Okay people,

Amid the speculation of the fate of Egypt Air, least we forget the victims of TWA 800. Recently a report released by French officials have placed the blame firmly in the palm of the US Military.

The full story can be found here.

http://cnn.com/US/9703/13/twa/index.html

When you read this article, please remember that this is an official source, not some crack pot conspiracy web page. Then ask yourself who should we be more afraid of? Extremist terrorists, or bungling government incompetance?

(What the heck. This IS the Conspiracy forum...)

As much as I doubt the government or it's agencies would admit to the incident, I also find it disturbing that the only stories cropping up that point to a guilty US military are coming from Communist sources.

I'm pretty sure France isn't a communist state, and since the end of the cold war either is Russia.

The main evidence for the French claims exist in the recorded radar footage, which shows a missile heading toward the plane.

France is not Communist on paper, but ask 666 about the political ideals of her government heads (not toilets, either :D). He's got a lot of information on that, complete with sources. As for Russia, they're so screwed up they don't know what they are. See 666 about this, too.

I didn't see any images from the tape. Are there any?

Mike,

France is a socialist country which is one step away from communism. Even at that France is sympathetic to the communist cause. As for Russia, the big misconception is that with the fall of the Iron Curtain communism fell with it. The hard line communist party is very strong in Russia and gaining speed every month. Due to the fact they (the Russian people) were so harshly forced into to a chaotic system which you can't even call capitalist, more like anarchy. More and more the Russian people are feeling like their lives were better before. This is becuase of the USA. We fought so hard to bring down the Iron Curtain but never set up a vaild plan to help the Russians enter a new form of government. Communism is still very prevalent in the world. Just look at how many countries are under communist rule and becuase of ther globalization of our economy we are forced to embrace these countries and support their efforts. If you have other questions fire away. I'm thinking of starting a topic along these lines but on a bit larger of a scope.

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The Belief that there is only one truth and that oneself is in possession of it
seems to me the depest root of all evil that is in the world
-Max Born


[This message has been edited by 666 (edited November 19, 1999).]

Hell, Canada is a centrist nation, which is one step away from socialist, which is, as the French communists will attest to, a Marxian utopia. And those Mexicans, the way we're exploiting them, it's as if they don't care about money and profit. We certainly can't trust them.
We're surrounded!!

Of course, the US is so far right it's practically, dare I say it, fascist???

Here's another site that you might be interested in:

http://www.accessone.com/~rivero/CRASH/TWA/twa.html

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www.indigenousrocks.com (http://www.indigenousrocks.com)

And another one:

http://www.angelfire.com/hi/TWA800/witnessreports.html

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www.indigenousrocks.com (http://www.indigenousrocks.com)

Dave, do you know any Mexicans? The ones I know, mostly actually from Mexico, are very concerned with money. That's why they come up here and take the crappiest jobs that the gringos don't want. They work their colas off in the field for slave wages because it's more money than their relatives back home have ever seen.

As far as America leaning too far to the right, it depends on where you're standing. I see it as leaning too far to the left. Where you see fascism, I see the brink of anarchy.

Oxygen & 666

There's a ring of communist paranoid manhunts of the sixties ringing in your posts.

Yes France has a left wing government, but the economics of socialism that your suggesting just wouldn't fit in to the Western European Unions integrated economy, ands what's Russia's economic turmoil got to do with an air accident in the US? It seems fairly clear to me that the US doesn't want to give up its cold war propaganda machine.

Good old fashioned snobbery if you ask me. It's not enough that 230 people are dead because of a US Army F**K *P! But you have to insult the memories of the people who died, because it's more of an embarrassment to admit the Russians aren't such useless bumbling hicks as you'd like people to believe, and in this case have evidence which if true demonstrates incompetence on a tremendous scale.

I don't understand Oxygen why you said "Why does all the evidence point to a US blunder" Well in this case to me it seems fairly clear that the guilty party is holding a smoking gun. These denials by your government are an insult to the ideals for which your country says it represents and was founded upon.




[This message has been edited by Mike (edited November 22, 1999).]

Mike,

I'm not looking for a manhunt. I was just pointing out the facts. If see things for what they are is paranoia, then I am in the discussion group.

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The Belief that there is only one truth and that oneself is in possession of it
seems to me the depest root of all evil that is in the world
-Max Born

If the US military was the cause of the disaster it wouldn't be the first or the last that I can assure you.

666,

I think the problem here is that apparently the west won the cold war. We've been told by our governments that the Russians are a bunch of useless hicks so many times, that for them to Admit Russian credibility at this stage of the game would cast doubt on there own credibility.

Look at Chechnya, during the Kosovo farce we were all told that the Russians could barely feed themselves, and now they're fighting "and winning" a gorilla war. So far their response to west disapproval has been a two finger salute, and who is gonna do anything about it? Nobody that's who, because ? Well that's easy. They're not as crippled as we've been told, and may be their military capability isn't as inadequate as our governments would have us believe

To me it's not about communist manhunts, it's about mutual respect. Russia is being treated by the west after the cold war in a similar way to how Germany was treated after WW1, and we all know what happened next.

The TWA 800 event is a good example, they've offered to help uncover a mystery. The US response is to say to the world that these people are idiots "only to cover their own tracks". Now if somebody called your nation a bunch of idiots, how would that make you feel? Coupled with economic hardship, eventually you reach a point whereby you have nothing to loose but everything to gain.

At this rate the communists will get back into power, may be that's what the US government wants? You tell me.

Searcher.
Great band. Downloaded the realplayer. Excellent. Nothing to do with this string, but thought you should know. Best link on this board.
Regards, Bert. Kisses to Oxygen too ;)

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Accept it.

Bert-Fresh!

Just so this post isn't a total waste of bandwidth, has anybody heard the current explanation of that flight that flew for a few hours with everybody on board dead? It was the one that killed that golfer. I've heard that a slow oxygen leak (not me! I swear!) put everybody slowly to sleep without tripping the alarms before they all suffocated. Anybody hear anything different?

Mike,

At this rate the communists will get back into power, may be that's what the US government wants? You tell me.

This is exactly what I am talking about they have regained power and will continue to build more. In fact they real haven't lost any power at all. As for the US telling us that they are useless hicks, well that is exactly what they want you to believe. The fear faded before the Iron Curtain fell. They had to end the cold war. Now they over do the enviroment issue (not that it is a light issue)to strike fear into us. Fear is used to promote confusion and that they have done very well. The centralized banks, which is run by the CFR and has maintained a domminate presence in the presidential cabinet ever sence Pres. Wilson works very close with the communist. It is no mistake they chose the comunists as bed fellows. The communists boast a no class society but in fact have a 2 class society, the under class and the ruling class. If the CFR throws in with the communist they will end up on top. They have a lot of money wrapped up in this whole thing. They run the fed. reserve (our centralized bank) and are working on centralizing the world's banks. Ok well now I am starting to ramble. so for now I will say good night.



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The Belief that there is only one truth and that oneself is in possession of it
seems to me the depest root of all evil that is in the world
-Max Born

666,

So what makes you believe that communists are back in power, and to that matter. What's the difference to us in the West even if they are?

Just because people have different political beliefs doesn't make them evil. To say it's not democratic is non-sensicle, because there is no true democratic society, and the US is a good example of that

Mike-Interesting you should bring up the fact that the US is not a true democracy. When I was very young, but not too young to understand such things, I noticed that our Pledge of Alleigance says of our nation:

I pledge alleigance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

In song and rhetoric, the US is described as a republic. True democracy, like communism, is a fine way to deal with smaller groups of people. Which one you use may depend on your goal, but both systems are equally ineffective when dealing with entire nations.

Can you imagine if every eligible voter in the US were allowed to write in just anybody as president? We're talking world-class logistical mess, here. I believe it's more accurate to describe the US as a democratically-based republic.

[This message has been edited by Oxygen (edited November 24, 1999).]

Oxygen,
With everything important going on behind the scenes are we sure its a democracy or even close for that matter? Does our input really matter
with most issues? Lets face it, the american people are the last to know.
democracy-government by the people.2 political and social equality in general.
We are becomeing isolated to this definition with every passing day.

Alien



[This message has been edited by Alien (edited November 24, 1999).]

666,

Demos-Cratos or Peoples Rule "ish"

If you wanted to become President, would it be possible? How many of your Presidents in the last 40-50 years haven't been multi millionaires? How many of your Presidents have been non-white, and from the elite ruling class? How many of your Senators aren't millionaires?

It seems to me that a nation that has a minority in control, and only that minority can attain power, is a direct contradiction of democracy.

Yet Americans are told every day on TV that they live in the ultimate democracy, and that they live in the land of the free.

Well for some reason, and I don't understand why? American culture is.... If it's on TV, well then it must be true.

My apologies if you find that insulting, but isn't that just the truth?

Thanks, Bert - glad you enjoyed it! Saw them in concert Friday - they really rocked the place! :)

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www.indigenousrocks.com (http://www.indigenousrocks.com)

Mike,

There are a lot of people in the US who belive every thing they see on TV or read in the news paper. To show you how far the conspiracie goes, the CFR owns all major TV network, news station, and news paper here in the US. To dwell on how America conturdictory to it's base foundation (the constition) is just simply dwell on a minor issue. We (citizens) need to move pass it and focus on the issues at hand. Such as pulling out of the UN totaly.

The communist never lost thier power in Russia. They simply used a tatical surrender, as they have done in the past many times before. You may ask how that may help them. Simple, as long as we (the citizens of the US and other countries) belive that they no longer have the strangle hold that they have had we don't bother them. This allows them more time to gain more controll. How do I come to this conclusion? The big misconception is that the USSR feel over night. That belief is total wrong. The USSR feel over a period over years, in fact Gorbachev filed his papers to open the Green Cross ( an international enviromental organization) 1 year before the USSR feel. Now normaly this would mean nothing, but he was going to be the one running the Green Cross. Running an organization like this is no simple task and would not allow him to run his country. Did he chose the fate of the USSR? On top of that he had made a speach to his cabinet and other high goverment officals that there would be a lot of outward changes, but the goverment would be run the same as before.

***********DISCLAIMER!***********************
To much ale and conspriacies do mix! Don't complain about the spelling I know it is bad! Now look here PAL! :)
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The Belief that there is only one truth and that oneself is in possession of it
seems to me the depest root of all evil that is in the world
-Max Born


[This message has been edited by 666 (edited November 25, 1999).]

[This message has been edited by 666 (edited November 25, 1999).]

Searcher, downloaded another song. I'll look out for a CD. Great!


Oxygen, you card you.


Mike, as to the usa not being a true democracy think of this.


republican or democrat - some people just have too much choice.

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Accept it.

666,

The United Nations is a forum for all nations no matter how big or small were all are equal, and all can voice their opinions to the rest of the world. We may live in the bloodied century, but I feel without the UN it would have been by far much bloodier.

Anyway, the US is in depth by a number of billions to the UN, the US supplies the absolute minimum number of troops that it can, and the UN HQ is in the US. It's fairly clear to me that the US gets alot more from this forum for which it uses to publicise its international policy than what it puts in.

Bert - if you have a Border's near you, you should be able to find a CD there. "Things We Do" was their first album, which was recorded at Pachyderm Studios - my personal favorite. "Blues This Morning" is good, but only has 6 songs on it (2 are hidden "bonus tracks"). "Live Blues From the Sky" was recorded in front of a live audience at the Nebraska Public TV Studios - another great one!

I apologize for the detour; now back to the discussion at hand. :)

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www.indigenousrocks.com (http://www.indigenousrocks.com)

Did anybody think about our own country? Mike could be right about France saying they saw a missile on their radar. The military is hiding their problem and don't want to admit they screwed up.

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everything is not what it
appears to be