Just some topics for discussion really quick, just getting some information on what people will say when questions are asked...

- How does the human mind work, in your views and knownledge.
- Why do we have mental disorders, and what causes them
- What parts of the brain contribute to us having a usable "mind" and databases of knowledge / memories.

Simple answer, but relavent. We seperate biology from psychology and neuroscience, but in the end how does mental illness differ from a physical ginetic defect? IMO all of it is related to the "building blocks" of the Human Genome.

the human mind is a complex system of biological form correllating with electrical field, correllating with different amounts of organic chemicals in the brain. signals are sent and received by synapses on the neurons (i think) and these signals are in the form of electricity. the electricity makes up an electromagnetic field around the brain, oscillating with every change within the brain. the cellular form of the brain allows for the passage of electrical signals, which are acting on and being affected by stored proteins (the physical form of our memories). the chemical component of the mind is affected by these things, but affect them in turn as well. the organic, the electrical, and the chemical are all acting on each other in a process that creates what we percieve as consciousness. each has an effect on our emotions and how we deal with the environment around us.

Just some topics for discussion really quick, just getting some information on what people will say when questions are asked...

- How does the human mind work, in your views and knownledge.
- Why do we have mental disorders, and what causes them
- What parts of the brain contribute to us having a usable "mind" and databases of knowledge / memories.


The human mind is the “Supreme Comedy” that is funny because it cannot work. The mind can no more think than can the words here tell a story. This was realized over 5000 years ago in the “Supreme Science,” the “study of thoughts.” And 5000 years later physics tells us the exact same story.

The mind is just a collection of thoughts, like a molecule is just a collection of atoms.
Kundalini (physics’ quantum-gap, black-hole) makes the mind malfunction and so doctors call it every mental-disease in their books.

and these words are just the BS that helps make the comedy called mind even more “supreme.”

disregard what RoyLennigan said.
- How does the human mind work, in your views and knownledge.
that's a big question. I'll just say there's nothing immaterial, mystical, divine, supernatural, etc. about it.
Why do we have mental disorders, and what causes them
mutations (tay-sachs' (sp?) disease, etc), deficiencies (not enough of certain vitamins or whatever... also too much of others) etc. cause your brain to malfunction... hundreds of things could cause that.
What parts of the brain contribute to us having a usable "mind" and databases of knowledge / memories.
well, of course all the brain contributes somehow, but the cerebral cortex is mainly where the higher thinking takes place.
as for memories, they're stored in the hippocampus, not in proteins or anything, but in dendrite connections (connections between neurons).

as for what roy said... the gaps between neurons are the synapses, and neurons send messages between neurons through neurotransmitters which are proteins (I think) The electricity part comes in the form of charged particles being expelled/taken in (depending what it's doing I guess)... but that's in individual neurons... I THINK when a neuron recieves neurotransmitters, they cause the neuron to expell certain molecules or whatever and that causes the electrical charge that runs down the neuron and then tells the neurotransmittes to go to the next neuron... but I'm not 100% sure.

oh and about the mental disorders... imbalances in neurotransmitters, or how many receptors the neuron has, etc.. lead to mental disorders such as depression and stuff. the imbalances can have genetic basis for them, foods, etc.
eating certain things can help with that... i think pasta makes the endorphin levels go up or something which causes you to feel good and relaxed, meat makes you more focused, etc.

I saw on TV about this woman who had chronic depression and what she needed was a diet change... she wasn't getting a good diet.

Did the diet change work for her?

yep, hence the "what she needed" part... as in for her depression... :-P

:-p

...I THINK when a neuron recieves neurotransmitters, they cause the neuron to expell certain molecules or whatever and that causes the electrical charge that runs down the neuron and then tells the neurotransmittes to go to the next neuron... but I'm not 100% sure.The neuron is normally negative about 70mV in the inside relative to the electrolyte outside. This is due (mainly) to the fact tha Na+ ions are pumped out all the time. (so called "sodium pump" action) When an electrical pulse travels down the axon, there is a wave of re-entry of Na+ ions traveling down the axon. (The interior may even get slightly positive briefly after it passes but usually the internal potential only approaches zero, but remains negative.)

The nerve will be unable to send a new pulse (called the refractory period) for approximately 0.001 sec or longer. Thus it is more your "what ever" rather than "to expell certain molecules ... that causes the electrical charge that runs down the neuron." I.e. it is a rapid influx of (mainly) Na+ ions.

Just some topics for discussion really quick, just getting some information on what people will say when questions are asked...

- How does the human mind work, in your views and knownledge.
- Why do we have mental disorders, and what causes them
- What parts of the brain contribute to us having a usable "mind" and databases of knowledge / memories.

people need to be carefull selecting 1 partner.

regards,

loki

Just some topics for discussion really quick, just getting some information on what people will say when questions are asked...

- How does the human mind work, in your views and knownledge.
- Why do we have mental disorders, and what causes them
- What parts of the brain contribute to us having a usable "mind" and databases of knowledge / memories.
the human mind operates on a electro-chemical basis
mental disorders are genetic(missing genes,enzymes) or chemical (lead poisoning)

hmmmmyeah, well that's leopold's beliefs. mine differ dramically from that
i consider such views materialistic. te idea that brain produces mind or consciousness. itis a belief and is notproven, though some scientists will argue it is. Howeve it ISN'T. i suggest you look at the current 'Hard Problem' in cognitive science (David Chalmers)---summarized it is hihlighting te ongling'mind/body problem' and or 'mind/brain problem' in philosoph ad science. bascially that neuroscienceis finding out more and more about operations of brain, behaviour, but NOT about SUBJECTIVE consciousness. How it is you, me, etc FEEL the unique way we do.

ah, thanks Billy
hmmmmyeah, well that's leopold's beliefs.
no, they are facts (don't start nitpicking, you know what I mean)
te idea that brain produces mind or consciousness. itis a belief and is notproven
Howeve it ISN'T
sigh. it is proven. what do you know? you can't even type half a sentence right.
frankly I can't understand what you're trying to say. lol

ah, thanks Billy

no, they are facts (don't start nitpicking, you know what I mean)

me))))))no i dpon't know what you mean. what am i, a mindreader. explain what you mean

sigh. it is proven. what do you know? you can't even type half a sentence right.
frankly I can't understand what you're trying to say. lol
never met you before yet can see yer ignorant. now thats not bad goin for a bad typist ..is it?

All answers to the questions initially posted on this forum can be found on the above thread: "Humans have a sixth sense and I can prove it."

The human mind works like this:

sensory receptors > thalamus > cotex > complex cortical integration > consciousness

"Sensory information is relayed to the cortex by the thalamus. Parts of the cortex that receive this information are called primary sensory areas. Other areas receive impulses from the primary sensory areas and integrate the information coming in from different types of [sensory] receptors."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cerebral_cortex

"The most important function of the cortex from the point of view of consciousness studies is that it creates models. These models are most easily experienced when there is a lack of sensory input such as in dreaming, day dreaming, lucid dreaming or experiencing imaginary speech (thinking).

The parts of the brain that deal with imagining (modelling) things are also the parts that deal with perception. Internally generated experiences share some, but not all, of the phenomenal properties of actual perception. There is also considerable overlap between the areas used for imaginary speech (thought) and actual speech, areas dealing with the control of sensation and of the tongue etc. being used in actual speech but not in imagined speech. Investigations into the activity of single neurons in humans and also found that the brain activity evoked by visual imagination overlapped that which occurs upon direct stimulation by the same image. Our conscious experience consists of the output of the cortical modelling processes. http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Consci..._Neuroscience_1

It goes like this: sensation to sensory receptors to the thalumus then to the cortex, then widespread cortical activity gives you consciousness.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10575555/

funny, here's another consciousness related one...
no soul needed.
http://dsc.discovery.com/news/briefs/20051219/awarerobot_tec.html

...The human mind works like this:
sensory receptors > thalamus > cotex > complex cortical integration > consciousness....First correction: The processing of smells and taste is not cortical, but mainly in the phylogentically older parts of the brain and part of the reason why they typically provoke more emotion as that is mainly there also. Therefore, what you assert is an excessively broad claim, but 3 out of 5 right is not too bad. :)

Secondly: There is no evidence for "cortical integration." Quite the contrary - the cortical processing is mainly to extract and separate "features" and send them to separate areas of the brain for additional processing. Approximately 20 different "features" of the visual* field are extracted and many are processed in different tissue, with no one offering the slightest suggestion as to how or where they are ever "re-assembled" to give the unified perceptual experience we all have. Your "cortical integration" is pure fabrication. Does not occur.

Last paragraph, in part, page159 of Francis Crick's book, The astonishing hypothesis:

"Although there are many different visual regions {of the brain}, each of which analyzes visual input in different and complex ways, so far we can locate no single region in which the neural activity corresponds to the vivid picture of the world we see in front of our eyes. ...In short, we can see how the brain takes the picture apart, but we do not yet understand how it puts together. {The italics is in the original!} How does it construct the well-organized and detailed visual awareness....?"

again on page 204:

"There appears to be no single cortical area whose activity corresponds to the global content of our visual awareness."

Again: Your "cortical integration" is pure fabrication. Does not occur.
________________________________________________
*The best understood sense is probably vision and it is the most important one. (That humans accept erroneous visual information as fact, even about where their own hand is, has been shown in studies using a curtain to prevent direct vision and a short delay video tape loop that is showing where their hand was etc. - That is we are very visual creatures. "Seeing is believing" is more true than most realize.)

First correction: The processing of smells and taste is not cortical, but mainly in the phylogentically older parts of the brain and part of the reason why they typically provoke more emotion as that is mainly there also. Therefore, what you assert is an excessively broad claim, but 3 out of 5 right is not too bad. :)

Secondly: There is no evidence for "cortical integration." Quite the contrary - the cortical processing is mainly to extract and separate "features" and send them to separate areas of the brain for additional processing. Approximately 20 different "features" of the visual* field are extracted and many are processed in different tissue, with no one offering the slightest suggestion as to how or where they are ever "re-assembled" to give the unified perceptual experience we all have. Your "cortical integration" is pure fabrication. Does not occur.

Last paragraph, in part, page159 of Francis Crick's book, [I]The astonishing hypothesisYes. Correct. The processing of smells and tastes and most all of our sensory input goes first into the thalamus. From the thalamus it is processed, and immediately relaid to the cortex. Cortical integration of all this is what produces consciousness. The entire "visual" thalamus and cortex region can be excised - elimininated - and we still have consciousness. Vision, or any visual receptors or network, is definitely not necessary for consciousness.

While you look for scientific proof to prove me wrong, I will look for scientific proof to prove what I state, if I haven't already supplied it already. Is that a deal?

.... Vision, or any visual receptors or network, is definitely not necessary for consciousness.
While you look for scientific proof to prove me wrong, I will look for scientific proof to prove what I state, if I haven't already supplied it already. Is that a deal?Do not waste your time searching. I know blind people are conscious. :D

In people with normal sight, vision is the primary sense used to understand their environment, and they trust it even when it conflicts with valid data from the other senses. (For example, in a movie, you think the words come out the actor's mouth, even if from a speaker on the side wall.)

There is little point in my discussion of consciousness with you. Your mind is closed. You define consciousness as "sensory experience" and assert, contrary to evidence, that it disappears if all sensory stimulus is cut off, despite the many experiments with subjects in dark, water-filled, chambers, wrapped in foam rubber pads to prevent (at least greatly reduce)* tactile sensations with ears plugged, etc.
______________________________________
*any steady pressure on the tactile sensor is conscious initially but soon disappears from consciousness. All the sensory systems greatly suppress, if not become totally oblivious to, any constant input, unless you consciously decide to "pay attention" to that input.
For example, assuming you are sitting in a chair in front of your computer as you read this, you were oblivious to the steady pressure on your buttocks until I mentioned this fact.
In my more immature days, I sometimes delighted in annoying people by taking about how their tongue was growing fat in their mouths, making them aware of their tongue pressing against their teeth etc. (Do this for less than five minutes or they are likely to hit you, even if chocking on their tongue.) Thus, the foam rubber does even remove the tactile inputs, most of the time.

*Hellen Keller was without both sight and hearing and often without any taste or smell inputs, and quietly sitting in a chair (So no tactile inputs while she was concentrating on her next speech or paper etc., and not paying attention to her suppressed tactile sense) I.e. She had NO sensory inputs, so according to your many posts about consciousness, she was not conscious, but none-the-less her audience later enjoyed the speech that unconscious body composed! :p

However, there is little point in presenting evidence about consciousness to a closed mind, so I will not search for it - No deal.

I agree with you,. Thanks. Vision is the primary perception, but...

I define consciousness as far as what sensory receptors are able to pass through the thalamus to be integrated into "cortical integration." Cortical integration is consciousness. Do you disagree with this?

Define cortical integration. Describe its mechanism. Identify the portions of the brain where these mechanisms are employed. Provide references to support these contentions.

I agree with you,. Thanks. Vision is the primary perception, but...I define consciousness as far as what sensory receptors are able to pass through the thalamus to be integrated into "cortical integration." Cortical integration is consciousness. Do you disagree with this?No, I DO NOT AGREE.
Consciousness can and does exist without any integration of sensory inputs, as in he case of Helen Keller, quietly seated in her chair, planning her next speech, oblivious to all the steady tactile inputs (like you are oblivious to your tongue touching your teeth, or chair pressing on your buttocks, until your attention is directed to it, etc.) in a room free of all smells and tasting nothing. I.e. Not one sense is she “integrating” as she plans her talk.

Consciousness can not be easily defined, but is not just the simple integration of the senses. It can be, and is always in my view, internally generated, with or without sensory input. If really deep in thought, even vital senses can not register, like forgetting to eat, etc.

Certainly cortex is necessary for consciousness, but most (if not all) of what is know about cortical functions, (especially vision, which I know more about than any other sense) is best described as the opposite of "integration" - Namely different aspects of the sensory input are split off and sent to different neural tissue for addition processing.

Did you not read my quotes from Francis Crick to this effect? - Especially the one where he clearly states there is no neurological evidence to support the idea these segregated features are ever reassembled? (your "integrated") This is the main reason I suggest my real-time simulation model in parietal cortex. - It at least can be a neurological foundation for the fact we perceive a blue ball etc. despite the fact the "blue" is processed in V5 and the shape mainly in V2 and the motion in V3, if memory serves me, - all quite separated tissue. It also explains why there are more neural connections from the parietal cortex to the visual cortex than coming form the eyes via the LGN of the thalamus. - See next paragraph’s ”checklist idea.” (A totally unexplained mystery for standard theory.)

It is obvious that we experience an integrated copy of our senses, but the senses appear to be fractionated into a set of different features and never “integrated.” In the simulation model this is done for the same reason that a pilot used as checklist (a complex task, like keeping the real time simulation faithful to external world or confirming that a plane is flight worthy, is best done by checking, feature by feature./)

You have not read the simulation model, so you say, but without something like it, which compensate for the approximately 0.3 second of neural delays via several synaptic transfers, I would like to hear your explanation as to how one can play a fast game of pin-pong, if consciousness / perception of an integrated world must "emerge" or be "integrated" after many synaptic delays of earlier processing stages in widely separated neural tissue which separate /extract "features" like motion, color, location and shape and send them, via know pathways, to different tissue, never to be integrated again.

You really need to go a little deeper in to neural physiology, at least for vision where it is very well known, before postulating “integration of the senses” as consciousness.

BTW, unless memory fails me, the olfactory sense does not go thru the thalamus, but I hope you will check my memory and correct if wrong. It also does not cross to the contra lateral side of brain as the others do, in part.

Bill Gates knows better than any doctor how human mind works. Drugs, alcohol and many more things give us mental disorders, it's like a virus. To much of information's make us suffer.