If you can't stand history, look away now. I've just watched a TV programme about Boudicca. She was the Celtic English queen who rebelled against Roman rule in 60AD. When the Romans invaded Britain, they divided the country up into 21 different areas, and set up puppet rulers in each. The rulers had a very good life as collaborators, and things were going fine until the Romans decided to attack the Druid priests on the Island of Anglesey in Wales. They saw them as a threat to power. This was a step too far, and the Iceni, headed by Boudicca, a female warrior with red hair, decided to rebel. She succeeded for a while, but was eventually defeated. She is still celebrated as a British Heroine, but the Romans would have considered her as a terrorist. Who was right?

Both. To the natives, she was a freedom fighter. To the Romans, a terrorist.

Both. To the natives, she was a freedom fighter. To the Romans, a terrorist.

It isn't about what she was, but about who was right. And they were both right in their own way, so you are correct.

why is this in world events anyway?

why is this in world events anyway?
Someone once said "Those who do not understand the events of history are condemned to repeat them"
The important words are terrorist and freedom fighter.

The important words are terrorist and freedom fighter.

Those are just words, nothing more, nothing less. They have various meanings to various people at various times for various situations. Many, many words can be used for different meanings for different people. Ain't no big deal.

Baron Max

When freedom fighters do things like cut off the arms of immunized children or skin men alive they cross a line between being freedom fighters and terrorists. Boudicca had London plundered and her citizens killed if I'm not mistaken. Her story is one of history's more interesting ones.

If you can't stand history, look away now. I've just watched a TV programme about Boudicca. She was the Celtic English queen who rebelled against Roman rule in 60AD. ..

I saw this too. Ya gotta admire that Roman military leader who defeated her.
Anyways, she was a queen and the Romans raped and abused her daughters, who were princesses. I can imagine what they did to regular folk.
She was a freedom fighter.

It's hard to apply the modern standards of terrorism to the time. Did Boudica attack, even kill, non-combatant civilians in order to spread terror? Well, she certainly seems to have massacred tens of thousands of them. At that time,though, there was no hard and fast legal or philosophical distinction between attacking enemy "civilians" and attacking its "military." (There were practical distinctions, but I don't recall anyone in those times suggesting anything wrongful about attacking non-combatants.) As such, I think you'd be hard-pressed to find any aggressor who wasn't a "terrorist" in antiquity.

In Boudica's defense, though, one could argue that the Romans she killed were all, in a sense, "occupiers" even if they were non-combatants. Even that's a very bad argument from the modern perspective though as it's the same one the Palestinians use to justify attacks on Israeli citizens.

It depends on whether you're shooting at/blowing up innocent people, or enemy soldiers. Obviously.

Modern groups like Al-Qaida are terrorists because they attack and mutilate innocent people.

You could compare Boudicca's rebellion to Hesbollah, which are freedom fighters, since they only fight Israeli terrorism and opression, and do not attack innocent civilians.

Al-qaida, on the other hand, are faggots and terrorists

Freedom is a concept you fight for.
Terror is a method of fighting anyone can apply.

They are different words, but they may refer to the same thing. Even 'good' and 'evil' can refer to the same thing.

There's no such thing as an innocent person.

- N

There's no such thing as an innocent person.

What exactly are newborn babies guilty of?

What exactly are newborn babies guilty of?

Leeching off their mother's womb for it's own personal gain. ;)

Go ahead and read the, *yawn*, abortion thread that discusses the innocence and/or non-innocence of babies. Again, it's the usual *yawn* same stupid round and round discussion.

http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?t=48765

What I do know, though, is that a baby doesn't care whether it died by C4 strapped to a person or a bomb dropped from way up high -- dead is dead, and all sides are guilty of that.

When will people stop bringing up, *yawn*, babies..

- N

Terrorists are anyone that opposes zionist occupation and invasion or US occupation and invasion.
Freedom Fighters are the brave rebels that have both terror states locked in combat, still.

so brave they fly jets into buildings.

so brave they fly jets into buildings. Takes ALOT more courage doing that than pushing buttons over Iraq or Afghanistan.

Takes ALOT more courage doing that than pushing buttons over Iraq or Afghanistan.


From what I see, no it isn't, and you discount the guys that pull the triggers face to face with these scumbucket terrorist.

It is a interesting thing to me how you defend them when you would be one of the first that they would cleanse from the planet, if they ever get their way I wonder how they will do you in, Long Drop short rope? Stoning? maybe just saw your head off? or even the old stand by, Impaling? Remember these Islamic Terrorist believe in the letter of the Quran as they interpret it, and guess were you stand in their eyes?

If white men are being killed, they are freedom fighters. If colored people are being killed, they are terrorists.

Thats a puerile stereotype of white people.

Thats a puerile stereotype of white people.

Name a colored freedom fighter who killed white people.

Name a white terrorist who killed colored people.

Name a colored freedom fighter who killed white people.
The leader of the black pantha's civil rights movment.


Name a white terrorist who killed colored people.

Jerry Adams.

The leader of the black pantha's civil rights movment.

Jerry Adams.

Don't know who they are, but I bet the black pantha whatever was demolished, since I haven't heard of it and that Jerry Adams is not someone who is decried for killing colored people.

I've lived in India for most of my life, in Saudi Arabia for 5 years and in the United States for three. Until I went to the States, my race has never been a factor in how people treated me. :p

It was a singularly astonishing experience. I've always been treated well by people and to be considered inferior when I could speak better English than the idiots who were trying to put me down was almost funny.

Don't know who they are, but I bet the black pantha whatever was demolished, since I haven't heard of it and that Jerry Adams is not someone who is decried for killing colored people.
Try googling it.

I've lived in India for most of my life, in Saudi Arabia for 5 years and in the United States for three. Until I went to the States, my race has never been a factor in how people treated me. :p
In India did you live in a slum even though you are well educated?
What conditions did you live in whilst in america?

It was a singularly astonishing experience. I've always been treated well by people and to be considered inferior when I could speak better English than the idiots who were trying to put me down was almost funny.
Yes dumb people generally are more elitist and put people down for numerous reasons, but that doesn't mean you should then jump to the conclusion that all whites are dumb racists.

Try googling it.



http://www.google.com/search?q=Jerry+adams+terrorist&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a



In India did you live in a slum even though you are well educated?
What conditions did you live in whilst in america?

Don't ask. I come from a middle class Indian home; never wanted for anything. In Saudi Arabia, I had housing, food, transport and a car and driver. And I got awesome wages.

In the States I was a student, I lived on minimum wage and was royally exploited.;)


Yes dumb people generally are more elitist and put people down for numerous reasons, but that doesn't mean you should then jump to the conclusion that all whites are dumb racists.

Sadly, the dumb people came from all social classes. People are obsessed with appearance and superficiality and everyone is fake.:(

Yeah, I've never heard of Jerry Adams either. Is it this (http://www.jerryadams.homestead.com/) guy?

Yeah, I've never heard of Jerry Adams either. Is it this (http://www.jerryadams.homestead.com/) guy?

No, Jerry Adams, the leader of the IRA and who didn't descriminate which members of multicultral Britain he terrorised.

Isn't Gerry Adams a politician?

ah no wonder. The web mostly knows him as Gerry Adams. I'll have to read about him, cuz I've never heard of him before. Sorry, we didn't really study the IRA in school.

Do the Irish consider the IRA as terrorists?

http://www.google.com/search?q=Jerry+adams+terrorist&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a




Don't ask. I come from a middle class Indian home; never wanted for anything. In Saudi Arabia, I had housing, food, transport and a car and driver. And I got awesome wages.

In the States I was a student, I lived on minimum wage and was royally exploited.;)


Sadly, the dumb people came from all social classes. People are obsessed with appearance and superficiality and everyone is fake.:(

I have been to Egypt and India and exploited by many halkers, shop owners and beggars: Including one memorable moment when I was threaterned by the agressive remark : Remember you are alone here! in Goa, all because I didn't buy another load of shit. Does that mean I'm a victim of racism?

Do the Irish consider the IRA as terrorists?

In short: Yes!

I have been to Egypt and India and exploited by many halkers, shop owners and beggars: Including one memorable moment when I was threaterned by the agressive remark : Remember you are alone here! in Goa, all because I didn't buy another load of shit. Does that mean I'm a victim of racism?

You have to live there for 3 years first.:p

Actually you're a victim of the dollar. And its not a comparable situation. :)

ah no wonder. The web mostly knows him as Gerry Adams. I'll have to read about him, cuz I've never heard of him before. Sorry, we didn't really study the IRA in school.

Im Gason, Hi.:D

In short: Yes!

That explains the civil wars I guess.:confused:

BTW Its actually "black panthers" but I dont check my spelling.

BTW Its actually "black panthers" but I dont check my spelling.

Did they get liberated?

Did they get liberated?

They got less oppression I'd say, but I'm sure will make out you had to sit at the back of the bus and got beaten up for not saying yes sir to the white folks before you spoke.

Are the poor liberated from the rich?

They got less oppression I'd say, but I'm sure will make out you had to sit at the back of the bus and got beaten up for not saying yes sir to the white folks before you spoke.

IIRC, they took up arms and were targeted by the criminal justice system.

The outcome isn't the point. The point is that even white people see them as fighters for justice, not terrorists.

Ghost of Maxwell.
I've been googling Gerry Adams, and I can find no examples of his targetting Black people. Black people may have died because the IRA bombing was indiscriminate, but they were not targetted.

S.A.M
I was interested to hear you felt no discrimination in Saudi Arabia. I think you must have been on a compound and worked only with educated people.
Which would you prefer to be. A Macdonald McJobber in Kansas or an Indonesian Housemaid in Saudi Arabia?

Ghost of Maxwell.
I've been googling Gerry Adams, and I can find no examples of his targetting Black people. Black people may have died because the IRA bombing was indiscriminate, but they were not targetted.



I wasn't asked for someone who specifically targeted blacks. Unlike blacks/asians that specifically target whites -whites that specifically target blacks with bombs and the like are partically thin on the ground. Maybe that tells you and SAM a lot more than her original question 20 posts ago.

Thanks GOM.
Lookng again, I'm not sure what the original question meant, so it's not surprising that I didn't get your answer.
The number of Black recruits has certainly gone down in the US since Iraq, but I don't think the bombers in Iraq care whether their victims are black or white.


This was S.A.M's question
Name a colored freedom fighter who killed white people.
Name a white terrorist who killed colored people.

SAM
Just to clarify things. What exactly were you getting at in that question?
There are four factors Black, White, Terrorist and Freedom Fighter, and I'm not sure what the connection is.

Weren't the KKK terrorists?

Weren't the KKK terrorists?

Nah just white supremist bigots, with predominantly bible instruction on ethics and morality.

S.A.M
I was interested to hear you felt no discrimination in Saudi Arabia. I think you must have been on a compound and worked only with educated people.
Which would you prefer to be. A Macdonald McJobber in Kansas or an Indonesian Housemaid in Saudi Arabia?

I was the same person in all 3 places. doing similar things. And I travelled quite a bit for immunisation camps as well as pleasure. And I am referring to the "educated people" in all three places. :)

And after watching the condition of minimum wage illegal immigrants, I would say there is not much difference. At least there are no homeless in KSA. And there, the cops will listen to allegations of abuse and arrange for the abused to get help.

Thanks GOM.
Lookng again, I'm not sure what the original question meant, so it's not surprising that I didn't get your answer.
The number of Black recruits has certainly gone down in the US since Iraq, but I don't think the bombers in Iraq care whether their victims are black or white.


This was S.A.M's question
Name a colored freedom fighter who killed white people.
Name a white terrorist who killed colored people.

SAM
Just to clarify things. What exactly were you getting at in that question?
There are four factors Black, White, Terrorist and Freedom Fighter, and I'm not sure what the connection is.

Just that when its white people who are doing the attacking, they are colonialists, adventurers; when its colored people, they are obviously terrorists.

Anyone speak of the CIA kidnapping and torture of individuals/US invasions of over 25 countries in the last 50 years as terrorism?

Anyone speak of any Afghani/Iraqi/Palestinian/Lebanese/Iranian action as a rebound from interference in their countries as otherwise?

But if you piled the damages side by side, you'd be hard put to see the logic of it.:shrug:

I wasn't asked for someone who specifically targeted blacks. Unlike blacks/asians that specifically target whites -whites that specifically target blacks with bombs and the like are partically thin on the ground. Maybe that tells you and SAM a lot more than her original question 20 posts ago.

Yes it does, it tells me I am right. :)

Nah just white supremist bigots, with predominantly bible instruction on ethics and morality.

Freedom fighters of religion.

Unilke the Taliban.:rolleyes:

Freedom fighters of religion.

Unilke the Taliban.:rolleyes:

When in my previous statement did I indicate that the KKK were not as equally despicable as any other religous nuts?:rolleyes:

Are you arguing with inner demons or something?:mufc:

When in my previous statement did I indicate that the KKK were not as equally despicable as any other religous nuts?:rolleyes:

Are you arguing with inner demons or something?:mufc:

Were they targeted by the US troops for terrorism? :shrug:

Were they targeted by the US troops for terrorism? :shrug:

Are they not targeted by the US authorities for murder and other crimes?:shrug:

Just that when its white people who are doing the attacking, they are colonialists, adventurers; when its colored people, they are obviously terrorists.

Anyone speak of the CIA kidnapping and torture of individuals/US invasions of over 25 countries in the last 50 years as terrorism?

Anyone speak of any Afghani/Iraqi/Palestinian/Lebanese/Iranian action as a rebound from interference in their countries as otherwise?

But if you piled the damages side by side, you'd be hard put to see the logic of it.:shrug:
SAM
I do agree with you that the terms seem to be used according to whether the person judging agrees or disagrees with the people being judged, but I don't understand the black v white angle.
Of the people judged as terrorists, I don't think that blacks are particularly singled out. In Europe, we have the IRA and UDA, The Basque separatists, some anti Hunt fanatics, and some islamist extremists. In America, there are white supremacists, and a very small proportion of Islamists.
As regards what happens in US detention centres, these actions may not be seen as torture in the US, but many other people, friends of America, see it as just that.

SAM
I do agree with you that the terms seem to be used according to whether the person judging agrees or disagrees with the people being judged, but I don't understand the black v white angle.
Of the people judged as terrorists, I don't think that blacks are particularly singled out. In Europe, we have the IRA and UDA, The Basque separatists, some anti Hunt fanatics, and some islamist extremists. In America, there are white supremacists, and a very small proportion of Islamists.
As regards what happens in US detention centres, these actions may not be seen as torture in the US, but many other people, friends of America, see it as just that.

Yes, but I am referring to general perception; the actions of the IRA or Basque do not get generalised to all Irish/French/whites/Christians, unlike the repercussions on blacks and/or Muslims or Asians or Arabs :)

OK, I think that there may be something I haven't understood here.
Have the events in the middle East caused a backlash in the US against non-muslim asians and Blacks? If so, it was something I wasn't aware of. In the UK, British non-muslim asians have found themselves being grouped with muslims, and the vast majority of peaceful muslims have found themselves being suspected of being terrorists. Is this what you mean?

Also, I'm sure that GOM can defend himself, but why assume that he would supprt the kkk because (assumption) he is white?

OK, I think that there may be something I haven't understood here.
Have the events in the middle East caused a backlash in the US against non-muslim asians and Blacks? If so, it was something I wasn't aware of.

Sorry, I'm not being clear enough. I meant that the actions of a few get generalised to all with differences in perception, creating differences in repercussions and demonising of the "other"


And these differences in perception are defined by an inherent race consciousness in Western societies.

In the UK, British non-muslim asians have found themselves being grouped with muslims, and the vast majority of peaceful muslims have found themselves being suspected of being terrorists. Is this what you mean?

Now you get it. ;)

Would christians be likely to be recruited to taliban terrorism? would Rastafarians?
would dutch atheists? :rolleyes:

You fuck us over, expect us to use common sense!

Sorry, I'm not being clear enough. I meant that the actions of a few get generalised to all with differences in perception, creating differences in repercussions and demonising of the "other"


And these differences in perception are defined by an inherent race consciousness in Western societies.

There's no such thing as race.
I think (open to contradiction) that we can trace back all genetical strains of humans to seven different women, and they were all black.
I would say get this colour rubbish out of your head. Sometimes when you oppose things strongly , you adopt some of the world views of your opponent. Black and white skin is a hereditary adaption to the amount of sunlight available. We become white because as we spread further north, starting in AFRICA, we still needed vitamin D, which depends for its production on sunlight reacting with our skin. Race consciousness is a myth.

There's no such thing as race.
I think (open to contradiction) that we can trace back all genetical strains of humans to seven different women, and they were all black.
I would say get this colour rubbish out of your head. Sometimes when you oppose things strongly , you adopt some of the world views of your opponent.

I know there is know such thing as race. :p

I'm merely making observations based on what I have seen and experienced in different societies. I don't even think these are representative of the society, but a general trend that is probably reflective of a colononial hangover.

Its an unusual circumstance in the West, that people cannot separate the politics from the society. :)

Would christians be likely to be recruited to taliban terrorism? would Rastafarians?
would dutch atheists? :rolleyes:

You fuck us over, expect us to use common sense!

Er okay :D

Actually I anticipate a lack of sense; that way there are no surprises. ;)

PS Have the Taliban been knocking on your door AGAIN? tsk tsk.

I know there is know such thing as race. :p

I'm merely making observations based on what I have seen and experienced in different societies. I don't even think these are representative of the society, but a general trend that is probably reflective of a colononial hangover.

Its an unusual circumstance in the West, that people cannot separate the politics from the society. :)

Cultural prejudices definitely exist. They are no worse among Western people than any others, but are probably harder to cope with because Westerners are more powerful. I'm glad you agree there is no such thing as Race.
I believe that there is as little Genetic variation among humans on earth than two snails on opposite sides of a mountain (open to contradiction on this )

Cultural prejudices definitely exist. They are no worse among Western people than any others, but are probably harder to cope with because Westerners are more powerful. I'm glad you agree there is no such thing as Race.
I believe that there is as little Genetic variation among humans on earth than two snails on opposite sides of a mountain (open to contradiction on this )

Cultural prejudices are fine as long as they don't result in the death of hundreds of thousands and the demonising of a billion and a half. When that happens its hard to brush it off as ignorance.

Cultural prejudices are fine as long as they don't result in the death of hundreds of thousands and the demonising of a billion and a half. When that happens its hard to brush it off as ignorance.

i'm not saying that they are fine. You have the habit of putting words into the mouths of people. I don't disagree with you at all. The things that are happening are terrible.

i'm not saying that they are fine. You have the habit of putting words into the mouths of people. I don't disagree with you at all. The things that are happening are terrible.

In that case I apologise; I was responding to this statement.

They are no worse among Western people than any others, but are probably harder to cope with because Westerners are more powerful

Cultural prejudices are fine as long as they don't result in the death of hundreds of thousands and the demonising of a billion and a half. When that happens its hard to brush it off as ignorance.


I couldn't put together a better case against run-away religous intolerance.


Well said!

Well when freedom fighters start lacking any regards for innocents and losing track of their supposed righteous cause, that's when I the word terrorism comes in I guess. Terrorism in the name of religion will always be terrorism and can never be viewed as freedom fighting. They are afterall fighting to enslave the rest of the world to worship their shallow fundamental understanding of their religion.

There are some freedom fighters that truely are fighting to reestablish their country from despotic rulership. Many in Africa. Iraq is also one. It's arguable whether the stuff in Iraq can be considered act of terror since US are the invaders wanting to establish a puppet government backing one of the many tribes in that country while ignoring others.

They are freedom fighters first, dictators second.

er, first they are freedom fighters THEN they become dictators.

Marines shoot at unarmed civilians

http://youtube.com/watch?search=&mode=related&v=xnyjH5wusqs

http://youtube.com/watch?v=rvZyMsrFY_Q&mode=related&search=

http://youtube.com/watch?v=7AXN3H3BPQU&mode=related&search=

http://youtube.com/watch?v=VwwMF6biCJU&mode=related&search=

From what I see, no it isn't, and you discount the guys that pull the triggers face to face with these scumbucket terrorist.

It is a interesting thing to me how you defend them when you would be one of the first that they would cleanse from the planet, if they ever get their way I wonder how they will do you in, Long Drop short rope? Stoning? maybe just saw your head off? or even the old stand by, Impaling? Remember these Islamic Terrorist believe in the letter of the Quran as they interpret it, and guess were you stand in their eyes?DUH! I'd stay in the closet dumbshit.

DUH! I'd stay in the closet dumbshit.

you are the one supporting them despite what BR said, and hes the dumbshit?

They are freedom fighters first, dictators second.

er, first they are freedom fighters THEN they become dictators.

Interesting idea. Freedom fighters become dictators, Terrorists become politicians. I don't know if it's true in every case but it seems to fit a few.