I just watched the movie "The Pianist" and it reminded me of Schindler's List and all the other Holocaust movies/documentaries I've seen, and it reminded me of a question I've always had.

In these movies and in a lot of the documentaries you see some of the Jews laying down and allowing themselves to be shot after seeing the one next to them be shot. They walk into cash chambers, and in the book "Night" which was based ona true story they walk into a pit of fire one after the other.

My question is why didn't they fight it? If they knew they were going to die, why wouldnt they put up a struggle instead of laying down and dying? I know some of them fought back, but for the most part it seems most of them layed down and took the bullet to the head, walked into the fire, or let themselves get the shit beat out of them by German officers while 100 stood by and watched...while those 100 Jews could have easily overpowered the guards and put up a fight. 6 million died, 6 million could have put up a strong fight.

I know it's not that simple, and I know there has to be a reason why they didn't fight back. What is it? It's always something I've wondered about.

That is an excellent question.
I was going to say they're spirit was broke.
But what does that mean?
They had given up hope?
They were brought up beleiving someone else would save them?
I don't know.
That is a very good question.

Originally posted by Grey Seal
I just watched the movie "The Pianist" and it reminded me of Schindler's List and all the other Holocaust movies/documentaries I've seen, and it reminded me of a question I've always had.

In these movies and in a lot of the documentaries you see some of the Jews laying down and allowing themselves to be shot after seeing the one next to them be shot. They walk into cash chambers, and in the book "Night" which was based ona true story they walk into a pit of fire one after the other.

My question is why didn't they fight it? If they knew they were going to die, why wouldnt they put up a struggle instead of laying down and dying? I know some of them fought back, but for the most part it seems most of them layed down and took the bullet to the head, walked into the fire, or let themselves get the shit beat out of them by German officers while 100 stood by and watched...while those 100 Jews could have easily overpowered the guards and put up a fight. 6 million died, 6 million could have put up a strong fight.

I know it's not that simple, and I know there has to be a reason why they didn't fight back. What is it? It's always something I've wondered about.

I would imaging that when you were in a "working camp"
during WW2 you would quick suffer from some sort of
mental unstabilaty.

They didn't fight it because they knew Jews - a product of the Middle East - don't belong in Europe.

The Holocaust was a great idea, and it should happen again, this time taking the Jews and Xians with it.

Originally posted by Christian Sodomy
They didn't fight it because they knew Jews - a product of the Middle East - don't belong in Europe.

The Holocaust was a great idea, and it should happen again, this time taking the Jews and Xians with it.

Thank you Christian Sodomy, you have made my day.

It's not often I run into someone as dumb as you. It's like a prize when I meet someone this ignorant.

Grey Seal:

The Jews did not fight back because they relied on God to save them.

He didn't.

Originally posted by Christian Sodomy
They didn't fight it because they knew Jews - a product of the Middle East - don't belong in Europe.

The Holocaust was a great idea, and it should happen again, this time taking the Jews and Xians with it.


Funny. Most atheists reject religion because they think them
intolerant. I belive you are just a child that didnt get enough
love when you was a baby. Now you are the type that wears
a black robe, colors his hair black. nd bitch and whine about
the cruelty of mankind.

Idiot

Actually that is false, most European Jews aren't from the ME, they are from Kharzia. They belong in Europe more then they do in the Middle East. :)

I am guessing Christian Sodomy's name and his comments, he is trolling and/or trying to ruffle feathers, although from some comments I have read from some people in these forums regarding the Jews, well, it makes me wonder.

If you can't handle opinions, just don't read the thread. There's somewhere where people will make safe lies for your comfort.

The Khazar hypothesis: true, but Khazars are only part European... they are mostly Mongol ("Khan" -> "Cohen").

They probably didn't fight, because most people wouldn't have fought.

They probably didn't fight, because most people wouldn't have fought.
What do you base that on?
If there's no question you're about to be executed what is there to gain in not fighting? There's is no dignity in accepting your own murder IMO.

I would probably think that they were so starved, beaten, and dispirited that they couldn't. Many people will grasp at anything if they think that it will save them somehow. Kind of hard to judge if you have never been is such a situation. I would like to think I would go out of this world like I came, kicking and screaming.:D

there were small pockets of jewish (and non-jewish) "Partisans" resisting the nazis.
some would launch a disorganized guerilla war
some would throw molotov coctails at trains carrying ppl "to a better future".....
but what could they do... the allied powers fought for years and barely defeated Germany. would could a minority with no weapons do? if you were a leader of some underground resistance movement, what could you have said to your ppl to motivate them?

otheadp, I think he is referring to what occurred in the concentration camps, but you are definitely correct that some fought back. I believe at the Treblinka camp there was a resistance movement that eventually allowed some number to escape. Outside the camps there was the Warsaw Ghetto uprising.

Originally posted by kazakhan
What do you base that on?
If there's no question you're about to be executed what is there to gain in not fighting? There's is no dignity in accepting your own murder IMO.

Don't kid yourself. Most people are sheep. I am.

Don't kid yourself. Most people are sheep. I am.
Oh I thought you were the spurious monkey:D

In these movies and in a lot of the documentaries you see some of the Jews laying down and allowing themselves to be shot after seeing the one next to them be shot. They walk into cash chambers, and in the book "Night" which was based ona true story they walk into a pit of fire one after the other.

...why didn't they fight it...if they knew they were going to die...
They probably had trust in a God, and/or an afterlife of some sort.

6 million died, 6 million could have put up a strong fight.
Not really. Not if they were oppressed from the beginning, which I'm sure they were. The demoralisation of the victims, if their families had all or mostly been killed, is probably also a factor: many of them might not have wanted to go on without their family(-ies). This is also probably why they didn't fight death and just went along with it: they would have died either way (whether they welcomed it or not) so it might be considered better to have a dignified death, rather than an undignified one. You say six million could have put up a strong fight? Have you ever heard of the saying 'divide and conquer'?? It is so true it's almost a law!

The demoralisation of the victims, if their families had all or mostly been killed, is probably also a factor: many of them might not have wanted to go on without their family(-ies).
That's a good point!
I was going to argue again about dignity, but I'm going to assume at least a significant number did indeed fight/resist during their last moments.

Originally posted by kazakhan
What do you base that on?
If there's no question you're about to be executed what is there to gain in not fighting? There's is no dignity in accepting your own murder IMO.

Not everyone thinks that way. Survival is "just an opinion."

Originally posted by Mucker
They probably had trust in a God, and/or an afterlife of some sort.

Not really. Not if they were oppressed from the beginning, which I'm sure they were. The demoralisation of the victims, if their families had all or mostly been killed, is probably also a factor: many of them might not have wanted to go on without their family(-ies). This is also probably why they didn't fight death and just went along with it: they would have died either way (whether they welcomed it or not) so it might be considered better to have a dignified death, rather than an undignified one. You say six million could have put up a strong fight? Have you ever heard of the saying 'divide and conquer'?? It is so true it's almost a law!

Making excuses. They were the wealthiest population in Europe; they had more resources than anyone else to resist, and eight years of anti-Jewish action before any deportations took place.

I think it was simple why they did not resist:

GUILT.

I would suspect that the Nazi's eliminated the one's that they felt might lead any rebellion first and kept the more sheep like people for the slave labor camps.

Many simply could not believe that the Nazis were carrying out a mass genocide. They were not sure they were to be killed even when they were being ushered into the gas chambers.

It is important to keep in mind that some people survived the death camps. Fighting back was a guaranteed way to a quick death. If you didn't fight, you had a chance to live, small though it might be.

And 100 people overwhelming a few guards, you say? How do you think that would go when the guards carried machine guns and the prisoners were unarmed? Would you be the first to rush the guards if you were among the 100?

Think about it, people.

PS I really have to agree with Evil Genius.

They didn't fight it because they knew Jews - a product of the Middle East - don't belong in Europe.

Using this same formula, we can succinctly determine that "more traditional Europeans"--whites, I guess, also do not "belong" in Europe. We all belong in Africa, every last H. sapien. Africa is where the Jews came from, even though they weren't semitic at the time. Africa is where the whites came from, even though they weren't white at the time. Prozak, I am assuming that you live in America, and that somewhere along the lines an ancestor of yours emigrated here. Using your logic, you don't belong here either, and I have a perfectly good excuse to shoot you in the head, and you have a perfectly good reason to accept it as a punishment, because you are indeed guilty of a crime. This isn't your home turf.

As for the question of this thread, I really don't know. I'm half Jewish, so maybe the next time I'm visiting the Jewish side of my family I could ask them and see what they think. I would guess that they were demoralized, weakened severely (lack of food, water, shelter, etcetera). Plus I think there's an element of every human psyche that, no matter the situation, will not accept fully that you are indeed about to die, even when you're face down on the ground and you can feel the nozzle of a luger on the back of your skull. You think something will intervene. Sometime. I saw the Pianist too, I remember the scene where the guy's friend was taken from the line and the Nazi about to shoot him ran out of ammo. From what I could glean from the film, it looked like the director was trying to get this very thing across--that the man did not believe that he was going to die.

Then again, maybe I'm wrong...

Hello:
Thank u evil genuis. Why should we wish for those awfull days to be repeated when many people in Europe including jews suffered so much.
Here I want to add something, Nowadays there are people who raise the question that the hollocaust did not happen. OK. Let them think so.
For those of us who believe such an idea, I say I do not say that six millions were put to death, not even a million, nor a thousand. But just ten innocent jews were killed. And that is enough for me to call Hitler and their supporters at the time, the horrible butchers of the 20th century. May the souls of all those who fought the Nazis and those who didnt and are no more rest in peace. Amen

Originally posted by Grey Seal
My question is why didn't they fight it? If they knew they were going to die, why wouldnt they put up a struggle instead of laying down and dying?

There is a misconception on the way the jewish died. The jewish didn't wake up one day and were demanded to walk into gas chambers or they would have realized it and fought back.

The jews were systemetically lied to and decieved over a long period of time.

It all started with the jews can't go out after certain hours, to the jews have to carry their ID at all times, to the jews have to register themselves in the local government office, to the jews have to report to a certain location for additional registration, to the jews need to go to a temporary camp site, to the jews have to work certain hours, to the jews have to take a bath at a cetain time, to the jews have to take group baths, to the jews walk into a gas chamber unknowingly......

Do you all see why the arabs in the states now a days don't like the idea of being profiled and registering themselves for? The arabs feel the resentments againest them, see some of sort of arab cleansing going on and are trying to fight it, but how do you fight an idea in your head while it hasn't happened yet, you'll be called a terrorist.....That's exactly how the jews felt.

If there's no question you're about to be executed what is there to gain in not fighting? There's is no dignity in accepting your own murder IMO.

Perhaps they felt that there was no question that they were going to die anyway, and a greater dignity in accepting the inevitable.

New arrivals probably reinforced this idea, telling you how no one knew of the camps, or that if they did, they didn't care, telling you of persecution in every facet of live even beyond the gates of the camp. And if everyone you loved had died, wouldn't there be a sense of wanting to join them, if only in the sense of sharing their suffering, their mode of death? So fight for what? Just to be shot down by some guard laughing at your weakness.

Let's not forget that, unlike us, they didn't know that it was going to come to an end, as strong a faith in liberation as trrops fighting on a full stomach. This was it, their life.

Originally posted by Pollux V
Using this same formula, we can succinctly determine that "more traditional Europeans"--whites, I guess, also do not "belong" in Europe. We all belong in Africa, every last H. sapien.

This is not yet proven, especially since in Asia a parallel evolution of primates has been found.

I'd say the Nazis really knew what they were doing. They knew how to make a holocaust work sadly, and they used the lowest forms of tactics to make the process more efficient.

They didn't make it work enough.

www.ussliberty.org

Originally posted by apendrapew
they used the lowest forms of tactics to make the process more efficient.

no man ,they used IBM to make the process efficient :D

hey, is it my imagination or is Christian Sodomy an out and out anti-semite?

What a poor oppressed person they must be.

I have to say I agree with Guthrie.

I think Christian Sodomy is trying to teach us the meaning of hate by making us hate him.

This is not yet proven

So finding the skeletal fossils of every one of H. Sapiens ancestors in Africa, sometimes only in Africa, is just some kind of funky coincidence?

especially since in Asia a parallel evolution of primates has been found

I've heard about this, but it is totally false. Parallel evolution has never, ever been documented anywhere. Conditions in Asia and Africa are and were far from the same, and even then the likeliness is still extremely questionable.

So prozak, I'm a Jew. Albeit not a practicing one. I actually just got my update in the mail on Israel's progress of dominating the world, looks like, let me see here....yes, yes, all but Indonesia and Yemen are under complete Jewish hegemony. Oh, and yes, the six million Jews that supposedly died really went into a zionist armed service, and are being used as an army to combat anyone who would dare oppose the Hebrew case for world domination. We were close in medieval Europe, excluding all the pogroms and exterminations, however now we are only a few months away from what we have been seeking since our religion was founded.

Resistance is futile. Die or be assimilated.

Do you all see why the arabs in the states now a days don't like the idea of being profiled and registering themselves for? The arabs feel the resentments againest them, see some of sort of arab cleansing going on and are trying to fight it, but how do you fight an idea in your head while it hasn't happened yet, you'll be called a terrorist.....That's exactly how the jews felt.

Hmm, this is giving me ideas.
Exterminate the Muslim population in America? Fire up the ovens!

Well, if it's not as simple as the Jews laying down and being executed there should be a movie demonstrating that, instead of all of these goddamned pity movies, yeah it makes people feel sorry that it happened, but it also makes them look like total wusses--and i know that's not a Jewish trait. If there is one, what's the name? Of all the Holocaust related movies I've seen, for the most part, it shows Jews basically being sadly complacent--laying down and taking it like bitches. And I don't think thats particularly a characteristic of the Jewish race. On TV you see footage of people in America getting all hopped up and fighting back over being arrested on some minor charge, I'd think being forced out of your house and seeing friends killed would call for a stronger reaction. Back to the laying down and dying part, now, if the Jews did that, that's saying that anyone would do that since everyone is basically (generally) the same. Now, I couldnt picture myself doing that at all. Regarding what James R said, if i knew I was about to die, saw the person next to me get killed I would be the first to charge a guy with a machine gun. I just don't see how so many people could, well, to put it frankly. "take it up the ass" like that...that's total bitch behavior. If the same situation happened here in America, to regular Americans (and I don't mean all one type like the Japanese internment camp thing) would we do the same thing? In those situations do all people have the same responses for the most part?

Originally posted by otheadp
would could a minority with no weapons do?

There were something like 6 million Jews killed, more including the survivors. I don't think there were 6+ million soldiers in the german military. 20 unarmed Jews, or 10 even could overpower an armed guard. I know it's not that simple, it's just so hard to believe. If you see the 3 guys next to you get shot, dude, you're gonna get shot--fucking do something and don't be a bitch about it. It drives me mad.

Oh and one more thing. approx 6 million Jews died in the Holocaust right? If the Holocaust had never happened, how different would the world be? Would that be like 20 million more Jews today? Would we be able to tell a difference? Now, I'm not good at race differentiating. To me white is white, and Jews are white along with everyone else of european etc decent, but how different would the world be today? Maybe someone with a betetr understanding could say something about that, I'm kind of interested. Would America's Jewish population be significantly higher? Would the Jews have awhole area in Europe to themselves that's not there now? like more of Poland or something? Don't know much about it...

Another thing, what the hell is up with Jew bashing? I'm not Jewish, but I have a few friends that are. I never understood it. I also have friend that insults Jews for no apparent reason. What the fuck is up with that? Jews are white people, just like every other white person...what the hell is so special about Jews that makes them such big targets? With other racial descrimination it's still fuggin stupid, but it makes more sense since they're a different color, and people make fun of people different from them, but Jews, they're fucking white...am I missing something here? I never understood that. Maybe someone could enlighten me?

People don't like them because of their beleifs. Isn't that obvious?

I've heard about this, but it is totally false. Parallel evolution has never, ever been documented anywhere. Conditions in Asia and Africa are and were far from the same, and even then the likeliness is still extremely questionable.

No it is not false. There are plenty of instances of humanoids growing in independent regions. It is thought that these early asiastic types cross bred with the homosapiens millions of years later, which gives us the race of Asians we have today.

Remember, there were three forms of humans walking this planet at one point, but only homo sapien survived.

Grey, there are several reasons many hate the Jews. Historically, it is because of the death of Christ. This in turn lead to systematic persecution and the prevention of Jews getting property and many types of jobs. As a result many went into money lending/banking and made many very wealthy. Coincidentally, money lending was considered evil by the Catholic church creating more hate, but I think mostly is was greed and envy. Many Jews are very industrious and many now have become prosperous and are in politics and banking, so then you have conspiracy theories that there is a Jewish plot to take over everything. It is total garbage. It is amazing that so many people tolerate anti-Semitism and/or part of that, but freak out at any slightly perceived, semi-alleged allegation of racism against other minorities. BTW, there are non-white Jews, some are black such as from Ethiopia.

There is also another reason depending on your religious beliefs. The Bible talks of the Jews being despised and driven for what happened with Christ. Some would call all the racism towards Jews as fulfillment of prophecy.

The ultimate irony of the whole thing is that many Jews support the Democrats and yet it is the Democrats who generally do not support the Jews and Israel, it is the Republicans and conservatives. Go figure.

Historically, it's because Jews moralize their outsider status and use it to justify scheming business practices against others. Remember this is a tribe of Semitic traders who have never coexisted peacefully with ANY population.

"Historically, it's because Jews moralize their outsider status and use it to justify scheming business practices against others. Remember this is a tribe of Semitic traders who have never coexisted peacefully with ANY population."

OK, got any stats showing that jews are behind worlwide pyramid schemes, or those dodgy e-mails from Nigeria or suchlike? I met someone who claimed that the Scots were really running things, if you look at the names of many banks and people involved with it all they are scottish, eg Jardine and Matheson in hong Kong, so maybe its the Scots that are running the world.
Semitic traders whove never coexisted peacefully with anyone? except perhaps in spain at ties, or Jerusalem, or wherever. Or even in Europe in the medieval period. Meanwhile, the Christians were busy unpeacefully non coexisting with Moslems and indeed within themselves.

"No it is not false. There are plenty of instances of humanoids growing in independent regions. It is thought that these early asiastic types cross bred with the homosapiens millions of years later, which gives us the race of Asians we have today.

Remember, there were three forms of humans walking this planet at one point, but only homo sapien survived."

But you think they cross bred after millions of years apart? Got any evidence? And yes, i remember that there used to be other species of homo, but they were all much closer related.