Listening to the debate, right now, I'm finding myself struck with fear again at the usage of the term "The Homeland" . . . . when they say we need to protect the ''homeland'', how is that easier to say or more meaningful than saying ''we need to protect AMERICA"?

This ''homeland'' word play is deeply disturbing to me in a way that is difficult to pin down. I don't want to be so simplistic as to say it roots from the old Nazi "Fatherland" terminology, though that is a disturbing parallel. But it seems some kind of psychological propoganda manipulation to try and plant a new word for America, instead of just using ''America'', or "USA".

Any thoughts?

Many people have noticed the same thing. Look at the laws that have been passed since 9/11 and look at how they have affected our rights. Most notably, the Patriot Act. There have also been several smaller piecez of legislation to limit our use of the Betamax decision. The INDUCE act was only dropped because it is so close to election time.

The words from the goverment lately our 'trust us, we know what is best'.....

Americans need to understand the difference between patriotism and nationalism. A patriot loves his land and his people. A nationalist loves his government. The patriot voluntarily does what is necessary to protect his land and his people. A nationalist blindly obeys his government.

~ Charley Reese

Most americans don't even realize that the Constitution is anti-nationalism.

Yeah I've always kind of disliked that term too. I hadn't considering the "fatherland" think but yeah, maybe that's why I don't like it. I would guess that the term is used because some focus group determined that it raised numbers somewhere.

Yeah, it just doesn't make any sense - "America" is easier to say than "Homeland" and "America" is a word that resonates deeply with most of us, and is powerful and meaningful. Feeling the need to replace that word in the context of security discussions - strikes me as there possibly being some nasty and manipulative intent underfoot.

I mean . . . its so simple. "We need to defend America" not fucking "We need to defend the Homeland"! I mean, WTF?

Defending our Homeland makes it out to sound as if everyone is out to get us as if we're the victims.

- N

Welcome to doublespeak 101.

Changing the language, changing definitions, enables the phrasers to recreate meaning to suit their purposes. Stalin did it to Marxist vocabulary, Hitler did it. US has been doing it for a while. Bush camp does it in overdrive.

I agree it is scary. Reminescent of the most evil gov'ts in history.

Other Orwellian phrases/items:

Freedom isn't Free
Fight for freedom
Defend liberty
Protect liberty
Bringing peace and security to ____. (insert new colony here)
Peacekeeper missile
Patriot act
leave no child behind
Clear skys initiative
democratization
globalization

.....just to name a few.

Clear skys initiativeI still laugh everytime I think about it....

The Third Reich's Joseph Goebbels was the original master of double-speak. Realizing that for the purposes of short term power consolidation and manipulation of public opinion - it doesn't matter what the leader actually DOES, only what he SAYS.

-- Pass a law allowing more logging, roads into wilderness and other deforstations . . . but *call* it the "Healthy Forests Initiative ".

-- Push through legislation allowing more pollution, but *call* it the "Clean Air Act".

-- Get a new program going that in fact reinforces and magnifies the gap between the educational options for rich and the poor, but *call* it "No Child Left Behind".

And there is much more of this.

These are evil and cynical sociopaths, and we are pretty screwed if they are allowed to keep doing this! The history of the USA will be just another interesting chapter in history books.

Nothing new for me, I've been reading about these days we are having for quite some time!!.

http://www.peikoff.com/op/home.htm

Godless.

I call the USA under Bush the new Soviet Union more then Nazi Germany. Because America's mission isn't a racist one, it’s a universalistic ideological one. Democracy (note America is not really a democracy) is good for everyone; Communism (note that the USSR was not under any terms communist) is good for everyone, Adam Smith makes sense, Karl Marx makes sense, you are at the shackles of “evil” dictators we will give you freedom, you are the shackles of “evil” bourgeoisie we will give you freedom…like the USSR I predict the US will eventually eat itself into oblivion.

Oh no "Protect the fatherland" says Adolf Bush!

I call the USA under Bush the new Soviet Union more then Nazi Germany. Because America's mission isn't a racist one, it’s a universalistic ideological one. Democracy (note America is not really a democracy) is good for everyone; Communism (note that the USSR was not under any terms communist) is good for everyone, Adam Smith makes sense, Karl Marx makes sense, you are at the shackles of “evil” dictators we will give you freedom, you are the shackles of “evil” bourgeoisie we will give you freedom…like the USSR I predict the US will eventually eat itself into oblivion.

How provacative.

How provacative.

My, my - intense, and well thought out sarcasm with a clear justification and meaning. Coupled with the creation of a new word! Now THAT is provocative.

Gravity,

That’s a low blow, picking on someones spelling, for all we know wesmorris has a mental handicap or is missing some fingers.

I think "the Homeland" is a little odd, perhaps someone could find a link on to when and why this administration started using that term.

Oh, it was really more of a slap at him ducking out of actually dealing with the issue, and instead wimping out and simply posting a smarmy, sarcastic, and meaningless tiny reply.

The ''provocative'' bit was just a silly little aside of my own. And tongue in cheek, I mean hell, is ''smarmy'' even actually a *word*? I don't know! :)

Oh, I just looked up ''smarmy'', and it is a word. :mad: Damn, even when I try to be Bush-like and coin new words I fail! ;)

WordNet Dictionary - "Smarmy"

Definition: [adj] unpleasantly and excessively suave or ingratiating in manner or speech; "buttery praise"; "gave him a fulsome introduction"; "an oily sycophantic press agent"; "oleaginous hypocrisy"; "smarmy self-importance"; "the unctuous Uriah Heep"

Synonyms: buttery, fulsome, insincere, oily, oleaginous, unctuous

WCF wrote:
perhaps someone could find a link on to when and why this administration started using that term
Well I found these but it does not necessarily explain it, lots of opinions really and I don't now how reliable anything is.

http://www.metrostate.com/library/stories/02/nov/GuelphMercury.shtml
http://www.spectacle.org/1201/bartlett.html
http://www.homelanddefensejournal.com/about.html
http://www.amarillonet.com/stories/120802/usn_homeland.shtml
http://www.rc3.org/cgi-bin/archive.pl?year=2002&month=06&day=15

Not that I think government should be trusted, but for sake of argument. Is it entirely possible that people are so caught up with analysis, blame and paranoia that we think there always has to be an underlying thing going on? Not that we shouldn't and not that there isn't...just a thought.

But, its just plain weird that they felt the need to replace the word "America'' in their statements! Its a word that has worked fine for a long time!

And, their publications are way to tightly scripted to believe that its just an aside or afterthought. I'll bet there was a great deal of thought, planning and ambition behind the language choice.

Oh, it was really more of a slap at him ducking out of actually dealing with the issue, and instead wimping out and simply posting a smarmy, sarcastic, and meaningless tiny reply.

But you did see the meaning, thus it isn't meaningless. Perhaps you weren't around for the thread on the issue, but the intent was a sneaky blast from the past - it applied perfectly. Why the condescension? Besides, it's not my resposibility to deal with nico's issues. I was merely holding out a mirror for him. Besides, making provacative comments doesn't warrant much reply does it?

Seems to me you've got smarmy down pat though, sweet work. :P

My reply wasn't intended to be provacative; it would only be provacative to those who are sheltered from reality. The US is acting like the USSR in many…many ways, and merely calling it provacative is enough to vindicate that position for me.

I know several people that have been saying the same thing for over 15 years Undecided.

I have stayed out of it as much as possible (dislike political confrontations/always end in pissy people). Anyways. I can see where your take on it is happening. At this point one shouldn't discount anything the way things are going.

But you did see the meaning, thus it isn't meaningless.

Well, stud, ok - the meaning I saw was that you didn't have an intelligent answer so you just made a short little slap at them and then ran. I saw no analysis of and retort to their post.

So, I guess I *did* see the right meaning. And then, I apologize for assuming there was greater depth lurking behind the one liners!

In my home country, words "homeland, fatherland, motherland" were monopolized by propaganda, official gatherings and official patriotic publications. Those bombastic words were not common use words. If I hear these words, in any translation (I understand) something large, cold, hostile, intrusive, intollerant, demanding touches me. Probably, better state brainwashing techniques could have made everybody to love those words more.

If I hear these words, in any translation (I understand) something large, cold, hostile, intrusive, intollerant, demanding touches me.

And I fear such thing is going to be touching all of us in our lifetimes (or is already touching us, but its grip will tighten).

....when they say we need to protect the ''homeland'', how is that easier to say or more meaningful than saying ''we need to protect AMERICA"?
I've been checking around, but I haven't found any official term for Fear of Synonyms.

Necessity being the mother of invention, I'm sure that'll change.

Gravitisynophobia?

I cannot tell you exactly why the world "homeland" was choosen, but I can give a suggestion as to why America is not used more often. The answer is in the question: It is already used too often, and can sound redundant. This is speech 101 stuff, do not bore the audience with the same vocabulary over and over again. So homeland more than likely was a choosen word to avoid using another word to much.

Hmmm, these same folks may be the most redundant buzzword users in political history! So its hard to believe their motivation was not wanting redundancy! Here are some that are showing up in games of "Dubya Buzzword Bingo" to play during debates & speeches:

"Terror", "Compassion", "Evil", "Fear", "Values", "Trust" and etc. For that matter ''Homeland'!

You know, I'm willing to consider that there is no great conspiracy behind the decision to use "Homeland" instead of "America", or "USA", or "our Nation" . . . but thinking its because they want to avoid redundancy? Silly. In fact, the word "Homeland" is becoming one of the most redundant words they use!

--------------------------------------------------

"Providence once called me from this city to lead the Reich. There must have been a reason, and it could only have been to return to my beloved homeland!"

---

"I announce to the German people the greatest achievement of my life.

As Führer and Chancellor of the German nation and of the Reich, I proclaim before history the entrance of my homeland into the German Reich."

---

The terrorist destruction of the Reistag gave Hitler the power to pull away civil liberties, consolodate power . . . and . . .

http://www.reformation.org/historyrepeats3.jpg

*In fact, the word "Homeland" is becoming one of the most redundant words they use!

Na!! nothing beats "freedom fries" LOL...LOL..

Godless.

Welcome to doublespeak 101.

Changing the language, changing definitions, enables the phrasers to recreate meaning to suit their purposes. Stalin did it to Marxist vocabulary, Hitler did it. US has been doing it for a while. Bush camp does it in overdrive.

I agree it is scary. Reminescent of the most evil gov'ts in history.

Other Orwellian phrases/items:

Freedom isn't Free
Fight for freedom
Defend liberty
Protect liberty
Bringing peace and security to ____. (insert new colony here)
Peacekeeper missile
Patriot act
leave no child behind
Clear skys initiative
democratization
globalization

.....just to name a few.


Here's a new one (Bush said it at least twice in debate#3):
armies of compassion