The Dutch right-wing politician Pim Fortuyn has been shot dead, according to Dutch media reports. Police say Mr Fortuyn was shot six times and suffered multiple wounds in the chest and neck, but have not yet officially confirmed that he has been killed. (Full text here (http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/world/europe/newsid_1971000/1971423.stm)) Fortuyn was such a hard concept to grasp... A liberal, gay, right-wing xenophobic demagogue. My theory? Some PolySci major was so confused by the whole thing that he shot Fortuyn. The student was afraid that he might be asked to explain Fortuyn in a research paper.

Peace.

Yes. Pim Fortuyn was leaving a Media park in which he'd given a talk in a radio show. It's outrageous this happened. For the record, this man was a candidate for the coming elections on May 15. The whole Dutch country has reacted in horror about this assasination. The assasin shot about 10 times and hit Fortuyn 3 times, 2 times in the head and 1 time in the chest. The man was threatened since a week or so, more times on a day. He refused to take body guards with him. I wonder if it would have helped him.

Don't know what to say about it now. The Netherlands are gonig down in a big mess they created themselves and it's escalating.

Cars of politicians are set on fire Monday evenening, shortly after the assasination of Fortuyn. the assasin's been caught and held for interrogation. There are some people in the Netherlands saying that's a good thing we don't have the death penalty there, for it should be a too easy way out.

It's a mess. I have no words for this! How was it even possible in this democracy? The prime minister has canceled the election date and what made it worse was that on May 5, the celebration was of the liberation of the Netherlands from WWII.

A member at a Dutch Forum said it like this: It's a shame to be one of the human race!

People want to leave the Netherlands. First talk about this assasination were that it probably was a Marroccan or other foreigner. Well, it turned out to be a white male from 33 years old. Further info about him is not yet available. It probably is in the e-mail right now. I get the newspapers from the Netherlands in there, via www.kranten.com

I'm lost for words, really.

Guess you get a vague impression of what's going on at the moment in the Netherlands. You should read the Dutch neswpapers. It's unbelievable! Outrageous!

It made me very sad, I want to go back to the Netherlands because of what happened. The whole country is turned upside down. I quit, I'm really upset and can't expres my feelings very well now.

I am so sorry. I feel so sad for what's happening right now. Am not very capable of typing either now. I am sorry if this post is a mess. I cry for my country and the way it turned; the road to nowhere...

(no jokes please, it's really not funny)

Mr Fortuyn complained that he was 'demonized' by the establishment. I am afraid that in a certain way he was. He had some very strange ideas- true, but he was not the xenophobic ultra-right wing person he was portrayed as. He was very much troubled by this portrayal, he would get very angry if compared to e.g. Le Pen. Surely, he had this air that caused a lot of tumult in discussions: something like an arrogant, exarrerating dandy.
To be honest, I also believed he was all about xenophobia until some weeks ago. I still would not ave voted for Fortuyn, since I cannot agree with his program on many subjects.

The true motives of the assasin are not officially known. But it makes me wonder, was Fortuyn right when he said (on national television):"if I will be killed the political establishment is partly responsible, because they make me look like a demon and have created an atmosphere in which an attack may take place." ?

Originally posted by Merlijn
...it makes me wonder, was Fortuyn right when he said (on national television):"if I will be killed the political establishment is partly responsible, because they make me look like a demon and have created an atmosphere in which an attack may take place."?The people labeling the late Mr. Fortuyn as being extreme right-wing could quite possibly be indirectly responsible for his death. From the beginning of his political career it seems that he has been misinterpreted and misquoted.

I think the label he was given as being a right-wing extremist is a bit exaggerated. Surely he had some fairly unconventional ideas about Dutch immigration policy, but not more than a few other parties. He only voiced it a bit more. I think that's the whole controversy about Fortuyn existence - it is not so much that he had some un-Dutch ideas, but the way he voiced them. Normally politicians in Holland appear rather modest and not too exuberant, Fortuyn on the other hand clearly voiced his ambitions and stated plainly that he knew better than anyone else, making him, to Dutch standards, quite arrogant.

He was quite concerned that people who do not share western values are entering western nations in great numbers, and he thought this would damage the values of a free society. He specifically spoke up about female gender apartheid amongst Muslims and the doctrine of 'honorable revenge' violence. His main problem with the Muslim religion is that certain parts of the Netherlands (especially the big cities as Amsterdam, The Hague and Rotterdam) are becoming safe havens for large groups of immigrants who create their own subculture, where they do not adapt to Dutch customs and/or law. The last few years we have had a lot of honor-killings in the Netherlands. Muslim women have been killed for having affairs and the judges give them lenient sentences because it "is their culture".

He was a flamboyant, arrogant man, but to label him as the new Adolf Hitler, as some news media have done in the Netherlands, was absurd. If there is to be a preservation of Dutch culture and Dutch freedom, the situation should certainly be addresses. Fortuyn didn't have any answers in this respect, but he did draw attention to things that have been ignored for quite some time.

I hope that this incident does not significantly change the free movement of Dutch politicians. The lack of violence and openness of Dutch society is a jewel that should be preserved as an example to the rest of the world.

Peace.

I hope that this incident does not significantly change the free movement of Dutch politicians. The lack of violence and openness of Dutch society is a jewel that should be preserved as an example to the rest of the world.

The Dutch youth is pretty violent at the moment. The death of Fortuyn seems to be an excuse for them to set things on fire and riots.

The Netherlands won't be the same after this. I have very mixed feelings about it. It's a shame I can't follow all of it a little closer, 'cause I don't live there anymore.

I wonder also about the Maroccan ambassador who says to be deeply shocked by this assassination. Like some other immigrant spokesmen (don't know if it's the right word) do.

Further, I am sorry to say so, it is a big mess in the cities. My son was attacked some weeks ago in the city where I used to live and the problems with immigrants are as big as houses over there. For a longer time-period now, that is.

Wish everybody could live in peace and enjoy the lack of violence, openness and hospitality in the Netherlands. Guess it was mayhaps a little too free, I don't know how to write it down, without sounding wrong, can't express it quite right, sorry.

It's gone out of hand, in a rather quick way. I sincerely hope the Netherlands will stay as open-minded as it was before this murder. And that the riots and so, may stop, as soon as now, for instance.

Oh, I'm off of this and the boards. Can't find the right words. Maybe it's better not to post here anymore.

It feels like everybody's gone "crazy", that's not true, it just feels that way...

Banshee,

Based on what you've posted regarding your homeland, you must be feeling really good that you're safe and sound living in the US of A. ;)

(Q),

No, I don't feel really good that I am in America. That's not what I meant and you know it.

Guess you must be feeling really good to post such replies. I would go back to the Netherlands in a jiffy. I have a son there, and parents and friends.

I feel sad for my country. As do a lot of inhabitants of the Netherlands right now.

"There's a change that even with regret cannot be un-done..."

Pim Fortuyn was apparently killed by an animal rights activist who was offended by Fortuyns suggestion to restart the fur trade. Apparently Fortuyn has actively spoken for removing the ban on fur trading in the Netherlands, something that the animal activist, who has participated in the struggle against medical tests on animals, did not like to hear.

Peace.

Explain again how the murder of one extremist whacko by another extremist whacko the "suppression of the far right in Europe"?

I was merely playing off of another thread title for effect.
You'll need to explain why you feel Fortuyn was an "extremist whacko".

Peace.

Yes! Please explain!

I understood from the Dutch news-papers that Pim Fortuyn is "painted" like an extreme-right extremist in foreign news-papers, which is not true. He just spoke up aloud for what a lot of Dutch people were thinking. He was not against immigrants, he wanted a solution for the "river" of illegal immigrants who come into the Netherlands and stay there while seeking asylum and wait for an application to stay in the country. Things were going out of hand with this policy, for the Netherlands is a small country with over 16 million inhabitants, including several different cultures.

There are a lot of problems with the younger generation (Dutch and multi-cultural) now-a-days and that's what he wanted to do something about. It was in no way the case that he was comparible with Le Penn from France, for instance, as is described in several European news-papers.

The relation-ship between the several other cultures and the Dutch people is very good at the moment. All of them convict the assasination and feel very sad this has happened. (now I hope I wrote it down well, as in, understandable :) )

The assasination was done by a disturbed man, to say at the least, who probably had a strange way of thinking. I quit with this, guess you have to inform yourself a little better Northwind...