It is said a fish's size is limited to the size of the bowl it lives in. It seems that Americans have created a very large fish bowl and people who are not American's are injoying these waters:

Foreign-born women have higher fertility rates in the United States compared with women from the same countries back home, according to a new report.
On average, women from the top 10 immigrant-sending countries have 2.9 children here in the United States, compared with 2.3 children per woman in their home countries -- a 23 percent difference, said Steve Camarota, research director for the Center for Immigration Studies, who wrote the report.

He said the difference is particularly true of Mexico, which accounts for 40 percent of U.S. immigrants. Mexican women in the United States have an average of 3.5 children, compared with 2.4 children for women in Mexico.

http://washingtontimes.com/national/20051012-104914-4729r.htm

Outbreeding and dominating with culture has always been a useful tactic. It's one of the "non-violent", highly effective, and highly overlooked means of warfare.

Heck, this is what China is doing to Russia to grab more land, it's what the Palestinians are doing to Israel to reclaim their land, and it's what the Mexicans are doing to the U.S. to reclaim their land as well.

Without trying to sound like some white supremecist racist, that's what's going to be the downfall to the "white" race. We're going to be outbred and the so-called "minorities" are going to take over through sheer numbers. Nobody ever remains superior. As Dylan says "For the loser now will be later to win, for the times they are a-changin'." Is that a bad thing? Who knows. Let's just hope whoever becomes the majority doesn't further run the world into the ground.

- N

Good for them!
They can obviously enjoy a better, healthier life here.
We should invite more in.

The Israelis have a way of preventing this and keeping their master race pure:


Chinese workers in Israel sign no-sex contract

Conal Urquhart in Tel Aviv
Wednesday December 24, 2003
The Guardian

http://www.guardian.co.uk/israel/Sto...112442,00.html


Chinese workers at a company in Israel have been forced to agree not to have sex with or marry Israelis as a condition of getting a job.
According to a contact they are required to sign, male workers may not have any contact with Israeli women - including prostitutes, a police spokesman, Rafi Yaffe, said.

He said there was nothing illegal about the requirement and that no investigation had been opened.

An Israeli lawyer who did not want to be named said while the contract might appear legal, it would be rejected if challenged in court. "The point is that a Chinese worker will agree to anything and then will not have anyone to help them if there is a problem," he said.

The labourers are also forbidden from engaging in any religious or political activity. The contract states that offenders will be sent back to China at their own expense.

About 260,000 foreigners work in Israel, having replaced Palestinian labourers during three years of fighting. When the government first allowed the entrance of the foreign workers in the late 1990s, ministers warned of a "social timebomb" caused by their assimilation with Israelis.

More than half the workers are in the country illegally. Israeli police have increased efforts to deport those working without permits because of rising Israeli unemployment, which has reached 11% in recent months.

Advocates of foreign workers, who also come from Thailand, the Philippines and Romania, say they are subject to almost slave conditions, and their employers often take away their passports and refuse to pay them.

Analysts say there is much division within Israeli society over immigration and status, although the conflict with the Palestinians has given it an appearance of unity. Recent immigrants such as Russians and Ethiopians are disliked by older immigrants, and there is much resentment among secular Israelis at the privileges given to ultra-orthodox Jews. The foreign workers are at the bottom of the pile.

It is said a fish's size is limited to the size of the bowl it lives in. It seems that Americans have created a very large fish bowl and people who are not American's are injoying these waters:

Foreign-born women have higher fertility rates in the United States compared with women from the same countries back home, according to a new report.
On average, women from the top 10 immigrant-sending countries have 2.9 children here in the United States, compared with 2.3 children per woman in their home countries -- a 23 percent difference, said Steve Camarota, research director for the Center for Immigration Studies, who wrote the report.

He said the difference is particularly true of Mexico, which accounts for 40 percent of U.S. immigrants. Mexican women in the United States have an average of 3.5 children, compared with 2.4 children for women in Mexico.

http://washingtontimes.com/national/20051012-104914-4729r.htm

I'm not sure exactly what point you are making here, but the reasons for it happening are both simple and clear.

Greatly improved pre- and post-natal care, a healthier environment and better nutrition.

Without trying to sound like some white supremecist racist, that's what's going to be the downfall to the "white" race. We're going to be outbred and the so-called "minorities" are going to take over through sheer numbers.Well you didn't succeed. You do sound like some white supremacist racist. You started out talking about Americans, who are a nation. You ended up talking about white people, who are nothing more than a group with one vaguely similar physical characteristic and an even vaguer ancestral relationship.

Condoleeza Rice, Spark Matsunaga, and Cheech Marin are indisputably Americans even though they're not "white" by your definition. America has absorbed and assimilated every people who have come here and there's no sign that we're going to stop.

In fact we're getting better at it. Immigrant groups used to retain their ethnic identity for a couple of generations--long enough for even medium sized cities to have a "Little Italy" or a "Chinatown." Today the intermarriage rate of immigrants is astoundingly high by historical standards. Apparently they love us and we love them.

All of our children will be Americans and carry on America's ever-changing traditions. It won't matter what their skin looks like.

What I mean is the simple fact that most of the leaders, and populace in this country are, well, white. Not only that, but most whites are in charge. White people, in general, are also having less and less children these days whereas other races continue to pump out a fair amount of babies. And isn't this what this topic is about? So once the current people in charge die out and retire, who happen to be white, we'll have more of a racial selection to choose from to fill their shoes as they continue to outbreed us until the minorities of today become the powers that be.

Now hey, if most of the people in our country weren't white, and if whites weren't the ones being outbred, then I wouldn't have made it sound like some racial issue. It's just a simple fact that most people in this country are white. It's why I can talk about "America" and then also speak specifically about "whites" when it comes to this country. Speaking about whites and America is no different than speaking about Chinese people and China, even though other ethnicities live there. I'm not gonna be politically correct but rather state the facts. If you wanna get your panties in a bunch over some PC lingo, go ahead and cry about it.

At least now I've learned not to put some sorta disclaimer in one's post because then it becomes some sorta "bullshit, he's lying" target. :rolleyes:

- N

Neildo, I think it's not what you pointed out, rather how.

going to be the downfall to the "white" race
...
Nobody ever remains superior.
...
"For the loser now will be later to win...

You make it sound like it "Us vs, Them".
You likely do not mean it this way, but the wording you selected sounds like you see it as a competition and we are losing ground and need to be careful or change our approach somehow.

You make it sound like it "Us vs, Them".

Well it *is* an "Us vs Them" (or rather, "them vs them") scenario, for those in charge. Do you honestly believe the "white people in charge" would want anyone else to be? Heck, it's already bad enough not wanting anyone else other than those in the same family to be in charge, let alone those of the same racial, political, or monetary group. They *do* feel "minorities" to be inferior, why else would they be called that?

But hey, that'll all change once they become the minority through being outbred. America will belong back to Mexico, Israel will belong back to Palestine, and lord knows what'll happen with India and China (although China has the same preventions whites do with their limited reproduction so they may falter to another race or country such as India).

So yeah, I could have worked on my wording, and I apologize for that, but I intentionally worded it that way to prove a point, but it just backfired making me sound like I'm part of that same group (I am white, however, I don't hold the same view) I'm making accusations of.

- N

But it *is* an "Us vs Them" (or rather, "them vs them") scenario, for those in charge. Do you honestly believe the "white people in charge" would want anyone else to be? Heck, it's already bad enough not wanting anyone else other than those in the same family to be in charge, let alone those of the same racial, political, or monetary group. They *do* feel "minorities" to be inferior, why else would they be called that? But hey, that'll all change once they become the minority through being outbred. Mexico will belong back to America, Israel will belong back to Palestine, and lord knows what'll happen with India and China (although China has the same preventions whites do with their limited reproduction so they may falter to another race or country such as India).

So yeah, I could have worked on my wording, and I apologize for that, but I intentionally worded it that way to prove a point, but it just backfired making me sound like I'm part of that same group (I am white, however, I don't hold the same view) I'm making accusations of.

- N

There's quite a bit of truth in what you're saying. Even though it's been a long time since the 1960s, there's still a large number of Caucasian people who feel threatened by other races. It was Black at first, then Mexicans were added to the list, and now Asians as well. The backlash against Blacks has lessened considerably over the years but is now being directed toward the other groups more and more.

fucking mexican half breeds
who the hell are they anyway?
fucking wannabe colonistas thats what
them and their nativistic pretensions
hypocrites!

There's quite a bit of truth in what you're saying. Even though it's been a long time since the 1960s, there's still a large number of Caucasian people who feel threatened by other races. It was Black at first, then Mexicans were added to the list, and now Asians as well. The backlash against Blacks has lessened considerably over the years but is now being directed toward the other groups more and more.

the "other" was never exclusively defined by race
the anglos felt threatened by all new immigrant groups at one point or another

the "other" was never exclusively defined by race
the anglos felt threatened by all new immigrant groups at one point or another

That's not necessarily correct. Yes, there were a few scattered problems with Europeans but by and large they were accepted without much a problem. Why? because they didn't look any different. If a fellow from Poland or Ireland was on the street, no one really noticed because they looked like everyone else. Especially 2nd generation. But the same cannot be said of Blacks, Mexicans, or Asians.

That's not necessarily correct. Yes, there were a few scattered problems with Europeans but by and large they were accepted without much a problem. Why? because they didn't look any different. If a fellow from Poland or Ireland was on the street, no one really noticed because they looked like everyone else. Especially 2nd generation. But the same cannot be said of Blacks, Mexicans, or Asians.
Sorry, Light, you are wrong about that one.
Look at NYC (where the majority of immigrants came into this country) at the beginning of the 20th century.
Every new wave of immigrants experienced horrible discrimination and oppression by the PRIOR wave of immigrants.
They had to take the crap jobs if they could find jobs at all.
Most of them ended up forming gangs and turning to crime to make ends meet, which, of course, brought them further insults and discrimination.
Once a new wave of immigrants came in, that prior wave was bumped up a notch, got "real" jobs and let the shit roll downhill.
It happened to the Irish, the Italians, Polish, Russians, Germans, Puerto Ricans...
It is still happening.
If you want to know what the latest wave of immigrants to hit the city was, hail a cab.

Sorry, Light, you are wrong about that one.
Look at NYC (where the majority of immigrants came into this country) at the beginning of the 20th century.
Every new wave of immigrants experienced horrible discrimination and oppression by the PRIOR wave of immigrants.
They had to take the crap jobs if they could find jobs at all.
Most of them ended up forming gangs and turning to crime to make ends meet, which, of course, brought them further insults and discrimination.
Once a new wave of immigrants came in, that prior wave was bumped up a notch, got "real" jobs and let the shit roll downhill.
It happened to the Irish, the Italians, Polish, Russians, Germans, Puerto Ricans...
It is still happening.
If you want to know what the latest wave of immigrants to hit the city was, hail a cab.

Nope, not wrong. NYC was one of the major exceptions I was talking about. You didn't see those problems when the Dutch moved into Penn. and Wisconsin, the Germans into Ohio and Michigan... I could go on and on.

I disagree.
Just about every town and city I have been to has ethnic sections if there is a mix, and they want it to stay that way.
If a wave of Russians move into Polish section or town, they get treated like foreigners there to bring down the community.
They are outsiders.
They are there to steal their jobs, and date their daughters.
Those no-good alcoholic bums!
They are different religiously, culturally etc. and "different", far too often, equates to "worse".
White may just look white to you, but show a Pole a Russian, and he will know the nationality (even before the Russian speaks).

The reason they refer to Lancaster County as Pennsylvania Dutch Country is because it was (and to some extent still is) homogenous.
The Dutch did not move and peacefully integrate into a largely Albanian section of Pennsylvania. They SETTLED a large section of Pennsylvania.
It was the same story for much of the ethnic European area of the country.
The Germans who settled in Minnesota in the late 1800's were largely homesteaders settling entire communities (many of which are STILL largely Germanic).

I'm not sure exactly what point you are making here, but the reasons for it happening are both simple and clear.

Greatly improved pre- and post-natal care, a healthier environment and better nutrition.If that was the case then the birth rates for ALL people would be the same.

In my opinion, I believe this is one example of why some country's are "third world" country's. It is a case of maxing out and abusing resources, the birth rates of Mexican women could never be achived in Mexico like they are in America.

In America they have the American people to help share the burden, the American people have a "first world" country because they have not maxed out or abuse there resources.

If that was the case then the birth rates for ALL people would be the same.


An incorrect assumption. The reason it's not true is that the majority of Americans started limiting the size of their families quite sometime ago.

An incorrect assumption. The reason it's not true is that the majority of Americans started limiting the size of their families quite sometime ago.
That is my point, as I wrote just above your comment:

"the American people have a "first world" country because they have not maxed out or abuse there resources".

Outbreeding and dominating ... it's what the Palestinians are doing to Israel to reclaim their land, and it's what the Mexicans are doing to the U.S. to reclaim their land as well. - N
This is where you lost me. Israel has expanded its territories every year for the past 40 years. Palestinians die in far larger numbers than they breed, so far from reclaiming land, they're not even holding even.
And the "mexicans" never left so they're not reclaiming the land,
they never gave it up.

It is said a fish's size is limited to the size of the bowl it lives in. It seems that Americans have created a very large fish bowl and people who are not American's are injoying these waters:

Me::NOT Americans? thought immigrants who settle there become American citizens?

Foreign-born women have higher fertility rates in the United States compared with women from the same countries back home, according to a new report.
On average, women from the top 10 immigrant-sending countries have 2.9 children here in the United States, compared with 2.3 children per woman in their home countries -- a 23 percent difference, said Steve Camarota, research director for the Center for Immigration Studies, who wrote the report.

He said the difference is particularly true of Mexico, which accounts for 40 percent of U.S. immigrants. Mexican women in the United States have an average of 3.5 children, compared with 2.4 children for women in Mexico.

http://washingtontimes.com/national/20051012-104914-4729r.htm
so what you sayin? hmmmmmmmmmm scratches chin ......ohh i goddit. you sayin you white Americans are being obver run by brown immigrat chillen ....roiighht?

em who was the poples who invaded the States and multiplyed. forgot them? you know te ones who did genocide on te Native Americans who knew how to self regulate their population rates....

That is my point, as I wrote just above your comment:

"the American people have a "first world" country because they have not maxed out or abuse there resources".

Forgive me, but I don't see how that relates to your statement that "the birthrates for ALL people would be the same."

And...how many kids do you have again, J.B?
(foreign-born women are Americans, too, you know)

the west is bieng consumed from within the mighty elephant can be defeated by the ant. the east will rise not that i condone this :) or do i.

Eastern countries like Japan, with little immigration, are forced to import foriegn workers, since the Japanese are too racist to allow regular immigration. As their populations age, there are fewer and fewer to care for the elderly. We should thank immigrants for their contributions, we need them.

Travis, that Israeli law is horrible. See how bad things get when we try to compensate for racism? It doesn't work.

It is said a fish's size is limited to the size of the bowl it lives in. It seems that Americans have created a very large fish bowl and people who are not American's are injoying these waters:

Indeed, give America back to the Indians....you american invader of indian country.

Why? because they didn't look any different. If a fellow from Poland or Ireland was on the street, no one really noticed because they looked like everyone else., Light

The major notice taken to the wave of Mexican immigrants has less to do with the noticable color of skin then it has to do with the immense numbers of their migration.

Mexicans are entering the country at a rate far higher than at any point in the history of the country (by percentage, not by numbers), and may be double the rate of that in the late 1800's and early 1900's. The mass migration is creating huge immigrant neighborhoods that are extremely poor. If you speak English only,and walk through some of these rather large enclaves, you would feel extremely uncomfortable entering shops that no longer even attempt to use your native language.

The concept that a good mix of people coming into a country is healthy, normally is a valid point. When the migrants come in at such tremendous numbers that they create a seperate nation within a nation,however, it becomes poison. Nations have time and time again been torn apart by competing cultures. Canada, for instance, has regularly voted on whether or not to break apart. Other nations have far more violent conflicts.

National immigration quotas establish a migration number that would create a healthy growth to the overall population rate. When illegal migration creates an excess, it will never have a positive result. The brown color has little to do with the creating immigration fears, but rather the very real concept that another culture are coming in such high numbers, that it will be impossible to assimilate the foreigners into ones own country.

Asians, as you have mentioned, are of a different color but with the exception of Muslims, have caused little notice. That is because they are usually educated, come in by legal means, and actually average a higher salary then their white counterparts. Whites are not afraid of "brown" or a difference in appearance, but are in fear of another culture dominating their own.

The descendents of immigrants from Mexico and other Hispanic nations complete substantially more schooling and have higher incomes than the generation before, according an article by Smith published in the May edition of the American Economic Review, the most prestigious and widely read scientific journal in economics. The advancement up the educational and economic ladder is similar to that seen among earlier generations of European immigrants and leaves third-generation Hispanic descendents only about 10 percent behind their white counterparts in relative incomes, Smith reported. The generation-to-generation educational gains made by Hispanic men are greater than that seen among native-born white and African American men. However, by the third generation the educational gains appear to drop off as Hispanics begin to look much like the rest of the U.S. population, the RAND research found

link (http://rand.org/news/press.03/05.22.html)

Inez and Antonio Valenzuela are a marketer's dream. Young, upwardly mobile, and ready to spend on their growing family, the Los Angeles couple in many ways reflects the 42 million Hispanics in the U.S. Age 30 and 29, respectively, with two daughters, Esmeralda, 8, and Maria Luisa, 2 months, the duo puts in long hours, working 4 p.m. to 2 a.m., six days a week, at their bustling streetside taco trailer. From a small sidewalk stand less than two years ago, they built the business into a hot destination for hungry commuters. The Valenzuelas (not their real name) bring in revenue well above the U.S. household average of $43,000, making them a solidly middle-class family that any U.S. consumer-products company would love to reach.

embracing illegals (http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/05_29/b3943001_mz001.htm)

Given the high level of out-migration from New York, immigrant flows mitigated catastrophic population losses in the 1970s, stabilized the city's population in the 1980s, and helped the city reach a new population peak of 8 million in 2000. Immigration has also had an indirect effect on the city's population growth by way of immigrant fertility, with foreign-born mothers accounting for over one-half of all births in the city. Overall, immigrants and their U.S.-born offspring account for approximately 55 percent of the city's population.

Immigrants also play a crucial role in the city's labor market, comprising 43 percent of all city residents in the labor force in 2000. In the core working ages – 25 to 54 years – between 40 and 50 percent of all city residents in the labor force were immigrants. With respect to industry, immigrants comprised a majority of employed workers in manufacturing, construction, and in many service industries.

Immigrants have also helped maintain the city's housing stock. Forty-eight percent of recently-occupied housing units were immigrant households. In the Queens neighborhoods of Elmhurst, Jackson Heights, and Woodside, over 80 percent of recently-occupied units were headed by an immigrant.

Immigration has reshaped the race/Hispanic composition of the city. While white nonhispanics were still the largest group in 2000, they comprised just 35 percent of the population, down from 63 percent in 1970. Among those under the age of 18, Hispanics were the largest group (34 percent), followed by black nonhispanics (29 percent), white nonhispanics (24 percent), Asian nonhispanics (10 percent), and those of multiracial nonhispanic backgrounds (3 percent) – a harbinger of the overall race/Hispanic composition of the city in the coming decades.

Newest New Yorkers (http://www.nyc.gov/html/dcp/html/census/nny.shtml)

Gustav, nice try with some nice happy stories. However, let us deal with reality.

The problem with Smith's study is that it is showing the progress of hispanics from generations ago. The real problem of explosive Mexican immigration is that it really has only been going on for about 15 years. I am not arguing whether hispanics are incapable of moving up as other immigrant goups have, but will be unable to now and in the future if this rate continues.

here is the reality....

http://www.census.gov/population/www/pop-profile/hisppop.html

The proportion of Hispanics 25 years old and over with less than a 5th grade education decreased from 15.6 percent in 1983 to 11.8 percent in 1993. Despite that dramatic improvement, the proportion of Hispanics with low educational attainment - less than a 5th grade education - in 1993 was more than 14 times greater than that of non-Hispanic Whites (0.8 percent).

In a similar fashion, the proportion of Hispanics 25 years old and over with high school diplomas increased from 45.7 percent in 1983 to 53.1 percent in 1993. Despite that improvement, in 1993 Hispanics were still much less likely to be high school graduates than were non-Hispanic Whites (84.1 percent).

Hispanics were much more likely to be unemployed in March 1993 (11.9 percent) than were non-Hispanic Whites (6.1 percent).

These stats were back from 1993. Illegal immigration has increased substantially since then. San Fernando valley last year, as an example almost voted to break off from Los Angeles. The reason? They no longer wanted to pay for the expenses of the city. Why? A huge influx of immigrants has substantially increased the amount of property taxes they paid. Two separate worlds, in one city. Sound familar?

As for your other stories, very heart warming. Hispanics have made strides in education and will continue to do so. It will be cheating the ones who are already here, however, if that Spanish speaking population continues to increase. It will continue to create a cultural divide if to large of a cultural seperation is made in between groups.

This is where you lost me. Israel has expanded its territories every year for the past 40 years. Palestinians die in far larger numbers than they breed, so far from reclaiming land, they're not even holding even.
And the "mexicans" never left so they're not reclaiming the land,
they never gave it up.

Just because Israel expanded it's territories due to war, it doesn't mean it can't be taken back. Look at Gaza for example. The reason why they withdrew and gave it back to the Palestinians is because there were only 5,000 Jewish settlers compared to 1.5 MILLION Palestinians in that region. They were outbred. Palestinians don't die on a faster rate than they breed.

The same thing will happen once Mexicans finally become the majority in the southern states in the U.S. Heck, already where I live, we have a 66% hispanic population, 20% I'd say are illegal immigrants straight outta Mexico. Once there's almost nothing but Mexicans, the land is theres. They'll have their own rules and laws because they'll stick by one another until eventually we'll give up like the Israeli's did in Gaza. How can you enforce laws when there's not many to enforce em and the majority wants it their own way?

Outbreeding and forcing culture on someone is a highly successful means of unofficial warfare. Heck, this is the main reason why genocides happen. It's stealthy because people don't pay much attention to it until it's too late. Heck, this is why Mexico backs all the influx of illegal immigrants and helps them get across. It's a wonderful strategy. I see, hear, and read all sorts of demonstrations and hear from Mexican officials how California and other states will once again be theres.

- N

These stats were back from 1993. Illegal immigration has increased substantially since then. San Fernando valley last year, as an example almost voted to break off from Los Angeles. The reason? They no longer wanted to pay for the expenses of the city. Why? A huge influx of immigrants has substantially increased the amount of property taxes they paid. Two separate worlds, in one city. Sound familar?



i live there
it was a bunch of rednecks from the sherman oaks homeowner association
it was in 2002
the first attempt at secession was in 1970
immigrants crowd into the sf valley as well (ne) thus solviing nothing
it gets as silly as this.....

Many neighborhoods of Los Angeles in the San Fernando Valley have 'seceded' from one another in the form of renaming and reforming known community boundaries. Groups are motivated by the desire to disassociate themselves from undesirable connotations that some communities have inherited and, in the process, increase property values. Lake Balboa recently broke away from Van Nuys. Valley Village and Valley Glen separated from North Hollywood. West Hills and Winnetka from Canoga Park. Arleta succesfully broke off from Pacoima but thwarted in its attempts to carve out a separate ZIP code. None of the communities have actual governmental authority.

as to your "happy stories/heartwarming"
big balls eh?

The problem with Smith's study is that it is showing the progress of hispanics from generations ago. [/url]

liar
be specific and quote

liar
be specific and quote, Gustav

Smith’s analysis paints a far more optimistic portrait of Hispanic immigrants that looks similar to other ethnic groups. For example, Mexican immigrants born early in the early 20th century had an average four years of schooling. Their American-born sons doubled that schooling, with the third generation descendents graduating from high school.

So you think that third generation he speaks of is regarding the immigrants after the late 80's?

Similar income gains are seen over time. Hispanic male immigrants born in the late 1890s earned just 55 percent as much over their lifetimes as native-born white men, according to Smith’s research. That wage gap narrowed to 25 percent for Hispanic immigrants’ U.S.-born sons and to 16 percent for the third generation.

Now he is going is far back as 1890? Is this an accurate assesment of the recent wave of immigration? It is just common sense that if a group comes in to large of numbers, assimilation becomes more difficult. Perhaps you should read your own article before designating me a liar.....

Another problem is the lie that illegal immigrants give back more in taxes than they use. Here is an article claiming migrant workers add 29 billion in taxes to California's economy.

http://www.digitalnpq.org/archive/2004_spring/fuentes.html

All of this is false. California earmarks a billion dollars a year to educate the children of immigrants. But if it were to do otherwise—listen up, Schwarzenegger—the state would lose $16 billion a year in federal aid to education. Similarly, Mexican migrant workers pay $29 billion a year more in taxes than the services they receive.


The problem with that is California's entire agriculture directly earns only 28 billion a year.

http://www.cdfa.ca.gov/exec/pa/cdfa_history.htm


Agriculture is a major industry for the Golden State. With 88,000 farms and ranches, California agriculture is nearly a $28 billion dollar industry that generates $100 billion in related economic activity.

Are the migrant workers making 100 billion, paying 28 billion in taxes, in a 28 billion dollar industry? The vast majority of migrant workers work in agriculture only. Most of the rest in construction. See were the lies come in? Those advocating free immigration have a tendecy to do that , because they assume they will gain political power.

Towards,
You are 110% correct, here is a article that gives a good taste of the reality of this subject:

A Warning To Americans
http://www.sierratimes.com/archive/starticles/2001/mar/arrn031201.htm

Today's News


Bush vows to oust 'every single' illegal
By Stephen Dinan and Bill Sammon
THE WASHINGTON TIMES
October 19, 2005


President Bush said yesterday that his goal is eventually to expel "every single" illegal alien from the United States as his administration pressed Congress to pass a guest-worker program.
Although conceding that the administration cannot immediately deport the estimated 11 million illegal aliens who are here, Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff and Labor Secretary Elaine L. Chao told Congress that a temporary-worker program would give aliens an incentive to come out of hiding and let them work legally for six years before being forced to return home.
As Mr. Bush signed the homeland security spending bill yesterday, he said Congress should couple a guest-worker plan with increased border security.
"We're going to get control of our borders," he said during the signing ceremony in the East Room. "Our goal is clear -- to return every single illegal entrant, with no exceptions."
It was a far cry from the president's usual rhetoric on illegal immigration, which focuses on the need to reunite families and provide labor for companies. Since taking office, Mr. Bush has called for relaxing rules so that illegals from Mexico can remain in the U.S. to take unpopular jobs.
The sudden hard line comes as Mr. Bush is trying to assuage his conservative political base, much of which is upset over his nomination of White House counsel Harriet Miers to the U.S. Supreme Court.
Mr. Bush said the government has to stop illegal entrance in the first place, needs to improve its ability to catch illegal aliens who have crossed, and must ensure that those who are caught are deported.
But even as he talked tough on illegal immigration, he continued to lobby for a program that would allow foreign workers to legally cross the border to fill U.S. jobs temporarily.

http://www.washtimes.com/national/20051019-121035-2494r.htm

So the plan is to get rid of all illegals, by just making them all legal?

The increasing population of the minorities in states such as California and Texas is a good thing. It is expected that they will become the majority sometime in the near future.

And thus, we will learn to get along with them.

I think Bush just wants to create a permanent underclass that can be deported at any time. He probably would like all inhabitants of the United States to have that same status.

So the plan is to get rid of all illegals, by just making them all legal?

radical...you would have expected that he would have had them all executed.

radical...you would have expected that he would have had them all executed.
Nooo, if Bush executed them, who would do all that unitelligent slave labor for the rich?

The increasing population of the minorities in states such as California and Texas is a good thing. It is expected that they will become the majority sometime in the near future., Facial

The problem is not getting along with them if they become a majority. The problem is the fact that they are low wage earners with a low level of education, migrating in vast quantities.

They will not be able to find work because of this lack of education, and become a strain on the system. The educational system will not be able to keep up with such a strain, as well. What you will get is large enclaves of crime and gangs, for this is what poverty stricken people with little education do.

Take a look at Brazil, were the wealthy in many cities must drive around in bullet proof cars, and you will witness the future of California. It is not the fact that the hispanic population is not as smart, or not hard workers. It is the fact that they are coming from a third world country in such large numbers, that they will not receive the chance they deserve.

towards

you sound reasonable and make decent propositions
thus i must concur with much of what you say

besides, peasants really irritate the fuck out of me (especially when they start breeding like rabbits)

i wonder if i should rant
perhaps include jb's litter as well

what was it, jb"

"5 beautiful kids"?

Nooo, if Bush executed them, who would do all that unitelligent slave labor for the rich?

Forgot about that...

what was it, jb"

"5 beautiful kids"?
Yes, it is five beautiful kids, once I got married I had a great feeling of wanting a large family and my wife and I knew we would have to work very hard so we would be able to support five beautiful kids in what we believe is a safe, comfortable and healthy manner, without being a burden to others on this great place we call earth.

You see Gustav, it is the ability to plan your life out so that you don't have to be a burden on others just to survive, it is a clear sign of intelligence.

What I see as the plan from a great numbers of "immigrants" is to compleatly act in a abusive manner just to take advantage of others.

Gustav, did you even read the article?

I think you should read this quote:

"The report also says female illegal aliens average 3.1 children, while female legal immigrants average 2.6. Mr. Camarota said the difference is due mainly to their education level and cultural values.
Cecilia Munoz, vice president for research and policy at the National Council of La Raza, said the issue is timing.
"What's happening demographically is immigrants tend to come to the United States in their best working years, which also happen to be their prime childbearing years," she said. "It's about when they come. If you're comparing apples to apples, fertility rates tend to be slightly higher, but not hugely so."
Yesterday's report was the second from the center dealing with immigrant births. In July, the center released a study that found nearly a quarter of all births in the country in 2002 were to immigrants. And 42 percent of those, amounting to 383,000 births, were to illegal aliens".

What does that information up there mean to you? What does it tell you?

By the way the term used in the article "La Raza" in english it means "the race".

That they are more fit.

What does that information up there mean to you? What does it tell you?

By the way the term used in the article "La Raza" in english it means "the race".

peasants attempting to legitimize their stay here by giving birth to american citizens and supplementing thier income by living off their children's income.

as for mecha and their la raza crap, i fuck with them every chance i can get

So the plan is to get rid of all illegals, by just making them all legal?

By giving them a temporary work pass, the government gains more information on the workers so that when it does come time to deport them, they're easier to track down than if they were working here illegally as they are now. Who knows, maybe some kinda tracking chip will be discreetly implanted in them without their knowledge.

- N

Yes, it is five beautiful kids, once I got married I had a great feeling of wanting a large family and my wife and I knew we would have to work very hard so we would be able to support five beautiful kids in what we believe is a safe, comfortable and healthy manner, without being a burden to others on this great place we call earth.

i, a representative of the native peoples of this land, request your immediate withdrawal from this great place to whence you came

will you comply?
will you grab the wife and litter and be on your way and never return?

i, a representative of the native peoples of this land, request your immediate withdrawal from this great place to whence you came
Who will fill all those casinos your people are so proud of?

Without money, they don't need casinos.

Who will fill all those casinos your people are so proud of?

i rather you concern youself with your new life back in europe
begone foreign invader

take your mixed breeds with you as well
no longer will our race be contaminated by the foulness and disease of the caucasoid.

hear me all!
nigs, pakis spics and kikes and whatnot
you are not welcome
return back to your respective homelands
our bloodlines must be separate
as will be our development

i, a representative of the native peoples of this land, request your immediate withdrawal from this great place to whence you came

We whipped your asses once, are you looking to get your asses whopped again????

Baron Max

the infiltration of the native is widespread and at all levels of govt and society
your cities will be leveled using your own weapons
you, max, are reserved a special fate

we shall scalp you while you sleep

Are you sure, Gustav, that you still know how to make stone arrowheads?? :)

Baron Max

our ancestors will teach us the old ways :D

our ancestors will teach us the old ways

Wasn't it the "old ways" that got y'all killed the first time around? ...and you want to try the same things all again?

Baron Max

i rather you concern youself with your new life back in europe
begone foreign invader

take your mixed breeds with you as well
no longer will our race be contaminated by the foulness and disease of the caucasoid.

hear me all!
nigs, pakis spics and kikes and whatnot
you are not welcome
return back to your respective homelands
our bloodlines must be separate
as will be our developmentCome on, the indians gave up there land for wiskey.

Look at the "proud" indians, still today they sell there souls for alcohol and gambling the two things that they let destroy themselves, and all this with whites changing laws due to the pity for them.

Indians cry about there image with sports teams, but are so proud of there image with a casino.

I'm impressed.

Wasn't it the "old ways" that got y'all killed the first time around? ...and you want to try the same things all again?

Baron Max

ahh
but you cacausoids, by some freakish miracle, got civilized and threw off the old barbaric ways. the rule of law is respected, imperialism and genocide discarded...etc

of course, you and jb are hold outs. the dregs of your culture. while you may cling to the old ways of conquest, colonization and genocide, there are reasoned voices within your race that will punish you for transgressions of the new peaceful and enlighted paradigm now adopted

i have confidence that we will be left alone.
leave now
enjoy your new home and we shall do the same

in the name of all the indigeneous peoples, we reclaim this land for our Indian nations. We feel this claim is just and proper, and that this land rightfully belongs to us. as long as the rivers run and the sun shall shine we shall prosper and forge a better life living free. the yoke and shackles of the caucasoids shall be no more

Come on, the indians gave up there land for wiskey.

Look at the "proud" indians, still today they sell there souls for alcohol and gambling the two things that they let destroy themselves, and all this with whites changing laws due to the pity for them.

Indians cry about there image with sports teams, but are so proud of there image with a casino.

I'm impressed.

time has not stood still, white man
as your race evolved so has ours.

i do not hold the meth scourge that ravages the dregs of your society to be indicative of norms in your society

why do you?

Don't you just love how people claim indians are so in tuned with nature?

Tribes ask for power to kill sea lions

By The Associated Press

PORTLAND — Indian tribes are putting pressure on state agencies in Oregon and Washington to seek approval to kill protected sea lions that are feasting on salmon in the Columbia River near Bonneville Dam.

http://www.gazettetimes.com/articles/2005/05/02/news/the_west/monwst01.txt

a claim put forth by ignorant caucasoids, not us

we shall do with this land as we see fit
you go do the same with yours

i do not hold the meth scourge that ravages the dregs of your society to be indicative of norms in your society

why do you?Drug use among Natives highest in nation
Wednesday, September 17, 2003

The statistics reflect high rates of illicit drug use among American Indians and Alaska Natives. The SAMHSA survey, which was made public earlier this month, found that 10.1 percent of Natives used drugs, the highest rate except for those of multiple racial origin.

Drug use among Native youth is also significantly high, according to the survey. Among youths aged 12 to 17, 20.9 percent of Natives said they used drugs. This was nearly twice the rate of all youths (11.6 percent).
http://www.indianz.com/News/archives/001494.asp

further evidence of the trauma caused by living under the yoke of occupation by the caucasoid race

our drugs of choice were peyote and shrooms.
yours was the devil's water, heroin and cocaine

leave and take your drugs with you

According to the Centers for Disease Control, and Department of Health and Human Services, it is your children, and not those of the urban ghetto, who are most likely to use drugs. That's right: white high school students are seven times more likely than blacks to have used cocaine; eight times more likely to have smoked crack; ten times more likely to have used LSD and seven times more likely to have used heroin. In fact, there are more white high school students who have used crystal methamphetamine (the most addictive drug on the streets) than there are black students who smoke cigarettes.

What's more, white youth ages 12-17 are more likely to sell drugs: 34% more likely, in fact than their black counterparts. And it is white youth who are twice as likely to binge drink, and nearly twice as likely as blacks to drive drunk. And white males are twice as likely to bring a weapon to school as are black males.

http://www.alternet.org/story/10560/

/sneer

remember
take your niggers with you

further evidence of the trauma caused by living under the yoke of occupation by the caucasoid race A truly proud and intelligent people would not allow such "trauma" to change there people with such ease.

Your people could learn well from the Jews.

According to the Centers for Disease Control, and Department of Health and Human Services, it is your children, and not those of the urban ghetto, who are most likely to use drugs. That's right: white high school students are seven times more likely than blacks to have used cocaine; eight times more likely to have smoked crack; ten times more likely to have used LSD and seven times more likely to have used heroin. In fact, there are more white high school students who have used crystal methamphetamine (the most addictive drug on the streets) than there are black students who smoke cigarettes.

What's more, white youth ages 12-17 are more likely to sell drugs: 34% more likely, in fact than their black counterparts. And it is white youth who are twice as likely to binge drink, and nearly twice as likely as blacks to drive drunk. And white males are twice as likely to bring a weapon to school as are black males.

http://www.alternet.org/story/10560/

/sneer
Tim Wise is a joke, he does not base any of his stats on a per-capita base.

A truly proud and intelligent people would not allow such "trauma" to change there people with such ease.

Your people could learn well from the Jews.

i am sorry
do you see me making any claims of pride and intelligence?
do not concern yourself about these matters
we do not seek your approval
we seek your departure

if the jews have anything to impart, they can do so from their own lands

Tim Wise is a joke, he does not base any of his stats on a per-capita base.

naturally you cannot say otherwise

i am sorry
do you see me making any claims of pride and intelligence?
do not concern yourself about these matters
we do not seek your approval
we seek your departure
Do you think the way you speak on here was the way indians spoke to the first white man?

No wonder you got your asses kick so easy.

Do you think the way you speak on here was the way indians spoke to the first white man?

No wonder you got your asses kick so easy.

as a civilized peoples, we refuse to descend into barbarism and madness
for instance we do not derive sexual pleasure from urine, feces and animals
we do not......

...The true gun-killers are mostly middle-aged men -- white baby boomers, in fact, the group smugly wringing its hands over school shootings.

Dozens of gun-wielding, mostly white 30-60-age males recently have gone berserk in homes, offices, churches, grocery stores, community centers, industrial workplaces, even the national and California capitols. Office massacres claimed 12 in Atlanta, three in Alabama, seven in Honolulu, four in Seattle, eight in Tampa, three in Santa Cruz. Enraged middle-agers gunned down four teens and three adults in a Fort Worth church, six more in a Mormon library, and three teens and a Bible teacher in Ohio. Failed romances prompted midlife men to massacre six in Michigan, four in Baltimore, four in Memphis, six in Sacramento, and five toddlers at a California preschool. At least 25 are believed slain by a Texas serial killer; a Seattle national guard pilot admitted murdering a dozen prostitutes, and senior-citizen rampages in Michigan and Arizona elderly housing left eight dead or wounded. Mass, middle-class male killings pass weekly without a hint of accusation that midlife killings reveal white pathology.

Nor, in the wake of school shootings, did anyone bother to check the high levels of violence, crime, and addiction by suburban adults in "pastoral" communities they stereotyped as immune to grief. The latest California Criminal Justice Profiles show that in 1999, police in white, suburban Santee logged 231 weapons-related domestic violence reports, along with arrests of 300 adults for felony property, drug, and violent crimes (including homicides) and 600 more adults for other offenses. Wise's castigation of the "white denial" and media myth of suburban enclavism is apt.

/sneer

No wonder you got your asses kick so easy.

ahh i see
the desire to strip naked, paint body and go whooping out in a killing frenzy is very much alive

caucosoids are natural psychopaths
its just that some have difficulty in controlling these killers instincts
just like the savage beasts you find in the jungle

kicking asses

bah
who are you guys?
white gang bangers?

I hereby declare Economical War against Gustav.

Next Thursday, I'm going to take the deal from the Chumash Casino. For $10, they give you a free roundtrip ride on a bus to their casino and when you get there, you receive a free $10 gambling voucher.

I shall take that $10 gambling voucher and play some nickel slots until I reach around $40 (as I usually do), then take some of that looted $40 and spend $10 of it to enter the All-You-Can-Eat BBQ Western Buffet and eat about $50 worth of steak and BBQ ribs. I'm gonna stick it to ya like your beef to my ribs!

Just doing my small part in the war against the in'jins.

:p

- N

:D

damn you boy
i have printed your pic
it is in circulation
you have been warned

remember
take your niggers with youNiggers, are just black indians.

Not much difference between a mud hut and a Tee Pee.

Niggers, are just black indians.

Not much difference between a mud hut and a Tee Pee.

caucasoids are white niggers
from mud huts you moved into wattle and daub....

..method of constructing walls in which vertical wooden stakes, or wattles, are woven with horizontal twigs and branches, and then daubed with clay or mud

/sneer

mud n' twigs
hardly an improvement from a mud hut, wouldnt you say

contrast with the wonder that is a teepee
not dab of mud to be found

looks like you caucasoids and negroes have an affinity for mud
i wonder why

oh i know
a common ancestor