Why is it that it seems like an acceptable research method to study the Greeks? Nietzche has done this and many other people refer to the Greeks as though they are valid evidence for inspection or proof for a writers argument. Is there a specific history to the Greeks which makes their culture some kind of birth of human pureness which is rich in 'truth's'??

edited: original post showed signs of caffeine overdose.

Basically, they were a philosophical culture that hasn't been duplicated since - the birth of philosophy, if you will. They also began the Olympics. :D

They also began the Olympics. But wasn't this only because of their disgust in themselves?? They created the Olympics because the Olympics represented the Greeks basic values but which had been continued through to a, what the Greeks considered, a disgusting end?

You still haven't answered my question!! :D why are the Greeks so eligable for study?? It's because of their public baths isn't it?? :D

it turns out that when stuff is figured out by the usual means of research, the greeks already knew it from their careful philosophical consideration.

Greeks are eligable because they were the first to come up wit philosiphy, (im so tired i dont know if i spelled that right..) But they also were the first to pump out doctors, they were the first to bathe regularly, they were the first to.. the first to.. the first to.. Etc etc they did a lot

Originally posted by Charles Fleming
Why is it that it seems like an acceptable research method to study the Greeks?
Is there a specific history to the Greeks which makes their culture some kind of birth of human pureness which is rich in 'truth's'??

They are considered the start of or the foundation of Western Civilization, of which Europeans & Americans belong to. They experimented with several ideas & ideals that are looked upon as the forerunners of art, philosophy, democracy, drama, music, history, etc..

Originally posted by Weiser_Dub
Basically, they were a philosophical culture that hasn't been duplicated since - the birth of philosophy, if you will. They also began the Olympics. :D
Ahh, you're to Eurocentric; ask the Chinese, Indians & Native Americans what their opinions are of your statement.

Originally posted by JoojooSpaceape
Greeks are eligable because they were the first to come up wit philosiphy, (im so tired i dont know if i spelled that right..) But they also were the first to pump out doctors, they were the first to bathe regularly, they were the first to.. the first to.. the first to.. Etc etc they did a lot
Egyptians, Sumerians, Indians & Native Americans would differ on your 'firsts', look up history & see if you are right?

we could speculate on things, but in terms of provable history, it's laid out with the greeks

Originally posted by Randolfo
Ahh, you're to Eurocentric; ask the Chinese, Indians & Native Americans what their opinion are of your statement. I agree, the Greek just happened to be more open with their knowledge, otherwise the Chinese would have ruled over the world. ;)

Mr. Fleming,

as for the Olympics (simply because it bites to hear somebody get it wrong, otherwise I wouldn't be posting) it has nothing to do with values so...like, you know, shutup. They were inaugurated by invading tribes of Aechians, who conquered the poorly defended throne of Myceane in early Greece. Seeing how women were deified and venerated, this 'disgusting' practice was quelled by the Aechian king who sent envoys throughout early Greece to finally settle on a new hierarchy: a Divine Family of twelve dieties with Zeus at the head. Deliberations took place at a township near Pisa named Olympia, and games were held to celebrate the new pantheon- the Olympic Games.

"why are the Greeks so eligable for study??"

that's easy to answer ...

Their material culture is one of the highest ever ... arts such as sculpture have never been surpassed by anyone. Further, they wrote a great deal about things such as philosophy (which included physics, biology, etc.), astronomy, you name it. They invented democracy, different political systems ...

The Romans started with copying them - everything that was 'Greek' was considered as good, high, educated, etc.
This idea didn't leave the Europeans when the Roman empire fell ...

Originally posted by Weiser_Dub
we could speculate on things, but in terms of provable history, it's laid out with the greeks
“Provable history”???, as if Egyptians & Sumerians weren’t first in civilization in that area; no speculation, just hard data, ruins, literature, etc. check some timelines available on the ‘Net, here is one link:
http://chaos1.hypermart.net/anciv/

Originally posted by c'est moi
"why are the Greeks so eligable for study??"

that's easy to answer ...
Yes, the West is the child of Greek civilization & so is Eurocentric at its core, early scientists were very racist too, & some of their early racist theories have yet to be completely refuted by so-called scientists, because some are still ‘Social Darwinists’

Their material culture is one of the highest ever ... arts such as sculpture have never been surpassed by anyone.
Shucks, Michelangelo must have come a close second? The Greeks defined 'beauty' in the Western World, so they are the standard, but again Egyptians, Chinese, Indians & Native Americans would not agree with that standard

The Romans started with copying them - everything that was 'Greek' was considered as good, high, educated, etc.
This idea didn't leave the Europeans when the Roman empire fell ...
Agreed for Western World, but would Chinese agree?

it turns out that when stuff is figured out by the usual means of research, the greeks already knew it from their careful philosophical consideration. Do you know where any of this wisdom can be found?? they were the first to.. the first to.. the first to.. Etc etc they did a lot Or is it just that they were a society of writers which resulted in a recording of what they did do? If this is true then there should be a pool of information, but this does not make it 'truth' though! Surely greek history should be studied and traced to discover how meaningful they are (which I'm sure some have done but I do wonder how much work is done purely for aesthetic reasons and how much is done in the pursuit of truth) They are considered the start of or the foundation of Western Civilization, of which Europeans & Americans belong to. They experimented with several ideas & ideals that are looked upon as the forerunners of art, philosophy, democracy, drama, music, history, etc.. Thanks Randolpho!

There has never been a greater society than the Ancient Greeks, whose spark of genius still illuminates much of what Western Society still knows today. The Greeks laid foundations for the art forms of philosophy, mathematics, history, drama, epic poetry, and many of the natural sciences. Understanding the connection between physical and intellectual strength and well being, the Greeks were also fierce competitors in athletic contests, culminating in their creation of the Olympic games.The following post describes my earlier attempt to emulate Socrates through sparking thought in others with my provocative speaking.


http://www.sidis.net/philistreview.htm

"Shucks, Michelangelo must have come a close second?"

but he didn't do better ...

"The Greeks defined 'beauty' in the Western World, so they are the standard, but again Egyptians, Chinese, Indians & Native Americans would not agree with that standard "

that doesn't really matter as this question seems to reflect to Europeans

(but I can dig a little deeper here if you are interested: the standard of the Egyptians in sculpture remained somewhat 'archaic' throughout their history because the materials they used were very hard - so no details were possible in their sculptures (btw, the original Greek sculptures were in copper, not in marble). But, the archaic sculptures from the Greek are imitations from the Egyptian sculptures ...)

"Agreed for Western World, but would Chinese agree?"

Doesn't matter as I said.

From my studying of east and west philosophy, about everything that the Greeks "came up with", was thought of hundreds if not thousands of years before by easterners.

They pretty much looked at dualism, and threw it in the trash. Us westerners are still obsessing over it to this day.

My little subjective rant I guess.



*inside joke warning...

Um yeah Plato...

Plato was a man

"From my studying of east and west philosophy, about everything that the Greeks "came up with", was thought of hundreds if not thousands of years before by easterners."

That's because they took most of what they knew directly over from the east ...

but this is not an answer to the question ... it does'nt matter who took from whom or who was first

Well I think the answer is much like c'est moi said, the greeks had an extremely large material culture that other cultures could aknowledge and look back on.

I would say also that they were the first culture to make dualism become popular. A person with a dualistic point of view tends to have a radicallly different outlook in life than a monist. This reflects in a dualist culture. Since the Greeks were the first to make this popular and that's what westerners have today, along with what was said up above about having a large material culture (long-winded sentence, I know), well you take all that and the Greeks become pretty well studied, because they provide a large basis for current western cultures.

However, I think writers like Nietzsche were out to challenge this western basis rather than consider it as a "valid evidence for inspection or proof for a writers argument". Nietzshe's philosophy was more eastern than western.

Obviously the man wrote such a tale that we now associate all Greek literature to his writings. The Great Gatsby is just as well written with as many themes and symbols as you could possibly comprehend. Greek culture was the birth of Europe and Western civilization. Cmon.. Democracy. They were an amazing group of people (except for that fool Galen). I understand that it seems that we put too much emphasis on a culture that doesn't even register in the global community anymore, but our language makes many allusions and similes regarding Greek culture.

See them as they were not as they appear today and maybe you'll see a whole new world.

the greeks were an amazing culture, as stated before, they are studied becasue much of what they created is stil used today, Democracy, medicine,Philosiphy

Originally posted by Slacker47
Obviously the man wrote such a tale that we now associate all Greek literature to his writings. The Great Gatsby is just as well written with as many themes and symbols as you could possibly comprehend.
First off, this thread ain't about how great the American civilization was, it's about how great the Greek civilization was. Homer's Odyssey was such a marvel of an epic because, besides the fact that it was one of the first, it was written among an extremely active culture that was flourishing so rapidly (despite the number of battles participated), practically creating the bases of philosophy, every type of art, math, science, and literature.

See them as they were not as they appear today and maybe you'll see a whole new world.
:bugeye: Can you elaborate?