View Full Version : Stay the Course


hypewaders
10-29-03, 03:26 PM
According to you neocolonialists, we must stay the course in Iraq because it's the Right thing to do.

Please explain if you can.

kajolishot
10-29-03, 03:39 PM
We have already messed up by invading.

The last thing I would like to see is Iraqi peoples left without
any hope for the future.

I am not sure how the US presense would fix Iraq,
but I do know US evacuation of Iraq at this point would be catastrophic.

Bush knows that Iraq is on the verge of becoming the next "terrorist", "evil-doer" state and if he left now it will
come back to haunt us in another time in the future.

dsdsds
10-29-03, 04:11 PM
Simple. Pulling out now would be an acknowledgment and declaration of failure. This can never happen. What they need to do ASAP (and I would help them anyway possible) is to secretly plant, publicly find, and destroy some WMD. And find and kill a single person (we all know who). Then they can politicize their way out of Iraq and keep face.

hypewaders
10-29-03, 09:34 PM
I'm not sure I've lured any devoted neocolonialists yet, but I'll volley anyway.

dsdsds: "Pulling out now would be an acknowledgment and declaration of failure."

Why is it impossible to admit failure. It is in the National Interest to never admit, never declare a failure? Is it further in the National Interest to instead intensify failing initiatives?

The officially stated U.S. goals are now (and they wouldn't lie to us):

1. The best interests of the Iraqi People
2. Regional stability
3. Successfull counter-terrorism against those who would threaten the US and her allies.
4. Advancing principles of self-rule and democracy.

Let's put the continued US occupation of Iraq, as the present situation is defined by those on the receiving end, to the test on these issues so dear to the hearts of all Americans- After all, we Americans have always been concerned for Iraqi civil rights, right? It has always pained us when innocent Iraqis have been persecuted and killed in large numbers. So those participating here promoting Staying the Course, please explain how these goals will be approached through AMerican occupation.

Let's also put this occupation in context (http://www.geocities.com/pract_history/iraq.html) regarding previous foreign occupations of Iraq. They have parallel histories with ever-shorter half-lives.

"I do not understand this squeamishness about the use of gas. I am strongly in favour of using poison gas against uncivilised tribes." - Winston Churchill on Iraq, 1921

Kajolishot believes Americans must secretly plant, publicly find, and destroy some WMD. And find and kill Saddam. "Then they can politicize their way out of Iraq and keep face."

Why not just "politicize" our way out in such a way as to avoid an escalation of violence unseen in the region since the last colonialist wars?

"I do know US evacuation of Iraq at this point would be catastrophic."

This is a sweeping oversimplification, as Dunkirk redux is not required or even conceivable in this case. Alternatively, putting credible multinationality & this does not include Turkey) into practice would reduce the heat and stress considerably right now and in the immediate future. US troop withdrawals could be relieved by equivalent or greater international troop strengths, begining in a matter of weeks. Fewer Americans would die. Iraqi civil war might be avoided. Many thing$ would be less bad, especially on rigs and along pipelines.

Kajolishot: "Bush knows that Iraq is on the verge of becoming the next "terrorist", "evil-doer" state and if he left now it will
come back to haunt us in another time in the future."

Before scaring us with repeated hauntings, could you please explain how we were previously haunted by terrorists originating from or deriving support for Iraq?

What about Saudi Arabia: Directly connected through a dissenting element of the ruling class with 9-11, and wobbling badly in civil rights, civil order, and state stability aspects, and posessing the world's single most productive petroleum producer (Saudi ARAMCO). Saudis and non-anglo foreign nationals are routinely arrested without charge, tortured, and murdered by their government today. The Saudi arms inventory surpasses that of the Shah at the time of the uprising and theocratic revolution in Iran: There are far more WMDs, including AWACS, F-15, Stinger, Patriot, Blackhawk, Abrams, both from sales and cast-offs from the immense coldwar Rapid Deployment Force.

If Staying the Course were even a valid tactic, we're still occupying the wrong country, and this is going to bite us in the ass soon. Hang on.

kajolishot
10-29-03, 10:49 PM
Kajolishot believes Americans must secretly plant, publicly find, and destroy some WMD. And find and kill Saddam. "Then they can politicize their way out of Iraq and keep face."

No I don’t! dsdsds said that. But if any WMD were found at this stage,
I would conclude foul play in the discovery.
Bush’s father was a CIA director so anything is within his reach.

US troop withdrawals could be relieved by equivalent or greater international troop strengths, begining in a matter of weeks. Fewer Americans would die. Iraqi civil war might be avoided. Many thing$ would be less bad, especially on rigs and along pipelines.

That was one thing I left out of my statement. But the way the US has treated the International nations why would they want to help us out now? I do not think any nation will be willing to ‘help out’ the US as long as we are running the show there.
But remember, the UN has no standing army it gets volunteers from member nations under the guise of the UN banner. So American troops will be involved in such a situation.

And as we have seen repeated on the tele, Bush is not willing to give up control. I mean, after all, WE are the ones who invented democracy and WE are the only ones who know how to implement it!

Before scaring us with repeated hauntings, could you please explain how we were previously haunted by terrorists originating from or deriving support for Iraq?

Certainly. 9/11 was not something random. 9/11 was the response to US involvement in the middle east and foreign nations’ affairs of the last 10 years.
If nothing is done to fix the current situation, I fear that another 9/11 type of attack is forthcoming. It may not be for three or four years. But it will be coming.

If Staying the Course were even a valid tactic, we're still occupying the wrong country, and this is going to bite us in the ass soon. Hang on.

Exactly.

Mr. G
10-29-03, 10:54 PM
Stay the Course....According to you neocolonialists, we must stay the course in Iraq because it's the Right thing to do. Please explain if you can.
An open admission that the self-proclaimed Rational Class of the Left is as clueless as their opposing Rational Class of the Right.

Scary, if one actually thinks about it.