Pretty straight forwared, lets try to us our own words (Ei: No quoting Buddha or Lao Tzu).

If we just consider the word 'enlightenment' and not think of what the religious implication is and look at it from a purely philosofical point of view.

To me it is being totaly at peace with the self and the world and thereby to come to light upon matters about truth and the state of reality and in this way achieve realization of such matters.
For the knowledge is within us, we only need to piece it together and forget meaningless trifels such as property and principle etc.
So in a sense enlightenment and the realization of the state of reality is nothing which you can learn from a book or another person, you must realize it for yourself.
But I guess you can be guided in the right direction. By reading texts which bring new thoughts to your mind and through meditation etc.

Why am I myself not 'enlightened'? I guess it's because of doubt, I doubt myself and my thoughts which is perhaps the biggest mistake (right now I doubt my description of enlightenment).
If I were enlightend I guess i wouldn't sit here groveling over such things.

To become illuminated, firsthand you must have a good, clean blood. That means you must come from a good family.

It's hard to define a "good family" but i can safely say that chances of coming from the good family of a typical message board user are 1 to a million.

When one happens to be of the right mentality, he can then develop his intellect and subconsciousness further and achieve some form of enlightenment.

Questions?

Whenever I read or hear the word Enlightenment the first thing
that comes to mind is the 18th century philosophical movement.
In particular - Kant's essay "What is Enlightenment?".

I'd say there are 2 kinds of enlightenment.

A) To be truly aware that you are alive. To appreciate and spend every moment.

B) To die and no longer be a slave to life.

enlightenment is a good fuck

I just read an article suggesting that yoga/fasting/chanting
enduced enlightenment states is often merely a
'flattening' of the brain waves, making people really
really submissive. i'll try to find that article and post it.

In my mind to become en-lightened is to be able to look down at the world (not in an arrogant or 'snobby' way) but to see things as they really are i.e. to see them from above and see the truth

Do you guys suppose true enlightenment is possible? Or just temporary euphoria?

Here's part of an article by Dick Stutphen:


Step Three is THOUGHT STOPPING: Techniques are used to
cause the mind to go "flat." These are
altered-state-of-consciousness techniques that
initially induce calmness by giving the mind something
simple to deal with and focusing awareness. The
continued use brings on a feeling of elation and
eventually hallucination. The result is the reduction
of thought and eventually, if used long enough, the
cessation of all thought and withdrawal from everyone
and everything except that which the controllers
direct. The takeover is then complete. It is important
to be aware that when members or participants are
instructed to use "thought-stopping" techniques, they
are told that they will benefit by so doing: they will
become "better soldiers" or "find enlightenment."

There are three primary techniques used for thought
stopping. The first is MARCHING: the thump, thump,
thump beat literally generates self-hypnosis and thus
great susceptibility to suggestion.

The second thought stopping technique is MEDITATION.
If you spend an hour to an hour and a half a day in
meditation, after a few weeks, there is a great
probability that you will not return to full beta
consciousness. You will remain in a fixed state of
alpha for as long as you continue to meditate. I'm not
saying this is bad-if you do it yourself. It may be
very beneficial. But it is a fact that you are causing
your mind to go flat. I've worked with meditators on
an EEG machine and the results are conclusive: the
more you meditate, the flatter your mind becomes
until, eventually and especially if used to excess or
in combination with decognition, all thought ceases.
Some spiritual groups see this as nirvana-which is
bullshit. It is simply a predictable physiological
result. And if heaven on earth is non-thinking and
non-involvement, I really question why we are here.

The third thought-stopping technique is CHANTING, and
often chanting in meditation. "Speaking in tongues"
could also be included in this category.

All three-stopping techniques produce an altered state
of consciousness. This may be very good if YOU are
controlling the process, for you also control the
input. I personally use at least one self-hypnosis
programming session every day and I know how
beneficial it is for me. But you need to know if you
use these techniques to the degree of remaining
continually in alpha that, although you'll be very
mellow, you'll also be more suggestible.

Susan, very interesting!

I personally think the enlightenment we've been referring to is just learning, glorified. Every time you learn something you are enlightening yourself. But with that lesson, more questions arise. The feeling of enlightenment fades as you stop focusing on the question just answered and you start focusing on the next question. The enlightenment offen referred to is supposedly permanant. The only way to reach permanant enlightenment is to be completely ignorant, never asking the next question. Truth is about working for the answers. It is long periods of questioning rewarded with a short feeling of enlightenment.

Being self aware....
..the realization that you exist......
...that the universe exists.....
....that you exist as part of the universe.....
.....that part of the universe is self aware......
......that you are part of a whole.......
.......that the universe is self aware through you.....

However brief your lifespan, the universe was self aware for that time.....

AND drinking purple beer isn't a wise action to take.

(notice I didn't mention god once. Damn, I just did. Good job my dad isn't a carpenter, Damn, Damn, Double Damn...)

I think that enlightnement is a perception absent of objectivety and subjectivety, and a realization that the ultimate truth of reality is unattainable.

Originally posted by susan
Here's part of an article by Dick Stutphen:


Step Three is THOUGHT STOPPING: Techniques are used to
cause the mind to go "flat." These are
altered-state-of-consciousness techniques that
initially induce calmness by giving the mind something
simple to deal with and focusing awareness. The
continued use brings on a feeling of elation and
eventually hallucination. The result is the reduction
of thought and eventually, if used long enough, the
cessation of all thought and withdrawal from everyone
and everything except that which the controllers
direct. The takeover is then complete. It is important
to be aware that when members or participants are
instructed to use "thought-stopping" techniques, they
are told that they will benefit by so doing: they will
become "better soldiers" or "find enlightenment."

The second thought stopping technique is MEDITATION.
If you spend an hour to an hour and a half a day in
meditation, after a few weeks, there is a great
probability that you will not return to full beta
consciousness. You will remain in a fixed state of
alpha for as long as you continue to meditate. I'm not
saying this is bad-if you do it yourself. It may be
very beneficial. But it is a fact that you are causing
your mind to go flat. I've worked with meditators on
an EEG machine and the results are conclusive: the
more you meditate, the flatter your mind becomes
until, eventually and especially if used to excess or
in combination with decognition, all thought ceases.
Some spiritual groups see this as nirvana-which is
bullshit. It is simply a predictable physiological
result. And if heaven on earth is non-thinking and
non-involvement, I really question why we are here.

All three-stopping techniques produce an altered state
of consciousness. This may be very good if YOU are
controlling the process, for you also control the
input. I personally use at least one self-hypnosis
programming session every day and I know how
beneficial it is for me. But you need to know if you
use these techniques to the degree of remaining
continually in alpha that, although you'll be very
mellow, you'll also be more suggestible.

Most meditaion revolves arround not stopping thoughts but rather accepting them and letting them pass(ie. non-judging thoughts meditation etc.).
I don't think enlightenment is about not-thinking but rather understanding.
What's this guys problem with enlightenment anyway? Why must he strive to somehow prove it false? What's wrong with the state of enlightenment???

It's some times realy annoying how some people are so convinced that the world is a cold universe of scientific facts.

It's some times realy annoying how some people are so convinced that the world is a cold universe of scientific facts.
Even if it is, it doesn't mean we can't find it beautiful. It's sometimes really annoying how some people have to make up fantasies cause they are too weak to see the beauty in the ACTUAL truth.

Originally posted by Illuminatus
To become illuminated, firsthand you must have a good, clean blood. That means you must come from a good family.

It's hard to define a "good family" but i can safely say that chances of coming from the good family of a typical message board user are 1 to a million.

When one happens to be of the right mentality, he can then develop his intellect and subconsciousness further and achieve some form of enlightenment.

Questions?

sure
why didnt you ask santa for a brain?

Even if it is, it doesn't mean we can't find it beautiful. It's sometimes really annoying how some people have to make up fantasies cause they are too weak to see the beauty in the ACTUAL truth.

And what is ACTUAL Truth?
Yes, this is what I belive we see in enlightenment. :D It is not a fantasy but the actual realization of life itself, that it cannot be defined in any other way. The facts are the fantasy if you see my meanig. Is your existance just a random event as the facts suggest?
So what if it is just a random event? do you not have the potential to create beauty and to love? If you fully realize all this, then you are enlightend my friend.

It's some times realy annoying how some people are so convinced that the world is a cold universe of scientific facts. - ok perhaps I didn't say that in the right way, eg. Science wants to tell me that I have no soul that my conciousness is just electrical signals in my brain, why shouldn't these very electrical signals BE my soul?
I mean those who are out to prove that life is just these boring facts, when infact, yes it is ultimately beautifull and in the end, the ONLY thing we know to be 'TRUE'.

So we agree thought-wise at some level.

Moonman,
It sounds like you and I have a very similar philosophy to life. We know we find something beautiful and we're just out to find out what it is. Either way, we know it's beautiful.

<i>To become illuminated, firsthand you must have a good, clean blood. That means you must come from a good family. </i>
That sounds just a bit racist to me. Your background shouldn't matter, neither should your blood. Enlightenment should be in the mind, not the physical.

To me Enlightenment is impossible as long as we live. Enlightenment is realising that what happens in life doesn't matter, nothing matters.

Your conciousness achieves tha abillity to move at the speed of light. Hence can enter the "hevenly relm".

Why o'Why did I did I write that. (I you haven't figured it out yet I ment what.) :bugeye: Oih I Such Be Dumb ass

I personally have no idea what you are talking about, or why you type like that. . . .

Your conciousness achieves tha abillity to move at the speed of light

Look at the word elightnemt. Ei:Becoming light.

Nothing in this physical universe can move past the speed of light right? If one could move at the speed of light then you would enter another dimension right?

Interesting point. You are right, even if something travels at the current speed of light, light will still be travelling faster than the something. It's quite odd.

THEORY: The soul/astral body is made of a form of light. Or of the same thing light is.

wow, we've finally gotten close to my eternal questioning
region.

okay, if the brain can produce hallucinations, isn't it
working ('moving') at the speed of light in a personal
microchasm. i'm not sure what this has to do with anything
really... ether, and whatnot, but I feel I'm getting onto
something or other....

i've had a couple OBE's and a few hallucinations.
one OBE made me feel like I was moving faster (I was actually
working at the time, at the printer and the computer)
and suddenly I was two people instead of one.... and we were
both doing something for just a split second.
it's okay if you don't buy it, but I will tell you that I'm not crazy,
i have a job (i'm a teacher) I have a boyfriend, solid family relationships and lots of fun writing and going out to see music.
so, i'm not a nut case trapped inside as it may sound.

anyway, somebody please throw an idea at me about
the brain, projection, and ether, and the speed of light.

quit yer job, dump the loser, disown the family, lose the cash, roam the world

there!

i HAVE roamed the world. i would like to do that now.
if i had the money.

but i still want to know about what i asked about.

Susan
anyway, somebody please throw an idea at me about

If you do not realize the truth can you say anything is not possible?

It is impossible that there is no truth... (by definition of truth AND impossible)

Can there be existance with out truth?

Exactly. Therefore it is not "possible" for there to be no truth. It can't be true that it's impossible, or impossibly true...

Perhaps it is possible that it is beyond that and we do not yet understand.

I really tend to agree with you but just for the sake of argument.

for the sake of Argument Jones I hereby restate
something. does anyone have some sort of pseudoscience
explanations for what I was describing about
speed of light/projection/superceding time
sort of thing???

You have a soul and its made out of energy. If it can move at the speed of light then theoriticaly you will enter a new dimension.

Sure Susan.

E=MC(squared)
Energy = Matter times the speed of light, squared
The reason the speed of light comes in to play is that the speed of light is the ONLY common denominator in the universe. THE only constant statement in the universe is the speed of light.


Matter can not travel the speed of light. It shrinks before it reaches it. When going the speed of light time ceases to exist. So if our "souls" were to go faster than the speed of light we'd cross over to the next dimension where I would assume everything goes faster than the speed of light and time would be negative. But if you were to go EXACTLY the speed of light, you'd be in between both dimensions, and time would no longer have ahold of you. That would be true enlightenment. To see both dimensions and no longer be time's slave.

great!
both of the things just posted are truly 'enlightening'
if that means anything.

okay, so I think I understand. to supercede time
is to be everywhere at once, in a way, and still remember
your 'original' destination, where your body is.
in this realm there are infinite selves at infinite moments
EVERYWHERE the physical body can go!
great!

this would explain my hostility toward clocks and people
checking the time. I wish I could just crush all the clocks in
the world and nobody would be very concerned.

Actually, you'd probably have to permanantly leave your body behind. But I may be wrong. Perhaps through meditation or something you could temporarily leave your body? This is more Empty's territory though.

my shrink said he used to do 'astral projections'
and leave his body for a few hours at a time
several times a month.
(he had a 'guide' watching his physical body in case he
freaked out)
anyway, after some time out on the 'astral plane' he
discovered he was being persued by a big dark
black thing.
he said that his guide said that he was probably at
risk for stopping breathing and dying and that was
the thing following him, death, like a dark curtain.
and he said that each time he reentered his room, his body
it became more difficult to get back through the window.
I don't know if that was just his fear of death overtaking
him or if he was really at risk of dying. or maybe his
soul was just being unnattentive to his body like an unattentive
parent who should have been monitoring his breathing patterns...
guess that's why you're supposed to have a guide person there.
strange, huh?

the astral body can travel at the speed of thought. The speed of thought, as it is called, is essentially infinite. While in the astral body, you could go to the other side of the galaxy simply by thinking that you want to be there. Some proof can be found from the personal experiences at www.astralforum.com . Just ask a few people, im sure that one of my friends has had an experience that can prove it...

Originally posted by notme2000
they will
become "better soldiers" or "find enlightenment."

There are three primary techniques used for thought
stopping. The first is MARCHING: the thump, thump,
thump beat literally generates self-hypnosis

Silly Susan, that is the exact opposite of enlightenment.

"
To be aware of one another
To be one with the universe
to be...
"

Blah blah blah, gobshite.
You think your n lighted but your not, your mindless like an ape.

First bother to find out how things are being run on this planet.

As i said most of you meditating and doing other bullshit is nothing. You not even meditating the right way.

Ahhhh you think meditation, relaxation , how cute!!

You are all the same. You haven't got a slightest idea what the world is.

Life is nothing but an unsloveable puzzle to you.
That is if you try to think of it, most of you just leach through life not knowing a single thing about it.

There has never been more than a handful of illuminated human beings. Most of them actually believe that n lightment is the next step of human evolution.

I would like to point out that the quote above was NOT from me...

um, it was just an article written by a guy who doesn't
even post here.

it does point out some unorthadox measures taken by an erratic few, as in constant velocity of an inmeasurable source, such as .......proposed theories of beyond what we know of conciousness.. awareness, beyond expalaination of realism.. like what do you see when you THINK you are there! what is there? define .."out there" what is "here" , define here! send a bird, bring back proof! it is all supposition at its finest.. a fruitful search should end, or begin in fruitrition or belaying of order of that thought.. tis a quandry of many minds that forever search for the all knowing truth.. good luck!

What ever possessed you to bring that up? Do you have a point?

Originally posted by Empty Dragon
What do you think Enlightenment is? Pretty straight forwared, lets try to us our own words (Ei: No quoting Buddha or Lao Tzu).

Everything and nothing.

That's the simplest and most direct answer that i know to give you.

demo-... a lady about to die a horrible death is not an expansion of her conciousness. along for the ride, being used as a proxie for a country and about to become a number for some crazies to gloat over, is not enlightenment! I really hope you felt no glee over that too!

has enlightenment been divested of any mystical significance in this thread?

after a rough night I woke up and for some reason thought

"WE ARE ALL ALIENS"

like under our human skin.

then I thought, "I must be feeling alienATED."

does that count as a kind of 'enlightenment.'

demo- .. Now I understand better.. thanks, seriously! we all carry heavy things, thoughts, with us as we shuffle... My thanks to you for Caring to explain deeper.. Friends in spirit... I'm listening.

Susan was asking a question, I feel someone needs to address this.. I am only human, but I'll try. Perhaps it will also explain light, as in En... it always seems to stop and begin with Light.. again. the human experience as we live, has darkness, which is all consuming! light , to me is enlightening, which is the truth no longer shuttered. meaning, I'm am no longer in the dark. an experience of doing two things at one time, like.. seeing yourself doing this, is not normally meant to be.. not being humorous, it can cause confusion. Yeah. nooo sH*t! we as humans are pre-program to be simple, sometimes , I think, We see things that are not meant to be, like Deja vue, been there, done that, but not remembering, because of memories that were stalled, or put elsewhere.. call it faulty programing. you are using part of something that should be a secret. you have an instant recall of your true knowledge, which is fleeting, and you are left with a dream, wondering if it was real, wondering if you are sane, wondering.... all.. to figure this out, would definately Enlighten.. I hope I didn't En-darken nobody. that would be the pits... wanna know about pits?

Enlightenment: to fully Understand the plains, to ascend to the highest plain; The plain of Dieties, or the central plain. This could take all of time to discover, yet the rewards would be truely phenominal. Perhaps in a less grand sence, to permenently think "outside of the box".

i heard that there is an astral plane, i cant remember quite exactly but it is supposedly a collective soul, which, if yo manage to ascend to that pplane you are changed forever... you would never be the same after visiting there, after being one with this incredible spirit... of course i havent gotten there yet hehe im glad with what i got on earth right now:)

I have been speaking about the Astral plain, so maybe you heard it from me... Anyway, According to my theory, the Astral Plain is a collection of spirits that don't die of age,only if they're brain dies when vsiting other plains. All Mythical Beings, Including those of perpetual light(excet Chuppicabra) live on theAstral Plain.

Hi, everybody. Keep hearing talk of this 'astral plane...'
How do ya'all feel about mind/thought having energy? Thought having matter?
There seems to be something in the power of prayer- what if praying creates an entity of itself with sooo many people putting their thought into it. Maybe this astral plane is something that we have created?

I think that when we are born we are given a spirit entity which is apart from us. It stays with us throughout our lives and brings us home when we pass on.
I paint, draw, whatever- I swear I feel contact with a seperate part of me. (ya' know, that little area in your right hemisphere..) That is my enlightenment.

:D

Originally posted by bluemommaphish
Hi, everybody. Keep hearing talk of this 'astral plane...'
How do ya'all feel about mind/thought having energy? Thought having matter?
There seems to be something in the power of prayer- what if praying creates an entity of itself with sooo many people putting their thought into it. Maybe this astral plane is something that we have created?

I think that when we are born we are given a spirit entity which is apart from us. It stays with us throughout our lives and brings us home when we pass on.
I paint, draw, whatever- I swear I feel contact with a seperate part of me. (ya' know, that little area in your right hemisphere..) That is my enlightenment.

:D

An nteresting Concept... But I hope you are not so vain to say we as humans created the Astral Plane. If the Astral plain was actualy created by livig things, then it would be from all plains that can think for them selves.

Right...;)

That is a thought, yes. I do not believe we are the only ones. I do believe in soul travel throughout the universe once freed from our physical being- and that place some call heaven?

-If, our thought has matter..;)

actualy that is part of my theory, except i do't use Universe, I use the Plains of existance:)

I'm thinking that whatever space it hides in is part of that illusive dimension that has science in a tizzy right now..

Possible?

Enlightenment is akin to infinity. Our concept of infinity is too limited by our perceptions of reality to define it. Perhaps we should say enlightenment is beyond every stretch of our imagination.

That is one thing I love about this universe. It is more then we can ever imagine.

I've been to a few foreign countries. People are different. That doesn't make them more right or wrong. Go and explore the world. See how differently people act. Will it make you a better person? I dunno. Will it make your opinion on world events more educated? Possibly. Then again, you could still be lost without a clue. If the answer to all of the world's problems were so easily attainable by having someone travel and reveal their experiences to the lesser-traveled masses, then we'd all live in peace, respect one another's cultural differences, and never eat McDonalds!

"people are people, so why should it be
you and I should get along so awfully"- From a song. Don't know artist. Just popped in my head when I read this:
i HAVE roamed the world. i would like to do that now.

Enlightenment is having sex for the first time, learning a new language, or being exposed to a new culture, and other such firsts. The feeling (of enlightenment) doesn't last long. You get used to it, then it just becomes normal. Why? Because your desire to learn, understand, experience is fulfilled, and you are therefore 'enlightened'. Then you are off to the next desire.

Idiocy.

Idiocy
Ain't that the TRUTH! (http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=15554) :rolleyes:

Peculiar.

(By the way, I was't referring to your reply; I haven't read much of the thread. I was just answering the thread's question.)

I've found your comments very thought-provoking. That is why I came to this thread: I had a desire to read thought-provoking comments. I have been enlightened! Thanks!:D

It really sucks that I live in a nation that puts down mind altering drugs, and it also disheartens me that people put down free thinking.

I recently realized that "I exist." This is a topic that I have tried to explain to many people, but they shrug me off. Once you realize that you exist, your mind opens to many topics that before seemed irrelevant. Words cannot describe thoughts that now enter my mind. Once I came to this realization, I pretty much stopped doing drugs.

Anyway, I think enlightenment is any form of realization that changes the mind. True Enlightenment is the final realization that your "soul" must be one with the existence of everything. I cannot comprehend myself with this kind of power, yet. The universe is too great for me.

On the subject of drugs... I think some drugs (Ecstacy, mushrooms) can sometimes help you on your path. But they are only the light to guide your way, not the path itself. And you shouldn't need the drugs forever. I quit all drugs a year ago, but I don't regret doing them. They have alot to do with how I ended up "questioning reality" so to speak. Now I'm capable of doing it on my own. Otherwise, I may have never tried.