Former Al-Azhar Fatwa Committee Head, Mufti 'Atiyyah Saqr, who in the past issued a Fatwa calling the Jews "apes and pigs", describes the Jews' 20 Bad Traits As Described in the Qur'an

MEMRI (http://www.memri.org/bin/latestnews.cgi?ID=SD69104)

or Islam Online (http://www.islamonline.net/fatwaapplication/english/display.asp?hFatwaID=68521) (original article)

just a little excerpt:

1. They used to fabricate things and falsely ascribe them to Allah.
2. They love to listen to lies.
3. Disobeying Almighty Allah and never observing His commands.
5. Hiding the truth and standing for misleading.
7. Hypocrisy.
9. Wishing evil for people and trying to mislead them.
10. They feel pain to see others in happiness and are gleeful when others are afflicted with a calamity.
11. They are known of their arrogance and haughtiness.
etc...


all the 'traits' are followed by quotes from the Qur'an and comments by the Mufti.

he says that Jews do have some good qualities, but the bad ones greatly outweigh the good ones
well, at least he is impartial :m:

Al-Azhar is a religious university in Egypt (a country that has had peace with Israel for 25 years) where the highest Sunni authority resides. this guy used to be the head of the Fatwa commity!

this is what the "mainstream" of a "friendly" country is like
what are the radical Muftis like? makes one wonder
---

so, dear Sunni Muslims, this guy used to be your version of the Pope, or something similar. what do you think about this? should you believe him? should you do something about this?

what about the non-Muslims?
the Mufti does have some convincing arguments in the there :m:

It never ceases to amaze me how a religion can institutionalize hatred

It is ironic that when they are describing jews, they are describing themselves (if you look at the little excerpt).

I wonder how people can be so blind.

so true spurious, so true

Muslims hate Christians, Jews & Hindus. But they love bashing & demonizing Jews the most.

Thanks to ISLAM?

before this gets closed down, can someone Muslim respond to this please?

PM?

before this gets closed down, can someone Muslim respond to this please?

PM?

you know, I used to like you, sort of think that you are okay....Why do you hate muslims so much? In a dire time of need when the jews were suffering from the holocaust and denied entry to the good old America. When they were fried all over europe in ovens, When their ships were circuling frantically around the Florida port sand noone gave them a hand, they felt safe in Palestine between the arabs....Go figure how they stab the only hand that was offered to them in the time of need.

otheadp, your prejudice have absolutely no basis. If it makes you feel happy, I have jews in my anscestors and through the motherline. Jews were always safest in the arabic world, they intermarried, held businesses, ect. The problem of the jews lies not in the fact that others hates them, it lies in the truth that they HATE ALL OTHERS INCLUDING THEMSELVES.

Bullshit.

The problem is muslims characterize non-believers as satan or evil jinn, unworthy of life or respect.

HATE FOR JEWS IS NOTHING TO DO WITH ISLAM and JEWS were PERSECUTED LONGE BEFORE THE QURAN WAS SENT DOWN

no the problem is the jews themselves. i have no problem with jews its just the way some of the buisness men act.

it is a sad fact that jews have been persecuted EVERYWHERE they go. even BEFORE the revelation of the Quran. the Romans in the 2nd century kicked them out of their land. also they persecuted them, threw eggs and rubbish on them, made them wear pointy witch like hats.

we all no what Hitler did.

as hitler did these things NO ONE cared. the rest of the world let Hitler do his sick regime for over 5 years, it was only after Hitler started attacking countries the rest of the world relised they were under threat by Hitler so they had a war.

the only place were jews have ever been safe is in Muslim countires (not anymore, not after the jacked Palestine in 1947).

like i said about Business men, people were often jealous of Jews aswell becasue of the business power and becasue of the power alot of them are stingy (im not blaming the religon for this, im saying becasue of the power they have). did you realsie the own big buisnesses like Coke, Mcdonalds, Maks And Spencers, Nestle, The Times News, etc. every barcods with 729 is from israel.

Bullshit.

The problem is muslims characterize non-believers as satan or evil jinn, unworthy of life or respect.

Bull shit back at you....and pile higher and deeper the brown sauce.

It's not my problem that you like to fish in mucky water and surround yourself with failure and dishonesty. If you have wished to see islam and muslims in the correct light you would have done so, but obviously, you are in this to confirm your ill conceptions and not to clear them.

Why do you hate muslims so much?
i have many religious Muslim friends. i don't hate them. only those who try to destroy me.

When [Jews] were fried all over europe in ovens, When their ships were circuling frantically around the Florida port sand noone gave them a hand, they felt safe in Palestine between the arabs
2 facts:
1) the Muslim authority in Palestine during WWII met Hitler, studied his Final Solution, and planned to build extermination camps in Palestine. it was no feeding hand, thank you very much
2) during WWII the Brits actually restricted Jewish immigration to Palestine. Jews had to be smuggled in for the most part by underground Jewish groups in Palestine and abroad

your prejudice have absolutely no basis
what prejudice?

Jews were always safest in the arabic world
1) in relative terms. anything is safer than Inquisition
2) only when they 'behaved' and paid their Jizziyah

JEWS were PERSECUTED LONGE BEFORE THE QURAN WAS SENT DOWN
i guess this explains or excuses the article i posted? :m:

every barcods with 729 is from israel.
??? please elaborate

i don't hate them. only those who try to destroy me.

You have surrounded yourselves with enemies..You have made up your own enemies from scratch. You love enemosities. You live on rivals, you flourish on disagreements. You think that peace is the equivalent of laziness and unproductivity. You live by the same rule that causes you to be victimized. Israel will never know peace and history will repeat itself. I pity you and your country.



1) the Muslim authority in Palestine during WWII met Hitler, studied his Final Solution, and planned to build extermination camps in Palestine. it was no feeding hand, thank you very much


Never happened. You bite the hand that feeds you. Ultimate ingratitude...Typical.

keep dreaming up these scenarios and they may actually happen. Duel on negativity and incite hatred...Teach your kids that they are hated and that they are different. Put yourself on a pedestale and surround yourself with walls....The more you are united, the more you will stick out, the easier it is to eliminate you.

2) during WWII the Brits actually restricted Jewish immigration to Palestine. Jews had to be smuggled in for the most part by underground Jewish groups in Palestine and abroad


Do you blame them? How would you feel, if we started allowing arabs to migrate to Israel in large numbers and impose their language and government.

what prejudice?


That one right under your nose hairs. But your nose is very large to see it.

Jews were always safest in the arabic world
1) in relative terms. anything is safer than Inquisition
2) only when they 'behaved' and paid their Jizziyah


Palestine never imposed Jizziyah on anyone. Many palestians are christians and they don't pay a dime extra. You imagination are wild, again, convince yourself that you are right at all costs, even if it means making up stories.

Bull shit back at you....and pile higher and deeper the brown sauce.
As a Jew, and a friend of several Israelis, I know for certain that we neither hate ourselves, or all others.
If you have wished to see islam and muslims in the correct light you would have done so, but obviously, you are in this to confirm your ill conceptions and not to clear them.
The problem is the correct light was more disturbing than I could have imagined. I recognize that there are many moderate muslims, especially in the west, that want peace and freedom of religion, but feats of mental gymnastics are required to do this and ignore the Koran, which says, among other things, not to befriend Jews.


were PERSECUTED LONGE BEFORE THE QURAN WAS SENT DOWN

no the problem is the jews themselves.
Black people were persecuted too, does that mean there is something wrong with them? Of course not.

like i said about Business men, people were often jealous of Jews aswell becasue of the business power and becasue of the power alot of them are stingy (im not blaming the religon for this, im saying becasue of the power they have). did you realsie the own big buisnesses like Coke, Mcdonalds, Maks And Spencers, Nestle, The Times News, etc. every barcods with 729 is from israel.
Did you know about the historical edict that no christian could lend money? Jews stepped into this business, and people resent them for it, does that make any sense? Somehow Jews, after making money through their own work, are supposed to hand it out to all the lazy people? Others are just as stingy, when you know how hard it is to make money, you don't waste it! Other words for it are effeciency, thriftiness, strategy. As a minority with limited power, money was important to have stability, and to care for their own people, since no one else did. Jews know the value of education, and as a result, have become successful businessmen, this is no different than what everyone else wants. It is incidental that some business owners are Jewish, plenty are not. Do I have to mention the number of Jews with Nobel Prizes, compared to their percentage of the population?

You love enemosities. You live on rivals, you flourish on disagreements. You think that peace is the equivalent of laziness and unproductivity. You live by the same rule that causes you to be victimized.

anti (http://www.us-israel.org/jsource/myths/mf2.html#g)-Semitism (http://www.us-israel.org/jsource/myths/mf15.html#a) thrives on sciforums, as it did in Palestine's mandatory / pre-mandatory period, just as it does in Israel's best friend-nation in the middle east (see 1st post)

you Duel on negativity and incite hatred...Teach your kids that they are hated and that they are different. Put yourself on a pedestale and surround yourself with walls....The more you are united, the more you will stick out, the easier it is to eliminate you.
i could refute your points easily, but what is most troublesome is that you say "you" ... i.e. "all of you Jews"

then you say (or imply) "because of these things that you do, you demonstrate those 20 traits"
or are you going to contradict yourself and renounce that racist islamist vomit that the former highest authority in the Sunni sect spewed? doubtful.

what prejudice?
------------------
That one right under your nose hairs. But your nose is very large to see it.

i'm still waiting -- "what prejudice", you racist sharmuta?

Palestine never imposed Jizziyah on anyone.
1) that's because there was never a kingdom / nation-state called 'Palestine'
2) we were talking about the Arab world in general imposing Jizziyah
3) we're talking about the Jews' 20 traits, not about palestinians... stay on topic

i'm still waiting -- "what prejudice", you racist sharmuta?


The prejudice of your double life.. I can't expand too much on that because you're not worth it....It will be like blowing in a torn balloon. If you want to get a hint of what I'm talking about, consider your biggest fear.....What is your biggest fear? The fear of ALL ISRAELI JEWS.... It's death...because deep down you know that you are no more than maggot meat.

And you call yourself JEWS....meaning guided??? Isn't there a philosophical paradox or circular reasoning with someone who claim to be guided...How can a guided person need god's guidance afterall...You obviously don't need god, because jews believe that they are GOD...Don't you.

I don't need to callyou a racist Ibn Elsharmouta, because just calling you a jew is the biggest insult I can find in my dictionary....You on the other hand, brush up on your dragatory terminology, because your stupid arabic street language is not very impressive.

i see some female mutilation is in order :D

i don't know whether this is funny or tragic... but this specimen in the post above is a bikini-wearing Muslim (i.e. on the bottom part of the fundie spectrum).

she is also an educated career woman

yet, her education and non-fundie-ness are completely non-factors when it comes to blood libels, racism, hate and prejudice against "The Jews"

it is frightening to imagine what's on the other side of the spectrum

[some graphic examples for those with weak imagination: 1 (http://www.dafka.org/ContentFiles/videos/m-mpg.asx), 2 (http://www.masada2000.com/Execution%20-Russian.asf), 3 (http://www.masada2000.com/impalement.asx)]

i see some female mutilation is in order :D

i don't know whether this is funny or tragic... but this specimen in the post above is a bikini-wearing Muslim (i.e. on the bottom part of the fundie spectrum).

she is also an educated career woman


I see absolutely no difference between you and a fundie muslim. You are all below pond scum...Ugly looking mutilated beasts.....So disfigured by your ideologies. There's nothing innocent or natural about you......And Any dirt that I get for allowing myself to further talk to below pond scum material is well deserved.

before this gets closed down, can someone Muslim respond to this please?Perhaps you should reconsider the practice of intentionally attempting to start a flame war.

This topic is a fallacy; your argument doesn't address whether or not the Mufti's propaganda is true or false. It's just a springboard for more of your petty racism.

Good show, Otheadp. What the world needs now really is another poster boy for racism.

Take a bow.

intentionally attempting to start a flame war
are you being an idiot on purpose?

your argument doesn't address whether or not the Mufti's propaganda is true or false
it goes without saying that it is false, as he paints all Jews with the same disgusting brush and then says that the Qur'an "proves it"

infact, Tiassa, once again you expose your racism
you're not condemning the Mufti, but you're condemning me for responding to this, and even entertain the idea that his propaganda may be true!

the Mashiakh will come before you condemn any anti-Semetic filth
and you have the gull to call me racist.

you are the poster boy for Racism Under the Guise of Liberalism

your[/i] racism
you're not condemning the Mufti, but you're condemning me for responding to this, and even entertain the idea that his propaganda may be true!


Let's examine your logic, although I don't think there is any.

Are you saying that this fair play, that I can go right now and bring any exerpt out of a jewish rabbi or a Talmud and post for worthy discussion. Please do tell, because I have tons of questions about the Talmud....and I don't think there is enough space to post them all.

Grow up, shutting up for a while may speed up the process.

the topic was not the Qur'an, but those who enterpret it

particularly those that are considered 'mainstream'. i did not sample a guy who's sitting in a cave in Afghanistan

what i pointed out is that the very-mainstream elements, of those countries friendly with Israel, are saying this.

if a KKK guy would say some bullshit about blacks, you could dismiss it as 'well, it's typical of KKK because they're racists'
but if the Pope, or the leader of the Anglican Church says this, we have a problem...

you've yet to condemn the Mufti's bullshit, Flores

are you being an idiot on purpose?Actually, that's my question to you.it goes without saying that it is false, as he paints all Jews with the same disgusting brush and then says that the Qur'an "proves it"Ah. I see. So racist propaganda that you are not prepared to support in any substantial way is necessarily true?you're not condemning the Mufti, but you're condemning me for responding to this, and even entertain the idea that his propaganda may be true!I'm not condemning you for responding; I'm very disappointed in the dishonesty of your response, though, and do not consider it educated, well-intended, or substantial. I make this judgment based not only on the inadequacy of your topic post in response to the Mufti, but also in light of your consistent history of posting this sort of racist trash.

Additionally, of course that list is true; but what you fail to account for is that it's true for any of the Abramic monotheisms, as well as just about any other religion.

Fabrications falsely ascribed to the ultimate reality? Preference for lies? Disobeying self-affirmed standards? Misleading? Hypocrisy? Wishing ill? Schedenfreude? Arrogance and haughtiness?

Fine. I don't see how that separates the Jews from the Muslims from the Christians from anybody else, except perhaps some Buddhists. In other words, great--someone has made a list of bad things about Jews; some think that's a reflection of Islam; the reality is that these traits are common to the current human condition.

The Pope himself responded to the faithful: The Church has apologized for persecuting scientists; the Church accepts Darwinism--it's quite obvious that Catholic dogma did not, over the years, find agreement with all Catholics.

Muslims are humans, too. It is only your racism that compels you to treat them otherwise.

In the meantime, you shouldn't go around baiting people for fights. You don't seem too rise to the occasion when you get one. Especially when it's not the one you're hoping to have.the Mashiakh will come before you condemn any anti-Semetic filth
and you have the gull to call me racist.You are a racist, Otheadp. There's no question about it. It's directly included in your arguments; it's implied by your arguments. You bleed your disgust for things not Jewish.you are the poster boy for Racism Under the Guise of Liberalism You're on.

I invite you to demonstrate that.

In fact, I even welcome the debate.

In the meantime, I suppose it's finally time to break out this piece of downright ugly propaganda:

http://www.sexuallymutilatedchild.org/mohel-1a.jpg

This is a picture that is often used by neo-Nazis to depict the savagery of the Jews. What it shows is a rabbi sucking blood from a newly-circumcised penis.

Gripping, eh? Ugly, eh? There is actually an explanation behind this picture, Otheadp, but you're the one who wants to make these debates about all Jews, which includes vampiric fellatio.

Now ... as I understand it from Jews ... this picture has nothing to do with mainstream Judaism, and the defense is that what we see is an obscure practice not recognized by most Jews.

Your need to make these debates about all Jews, and your ill-advised use of spectacular propaganda images actually works to support the neo-Nazi assertion that Jews are all vampiric c@cksuckers.

So remember, you bloodsucking child molester, you are the one who wanted to make this about all Jews. If you wish to take a more reasonable stance regarding the Jews, two things of interest to you will happen:

• You'll find people a lot less repulsed by your racism
• You will no longer be undermining efforts by others to prevent posters--PM, for instance--from broadly slamming "Jewish" ideas

It's something you might wish to consider. I mean, I know approximately what he means when he writes a vague denunciation of "Jews." I don't agree with it any more than the abusive application of "Muslim" and "Islamic" to describe other atrocious behavior in the world. (Which is, as I read PM's posts, part of the point; but somehow our oft-bombastic friend has managed to be too subtle for many around here.) But it's hard for moderators or other posters to make the case that it's not about "Jews," but about "Israel," when a Jewish representative insists on making this about all Jews, that case is harder to make to critics of Israeli/Jewish political issues.

Additionally, it is your insistence that this is about all Jews which makes our discussion problematic; I actually don't believe that, but I'm deferring to the Jewish representative in the discussions on that. I found it quite odd that you exscind from Judaism those Jews who disagree with you, but nonetheless, when the rhetoric is about all of Israel, and Jewish supporters of Israel turn it into a race issue . . . you've brought that back to yourself.

Start facing honestly those parts of the Jewish heritage that you don't wish to represent you. It will ease your effort in carrying out these discussions, and will give your issues greater substance if you are perceived to be an honest representative.

At any rate, it's showtime, Otheadp. Paint me a poster boy.

look buddy
i'm not gonna indulge you in your self centered ego trip
and i'm not going to try prove a racist he's a racist as it is as futile as pissing against the wind
besides, i have better things to do than combing through your posts all day so i could cater to your ego

I'm very disappointed in the dishonesty of your response, though, and do not consider it educated, well-intended, or substantial.
and i'm very heartbroken over your nonapproval, though it wasn't unexpected

Additionally, of course that list is true;
he didn't say "some Jews" or "Israelis" or "some Israelis" or "only Zionists" or "only religious ones" or "only Likud"
he said Jews. that's plain and simple enough even for you to undersand
and you're giving him support
basically, that's all the 'proof' i need to expose you, although no exposing on my part is necessary as you do a fine job doing it yourself
me making it about "all Jews"?
who is it, do you suppose, is he talking about?

the reality is that these traits are common to the current human condition
with that i agree. but the Mufti, and not i, said this specifically about "The Jews"

it's finally time to break out this piece of downright ugly propaganda
what you "broke out" is not propaganda. this practise is common (although not too common)
now, saying that "all Jews" do it, would be propaganda

vampiric fellatio
now that, is propaganda, and a very hateful selection of words (more proof?)

now, while in my posts i condemn some Muslims, the ones who are trying to destroy me and hate my society, i respect Islam - the one that is not used as a justification for this (http://www.dafka.org/ContentFiles/videos/m-mpg.asx)
but you'd just love for me to say "all Muslims" wouldn't you? you bloody racist filth

you exscind from Judaism those Jews who disagree with you
an example would be nice
if you'll bring up Neturei Karta, i have a right to disagree with their philosophies, but not once have i said "they are not true Jews" or "they diviate from Judaism", although you'd love for me to say so
what the hell do you know about Judaism anyway, you dhimmi?

You'll find people a lot less repulsed by your racism
the racist is preaching me about racism! lmao!

I know approximately what [PM] means when he writes a vague denunciation of "Jews."
no buddy. you know exactly what he means, you heina

I don't agree with it any more than the abusive application of "Muslim" and "Islamic" to describe other atrocious behavior in the world.
there's "Muslim" and "Islamic", and there's "islamist" (notice the lower-case 'i')
that's where the distinction lies. Islam is "good", while "islamism" is the abuse of Islam. that is what makes me and so many others sick, although apparently you're just fine with it, and consider islamism and Islam as one and the same

our oft-bombastic friend
so he's "oft-bombastic". i wonder what you call the Mufti from the 1st post?
you remind me of Paula Zahn from CNN using a million and one words except "lied" when talking about Bush ("misled", "misstated", etc.)

it's not about "Jews," but about "Israel,"
more shit spewed out of your heina mouth
so now "all Israelis" is a fair target for racist vomit?
are you some sort of interpreter for PM? it's like when Bush says one of his bushisms, his spokespeople run out to 'translate' it to normal-speak

the thing is, Bush is probably a dislexic, while PM means every word he says, exactly as he says it, you damn apologist heina

Start facing honestly those parts of the Jewish heritage that you don't wish to represent you
more racism from you
man, i'm fuck*ng drowning in it by now

ok man, you've convinced me. i surrender. i'll be more honest. i accept the Mufti's judgement!