You may know that WBush and co have introduced 'Teenscreen' apparently to check for 'mental illness'. Well it is an evil SCAM! Do NOT fall for it.
see here: www.teenscreenfacts.com

What's wrong with drugs?

They're even legal and state sanctioned. Regulated. Safe.

You may know that WBush and co have introduced 'Teenscreen' apparently to check for 'mental illness'. Well it is an evil SCAM! Do NOT fall for it.
see here: www.teenscreenfacts.com

I wonder what the drugs really do? Make them susceptible to governement brainwashing perhaps?

What's wrong with drugs?

They're even legal and state sanctioned. Regulated. Safe.
yeahhh? as likely as you being able to read and understand...!

I wonder what the drugs really do? Make them susceptible to governement brainwashing perhaps?
the very concept of 'teenscreen' which bascially is the massive profit-making insidious conglomorate-industry of big pharma&psychiatry targeting of children IS governmen brainwashing before any of their drugs have been took! The idea being that what they--the government stand for and do and offer is 'normal', whilst any distress, dissent, etc -- deemed UNacceptable by them is 'mental illness'

I thought you encouraged people to experiment with drugs. Now they can do so without the dangers of the DEA dragging them off to prison forever.

You may know that WBush and co have introduced 'Teenscreen' apparently to check for 'mental illness'. Well it is an evil SCAM! Do NOT fall for it.
see here: www.teenscreenfacts.com

From that link;

"When it was done in Colorado , 71% of the kids who took the test were told they had a mental disorder."


From the real teenscreen web site;(http://www.teenscreen.org/cms/content/view/68/97/)

"The Columbia University TeenScreen Program was designed to address the problems of unidentified mental illness and suicide risk in youth. There are currently more than 350 active TeenScreen sites in 43 states. In 2004 almost 40,000 adolescents nationally were screened using TeenScreen and approximately 6,000 referred for further evaluation and assistance. "

So there are a few possibilities. That the first statistic is spurious, or that the tests were well targetted. Without the sample size, 71% is rather meaningless. Note how the 6,000 in the latter paragraph does not equate to 'being told they had a mental disorder' either. I bet duendy picked this up from propagandamatrix.bs

I thought you encouraged people to experiment with drugs. Now they can do so without the dangers of the DEA dragging them off to prison forever.
NO, gotit wrong Roman--as yushe

I have TRIED to explore the primal religious use of natural 'sacraments'--this is various psychedelic vegetation, and concoctions, which inspires deep feelings, and ecstasy---One can include LSD although its form we are more aware of its form as was discovered by Albert Hoffman in a laboratory. What i love about how it became discovered was that it happend accidentally, and happens to be THE most powerful psychedelic known to humankind. The tiniest measure being exceedlingy powerful. This psychedelicwas the one tat turned me on, andopened me up to Nature, after having had those feelings dulled in a quick time by acculturation.

Now THOS 'drugs' are most certainly NOT the same as so-called 'pharmacuetical-psychiatric 'meds'. Yes it is true tat the idea of 'serotonin' was inspired by the forthcoming research about psychedelics, in the time they were allowed for research, but the underlying mode of operation DRASTICALLY differs once bio-psychiatry get their hands on tis, and begin the propganda that various behaviours are forms of 'disorder'/'mental illness'

For a start. see the link i gave. THEcrucial thing is this: there is no actual proof that so-called mental illness is a biological disease. Hence the very idea that what they offer is 'medication' is false from the onset. If you have no actualy disease yu dont NEED medication. Not in the sense of how medical science describes disease. So there is decption straightaway, and misinformed consent, and children being drugged wit toxic substances, which as you have maybe read...???? can cause seriously violent behaviours and sucides etc.

This is a big subject . no specialization here. to really grasp what social control means you have o be aware of the whole shebahgle of what this System is about. what school, college, university, career, the whole deal is about. THENit will fit into place, why they fascistically want mind control. Fot it IS mind control when you are distressed ABOUT ths system yer in, and THAt gets called 'mental illness'. do you see??

duendy your clearly showing signs of paranoia perhaps you are psychotic and should be screened for mental disorder.

some prozac should do the job nicely. take the blue pill, come and live in a nice warm fuzzy world of squishy marshmallows and fluffly bunny rabbits.

actually what would be interesting is a look at the questions they are asking teens. maybe analyse said questions to see what and how they are categorising children as "Abnormal"

I remember when this, ah, service came to my highschool a few years ago. I never did take the test, though I am still curious of what an automated shrink would diagnose me with.

My friend's brother went and faked a test for ADD. Now he can legally buy speed.

Whats wrong with screening teenagers for mental illness? Why do you believe that all the pharmaceutical companies want is profits?

duendy your clearly showing signs of paranoia perhaps you are psychotic and should be screened for mental disorder.

me))))haha...cant tell if you serious orrr takin the piss

some prozac should do the job nicely. take the blue pill, come and live in a nice warm fuzzy world of squishy marshmallows and fluffly bunny rabbits.
ahhhhhaaaaa i see you were

actually what would be interesting is a look at the questions they are asking teens. maybe analyse said questions to see what and how they are categorising children as "Abnormal"
That is a great suggestion. i will contact webowner of the site and ask if he can proide that!

Whats wrong with screening teenagers for mental illness? Why do you believe that all the pharmaceutical companies want is profits?
becauuuuse 'profit' is THE nameof the game now. any humanity, morals, real understanding for life has goneout of the window. it is grab what you can cause you soon dead. this is what i mean by understanding the very mechanistic system you are in. it is VITAL you begin researching ...yesterday!!

From that link;

"When it was done in Colorado , 71% of the kids who took the test were told they had a mental disorder."


From the real teenscreen web site;(http://www.teenscreen.org/cms/content/view/68/97/)

"The Columbia University TeenScreen Program was designed to address the problems of unidentified mental illness and suicide risk in youth. There are currently more than 350 active TeenScreen sites in 43 states. In 2004 almost 40,000 adolescents nationally were screened using TeenScreen and approximately 6,000 referred for further evaluation and assistance. "

So there are a few possibilities. That the first statistic is spurious, or that the tests were well targetted. Without the sample size, 71% is rather meaningless. Note how the 6,000 in the latter paragraph does not equate to 'being told they had a mental disorder' either. I bet duendy picked this up from propagandamatrix.bs
well look at the site this old phlo's given us as THE truth. what we got a beaming corporatized ever so happy --probably medicalized student beaming her plastic smile over the poceedings. jeeez phlo. dont you pop up?.

Do you know from my dealings with you over the time i have been at these forums i am becoming more and more convinced you WORK for the fukin neo cons.

actually propagandamatrix is a very informative site. people like you sho put-down such sites would then be given So much more scope to spin your fascistic crap wouldn't you. that's why they there baby. LIVE wit it

and actually, no i didn't get it from there. i am on mailing list of Dr Fred Baughman, one of THE major activists against bio-psyhaitry and their ruthless targetting of CHILDREn for their dirty evil profts,power, andpresitige.

you haven't got A clue. and not only bout this.

That is a great suggestion. i will contact webowner of the site and ask if he can proide that!
definitely post it, please, please. i want to see.

definitely post it, please, please. i want to see.
Did so, about 15 mins back. i dont mess about!

Amazing, the govt have a program that detects mental illness, and in some case uses drugs to help fix this, and it is BAD, according to duendy.

Meanwhile, duendy takes drugs, which have made her paranoid, ruined her mental health, made he unemployable, and incapable of reason. But that is good according to her.

Feel free to check back into reality sometime soon, duendy.

duendy
where did you post it?

Amazing, the govt have a program that detects mental illness, and in some case uses drugs to help fix this, and it is BAD, according to duendy.

me))no you extremely despicable fellow. THA isn't 'amazing', what IS is you. you who parades round these forums like some gestapo to keep it scientific, YET ,are ironically, TOTALLY Unaware that no science EXISTS which has confirmed that mental illness is biological disease! As usual all your spouting its spurted from blindness about what yer spurtin about.

Meanwhile, duendy takes drugs, which have made her paranoid, ruined her mental health, made he unemployable, and incapable of reason. But that is good according to her.

me)))))this malicious awful character, who calls himself phlogistician....well he would wouldn't he..? has created an image of me. he has gossiped abou me around tese baords that i am drug addles. am mentally ill. am on welare bla bla without ANY confirmation on my part. he has done it so much his propaganda has stuck with some people. i ask you to try and see what a vile idiot this dude is. his middle Name is ad hominem. he has no idea how to properly debate and explore. the only thing he knows is what ya seeing. sad aint in it.

Feel free to check back into reality sometime soon, duendy.
what you mean your snidey take on reality. viscious nasty blind and dumb. fuck wid that!

duendy, I don't need confirmation from you about your mental state, or employment status. It's obvious to everyone who has read a few of your posts.

As to scientific proof existing to show mental illness is biological disease, well, you confuse your terminology here. Illnesses can cause brain damage and psychological changes. Head trauma can change a personality. Biochemical changes also can chnage personality. So exactly which part are you denying? I think you are behind on your reading, duendy.

Here'sa link to chew on;

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2003/01/030123072840.htm

and another;

http://anthropology.net/user/kambiz_kamrani/blog/2006/03/21/could_the_maoa_gene_link_to_violent_behavior_witho ut_integrating_culture

duendy, I don't need confirmation from you about your mental state, or employment status. It's obvious to everyone who has read a few of your posts.

me))hmmmmpgh%xz, well i KNOW what YOr posts say to me. hey teacher's pet, styrder sure cant see you fo what you are, bit i sure as hell can. remember this!!

As to scientific proof existing to show mental illness is biological disease, well, you confuse your terminology here. Illnesses can cause brain damage and psychological changes. Head trauma can change a personality. Biochemical changes also can chnage personality. So exactly which part are you denying? I think you are behind on your reading, duendy.

Here'sa link to chew on;

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2003/01/030123072840.htm

and another;

http://anthropology.net/user/kambiz_kamrani/blog/2006/03/21/could_the_maoa_gene_link_to_violent_behavior_witho ut_integrating_culture
haha...look at tis dude with his mechanistic sources. trust you to go runnin to te ney and pluck those beauties out. actually the very head of the APA whenchallenged by Baughman to show proof mental illness is biolgical organic disease he ignored him. because he and others cant.
the whole poiht of bio-psychiatry is it is pretending to be like allopathid medicine. 'got depression, psychosis?' 'take tis anti-medicine' and it will cure it'---it is baloney. you are atuer . go away fuker. and btw iof i had you in front of me, te wayt you talk to me?? i would crush your goolies. believe it!

hey you'll you can do NO better than this: forget resarch..here's what you do: whenever you hear this phlo claim anything. you will KNOW it is false. end of..hehe
he is So up the faacist-arse it is laughable. but alo serious in that. be -ware of such silly views. this is what is exactly targetting vulnerable children.....i am errr sophisticated enough to see throughhim and his 'evidence'. children aint, andmany adults aint neither. he --and i am not being overly dramatic here--represnts severe oppression!

So, what you are saynig duendy, is that you have been prescribed drugs for your condition, but prefer hallucinogens.

So, what you are saynig duendy, is that you have been prescribed drugs for your condition, but prefer hallucinogens.
noooo, ypou silly ignorant slanderous oaf. no. you do not understand. all you can do is insult. make false 'accusation'.
you have not one OUNCE of intelligence.
tell you what i blame it on. your job. didn't you say you were a computer pregrammer? well you have become like that. a machine. and this is why yoy are attracted to mechansitic science and all its evils against other species, the human communiy and Nature.
you are a hopeless case. you REVEL in your ignorance, which you deny yourself to see.
how can ANYone reason with that??
And you are so far from empathy. that you diss someone and then EXPECT to carry on some form of communication. your a laugh a minute

see master phlo--all 10 yars old of you---you dont know khow to behave. and you miss this vital point. it is no MATTER IFi am mentally ill---as you would understand it. i dont look at people classed that false label as you do. but you use it as a demonizing term and then pretend to be able to intelligently explore the subject

where does all your visciousness come from dude?? you cannot be happy with yo life to be such a pain in the arse. ALL you ever do, and not just wid me is attack attack attack.

Have you ever read Private Eye duendy? You sound remarkably like Dave Spart.

This program is DEFINATELY a giveaway to the pharm industry. Although some kids with ADD and such are helped by drugs, they need to see a real doctor. That is, if they still have any health insurance. Most of the more severe forms of mental illness don't even show up until early adulthood.

These drugs have only been used for years, not the thousands of years that entheogenic plants have been used, and their effects are not as well known.

duendy did you get the questionaire, can we see it please love.

This program is DEFINATELY a giveaway to the pharm industry.

me)))))you've got this completely right.

Although some kids with ADD and such are helped by drugs, they need to see a real doctor. That is, if they still have any health insurance. Most of the more severe forms of mental illness don't even show up until early adulthood.

me)))you haven't understood here at ALL. I repeat: tere is NO existing evidence that mental illness is biological disease
It is behaviour which is pathologized by big pharma sponsord bio psychiatry.

These drugs have only been used for years, not the thousands of years that entheogenic plants have been used, and their effects are not as well known.
true, and teir etos is RADICALLY different. tis is complex becase BOTH patriarchal pagans/mystics and religionists have taken sacraments, and they were used in a divisory way. The originaryway is Indigenously where they would betaken in a celebratory way as a mans to deeply express emotion, and commune with community and Nature in a very deep way.
The drugs that big pharma spend millions on promoting whilst also funding the war on drugs come from a mechanistric understanding of reality which is subjective as is bio-psychitry's 'diagnoses'. There is no understanding about te underlying distress inevitable in an oppressive mehcanistic culture, and tey tus blindly pathologize tis dsitress etc and seek to drug it. which really is MASKIrather than 'curing- a natural healing process

Whats wrong with screening teenagers for mental illness? Why do you believe that all the pharmaceutical companies want is profits?
There already are school councelors that kids can go to if they have a problem. Also, it's a very involved and long term kind of thing, not like detecting spinal curvature. How do they propose to do this, interview every child? For how long? At what cost?

tell you what i blame it on. your job. didn't you say you were a computer pregrammer?

Er, no, I told you that I WASN'T a computer programmer. Pay attention.

it is no MATTER IFi am mentally ill---as you would understand it. i dont look at people classed that false label as you do.

It's perhaps hard to tell sane from mad once you've crossed the line, is that what you are saying?

where does all your visciousness come from dude??

There's no venom in my my observations duendy. They are merely observations. Maybe it's just the truth that hurts?

you cannot be happy with yo life to be such a pain in the arse. ALL you ever do, and not just wid me is attack attack attack.

Not true, you feel attacked maybe, but that's because you are a paranoid drug user.

Whats wrong with screening teenagers for mental illness? Why do you believe that all the pharmaceutical companies want is profits?

Well, companies are companies. There purpose is to make profit. That's what business is all about. Why is it so hard to believe that profit making firms engage in profit making enterprises?

Well, companies are companies. There purpose is to make profit. That's what business is all about. Why is it so hard to believe that profit making firms engage in profit making enterprises?
so you are defending making a profit out of young people?

So, according to you duendy, there is no such thing as mental illness? Even schizophrenia? Murderers who disembowel their victims are completely normal? Nothing wrong with their minds at all?

I dont understand.
Do you (Communist Hamster and Phlogistican) actually support this program? This will lead to many more people using drugs to fix issues related to being a teen.

Anger, depression, anxiety etc. are some of the emotions I think all teens deal with. Teens by defintion are mentally unstable.

This is another way for Big Pharma (the number one lobbyist on capitol hill) to profit. They've got people to accepted they idea that hyper kids need pills (aren't all kids hyper?) , now they've moved on to teens needing pills to fight teen angst(Aren't all NORMAL teens emotional?).

What next? Adult-Screen? Here's a pill for being fat, lazy, and American....

I dont understand.
Do you (Communist Hamster and Phlogistican) actually support this program?

No, I'm abivalent. I'm not going to decide it's bad though, just because duendy, the local mentally unstable drug bucket says it's bad. She linked to a web site which had some spurious statistic that 71% of kids checked in Colorado were told they had mental problems. I countered with some stats from the organisation themselves which cast the 71% figure into doubt.

Anyway, I'm not American, not a kid, and don't have any kids, so this issue misses me somewhat. My only issue, is that duendy always looks for the worst, and always finds it.

the problem is mental disorders are not chemical problems. the chemcial imbalances are caused by the mental disorder, the mental disorder are not being caused by the chemical imablance.

example depression is not caused by an imbalance of chemicals, depression is caused by poor social conditions, emotional issues (rejection, alientation, being ugly) cognitive problems (poor communication) etc. these problems maybe the cause of depression. the body is then releasing chemicals that tell the perosn to withdraw from life. thus we have depression and it appears to be caused by chemicals. this is only an example so plaease bear that in mind when you get out your flame throwers.

apply the same with different variables to all mental disorders and you will understand why psychiatry fails to effectively cure patients.

maybe you wont understand, i will spell it out.

psychiatry is not treating the problem it is treating a symptom of a problem and so the problem continues and the symptom is masked.

the person who once felt depressed now has no access to that feeling. ah! you may say, but the depression has gone away the person now smiles and is not withdrawing from life.

that may be so but the person is not whole, the the internal communication via chemical signals are being severely disrupted. with more debilitating disorders the more powerful medication are causing more severe problems to the users of psychiatric treatment.

this is a greater problem and a danger to society when it is backed by coporations that have vested interested in promoting their products.

I have to agree that this TeenScreen program sounds very dodgy. I also agree that psychiatrists are very quick to diagnose someone with a mental illness, and then to shove medication down their throats.
Your child is hyperactive or stubborn? Your child throws tantrums (as if adults don't throw tantrums, especially couples)? Obviously its ADHD!
What's worse is that parents lap this shit up like dogs to gravy. They would prefer ADHD to an explaination where...
1. The blame rests at least partially with the parents. Better to shove pills down your child's throat, than actually changing your parenting technique, or spending some time with the kid.
or/and
2. The child is acting like a normal irrational 10 year old. Even adults (especially young adults) have moments of stupidity or rage. That's the human condition. People, in general, are stupid, impulsive, arrogant, emotional twits. However, parents just can't bear the idea of toughing it out for 18 years.

What's worse is that a lot of these drugs DO have negative side-effects. And there may be very harmful long-term side-effects that we don't yet know about. Drugs which have been used to treat mental 'illnesses' in the past have been pulled from the shelves post haste when they were discovered to be harmful. In fact, I have a friend who took medication for ADHD (which he genuinely has) when he was a child, which was recently banned. Even to this day, he suffers from side-effects, especially insomnia.

In summary, drugs should only be taken AS A LAST RESORT. However, greedy corporations + shrinks are using them as the front line in the war against the human condition.

In my opinion, psychiatrists are right up the top there with lawyers and private dentists when it comes to being shifty, money-grabbing bastards. Sure, all professions are greedy to some extent in our capitalist society, but private dentists, lawyers and psychiatrists love to screw very needy people over.

the problem is mental disorders are not chemical problems. the chemcial imbalances are caused by the mental disorder, the mental disorder are not being caused by the chemical imablance.

example depression is not caused by an imbalance of chemicals, depression is caused by poor social conditions, emotional issues (rejection, alientation, being ugly) cognitive problems (poor communication) etc. these problems maybe the cause of depression. the body is then releasing chemicals that tell the perosn to withdraw from life. .

Nice theory. Wrong, and over simplified, but amusing. Depression is sometimes the LACK, of vitamins and minerals, not the presence of 'chemicals', released at the behest of the brain.

same shit in a different bucket

I have to agree that this TeenScreen program sounds very dodgy. I also agree that psychiatrists are very quick to diagnose someone with a mental illness, and then to shove medication down their throats.
Your child is hyperactive or stubborn? Your child throws tantrums (as if adults don't throw tantrums, especially couples)? Obviously its ADHD!
What's worse is that parents lap this shit up like dogs to gravy. They would prefer ADHD to an explaination where...
1. The blame rests at least partially with the parents. Better to shove pills down your child's throat, than actually changing your parenting technique, or spending some time with the kid.
or/and
2. The child is acting like a normal irrational 10 year old. Even adults (especially young adults) have moments of stupidity or rage. That's the human condition. People, in general, are stupid, impulsive, arrogant, emotional twits. However, parents just can't bear the idea of toughing it out for 18 years.

What's worse is that a lot of these drugs DO have negative side-effects. And there may be very harmful long-term side-effects that we don't yet know about. Drugs which have been used to treat mental 'illnesses' in the past have been pulled from the shelves post haste when they were discovered to be harmful. In fact, I have a friend who took medication for ADHD (which he genuinely has) when he was a child, which was recently banned. Even to this day, he suffers from side-effects, especially insomnia.

In summary, drugs should only be taken AS A LAST RESORT. However, greedy corporations + shrinks are using them as the front line in the war against the human condition.

In my opinion, psychiatrists are right up the top there with lawyers and private dentists when it comes to being shifty, money-grabbing bastards. Sure, all professions are greedy to some extent in our capitalist society, but private dentists, lawyers and psychiatrists love to screw very needy people over.

VERY good, till where you claim your friend was given medicatin for 'ADHD' "(which he genuinely has)" NO, your friend doesn't. the whole point of what i am saying is that ADHD does not exist. psychiatric 'diseases' do NOT exist. Behaviours considered unacceptable by the prevailing mindset, yes, diseases of the brain, a decisive no!

Nice theory. Wrong, and over simplified, but amusing. Depression is sometimes the LACK, of vitamins and minerals, not the presence of 'chemicals', released at the behest of the brain.
i did say depression is not caused by chemicals.

like i also said it is an example, really just to illustrate a point.

the problem is mental disorders are not chemical problems. the chemcial imbalances are caused by the mental disorder, the mental disorder are not being caused by the chemical imablance.

example depression is not caused by an imbalance of chemicals, depression is caused by poor social conditions, emotional issues (rejection, alientation, being ugly) cognitive problems (poor communication) etc. these problems maybe the cause of depression. the body is then releasing chemicals that tell the perosn to withdraw from life. thus we have depression and it appears to be caused by chemicals. this is only an example so plaease bear that in mind when you get out your flame throwers.

apply the same with different variables to all mental disorders and you will understand why psychiatry fails to effectively cure patients.

maybe you wont understand, i will spell it out.

psychiatry is not treating the problem it is treating a symptom of a problem and so the problem continues and the symptom is masked.

the person who once felt depressed now has no access to that feeling. ah! you may say, but the depression has gone away the person now smiles and is not withdrawing from life.

that may be so but the person is not whole, the the internal communication via chemical signals are being severely disrupted. with more debilitating disorders the more powerful medication are causing more severe problems to the users of psychiatric treatment.

this is a greater problem and a danger to society when it is backed by coporations that have vested interested in promoting their products.
BRILLIANT! ellion. you have so succintly and eloquently described what is going on i applaud you.......amd so impressed i may even copy it out in me notes and thats an honour to you. Bravo

i did say depression is not caused by chemicals.

.

It is in some instances. Your brush is too broad. You cannot make sweeping statements and expect not to be pulled up on them.

Also, your focus is off. While chemical imbalances may not be the cause of all depression, pharmaceuticals may well aid a cure in some instances. That, surely is the point of this 'teenscreen program', to diagnose what help, if any, that teenagers need?

teenagers dont need chemical help. that is the point and that is why i paint with a broad brush. it doesnt matter to me what disorder you are talking about i will tar all chemical treatments for mental disorders with this same brush.

and of course i expected my sweeping statments to be pulled down that is why i said "this is only an example so please bare in mind when you get your flame throwers out".


"the problem is mental disorders are not chemical problems. the chemcial imbalances are caused by the mental disorder, the mental disorder are not being caused by the chemical imablance"
my original point and i willstand by it pull it down if you wish.

duendy:

VERY good, till where you claim your friend was given medicatin for 'ADHD' "(which he genuinely has)" NO, your friend doesn't.

Well, actually, he does. He suffered some mild brain damage as a child, and has ADHD because of it. Or, he has all of the symptoms of someone that suffers from ADHD. This has been proven by numerous CAT scans, which demonstrate damaged parts of the brain.


the whole point of what i am saying is that ADHD does not exist.

I disagree. ADHD does exist, if you define ADHD as a particular set of symptoms. However, my contention is that it is overwhelmingly over-diagnosed.


psychiatric 'diseases' do NOT exist.

Do you believe that damage to the brain, or chemical imbalances, can result in a change in the behaviour of the individual?


Behaviours considered unacceptable by the prevailing mindset, yes, diseases of the brain, a decisive no!

I think I'm starting to see what you're getting at. I guess that whether something should be defined as a disease, is subjective up until a point. Merely because someone is in the minority, does not mean that they are 'diseased', per se. Left-handers are in the minority... do they suffer from left-handed disease?

However, I would contend that merely being in the minority is not what qualifies certain physical/mental states as diseases. Not only are they in the minority, but they would have to be detrimental to the health and well-being of the individual.

I dont understand.
Do you (Communist Hamster and Phlogistican) actually support this program? This will lead to many more people using drugs to fix issues related to being a teen.
I'm neither against it nor for it. As others have said, if it leads to drugs being prescribed when there really is no need of them, that would be bad. It's intentions are good: diagnosing teenagers with mental conditions early on, which may avoid unpleasant scenarios later in life. Of course, care must be taken not to misdiagnose "being a whining emo" as "depression". Then America would have drug-addled emos on its hands.

teenagers dont need chemical help.

Some obviously do.

that is the point and that is why i paint with a broad brush.

That is incorrect, and that is why it's incorrect to lump everything in together.

it doesnt matter to me what disorder you are talking about i will tar all chemical treatments for mental disorders with this same brush.

Clearly it doesnt matter to you, Which is why you oversimplify things too much. Specific disorders need specific treatment. So it DOES matter.

Some obviously do.
chemicals do not cure mental disorders they only help to inhibit some neurological content. which can have more serious problems.


That is incorrect, and that is why it's incorrect to lump everything in together.no that is the truth. chemicals do not heal the mind. they simply disrupt neurological processes.


Clearly it doesnt matter to you, Which is why you oversimplify things too much. Specific disorders need specific treatment. So it DOES matter.mental disorders do not need chemical treatment. i dont see a problem with simplifying things when the simplest solution fits most adequetly.

[edited]idid not mean to say "help to cure" i meant to say "chemicals do not cure the mind"

chemicals do not help to cure mental disorders they only help to inhibit some neurological content. which can have more serious problems.

Completely WRONG! For one, some depression can be corrected by something as simple as taking vitamins and minerals! This is a cure! Correct diet can be a cure. Food IS chemicals!


no that is the truth. chemicals do not heal the mind. they simply disrupt neurological processes.

You seem to be focussing on something rather abstract, 'the mind' it's about more than that, the whole body, organs, metabolism, brain, and personality.


mental disorders do not need chemical treatment. i dont see a problem with simplifying things when the simplest solution fits most adequetly.

You don't see a problem, because you don't understand the problem. For instance, one cause of depression can be gluten allergy. Coeliacs can suffer a slow metabolism, and increase in weight, due to their allergy. This can lead to depression. A mere change of diet can cure depression.

Lithium and Zinc can be used to treat depression too, as deficiencies in these cause depression. You seem to be abstracting the 'mind' from the biological entity that is the brain, and the brain responds to chemicals, and is just another organ.

duendy:

Well, actually, he does. He suffered some mild brain damage as a child, and has ADHD because of it. Or, he has all of the symptoms of someone that suffers from ADHD. This has been proven by numerous CAT scans, which demonstrate damaged parts of the brain.

me)))IFhe has had brain damage that can be diagnosed as such then it is kosher disease isn't it?if it is organic then it's a disease, but i dont understand where 'ADHD' comes in because that is a phony label for aphony disease. are you rying to tell me all the millions of children diagnosed with 'ADHD' have had brain damage when young?

I disagree. ADHD does exist, if you define ADHD as a particular set of symptoms. However, my contention is that it is overwhelmingly over-diagnosed.

me)))well it doesn't. I you need to speak with smeone much more experienced than myself to hopefully put you straight about this i will foreward you his email address and you can inquire. This person, Dr Fred Baughman is THE major activist about tis scam, and has challenged the very head of the APA about it, and was met with ignoreant silence! Surely if the head of te APA had adquate proof that ADHD an actual disease he would have presenrted the evidence ....? he , et l, has declined many times. And not just about ADHD neither, about so-called mental illness in general.


Do you believe that damage to the brain, or chemical imbalances, can result in a change in the behaviour of the individual?

me))))damage to the brain ia exactly that. 'chcmical imbalance' is a phony pseduo term which means precisley nothing. YES, if a prson has ACTUAL brain injury from someting this most definately will change teir behaviour, but if someone tries to phaologize BEHAVIOUR by calling it chemical imbalance etc,etc., then that is pseudo-medical science


I think I'm starting to see what you're getting at. I guess that whether something should be defined as a disease, is subjective up until a point. Merely because someone is in the minority, does not mean that they are 'diseased', per se. Left-handers are in the minority... do they suffer from left-handed disease?

me))))YES. it is usually the marginalized who have suffered at the 'helpin' hands, and INSTRUMENTS! and DRUGS! of psychiatry. The poor, women, black peoples, ethnid peoples, children, dissenters, and so on

However, I would contend that merely being in the minority is not what qualifies certain physical/mental states as diseases. Not only are they in the minority, but they would have to be detrimental to the health and well-being of the individual.
you blow hot and cold mate. try and study Fred Baughman. he really will put you in the picture if you open up to what he's saying
A VITAL thing to always always ALLWAYSkeep in mind is the culture/al mindset all this shit is going on in. the paradigm. what shrinks do, and all sititutions is try and divert attention AWAY from this mindset and onto its victims. with me? this is why all tis is so radical, because to actually FACEit, we have to BE radical. and you see the maintainers of tis et-up do not want that one bit. they will sooner kosh you etc with their drugs.....can't fit in at SCHHHOL????!!!! drug HIM/HER!....institution of school's not even LOOKED at! etcetera

oh yeahhh, and institution of BIG FOOD's not even looked at!!

Numerous "ad-hom" posts deleted to try and keep this thread open.

chemicals do not cure mental disorders they only help to inhibit some neurological content. which can have more serious problems.
--------There are no cures for many mental problems, therefore mitigation through chemicals often provides the only relief possible and can allow the person to live a satisfying life however they define it.

no that is the truth. chemicals do not heal the mind. they simply disrupt neurological processes.
----------So? Some neurological processes need to get interrupted.


mental disorders do not need chemical treatment. i dont see a problem with simplifying things when the simplest solution fits most adequetly.
-----------How do you know? Or are you just guessing?

[edited]idid not mean to say "help to cure" i meant to say "chemicals do not cure the mind"
They can allow someone who thinks there is something terminally wrong with them to get a respite from symptoms, and therefore it does help heal the mind.

There are no cures for many mental problems, therefore mitigation through chemicals often provides the only relief possible and can allow the person to live a satisfying life however they define it.there are many cures for many mental problems, the worry that i have is that problems that can be cured without medication are treated with medication. as you say the intention is to give relief from something supposedly incurable but then the cure is denied in favour of the prescribed relief.

So? Some neurological processes need to get interrupted. you dont see a problem with this. you have this process for a reason there is something worng with how you are realting to reality, what should be fixed is the realtionship to reality not the neurology which is a consequence.


How do you know? Or are you just guessing?
experience, i have had many diagnosis but i am no longert under psychiatric "care" and i am now a therapist.

my first diagnosis was depression
then post traumatic stress disorder
then paranoid psychosis
then paranoid schizophrenia
each new diagnosis gained me the added benefit of stronger medication plus the increase of dosages during the terms of each illness. maybe you cannot see as clearly as i can how my illness developed as my mental condition deteriorated. the effects of the medications on the other patients and my awareness of my own deterioration encouraged me to stop allowing the psychiatric team to medicate me which by the end of my episode was depot injections every fortnight.

having stopped my medication and being very coy with the mental health team i gradually recovered.

my final diagnosis was then drug induced psychosis before i was discharged.

as a therapist with expereince in both roles, i have seen much more positive results form therapies than from medication.

They can allow someone who thinks there is something terminally wrong with them to get a respite from symptoms, and therefore it does help heal the mind.a respite for symptoms yes, but when it is promoted as the only solution, that is not good, when the medication is active in the deterioration of the nervous system and exarcerbates the problem that is very, very bad.

What worked for you doesn't work for everyone. Some conditions are indeed uncurable. You are correct to some extent that many conditions are misunderstood and misdiagnosed. Also that drugs are crude and often ineffective in some cases. Many mental illnesses aren't just psychological, but stem from neurological problems, actual differences in brain development, which can be seen in scans.

What worked for you doesn't work for everyone. Some conditions are indeed uncurable. You are correct to some extent that many conditions are misunderstood and misdiagnosed. Also that drugs are crude and often ineffective in some cases. Many mental illnesses aren't just psychological, but stem from neurological problems, actual differences in brain development, which can be seen in scans.
No you are wrong spidergoat. Scans, and any measureing devices cannot detect mental illness as disease. please see tis. People like Dr Buaghman, etc., are not playing with tis very serious issue. He --being neurosurgeon knos what he is talking about. As i will remind you, he has been to many significant hearings about tis scam and hac challenged some of the biggest players in it and that includes head of the APA! And no evidence has been forthcoming. They evade and ignore.
There also was a very relevant article in the New york Times (have tis in my notes somewhere, but you could save me the trouble--my notes aren't indexed! and google it?) about the uelessness of scans etc to detect 'mental illness', and if any damage IS found it is rather due to the toxic damage to the brain caused by the 'medication' etc.,!

there are many cures for many mental problems, the worry that i have is that problems that can be cured without medication are treated with medication. as you say the intention is to give relief from something supposedly incurable but then the cure is denied in favour of the prescribed relief.

you dont see a problem with this. you have this process for a reason there is something worng with how you are realting to reality, what should be fixed is the realtionship to reality not the neurology which is a consequence.



experience, i have had many diagnosis and but i am no longert under psychiatric "care" and i am now a therapist.

my first diagnosis was depression
then post traumatic stress disorder
then paranoid psychosis
then paranoid schizophrenia
each new diagnosis gained me the added benefit of stronger medication plus the increase of dosages during the terms of each illness. maybe you cannot see as clearly as i can how my illness developed as my mental condition deteriorated. the effects of the medications on the other patients and my awareness of my own deterioration encouraged me to stop allowing the psychiatric team to medicate me which by the end of my episode was depot injections every fortnight.

having stopped my medication and being very coy with the mental health team i gradually recovered.

my final diagnosis was then drug induced psychosis before i was discharged.

as a therapist with expereince in both roles, i have seen much more positive results form therapies than from medication.

a respite for symptoms yes, but when it is promoted as the only solution, that is not good, when the medication is active in the deterioration of the nervous system and exarcerbates the problem that is very, very bad.

Wow ellion!!! You've really been there and bought the tshirt aint you. IF people want to know the truth THE best person is NOT ask a shrink, but ask a shrink's 'survivor'---and in your case you have come through that nightmare. I am glad mate...

Listen i have found this which gives examples of Teenscreen questionnire

http://www.progressiveconvergence.com/review-jim-grapek.htm

thanx duendy.

i was lucky to have the capacipty to recognise the real problem and get myself out before i became any worse.

i and my family were told that there was nothing that could be done for me too, we were told it was inevitable that my health was to continue to deteriotrate as a natrual consequence of the disease. well this obviously was not true as it took me only about six months of perserverance with my psychosis, without any medication, before i was able to cope with my symptoms and find some stability. it was very difficult but then i was on my own and i was also fighting my family, who believed what they were told by the psychiatric team.


i had a look at the questionaire and i think it is just generally poorly compiled. so i would be more concerend with who compiled it and how they will analayse the data.

it is going to need to be reviewed to a more acceptable standard, that could be worrying if they are serving some malicious aggenda with this, and they are going to be reviewing the questionaire to make it more "suitable" or "acceptable" or "effective". i suppose for me it is the integrity of the programme that is questionable.

also i just dont like the idea of fishing for patients. when people (teenagers or not) are in such distress that they are identifying crisis they will seek help naturally or there will be obvious signs that are unquestionable.

data can be misinterpreted even a one to one diagnosis is not reliable we definitley should not be trusting psychometric tests to determine how mentally stable teenagers are.

thanx duendy.

i was lucky to have the capacipty to recognise the real problem and get myself out before i became any worse.

i and my family were told that there was nothing that could be done for me too, we were told it was inevitable that my health was to continue to deteriotrate as a natrual consequence of the disease. well this obviously was not true as it took me only about six months of perserverance with my psychosis, without any medication, before i was able to cope with my symptoms and find some stability. it was very difficult but then i was on my own and i was also fighting my family, who believed what they were told by the psychiatric team.

me))))Yes, they can be very convincing, of course. The authority!

i had a look at the questionaire and i think it is just generally poorly compiled. so i would be more concerend with who compiled it and how they will analayse the data.

me)))It is devized by a mindset totally at a loss with actual reality. a mechanist-corporatist brain in action. click click cluck. The very idea of A psychologistical-questionarre 'weedin out' the 'mentally defectives' is pure corporatism. Have you read the book 'Storming Heaven, by Jay Steven's by any chance??

it is going to need to be reviewed to a more acceptable standard, that could be worrying if they are serving some malicious aggenda with this, and they are going to be reviewing the questionaire to make it more "suitable" or "acceptable" or "effective". i suppose for me it is the integrity of the programme that is questionable.

me)))))It most definately Is malicious. Itis Big Pharma led. At te Columbia site i read that tis enterprise has been funded by 'priavet businesses' etc, and 'NOT' by big pharm...hah. i want to try find out who these funders are . i reckon it's the sneaky route, of course

also i just dont like the idea of fishing for patients. when people (teenagers or not) are in such distress that they are identifying crisis they will seek help naturally or there will be obvious signs that are unquestionable.

me)))))Of COURSE tis is te point. target te vulnerabloes, and we ALL know who teenage years is like. So have ancient cultures who had the inteligence to have Rites of Passage. Whereas this lot hand out dodgy questionaiires and big pharma rubbin their greedy hands togther in gleeful anticipation behind the 'curtain'!

data can be misinterpreted even a one to one diagnosis is not reliable we definitley should not be trusting psychometric tests to determine how mentally stable teenagers are.
i completely agree. I mean...sheeeit, and look wose pushin this con. whyyy, the neo cons, an we knows about THEM don't we..???

btw, i received an email this morn....from VeraCare. cant find the questionarre info--actually can't remember asking them, but te site seems to have some interesting links. here it is:
www.ahrp.org/cms/