From Puppet strings (http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=13030):

Posted by Mystech:
Haha, uh oh, Rowan is on to me, I think! I'm jealous of her mystical powers! So now, aparently spirtual evolution is crying about shit you just aren't involved in? Sounds productive! Wouldn't someone who's "spritualy enlightend" Be able to do something rather than just sit and cry, haha.


From The only form of discovery left (http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=12468):

Posted by Adam:
Actually I consider further exploration of the physical world around us a mere interesting curiousity. Science, our method of discovery, is an important way to proceed into the future. But why proceed into the future? With what purpose? This, purpose and reasons and such, is a far more interesting place to explore. I have no doubt that as we move on, we will be able to go wherever we can imagine, do whatever we can imagine. Actually I think that is a fait accompli, and the only difference between such capability and our current situation is time. It will happen. So for the purposes of asking questions in this regard, we can leave it out of the discussion for now. That set aside, what is left to discuss? Why will we do things? Do we have the right to do those things? How do we decide such rights? Who gives a damn, and why? Finding absolute, hole-proof logic to explain these "Why"s is something which is far less certain or inevitable than the fact that we will do those things.


Personally I think we will, one day or the next, be capable of doing anything we can imagine, capable of going everywhere we imagine. I also think that despite our developing technology, we are still guided by the very same urges which guided our ancestors fifty million years ago. Food, sex, shelter and security, jealousy, greed, anger, fear and hate. Look around the world right now. Most of the problems going on could be solved with our current technology, but we are hindered by those old problems I just mentioned.

Are we evolving spiritually at all? Or are we still the same hairless apes we were a thousand generations back? Are we advancing alongside our technology? Or are we just monkeys with shiny toys?

What say you?

I fail to see where spirituality even enters the discussion....?

:confused:

Hopefully you will, soon.

Where's my shiney toy?

Mazlow's triangle. The basic elements of survival a human needs:


Food

Shelter

Love


What has this world accomplished with science so far?
Food - genetic crops, super markets, everything you can imagine basically possible, and more to come

Shelter - world trade centers. kuala-lumpur double-tower. Frank lloyd wright falling water. Subdivisions full of multi-million dollar many thousand squarefoot homes.

Love - ohhhhh..........OUCH, not there...

Nebula, you seem to think the human form is already in it's perfected form, and we cannot evolve further. Would you care to consider if this was true, maybe we wouldn't have pollution problems, starvation, climate troubles, and global warming? Perhaps all the mental and physical illnesses which are more abundant than they EVER have been would not be.

Perhaps the perfected form has an all-encompasses sense of one-ness and of spirituality that is lacking in this current world. Perhaps we are not there yet, and we will have to take people like you by the ears, kicking and screaming like little babies, before we can reach it.

Glacial;

How does it appear that I think humans are already perfected??? :confused: I think humans have a LONG way to go ;).

Adam;

I guess my main problem is that you have made a jump from talking about human needs and emotions (Food, sex, shelter and security, jealousy, greed, anger, fear and hate) to talking about spirits. Can I ask you to define how you are using the word "spiritually", especially when you ask "Are we evolving spiritually at all?" Thanks.

I'll answer the question reading from another angle, where spirit doesn't really apply to anything supernatural (maybe by spiritually you mean mentally?)....

As humans continue to populate this Earth we aquire more and more knowledge of the world we live in, and in turn, our needs become more complicated. All of our primeval tendencies are applied to a modern setting; for example, the behavior of being territorial is no longer limited to property, rather one can be "territorial" with ideas...

The basic urges of humans has stayed the same, but we are not "apes with shiny toys." As we deviate from apes, so does the manner by which we go about aquiring our needs and fulfiling our desires.

Make sense?

Cheers :cool:

Originally posted by Nebula

I guess my main problem is that you have made a jump from talking about human needs and emotions (Food, sex, shelter and security, jealousy, greed, anger, fear and hate) to talking about spirits.
I don't mean ghosts looking like floating white sheets. I mean our individual and collective human spirit, our purpose and drive and reasons.

Okay. Did the latter part of my last post sort of answer your question then?

Originally posted by Nebula

As humans continue to populate this Earth we aquire more and more knowledge of the world we live in, and in turn, our needs become more complicated. All of our primeval tendencies are applied to a modern setting; for example, the behavior of being territorial is no longer limited to property, rather one can be "territorial" with ideas...

So you're saying we're still guided by the same old drives, just with a modern setting? In other words, we are what we were, just with better toys?

Originally posted by Nebula

The basic urges of humans has stayed the same, but we are not "apes with shiny toys." As we deviate from apes, so does the manner by which we go about aquiring our needs and fulfiling our desires.

The manner in which we go about it? So basically our toys change?

Yeah. As humans gain more knowledge our desires/needs expand, and we find bigger and better ways of fulfiling those constant/everlasting urges.

I don't mean to be a hater or anything...

but most of the message boards I frequent generally, don't even have or tolerate people without some faith. They definately give them a chance but they don't let them run-amuck around their constructive thoughts...

This sciforums seems to be hopelessly filled with close minded technological introverted little boys.

How sad..

You are an ape with shiny toys, nebula--your shiny toys are your words and your intelligence which blind you from more basic aspects of life. You're content within your shell that you fail to ever think outside of it, that you're blinded by yourself. you will be a MAN when you develope spirituality. When you try to GIVE before you TAKE. When you perform unabashed altruism for the benefit of fellow man, all man, all women. When you treat everyone as equal.


Obviously leaders like Muhummed Gandhi, Martin Luther King, JFK, Mother Theresa, and MANY MANY MORE, especially those whos names you and I do not even know....thats why people followed them, cause they're FULL of bullshit...right? Lets discredit all those great leaders and spiritual people...they're all living in a fantasy world..who would want to follow them?

Oh wait, they had the focus of humanity. They had legions of people behind their causes..they had recognition. They had power. Do you think it came from being negatively critical of everything around them, or did it come from loving their enemy, treating others like they wish to be treated?


George bush is a leader too.. but i think hes mr money bags. Think Enron.. Energy.. Oil... Texas.. hmmmmmm connections? He says he is a christian but I thought jesus said love your enemy? hmmmmm theres another one of those contradictions.

Why don't you listen and learn. You don't lose ANY face to say, "well maybe my views aren't fully encompasing, what can you I do that might broaden my scope of vision?". I'll tell you if I heard that from you, or if you gave an apology to Rowen and Xandrique, more appropriately. Either of those and I'd give you more respect than the none I have for you now.

Glacial:
This sciforums seems to be hopelessly filled with close minded technological introverted little boys.

I'm female, and you are obviously a sexist person.

You are an ape with shiny toys, nebula--your shiny toys are your words and your intelligence which blind you from more basic aspects of life. You're content within your shell that you fail to ever think outside of it, that you're blinded by yourself. you will be a MAN when you develope spirituality. When you try to GIVE before you TAKE. When you perform unabashed altruism for the benefit of fellow man, all man, all women. When you treat everyone as equal.

Why don't you experience that before you start ranting about it?

Obviously leaders like Muhummed Gandhi, Martin Luther King, JFK, Mother Theresa, and MANY MANY MORE, especially those whos names you and I do not even know....thats why people followed them, cause they're FULL of bullshit...right? Lets discredit all those great leaders and spiritual people...they're all living in a fantasy world..who would want to follow them?

Appeal to authority.

Oh wait, they had the focus of humanity. They had legions of people behind their causes..they had recognition. They had power. Do you think it came from being negatively critical of everything around them, or did it come from loving their enemy, treating others like they wish to be treated?

It came from having people willing to follow them.

Why don't you listen and learn. You don't lose ANY face to say, "well maybe my views aren't fully encompasing, what can you I do that might broaden my scope of vision?". I'll tell you if I heard that from you, or if you gave an apology to Rowen and Xandrique, more appropriately. Either of those and I'd give you more respect than the none I have for you now.

How about you shut up and stop being the opposite of the ideals you espouse? :rolleyes:

Glacial;

Me a little boy? Who's having trouble keeping the flaming to one thread? :)

I really don't understand how you can make such sudden judgements about me after a few posts on a board like this...must I remind you that you don't even KNOW me?!?!

Also, don't feel like your doing us any favors in sticking around this board. If you don't like it, leave. But your derogatory comments about it are definately, in my eyes, unecessary.

you will be a MAN when you develope spirituality. When you try to GIVE before you TAKE. When you perform unabashed altruism for the benefit of fellow man, all man, all women. When you treat everyone as equal.

I know you won't believe me, but in everyday life I'm been told that I'm an extremely sensitive and generous person. What brought you to these conclusions? The fact that I believe in being good just for the sake of being good rather that some "spiritual force?"

Oh, and just because I may be suspicious of someone's "inspiration" doesn't mean I don't accept their views. I question whether Jesus was the son of god, for example, but he still has many legitamate points.

It seems as if you are the one who won't listen to people based on their "beliefs," for what more have I told you other than I believe existence is physical? Certainly not enough for you to validate your claims about me. It would seem, rather, that you have made assumptions about me.

BTW, despite as much chaos as it has already caused....welcome to sciforums :). I hope your impression of us changes.

Xev?? I am sexist???????????

Tell me, can you relate to this:

You meet someone. You are in somewhat of a vulnerable state, be it physical, mental, or spiritual. You trust them because you want to trust them, you want to think all people are good and never have motives which are aimed soley at benefitting themselves. You trust them because you are weak and they seem strong, and you need help and want to be strong yourself. You spend time with this person, mentally, or physically... You listen to them. You talk to them. You think they listen to you. They talk to you. They'll encourage you, but then they'll plant a little seed of self doubt in you. Eventually you get to a point where you totally break down and lose your entire sense of self. Someone laughing on the far-side of the room feels as though it is a devil's chastisement, hitting poking at every inch of your inner core and essence. Everyone talking around you feels as though they are talking soley about you. They know my thoughts...they know how insecure I am..they are jumping on me like RABBID DOGS!! HELP! THIS IS VERY PAINFUL!

And then you realize, wow.. this person that I gave my full and unabashed trust to...they took advantage of me. They used me for their own means. They abused me for their benefit. They hurt me. I want them to say sorry. I am so confused, now they tell me this is my fault. hmm.. And what about all these things around me, they seem to say I am wrong. I did bad. I deserve this pain. Hmm. Now I feel I must carry around a sick attatchment to this pain. It is mine! I must hold onto it, don't take my pain from me! I have anger, you will hear it... HEAR IT???
I just want them to apologize, but how come that is the last thing on this earth I will ever get from them? Boy it sucks to live with this shit, I need to carry it with me everywhere. Life's not fair. Poor me. Pity me. I need attention. I am special, won't you realize it?

Far from being sexist, I recognize women as the source of ALL LIFE ON EARTH. MOTHER EARTH. Gaia. Female begits creation. Unfortunately in this LOGICAL MALE DRIVEN WORLD, as much as the fruits of technology are beautiful, they have put women down to the level of almost nothing. Skinny girls, skimpy clothes. I hate that shit. I mean i am attracted to it, but i am male, sue me. You think SKINNY was popular before 100 years ago? The fatter the woman, THE BETTER was the avant garde-status quo that rode for thousands of years. Every single female that I see is a beautiful universe, and its just quite to easy to get lost in the sea of them, the difficult part is finding one that I can lose myself in--so many are so shallow (and its not their fault, the only thing the world around them says is to look pretty and make a man happy, at their own expense) I am strong and I have a very secure sense of self, my only hope in this would be that I could lift every female on this earth, up upon my shoulders. They have suffered for far too long..

Well, appeal to authority. Looks as if there is POSITIVE AND NEGATIVE sources of authority. People also appealed to NAZI GERMANY AND HITLER. Yeah..that was positive--WRONG. People appealed to MLK and GHANDI and...THAT WAS POSITIVE--independence from british rule, civil rights movement and attempts at equality. You think the people are SOOO brainless? yes they want to be lead but, it is in the leaders hands to lead them on a path or lead them astray from it.

Now, why don't YOU shut up, and quit it with that sarcastic smiley face, bitch.

I am not out to discredit you, Nebula.

Read my reply to MissedTech's impotence of thought post.

Nebula, i bet you are intelligent. You sure seem to show it. I bet you are generous, I bet you have a big heart. However I don't seem to see it. Likely I don't because I came off as an enemy to you, and because I took the offense to see you as an enemy to me. I Will offer you an apology as quickly as I offer war. I am sorry. Do you forgive me? I can forgive you. I am sure you are a creative and productive person, someone who can benefit others in society. It's not too late to change, it never is. i am only asking that you open your eyes a little wider, to what might not be there. Don't feel a NEED to see it, to rest on the ways of the past, of seeing to believe. Have a little faith.

You can make your being a much more encompassing being if you will accept and love yourself. It is only what I wish for everyone. Have some faith, along with all the great endeavors that you have now, and you'll find they seem to multiply.

Glacial:
Xev?? I am sexist???????????

Yes you are, and you use too many exclamation points to boot.

I just want them to apologize, but how come that is the last thing on this earth I will ever get from them? Boy it sucks to live with this shit, I need to carry it with me everywhere. Life's not fair. Poor me. Pity me. I need attention. I am special, won't you realize it?

Dude, we do NOT need to hear about your ex-girlfriend or whatever the hell you're ranting about.

Far from being sexist, I recognize women as the source of ALL LIFE ON EARTH. MOTHER EARTH. Gaia. Female begits creation. Unfortunately in this LOGICAL MALE DRIVEN WORLD,

Oh, so I'm illogical because I'm a woman?

Now, why don't YOU shut up, and quit it with that sarcastic smiley face, bitch.

You wouldn't say that if I was a man.

1) you're not a man, and I am. So I said you're acting like a bitch.

2) Please don't put words into my mouth, I never called you illogical. honey, it may be hard for you to accept this fact, but the world you live in is both male-ego driven and logical. There are beautiful creations which balance this close-sense, however, the way things stand now, there are phallic reminders of male dominance all around you.

3) Honestly my last EX walked out one night cause she was so-codependent she couldn't stand me being next door with some of my guy friends, hence I never ever bothered chasing after her. What I talk about with my 'crazy' ranting probably hits too close to home for you, as it is the general scope of many scenarios when a male uses a female for his own benefit, in a moment of her weakness and trusting.

4) Exclamation points make me sexist... ILLOGICAL, so now I am calling you that.


Grow up girl

And please, can I have a retort to my comment about positive and negative leaders, or is everyone just sooo stupid you wish to think they are as hopeless as you are?

What was the thread originally about? I've lost track.


It seems wherever I go Nebula and GlacialImprint are fighting :P

But I don't agree with any of you about your opinions on the other person. Xev, who keeps wanting to misunderstand GlacialImprint, Nebula who keeps wanting to argue, and GlacialImprint being slightly eager to know the other person without KNOWING the other person.

It's kind of silly.

But being where I have come from, and sucken into the depths of feeling at the mercy of collective conscious, it is not too hard at all to know exactly where someone is coming from with their emotions. They may have underlying motives for their own benefit and reasoning, however I need not know their own individual motives in order to see the outward expression (not open to the notion of losing control they 'think' they have of themselves in the world)

Like I've done for mystech, and for nebula, both credited them for abilities they obviously have. I don't fight, I use words to communicate--however when I am frustrated as I am still learning how to weild the unnerving and eye-opening experience of collective conscious, you find little flames (ie puns/generalizations/sarcasticness)

Everyone unique and special all the same, but how come I couldn't know that until they have to tell me their specific talents, before I confront them all I saw was critical nature of others and general selfishness?

Pure pride in logic, disgusting and ugly, xandrique, as you know me.

Tell me I wasn't there locked very very deeply in highschool, more than a couple years ago.. sitting like a bobbling duck. Tell me I'm not still feeling those reverberations, along with many other new feelings of higher vibrations.

Glacial, thanks. I needed to laugh.

Take a valium, sweetie, come back, read my posts. Realization will dawn.

How could taking drugs EVER help me realize something.

Looks like you're loaded on them. You speak of vicodin you speak of valium. So you have mental issues? depression? pain? anxiety?

I've never had to take such drugs to 'dull' my senses and emotions because they were 'too' much for me.

Have you ever read a book by carl jung?

**sneaks into thread...

Ahem...http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=13030&perpage=20&pagenumber=4

**leaves

*High fives Nebula*

Glacial, I know drugs because I am interested in medicine, especially pharmecuticals (sp?).

No, I don't have "mental issues", although your prejudice against those with legitimate medical problems is duly noted. Show a little compassion, dude!

Have you ever read a book by carl jung?

Which one? I think he wrote more than one. :rolleyes:

(I've read "Man and His Symbols". Very interesting.)

High fives? For what? I was never here. You never saw me ;) .



but you "felt my presence" :rolleyes:

theres that sarcastic smile.

As for drugs, I never needed them to DULL pain, like vicodin or valium do. I did once take paxil for depression, over 5 months about 3 years ago. That worked as a good stepping stone, but thats all. It's easy to be given a prescription that 'makes everything better'. Obviously thats a cover for some deeper issues. I would never succumb to dependence on an outside chemical to sustain my ability to 'navigate' in life.

My question was how could valium EVER help me realize something you are saying? If anything it would make it even more glossy to read over.

You wonder about pharmecutical drugs, what about psychedelics? Whats your knowledge there?

Jung, Man and his Symbols. Damn you're dense if you read that and can't understand what I say:

Page 171 - Realization of the Shadow:

Have you realized your own shadow, and before you QUICKLY say you have, think about it and realize it is not just your EGO thinking.

anyone ever go to DMT WORLD or DEOXY.org?

Glacial:
My question was how could valium EVER help me realize something you are saying? If anything it would make it even more glossy to read over.

Valium might make you somewhat calm. Calm is good, especially when you act like an Jack Russel terrier who's been given a double-espresso. :p

perhaps you don't see passion and heart when it's standing right in front of you. well based on all your replies, this is obvious.

I see the ASCII effluence of a waste of oxygen, this is obvious.

I mean, you don't even realize that I'm taunting when I call you sexist. D-UH! ;)