The headlines continue to tell us about christians being used as pawns to negotiate the release of taliban prisoners. After googling the headlines for a while, I found they are a humanitarian team from a presbyterian church in South Korea. Their pastor has already been killed.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070803/ap_on_re_as/afghanistan


http://www.christiantoday.com/article/korean.church.appeals.for.urgent.prayers.for.hosta ges/12060.htm



The Presbyterian Church in the Republic of Korea (PROK) has issued an urgent prayer appeal to the global Christian community for the remaining 21 Korean hostages held by Taliban militants in Afghanistan after the deaths of two male hostages.

The remaining 21 hostages, mainly women, are enduring their 16th day of captivity after Taliban gunmen hijacked their bus in the insurgency-prone Ghazni province on July 19. The group is part of the Presbyterian Saemmul Community Church in Bundang, just south of the South Korean capital Seoul, and was in the country to provide free medical services to poor Afghan citizens.


They do need christian prayer. They went to Afghanistan to supply humanitarian support for that war-torn country and now they are prisoners. They were not breaking any of the laws there in Afganistan, or any of the religious customs. They were simply there to help.

They were warned by the travel authorities before they went, but they said their calling as a church body requires them to go in harm's way. This team has served in several countries that needed their help. Now they need help. Please pray for them, those that believe in God.

Thank you.

Also please remember that more christians are dieing in service NOW than has ever occured in the history of the church. This is the word I am getting from the missionary authorities.

This team has served in several countries that needed their help. Now they need help. Please pray for them, those that believe in God.


Not to upset anyone but I thought it perhaps worth asking if god can't take care of his own - especially as they are apparently doing his work?

No malice intended, it's an honest question.

Yes, in the christian line of thinking, God can take care of His own and He knows what is happening. Sometimes christians die in service, but that is not the end of the story: those that commited the atrocities have converted to christianity in several instances.

On the otherhand, God also proves Himself through prayer. It is up to the faithful to accept either outcome. With the right attitude in prayer, it can make a difference, or at least we believe we see evidence of it. Hence that is why I make the petition.

Just an honest answer.

The martyrdom of Christians converted many Romans to Christianity. I guess Islam knows a thing or two about martyrdom, too. Ideally, the Muslims and the Christians could all martyr each other, and that would be the end of this nonsense.

The martyrdom of Christians converted many Romans to Christianity. I guess Islam knows a thing or two about martyrdom, too. Ideally, the Muslims and the Christians could all martyr each other, and that would be the end of this nonsense.

Surprisingly so do atheists. The first "muslim" martyrs in Lebanon were marxist atheists. So are the anti-religious LTTEs who haven't run out of martyrs since the 1970s and at any one time have 400 plus men/women on their suicide cadre.

Yes, in the christian line of thinking, God can take care of His own and He knows what is happening.
*************
M*W: "In the christian line of thinking," people depend on their god to take care of them, so they don't bother to take care of themselves or find out what is happening.

Sometimes christians die in service, but that is not the end of the story: those that commited the atrocities have converted to christianity in several instances.
************
M*W: "Several instances," does not make a statistically significant number to really matter. Dead is dead. I'm not going to hold my breath while the Islamic terrorists convert to christianity (and I am not referring here to all Muslim people).

On the otherhand, God also proves Himself through prayer.
*************
M*W: Does this include the prayers of Muslims? What if Allah hears their prayers louder and more sincere than christian prayers?

It is up to the faithful to accept either outcome.
*************
M*W: Does this include faithful Muslims and other faithful who may not pray the same prayers as christians? I would think that prayer to a god would be generic, just as meditating to oneself.

With the right attitude in prayer, it can make a difference, or at least we believe we see evidence of it.
*************
M*W: So, are you saying that some may pray the wrong way? What is a wrong way to pray? If there were a god, would he be upset if someone mispronounced a word, or lost his train of thought, or prayed after committing a sin?

Someone told me a long time ago, when I was a christian, that "god doesn't hear my prayers, because he never answers them. Am I praying the wrong way?" And, as a christian, I told her that there was no wrong way to pray, and that god was answering her prayers, but she just wasn't listening. What I told her didn't really mean anything at all. I was just bullshitting her with any old answer that came to mind. She called me a few days later and told me of her "miracle" answer from god! I am sure she found the answer herself but felt the need to give her god credit for it. All I did was give her a little bit of positive reinforcement so she could believe in herself.

Prayer takes many forms. Atheists don't pray to a god, but I believe many of us dwell on what we need to do in certain situations, and we figure it out in our own minds. Truthfully, that's as far as any "prayer" really goes at all. Call it what you want, but prayer, meditation, and wishful thinking all begin in the mind and end-up wherever they allow that thought to take them. So, now once again, and this time not as a christian, I will say that there is no wrong way to pray.

However, I am anxious to know what your definition is of having "the right attitude in prayer, and how you feel it makes a difference." Also, I'm sure many of us would like to know what you meant when you said having the right attitude in prayer that, "we believe we see evidence of it." Could you please explain your comment or list examples.

Thanks.

*************
M*W: "In the christian line of thinking," people depend on their god to take care of them, so they don't bother to take care of themselves or find out what is happening.

Look at the birds of the air; they do not sow or reap or store away in barns, and yet your dear heavenly Parent feeds them. Are you not much more valuable than they? Who of you by worrying can add a single hour to your life? (Mt. 6: 26-27)

Some people take that a little too literally.

God also proves Himself through prayer. It is up to the faithful to accept either outcome

Not really, no.

Matthew 21:22
"If you believe, you will receive whatever you ask for in prayer."

Mark 11:24
Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours.

Matthew 18:20
"Again, I tell you that if two of you on earth agree about anything you ask for, it will be done for you by my Father in heaven. For where two or three come together in my name, there am I with them."

Given these statements, the effects of prayer would be plainly obvious.

Yes, in the christian line of thinking, God can take care of His own and He knows what is happening.

If he wanted to do anything to stop it he could. If this is where you respond that he wont interfere in human affairs then there was no point you asking anyone to pray.

The martyrdom of Christians converted many Romans to Christianity. I guess Islam knows a thing or two about martyrdom, too. Ideally, the Muslims and the Christians could all martyr each other, and that would be the end of this nonsense.

feel the love.

[QUOTE=Medicine*Woman;1493765]*************
M*W: "In the christian line of thinking," people depend on their god to take care of them, so they don't bother to take care of themselves or find out what is happening.

W: As a christian I don't expect God to do for me what I can do for myself. I try to treat my children the same way so they will learn responsibility.


************
M*W: "Several instances," does not make a statistically significant number to really matter. Dead is dead. I'm not going to hold my breath while the Islamic terrorists convert to christianity (and I am not referring here to all Muslim people).

W: The point is, as a christian, dead is not dead. We believe in an afterlife.


*************
M*W: Does this include the prayers of Muslims? What if Allah hears their prayers louder and more sincere than christian prayers?

WW: no. As a christian we believe Jesus is God, and He only hears His own children and those that seek repentence. Jesus doesn't listen to prayers to the moon god of Islam, according to what christians believe.


*************
M*W: Does this include faithful Muslims and other faithful who may not pray the same prayers as christians? I would think that prayer to a god would be generic, just as meditating to oneself.

no, they do not pray the same prayers.


*************
M*W: So, are you saying that some may pray the wrong way? What is a wrong way to pray? If there were a god, would he be upset if someone mispronounced a word, or lost his train of thought, or prayed after committing a sin?

W: As a christian we believe God only hears His own children and those that seek repentence.

MW: Someone told me a long time ago, when I was a christian, that "god doesn't hear my prayers, because he never answers them. Am I praying the wrong way?" And, as a christian, I told her that there was no wrong way to pray, and that god was answering her prayers, but she just wasn't listening. What I told her didn't really mean anything at all. I was just bullshitting her with any old answer that came to mind. She called me a few days later and told me of her "miracle" answer from god! I am sure she found the answer herself but felt the need to give her god credit for it. All I did was give her a little bit of positive reinforcement so she could believe in herself.


W: no surprise here. I've heard of an atheist that lead a person to Christ just by quoting some verses out of a bible.

MW: Prayer takes many forms. Atheists don't pray to a god, but I believe many of us dwell on what we need to do in certain situations, and we figure it out in our own minds. Truthfully, that's as far as any "prayer" really goes at all. Call it what you want, but prayer, meditation, and wishful thinking all begin in the mind and end-up wherever they allow that thought to take them. So, now once again, and this time not as a christian, I will say that there is no wrong way to pray.

W: As a christian I do not believe that way.

MW: However, I am anxious to know what your definition is of having "the right attitude in prayer, and how you feel it makes a difference." Also, I'm sure many of us would like to know what you meant when you said having the right attitude in prayer that, "we believe we see evidence of it." Could you please explain your comment or list examples.

Thanks.

W: The "right attitude" is accepting all outcomes by trusting in the Lord as a good Father. The book of Job is a good example.

Not really, no.

Matthew 21:22
"If you believe, you will receive whatever you ask for in prayer."

I don't always believe in what I ask for. I give the Lord lattitude to choose what is best for me.

Mark 11:24
Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours.

This is true, and it's a chicken and egg argument. Which came first, the asking or the believing? Not that it counters your point.


Matthew 18:20
"Again, I tell you that if two of you on earth agree about anything you ask for, it will be done for you by my Father in heaven. For where two or three come together in my name, there am I with them."

Strong verses as well, and it is heard by the Lord. It is called prayer in the spirit whereby we ask in the spirit and it is received. We (fellowbelievers) can not agree unless it is in the spirit.

Given these statements, the effects of prayer would be plainly obvious.

It is obvious to a christian. We don't know what is best, but our Father in heaven does. Therefore we trust Him to deliver the right answer, even as Jesus prayed in the Garden of Gethsemene:

Mark 14:36 And he said, Abba, Father, all things are possible unto thee; take away this cup from me: nevertheless not what I will, but what thou wilt.

SL: If he wanted to do anything to stop it he could. If this is where you respond that he wont interfere in human affairs then there was no point you asking anyone to pray.

W: Sometimes He doesn't do things unless He is asked first. Other times His divine will is greater than my request, as Jesus just showed us. And sometimes the things we ask for are not good for us -- but the Lord knows what is best.

WW: no. As a christian we believe Jesus is God, and He only hears His own children and those that seek repentence. Jesus doesn't listen to prayers to the moon god of Islam, according to what christians believe.

Bullshit. Allah a "moon God"? Give me a break. From the Qur'an itself.

"Bow not yourselves to the sun and moon, but bow yourselves to God who created them, if Him you serve."

41:37 Qur'an

Besides, the moon god in pagan times was not "Allah". It was "illa", and if you know how to speak/read Arabic, the pronunciation/spelling looks completely different.

Excellent website which disproves the whole "Allah/moon God" myth: http://www.islamic-awareness.org/Quran/Sources/Allah/moongod.html

Tons of information.

Bullshit. Allah a "moon God"? Give me a break. From the Qur'an itself.

"Bow not yourselves to the sun and moon, but bow yourselves to God who created them, if Him you serve."

41:37 Qur'an

Besides, the moon god in pagan times was not "Allah". It was "illa", and if you know how to speak/read Arabic, the pronunciation/spelling looks completely different.

Excellent website which disproves the whole "Allah/moon God" myth: http://www.islamic-awareness.org/Quran/Sources/Allah/moongod.html

Tons of information.

whutever... Christians believe Jesus is God, Muslims do not. Christians believe Jesus hears their prayers. Muslims do not.

I hope this explains the difference between Christians and Muslims, and may you receive a break just like you asked for. :shrug:

whutever... Christians believe Jesus is God, Muslims do not. Christians believe Jesus hears their prayers. Muslims do not.

I agree.

I hope this explains the difference between Christians and Muslims,

They are pretty similar religions, although the view on Jesus is the main difference. Christians believe Jesus is God, whereas Muslims believe he was a Prophet.

The martyrdom of Christians converted many Romans to Christianity. I guess Islam knows a thing or two about martyrdom, too. Ideally, the Muslims and the Christians could all martyr each other, and that would be the end of this nonsense.I once read about a governor of Alexandra around the year 100 was inundated with hundreds of Christians demanding to be Martyred. He told them no.

I really do feel sorry for these Koreans. Many Korean people live sheltered lives and have no clue about the real world. I`m sure their Preacher was trying to do a good thing but really they should have never entered a Muslim country. Why didn:t they go to Africa where their help would have been appreciated.

Bullshit. Allah a "moon God"? Give me a break. From the Qur'an itself.There is some connection
The moon was worshipped all over the middle east.
The name Allah was the name of a moon God
The moon is the highest symbol on all Muslim places of worship.
The Arabs worshipped an Allah moon God and Mohammad, for a time, accepted this moon Gods daughters into the Muslim faith.

Everything has to start somewhere .... and I think there is a connection.

There is some connection
The moon was worshipped all over the middle east.
The name Allah was the name of a moon God
The moon is the highest symbol on all Muslim places of worship.
The Arabs worshipped an Allah moon God and Mohammad, for a time, accepted this moon Gods daughters into the Muslim faith.

Everything has to start somewhere .... and I think there is a connection.

Man, don't piss me off. Seriously, read this...

http://www.islamic-awareness.org/Qur...h/moongod.html

Allah is not the name as the moon god. In fact, whether or not that particular statue was even a MOON god or not is still debateable. As I said, the name was believed to be "illa", not "Allah".

This will answer all your questions on the moon's use in Islam. NOT because of a pagan god.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LHcwJ7fsT_I

Kadark,

I’m not saying you worship a moon God. Or that Muslims believe in a moon God. I’m saying that back in history moon Gods were very much a part of Middle Eastern religions. You can think of it as something that was very much in vogue before Mohammad’s time and something that had to be contended with when adapting a new faith. To completely disregard all evidence for the widespread practice of moon God worship in the ME is not being intellectually honest IMO. Again, I’m not suggesting that the God you worship is a moon God only that its reasonable to conclude some connection with preexisting moon God theology. There is also Zoroastrian, Christian, Judaism, Arab polytheism and yes even Hinduism interwoven into what you call Islam. Just read about these other religions and you will find the connections.

And its OK even for you as a Muslim because all Reformers (to cover their arses) usually say something along the lines of I’m here to correct the past inconsistencies bla bla bla and so here’s how the new fits with the old. Does this sound a little　bit familiar? Is there anything like this in your faith? I’d be shocked if you said no. Given that the Qur`an is about a 70-80% rewrite of the Torah. That much is just academic.

So, you can think of the reformer/new prophet fixed corrections as the connections I am referring to. You religion does say the Ｒｅａｓｏｎ Mohammad was here was to fix stuff right? Well its this "stuff" that I am refering to. (weren`t you ever a little curious about what this "stuff" was and where it came from?)

Anway, to say there are no connections to the past at all would be the same as saying Buddhism is not connected in any way, shape or form to Hinduism. Does that seem right?
OR
Christianity is not connected in any way, shape or form to Gnosism.
OR
Bahai` is not connected to Islam.
OR
The Judaic flood myth is not connected to the Babylonian Epic of Gilgamesh.

I`m sure if you are being intellectually honost you will agree there are connections. Just rest secure in the age old “I`m here to correct the past mistakes” line and you`ll be right mate :)

Michael

Kadark,

I’m not saying you worship a moon God. Or that Muslims believe in a moon God. I’m saying that back in history moon Gods were very much a part of Middle Eastern religions.

I am not denying that. This is definitely true.

You can think of it as something that was very much in vogue before Mohammad’s time and something that had to be contended with when adapting a new faith. To completely disregard all evidence for the widespread practice of moon God worship in the ME is not being intellectually honest IMO.

I'm not saying that at all! Of course moon gods/idols were worshipped. Muhammad himself destroyed 360 (I believe) idols in Mecca, and some could easily have been a moon God. However, none were called "Allah". The closest, "illa", and that's a very different pronunciation/spelling in Arabic.

Again, I’m not suggesting that the God you worship is a moon God only that its reasonable to conclude some connection with preexisting moon God theology. There is also Zoroastrian, Christian, Judaism, Arab polytheism and yes even Hinduism interwoven into what you call Islam. Just read about these other religions and you will find the connections.

Ugh...of course there's connections (especially with Judaism and Christianity). If there's connections with any of the other religions mentioned, it must not be of importance. Certainly, where the primary issues are concerned (monotheism, final prophet, etc), these religions disagree vehemently.

And its OK even for you as a Muslim because all Reformers (to cover their arses) usually say something along the lines of I’m here to correct the past inconsistencies bla bla bla and so here’s how the new fits with the old. Does this sound a little　bit familiar? Is there anything like this in your faith? I’d be shocked if you said no. Given that the Qur`an is about a 70-80% rewrite of the Torah. That much is just academic.

How is the Qur'an 70-80% of the Torah? You pulling these numbers out your ass, or do you have a source? Have you even read the Torah?

Kadark,

Does the Qur’an have a flood myth that involves a certain person we call Noah in English? Is this story of significance to you? While the Qur’anic story is different than the Judaic one, I would consider it 100% rewrite. Does that make sense? Do you agree? The flood theme is copied and the characters are mainly the same just the details are different. It’d be like copying Harry Potter and having Wizards and a School for Wizards but changing the story about Harry a little. Even adding completely new adventures.

It’s still copying.
Are we agreed?

The Islamic flood myth was copied from the Jewish mythos and is of polytheistic Babylonian in origin. It’s based on the Epic of Gilgamesh.

Do you agree with this?

Michael

Here this is interesting and as an apologist is pretty consistant:LiberalIslam (http://www.liberalislam.net/)

As a myth, the flood story gains the flexibility to be directly applied to the circumstances of the Muslim community; and in this way it is more useful than history. Conservatives will be alarmed at this conclusion, because they have always declared that the Qur'anic stories must be historically true. But this is simply not necessary. The truth of the Qur'an in religious terms should be determined by whether or not its stories are morally true, not historically true.

It is obvious to a christian. We don't know what is best, but our Father in heaven does.

So if your prayers fail and these people die, it's because god thought their death was the best thing for them? K.

So if your prayers fail and these people die, it's because god thought their death was the best thing for them? K.

Maybe they were selfish prayers and didn't count. :bugeye:

The headlines continue to tell us about christians being used as pawns to negotiate the release of taliban prisoners. After googling the headlines for a while, I found they are a humanitarian team from a presbyterian church in South Korea. Their pastor has already been killed.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070803/ap_on_re_as/afghanistan


http://www.christiantoday.com/article/korean.church.appeals.for.urgent.prayers.for.hosta ges/12060.htm



They do need christian prayer. They went to Afghanistan to supply humanitarian support for that war-torn country and now they are prisoners. They were not breaking any of the laws there in Afganistan, or any of the religious customs. They were simply there to help.

They were warned by the travel authorities before they went, but they said their calling as a church body requires them to go in harm's way. This team has served in several countries that needed their help. Now they need help. Please pray for them, those that believe in God.

Thank you.

Also please remember that more christians are dieing in service NOW than has ever occured in the history of the church. This is the word I am getting from the missionary authorities.


Yes the talaban are true to islam. But in the end God is true to his Word.

And God's protection does not mean protection from muslims or any other anti-christs out there. The security God offers is the eternal security with him in eternity. So the mulsims can hack the heads of all of these people and their eternal existance is still secure with God. :)

Luke 9
23 Then He said to them all, “If anyone desires to come after Me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow Me. 24 For whoever desires to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for My sake will save it.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

I really do feel sorry for these Koreans. Many Korean people live sheltered lives and have no clue about the real world. I`m sure their Preacher was trying to do a good thing but really they should have never entered a Muslim country. Why didn:t they go to Africa where their help would have been appreciated.

Do you know that Afghanistan is poorer than most African countries? Do you know that they have suffered almost 30 years of constant war? Of all the African countries maybe only Zimbabwe is in a worse condition than Afghanistan.

Jesus calls on us to love our enemies. If we just offer help to those who appreciate it or give help only to our friends then are we any better than the rest of the world? We offer assistance to the ones who hate us and would have us killed because that is the love of God. When they murder the ones who come to them in love they put a curse upon themselves.

Romans 12
17 Repay no one evil for evil. Have regard for good things in the sight of all men. 18 If it is possible, as much as depends on you, live peaceably with all men. 19 Beloved, do not avenge yourselves, but rather give place to wrath; for it is written, “Vengeance is Mine, I will repay,” says the Lord. 20 Therefore



“ If your enemy is hungry, feed him;
If he is thirsty, give him a drink;
For in so doing you will heap coals of fire on his head.”


21 Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.



All Praise The Ancient Of Days

So if your prayers fail and these people die, it's because god thought their death was the best thing for them? K.

A prayer never fails if God hears it. Gods decision is his. The success of a praying is not determined by the outcome.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

A prayer never fails if God hears it. Gods decision is his. The success of a praying is not determined by the outcome.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

Sounds like an excuse for when a prayer isn't answered. God didn't answer it because it was his plan. And if by some chance that tumor goes away (thanks radiation) or your broken leg heals (thanks doctors), then it was God watching out for you. It's a win-win! I like it.

Lame.

A prayer never fails if God hears it. Gods decision is his. The success of a praying is not determined by the outcome.

The theists security clause: If it don't work, it does work.

Needless to say, the exact same thing applies to anything - even my cup of tea. I pray to my cup of tea - sometimes I get what I ask for, sometimes I don't. When I don't, it's not that my cup of tea has failed but that ultimately the cup of tea knows best. The success of praying to a cup of tea is not determined by the outcome.

Ok, so what is 'success' determined by if not the outcome?

I think the main thing to remember here is that they are held hostage for political reasons.

Some here also struggle with the concept of free will, amongst other things.

I think the main thing to remember here is that they are held hostage for political reasons.

Some here also struggle with the concept of free will, amongst other things.


No way. LOL The muslims made sure that they quickly killed the pastor in the group. Why did they kill the Pastor? Because he was a Christian minister that's why. Politics has very little to do with it. Only last year they where going to execute a guy for embracing the message of Jesus. And he was going to be executed by the American backed authorities in Afghanistan not the talaban.

So blood thirsty islam is central to these people. They even named one of their most important mountain ranges hindukush. hundukush means Hindu killer. There are no more hindu's in the hindukush and the local muslims are proud of that and the way their forefathers went about achieving that.

I wonder if the European Alps will one day be called Kafirkush?



All Praise The Ancient Of Days

Really Adstar, you should qualify your statements:



Nomenclature

The name Hindu Kush is usually applied to the whole of the range separating the basins of the Kabul and Helmand rivers from that of the Amu Darya (or ancient Oxus), or more specifically, to that part of the range to the northwest of Kabul.

[edit] Greek

Alexander the Great conquered the region in 329 BC and it was called the Καύκασος Ινδικός or Caucasus Indicus by the Greek historians with Alexander the Great. Thus meaning 'Mountain of the Indus'. This name was used until recently by Historians worldwide. Greeks remained as rulers, administrators, or scribes in the region for many centuries. See Greco-Bactrian. It was also referred to by the Greeks as the "Paropamisos."

[edit] Arabic and Persian

In Arabic, the name means Mountains of India or Mountains of the Indus (from the Indus River)[1]. In some of the Iranian languages that are still spoken in the region; that furthermore, many peaks, mountains, and related places in the region have "Kosh" or "Kush" in their names. In the Persian language of the Sassanian period, Hindu referred to any inhabitant of Indian subcontinent (Hindustan), or Hind, rather than to followers of Hinduism as it does now. The name is also said to be a corruption of Hindu Koh, from the (modern) Persian word Kuh, meaning mountain. Rennell, writing in 1793, refers to the range as the "Hindoo-Kho or Hindoo-Kush".[citation needed]

[edit] Sanskrit

Sanskrit documents refer Hindukush as Pāriyatra Parvat. Also that the name is a corruption of Hindu-Kusha, where "kusha" in Sanskrit meens "seat". Hence it translates to 'The Seat of the Hindus'.[2]

[edit] Folk Etymology
The factual accuracy of this section is disputed.
Please see the relevant discussion on the talk page

There are others who consider this origin to be a "folk etymology", and put forward alternate possibilities for its origin[citation needed]:

* The origin of the term "Hindu Kush" (and whether it translates as "Killer of Hindu") is a point of contention. The earliest known use of this name was by the famous Muslim Berber traveller, Ibn Battūta (circa 1334), who wrote: "Another reason for our halt was fear of the snow, for on the road there is a mountain called Hindūkūsh, which means "Slayer of Indians," because the slave boys and girls who are brought from Hind (India) die there in large numbers as a result of the extreme cold and the quantity of snow."
* that the name is a corruption of Caucasus Indicus, a name by which the Hindu Kush range was known in the ancient world after its conquest by Alexander the Great in the Fourth Century BC. Greek rule in the Hindu Kush region lasted over three centuries, and was followed by the rule of a dynasty known, significantly, as the Kushan. In its early period, the Kushan Empire had its capital near modern-day Kabul. Later, when the Hindu Kush region became part of the Sassanian Empire, it was ruled by a satrap known as the Kushan-shah (ruler of Kushan).[citation needed]
* In modern Persian, the word "Kush" is derived from the verb Kushtan - to defeat, kill, or subdue. This could be interpreted as a memorial to the South Asian captives who perished in the mountains while being transported to other Central Asian slave markets.
* that the name refers to the last great 'killer' mountains to cross when moving between the Afghan plateau and the Indian subcontinent, named after the toll it took on anyone crossing them.
* that the name is a posited Avestan appellation meaning "water mountains."[citation needed]
* that the name is a corruption of Hind-o Kushan, containing the name of the Kushan dynasty that once ruled this region for more than three centuries.

they did it in korean language, to those poor and needy kids:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=ocPVnI_veOM&mode=related&search=