On August 27, 2003, at 2.21 am (PDT), Mars will come as close to Earth as it has in nearly 60,000 years. At 34.62 million miles, this will be the closest pass since September 12, 57,617 BCE.

It occurs to me that the God of War will be as close as he's been in recorded history.

So in a superstitous game - Will August 27 bring us some warring disaster?

Ongoing difficulties, such as Iraqi attacks against Coalition troops don't count.

Al Qaeda? A mushroom cloud? Dirty bomb? Biochem attack? Massive riot? Anything? Anything?

Okay, it's morbid speculation, but still ...

Welcome to superstition.

("Superstition ain't the way ....")

How coincidental. After logging off sciforums last night and getting ready for bed I stepped outside to look again at the brightest object in the night sky (the moon had set). Noting that I was watching something that had not occurred for 60,000 years I started wondering where all the Martian doomsayers were and thought about posting a thread asking just that. After all, it seems that someone predicting doom or salvation comes popping out of the woodwork for just about any celestial event (comets, planetary alignments, etc). Where is the cult that is predicting Armageddon or perhaps waiting for the Martians to make the now shorter trip to Earth?

Of course, I find such notions to be quite absurd. Celestial events have no impact upon anything but the superstitious imaginations of mankind, except in the rare instances where they physically affect the Earth. Still I find such examples of group hysteria to be wonderful indicators of the mental health and scientific understanding (or lack thereof) of the various cultures in which they occur.

~Raithere

Originally posted by Raithere
How coincidental. After logging off sciforums last night and getting ready for bed I stepped outside to look again at the brightest object in the night sky (the moon had set). Noting that I was watching something that had not occurred for 60,000 years I started wondering where all the Martian doomsayers were and thought about posting a thread asking just that. After all, it seems that someone predicting doom or salvation comes popping out of the woodwork for just about any celestial event (comets, planetary alignments, etc). Where is the cult that is predicting Armageddon or perhaps waiting for the Martians to make the now shorter trip to Earth?

Of course, I find such notions to be quite absurd. Celestial events have no impact upon anything but the superstitious imaginations of mankind, except in the rare instances where they physically affect the Earth. Still I find such examples of group hysteria to be wonderful indicators of the mental health and scientific understanding (or lack thereof) of the various cultures in which they occur.

~Raithere

All I gotta say is that explains why my usually lovable, docile and gentle Retrievers started acting like big bad wolves!

the mutations within my body have become apparent and seem irreversible.
i am suffused with a strange and intense energy that grows stronger as the fateful day approaches. as i sit and await the god of war, i am filled with dark foreboding that my transformation does not bode well for the future of mankind

over and out
spook

Originally posted by Medicine*Woman
All I gotta say is that explains why my usually lovable, docile and gentle Retrievers started acting like big bad wolves!Are you quite sure? My 4 dogs and 5 cats are all acting quite normally, but perhaps you live at a higher elevation. At what distance did the approach of Mars begin to affect your dogs?

~Raithere

hehe

oh dearie me! i have transformed into uncle martin! (http://www.allposters.com/IMAGES/73/039_28666.jpg)

..5 cats are all acting quite normally (raith)

sekhmet the cat goddess that resides on mars will change all that. i urge the utmost caution.

Originally posted by spookz
sekhmet the cat goddess that resides on mars will change all that. i urge the utmost caution.Don't worry, I'm bigger than them.

Besides, they're all pussies.

~Raithere

I have a relative who works in the emergency room and she can attest to the fact that lunar cycles have some sort of effect of the psychos out there. Every full moon she gets the WEIRD cases. People with coke bottles up their anuses, a guy carving words into his own flesh, and every sort of violence imaginable.

Distant things like mars I doubt have any real effect on the world other than the whole "butterfly flapping its wings" thing though.

Originally posted by Clockwood
I have a relative who works in the emergency room and she can attest to the fact that lunar cycles have some sort of effect of the psychos out there.First, one should note that correlation does not imply causation. There is the famous statistic (from N.Y.C. I believe) that shows that as ice cream sales go up, so does violence. How do ice cream sales causing violence? They don't, both are influenced by high temperatures.

The statistics really do not show any significant correlation between the lunar cycle and human behavior.

http://www.univ.trieste.it/~brain/NeuroBiol/Neuroscienze%20per%20tutti/moon.html
http://cosmos.colorado.edu/~gnedin/F02/team14/fullmoon.html

~Raithere

The statistics really do not show any significant correlation between the lunar cycle and human behavior.

That is true, but -

The pineal gland, which is believed to control body's hormonal rhythms (associated with behavior disorders and mood swings), is clearly photosensitive so there may be a connection between its functioning (and therefore one's internal rythms and therefore one's behavior) and the phases of the moon.

I guess, more research is necessary, though.

Originally posted by Circe
The pineal gland, which is believed to control body's hormonal rhythms (associated with behavior disorders and mood swings), is clearly photosensitive so there may be a connection between its functioning (and therefore one's internal rythms and therefore one's behavior) and the phases of the moon.The photosensitivity of the pineal gland does not seem to be a factor in adult mammals, although it does regulate our circadian rhythm. I suppose that moon light could be a factor as well but it would require that we be constantly exposed to its fluctuations. That most of us live indoors at night with artificial light would negate any affect that moonlight might have.

Whereas the pineal organs of lower vertebrates have been shown to be photosensitive, photic regulation of pineal function in adult mammals is thought be mediated entirely by retinal photoreceptors. Extraretinal regulation of pineal function has been reported in neonatal rodents, although both the site and molecular basis of extraretinal photoreception have remained obscure.


In lower vertebrates (e.g., reptiles), the pineal body lies close to the skin and is directly photosensitive: sunlight falling on the overlying skin inhibits melatonin production. In these species, the pineal body has been called a "third eye". In mammals, the pineal gland is deep within the skull and is not photosensitive. The timing of melatonin secretion in mammals is controlled by neural pathways: tracts from the retina of the eye to the *hypothalamus (retino-hypothalamic tract) and from the hypothalamus (suprachiasmatic *nucleus) to the pineal gland. The suprachiasmatic nucleus of the hypothalamus is the master circadian pacemaker in mammals, controlling the timing of most circadian rhythms, including core body temperature, *cortisol secretion, sleepiness, and melatonin secretion.
http://cogweb.ucla.edu/ep/Neurology.html

~Raithere

There is the famous statistic (from N.Y.C. I believe) that shows that as ice cream sales go up, so does violence. (raith)

an example of skeptics resorting to bogus shit to debunk and ridicule.

(1) Planets effect the solar cycle in specific ways.
(2) The solar cycle effects the geomagnetic field.
(3) The geomagnetic field affects life on Earth in certain observed ways.
(4) Specifically, many species, including man, can be influenced by particular states of the geomagnetic field.
(5) The particular influences appear to correlate with the planetary positions.
(6) I propose that the behavior of the fetus at the time of birth is linked to the cycles within the geomagnetic field, which in turn are influenced by the solar cycle and positions of the planets. Resonance is the phenomenon by which the fetus is phase locked to specific cycles. (Percy Seymour) (http://www.mountainman.com.au/astrology_01.htm)

There is a growing body of evidence that changes in geomagnetic field affect biological systems. In particular, homing pigeons and other migratory creatures who use the earth magnetic field as their guidance. Other studies indicate that physically stressed human biological systems may respond to the minute but measurable fluctuations of the geomagnetic field.

Geomagnetic disturbances (http://www.tgo.uit.no/saba/sabathesis/Intro.html)

It might be possible for artificial magnetic fields to directly influence neural transmissions. Even a static 65 millitesla field has been shown to reduce frog skin Na+ transport by 10-30%.500 Each neuronal discharge develops an electrical energy of ~20 picojoule (~1010 kT), far smaller than the magnetic energy stored in a B = 1.4 tesla field of a permanent micromagnet traversing an L3 = (20 micron)3 volume which from Eqn. 6.9 is B2 L3 / 2 m0 ~ 6000 pJ. If properly manipulated, such a field may be sufficient to enhance, modulate, or extinguish a passing neural signal. micromagnets (http://www.skypiece.ru/ru/Interesting_Publications/nanomedicine/4.8.html)

Solar Magnetism Integrates Astronomy And Astrology (http://www.webspace4me.net/~blhill/pages.aux/astrology/solar.mag.html)

So, How does it relate to Astrology (http://www.geocities.com/syzygywjp/Astrology.html)

Frequency-specific blocking in the human brain caused by electromagnetic fields (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Link&db=PubMed&dbFrom=PubMed&from_uid=8994110)

The Solar System Interplanetary Electromagnetic Field Matrix and the Biological Clock (http://www.diamondhead.net/ssiefmbc.htm)

POSSIBLE SPACE WEATHER INFLUENCE ON FUNCTIONAL ACTIVITY OF THE HUMAN BRAIN (www.estec.esa.nl/wmwww/wma/spweather/workshops/SPW_W3/PROCEEDINGS_W3/babayev.pdf)

HEART RATE VARIABILITY PARAMETERS VARIATIONS AT GEOMAGNETIC DISTURBANCES IN ARCTIC AND ANTARCTIC (http://pgi.kolasc.net.ru/Seminar/2002/Proceeding/biosphere/Chernoussl_Antonenko.pdf)

journal (http://salve.slam.katowice.pl/phenomen.html)

critique away!

Originally posted by Raithere
Are you quite sure? My 4 dogs and 5 cats are all acting quite normally, but perhaps you live at a higher elevation. At what distance did the approach of Mars begin to affect your dogs?

~Raithere

Thanks for your comment. I am only 45 feet above sea level on the Gulf Coast. I believe it was Tuesday or Wednesday night, I don't remember now, when the dogs started acting strangely about 4:00 AM. They usually sleep indoors since it's so hot outside and with mosquitos and all, but they started barking, which is something they don't usually do because they are so tame (lame?). When they woke me up, they were dancing in circles. My first thought was that Jenyar had some kind of choreographic influence on them. But they ran to the door, and when I opened the door, they darted out like raving maniacs. The moon was especially bright that night, and huge! Then they started making unusual grunting sounds even when they came back in the house the next morning. They kept me awake all night with their barking, and that is so unusual. I thought they must have smelled a critter in the backyard. They are really good guard dogs when it comes to protecting the house from cats, but when strangers come in, they are friendly and want to be petted. But that night and the next day they acted so peculiar. They seem to be back to normal now, back to their quiet and gentle behavior, but this episode was most strange.

When I was in the USAF and on call in Labor & Delivery, every full moon we'd have an abundance of women in labor! Sometimes during a full moon, I'd have to help out in the ER suturing up all kinds of lacerations. Later, when I was on call in the operating room, we'd get the strange cases like lightbulbs up the wazoo and even cement up the wazoo. That was a sad case. They guy put quick dry cement up his rectum and when it hardened he had an intestinal obstruction. The only way to get it out was to remove the lower part of his intestines. Then he had a colostomy bag. He was only 27 years old. So, I know the influence the moon has, even on me. During a full moon, I get sluggish and drowsy. During a new moon, I get energetic and chipper. It has something to do with the water content of our bodies like the pull of the tides. Women commit more heinous crimes when they are on their menses during a full moon. I read these statistics somewhere. I think it was in NY. This is enough scientific facts for me!

dont women sync their cycles when in close proximity for extended periods? (pun in...)

Originally posted by spookz
dont women sync their cycles when in close proximity for extended periods? (pun in...)

Yes, this is true! It doesn't really have to be that close in proximity, for example, I've known office workers to get 'insync.' Family members, too! I do believe over time they get 'insync.' I don't know exactly what causes this phenomena, but I would guess that it has something to do with being fertile at the same time, so when the males come around, they can share and share alike to keep the species going. That's just a guess. It could also have something to do with pheromones synchronizing their menses. The problem exists when they all have PMS at the same time. (See my earlier post about the high incidence of heinous crimes committed by women is during their cycle. However, I'd be more inclined to say just before their cycle starts, i.e. PMS). Another interesting statistic is that their victims during this time were men. Watch out!

My first thought was that Jenyar

huh? relationship?

unlikely. but it is an ad hominem against Jenyar for quite sometime.

Originally posted by spookz
an example of skeptics resorting to bogus shit to debunk and ridicule.Aw spookz, I thought you'd know me better than that by now.

Correlation does not imply causation; such an assumption is a Logical fallacy, a false categorical syllogism.
http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logical_fallacy/Correlation_implies_causation

Unfortunately, I wasn't able to come up with the particular numbers I was referencing (which I recalled from statistics class). A google search turned up many hits that used the same example but none that supplied the actual statistics. Regardless, the point stands regarding the logical fallacy.

Originally posted by spookz
(1) Planets effect the solar cycle in specific ways.
(2) The solar cycle effects the geomagnetic field.
(3) The geomagnetic field affects life on Earth in certain observed ways.
(4) Specifically, many species, including man, can be influenced by particular states of the geomagnetic field.
(5) The particular influences appear to correlate with the planetary positions.
(6) I propose that the behavior of the fetus at the time of birth is linked to the cycles within the geomagnetic field, which in turn are influenced by the solar cycle and positions of the planets. Resonance is the phenomenon by which the fetus is phase locked to specific cycles.
...
There is a growing body of evidence that changes in geomagnetic field affect biological systems. In particular, homing pigeons and other migratory creatures who use the earth magnetic field as their guidance. Other studies indicate that physically stressed human biological systems may respond to the minute but measurable fluctuations of the geomagnetic field.

You'll note that in my first post I said, "Celestial events have no impact upon anything but the superstitious imaginations of mankind, except in the rare instances where they physically affect the Earth."

Now you might address my use of the word "rare" (the Sun and the Moon have a constant significant effect upon the Earth; daylight, tides, etc.) However, I did indeed take into account that certain celestial events have a physical affect upon the Earth and therefore may sometimes be a factor in a change in human behavior. Though in such events as Mars being a few millions miles closer to us than it has been for 60,000 years, one would be hard pressed to demonstrate any significant changes. The gravitational effect of such a change in proximity is negligible at best and hardly supports the notion that it might have some drastic effect upon our behavior.

"While Mars' gravitational pull on the Earth is 40 times greater than it is when the planet lies at its farthest, it’s 125 trillion times less than the gravitational effect on the Earth by you!" http://www.skyscapes.com/Mars.htm

And there was this in the most impressive of your links (emphasis mine), "Possible effects of the doze and time delay reaction (3) are shown. Analysis of the obtained results does not give evidence that geomagnetic activity influences directly the human organism, because the mechanism of this impact has not been discovered yet."
http://pgi.kolasc.net.ru/Seminar/2002/Proceeding/biosphere/Chernoussl_Antonenko.pdf

Whoops, there goes the correlation does not imply causation issue again.

The fact remains that such influences do not seem to cause any statistically significant effect (other than the obvious, such as circadian rhythms which I did reference) in the behavior of human populations. Little to no statistical correlation can be found for lunar, planetary or stellar effects, despite the depictions as to how such might occur. The most likely reason, taking into account that animals do have certain sensitivities to such things as the magnetic field, is that other conditions have a far greater affect and drown out the 'noise' of these lesser ones. Of course, if you can supply the significant studies that do imply such a correlation I'd be happy to reconsider. Frankly I was surprised that there was little correlation with the lunar cycle as it has such an impressive effect upon the Earth itself.

I don't generally pull things out of my ass spookz, I thought you'd know that by now. And I am more than willing to be corrected when I am mistaken.

~Raithere

Originally posted by spookz
dont women sync their cycles when in close proximity for extended periods? (pun in...) Yes, it is thought to be influenced by pheromones. As an interesting side note: It has been found proximity to men also affects the menstrual cycle.

http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a2_306.html
http://serendip.brynmawr.edu/bb/berman/P1S3.htm

~Raithere

Originally posted by Medicine*Woman
But that night and the next day they acted so peculiar. They seem to be back to normal now, back to their quiet and gentle behavior, but this episode was most strange.Thanks, its an interesting story in any case and I'm glad your beasts (that's what we call ours) are behaving now. The problem, however, is that you're jumping to conclusions by assuming the cause was Mars. Mine set off too every once in a while, of course, and every so often I find a dead rabbit or bird in the back-yard the next day.

When I was in the USAF and on call in Labor & Delivery, every full moon we'd have an abundance of women in labor! Sometimes during a full moon, I'd have to help out in the ER suturing up all kinds of lacerations.
...
During a full moon, I get sluggish and drowsy. During a new moon, I get energetic and chipper. It has something to do with the water content of our bodies like the pull of the tides. Women commit more heinous crimes when they are on their menses during a full moon. I read these statistics somewhere. I think it was in NY. This is enough scientific facts for me!One of the issues to distinguish is a physical causation from a psychological influence. Certainly the brightness of the full (or nearly full) moon in the sky has a significant psychological effect. I know that the full moon shining in my window tends to make it more difficult for me to sleep. This, however, is a psychological affect, not a physical one. This is why one needs to be particularly careful when attempting to discern causality from correlation.

~Raithere

Aw spookz, I thought you'd know me better than that by now.

i agree with you raith however to pull out ice cream as an example is just plain silly. that stat appears famous because it is an extreme example. we could drag out the consumption of iced drinks and find a correlation with criminal behaviour. i bet we could even randomly make associations and find some correlation. shit like this serves no purpose except to ridicule. well.. in my opinion anyway

Regardless, the point stands regarding the logical fallacy.

yes it does

You'll note that in my first post I said, "Celestial events have no impact upon anything but the superstitious imaginations of mankind, except in the rare instances where they physically affect the Earth."

sure. i am also sure that there could be plenty of subtle instances of events of which we are not aware of yet. i leave the door open (and my mind)

Though in such events as Mars being a few millions miles closer to us than it has been for 60,000 years, one would be hard pressed to demonstrate any significant changes.

sure. attempts to demonstrate probably would'nt even get off the ground due to the crackpot factor

The gravitational effect of such a change in proximity is negligible at best and hardly supports the notion that it might have some drastic effect upon our behavior.

drastic? a rather strong word, wouldnt you say? i am at best looking for effects that one can, so to speak, "shrug off"

"While Mars' gravitational pull on the Earth is 40 times greater than it is when the planet lies at its farthest, it’s 125 trillion times less than the gravitational effect on the Earth by you!" http://www.skyscapes.com/Mars.htm

mars, venus.... all the celestial bodies, background radiation...blah

And there was this in the most impressive of your links (emphasis mine), "Possible effects of the doze and time delay reaction (3) are shown. Analysis of the obtained results does not give evidence that geomagnetic activity influences directly the human organism, because the mechanism of this impact has not been discovered yet."
http://pgi.kolasc.net.ru/Seminar/2002/Proceeding/biosphere/Chernoussl_Antonenko.pdf

heh heh
lemme have a crack at the emphasis...."Possible effects of the doze and time delay reaction (3) are shown. Analysis of the obtained results does not give evidence that geomagnetic activity influences directly the human organism, because the mechanism of this impact has not been discovered yet."

Of course, if you can supply the significant studies that do imply such a correlation I'd be happy to reconsider. Frankly I was surprised that there was little correlation with the lunar cycle as it has such an impressive effect upon the Earth itself.

i am sure there are brave and hardy souls attempting such things as we speak. i gotta go back over the links, there should have been something there (however tenuous) or i wouldnt have posted em

I don't generally pull things out of my ass spookz, I thought you'd know that by now. And I am more than willing to be corrected when I am mistaken.

nothing but the utmost respect
:)

Originally posted by spookz
i agree with you raith however to pull out ice cream as an example is just plain sillyIt's an oft used example of the difference between correlation and causality. It's selected as an example because not only is the correlation true the lack of causation is so obvious and silly that it makes the error plain. I wasn't trying to ridicule anyone... I generally save that for people who truly deserve it.

Let me put it this way. I'm willing to support the fact celestial objects have some physical effect upon the human body and mind. However, this effect seems to be very direct and obvious (the sun, the rotation of the Earth, and our diurnal patterns of sleeping and waking) or so negligible as to be obliterated by random noise and more proximal conditions (as in the case with the gravitational effect of Mars). Certainly, there may be some intermediate conditions (such as the waxing and waning of the Moon), but these do not seem statistically evident.

In any case, I do indeed find Astrology to be utter hogwash. Besides the utterly hubristic anthropocentricity, the notion that the movement of the Earth in relation to distant stars or even the nearer planets has any significant effect upon anything beyond human psychology (primarily though belief in such a notion) is simply unsupportable either due to the negligible physical effect or by the lack of statistical evidence.

Such correlations that do occur (if there are any) are far more likely to be causally unrelated and simply coincidentally correlative, such as the fact that North American Sagittarians are born in winter (i.e. Winter has a far more profound affect than the stars on human behavior) than having anything to do with the celestial configurations.

The fact that Mars is several million miles closer to us now has infinitely less effect upon my behavior than the fact that I got my mouth washed with soap once when I was ten for swearing or the fact that I have an infected cut on the back of my left hand.

~Raithere

what about attempts to correlate lunar cycles with certain behaviours?. unneccessary association? offhand i can think of schizo studies, criminal activity...... that show some promise.

dogbites however has been thoroughly discredited;)

Originally posted by spookz
what about attempts to correlate lunar cycles with certain behaviours?. unneccessary association? offhand i can think of schizo studies, criminal activity...... that show some promise.Check one of the sites I offered. Here it is again:

http://www.univ.trieste.it/~brain/NeuroBiol/Neuroscienze%20per%20tutti/moon.html

What you will note is that in most studies there is no significant correlation, those few studies that do are often using smaller data groups where random variation gives the study a larger margin of error or have contrasting studies with entirely different results. In the small number of remaining cases psychology is a primary factor and the psychological influence must be considered when evaluating causation.

~Raithere

agreed. to hell with the moon. i shall wait for nibiru

:D