Abductees, experiencers or contactees, whatever term one might care to use, we are all a vastly more enlightened people, maintaining the purest of all possible perspectives. We know that intelligent beings of a higher order exist, not simply by our reasoning, or intellect, but rather by way of our first hand experience with them. If nothing else, as abductees, our perspective has been inexorably altered – consequently, we are no longer able see the world without the fullness of the universe filling our minds as well.

There is a natural division that occurs between abductees and non-abductees that can never be bridged - that can never be overcome. It is not our doing, it exists through no fault of our own; rather it is simply the nature of things.

As abductees, we know those non-abductees of the world, but they do not know who we are – we are as human as they, but they, not having experienced the abduction phenomenon, nor having been genetically altered and programmed as all abductees have, do not understand us. There certainly remains in them a fear of us, of what and who we are.

We understand our humanness, and the extent to which we have become enlightened; they understand only that narrow aspect of their humanness, never having learned from the abduction experience, never having traced the true depth of their fears, being forced to expand those long-held paradigms; thereby becoming enlightened at the hands of their keepers, those instructors that all abductees have.

Therefore they are less, and we, all of the abductees of the world, are more, much more

Abductees are without a doubt, one of the most misunderstood factions within our society. We have been disregarded, ridiculed, exploited and censured – all of this taking place as we ourselves struggle to determine our own identity, one that encompasses all of our extraordinary and varied experiences. It’s rather like coming to terms with your surroundings, as these surroundings are constantly being changed, constantly held in flux relative to who and where you are – in short, we are asked to understand what has and is continually happening to us as we continue to exist on this untenable ground, never knowing with any degree of certainty what’s next for us, what might lie around the next corner, the next nights’ incident. We exist as nomads, wandering through our own lives as it were, without the luxury of any apparent normalcy that most others take for granted – naively mind you, but existing in them nonetheless.

But for us, those of us known of as abductees, contactees, experiencers or whatever one might choose to call us, this is our normalcy, our existence, day-in, day-out, whether we choose to accept it or not.

We have been burned, subconsciously etched by our experiences, constantly reminded of our plight with each new occurrence, with each new episode encountered. Add to the fact that each of us is at a different point in the cycle of the abductee experience, a different point in the realization and integration of our experiences, and you come to realize that no two of us are in the same orbit as it were – we are constantly evolving in the experiencing of our individual experience, and that experience being peculiar, or particular to each and every one of us.

Those of us who are abductees, never chose to be abductees. There was never a point in time where we decided to take part in this phenomenon. We are the product of those who have decided for us, that we needed to be a part of this endeavor – the extent of which we may never fully come to understand.

One does not fit the abduction experience into one’s life – the abduction experience is one’s life; from birth ‘til death it plays itself out daily. As an abductee, everything in one’s life is about one’s life as an abductee – you can’t run from it, hide from it or ignore it; but on the other hand, you can most certainly try.

But whether or not we were able to choose our predicament, it is ours nonetheless. And that being the case, we must embrace it as part and parcel of who and what we are as abductees – even if we do not entirely know who and what we are, and what purpose it is that we serve being who we are.

If we, those of known of as abductees, are truly more enlightened than those non-abductees of the world, then it is not our doing – we have had no say in this matter whatsoever, rather it is the result of the handiwork of our keepers, those abductors that all abductees have.

But as for me, I choose to remain skeptical in all things – neither believing, nor disbelieving, but rather abiding in that hollow place between the two.

.

There is no axiom, no truism that can sum up enlightenment, but if there were a single word that could be applied to it, to quantify its root source, the core or thread running through it, it would most probably be genetics.

Genetics is responsible for all things human, all things that appear to us as tendencies, traits, behavior patterns and such – for even learned behavior patterns are transferred into our genetic make-up as we live and record the events of our life.

“Enlightenment is the gathering, processing, integration and utilization of information - or put another way, enlightenment is information that has been received, understood, assimilated and then acted upon.”

As we integrate and assimilate enlightenment then, it is transferred and recorded in our very genetic make-up, which can then be passed down through the generations, from one generation to the next, and so on and so forth – with each passing generation becoming more enlightened.

The grays, or abductors as some prefer to call them, have in the process of abduction genetically altered “all” abductees to better facilitate the integration of enlightenment into their system, their biological, genetic based, system. Why genetically alter the abductees? In order to receive a more densely packed stream of information, which enlightenment is, it takes the altering of our genetic receptors. A better way to think of this may be to think of a phone line modem hook-up which interfaces with a home computer, as opposed to a DSL (digital) line interface. One is not compatible with the other, and in our case, the energy stream that we, as genetically altered abductees, are expected to receive, is both more densely pack and set at a higher frequency rate. In short, we are then able, after having been genetically altered, to receive the higher rate of enlightenment, which has “always” been present, always been available to those souls able to receive. Simply think of a TV set (prior to cable possibly) that could only receive one channel at a time, but many channels were being broadcast (through the airwaves) at the same time – it took the changing of the channel selector to receive the other channels. So then, our receptors, our frequency receivers, have been altered to receive a new channel; a channel of enlightenment set at both a higher rate of information transfer, as well as a higher frequency of operation - a frequency that has always been present, for those so able to receive.

It's always been about genetics - alter our genetic structure, and it changes everything about us.

If you are an abductee, and have yet to realize that you have been genetically altered, you will. The reception and station playing on your TV set is about to change drastically.

There is no understanding of these matters that comes from the trying (one does not understand these matters by trying to understand them by way of the intellect) – rather it is programmed into each one of us – each one of us that has been so programmed by our keepers, abductors, grays or helpers; depending on what one might choose to call them.

The hard part has already been accomplished for us – we have all been programmed to understand – now, from this point forward, we only need to do the remembering.

It is with ease that we may now grasp these concepts – for the difficult part is behind us – our fear has been overcome, we have walked through our most desperate moments at the hands of our abductors.

Ahead lies our ease - having already faced our deepest, darkest fears.

The fear that each one of has faced, at the hands of our abductors, was purposeful - we were meant to travel through our fears at their hands - and so it was that each of us has, with our salvation bearing fruit in the overcoming of our fear.

When the scriptures spoke of Satan, it was meant as an outward characterization of our inward fears - so in the overcoming of Satan, the one called Christ, overcame his inner fears.

There is only one singular purpose - the rectifying of the Self, in all of its facets, in all of its guises

Part and parcel of the abduction experience is that of being genetically altered by our abductors, keepers and such. To be an abductee, is to be a genetically altered human being. Depending upon your frame of reference, this may or may not be a good thing. To say that abductees, as a result of their being genetically altered, are superior or inferior as a direct result of this genetic tampering, is really to lose sight of the fact that not all things can be so easily classified, so easily pigeonholed or categorized into either or.

We have been genetically altered for a reason, for a purpose. To deny this, is to deny our abduction experience altogether – we have not been abducted but for a specific purpose, a specific set of objectives by our abductors – the fact that we are unaware of these objectives for the most part is irrelevant. These objectives exist, nonetheless.

Switching gears for a moment, each one of us has come to the realization of our being abductees in any one of countless ways – no two abductees have identical experiences, which is not to say that there aren’t countless similarities among each of our abduction experiences.

There is a high degree of personalization among our experiences, with fear being a central issue to most of us.

The point to all of this is that we are programmed all, but all are not programmed identically – we are genetically altered all, but not all are genetically altered identically.

There are similarities, a master plan that is followed if you will, but there are many variations among us.

Originally posted by Jocariah
Genetics is responsible for all things human, all things that appear to us as tendencies, traits, behavior patterns and such – for even learned behavior patterns are transferred into our genetic make-up as we live and record the events of our life.


Quit all this jibber jabber, and take a psychology 101 class, genetics isn't responceable for "all things human" and the events of our lives aren't being recorded into our genes.

In fact the two ideas contradict one another, for if genetics were responceable for everything we do, then how is it that what we do is actively recorded into our genes, wouldn't it all have to be there already?

Seriously, man, time to head back to High-school biology class.

Are Abductees More Enlightened?
Are christians more enlightened?
Are muslims more enlightened?
Are atheists more enlightened?
we are all a vastly more enlightened people
What of the ones that don't know they've been abducted? Are they enlightened?
maintaining the purest of all possible perspectives
Are you serious?
There is a natural division.......
WTF?
but they do not know who we are...
having been genetically altered and programmed as all abductees have....
There certainly remains in them a fear of us, of what and who we are.
All abductees? That is a big statement! ALL? They/we fear you, yet we don't know who you are???
Therefore they are less...
IMHO only someone that feels inferior could say something like this. It really is pathetic to infer someone is less human etc because they lack an experience.
as we ourselves struggle to determine our own identity...
continue to exist on this untenable ground...
never knowing with any degree of certainty what’s next for us...
without the luxury of any apparent normalcy...
whether we choose to accept it or not...
But whether or not we were able to choose our predicament...
even if we do not entirely know who and what we are...
If we, those of known of as abductees, are truly more enlightened...
But as for me, I choose to remain skeptical in all things...

This doesn't sound like enlightenment to me? Or is it just me?
So to answer your question, it would seem like a NO!

Jocariah,

Please describe your abduction experience. How has it made you more enlightened?

What enlightened message do you have for us non-abductees?

Hello kazakhan,

Thanks for taking the time to comment - your remarks are interesting .
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jocariah's Quote:
as we ourselves struggle to determine our own identity...
continue to exist on this untenable ground...
never knowing with any degree of certainty what’s next for us...
without the luxury of any apparent normalcy...
whether we choose to accept it or not...
But whether or not we were able to choose our predicament...
even if we do not entirely know who and what we are...
If we, those of known of as abductees, are truly more enlightened...
But as for me, I choose to remain skeptical in all things...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
kazakhan's Quote:
This doesn't sound like enlightenment to me? Or is it just me?
So to answer your question, it would seem like a NO!
.................................................. ................

kazakhan,

The process by which enlightenment comes is at times a messy one - it often times involves the living out of what is being learned, and of course all of the uncertainty that goes along with it, that is of what is being absorbed by the greater self.

This does not come by the intellectualizing alone.

Originally posted by James R
Jocariah,

Please describe your abduction experience. How has it made you more enlightened?

What enlightened message do you have for us non-abductees?

Hello James R.,

As far as enlightenment is concerned, there is no tenet, save one; except it delivers information, it is of no use, for enlightenment is nothing, if not grounded fully in information.

Enlightenment is information that has been recognized (one becomes aware of), processed (thought through, reasoned out, comprehended), integrated (made part of one’s operating system, one’s habitual thought processes) and utilized (lived out, experienced first hand) - therefore it may be said that enlightenment is the gathering, processing, integration and utilization of information - or put yet another way, enlightenment is information that has been received, understood, assimilated and acted upon. Once acted upon, enlightenment builds neuro-passageways throughout the brain that can then be passed down from generation to generation via the genetic building blocks of heredity. Genetic material is a vehicle, a carrier – a carrier that can be made us of, where enlightenment is concerned.

.

However one might wish to slice it, we are the product of a higher order – who that higher order is, and what that product (which we are) might be then, are the questions at hand.

Understanding that we have an ‘intellectual ceiling’ to contend with, places us within a quandary – that is, how best to understand our situation given our inherent ‘intellectual ceiling’.

The first step is to understand the existence of that ceiling (i.e., as being genetically part and parcel of our own humanness – inherent to our species).

Doubting the existence of our intellectual ceiling, in effect, makes the supposition that our intellect is limitless.

The hierarchical nature of intelligence can be viewed as the stages through which we progress from early childhood to latter adulthood.

" As children, we never imagined what we didn’t know ".

There is no magic here, ‘spiritual enlightenment’ may spark the fire, but it takes good old fashion genetics to keep it burning, maintaining the flame as it were (i.e., to 'hold' the frequency which intelligence is).

Magic is only so until the principle behind it is revealed. Atoms, only recently discovered, have always existed – so too aliens, those beings that some prior civilizations have deemed to be gods.

Atoms aren’t the smallest components that exist and aliens aren’t gods; so-called magic operates on principles under which the entire universe must function.

It is simply a lack of knowledge (e.g., ignorance) that leads us toward placing those things unknown in ‘God’s hands’ or at ‘magic’s door’.

There is an inherent problem in discussing those beings possessing intelligence higher than our own, and that is, how do we imagine any intelligence greater than our own? We know that it exists, but how do we push past the ceiling of our own limits? How do we imagine what it’s like?

The truth is we can’t, namely because the limit of our own intelligence, is what limits our imaging anything greater.

How do monkeys imagine our intelligence? How do they imagine our thought and cognitive properties? How do they imagine we reason? How would they reason out our higher intelligence?

There is a ceiling that we all face when trying to comprehend those beings of higher intelligence. This ceiling is something that we will never get past. The best we can hope for is to realize that the ceiling exists.

.

Hello Mystech,

Thanks for your comments - genetics has moved way beyond what we have all learned in high school biology. In fact, it is changing at such an accelerated rate, that a lot of what we’ve learned in college is becoming outdated as well.

What separates all of us, one from another, in a word is genetics. It provides us with our traits and tendencies. Naturally, our environment is responsible for some of our individual tendencies or behavioral patterns as well.

Woodpeckers tend to bang their heads against trees, whereas robins don’t – the woodpecker’s tendency is genetic in nature. I can assure you that there is no magic associated with this behavior pattern whatsoever.

Genetics is responsible for chemical and hormonal patterns as well genetic traits and tendencies within the individual.

Cheers.

Woodpeckers tend to bang their heads against trees...Not actually the case... aside from this minor innacuracy, how do
you determine that this behavior is innate rather than learned?

:m: Peace.

Hello goofyfish,

It's been a year or so since I was last here, but I do remember us having several interesting conversations.

If it were simply a learned response, other birds would learn to do, by observation and assimilation, those things that only woodpeckers do. No tendencies exist in other birds (for the most part) to do those things that woodpeckers do. Prevalent tendencies are genetic in nature. Within genetics, or housed within the genetic structure, lies the blueprint by which things function.

As an example, if you are a man or a woman you have prevalent tendencies (genetically based) typically associated with your sex. No need to discuss variations within each sex at this point.

But my real comments spoke more toward the role of genetics and our acknowledgement of their import in our lives - everything from plants to animals is based on genetics. It is the means by which those things created are able to follow their design parameters, their blueprint if you will.

We did not create ourselves, nor did we create our presence here; we are here at the pleasure of our higher self.

To think then, that we have any control whatsoever over the events which we encounter, which intersect with and shape our lives, is simply an illusion – howbeit a more profound one than our imaginations can ever hope to grasp, no doubt.

What is it then that the higher self intends to accomplish by having us here?

Intelligence, by its very nature, wants to be discovered, it desires to be known. Intelligence, rather than a state or quantifiable quantity, is an entity, a being in much the same way that we are entities.

Intelligence inhabits, co-existing with, as it were, other entities, other beings and life forms throughout the universe. We are used to those life forms, which are familiar to us, but our lack of exposure to other life forms should not limit our acknowledgement of the possibility (e.g., the probability) of their existence.

We are limited by our genetic structure – there is indeed a ceiling to our attainable level of intellect, based on human genetics. A computer may be adjusted to over-clock its CPU (Central Processing Unit, or brain), but it can’t turn a Pentium 3 into a Pentium 4 – there are structural, or design limits. So too with humans, our genetic structure limits our ability to become enlightened. Abductees have been genetically altered primarily to enhance their absorption of information pertaining to that enlightenment process dictated by our Keepers or Handlers.

There is a practical aspect to all physical creatures (i.e., all have their design limits), Grey’s and Keepers included. They too are genetically based – it’s simply that we know nothing of this matter.

By the way, we humans can’t fly or breathe water either – that would take the altering of our basic genetic structure as well.

Genetic structure establishes, by its very nature, parameters with which it follows. Trains operate on tracks, lay the track and the train in turn has a means, a parameter, in which to operate. Creator gods, for lack of a more universally recognizable or mutually agreed upon term, create with the means that they are familiar with, the material with which they have at hand, the building blocks as it were, that they are used to working with; in our case genetic material. Once designed, genetically based systems can be tweaked or altered, primarily by genetic manipulation, but also by the effects, or influences, of time and environment as well (as a side note here, the genetic systems ability to be effected by environmental influences over time, was and is a feature or aspect designed in to these very systems from the start).

It takes creators to create, environmental influences merely define and refine those creations that were created – environmental influences do not, in and of themselves, create.

.

Originally posted by Jocariah
If it were simply a learned response, other birds would learn to do, by observation and assimilation, those things that only woodpeckers do. No tendencies exist in other birds (for the most part) to do those things that woodpeckers do. Prevalent tendencies are genetic in nature. Within genetics, or housed within the genetic structure, lies the blueprint by which things function.

Does the same thing hold true for humans? A woodpecker survives by finding insects in treebark, I survive by working with computers, yet my ability to put a together, and operate a computer are not inherent. A human is not born with the skills needed to earn it's livelyhood, only learned behavior can make a person survive.

Originally posted by Jocariah
We did not create ourselves, nor did we create our presence here; we are here at the pleasure of our higher self.


What exactly is the "higher self"? Remember, if it is truely science, then it doesn't need faith. . . but then I'm sure that you must be aware that there is a reason you are posting this in the pseudoscience board, and not one of the acctual science forums.

Originally posted by Mystech
What exactly is the "higher self"? Remember, if it is truely science, then it doesn't need faith. . . .

Hello again,

That's a good question - let me think about that one.

When discussing the higher self, or that part of self that is eternal, or never-ending, as opposed to the temporal aspect of self, it is difficult to agree on what terminology to use without taking into account one’s paradigm or belief system.

Surely the higher self exits, nearly all of us seem to be aware that the physical part of self is merely here for a season, and that we are more, much more than the physical body, but what is the higher self, and how does one’s soul or spirit, terms, which we have heard so often bandied about, figure into the mix?

First of all, things are the way they are, and no amount of intellectual reasoning will every change or alter that in any way whatsoever. What is – is. Secondly, it is our perception of what exists universally that differs, not in fact, what it is that does exist. Our inability to explain or reason out anything, changes nothing. Those things that are in existence are in existence - period. How we explain these things really comes down to our use of language coupled with our belief system or paradigm, which we hold as being, in effect (or in computer parlance), our operating system.

Pick a belief system, a frame of reference, and in so doing one automatically chooses the terms used to explain that eternal part of self. Typically, we choose are terminology based on our belief system.

Thirdly, our intellect or mental ability, by way of our genetic structure, is limited. We, all 6 BILLION of us, can only reason, only understand as human’s reason, as humans understand. And human understanding is not limitless; it is in fact based on genetics, just as the chimp’s intellect is based on its genetic structure, so too it is with humans. Certainly humans may have intellect higher or lower relative to one another, as the case may be, but it always falls within a range or mean – that is, that of all human intellect. We never see our intellect as being limited, or having a ceiling – but it does. The problem is that we are not familiar with those beings whose intellect is greater than our own – rather only those beings or creatures processing an intellect less than our own.

Well, except maybe those of us known of as abductees – we indeed are familiar with those creatures possessing an intellect greater than our own. So then, it is by first hand experience, that we, those of us known of as abductees, have arrived where we are.

Enlightenment is based on information - knowing first hand that our species is not the sharpest tool in the shed, is indeed information. Coming to that information by first hand interaction or experience, rather than intellectualizing about it, is a tumultuous affair at best, but then enlightenment can at times, be a messy business.

Cheers

Jocariah:

<i>Once acted upon, enlightenment builds neuro-passageways throughout the brain that can then be passed down from generation to generation via the genetic building blocks of heredity.</i>

Really? How does this happen? It sounds very Lamarckian to me. How can learned experience get into our genes? There is no evidence at present that such a thing is possible.

Originally posted by James R
... How can learned experience get into our genes? There is no evidence at present that such a thing is possible.

Why is it that every successive generation is more enlightened than the one preceding it?

Is it magic?

The ability of a species to evolve is written within the blueprint of its genetic code. This is widely known, and in fact is termed ‘evolution’.

Surely you are not attempting to debate evolution with me.

Why is it that every successive generation is more enlightened than the one preceding it?

Really, are they? How do you measure enlightenment?

Hello kazakhan,

Enlightenment is evolutionary; it evolves. Because of the evolutionary nature of enlightenment, its actual evolution can easily be lost on the observer.

Are we, as a society for example, more enlightened as it pertains to race? Of course, even if we are still biased toward race, and I’m not, at this point, insinuating that we are or are not, we are profoundly more aware of it than we were just 50 or 60 years ago.

The root, the essence or quintessence of enlightenment is information. It is the engine that drives the car. A car is more than its engine, of course there are other facets to the car as well, but it is the engine by which the car is powered. So too with enlightenment – it is information which powers enlightenment.

Another example might be the way in which we treat prisoners – are we, on the whole, more aware, more informed, regarding the way in which we treat those individuals which we incarcerate than we were 50 or 60 years ago? Of course we are.

What about the rights of woman?

What about gays?

This is an evolutionary process we are all involved in.

Cheers

BTW, our inability to measure something does not in and of itself negate its existence.

Are we, as a society for example, more enlightened as it pertains to race? Of course, even if we are still biased toward race, and I’m not, at this point, insinuating that we are or are not, we are profoundly more aware of it than we were just 50 or 60 years ago.

Yes we are more aware of it, but that is because of langauge, in particular written history. So if you take that away, soon enough this "enlightened" knowledge would be lost.
What about the rights of woman?
What about gays?

Rights? Surely you must be joking?

quote:The root, the essence or quintessence of enlightenment is information. It is the engine that drives the car. A car is more than its engine, of course there are other facets to the car as well, but it is the engine by which the car is powered. So too with enlightenment – it is information which powers enlightenment.

The car analogy is all very well but it is the "petrol" which actually moves the car...the petrol, synthesis of reason and intuition, which will help you rationlize the information which creates Enlightenment .
In world standard level of Enlightenment we are still at the stage of a horse and cart anyone got a shovel!!.

Cell phones and computers - consider the difference that these appliances have made in our lives, how far we've come in terms of becoming more connected with each other in just the last twenty or so years.

We are becoming more connected with each other.

Originally posted by Jocariah
Why is it that every successive generation is more enlightened than the one preceding it?

Is it magic?

The ability of a species to evolve is written within the blueprint of its genetic code. This is widely known, and in fact is termed ‘evolution’.

Surely you are not attempting to debate evolution with me.

Yes, I believe that James R would want to debate evolution with you, because, as he said you are subscribing to a strange version of evolution not unlike the Lamarckian model. This being a theory of evolution which predates Darwin's and essentially says that a child will be "better" than it's parents, based upon challenges which the parent encounters in it's life. For instance, I believe that it was part of the Lamarckian theory that giraffes got their long necks, because much older generations of giraffe strived to get food from high places, and so their children were born with longer necks to facilitate this process.

Essentially Lamarckian evolution is complete bunk, and using it to support an idea that you'd like to pass off as scientific is just laughable.

Just out of curiosity are you, with all of this nonsense, attempting to create an explanation for why alien abdicates are generally more intelligent, wealthy, and generally successful then other people? It certainly seems that this should be the case if you were correct, however I simply can't see that that is actually the case.

Mystech,

Thanks for taking the time to comment - I enjoyed reading your remarks.

Originally posted by Mystech
Just out of curiosity are you, with all of this nonsense, attempting to create an explanation for why alien abdicates are generally more intelligent, wealthy, and generally successful then other people? It certainly seems that this should be the case if you were correct, however I simply can't see that that is actually the case.

Is a man with a doctorate in astrophysics "more intelligent, wealthy, and generally [more] successful then other people?"

He has no doubt received a lot of programming at the hands of his professors.

Probably not - just more enlightened about astrophysics, which may or may not pertain to his daily life.

Abductees are more enlightened as a result of their programming at the hands of their keepers, those abductors that all abductees have. We, through no effort on our part, have been genetically altered and programmed (i.e., enlightened) - this programming may or may not apply to our daily lives.

The ideas I express here are simply my ideas - I don't have a vested interest in them, nor do I particularly feel the need to defend them. They are after all simply ideas, capable of standing or falling on their own.

Cheers

Originally posted by Jocariah
Abductees are more enlightened as a result of their programming at the hands of their keepers, those abductors that all abductees have. We, through no effort on our part, have been genetically altered and programmed (i.e., enlightened) - this programming may or may not apply to our daily lives.


Ok, then, what, in your own opinionl, are the symptoms of this "enlightenment"? What serves to set these people apart from others?

Originally posted by Mystech
Ok, then, what, in your own opinionl, are the symptoms of this "enlightenment"? What serves to set these people apart from others?

Hello again Mystech,

That's a good question. 'Symptoms' is an interesting choice of words.

Women give birth - men don't. Being a man, there is no amount of book learning or first hand interrogation of women that have given birth, that one could possibly do to enlighten one about the birthing process - none.

Some things simply need to be experienced to be understood.

Body learning – experiencing things with the whole of the physical body, can never be circumvented.

If this were not the case, we would have all simply intellectualize about incarnating here – but we didn’t. We came here to experience those things through the physical body that can only be learned by experiencing them through the physical body.

Cheers

That really doesn't answer the question. Let me rephrase it a little. What is the phenomenon that your theory is trying to explain?

Originally posted by Mystech
... What is the phenomenon that your theory is trying to explain?

Please forgive my ignorance ; it appears that I don’t fully understand your question – in particular, your use of the word ‘phenomenon’.

I am here out of curiosity – the ideas I express are simply ideas, nothing more.

The word phenomenon has a multitude of meanings and connotations - I'd rather not assume your intent with respect to your use of the word.

As I often use the word, whether accurately or not, it connotes a ‘singular event’. In this case there is no singular event, of which I am aware, with respect to the ideas that I have expressed here.

There is and remains a way of seeing, of discerning those things that appear before us. Coming to anything that lies before us with an open mind, a mind devoid of any preconceived notions whatsoever is the only way to discern anything of significance.

Those questions that we have, rather those answers that we seek, are available to us through the tearing down, the putting aside of what it is that we know or have known in the past. For you see, our past acts to limit us by framing what it is that we are seeing “now”, in the present. By so doing, that is by coming to what it is that we are seeing devoid of preconceptions, or any preconceived notions whatsoever, we allow those things sought, to reveal themselves to us.

Entities exist in forms that we may never (in this lifetime) imagine, or come to appreciate in any real or significant way.

Those that are of a critical nature, that is to say, critical in their observations, will never see that the intellect is only for the assembling of a matter after it is inhaled by the greater being – the self, as it exists in its entirety.

The intellect was never designed to carry the being, but rather to assemble the information once collected.

There is indeed a system in place that hides enlightenment from those that lack the wisdom of self – it is not withheld for any other reason than out of respect for what is at hand. For even enlightenment is an entity that chooses to whom it would reveal itself.

Lacking an understanding of what it is that entities are, will never excuse one from the principles at hand

One must set one's own agenda then, an agenda particular to one's own well being - for there is no sense of well being possible, by having one's agenda set by another; whether or not that decision is a conscious one.

It is important then to remember, that we do not find what it is that we seek, but rather, what we seek is revealed to us once we understand that what we seek are indeed themselves entities, who given the chance, are desirous to be discovered.

So it can be said: "Intelligence, by its very nature, wants to be discovered, it desires to be known."

There again, our responsibility in this endeavor is simply to come to what it is that we seek with an open mind, that is a mind devoid of any preconceived notions, or ideas whatsoever.

.

By so doing, that is by coming to what it is that we are seeing devoid of preconceptions, or any preconceived notions whatsoever,
Language itself is filled with preconceptions & preconceived notions is it not?
we allow those things sought, to reveal themselves to us.
Is not "those things sought" a preconceived notion?
There is indeed a system in place that hides enlightenment from those that lack the wisdom of self – it is not withheld for any other reason than out of respect for what is at hand. For even enlightenment is an entity that chooses to whom it would reveal itself.
Is it me or is your definition of enlightenment changing? A system in place, an entity? Are talking about something tangbile now?
Whats the rest of your fluff got to do with enlightenment? What happened to abductees being more enlightened?
Maybe I should find me an UFO, I've lost it????:D

Hello Kazakhan,

My underlying point was that we tend ‘not’ to think outside the box when it comes to our perception, or preconceived notions of what entities are. Why is that? For instance, are we entities outside of our physicality? Most seem to think that we are, acknowledging that we are indeed more than our physical bodies alone.

Is it then that our consciousness is an entity?

Lsd isnt good for you Jocariah.....im sure their are good drug recovery hotlines in your community....

Originally posted by Jocariah
Please forgive my ignorance ; it appears that I don’t fully understand your question – in particular, your use of the word ‘phenomenon’.


If it helps, just replace phenomenon, with "unexplained thing". In this instance I think it serves the same purpose.

Originally posted by Jocariah
. . .are we entities outside of our physicality? Most seem to think that we are, acknowledging that we are indeed more than our physical bodies alone.

Most of who seem to think that we are? More importantly, what evidence have they got to back up this idea? Majority opinion does not make a thing fact, which doesn't even yet matter in this instance, as we have not discerned who this claimed majority is.

Originally posted by Mystech
If it helps, just replace phenomenon, with "unexplained thing". In this instance I think it serves the same purpose.

Merriam-Webster
www.m-w.com/home.htm

Phenomenon:

1. plural phenomena : an observable fact or event
2. plural phenomena a : an object or aspect known through the senses rather than by thought or intuition b : a temporal or spatiotemporal object of sensory experience as distinguished from a noumenon c : a fact or event of scientific interest susceptible of scientific description and explanation
3. a : a rare or significant fact or event b plural phenomenons : an exceptional, unusual, or abnormal person, thing, or occurrence
usage see PHENOMENA

Yeah, those work too, go ahead and answer the question and quit dancing around with your semantics, please.

Qua is defined as follows: functioning as - 'as' - in the capacity as (in the function, character, or capacity of; as "the President 'qua' Commander in Chief")

Qua is the essence, or quintessence, of the experience, that is the experience of what it is to be human – to explore the human condition, this medium that we find ourselves in while being in or within the human physical form; for all forms are not human, nor existing in the physical realm.

We are functioning in the capacity ‘as’ human. We are not human, that is to say, that is not the extent of who we are, entirely, but rather we are functioning in the capacity ‘as’ human. Being human is how it is that we are functioning ‘as’, while all the while realizing that we are not ‘merely’ human, but something more, much, much more that just human.

Another way to say this is that we occupy our humanness temporarily – that is, for the time being, we are located within our humanness as it were, seeing those things that are only apparent, only visible during this present human experience, this present incarnation in the physical.

In such an instance as this, there is much information passing into us as we occupy your humanness, much thought is continually taking place on a subconscious level as we dwell in our humanness at this specific point in time, this specific point in the expression of our humanness – but our humanness is temporal, temporary if you will – so that to realize our ‘humanness’ is to realize the temporality of the situation entirety.

So then, besides being human, existing is this flesh and blood that we occupy - what are we?
.

What exactly has lead you to believe any of this, and why aren't you answering any of my questions?

Originally posted by Mystech
Yeah, those work too, go ahead and answer the question and quit dancing around with your semantics, please.

And what question might that be?

Originally posted by Mystech
Ok, then, what, in your own opinionl, are the symptoms of this "enlightenment"? What serves to set these people apart from others?

Originally posted by Mystech
What is the phenomenon that your theory is trying to explain?

Hello Mystech,

Mystech: Ok, then, what, in your own opinion, are the symptoms of this "enlightenment"? What serves to set these people apart from others?

Jocariah: Abductees are those who have experienced the abduction phenomena. What sets abductees apart from non-abductees is the experiencing of the abduction phenomena.

Mystech: What is the phenomenon that your theory is trying to explain?

Jocariah: I don’t see a particular event, fact or phenomenon that my ideas are trying to explain. If there is a commonality, which may be what you are alluding to, I am unaware of it, which is not to say that it doesn’t exist.

Cheers

Originally posted by Jocariah
Jocariah: I don’t see a particular event, fact or phenomenon that my ideas are trying to explain. If there is a commonality, which may be what you are alluding to, I am unaware of it, which is not to say that it doesn’t exist.


Then please tell me, what exactly all of this talk about Abductees being "more enlightend" is all about.

I was abducted once (or many times I can remember real well the mess with my head a lot) they striped me nude (that I did not like) then inserted metal needles into me from all sides (that sucked) touch a spinal tap (sucked!) shoved things up my butt (that really sucked!!!) then gave me a hummer, eer not the car (that was not that bad.). After which I felt used and traumatized and find it painful and difficult to remember, all in all where the heck is that enlightenment???

Originally posted by Mystech
Then please tell me, what exactly all of this talk about Abductees being "more enlightend" is all about.

I already have.

All things are before us for a reason. To know a matter through the intellectualizing, and to know a matter through the experiencing are two different things entirely.

If this were not so, there would be no reason for us to incarnate, we would simply sit around intellectualizing about it, at the point at which we were prior to our incarnating into the life that we now occupy.