I was going to say a similar thing. Time will tell if our genes are really adapted to the environment. Modern life may just be a blip in the scheme of things, it is based on cheap fuel, which isn't going to last. Eventually, we may depend more on muscle power, and we won't drive everywhere.



OK..after Spiderman's stupid quote I will break this down to see if it is truly 100% of no scientific value (as if Spidey is really a scientist...something anyone can easily claim on the internet)

How can DNA be outdated? (Question)

DNA changes approximately 3,000,000 times per a second (SCIENTIFIC FACT- Spidey hasn't been doing his homework and I CAN quote the source of this fact!),

and the pattern it changes on has a momentum, like a car going a certain way that just can't stop. (This statement has scientific value because it could be right or wrong...and it most likely could be tested and proved)

What is outdated here is the idea that DNA is outdated. (This is an assertion, and it is true it is of lesser value)

DNA changes for many reasons, (Again, Spidey is mumbling!...THIS IS FACT FACT FACT!!!)

it changes direction as we change and challenge our habits and it is influenced by intergalactic electromagnetic energy waves (Light, radiation, call it what you want) as well. (THIS IS FACT FACT FACT- Spidergoat, please go and do your homework and quit ranting on about things you know barely anything about)

DNA is UNTAPPED to its FULL POTENTIAL! TAP THAT ALL THE WAY AND YOU ARE GOD! (THIS IS AN ASSERTION OF LESSER VALUE...and what I mean by it is we can do great things...we have the potential for it...ignore spidergoat...he is clueless when it comes to assessing value!)

Please ignore the below post, which is bigoted and worthless!


Moderator Note:
This thread is split from the original discussion Our DNA is out-dated (http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?t=79253)

Please ignore the above post, which contains no scientific value.

Oh yes...I almost forgot to mention that Spidergoat is a priest of the Science and thinks he knows everything there is to know.

Way to go spidy! You tell them how it isn't!!! That DNA is...is...garbage!!!

Oh yes...I almost forgot to mention that Spidergoat is a priest of the Science and thinks he knows everything there is to know.

Way to go spidy! You tell them how it isn't!!! That DNA is...is...garbage!!!

I know if you decode your DNA and then do it again a year later, it's the same.

I know if you decode your DNA and then do it again a year later, it's the same.

What are you talking about??? This is nonsense!!! DNA changes 3,000,000 times per a second and that is a scientific fact I learned by reading the work of a PhD in Biophysics! Where is your PhD in Biophysics Spidergoat?

I only mention this, because I have studied Science from the Scientist who write books about science, so I learn from them!

If the DNA is changing, how can it be outdated. It would have to stay the same, like some think they know when they don't. It changes every single second, in fact since this thread began your DNA, my DNA, and everyone else's DNA has changed over hundred trillion times already by now. That isn't out-dating, its UPDATING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If the DNA is changing, how can it be outdated. It would have to stay the same, like some think they know when they don't. It changes every single second, in fact since this thread began your DNA, my DNA, and everyone else's DNA has changed over hundred trillion times already by now. That isn't out-dating, its UPDATING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Just out of interest here, I don't exactly know a great deal about DNA, but when you say that it is changing every single second what do you actually mean?

What are you talking about??? This is nonsense!!! DNA changes 3,000,000 times per a second and that is a scientific fact I learned by reading the work of a PhD in Biophysics! Where is your PhD in Biophysics Spidergoat?

What type of change are you referring to? A mutation? Mutations happen ~1/10e7 per replication iirc. Can't remember the rate of replication, so I can't check your number, but I don't think it is right.

In any case, it doesn't have to do with the function that our DNA controls, that is not changing in a significant manner (for this conversation). E.g., one number I remember is the number of unique ways your DNA can be arranged from your parents DNA is 2e46. Out of all the 2e46 ways DNA could have been arranged, the majority of them wouldn't change the idea that some of our DNA is no longer as suited for our environment as before. It is true for most of the (7e9)(2e46) possible unique variations of the human population.

That isn't out-dating, its UPDATING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It isn't!

Just out of interest here, I don't exactly know a great deal about DNA, but when you say that it is changing every single second what do you actually mean?

I mean it is changing its shape and its configuration. DNA is held together be water molecules, roughly a few hundred per a strand. Without those molecules it doesn't have a bond strong enough to held itself together and simply separates.

Not only are the molecules of DNA part of a structure that is surrounded by water molecules that attach themselves and add strength to the bond; the shape of the bond, number of molecules held fest, and the shape of the strand itself all change from one shape and configuration structure to another each and every second at approximately 3,000,000 times...losing and gaining water molecules in the process. Not only that, waves of sound transmissions, light transmissions, and thermal transmissions, as well as several other kinds (such as pressure), are interacting and changing the rythym of the DNA...DNA has a Rythym and makes a sound.

Spidergoat can't possibly decode the DNA over a year period an get the same CODE, the CODE is bifurcating in such a way that it is impossible to back track and decode without losing some of the original content, as it bifurcates into random patterns that impossible to follow backwards without going the wrong way sooner or later. Obviously there are people here who have never bothered to read or study the FACTS about modern Biophysic! Its fun stuff, truly fascinating, rewarding, and worth studying!

Someone better tell the feds that.. :rolleyes:

What type of change are you referring to? A mutation? Mutations happen ~1/10e7 per replication iirc. Can't remember the rate of replication, so I can't check your number, but I don't think it is right.

In any case, it doesn't have to do with the function that our DNA controls, that is not changing in a significant manner (for this conversation). E.g., one number I remember is the number of unique ways your DNA can be arranged from your parents DNA is 2e46. Out of all the 2e46 ways DNA could have been arranged, the majority of them wouldn't change the idea that some of our DNA is no longer as suited for our environment as before. It is true for most of the (7e9)(2e46) possible unique variations of the human population.



It isn't!

I am going to dig a little, I already wrote a little, quoting the prodigy of the one of the world's leading scientist on this subject. You are wrong...DNA does not out-date...it updates!

Then again...maybe your are half right and your DNA is outdated because you believe this and so it replicates your belief while MY DNA IS UPDATING. I NEVER GET SICK...do you?

Err...my DNA also likes to date...;)

I am going to dig up some info now...

Not only are the molecules of DNA part of a structure that is surrounded by water molecules that attach themselves and add strength to the bond; the shape of the bond, number of molecules held fest, and the shape of the strand itself all change from one shape and configuration structure to another each and every second at approximately 3,000,000 times...losing and gaining water molecules in the process. Not only that, waves of sound transmissions, light transmissions, and thermal transmissions, as well as several other kinds (such as pressure), are interacting and changing the rythym of the DNA...DNA has a Rythym and makes a sound.

Those changes you refer to do not change the sequence of base pairs that make up the code. The thing you mentioned about surrounding molecules changing DNA shape do effect the gene expression (though water is not a critical component in this). But still, that would not change the basis of the idea of this thread, that some gene functions were helpful in the past, but can be problems now.


Spidergoat can't possibly decode the DNA over a year period an get the same CODE

He can, and a lot of things depend on that. Try http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/gene_library


, the CODE is bifurcating in such a way that it is impossible to back track and decode without losing some of the original content, as it bifurcates into random patterns that impossible to follow backwards without going the wrong way sooner or later. Obviously there are people here who have never bothered to read or study the FACTS about modern Biophysic! Ifs fun stuff, truly fascinating, rewarding, and worth studying!

It would be helpful if you cited or quoted your sources.

I am going to dig a little, I already wrote a little, quoting the prodigy of the one of the world's leading scientist on this subject. You are wrong...DNA does not out-dating...it updates!


Maybe this is just an issue of word usage.

Would you call running a photocopy of a document an "update"? Or if when you photocopied it, there were a few, insubstantial errors? I wouldn't.

I mean it is changing its shape and its configuration. DNA is held together be water molecules, roughly a few hundred per a strand. Without those molecules it doesn't have a bond strong enough to held itself together and simply separates.

Not only are the molecules of DNA part of a structure that is surrounded by water molecules that attach themselves and add strength to the bond; the shape of the bond, number of molecules held fest, and the shape of the strand itself all change from one shape and configuration structure to another each and every second at approximately 3,000,000 times...losing and gaining water molecules in the process. Not only that, waves of sound transmissions, light transmissions, and thermal transmissions, as well as several other kinds (such as pressure), are interacting and changing the rythym of the DNA...DNA has a Rythym and makes a sound.

Spidergoat can't possibly decode the DNA over a year period an get the same CODE, the CODE is bifurcating in such a way that it is impossible to back track and decode without losing some of the original content, as it bifurcates into random patterns that impossible to follow backwards without going the wrong way sooner or later. Obviously there are people here who have never bothered to read or study the FACTS about modern Biophysic! Ifs fun stuff, truly fascinating, rewarding, and worth studying!


Ah thanks, that seems to make sense, I have more of an idea of what you were talking about before now and I can't help but think some people are maybe talking about DNA when they mean something else. I should look up DNA first anyway.

I'll do that in a wee bit...

but first I would like to comment that tools of measurement can only measure limited units of information, and only so much more can be derived by logical deduction before you hit a wall. Decoding the code won't reveal the ENTIRE CODE, only a limited amount. Science is dead if it thinks it has pinned this down ENTIRELY! If it admits that it hasn't, it has the humble Mind for growing and more knowing (it won't go any further if it thinks it has gone all the way).

Now for those sources...

Maybe this is just an issue of word usage.

Would you call running a photocopy of a document an "update"? Or if when you photocopied it, there were a few, insubstantial errors? I wouldn't.

Interesting point!
I will ponder that while I get a quick snack and then reply when a clear answer comes to my mind!

I'll do that in a wee bit...

but first I would like to comment that tools of measurement can only measure limited units of information, and only so much more can be derived by logical deduction before you hit a wall. Decoding the code won't reveal the ENTIRE CODE, only a limited amount. Science is dead if it thinks it has pinned this down ENTIRELY! If it admits that it hasn't, it has the humble Mind for growing and more knowing (it won't go any further if it thinks it has gone all the way).

Now for those sources...

Most people refer to the code as the sequence of base pairs, in which case we can decode it. Though it is a bit of a large task with humans. But if you mean decoding in the sense of complete (not just conceptual) understanding what our DNA is doing, than Craig Venter will agree with you, for what his opinion is worth.

I started a thread with this, but there is more...so I'll go find it...

"I wrote this into the topic of another thread and thought it was so interesting it should get a thread of its own!!!

It starts like this:

For over 15 years I have been aware that DNA mutates and changes over time. This awareness became clearer as time passed by. This morning I was reading a fascinating book on the bus on the way to work (I prefer the bus...I get to read then, whereas if I drive I don't). The book is named:
Energy Medicine in Therapeutics and Human Performance, by James Oschman...PhD.

It gives incredible information regarding the most up-to-date discoveries and current theories in Biochemistry, Biology, and Living Systems. Of particular interest is the coverage of the Living Matrix. I believe the book will be very helpful later on when I have the time to formulate a theory regarding the physical process involved with working with the Mind Portal.

I discovered this morning how fast the DNA changes...3,000,000 times per a second!!! I finally know know how fast the DNA is mutating at a minimum. I say minimum, because between each change the amount of change may vary, one bit of change might be very little compared to the next. If my math is correct this means there are 259,200,000,000 DNA changes in a single day.



The book also goes further (much further, revealing many incredible things!!!), in science there is the law of entropy, many scientist don't like to compare this law to the Synergetics of the Living Matrix, which is the opposite, rather then being a system that breaks down, it is a system the perfects its self!!! This is called Syntropy!!!

I will quote the book a little on this:
"Shang (1989) compared acupuncture points with developmental organizing centers and singular points. A singular point is a place where a very small change in one parameter will cause a huge change in another. In the past, such phase transitions in living systems were examined by a combination of thermodynamic, general systems, and information theories, but these approaches proved inadequate. One reason is that biological systems frequently show phase transitions that achieve something that many scientist have been reluctant to accept. Living systems simply do not obey the second law of thermodynamics. They are syntropic (Szent-Gyorgyi 1974) rather than entropic, and they have the tendency to perfect themselves. They might even be called purposeful (Haken 1973).
An important discovery arising from the study of cooperative phenomena is that giant coherent oscillations can be set up in individual macromolecules. We will discuss this further when we consider energy flow in the living system."

Food for thought!

With my Kindest Regards,
Jozen-Bo"

I started a thread with this, but there is more...so I'll go find it...

"I wrote this into the topic of another thread and thought it was so interesting it should get a thread of its own!!!

It starts like this:

For over 15 years I have been aware that DNA mutates and changes over time. This awareness became clearer as time passed by. This morning I was reading a fascinating book on the bus on the way to work (I prefer the bus...I get to read then, whereas if I drive I don't). The book is named:
Energy Medicine in Therapeutics and Human Performance, by James Oschman...PhD.

It gives incredible information regarding the most up-to-date discoveries and current theories in Biochemistry, Biology, and Living Systems. Of particular interest is the coverage of the Living Matrix. I believe the book will be very helpful later on when I have the time to formulate a theory regarding the physical process involved with working with the Mind Portal.

I discovered this morning how fast the DNA changes...3,000,000 times per a second!!! I finally know know how fast the DNA is mutating at a minimum. I say minimum, because between each change the amount of change may vary, one bit of change might be very little compared to the next. If my math is correct this means there are 259,200,000,000 DNA changes in a single day.



The book also goes further (much further, revealing many incredible things!!!), in science there is the law of entropy, many scientist don't like to compare this law to the Synergetics of the Living Matrix, which is the opposite, rather then being a system that breaks down, it is a system the perfects its self!!! This is called Syntropy!!!

I will quote the book a little on this:
"Shang (1989) compared acupuncture points with developmental organizing centers and singular points. A singular point is a place where a very small change in one parameter will cause a huge change in another. In the past, such phase transitions in living systems were examined by a combination of thermodynamic, general systems, and information theories, but these approaches proved inadequate. One reason is that biological systems frequently show phase transitions that achieve something that many scientist have been reluctant to accept. Living systems simply do not obey the second law of thermodynamics. They are syntropic (Szent-Gyorgyi 1974) rather than entropic, and they have the tendency to perfect themselves. They might even be called purposeful (Haken 1973).
An important discovery arising from the study of cooperative phenomena is that giant coherent oscillations can be set up in individual macromolecules. We will discuss this further when we consider energy flow in the living system."

Food for thought!

With my Kindest Regards,
Jozen-Bo"

I'm sorry but that is just complete bullshit.. :shrug:

I started a thread with this, but there is more...so I'll go find it...

"I wrote this into the topic of another thread and thought it was so interesting it should get a thread of its own!!!

It starts like this:

For over 15 years I have been aware that DNA mutates and changes over time. This awareness became clearer as time passed by. This morning I was reading a fascinating book on the bus on the way to work (I prefer the bus...I get to read then, whereas if I drive I don't). The book is named:
Energy Medicine in Therapeutics and Human Performance, by James Oschman...PhD.

That DNA mutates and changes over time is accepted, but these changes are small. In almost all organisms, however, DNA is renowned for keeping changes minimal.

The majority of mutational changes are not noticeable. This can be because they are a single base pair change, which more often than not, will code for the same amino acid, and produce no functional change. Other times it will code for a different amino acid, which may or may not change the function of a protein, and if it does change it does not always lead to a detectable change. Changes that do end up being significant are almost always bad changes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/deleterious_mutations).

The time it takes cancer to develop in humans should give an idea of how long it can sometimes take for DNA changes to account for a noticeable change (humans not exposing themselves to above average levels of mutagens).

I discovered this morning how fast the DNA changes...3,000,000 times per a second!!! I finally know know how fast the DNA is mutating at a minimum. I say minimum, because between each change the amount of change may vary, one bit of change might be very little compared to the next. If my math is correct this means there are 259,200,000,000 DNA changes in a single day.

The changes that you previously mentioned are mostly not lasting changes. Physical perturbations will come and go. It might make a very short term change in DNA, but for the most part it will not alter the function in systems.
So those things are not real changes.


I will quote the book a little on this:
[I]"Shang (1989) compared acupuncture points with developmental organizing centers and singular points. A singular point is a place where a very small change in one parameter will cause a huge change in another. In the past, such phase transitions in living systems were examined by a combination of thermodynamic, general systems, and information theories, but these approaches proved inadequate. One reason is that biological systems frequently show phase transitions that achieve something that many scientist have been reluctant to accept. Living systems simply do not obey the second law of thermodynamics. They are syntropic (Szent-Gyorgyi 1974) rather than entropic, and they have the tendency to perfect themselves. They might even be called purposeful (Haken 1973).


The second law of thermodynamics is, and always will be obeyed. Anyone telling you differently should be avoided.

I'm sorry but that is just complete bullshit.. :shrug:

Wow are we ever slow?
What qualifications do you have?
Do you know who George Oschman is?
Someone who is FAR, FAR, FAR more qualified then you!
Its easy to write a 1 liner to put down a entire life's work of research and study, but its not easy to spend a life working and researching as Oschman has done. I can no longer trust your opinion, as you comment reveals how thoughtless you are. How shocking! Enmos.....wake up!!!

OK...I will except that there are those like Enmos whose DNA is out-dated. But mine isn't! And your statement is the biggest pile of crap I have read in a long, long time. There are still those here who compose themselves with intelligence, but I am starting to wonder about you, you have no regard for science based on this statement...no reason to claim your awareness on it if you slander PhD Scientists who put a life time of hard work into their result...I thought spidergoat posts nonsense, but you take the trophy!

Let me return you words to you:
I'm sorry but that is (the reply of enmos) just complete bullshit..

As to the follow-up information, I am going to need more time to find it as I forgot where I left it...but it is there...and if I need to I can simply get the book out and quote it again.

After reading your garbage I grow tired!

I am going to get some sleep now!

Laa Laaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

Oh...wait...I am not the fat lady! But I am going to simply re-quote...I am getting the book now...

Here...I found it!


"Using the largest and fastest IBM computers available at the time, Clementi created virtual models of one turn of the DNA helix within the computer. In these models, the atoms comprising a molecule move about under the influence of their own kinetic energy and the forces exerted on them by surrounding ions and water. With this molecular dynamic approach, the model never converges on a single conformation. Instead, the molecular model in the computer continuously changes and moves about in space. The various atoms within the molecule are visualized as clouds of electrons that are readily polarized by electric fields of nearby water and ions. The DNA structure changes 3,000,000 times per a second."
-James Oschman, PhD
Energy Medicine in Therapeutics and Human Performance

:D:D:D

Jozen-Bo,

Just because someone may be more qualified or more knowledgeable in a subject over another person does not mean they are right, they could be completely wrong and the ignorant person could be right. The qualities of the argument provided means nothing, rather it is the qualities of the argument its self.

Here...I found it!


"Using the largest and fastest IBM computers available at the time, Clementi created virtual models of one turn of the DNA helix within the computer. In these models, the atoms comprising a molecule move about under the influence of their own kinetic energy and the forces exerted on them by surrounding ions and water. With this molecular dynamic approach, the model never converges on a single conformation. Instead, the molecular model in the computer continuously changes and moves about in space. The various atoms within the molecule are visualized as clouds of electrons that are readily polarized by electric fields of nearby water and ions. The DNA structure changes 3,000,000 times per a second."
-James Oschman, PhD
Energy Medicine in Therapeutics and Human Performance

:D:D:D

These "changes" will not amount to a change in DNA functionality. It is natural that DNA will be constantly perturbed by random molecular forces, but to no net effect.

Jozen-Bo,

Just because someone may be more qualified or more knowledgeable in a subject over another person does not mean they are right, they could be completely wrong and the ignorant person could be right. The qualities of the argument provided means nothing, rather it is the qualities of the argument its self.

:confused:
You obviously don't know who George Oschman is either! Much of the information is built on FACT! Not guess work. The 3,000,000 changes per a second...FACT! Not guess work!

These "changes" will not amount to a change in DNA functionality. It is natural that DNA will be constantly perturbed by random molecular forces, but to no net effect.

I cannot agree with this, no matter how hard I try! If you change anything you change everything...this is basic logic. The functions themselves are changing 3,000,000 times per a second. That is some very fast updating. Off course, if One's life force is low and they are easily mislead, then these changes could be degrading instead of self perfecting. I do not intend to be mislead into accepting this, as the cells follow the Mind! If you don't believe in yourself...how do you WIN? If you don't believe in your cells and health, you are prone to getting sick easier...this has been proven! Our thoughts and feelings play a major role in our health and well being! Why do you make changes as "changes"? These are real changes and that is period!

.

It should be noted that if DNA was peptidyl instead of phosphate link and if DNA was quadruple helix instead of doubled then the rate of mutation and thus the rate of evolution would be seriously hindered. DNA is perfect for life on earth, if it was to unstable life would mutate too fast to survive, it it was too stable life would not be able to adapt fast enough.

This sounds philosophical, but in essence I agree!

The functions themselves are changing 3,000,000 times per a second.

What changes in functionality have you seen?

Here...I found it!


"Using the largest and fastest IBM computers available at the time, Clementi created virtual models of one turn of the DNA helix within the computer. In these models, the atoms comprising a molecule move about under the influence of their own kinetic energy and the forces exerted on them by surrounding ions and water. With this molecular dynamic approach, the model never converges on a single conformation. Instead, the molecular model in the computer continuously changes and moves about in space. The various atoms within the molecule are visualized as clouds of electrons that are readily polarized by electric fields of nearby water and ions. The DNA structure changes 3,000,000 times per a second."
-James Oschman, PhD
Energy Medicine in Therapeutics and Human Performance

:D:D:D

Argh ! ANY molecule moves in that way.

DNA has a large reserve capacity for repair, which is mediated by endonuclease repair enzymes. Much of DNA damage is cumulative and reflects the balance between aging and health, ie they become more visible with age, since evolutionarily, keeping the organism alive has priority over keeping him healthy for as long as he lives.

Which is why we are seeing a greater preponderance of age related chronic diseases today, many of which reflect the accumulated damage of a lifetime and not a spontaneous change in the functionality of the organism's DNA.

...computational biology work ...has shown how human repair enzymes recognize a common form of DNA damage called an abasic lesion. These lesions occur when a stretch of DNA loses one of its constituent bases, leaving a gap in the chain. Such lesions arise spontaneously more than 10,000 times per day in every cell. They can also be caused by exposure to pesticides, food mutagens, and ionizing radiation from the sun. If unrepaired, the damage can lead to disease, notably cancer, through a mutation in the genetic code.

Cells have a set of repair enzymes (proteins) that scan DNA looking for damage such as abasic lesions. In humans, the major enzyme responsible for repairing abasic DNA is the endonuclease Ape1. Livermore scientists (https://www.llnl.gov/str/April01/Colvin.html)have been addressing the question of how repair proteins such as Ape1 recognize and bind specifically to damaged DNA.

From what I have learned, damage releases waves of signals that tell the cells to regenerate. Without small amounts of damage, the system will break down faster, and with too much damage, the system won't be able to keep up with the repair work. Moderated damage is one of the means by which DNA updates itself!

From what I have learned, damage releases waves of signals that tell the cells to regenerate. Without small amounts of damage, the system will break down faster, and with too much damage, the system won't be able to keep up with the repair work. Moderated damage is one of the means by which DNA updates itself!

Cancer?

What changes in functionality have you seen?

These changes are too minute to observe from one second to the next! Over time they can be seen very easily. I will give a number of example!!!

Weight trainers who regularly damage their muscle cells regenerate powerful forms. This is change of function as it is increased beyond what it was prior.

A student who studies day and night. The brain is stressed out, the cells are damaged (thus the head ache of too much heavy study). Over time the student becomes a professor!

The yogas who do amazing things didn't start out that way, they developed their abilities consciously over time...their cells changing and gaining new functions.

If we take 1/3,000,000 of a change and look for obvious results we have a difficult task at hand. If we take 30,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 ,000,000,000,000/3,000,000
the results will be more obvious!

The functions change in a number of ways over time. From increasing capacity to gaining new abilities outright. When the Mind changes as it learns, it gains many new functions for thinking. We are talking about a collection of cells...which include memories, which are found in the DNA!

I personally have noted that my eyes have periodically gained the function to see in total black after damaging them in modest amounts using certain techniques which should be obvious to the older members here. No, I don't control this, but when the function is active, it is functioning. I wasn't always like this. One who masters Yoga and can display many functions not previously possible (thus not a function) also demonstrates this.

Argh ! ANY molecule moves in that way.

Then reality itself is updating itself!

Jozen-Bo,
you specially bought that book so you could quote something that would indicate that DNA changes (mutates, as you refer to it yourself) 3,000,000 times a second.
Now you show us a quote that says that DNA vibrates 3M times a second.. :shrug:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Degrees_of_freedom_%28physics_and_chemistry%29


Here...I found it!


"Using the largest and fastest IBM computers available at the time, Clementi created virtual models of one turn of the DNA helix within the computer. In these models, the atoms comprising a molecule move about under the influence of their own kinetic energy and the forces exerted on them by surrounding ions and water. With this molecular dynamic approach, the model never converges on a single conformation. Instead, the molecular model in the computer continuously changes and moves about in space. The various atoms within the molecule are visualized as clouds of electrons that are readily polarized by electric fields of nearby water and ions. The DNA structure changes 3,000,000 times per a second."
-James Oschman, PhD
Energy Medicine in Therapeutics and Human Performance

Then reality itself is updating itself!

Are you serious ?

Its like... my body is so evil! Why does it make me want things that are bad for it.

to test your power of will. this life is not about the body, it is about you exerting your own will power on events against the flow of this world.

Cancer?

Cancer is not damage. It is when the equilibrial wave within the cell is off balance and the signal that tells the cell what to do doesn't tell it the right info. Instead of saying stay, the signal says duplicate. The cell duplicates into more cells that resemble the original cell. As they gather, the signal from the cluster gets louder and other cells risk danger of losing their equilibrium balance as they synchronize with the bad signal more and more. Then their waves start emitting duplication signals and the cancer spreads from one organ to another, eventually killing the host if it is not treated. Cancer is based in waves, that is where we will find the cure. Understand the waves of our Living Matrix and curing cancer will be easy.

In a healthy system, one that believes in itself and is filled with inner waves of communication and awareness is far more immune to cancer. The cancer cells know they are screwed up and commit cellular suicide before duplicating. As they die they release a blast of radiation that spreads through the system and informs the other cells on a level of patterned information (helping them to prepare against future threat). Our body must constantly communicate with itself in order to survive even one day. Shut down the communication and we die quickly as cancer or disease or injury or degrading takes over.

Are you serious ?

In a relative sense of the word yes! Take that away and no! It would appear that the function of everything is changing from one second to the next, as time itself takes toll. But, the difference is that our DNA does it with more purpose then..say a rock. We are changing into more intelligent forms inwardly. Well...not everyone...those who are lazy will degrade, those who work will reap the benefits of their actions.

Are you lazy?

Is this the philosophical view of the molecular biology of cancer?

Jozen-Bo,
you specially bought that book so you could quote something that would indicate that DNA changes (mutates, as you refer to it yourself) 3,000,000 times a second.
Now you show us a quote that says that DNA vibrates 3M times a second.. :shrug:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Degrees_of_freedom_%28physics_and_chemistry%29

Enmos,
that is hearsay. I had the book and could of quoted it a long time ago. If you...no...I will simply give you the link that shows me quoting the same book long before this thread ever begin (Please note the date)! I just didn't feel like getting it out and retyping the same stuff that I already typed, when all I had to do is copy and paste what I already did!

http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?t=77233&highlight=Jozen-Bo

Eat that!

And...your link, what is the point of it?

In a relative sense of the word yes! Take that away and no! It would appear that the function of everything is changing from one second to the next, as time itself takes toll. But, the difference is that our DNA does it with more purpose then..say a rock. We are changing into more intelligent forms inwardly. Well...not everyone...those who are lazy will degrade, those who work will reap the benefits of their actions.

Are you lazy?

So you are saying that the molecules of a rock are constantly updating themselves to prevent damage ? LOL

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermodynamic_temperature#Overview

to test your power of will. this life is not about the body, it is about you exerting your own will power on events against the flow of this world.

Draqon...you kick arse!

So you are saying that the molecules of a rock are constantly updating themselves to prevent damage ? LOL

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermodynamic_temperature#Overview

No. I am saying they are updating their position as time flows. Eventually all of their molecules will degrade into nothing itself. But until that happens there are changes within the rock that are defining it from one second to the next. But lets not digress into talking about rocks...please!

And what is the purpose of this link as well as your last. Could you at the least explain your reason for providing a link before doing so?

No. I am saying they are updating their position as time flows. Eventually all of their molecules will degrade into nothing itself. But until that happens there are changes within the rock that are defining it from one second to the next. But lets not digress into talking about rocks...please!

And what is the purpose of this link as well as your last. Could you at the least explain your reason for providing a link before doing so?

Ok, maybe I misunderstood. What exactly do you mean by 'they are updating their position as time flows' ?
The way I see it you are just saying that molecules vibrate because of their kinetic energy and are constantly changing their configuration in three dimensional space as a result.

Is this the philosophical view of the molecular biology of cancer?

Let's see?

Cancer is not damage.
I am pretty sure this is fact.

It is when the equilibrium wave within the cell is off balance and the signal that tells the cell what to do doesn't tell it the right info.
Known fact!

Instead of saying stay, the signal says duplicate.
Known fact!

The cell duplicates into more cells that resemble the original cell.
Known fact!

As they gather, the signal from the cluster gets louder and other cells risk danger of losing their equilibrium balance as they synchronize with the bad signal more and more.
Known fact!

Then their waves start emitting duplication signals and the cancer spreads from one organ to another, eventually killing the host if it is not treated.
Known fact!

Cancer is based in waves, that is where we will find the cure. Understand the waves of our Living Matrix and curing cancer will be easy.
Not known enough, but fact!

In a healthy system, one that believes in itself and is filled with inner waves of communication and awareness is far more immune to cancer. The cancer cells know they are screwed up and commit cellular suicide before duplicating. As they die they release a blast of radiation that spreads through the system and informs the other cells on a level of patterned information (helping them to prepare against future threat). Our body must constantly communicate with itself in order to survive even one day. Shut down the communication and we die quickly as cancer or disease or injury or degrading takes over.
There is lots of studies that verify this. I gathered this from studying on a DR. (I forgot the name) who was the leading doctor of the Olympics for a long time, he discusses how cancer is rooted in waves of information gone wrong. As well, I have read about this many times in many places that were scientific and not philosophical, though the two do have strong influence on each other.

Ok, maybe I misunderstood. What exactly do you mean by 'they are updating their position as time flows' ?
The way I see it you are just saying that molecules vibrate because of their kinetic energy and are constantly changing their configuration in three dimensional space as a result.

:shrug:
Are we particles or are we waves?

:shrug:
Are we particles or are we waves?

Of what relevance is that ?
Particles.
Is what I said in my previous post what you meant ?

Matter is both particle and wave. As it moves in a flow it is wave. In any giving instant it is particle. In one second of time there are some approximate 17^43 number of static time positions. That is, a single second is made of this many frozen pictures that also contains both frozen partial waves and frozen particles.

Ok, maybe I misunderstood. What exactly do you mean by 'they are updating their position as time flows' ?
The way I see it you are just saying that molecules vibrate because of their kinetic energy and are constantly changing their configuration in three dimensional space as a result.

Ok...to answer this a little more, their position isn't really "updating", it is simply changing. Yes, molecules vibrate because of their kinetic energy and are constantly changing their configurations in the 26 Inter-Dimensional relative Universe. In the actual Dimensional universe, nothing ever changes. But this is another subject...the dimension subject. So, I guess I could say that the comment I quoted here that you said is correct.

Let's see?

Cancer is not damage.
I am pretty sure this is fact.

It is when the equilibrium wave within the cell is off balance and the signal that tells the cell what to do doesn't tell it the right info.
Known fact!

Instead of saying stay, the signal says duplicate.
Known fact!

The cell duplicates into more cells that resemble the original cell.
Known fact!

As they gather, the signal from the cluster gets louder and other cells risk danger of losing their equilibrium balance as they synchronize with the bad signal more and more.
Known fact!

Then their waves start emitting duplication signals and the cancer spreads from one organ to another, eventually killing the host if it is not treated.
Known fact!

Cancer is based in waves, that is where we will find the cure. Understand the waves of our Living Matrix and curing cancer will be easy.
Not known enough, but fact!

In a healthy system, one that believes in itself and is filled with inner waves of communication and awareness is far more immune to cancer. The cancer cells know they are screwed up and commit cellular suicide before duplicating. As they die they release a blast of radiation that spreads through the system and informs the other cells on a level of patterned information (helping them to prepare against future threat). Our body must constantly communicate with itself in order to survive even one day. Shut down the communication and we die quickly as cancer or disease or injury or degrading takes over.
There is lots of studies that verify this. I gathered this from studying on a DR. (I forgot the name) who was the leading doctor of the Olympics for a long time, he discusses how cancer is rooted in waves of information gone wrong. As well, I have read about this many times in many places that were scientific and not philosophical, though the two do have strong influence on each other.

Cancer cells are damaged. Programmed cell death is affected so they won't die when they are damaged beyond repair.

Matter is both particle and wave. As it moves in a flow it is wave. In any giving instant it is particle. In one second of time there are some approximate 17^43 number of static time positions. That is, a single second is made of this many frozen pictures that also contains both frozen partial waves and frozen particles.

Evidence ?
Even if it's true I don't see
1) how we can know this for a fact;
2) of what importance it is to the subject.

Ok...to answer this a little more, their position isn't really "updating", it is simply changing. Yes, molecules vibrate because of their kinetic energy and are constantly changing their configurations in the 26 Inter-Dimensional relative Universe. In the actual Dimensional universe, nothing ever changes. But this is another subject...the dimension subject. So, I guess I could say that the comment I quoted here that you said is correct.

Ok, then how do your statements about DNA changing 3M times per second have any bearing on the OP ?

It would take me forever to find the evidence, talk about a lot of digging. I learned this nearly 10 years ago. And...I agree this is not important to the subject, though you asked about the positioning changing, and as matter displays the attributes of both particle and wave (which is pretty much common knowledge these days), I was trying to answer.

DNA can either update itself or get outdated if the life form in question is lazy and careless or working and careful. Its a matter of choice and effort.

DNA can either update itself or get outdated if the life form in question is lazy and careless or working and careful. Its a matter of choice and effort.

Do you mean to imply that an individual in itself can evolve ?
Sounds a bit Lamarckian if you ask me..

Ok, then how do your statements about DNA changing 3M times per second have any bearing on the OP ?

Where do we store memories?
DNA!

Did you know what you know now before you where born?
No!

How where the memories stored?
Because as they changed 3,000,000 times per a second your study and learning influenced and affected the way they changed.

If you never bothered to learn how to read and write, how could you have this memory in your DNA, mainly that of the brain cells?
You couldn't!

We can change our functions by changing the way we think and perceive, which happens when we observe carefully, learn, and realize knowledge.

Where do we store memories?
DNA!
WTF!? What about your brain ?

Did you know what you know now before you where born?
No!

How where the memories stored?
Because as they changed 3,000,000 times per a second your study and learning influenced and affected the way they changed.

If you never bothered to learn how to read and write, how could you have this memory in your DNA, mainly that of the brain cells?
You couldn't!

We can change our functions by changing the way we think and perceive, which happens when we observe carefully, learn, and realize knowledge.
Again.. wtf ?

Do you mean to imply that an individual in itself can evolve ?
Sounds a bit Lamarckian if you ask me..

Have you ever did any weight training, really heavy study, or practice of martial arts?

I have and I kick arse!
My reflects are trained, fast and direct.
REFLEXES!
TRAINED!
I evolved from being a scrawny can't defend himself guy to someone who can communicate danger with a glare, and back it up if need be. We can change for the better (evolve) or for the worse (degrade), its that simple.
Example:

Sticking herion needles up the but and getting high all the time=degrading!

Study, exertion, and constant effort to a goal that exceeds one's current limits=evolving!

You are a Lamarckian. Quite rare in this day and age.. or so I hope.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lamarckism

WTF!? What about your brain ?


Again.. wtf ?

WTF is not much of a point!
WTF!
WTF!
WTF!
WTF!
WTF!

The brain is filled with brain cells, which have DNA in it, and as electric pulses of information spurt about in well formed dendrite paths, these memories are activated by the electric stimuli.

You are a Lamarckian. Quite rare in this day and age.. or so I hope.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lamarckism

I said TRAIN...NOT inheritance gained from the efforts of one's parents!

TRAINED...as in by your own effort.

Inheritance...as in by the effort of your parents.

See the difference?

Wow...this thread has been renamed (as that of my theories), I must see if this shows up in the lists...?

And if it does, does anyone have any questions?

It's a split. Your 'theories' have been removed from the original thread because it was trolling ;)

In first post:

Moderator Note:
This thread is split from the original discussion Our DNA is out-dated (http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?t=79253)

Gee wiz...where do humans come from? It couldn't have anything to do with changing DNA, could it? No...its cleary adam and eve, and that our DNA has never changed at all (please note my sarcasm). DNA changes, it changes function, it mutates into slight variants even within the life time of a single second, and these changes are evident over thousands of years beyond question. I might one day put together a real theory, if I ever find time- but I need to spend it wisely at this phase of my life, and perfecting a theory on DNA does not fall under the category of my priorities.

My hypothesis is this, our DNA contains the pattern of all creation within it, and is part of how that pattern unfolds in the Illusion of time. This pattern is found within anything, even a speck with no DNA contains it, but the difference is that our DNA is more developed to process and form into higher living structures then a speck of dust. Life is every where, and it is no mistake that spirals are at the foundation of life and seen within the DNA itself. Our DNA is self perfecting, it is syntropic. However, it is capable of degrading as well, a poor spiritual condition will bring about a poor changing in the DNA structure and function. Patterns change, if one struggles to have a good spirit then their DNA will change for the better. It involves choice.

There is much more to this, I haven't really discussed my theory here and yet, I see images and models in my mind, eventually I might do something with them. I can say this in concluding this for now, we know very little about DNA, despite claims by many who think they know so much. We can't say we understand the DNA fully until and unless we can say we understand a single particle fully, since the DNA is composed of particles. I might add a little here and there, but I am in no hurry. If anyone does read this, consider how spirals appear through out nature, they are the most fundamental of shapes, nothing exists that doesn't owe its existence and basic manifestation to this shape.

I put the name so you could find it. If you like I can remove it. Its philosophically an interesting discussion, but unfortunately, its not suitable for biology.

How did you come about this hypothesis ?

P.S. don't take it so hard :)

Thanks, I wasn't sure why or how it got here, that clarifies a lot. I am a little battered from so much work lately, I tend to jump the gun when my mind is over worked. Plus, some people have pissed me off very much and I am still tempering a little from a heated discussion (which involved the word Idiot way too much). After pimp smacking the Idea that Chaos Science isn't real, I decided to take a break, then I saw this on Google and thought...how did that happen? Now I know! Then, I shall consider this to be a philosophical thread about the nature of life and DNA and patterns...and I will now answer the question from Enmos.

How did you come about this hypothesis ?

P.S. don't take it so hard :)

Sorry, I am worn out, tired, and a little edgy. I'm human...I think?

As to my hypothesis, I came to it in many ways, not just one. I will provide one example, and if it is not enough another, then another, and so forth (as I said, I came to this hypothesis many, many ways). So...I will start with the curving concept...

Imagine if you will a line that curves. It has an angular value, though that value doesn't matter too much, lets just say its a number we can easily identify. Now...imagine that that value is dropping. What happens? The curve gets sharper. Keep doing this, what happens? Eventually the curved line begins to wrap up (considering that the line can get no shorter as we do this, but in reality it gets longer at one side and shorter at the other). Keep doing this, dropping the value so that the curve is so sharp it curves into itself. Keep doing this still. The value dropping into a number so low it is approaching an exponential curve that is within the rate that it curves into itself. If this isn't making any sense...rewind and think it over until you can see what I am talking about. Now...if this exponential rate curves from a number into a numberless infinity (think about the X and Y graph, as an exponential value jumps up to infinity) how much curving is there? What happened to the line?

Before I continue I would like to see where your mind goes with this, and at the same time ask you if you know what spectral lines are? Then I will continue with this example.

Sorry, I am worn out, tired, and a little edgy. I'm human...I think?
We all get like that sometimes, myself included.

As to my hypothesis, I came to it in many ways, not just one. I will provide one example, and if it is not enough another, then another, and so forth (as I said, I came to this hypothesis many, many ways). So...I will start with the curving concept...
I just want to say this upfront: there is very little chance I will agree with you on this. However, that doesn't mean that we can't discuss it :)

Imagine if you will a line that curves. It has an angular value, though that value doesn't matter too much, lets just say its a number we can easily identify. Now...imagine that that value is dropping. What happens? The curve gets sharper. Keep doing this, what happens? Eventually the curved line begins to wrap up (considering that the line can get no shorter as we do this, but in reality it gets longer at one side and shorter at the other). Keep doing this, dropping the value so that the curve is so sharp it curves into itself. Keep doing this still. The value dropping into a number so low it is approaching an exponential curve that is within the rate that it curves into itself. If this isn't making any sense...rewind and think it over until you can see what I am talking about.
I see what you're talking about. I'm imagining twisting a rope until the helix curves in on itself and the helix forms a helix from itself. I think this is called supercoiling ?
Carry on..

Now...if this exponential rate curves from a number into a numberless infinity (think about the X and Y graph, as an exponential value jumps up to infinity) how much curving is there? What happened to the line?
It supercoiled. Infinity can only be approached theoretically though. In reality the rope will just snap at one point, given unlimited force.

Before I continue I would like to see where your mind goes with this, and at the same time ask you if you know what spectral lines are? Then I will continue with this example.
Ok, I know what spectral lines are (Duh! ;)).

I have to go now though, I'll be back later today :)

We all get like that sometimes, myself included.

Thanks! its good to know others can relate to outbursts of emotional stress.

I just want to say this upfront: there is very little chance I will agree with you on this. However, that doesn't mean that we can't discuss it :)

We will probably end up agreeing in some areas and disagreeing in others.

I see what you're talking about. I'm imagining twisting a rope until the helix curves in on itself and the helix forms a helix from itself. I think this is called supercoiling ?
Carry on..

Supercoiling! Yes!

It supercoiled. Infinity can only be approached theoretically though. In reality the rope will just snap at one point, given unlimited force.

OK...lets say its not a rope (which would snap), but a spectral line or a line that has an elastic value of Infinity.

Ok, I know what spectral lines are (Duh! ;)).

I have to go now though, I'll be back later today :)

I don't know if spectral lines can snap...can they (can we snap light?)? Aside from that, supposing that this line I speck of can't snap, as its curving value drops to zero, it becomes a straight line, as it jumps up to Infinity by riding the exponential, its gains an infinite amount of curvature. It vanishes from sight, too curved up to be seen, and basically disappears. In between this process its curves contain every pattern there is, infinite curvature includes all the curves that compose light and vectors of energy (in whatever form), gravity, thought, what ever you can think of. Find me a real object that has no curves in it and this all falls apart, I haven't found any myself. infinite curvature including every possible pattern within it would include the pattern of your life, your body in this instant, the pattern of time, the pattern of anything that has a pattern to is...its infinite, it never runs out and instead plays out every pattern in existence.

I can't prove this, but I can hypothesize, if a spectral line is actually composed of billions of countless time lines, which converge and wind in the shape of a helix structure while running almost parallel to each other, and these time lines have no diameter that can be observes, thus somewhere between non existence imaginary zero and the 1st value, a true one that has no decimal and is indivisible, then at any point on any one of these lines the whole pattern is repeated.

Does this make any sense? I got to go too, now, I'll be back soon though and check up. I suppose you could call the super infinite coils???

Its philosophically an interesting discussion, but unfortunately, its not suitable for biology.
http://static.flickr.com/43/87501863_f1ff828c28.jpg

For a moment there, I thought I was gonna see testicles.

Thanks! its good to know others can relate to outbursts of emotional stress.

We will probably end up agreeing in some areas and disagreeing in others.

Supercoiling! Yes!
Ok :)

OK...lets say its not a rope (which would snap), but a spectral line or a line that has an elastic value of Infinity.
Ok, when I say spectral lines I am referring to this:
spectral line
–noun Optics.
a line in a spectrum due to the absorption or emission of light at a discrete frequency.
I am having difficulty imagining a spectral line coiling, let alone supercoil.

I don't know if spectral lines can snap...can they (can we snap light?)? Aside from that, supposing that this line I speck of can't snap, as its curving value drops to zero, it becomes a straight line, as it jumps up to Infinity by riding the exponential, its gains an infinite amount of curvature. It vanishes from sight, too curved up to be seen, and basically disappears.
Ok, assuming light can supercoil, I'm following you so far.

In between this process its curves contain every pattern there is, infinite curvature includes all the curves that compose light and vectors of energy (in whatever form), gravity, thought, what ever you can think of.
Why ? I thought it was just light i.e. photons..

Find me a real object that has no curves in it and this all falls apart, I haven't found any myself. infinite curvature including every possible pattern within it would include the pattern of your life, your body in this instant, the pattern of time, the pattern of anything that has a pattern to is...its infinite, it never runs out and instead plays out every pattern in existence.
Too many assumptions and not clearly based on what you said before, which I also highly doubt.
IF light can supercoil how come it then changes to other forms of energy ?

I can't prove this, but I can hypothesize, if a spectral line is actually composed of billions of countless time lines, which converge and wind in the shape of a helix structure while running almost parallel to each other, and these time lines have no diameter that can be observes, thus somewhere between non existence imaginary zero and the 1st value, a true one that has no decimal and is indivisible, then at any point on any one of these lines the whole pattern is repeated.
I hope you realize that you are applying physical characteristics to timelines..

Does this make any sense?
Not really, but I'll wait for you to answer my questions.

I got to go too, now, I'll be back soon though and check up. I suppose you could call the super infinite coils???
I see some weak parallels with string theory. I don't know enough of string theory to make comparisons though.
Did it inspire you ?

Jo.. ?

Yeah...sorry I have been so busy lately and I don't have as much time as I used to. Whats the question...where did we leave off?

Yeah...sorry I have been so busy lately and I don't have as much time as I used to. Whats the question...where did we leave off?

lol no prob. I just thought you forgot.
We left off at above post :)
Take your time though.

Ok :)
Ok, when I say spectral lines I am referring to this:
spectral line
–noun Optics.
a line in a spectrum due to the absorption or emission of light at a discrete frequency.
I am having difficulty imagining a spectral line coiling, let alone supercoil.

There is another kind of spectral line, I read about it in an older physics text book, these lines have a lot to do with light, but I recall them being described as vector energy paths or something, I have the book, I can check it out in a bit. Basically...its like we take light waves and picture them as light wave line strings.


Ok, assuming light can supercoil, I'm following you so far.


Why ? I thought it was just light i.e. photons..

Lets bypass that, space curvature we will use. "Empty" Space, curving in on a singularity point...like before the big bang. As it curves in, those curves coil more and more, until they super coil and eventually reach infinity (A singularity has no size). Thus, if reality is nothing but waves of attraction, this motionless curving contains within it each and every possible position there can be that is a pattern, which would include time...every second there is.

Too many assumptions and not clearly based on what you said before, which I also highly doubt.
IF light can supercoil how come it then changes to other forms of energy ?

Its all a pattern, nothing more. Motion is one half of the whole equation, the Illusionary half. The Real is never changing, it contains everything within itself and so it has nothing about itself that it can change. Matter is just condensed light and light is just condensed space, which is condensed as it curves into a Infinite Attractor that is defined by the existence of Singular nothingness. Thus, nothing and everything are the same. I quoted a Dr. Dardik in another thread, but I feel his insight helps to describe the Illusion half of the whole (I see things as I see them). Dr. Dardik is brilliant, but he appears to miss the unchanging principle universe that brings about the changing one we see and experience. I will include his writing, since his description of waves is worth the read and fits here, shedding some light on the relative universe that we are getting to know better each day (I seem to be more familiar with the absolute myself). I will quote him in the next reply.

I hope you realize that you are applying physical characteristics to timelines.

Eh God...I hope not. Time lines have no such. They aren't physical at all nor are they anywhere to be found, though they give birth to the illusion of time. They are non-physical and non-changing. The pattern of everything itself does not exist, and yet it cannot be denied. What a paradox!

All I can do is approach this at different angles, hopefully it will start to make sense eventually.


I see some weak parallels with string theory. I don't know enough of string theory to make comparisons though.
Did it inspire you ?

Yes, in a very ignorant sense of the word. I don't know enough about it either, even though I studied it, one can never study enough. Plus, I didn't want to specialize in anything if it meant not knowing at least a little about something else. So, my study is very spread out, thus so is my inspiration. Nothing inspires me more then seeing someone TRY HARD. Winning is not nearly as important as trying. That is itself I believe true inspiration. My own theory turns out to involve void strings (I also call the imaginary strings or time lines- which, as you say, aren't physical), that is, strings that don't even really exist, thus they are everywhere and nowhere. They have a radius of zero, that is why they don't exist. Having such a radius, at any point along these strings there is infinite curvature, the entire pattern and all existence as this pattern creates the illusion of it. The real is founded in the unreal, and when we take a closer look, the real is really unreal and the unreal is really real.

OK...here is Dr. Dardik's interesting and I'd say elegant theory. I do not agree entirely, I can't after going into the Mind Portal, which sort of blasted my mind with visions I can only try to explain- in particular, a frozen and unchanging Universe that underlies this motion wave Universe that we know or at least observe. Still, his description of the Relative half is worth including; its a fun read!

SUPERWAVE REALITY
By Dr. Irving Dardik

Adapted from Dardik, I (2005). Superwave reality. In J. P. Biberian (Ed.) Condensed matter nuclear science (pp. 81-83).

Singapore: World Scientific Publishing Company.

Here I present the elegant reality that is the natural universe. All existence is waves – only waves. This entirely new understanding of waves – what I call SuperWaves – is the single universality that generates the entire natural universe of motion, of order and of matter, space, and time. SuperWaves is not a theoretical model or mathematical law about nature; nor is it a hidden reality within nature; it is the simple reality that is nature1-4

1. Motion is SuperWaves

All motion and all changes are only waves. To create complex features in an existence that is comprised only of waves, waves must wave. All changes are changing. Waves do not move in straight lines. Waves move only within waves and contain waves, as an inherent continuum of wave motion in wave motion. This new understanding of waves as SuperWaves is an entirely new understanding of motion. Constant uniform, or linear, motion does not and cannot exist. Waves, which are in motion on one scale, are in motion, moving up and down on another scale. This is an innate continuum of waves waving, of nested scales within scales, unbroken fractals within fractals.

Linear frequencies, linear amplitudes, and linear interference patterns of superposition do not exist because nature is SuperWaves. Rather, in SuperWaves, smaller waves repeat in non-linear changing frequencies, climbing up and down the trajectory of the larger waves, In turn, the larger wave is moving with its own progressively changing frequencies and amplitudes within a yet larger wave – ad infinitum. Frequencies and amplitudes can now be recognized as existing as a seamless continuum, generating in all directions within and across scales.

2. SuperWaving Motion is Order

The order of nature exists because of the unbroken fractal order of SuperWaves. Towards the peak of the carrier wave, spiraling waves are accelerating and are most concentrated. The peak contains the highest SuperWaving frequencies and amplitudes of inner waves, whose synchrony and stability is maintained at a maximum by the peak of the carrier wave. The reverse occurs toward the trough of the carrier wave; the frequencies and amplitudes of the inner waves decrease; they spread out and disperse in all directions as change and become relatively unstable, more susceptible to perturbation. As SuperWaves are the stuff of nature and as SuperWaves are intrinsically self-similar, we can now understand why nature is fractal in form, at all scales. Nature exhibits only relative degrees or order; absolute chaos does not exist.

The puzzle of action at a distance, or non-locality, is explained by the SuperWave order of nature. A change in the form of a carrier wave will cause changes in the form of inner waves, simultaneously within and across scales. The reverse occurs as well. Changes of inner waves can simultaneously change the form and shape of the carrier wave, depending on the degree of stability of the inner and outer waves. I call this simulcausality.

Science has looked for absolute causality, or determinism, but has failed to find it. Redefining action at a distance as simulcausality explains this failure. The reason is that the waves waving are always changing, never being precisely circular or linear; as they are continuously influencing each other, they cause further change. Nature exhibits no invariance or absolute constancy. This explains why all linear measurements are inexact and approximate, and ultimately exhibit non-linear complexity.

Science separates frequencies and amplitudes as linear dimensions, and then superimposes them to explain interference patterns. From the perspective of SuperWaves, interference patterns are explained by the inherent (non-linear) continuum of amplitude, and frequency, which is the same phenomenon as action at a distance and causality, which is simulcausality. This unbroken fractal motion of SuperWaves generates the order of nature.

3. The Order of Superwaving Motion is Matter, Space, and Time

The compression of waves in the peaks of SuperWaves exhibit confined stability which manifests as matter, at all scales. At the smallest scale, matter is the confined compressed wave packet, termed a particle. At higher and higher scales of SupeWaves, the compression of clusters creates the stability that is an atom, a molecule, an organism, an ecosystem, Earth, the Solar System, our galaxy, galaxy clusters, to the whole universe itself. At each scale, SuperWaves organize and bring relative coherence to the inner waves, in seamless fractally nested jumps – this is relative order. Conversely, the gaps between particles or object masses that we presently perceive as space are regions of SuperWaves dispersion – this is relative disorder. Matter and space are therefore different manifestations of the same SuperWave continuum; this applies to matterspace on all scales.

The forces of nature – the weak and strong forces, electromagnetism, and gravity – are also manifestations of SuperWaves. Gravity and the strong force are the attractor peaks of carrier waves manifesting as matter, with gravity being at a higher SuperWaving scale than the strong force, fractals of each other. The weak force and electromagnetism are also fractals of each other, being the repulsion or dispersal of waves which is space.

The understanding of SuperWaves gives a new understanding of how organization comes about in nature. Matter is described above as the relatively stable compression of waves at the peak of a SuperWave. The process of waves waving within waves, moving toward the peak in an inherent continuum of scalar jumps, is what science calls the emergence and evolution of organizational order. The process of dispersal and flattening of SuperWaves, also occurring as inherent continuous jumps, manifests as Cartesian order of parts and what science calls thermodynamic entropy. Just as evolution and entropy are processes of change as a result of moving towards and away from the peak, so too is time the outcome of waves waving. Waves waving is change, the irreversible process that is time. Time is perceived differently, depending locally on the scale of waves waving. SuperWaves is matterspace is time.

4. Conclusion

Science has perceived nature to be a universe of matter in motion, governed by mathematical laws of order. In reality, nature is SuperWaves, whose motion is the order of the universe that is matterspacetime. The recognition of the SuperWave universe allows for the investigation and understanding of the individual parts in the true context of their indivisible collective wholeness. The scientific, mathematical laws of nature are in fact partial abstractions to a linear ideal of the true SuperWaving order present in different scales of the universe.

SuperWaves provides a new understanding of how to go about understanding the universe. The received understanding of the universe is that it is too complicated to understand all at once. Therefore, the scientific method is forced to try to understand nature piece by piece. In other words, science treats nature as if it were discontinuous. Investigating nature form this perspective means that inherent continuity cannot be identified. However, from the perspective of SuperWaves, the universe is recognized as being seamlessly and exclusively a wave universe in which everything is connected to, and affects, everything else all at once while everything is changing. This order, the inherently continuous pattern of motion, is the true indivisibility (a-tomos) of nature. The universe is the manifestation of this order, neither random nor uncertain. The recognition of the SuperWave universe allows for the investigation and understanding of the individual parts in the true context of their indivisible collective wholeness.

The universe is ultimately not a material universe. In reality the universe is a motion universe, where matter is a consequence of wave motion. How the universe works is what the universe is made of. What remains to be understood is a new recognition of all accumulated and future knowledge in light of SuperWaves. So I begin here by going back to the beginning of all our thinking, all our understanding about the nature of the universe. The true reality that is the universe is SuperWaves.

http://dardik-institute.org/theory.asp

Now...I imagine comes the question...how is this related? I will let you ask before I answer this in more detail.

There is another kind of spectral line, I read about it in an older physics text book, these lines have a lot to do with light, but I recall them being described as vector energy paths or something, I have the book, I can check it out in a bit. Basically...its like we take light waves and picture them as light wave line strings.

Lets bypass that, space curvature we will use. "Empty" Space, curving in on a singularity point...like before the big bang. As it curves in, those curves coil more and more, until they super coil and eventually reach infinity (A singularity has no size). Thus, if reality is nothing but waves of attraction, this motionless curving contains within it each and every possible position there can be that is a pattern, which would include time...every second there is.

Its all a pattern, nothing more. Motion is one half of the whole equation, the Illusionary half. The Real is never changing, it contains everything within itself and so it has nothing about itself that it can change. Matter is just condensed light and light is just condensed space, which is condensed as it curves into a Infinite Attractor that is defined by the existence of Singular nothingness. Thus, nothing and everything are the same. I quoted a Dr. Dardik in another thread, but I feel his insight helps to describe the Illusion half of the whole (I see things as I see them). Dr. Dardik is brilliant, but he appears to miss the unchanging principle universe that brings about the changing one we see and experience. I will include his writing, since his description of waves is worth the read and fits here, shedding some light on the relative universe that we are getting to know better each day (I seem to be more familiar with the absolute myself). I will quote him in the next reply.

Eh God...I hope not. Time lines have no such. They don't even more themselves, even though they give birth to the illusion of time. They are non-physical and non-changing. The pattern of everything itself does not exist, and yet it cannot be denied. What a paradox!

All I can do is approach this at different angles, hopefully it will start to make sense eventually.

Yes, in a very ignorant sense of the word. I don't know enough about it either, even though I studied it, one can never study enough. Plus, I didn't want to specialize in anything if it meant not knowing at least a little about something else. So, my study is very spread out, thus so is my inspiration. Nothing inspires me more then seeing someone TRY HARD. Winning is not nearly as important as trying. That is itself I believe true inspiration. My own theory turns out to involve void strings (I also call the imaginary strings or time lines- which, as you say, aren't physical), that is, strings that don't even really exist, thus they are everywhere and nowhere. They have a radius of zero, that is why they don't exist. Having such a radius, at any point along these strings there is infinite curvature, the entire pattern and all existence as this pattern creates the illusion of it. The real is founded in the unreal, and when we take a closer look, the real is really unreal and the unreal is really real.

Hmm to be honest I can't do anything with this. It seems grossly unsubstantiated.. :shrug:
I will read that theory now.

P.S.
Dr. Darkdik ?? LOL

OK...here is Dr. Dardik's interesting and I'd say elegant theory. I do not agree entirely, I can't after going into the Mind Portal, which sort of blasted my mind with visions I can only try to explain- in particular, a frozen and unchanging Universe that underlies this motion wave Universe that we know or at least observe. Still, his description of the Relative half is worth including; its a fun read!

SUPERWAVE REALITY
By Dr. Irving Dardik

Adapted from Dardik, I (2005). Superwave reality. In J. P. Biberian (Ed.) Condensed matter nuclear science (pp. 81-83).

Singapore: World Scientific Publishing Company.

Here I present the elegant reality that is the natural universe. All existence is waves – only waves. This entirely new understanding of waves – what I call SuperWaves – is the single universality that generates the entire natural universe of motion, of order and of matter, space, and time. SuperWaves is not a theoretical model or mathematical law about nature; nor is it a hidden reality within nature; it is the simple reality that is nature1-4

1. Motion is SuperWaves

All motion and all changes are only waves. To create complex features in an existence that is comprised only of waves, waves must wave. All changes are changing. Waves do not move in straight lines. Waves move only within waves and contain waves, as an inherent continuum of wave motion in wave motion. This new understanding of waves as SuperWaves is an entirely new understanding of motion. Constant uniform, or linear, motion does not and cannot exist. Waves, which are in motion on one scale, are in motion, moving up and down on another scale. This is an innate continuum of waves waving, of nested scales within scales, unbroken fractals within fractals.

Linear frequencies, linear amplitudes, and linear interference patterns of superposition do not exist because nature is SuperWaves. Rather, in SuperWaves, smaller waves repeat in non-linear changing frequencies, climbing up and down the trajectory of the larger waves, In turn, the larger wave is moving with its own progressively changing frequencies and amplitudes within a yet larger wave – ad infinitum. Frequencies and amplitudes can now be recognized as existing as a seamless continuum, generating in all directions within and across scales.

2. SuperWaving Motion is Order

The order of nature exists because of the unbroken fractal order of SuperWaves. Towards the peak of the carrier wave, spiraling waves are accelerating and are most concentrated. The peak contains the highest SuperWaving frequencies and amplitudes of inner waves, whose synchrony and stability is maintained at a maximum by the peak of the carrier wave. The reverse occurs toward the trough of the carrier wave; the frequencies and amplitudes of the inner waves decrease; they spread out and disperse in all directions as change and become relatively unstable, more susceptible to perturbation. As SuperWaves are the stuff of nature and as SuperWaves are intrinsically self-similar, we can now understand why nature is fractal in form, at all scales. Nature exhibits only relative degrees or order; absolute chaos does not exist.

The puzzle of action at a distance, or non-locality, is explained by the SuperWave order of nature. A change in the form of a carrier wave will cause changes in the form of inner waves, simultaneously within and across scales. The reverse occurs as well. Changes of inner waves can simultaneously change the form and shape of the carrier wave, depending on the degree of stability of the inner and outer waves. I call this simulcausality.

Science has looked for absolute causality, or determinism, but has failed to find it. Redefining action at a distance as simulcausality explains this failure. The reason is that the waves waving are always changing, never being precisely circular or linear; as they are continuously influencing each other, they cause further change. Nature exhibits no invariance or absolute constancy. This explains why all linear measurements are inexact and approximate, and ultimately exhibit non-linear complexity.

Science separates frequencies and amplitudes as linear dimensions, and then superimposes them to explain interference patterns. From the perspective of SuperWaves, interference patterns are explained by the inherent (non-linear) continuum of amplitude, and frequency, which is the same phenomenon as action at a distance and causality, which is simulcausality. This unbroken fractal motion of SuperWaves generates the order of nature.

3. The Order of Superwaving Motion is Matter, Space, and Time

The compression of waves in the peaks of SuperWaves exhibit confined stability which manifests as matter, at all scales. At the smallest scale, matter is the confined compressed wave packet, termed a particle. At higher and higher scales of SupeWaves, the compression of clusters creates the stability that is an atom, a molecule, an organism, an ecosystem, Earth, the Solar System, our galaxy, galaxy clusters, to the whole universe itself. At each scale, SuperWaves organize and bring relative coherence to the inner waves, in seamless fractally nested jumps – this is relative order. Conversely, the gaps between particles or object masses that we presently perceive as space are regions of SuperWaves dispersion – this is relative disorder. Matter and space are therefore different manifestations of the same SuperWave continuum; this applies to matterspace on all scales.

The forces of nature – the weak and strong forces, electromagnetism, and gravity – are also manifestations of SuperWaves. Gravity and the strong force are the attractor peaks of carrier waves manifesting as matter, with gravity being at a higher SuperWaving scale than the strong force, fractals of each other. The weak force and electromagnetism are also fractals of each other, being the repulsion or dispersal of waves which is space.

The understanding of SuperWaves gives a new understanding of how organization comes about in nature. Matter is described above as the relatively stable compression of waves at the peak of a SuperWave. The process of waves waving within waves, moving toward the peak in an inherent continuum of scalar jumps, is what science calls the emergence and evolution of organizational order. The process of dispersal and flattening of SuperWaves, also occurring as inherent continuous jumps, manifests as Cartesian order of parts and what science calls thermodynamic entropy. Just as evolution and entropy are processes of change as a result of moving towards and away from the peak, so too is time the outcome of waves waving. Waves waving is change, the irreversible process that is time. Time is perceived differently, depending locally on the scale of waves waving. SuperWaves is matterspace is time.

4. Conclusion

Science has perceived nature to be a universe of matter in motion, governed by mathematical laws of order. In reality, nature is SuperWaves, whose motion is the order of the universe that is matterspacetime. The recognition of the SuperWave universe allows for the investigation and understanding of the individual parts in the true context of their indivisible collective wholeness. The scientific, mathematical laws of nature are in fact partial abstractions to a linear ideal of the true SuperWaving order present in different scales of the universe.

SuperWaves provides a new understanding of how to go about understanding the universe. The received understanding of the universe is that it is too complicated to understand all at once. Therefore, the scientific method is forced to try to understand nature piece by piece. In other words, science treats nature as if it were discontinuous. Investigating nature form this perspective means that inherent continuity cannot be identified. However, from the perspective of SuperWaves, the universe is recognized as being seamlessly and exclusively a wave universe in which everything is connected to, and affects, everything else all at once while everything is changing. This order, the inherently continuous pattern of motion, is the true indivisibility (a-tomos) of nature. The universe is the manifestation of this order, neither random nor uncertain. The recognition of the SuperWave universe allows for the investigation and understanding of the individual parts in the true context of their indivisible collective wholeness.

The universe is ultimately not a material universe. In reality the universe is a motion universe, where matter is a consequence of wave motion. How the universe works is what the universe is made of. What remains to be understood is a new recognition of all accumulated and future knowledge in light of SuperWaves. So I begin here by going back to the beginning of all our thinking, all our understanding about the nature of the universe. The true reality that is the universe is SuperWaves.

http://dardik-institute.org/theory.asp

Now...I imagine comes the question...how is this related? I will let you ask before I answer this in more detail.

Hum.. ok, waves of what ?
I'm sorry but the article comes off as a lot of babble, and no mention of evidence..

And I'm am going to ask another question. How is this related to DNA changing 3.000.000 times a second ?

Hum.. ok, waves of what ?
I'm sorry but the article comes off as a lot of babble, and no mention of evidence..

And I'm am going to ask another question. How is this related to DNA changing 3.000.000 times a second ?

OK...if matter is condensed light as the theory of relativity says it is, and light is composed of waves, then all matter is composed of waves as well. Then there are gravity waves and brain waves and more, I could go on listing the waves and produce a very long list. Can you tell me what isn't composed of waves?

Next, I will have to get back to the next question tomorrow, as time is running out for today (as I said, I am dealing with more limits then ever before), and I still need to write a Trecena Report. Give it some...time.

Cheers,
Jozen-Bo
:)

OK...if matter is condensed light as the theory of relativity says it is, and light is composed of waves, then all matter is composed of waves as well. Then there are gravity waves and brain waves and more, I could go on listing the waves and produce a very long list. Can you tell me what isn't composed of waves?

Next, I will have to get back to the next question tomorrow, as time is running out for today (as I said, I am dealing with more limits then ever before), and I still need to write a Trecena Report. Give it some...time.

Cheers,
Jozen-Bo
:)

I'm not sure the theory of relativity says that though, I might just be ignorant of it though. Link ?

Ok, good luck :)

I went over to a DNA molecular biology forums to ask this question. Its a done deal, DNA changes and mutates, end of story!

if DNA did not mutate we wouldn't have evolution

DNA does not mutate at the rate you proposed. The question in the OP (does DNA change) is pretty much a straw man, as it is clear that DNA undergoes changes. However you (Jozen-Bo) seems to be quite confused regarding the mechanism of DNA mutation, conformation changes and molecule interactions, as well the consequences of these.

I went over to a DNA molecular biology forums to ask this question. Its a done deal, DNA changes and mutates, end of story!

Of course it does. But not at the rate you said. I think you really are confusing mutation with degrees of freedom of a molecule.

Of course it does. But not at the rate you said. I think you really are confusing mutation with degrees of freedom of a molecule.

I thought this was said on the first page, shouldn't this thread have ended there?

I thought this was said on the first page, shouldn't this thread have ended there?

Yes, it should have.. :(

I'd say our DNA as a species is going downhill, when people smoke, it modifies their DNA, when they drink, it also places new chemicals into the DNA strands, and I believe that when we eat foods with certain preservatives, that too degrades our DNA. I believe that some of these DNA mutations are passed down to children, thus, we may be permanently messing up our future. On the other hand, DNA may one day be fully customizable with new technology, so perhaps we can figure a way to fix these problems. Who will you trust to "fix" your DNA? lol

I'm sorry I missed this thread. Jozen-Bo reads to me like the new Happeh.

DNA does not mutate at the rate you proposed. The question in the OP (does DNA change) is pretty much a straw man, as it is clear that DNA undergoes changes. However you (Jozen-Bo) seems to be quite confused regarding the mechanism of DNA mutation, conformation changes and molecule interactions, as well the consequences of these.

:shrug:
I might add that You (CharonZ) seem to give no exact reason as to why you (CharonZ) say that. You haven't backed yourself up with any precision. Will you point out the exact area of this confusion as you (CharonZ) understand it?

Of course it does. But not at the rate you said. I think you really are confusing mutation with degrees of freedom of a molecule.

What was the rate I said? Restatement please!

I thought this was said on the first page, shouldn't this thread have ended there?

I sorta thought the same thing for a second, but here it is.

*sigh* I know that I am just prolonging this useless thread, but here it goes.
DNA changes approximately 3,000,000 times per a second (SCIENTIFIC FACT .

As about everyone else here already mentioned, DNA information does not change at this rate. Also I did not think that I needed to give a reason why to state what I stated. It was not me who confused terms and made a mess out of them.
Maybe we should try to define things a bit here. No molecule is static and due to the form of the DNA it also can undergo conformational changes. However, genetic information is stored in the sequence of bases, which will not be changed by conformation changes. Changes are usually associated with a polymerization step, as e.g. during DNA repair or replication, which occurs at a far slower rate.

*sigh* I know that I am just prolonging this useless thread, but here it goes.
.

As about everyone else here already mentioned, DNA information does not change at this rate. Also I did not think that I needed to give a reason why to state what I stated. It was not me who confused terms and made a mess out of them.
Maybe we should try to define things a bit here. No molecule is static and due to the form of the DNA it also can undergo conformational changes. However, genetic information is stored in the sequence of bases, which will not be changed by conformation changes. Changes are usually associated with a polymerization step, as e.g. during DNA repair or replication, which occurs at a far slower rate.

You are completely wrong! Funny! I expected you to point something else out, because this is utter nonsense. I figured elsewhere there might be something, but you are trying to debase one of the most solid and easy to defend and obvious things. You are confused here, not me!