wrong, I have MUCH peace within myself that I don't need God to follow the crowd. Why do you assume I have struggles and need peace? Just because I'm now anti-Christian doesn't mean I need peace! What you are saying is that I 'must not be at peace' because I do not follow YOUR god. Man, all I can say to you is that you need to do a lot of reading on this subject, and I don't mean the Bible -- the Book of Lies! I don't 'bow my head' to ANY god. I am thankful only to myself for what I have accomplished in life and what I've been able to provide my family. It was the sweat of my own brow that has led me to where I am today -- and it's certainly not in any church!

- "Eden, Heaven and Paradise were once earthly realm placed amid the mountains of Kurdistan;"
I watched a fascinating program on the Discovery channel in which Historian David Rohl placed the location of Eden, through biblical, Sumerian and Asserian references, to the Valley of Tabris in northern Iraq (I believe this is part of the Caucus Mountains south of Kurdistan).
"By 'sons of God' the text means heavenly angels, although the Hebrew original bene ha-elohim, should really be translated as 'sons of the gods', a much more disconcerting prospect."

Yes, the literal translation for Elohim could indeed be plural, but Elohim is also used often as a title to describe a single God, as in YHVH 'LHYM (Yehova Elohim) which is both a title and a name - like President Bush. It is only thought to be plural because it ends in the "M" sound. This does not necessarily mean it is a plural. In English, we build the word form with an "S" sound at the end to mean plural but just because a word ends in "S" does not mean it has to be plural (Glass, Floss, Octopus, Schoolbus). In the same way, a Hebrew word ending in "M" might be plural and it might not. In the case of Elohim, the word EL simply means god (any god). The normal construction to make it plural would be to add "M" or "IM" to the end making it "ELIM". This is not quite the case with ELOHIM so it is not quite as clear whether this is in fact plural or not.

The Jews actually avoid this word completely since it is sometimes used to refer to God - they say ELOKIM or simply Adoni (Lord).

Peter specifically talks about the angels that sinned and God put them in chains of darkness in Hell. I don't think we should diefy fallen angels. Since the bible record specifically makes them flesh and puts them 120 years prior to the flood, we should assume they were killed in the flood.

Did you say (I'm condensing a bit) that the offspring of the angel-women union were the Neandertals? Interesting idea.

David F.: I watched a fascinating program on the Discovery channel in which Historian David Rohl placed the location of Eden, through biblical, Sumerian and Asserian references, to the Valley of Tabris in northern Iraq (I believe this is part of the Caucus Mountains south of Kurdistan).
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M*W: I'm not sure, but I think the Valley of Tabriz is in northern Iran. Close enough.
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David F.: Yes, the literal translation for Elohim could indeed be plural, but Elohim is also used often as a title to describe a single God, as in YHVH 'LHYM (Yehova Elohim) which is both a title and a name - like President Bush. It is only thought to be plural because it ends in the "M" sound. This does not necessarily mean it is a plural. In English, we build the word form with an "S" sound at the end to mean plural but just because a word ends in "S" does not mean it has to be plural (Glass, Floss, Octopus, Schoolbus). In the same way, a Hebrew word ending in "M" might be plural and it might not. In the case of Elohim, the word EL simply means god (any god). The normal construction to make it plural would be to add "M" or "IM" to the end making it "ELIM". This is not quite the case with ELOHIM so it is not quite as clear whether this is in fact plural or not.

The Jews actually avoid this word completely since it is sometimes used to refer to God - they say ELOKIM or simply Adoni (Lord).

Peter specifically talks about the angels that sinned and God put them in chains of darkness in Hell.
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M*W: Where is this hell you speak of?
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David F.: I don't think we should diefy fallen angels. Since the bible record specifically makes them flesh and puts them 120 years prior to the flood, we should assume they were killed in the flood.
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M*W: I didn't think angels could die. I thought they were eternal beings (creatures) as opposed to those of us who are created by evolution.
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David F.: Did you say (I'm condensing a bit) that the offspring of the angel-women union were the Neandertals? Interesting idea.
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M*W: No, humans were not descended from the Neanderthals. That was a branch that simply died out. No one knows for sure why. I tend to think it may have been their diet. When early humans added protein (meat) to their diet, I've read that it caused an immunological deficiency, like AIDS, and they simply died out. However, on Discovery Channel a couple of years ago, they indicated where the Neanderthals may have died out due to the inbreeding of the Elohim (sons of god/s) and daughters of men (flesh and blood humans). That leaves modern man descended from both these type beings with the enlarged brain.

David F.: I watched a fascinating program on the Discovery channel in which Historian David Rohl placed the location of Eden, through biblical, Sumerian and Asserian references, to the Valley of Tabris in northern Iraq (I believe this is part of the Caucus Mountains south of Kurdistan).
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M*W: I'm not sure, but I think the Valley of Tabriz is in northern Iran. Close enough.
Yes, you're right and I knew that - fumble fingers.
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David F.: Yes, the literal translation for Elohim could indeed be plural, but Elohim is also used often as a title to describe a single God, as in YHVH 'LHYM (Yehova Elohim) which is both a title and a name - like President Bush. It is only thought to be plural because it ends in the "M" sound. This does not necessarily mean it is a plural. In English, we build the word form with an "S" sound at the end to mean plural but just because a word ends in "S" does not mean it has to be plural (Glass, Floss, Octopus, Schoolbus). In the same way, a Hebrew word ending in "M" might be plural and it might not. In the case of Elohim, the word EL simply means god (any god). The normal construction to make it plural would be to add "M" or "IM" to the end making it "ELIM". This is not quite the case with ELOHIM so it is not quite as clear whether this is in fact plural or not.

The Jews actually avoid this word completely since it is sometimes used to refer to God - they say ELOKIM or simply Adoni (Lord).

Peter specifically talks about the angels that sinned and God put them in chains of darkness in Hell.
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M*W: Where is this hell you speak of?
I don't know, but the bible seems to equate Hell and Grave. Grave is in the ground so perhaps Hell is too? I don't think I really want to find out!
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David F.: I don't think we should diefy fallen angels. Since the bible record specifically makes them flesh and puts them 120 years prior to the flood, we should assume they were killed in the flood.
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M*W: I didn't think angels could die. I thought they were eternal beings (creatures) as opposed to those of us who are created by evolution.
Yes, Angels cannot die, but then neither could Adam before the fall. The bible seems to be saying that Adam was not mortal flesh until after the fall and when the angels fell, they too became mortal flesh - thus the phrase "he also is flesh" from Gen 6:3.
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David F.: Did you say (I'm condensing a bit) that the offspring of the angel-women union were the Neandertals? Interesting idea.
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M*W: No, humans were not descended from the Neanderthals. That was a branch that simply died out. No one knows for sure why. I tend to think it may have been their diet. When early humans added protein (meat) to their diet, I've read that it caused an immunological deficiency, like AIDS, and they simply died out. However, on Discovery Channel a couple of years ago, they indicated where the Neanderthals may have died out due to the inbreeding of the Elohim (sons of god/s) and daughters of men (flesh and blood humans). That leaves modern man descended from both these type beings with the enlarged brain.
Yes, I take it from the bible that man is not descendant from the fallen angels either. It says of Noah that "he was perfect in his generations" which I take to mean that he had no "fallen angel genes" or that there were no fallen angels in his anscestry. Noah is the only person in the bible with this description. Since the Neanderthals died out and since the bible hints that the fallen angels died out, I thought perhaps you were equating the two.

c20H25N3o: It seems to me that you just have issue with the male - female power struggles.

M*W: And what's so wrong with that?

c20H25N3o: Nothing. I just noted it. Verbose maybe.

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c20H25N3o: If you can say "I am what I am" then what is it to you that someone says this or that about the hierarchy of man's little set up? Surely pure logic would say that it is by grace that you can say 'I am what I am' and stand apart from the maddening crowd?

M*W: I can say and do believe that "I am what I am" and I'm happy with what I am.

c20H25N3o:Good. I am pleased for you genuinely :cool:

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M*W: I have never followed the crowd -- nor feel the need to. I used to be a Christian just like you, but I found out the truth -- that it was always a lie.

c20H25N3o:What was happening in your life at the time that you started to believe it was a lie specifically? What happened to make you want to seek out a new truth? What made you want to escape from Christendom which you once felt connected to?

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c20H25N3o: You know you did not create yourself but yet you do not have peace in that as you stand apart from it all. In all of your struggles do you not turn to the One who can give you peace? He who you can bow your head to and know He is worthy?

M*W: My parents created me, and you're wrong, I have MUCH peace within myself that I don't need God to follow the crowd.

^^ c20H25N3o: This says to me "My parents created me and no one else did so I dont need no nasty God who is gonna kill me thanks."

I am sorry you feel unnacceptable to God.

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M*W: Why do you assume I have struggles and need peace? Just because I'm now anti-Christian doesn't mean I need peace! What you are saying is that I 'must not be at peace' because I do not follow YOUR god. Man, all I can say to you is that you need to do a lot of reading on this subject, and I don't mean the Bible -- the Book of Lies! I don't 'bow my head' to ANY god.

c20H25N3o: You correctly identify exactly where my assumptions are based with the whole 'anti-Christian' thing! Sheesh! To hate a book that has a great message of love in it whether you can comprehend God or not does seem a little twisted to me. Now if the book were Lord of the Rings I would hardly expect you to hate J.R.R Tolkien even if you did not like the monsters in his book would I? You felt judged when you were a Christian and felt that God didnt love you so you set out to prove He wasnt real so you wouldnt need to feel unloved anymore. You feel that you have defeated God, side stepped Him so to speak. You cant 'unthink' Him forever M*W, you are gonna just have to accept that He loves you whether you like it or not.

M*W: I am thankful only to myself for what I have accomplished in life and what I've been able to provide my family. It was the sweat of my own brow that has led me to where I am today -- and it's certainly not in any church

c20H25N3o: Well done. :cool:

peace

c20 :m:

I think that, just maybe, some males create things. This would be easy to check.

Well, the seahorse male does the whole giving birth thing, but the female still has the egg. She merely passes it to him, he fertilizes it and carries the process from then on.

So while technically you could say the male seahorse creates the offspring, it is still down to the woman, so to speak.

Aside from this, I know of no males that actually have such a large role to play in the making of new life.

Well, the seahorse male does the whole giving birth thing, but the female still has the egg. She merely passes it to him, he fertilizes it and carries the process from then on.

So while technically you could say the male seahorse creates the offspring, it is still down to the woman, so to speak.

Aside from this, I know of no males that actually have such a large role to play in the making of new life.



Ok Ive held my tongue long enough with you stupid people! This is a debate about whether males 'create' things??? Are you really that totally totally stupid! Chop your own testicles off for your stupidity! :p

I don't believe I was talking to you, and much that your pissy little drivvel is amusing to read, it doesn't serve much purpose.

And there you are, claiming to be one of the jesus camp. Is he a raving nincompoop aswell, or is that just a personal trait that you can't seem to get rid of, even through all of jesus' guidance?

Maybe jesus should stick to people who have passed puberty, to save the embarrasment you show to him and yourself.

Snake.

David F.: I don't know, but the bible seems to equate Hell and Grave. Grave is in the ground so perhaps Hell is too? I don't think I really want to find out!
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M*W: Let's go outside the bible for a moment. 'Hell' comes from the name of a city in Egypt -- Heliopolis -- meaning 'place of the sun.' Early humans loved but feared the sun, because they believed the sun to be the monotheist god. But the sun was hot, and they couldn't look directly at the face of the sun-god or would be smitten or blinded. We still can't look directly at the sun. But the sun was worshipped because it helped them to grow their crops and it gave them light. So they worshipped it. To them, the sun was god and probably was also hell at the same time. As you know, Egyptians learned to mummify their dead, and they weren't generally buried in the ground, as far as I know, but in dark caves. The Jews had this custom as well. Either way, it was burial IN the earth. Moses brought the idea of monotheism to the ancient world, but he believed the sun to be the One True God. Somewhere down the ages from Moses, the monotheistic belief became this indescribible God-in-Heaven character. Of course, nothing really had changed except the perception of this sky-god became one of God-the-Father. Then, by the time Jesus arrives on the scene, he became known as the Son-of-God, but in reality, it still meant the sun-of-god or the Sun God or God's-only-begotten-son. This image of God remained the same even though our human perception of it evolved through the ages. I understand this perception, that's why I simply don't believe in what ancient man thought he believed.
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David F.: Yes, Angels cannot die, but then neither could Adam before the fall. The bible seems to be saying that Adam was not mortal flesh until after the fall and when the angels fell, they too became mortal flesh - thus the phrase "he also is flesh" from Gen 6:3.
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M*W: My problem with the story of A&E is that the word 'adama' from which the proper name 'Adam' comes from literally means 'red earth,' and in some circles it means 'earthling.' I understand 'Adam' to be symbolic for the Planet Earth. 'Eve' in Hebrew is 'HWWH' pronounced hah-wah. Interestingly, the Hebrew word for 'serpent' is also 'HWWH.' Just how close does that come to 'YHWH' or Yahweh? I believe they are pronounced the same. Could it have been Eve who was God after all? I believe Eve to symbolize all life on earth, or 'evolution.'
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David F.: Yes, I take it from the bible that man is not descendant from the fallen angels either. It says of Noah that "he was perfect in his generations" which I take to mean that he had no "fallen angel genes" or that there were no fallen angels in his anscestry. Noah is the only person in the bible with this description. Since the Neanderthals died out and since the bible hints that the fallen angels died out, I thought perhaps you were equating the two.
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M*W: The story of Noah and the Flood was copied from the earlier flood of Gilgamesh. In fact, that's why some researchers believe the Noah-Flood story came before the Adam-Eve story or the story of the Exodus. In other words, the accurate sequence of both OT and NT are not in true chronological order, but I suppose you already knew that. Same goes for the gospels. Paul's epistles were written from 51-57 AD, long before the gospels were written from about 70 AD to the late first century AD. Scholars now believe it was MM who wrote the Gospel of "John" and Revelations. MM died of old age, some scholars say it was on a Greek isle, but her bones were found in the South of France. Because of my research into MM, I believe Jesus did, in fact, exist, and lived out his life with MM. Archeologists are still looking for Jesus' bones in France.

David F.: I don't know, but the bible seems to equate Hell and Grave. Grave is in the ground so perhaps Hell is too? I don't think I really want to find out!
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M*W: Let's go outside the bible for a moment. 'Hell' comes from the name of a city in Egypt -- Heliopolis -- meaning 'place of the sun.'...
I'm sorry, you are right. I'm using the english word Hell instead of the Hebrew word Ghanna (or Geenna in the NT). Ghanna is, according to the Jews, the left half of Hades (Hades is also a Greek word - Sheol in Hebrew) and it is the location of the lake of fire. The only confirmation from the bible on this point is Jesus' story of Lazareth and the Rich Man. The right half of Hades/Sheol is Paradise, or at least it was until Jesus went to preach to the dead during His three days in the tomb.
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David F.: Yes, Angels cannot die, but then neither could Adam before the fall. The bible seems to be saying that Adam was not mortal flesh until after the fall and when the angels fell, they too became mortal flesh - thus the phrase "he also is flesh" from Gen 6:3.
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M*W: My problem with the story of A&E is that the word 'adama' from which the proper name 'Adam' comes from literally means 'red earth,' and in some circles it means 'earthling.' I understand 'Adam' to be symbolic for the Planet Earth. 'Eve' in Hebrew is 'HWWH' pronounced hah-wah. Interestingly, the Hebrew word for 'serpent' is also 'HWWH.' Just how close does that come to 'YHWH' or Yahweh? I believe they are pronounced the same. Could it have been Eve who was God after all? I believe Eve to symbolize all life on earth, or 'evolution.'
Actually the word used in the Genesis story is H'DM. It only becomes 'DM or Adam after the Fall. In any case, you are right, the word Adam can be translated either as Man or as Red Earth. Eve did not get her name until after the fall. Up to the fall, she is just called H'SH-H or "The Woman". I had to pull my Hebrew Bible out to check on the spellings of Eve (HVH) and Serpent (NKSH - Nachash)? The V and W are actually the same letter in Hebrew so Eve could be HWH which is somewhat close to YHWH or YHVH (which is the way I usually see it spelled). However, the bible specifies that the name YHVH was not known to anyone until God revealed the name to Moses on Sinia so I don't know how that fits with 2500 years earlier and the name given to the woman - Eve? This is a little confusing since Moses seems to have used his new-found name for God throughout the book of Genesis.
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David F.: Yes, I take it from the bible that man is not descendant from the fallen angels either. It says of Noah that "he was perfect in his generations" which I take to mean that he had no "fallen angel genes" or that there were no fallen angels in his anscestry. Noah is the only person in the bible with this description. Since the Neanderthals died out and since the bible hints that the fallen angels died out, I thought perhaps you were equating the two.
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M*W: The story of Noah and the Flood was copied from the earlier flood of Gilgamesh. In fact, that's why some researchers believe the Noah-Flood story came before the Adam-Eve story or the story of the Exodus. In other words, the accurate sequence of both OT and NT are not in true chronological order, but I suppose you already knew that. Same goes for the gospels. Paul's epistles were written from 51-57 AD, long before the gospels were written from about 70 AD to the late first century AD. Scholars now believe it was MM who wrote the Gospel of "John" and Revelations. MM died of old age, some scholars say it was on a Greek isle, but her bones were found in the South of France. Because of my research into MM, I believe Jesus did, in fact, exist, and lived out his life with MM. Archeologists are still looking for Jesus' bones in France.
I tend to think that Noah and the Flood were the true stories passed down to Abraham and to Moses and the Sumerians rewrote the stories to fit their own culture. There are no documents pre-Gilgamesh so we will never know which came first. I haven't read Gilgamesh for a few years, but I don't thinkthe Gilgamesh story of King Z--- (whatever his name was) going through a great flood is significantly different from the bible version, is it?

As for the Gospels and Epistles, you are right, the Epistles (Thessalonians) were probably written first and then the Gospels and then some more of the Epistles from various Authors - but the dates are a little earlier that you quote. We have written documents which quote the Gospels/Epistles which date to the 40-65AD range and you can't quote something which hasn't been written yet.

Interesting story about MM and Jesus...

Maybe jesus should stick to people who have passed puberty, to save the embarrasment you show to him and yourself.

Snake.

You may well be right but He tells me that He is not embarressed of me and that His grace is sufficient for me.

M*W: Scholars now believe it was MM who wrote the Gospel of "John" and Revelations. MM died of old age, some scholars say it was on a Greek isle, but her bones were found in the South of France. Because of my research into MM, I believe Jesus did, in fact, exist, and lived out his life with MM. Archeologists are still looking for Jesus' bones in France.

Actually, you are wrong. :) It is impossible for Jesus (the word of God) to be married to something earthly, and he can also have no bones. Only a body possesses bones, but we ourselves have no such things. You are researching heavenly things with earthly understanding.

M*W does not want to cover her head. She wants to wave her glorious hair all around in public saying "Look at my hair. Isnt it lovely"
Whilst I agree that her hair is lovely, it would be better for her to cover it until her husband arrives so that he alone may appreciate it.

c20H25N3o: M*W does not want to cover her head. She wants to wave her glorious hair all around in public saying "Look at my hair. Isnt it lovely" Whilst I agree that her hair is lovely, it would be better for her to cover it until her husband arrives so that he alone may appreciate it.
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M*W: I submit to no man in heaven or on Earth.

c20H25N3o: M*W does not want to cover her head. She wants to wave her glorious hair all around in public saying "Look at my hair. Isnt it lovely" Whilst I agree that her hair is lovely, it would be better for her to cover it until her husband arrives so that he alone may appreciate it.
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M*W: I submit to no man in heaven or on Earth.

But there are no men in heaven - just sons of God and Angels.
Are you a son of God?

thanks

c20

[QUOTE=c20H25N3o]But there are no men in heaven - just sons of God and Angels. Are you a son of God?
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M*W: I am NOT a man nor am I a "son" of God. I am a woman who loves her family first and foremost. I live for my family. I am a midwife who has birthed her children and also her grandchildren with ease. I am a medical educator who has taught student doctors and nurses. I am a medical writer who has published textbooks for upcoming physicians. I am a poet who has published award-winning poetry. I am a mother, a daughter, a grandmother, and a wife. I was a Christian who found the truth to be a pack of lies. I am an atheist who knows the truth. I am a lover, a mother, and a goddess to my family. I have survived nicely in this man's world. I am a heroine to my grandchildren. I am a lover to my husband. I am the goddess of the universe to those who love me. I believe in the body of the family. I am a genealogist, I am a dreamer. I am a historian of southern culture. I don't believe in lies. I believe in family. Family is the future. I am NOT a christian anymore. I have found the truth, and the truth has set me free. I will write against christianity until I die. That is my only goal in the universe. Christianity is a pack of lies, and I will prove to the world that it is, until I take my last breath.

M*W, are YOU a woman? I that not just your body? Or do you identify yourself with your body, so that you became ONE with it? In me there is no male or female, because they are in balance, the outer is just a shell, like clothes. I don't love my family more than anyone else. You sound like you're everything. I am that. I don't believe in lies either. We are all a family. God is God.

what768: M*W, are YOU a woman? I that not just your body? Or do you identify yourself with your body, so that you became ONE with it? In me there is no male or female, because they are in balance, the outer is just a shell, like clothes. I don't love my family more than anyone else. You sound like you're everything. I am that. I don't believe in lies either. We are all a family. God is God.
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M*W: I am a woman thru and thru. I worship my family who I have created. I do not worship any male "God." My family believes I am God, because I have brought them from the depths to salvation. Why should I believe in any other God? It was me who saved my family from the depths -- not any god out there. I raised my children to believe in "God," but I realized all to soon that there was no "God" out there to save us to pray too. It was me. It was only me who brought them out of darkness to see the light.

what768: M*W, are YOU a woman? I that not just your body? Or do you identify yourself with your body, so that you became ONE with it? In me there is no male or female, because they are in balance, the outer is just a shell, like clothes. I don't love my family more than anyone else. You sound like you're everything. I am that. I don't believe in lies either. We are all a family. God is God.
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M*W: I am a woman thru and thru. I worship my family who I have created. I do not worship any male "God." My family believes I am God, because I have brought them from the depths to salvation. Why should I believe in any other God? It was me who saved my family from the depths -- not any god out there. I raised my children to believe in "God," but I realized all to soon that there was no "God" out there to save us to pray too. It was me. It was only me who brought them out of darkness to see the light.

M*W - I hear what you are saying but how could a starving woman in Africa who has Aid's through no fault of her own, hope to show her children that she herself is God? She doesnt have even enough strength to lift her new born baby to her breast let alone become all the things you have become. How do you tell her that she is a godess? Do you tell your children that she is a godess? Do you tell your children that? How could they believe you when you are basing your faith purely in your 'good achievements'? That african woman could never have achieved what you achieved!
You say you created your family - can you tell me how you did that out of nothing - I need specifics such as how you made the DNA chain, how you decided upon carbon as the base material for life on earth etc etc?
M*W I propose that you were given all that you have and it is by God's good grace that you have all that you have. God makes His sun shine on everyone. Good, bad, beautiful and ugly. You misjdge God's good nature I feel. Even people with a very simple childlike understanding of "Me little, Universe big" would not set themselves up as God i.e. the Creator of all that you see!
It is not for nothing that I type here! It is not for my own benefit you see. I, not God, have better things to do personally but I am compelled to make you see that you are NOT God and that a spirit of humility would be much more pleasing. It is text like this that makes me cry out "O God what is man that you are mindful of him?"

peace

c20

I propose that you were given all that you have and it is by God's good grace that you have all that you have. God makes His sun shine on everyone.

What about the starving AIDS infected African woman from your example? Is that by god's good grace? Is god making his sun shine upon her?

Why does the first part of your post contradict the last part of your post?

What about the starving AIDS infected African woman from your example? Is that by god's good grace? Is god making his sun shine upon her?

Why does the first part of your post contradict the last part of your post?

Snakelord, have you ever been to Africa? Do you know any African people from the regions I speak of? I do! These desperately poor people have more faith in God than do the rich westerners! They do not blame God for their lot but instead 'know' that their God loves them.
They wait for help but none comes. They look at the godless west and are not suprised that help does not flow their way so easily. They know in their material poverty they have great spiritual wealth. They see westerners as the true poor who are blinded by their love of self and things! It is much much more apparent to that African woman how hard it is for the west to be generous. She blesses the west.

peace

c20

Snakelord, have you ever been to Africa?

Well, I did the grand tour of Egypt, but otherwise no.

Do you know any African people from the regions I speak of?

Actually we have many Africans here, and I even know some African slave women here that have been sold by their own families.

These desperately poor people have more faith in God than do the rich westerners! They do not blame God for their lot but instead 'know' that their God loves them.

Sure, they got taken over. They had their own gods, (such as Abellio etc), and their own enitre belief systems. Along comes the church and throughout the ages has forced them into the christian belief.

However, god belief is generally all "poor, diseased, ready to die at any minute" people have. They know things are not going to get instantly better for them, and realise that death is but a step away, ready to claim them. That's the way it is.

You know, some guy wins a few million on the lottery and goes out partying. Then some guy finds out he has a few months to live and he's in church the very next day. Knowing that your life will most likely end soon makes people try absolutely anything to stop it from happening.

There's another thread around here with recent statistics concerning wealth to religion, and aside from the USA, the richer a country is, the less religious it's people are. Africa ranks right up the top with religion, and right at the bottom with wealth. Funnily enough, they also rank extremely low as far as education is concerned. What else do they have but 'belief'?

But tell me C20, what do you think these people pray for?

They wait for help but none comes. They look at the godless west and are not suprised that help does not flow their way so easily.

Are you taking the piss? Do you know how many millions my small country, (UK), sends to Africa every single year? We have special 'help Africa' days, special 'help Africa' concerts and constant TV adverts asking for money, and asking for help. English people contribute masses to help Africa, and I'm sure most countries do.

What you need to realise, is that we didn't cause the problem, but instead are doing our utmost to solve it. The problem had to have been caused by god, who decided to make the country rife with disease and illness, and it's land unable to produce crop. Did we make the country a barren wasteland? Did we fill the country up with mosquitos and other animals that cause death wherever they go, willing to kill everyone regardless to religiosity or age? No, we did not.

And it's us. we are trying to solve these problems and help these people while god sits on his golden throne and does nothing.

They know in their material poverty they have great spiritual wealth.

Sure, anything to take the focus away from the fact they're about to die in some of the most disgusting ways god has ever thought up.

It is much much more apparent to that African woman how hard it is for the west to be generous.

Speak for yourself about lack of generosity. The English give millions upon millions every year to try and help these people. We provide food, medical supplies, education.. What does god provide? Disease, a land that cannot produce crop. When it comes to generosity, we're way above god.

I do not worship any male "God."

Does anyone? Wouldn't that be to worship an idol? God is formless, colorless, "he" is nothing but everything comes from it. God is not any entity fallen from oneness, searching for its complementary half. God is the oneness itself, that which brings everything together, that which creates everything. When the world was "separated" from God, everything in the universe was pulled off from the state of oneness, and they were all created in 2 forms. Magnets and people keep seeking the oneness in each other, because they identify themselves with the material body. But matter and matter can never melt together without being destroyed, we must instead find our other self in ourself, in our consciousness. People themselves cannot create or do anything, it is God who does it through our body. Although, when we have found everything in ourselves, we might as well say that it all happens through Me.
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I saw Contact (1997) yesterday. It's a great movie.