Sub atomic particles

Discussion in 'Physics & Math' started by baptizo1403, Mar 20, 2010.

  1. baptizo1403 Registered Senior Member

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    I know that there is a fundamental difference between Bosons and Fermions but can someone explain what that difference is?
     
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  3. alephnull you can count on me Registered Senior Member

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    You will probably get some better detailed answers than mine (you'll also probably get some kind of argument break out here at some point as well), but here goes.

    Bosons are subatomic particles which in large numbers adhere to Bose-Einstein statistics.
    Fermions are subatomic particles which in large numbers adhere to Fermi-Dirac statistics.

    Not a very good explanation if you don't understand what Bose-Einstein statistics or Fermi-Dirac statistics are really. How about this:

    Bosons are subatomic particles with integer spin.
    Fermions are subatomic particles with half-integer spin.

    Hmm.. again, not very good to someone who doesn't know what spin is. How about..

    Fermions obey the Pauli exclusion principle, bosons do not.
    :shrug:

    As a final try, how about this: (this is very crude, I recommend sticking with the above and reading up some definitions)

    Bosons are 'force carriers'. They are associated to some force (Strong, weak, electromagnetism, gravity)
    Fermions are what make up matter, they interact with one another by exchanging bosons.
     
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  5. Neverfly Banned Banned

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    LOL
    Pretty much...

    Quantum Mechanics doesn't even make sense to people that understand it.

    I gave up on it years ago, (Ok that's harsh. I haven't really but I accepted the fact I'll never understand it) and focused more on Relativity. The marble is much more elegant than the wood.

    Which doesn't bode well for me, as I don't really understand Relativity... Sheesh...



    One very simple answer might be: Bosons are associated with Radiation, such as light.
    Fermions are associated with Matter, such as orangutan boogers.
    So, light can occupy the same space as other light, whereas matter cannot occupy the same space as other matter.

    Bosons can interact with fermions. (e.g. photons being refracted in water as quanta are exchanged by dislodging an electron).
     
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  7. Walter L. Wagner Cosmic Truth Seeker Valued Senior Member

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  8. baptizo1403 Registered Senior Member

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    So if bosons are force carriers, and light (which is a type of fermion) cannot escape from a black hole then does that mean that there is an exponentially higher number of bosons in a black hole? And is there a type of boson that interacts with a fermion that does not include mass?
     
  9. Walter L. Wagner Cosmic Truth Seeker Valued Senior Member

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  10. alephnull you can count on me Registered Senior Member

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    Light is not a fermion, where did you get that information?

    This question isn't very clear, are you asking if massless bosons exist? Or if massless fermions exist? OR something else?

    I recommend reading at least all the links you have been given so far before you ask any more questions.
     
  11. baptizo1403 Registered Senior Member

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    Im sorry I misread a previous post. I just switched the two around. So im asking if massless fermions exist.
     
  12. AlphaNumeric Fully ionized Registered Senior Member

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    No massless fermions are known, now that neutrinos are known to have mass and unless there are forces which we don't know about and normal matter doesn't interact with much, if at all, then there are no massless fermions.
     
  13. Neverfly Banned Banned

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    Alephnull covered this but I'm going to expand on it a bit...
    I think you got confused about light.

    Light cannot escape a Black Hole not because it has Mass, but because the space is so warped around the black hole by the intense gravity, it loops back on itself.

    Imagine a racecar on a track. As it hits a curve, the outside of the track is elevated well above the inside of the curve of the track. This means the track is banked. Properly banked, the race car driver would not need to Turn The Wheel For The Curve. This anaolgy is close enough to describe how light is Banked back inside the black hole by the incredibly warped space even though it travels in a straight line.

    You can observe this banking of light with less massive objects, like stars.
    Read here.
    It talks about gravitational lensing.

    The rest of the question I didn't quite understand. When you ask about a type of Fermion that interacts with a boson, which particle are you asking about not having mass? ETA: I see this was covered while I was maneuvering my clumsy fingers over the keyboard.
     
  14. baptizo1403 Registered Senior Member

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    Neverfly, thank you for expanding on that. It did help me quite a bit. As far as my question about a type of fermion that interacts with a boson, it seems like my understanding on the subject isnt nearly solid enough to even ask the question. Sorry
     
  15. Neverfly Banned Banned

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    Asking questions is one way to gain solidity.

    Understand... Many people come and go that ACT innocent while concocting some devious plan to demonstrate that Quantum Mechanics or Relativity is All Wrong.
    Others look for others to hand them easy answers on a silver platter.

    Since no one can know your intentions, some folks must enforce pushing you to read as well as ask questions.

    But asking questions is essential.

    In all honesty- going to a University is essential to learning about the stuff you're asking about.
    An internet forum isn't the place to get an education.
    But for a curious person whose interested in the topics- It's perfect for it.

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    So ask away. As long as you show that you are doing your 'homework' and not up to devious ploys

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

    most folks will be happy to show off the little knowledge they have.
     
  16. baptizo1403 Registered Senior Member

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    Ya I completely understand. I am, and always have been the type that just wants to find out the truth. And I find that most times the truth isnt quite what you i was expecting lol

    But often times I find that I just have too many deep seeded interests to attend university for all of them lol.
     
  17. Dywyddyr Penguinaciously duckalicious. Valued Senior Member

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    I'll second that, and add something else: I always used to tell any apprentices assigned to me to ASK - out loud, because asking someone else means you have to formulate the question in a way that can be understood by others (mainly because half the time when you keep looking for yourself you don't formulate the question properly, maybe unspoken assumptions or neglected factors) and when you ask in such a fashion you can sometimes see the answer for yourself - which does, admittedly, leave you feeling stupid for answering your own question as soon as you've asked. But that's better than being frustrated for hours.

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

     
  18. baptizo1403 Registered Senior Member

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    Ha ha!! True enough
     
  19. alephnull you can count on me Registered Senior Member

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    I agree with this post more than any other post I have seen on this forum (in my short time here)
     
  20. Neverfly Banned Banned

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    I thought you've been here longer than me...
    and I have four times as many posts?

    Oh hell-- I really need to get a life!
     
  21. alephnull you can count on me Registered Senior Member

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    Think of it this way, I never have anything interesting to say. I'm probably here more than my post count would indicate.
     

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