Some really, really intresting articles about huge ancient stone map found in Russia.
Pravda (http://english.pravda.ru/main/2002/04/30/28149.html)
Russian Issues (http://www.therussianissues.com/topics/55/02/04/02/14403.html)
Maybe Atlantis, Lemuria and Veda books' spacecrafts were here after all...

Time to change our view of history and open ourselves to new possibilities?

Just gotta hope it isn't another hoax.

Someone could easily buy scapegoat to find such ancient material(he would get 15minutes of fame...) and later prove it was all wrong and that way make people even more skeptical when it comes to things like these.

Here is how unintentionally or intentionally create a hoax.

Find several old granite or sapphire stones. Use a laser cutter to etch a map that shows when the continents were together. Take it to an area where students of archeology visit often for class projects. Now you have created a new science. I wonder how many such items are out there. When I got my first dremel, I played with it on rocks, wood etc. What if some one in the past 1000 years did similar stuff unintentionally and we are interpreting the results?

Let us build a real time machine to get past data....:D

“It should be noticed, - the professor said, - that the relief has not been manually made by an ancient stonecutter. It is simply impossible. It is obvious that the stone was machined.” X-ray photographs confirmed that the stab was of artificial origin and has been made with some precision tools.

It was difficult to determine even an approximate age of the stab. At first, radiocarbonic analysis was carried out, afterwards levels of stab were scanned with uranium chronometer, though the investigations showed different results and the age of the stab remained unclear. While examining the stone, two shells were found on its surface. The age of one of them – Navicopsina munitus of Gyrodeidae family - is about 500 million years, while of the second one – Ecculiomphalus princeps of Ecculiomphalinae subfamily - is about 120 million years. Namely that age was accepted as a “working version.” “The map was probably created at the time when the Earth’s magnetic pole situated in the today’s area of Franz Josef Land, while this was exactly 120 million years ago, - professor Chuvyrov says

This sounds specious at best.

from Pravda...
It was difficult to determine even an approximate age of the stab. At first, radiocarbonic analysis was carried out, afterwards levels of stab were scanned with uranium chronometer, though the investigations showed different results and the age of the stab remained unclear. While examining the stone, two shells were found on its surface. The age of one of them – Navicopsina munitus of Gyrodeidae family - is about 500 million years, while of the second one – Ecculiomphalus princeps of Ecculiomphalinae subfamily - is about 120 million years. Namely that age was accepted as a “working version.” “The map was probably created at the time when the Earth’s magnetic pole situated in the today’s area of Franz Josef Land, while this was exactly 120 million years ago, - professor Chuvyrov says. – The map we have is beyond of traditional perception of mankind and we need a long time to get used to it. We have got used to our miracle.

If they find more of these slabs and date it properly to 500 million years or even 120 million years - it would be very interesting. I still do not believe UFOs did it. I have always said that there is a high degree of probability we had advanced civilizations many million years before. It could be that we have not one but seven separate civilizations over 750 million years (instead of seven daughters of eve)....

I always thought that why someone would carve maps on a stone. It could be that it was a very large earth relief map on a wall for review like we do 30 feet autocad maps. Makes sense.

kmguru

The stone itself may be dated correctly, however, the good professor is inferring that the etched carvings were machined with precision tools in that timeframe. Specious at best.

As a physicist, Chuvyrov believes only in facts coming from research, and here are the facts. The slab consists of three layers. Solid dolomite forms its 14 cm base. The second layer is the most interesting - it is "made" of diopside glass. That is where the map is actually situated. A 2 mm layer consists of calcium porcelain protects the map from damage. Dr. Chuvyrov notes that the map was not carved by hand. X-rays show that high-precision mechanisms were used to work the stone.

The most intriguing part of it all is why the map was created in the first place. When the center of historical cartography in Wisconsin looked at the map, the Americans pronounced their verdict: a three-dimensional map could only be used for navigational purposes. It could only be made using of aerospace photography. As a matter of fact, work is under way in the United States to create a three-dimensional map of the world; the project is expected to be completed only in 2010, given that the Americans will have to process an enormous mass of numbers.


The key is if they find more of these slabs and do some serious carbon dating or infer the relief itself from the earth movements...

I saw this from paranormal.about.com and mulled over posting something about it. Lauv beat me. Croicky.

Now carbon dating involves measuring how far through the material's half lives are, right? Is it possible that these people didn't really exist millions of years ago but just used old materials and had, for instance, a plaza that was sunken into the ground. You have to wonder where these people went, though, or what happened to them.

Maybe the information is below the Sphinx's feet (somewhere I heard that ground radar had penetrated through the dust and found a chamber down theya that no one had excavated. It is rumored to have as much information inside it as the library at Alexandria.

Originally posted by (Q)
The stone itself may be dated correctly, however, the good professor is inferring that the etched carvings were machined with precision tools in that timeframe. Specious at best.

They did not date the stone because, the stone has been here before life began. what they did it date the biological sample encrusted on it such as the Ecculiomphalus princeps of the Ecculiomphalinae family and came away with the 120 million years. Now if they can find other stones to verify other biologic life forms then that will prove that the relief map was done in that time frame. Then they have to prove that it takes advanced knowledge and space technology to survey the planet to produce the accurate relief map etc. The other part is the layers of the artifact.

Unless it is a hoax, what has been presented here can only be done by an advanced civilization like ours. No such equivalent project has been done recently to this size by NASA (that I know of to 340x340 meters size and broken up to pieces)...

Very interesting indeed. How come mainstream media did not pick it up?

Maybe they haven't picked it up yet. Since at least from my POV you're regarded as a skeptic (for the most part I am too) I'd think that if NASA was doing something big somebody'd be bound to notice.

But wait a second-if these guys are so advanced (a satellite ish photo of earth) why are they drawing their stuff on stones instead of billboards or giant tv screens? It could be, maybe a tradition or something but it's a question that may need considering.

I have sent the information to CNN and TLC/Discovery. Soon we shall know...

The reason someone will do a very large (340X340 meter ) stone is to display it in front of a large dam like hoover dam. Every office of US government has giant maps on the wall. I have a map of earth on my office wall...

The other part is the item that is layered...

Wait a minute...I am not a skeptic for the sake of being a skeptic. I am a classical engineer (by degree and practice) who looks at the available information and infers that are based on sound technology. The difference between me and other arm chair skeptics is that I have access to a sh*t load of bleeding edge information in various subjects that is worth debating....(been there, done that from rocket technology to biotechnology - I review intelectual properties for Fortune 100)

So, I keep an open mind...upto a point...otherwise birds will start making nests....:D

if it's a hoax, it's rich.

if it's not a hoax, we're all idiots

So if this is true maybe we should....hmm..consider the implications. We've found the equivalent of a monolith (for all you arthur c clarke fans). Now what? Is there more? What's going to happen?

And yeah kmguru I think knowing what you're talking about is a plus to being a skeptic. It's actually an adantage that most of us lack:cool:

But do you have stone maps in your offices? Giant stone maps, for instance? They sound pretty rare.

Allright, I'll admit it....

I CREATED THE WORLD! ALL OF YOU MERE MORTALS ARE MERELY MY CREATIONS! MWAHAHAHAAA!

I always suspected, just never could prove that of all people xev is the creator. Well it solves one of the great questions of the universe I guess.

And christ cactus' keyboard sux. Ar I hate it! Can't...type...right...

I always suspected, just never could prove that of all people xev is the creator. Well it solves one of the great questions of the universe I guess.

Yes, dear mortal, you have guessed it!

Now all of Sciforums must bend to my will! First, you must....ummm....damn. I can't think of anything to make you do. Lemme think.

I guess this means we should be getting you some presents, because after allllll you are bored. I suggested Hawaiineriffic shirts, so I believe that after cactus and oedipus and I and like ten other people go see LORD OF THE RINGS in a theatre we can make some tribal sacrifices. After all I know how much you just love those hawaiineriffic shirts, they're just so....so hawaiineriffic!

I guess this means we should be getting you some presents, because after allllll you are bored.

Hey, I ain't Monica.

Actually, I think Hawaiianariffic shirts are a fitting tribute - may I wear my Hawaiiananariffic bikini from last summer?

Oh wait, I'm God, I can do what I want. So I will.

And some laws:

I HEREBY DECLARE THAT ALL TAILGATING SUV DRIVERS ARE TO BE SACRIFICED IN MY HONOR!

Now, back to the topic...

Remember we talked about a speculation that if there were advanced civilization like ours a few million years ago, what kind of artifacts we shall find and if we can find. Did they have satellites or sent probes to deep space? Is there aany item on the moon they left behind. What was Mars like 120 million years ago....

Suppose it is possible, can we indulge a little as to life back then and what might have happened. Did they die because of asteroid impact? Did they genetically modified the dinosaurs? Can you create a flying dinosaurs for transporation and work?

Take away Pollux....

I have a question. If right now all (human, at least) life on earth was cleaned away by, say, an ice age; what would be left as evidence of us being here? What would another human civilization find?

Originally posted by Tyler
I have a question. If right now all (human, at least) life on earth was cleaned away by, say, an ice age; what would be left as evidence of us being here? What would another human civilization find?

That is exactly what we are trying to discuss. "Past Civilization" thread was started to ask such questions, but except a few of us (zion, pollux,...), the topic petered out. Now that we have new information...it would be fun to discuss...

You can email the links to your local newspaper editors and most TV people, so that they can do some investigation to find out if it is a hoax. If not, they can find out more info. I have already emailed to 5 news media orgs and a few of my reporter buddies.

In the mean time, the forum is open to speculate....

If tis is vertified then this is the greatest finding ever. It would also completely change the perspective of our evolution. This date [120mil years] even thrashes my craziest theory tht the earlyest civilization we had was 70milj years ago (other is that 35K years ago). I was refereing to rocks found in SAmerica in which were engraved dinosaurs. And some human leg tracks in stone - tht human was wearing some kind of sandals (lika ancient egyptians and romans) also one very old sceleton which is radoc\active and scientists declared it to be a hoax because it is said to be about 40 milj years old (I'm not sure about those years though). And of course we have found a submerged city by the coast of india. What we need now is tht the results are rechecked and vertified by some labs in the US , France and UK. When/if it is vertyfied then I'll make a BIG party.

I think that if there was an ice age, for example, this would mean that the ocean would recede, meaning that our coastal-ish cities, NYC, LA, London, Tokyo, would still remain and be visible for a very long time. Assuming that disasters didn't continuously hammer the earth I think that another intelligence would grow, but I just have no clue as to how long it would take.

If this stuff is the real deal then it has taken 120 million years as far as we know to evolve into something as intelligent or close to as intelligent as whatever built this stuff. I don't think that our cities would remain after 120 million years, that maybe only the sturdiest non-metal buildings would remain, like maybe the White House, for example.

Which means that there could've been a hellofa lot more there, a shitload of more stuff that has just decayed over such a long period of time. All that remains is what was made out of stone, and unfortunately what was made out of stone was likely rare compared to steel buildings and construction materials that may be beyond us.

And if this stuff is true the next time we go to the moon I think that the story would unfold to something like the Arthur C. Clarke short story 'The Sentinel.' Imagine finding a pyramid on the moon. Think of the ramifications, then I believe you have what is going on right now.

I think pyramid is a recent phenomena on earth compared to what we are talking about. Nothing will last 120 million years unless maintained. Just the oxidation process will eat away everything - unless buried with a cover (lack of oxygen). However the moon story could be different. If the people of yesteryear were as advanced or more than us - they may have left some artifacts there. The most bizarre speculation could be that they themselves may be a transplant from Mars - (The giants in folklore).

One can get carried away just by thinking the possibilities...

I have a problem with the Hindu mythology of Vimanas, multiplanets etc. Assuming they were true - there is no way that can be attributed to 120 million years. Look at our population growth. How can such a story stay alive that long and passed on to the generations? So that could be a whole different can of worms. Unless someone has a good idea, I would not mix the two events.

My thoughts are that Mars had the first life several billion years ago. It evolved. Earth was then terraformed with biological items from Mars. After Mars demise, Earth continued except it did not have the missile technology to protect from later asteroids. Then came the ice age...

now all you have to do is convince those gov guys to make a good missile defence shield for the planet Earth, with fine past examples;)

Actually there are programs within NASA in this area. If NASA can get some proof of work of advanced civilization within our reach (Mars, Moon, Jovian moons) then that project would get big time funding....

The other part I would like to see is creating time capsules that contains information about our civilization and burying them all over the planet and may be on moon to last for 250 million years. We could also build our version of Pyramids with doors that can be opened by an advanced civilization.

The other part I would like to see is creating time capsules that contains information about our civilization and burying them all over the planet and may be on moon to last for 250 million years. We could also build our version of Pyramids with doors that can be opened by an advanced civilization.

This is an excellent idea. I think maybe that putting somthing on the moon is a good idea, maybe in space as well. A history of the world on a compact disc, I wonder how many gigabytes it would take to contain every single aspect of our people, our history, and our culture. We'd like to think that we'll last forever but that may not be realistic.

A ten disc set DVD-ROM will work. But you have to add books and pictures in case they did not develop DVD and went straight to holography. Remember we sent a low-tech phonograph record into space...

Pictographs with how to read is the best way, a progression of technology including photographs will work...

Sample electronic circuits, IC chips, lithium batteries and so on...should be added too...

Originally posted by kmguru
A ten disc set DVD-ROM will work. But you have to add books and pictures in case they did not develop DVD and went straight to holography. Remember we sent a low-tech phonograph record into space...

Pictographs with how to read is the best way, a progression of technology including photographs will work...

Sample electronic circuits, IC chips, lithium batteries and so on...should be added too...

You assume they would have eyes. Or ears. Or any sense organ analogous to those we possess. All in all, too many stupid assumptions in this thread and not enough attention to real evidence.

You guys should pay more attention to what Q is saying. The entire argument for the supposed carvings on this thing is specious. So there was a shell encrusted on the slab. So what? Why assume the carving happened convergent with the shell becoming fixed to the stone? This guy could have dug this thing up and carved it himself. There is ZERO evidence here to get excited about.

Why assume the carving happened convergent with the shell becoming fixed to the stone?

You are right - you think it it is a hoax, so carry on...

Those of us who want to get excited on stupid assumptions - let us indulge in it. Thank you for posting.

I once had a bit of a laugh trying to decypher some of the messages that were sent in previous exploration probes.
Although sending artifacts was all well and good, the whole Binary map of our solar system was a little too.... well... I couldn't read it so I'm sure an alien couldn't.

In truth if your going to teach something to read, or have something at least read what your trying to explain to it. Your going to have to do it with images, not words.
(And NOT BINARY, I mean how many of you are called 10001001000001101011010010011000100, or hear yourself be refered to as that name?)

There is a probability that old written languages could be read, but you would be better off writing some form of greetings in all texts. (namely a repetition of some formal greeting, in languages spoken now and past)

There is a probability though that future probes, will not contain texts written or discs for creatures to play frisbee with (If they have arms to play) But the probe could have a ELF interface and neural net computer that tries to interface with what ever comes into contact with it, through... "Telepathy". Well internal electromagnetic matrixing. (Maybe the future of flight control etc)

this would make more sense because if a being was mostly made of water (no Startrek puns intended) ELF could project holographic imagry through resonating halogens. There of course might be the slight chance that an encountered creature might come to a demise. (That one I wouldn't want to be responsible for.)

At least with such matrixing it might be possible to communicate translation too.

Another point is, if you send out a bunch of artifacts your just creating a TIME CAPSULE more than anything else, and if any alien race managed to get their selves hooked to interstella travel at high speeds, we should be sending objects of the past out like TRANSISTORs, just so they know how to interface with more primative designs.

Exactly...
Most animals have eyes. So pictures depicting flora and fauna and its equivalent language pictographs is the best way to communicate. Imagine a chinese biochemistry book. To understand, one has to learn not only the lanuage but prior science such as math, chemical reactions and a lot of other stuff.

Same with ears - sound of different stuff too....

Then when we have computer algorithm and sensors to decode neural pattern...

Any more news on this map?

Extremely interesting discovery and very revealing! Nothing is better than truth nowadays...

I have a question. If right now all (human, at least) life on earth was cleaned away by, say, an ice age; what would be left as evidence of us being here? What would another human civilization find?


Lots plastic crap, washed up on the beaches.

You know what's funny? This thread is now SIX years old and absolutely nothing has come out of this "amazing discovery!":D

It just goes to show we've got some very gullible people here who will hang their hopes on practically ANY stupid hoax. (Think about it guys - you know who you are!!!!):D

You know what's funny? This thread is now SIX years old and absolutely nothing has come out of this "amazing discovery!":D

Isn't that the way these loons work though, moving from one amazing discovery to the next, and dodging criticism of past claims my merely talking loudly about a new one?

Just like all these prophets of doom. The world never ends, they just make a revised prophecy.

People digest that crap like Mills and Boon novels.

Isn't that the way these loons work though, moving from one amazing discovery to the next, and dodging criticism of past claims my merely talking loudly about a new one?

Just like all these prophets of doom. The world never ends, they just make a revised prophecy.

People digest that crap like Mills and Boon novels.

Yes, that IS a fact.

One thing that perplexing about it is that as the mindless believers in all this garbage leap to the next greatest thing, they never seem to learn from any of their past mistakes.

And we have several right here that are living proof of that sort of thing.

Isn't that the way these loons work though, moving from one amazing discovery to the next, and dodging criticism of past claims my merely talking loudly about a new one?

Just like all these prophets of doom. The world never ends, they just make a revised prophecy.

People digest that crap like Mills and Boon novels.

Do you hold your Mills and Boon novels in one hand while you read them ?

Do you hold your Mills and Boon novels in one hand while you read them ?

Where do you get the notion that I have any? Oh, sorry, you were making a flaccid attempt at a joke. Try harder.