The USA now allows "no knock warrants." This permits police to break into a house or apartment without warning in order to arrest somebody alleged to be a criminal. The rationale is that evidence could be destroyed if the occupants were warned by a knock at the door and the announcement that law enforcement personnel were about to enter.

This led to a serious situation in Atlanta, GA. Police in plain clothes broke into the home of a 92 year old woman with no warning. She fired at them, thinking that they were criminals invading her home. She was killed by ten or more bullets.

This story was carried by AOL. Perhaps it can be found by using This story was carried by AOL. Perhaps it can be found by using Kathryn Johnston and Atlanta as search keys.

There was some mistake involved. I am not sure whether it was the wrong address or an informant who just wanted to tell a story in order to avoid further interrogation.

The police realized that an error had been made and planted some drugs in the house to cover up the fiasco. Somehow, the truth came out, resulting in jail sentences for several policemen. They were convicted of manslaughter, perjury, and other crimes related to the incident.

Congress and/or our courts should start to reestablish civil rights long granted to US citizens and stop our march in the direction of a police state.

Those against private citizens having guns might claim that the problem was due to her having a gun. The result would have been the same if she had tried to protect herself using a fireplace poker, an axe, or some other household item as the police came through her front door. If I lived in a potentially dangerous neighborhood, I would want a gun to protect myself from home invasions which are not a daily occurrence but are frequent enough to cause fear of them.

I have respect for most law enforcement personnel and consider them to be necessary and as having a difficult job. However, I do think they should be under more control than what is currently imposed on them. It only takes a few rotten apples in that barrel to cause some terrible situations. Police and the FBI the ability to cover up heinous actions due to the reluctance of other law enforcement personnel and district attorneys to act against one of their own.

The no knock warrant seems like a terrible concept, subject to all sorts of potential abuse. Another bad idea is confiscation of property alleged to be related to some criminal activity. The laws allow confiscation without getting a conviction for the crime.

An elderly couple could lose their home if their grandson grew marijuana in the basement. The grandson need not be convicted. There is no requirement to show that the grandparents knew about the marijuana. There is no defense based on the claim that the grandson was abusive and uncontrollable by them. There was a case in the Midwest resulting in the confiscation of a car due to the husband soliciting a prostitute from the car. The car was jointly owned by his wife, but it would not have mattered if she owned it outright. I suppose that if he stole it from a neighbor, the neighbor could sue to get it back.

The confiscation laws have great potential for abuse. There are few, if any, requirements for accountability of the proceeds from the sale of the confiscated property. Due to no requirements for conviction of the owner, a law enforcement official could use the confiscation laws to exact revenge against somebody he did not like with very little evidence that a crime had been committed.

A really bad aspect of the confiscation laws relate to the fact that the federal government need not act on a confiscation warrant in a timely manner. A house could be sold and then confiscated from the new owner. I do not think that title insurance would reimburse the new owner since the confiscation documentation is not available to them. I think the new owner woud have to sue the previous owner to recover his money. it would be a real night mare if the house were sold twice.

This led to a serious situation in Atlanta, GA. Police in plain clothes broke into the home of a 92 year old woman with no warning. She fired at them, thinking that they were criminals invading her home. She was killed by ten or more bullets.

This story was carried by AOL. Perhaps it can be found by using This story was carried by AOL. Perhaps it can be found by using Kathryn Johnston and Atlanta as search keys.

There was some mistake involved. I am not sure whether it was the wrong address or an informant who just wanted to tell a story in order to avoid further interrogation.

The police realized that an error had been made and planted some drugs in the house to cover up the fiasco. Somehow, the truth came out, resulting in jail sentences for several policemen. They were convicted of manslaughter, perjury, and other crimes related to the incident.



Although I share your concern about "no-knock warrants" your story, as presented above, contains factual errors. I cannot tell, of course, if the article you read was incorrect or if you simply decided to embellish the story yourself. There were NO drugs planted (none even claimed to be found) and the only convictions were manslaughter and providing false information.

For the REAL version, you might like to read the article in the following link. It was written by a local reporter in Atlanta that attended the trial: http://www.11alive.com/news/article_news.aspx?storyid=96052

Although I share your concern about "no-knock warrants" your story, as presented above, contains factual errors. I cannot tell, of course, if the article you read was incorrect or if you simply decided to embellish the story yourself. There were NO drugs planted (none even claimed to be found) and the only convictions were manslaughter and providing false information.

For the REAL version, you might like to read the article in the following link. It was written by a local reporter in Atlanta that attended the trial: http://www.11alive.com/news/article_news.aspx?storyid=96052

Not even claimed you say?

After the shooting, Smith and Junnier met and concocted the story that the informant bought cocaine at the house. They also told the informant to lie to investigators, but he later admitted that he never bought drugs at 933 Neal Street.

If the informant bought drugs at the house then there were drugs at the house. Does it matter if you plant drugs physically or in testimony? Not at all since the end result is the same.

A dead innocent woman.

http://www.11alive.com/assetpool/images/0725131427_johnston250.jpg

Not even claimed you say?



If the informant bought drugs at the house then there were drugs at the house. Does it matter if you plant drugs physically or in testimony? Not at all since the end result is the same.

A dead innocent woman.

http://www.11alive.com/assetpool/images/0725131427_johnston250.jpg

You missed the point completely. The house WAS searched for drugs and none were found. The informant HAD originally pointed the house out as one that was selling drugs. Yeah, the cops made a serious mistake when they had him say he'd actually bought some there - but my point was that NO drugs (as claimed in the original post) were "planted" at the scene.

You missed the point completely. The house WAS searched for drugs and none were found. The informant HAD originally pointed the house out as one that was selling drugs. Yeah, the cops made a serious mistake when they had him say he'd actually bought some there - but my point was that NO drugs (as claimed in the original post) were "planted" at the scene.

Read the article.

Typically, the officers would have a confidential informant go to the house and make a buy but they did not. Instead, Officer Smith went to a magistrate judge and, in order to get a no-knock warrant, lied by claiming that an informant had made a buy and that surveillance cameras were positioned outside the Johnston home.

The police lied from the beginning about drugs being in the house.

And later they made up a story and instructed the informant to lie.

After the shooting, Smith and Junnier met and concocted the story that the informant bought cocaine at the house. They also told the informant to lie to investigators, but he later admitted that he never bought drugs at 933 Neal Street.

No mistakes here. Pure intent. And honestly I cannot see how you can twist this into a 'mistake' being made.

The officers fucked up because they lied. I.e. claiming that the appartment contained drugs based on info they didn't bother to get.

Then they covered up the lies with more lies.

And killed an innocent woman in the process.

Read the article.



The police lied from the beginning about drugs being in the house.

And later they made up a story and instructed the informant to lie.



No mistakes here. Pure intent. And honestly I cannot see how you can twist this into a 'mistake' being made.

The officers fucked up because they lied. I.e. claiming that the appartment contained drugs based on info they didn't bother to get.

Then they covered up the lies with more lies.

And killed an innocent woman in the process.

I have read the article - more than once. And I consider a lie a serious mistake in judgement - and said it was serious, so I've twisted nothing.

You can spin this as many ways as you want, I simply don't care. But I agree that what the cops did was CRIMINAL and I'm very sorry that an innocent woman was killed.

I have read the article - more than once. And I consider a lie a serious mistake in judgement - and said it was serious, so I've twisted nothing.

You can spin this as many ways as you want, I simply don't care. But I agree that what the cops did was CRIMINAL and I'm very sorry that an innocent woman was killed.

You are spinning the story buddy. I am just quoting the story. You make up things like lies being serious mistakes. A lie is a lie. The woman died because of corrupt policemen and you are trying to make it look like it was all one big happy mistake.

Well, you are the lowest of the lowest. Probably an American republican.

You are spinning the story buddy. I am just quoting the story. You make up things like lies being serious mistakes. A lie is a lie. The woman died because of corrupt policemen and you are trying to make it look like it was all one big happy mistake.

I'm wondering how you know anything about what really happened? ....other than reading that story, which was written by someone who may not have known what happened or why, yet felt compelled to write anyway ...and put whatever spin he/she happened to want owing to their own bias?

And yet you believe it, then come here to make claims of police corruption with nothing in the way of evidence other than that story?

Why do you believe that story? Is it because it jives with your own bias of the world and/or the police?

Baron Max

no knock warrants are a disgrace.
if my front doors starts caving in and i have a gun in my hands you can bet your sweet ass i'm going to use it. the cops know that it's a very real possibility of them getting shot in the process.

the only thing a no knock warrant is good for is to show the american people they cannot defend their homes.

Good I hope a lot of cops get shot using this power.

leopold99,

I both agree and disagree with the no knock warrant, It requires a Judge to Issue a warrant, which is something that you liberals scream about, so it does follow the Constitution. Now lets look at a No Knock, it is issued when it is believed that evidence will be destroyed, or the individual or individuals are armed and dangerous, and that to use the normal procedure would place the serving offices at great risk. Now the bad thing is that, many time it uses informants that have agendas of their own, it is served at places were dangerous criminals reside, or were the informants have bought drugs, and there are innocent individuals living there , the informants have a grudge against the people living there, the informant just don't have the brain cells left to give the correct information were they bought the drugs. The problem for the officers is that the dangerous criminal, or drug criminals, are heavily armed, (and their possession of firearms is already illegal by law and the guns have been acquired illegally), and usually have no inhibition about using that firepower, at the knock at the door, and the announcement of Warrant. The Officer in the performance of his duty doesn't have to commit suicide to do his job, they have the right to minimize the danger to them selves, and it isn't right that innocent citizens are killed in these situations, but remember innocent officers are killed ever week when they serve normal Knock and Enter Warrants, just remember that in most of the world a warrant isn't a requirement for the police to enter you home, and take you into custody, rob you blind, beat, or kill you, and nothing will ever be done about it, I doesn't have a answer, that will make it perfectly safe for the Citizen, or the Officers, if anyone does please post it, and remember the lives of the officers are as valuable to them and their Families, as are the Lives of the Victims of a (no knock warren), to them and their families.

nietzschefan

Good I hope a lot of cops get shot using this power.

Remember the wheel of life, a evil wish is returned 4 fold to your life.
And for such a wish you would place your self and family in jeopardy?

I'm wondering how you know anything about what really happened? ....other than reading that story, which was written by someone who may not have known what happened or why, yet felt compelled to write anyway ...and put whatever spin he/she happened to want owing to their own bias?

And yet you believe it, then come here to make claims of police corruption with nothing in the way of evidence other than that story?

Why do you believe that story? Is it because it jives with your own bias of the world and/or the police?

Baron Max

Stfu if you don't have anything to say.

leopold99,

I both agree and disagree with the no knock warrant, It requires a Judge to Issue a warrant, which is something that you liberals scream about, so it does follow the Constitution.
we are not talking about how it's issued.
we are talking about how it is used.

this issue of no knock warrants pisses me off.

as for the destruction of evidence:
if a warrant is issued then the evidence in question is illegal.
the bad guys knows it's illegal.
so with that in mind do you really believe they will keep said evidence in the front room? no, they will keep in well hidden. as soon as the front door caves in the evidence will be flushed, crushed, burnt, or otherwise gotten rid of.

too bad there are no stats as to the evidence saved or destroyed.

leopold99

we are not talking about how it's issued.
we are talking about how it is used.

I thought I addressed why the no knock is used? now tell me how you would do it? and how you would protect both the lives of the Officers and the Individuals, in a absolutely perfect way? Remember I am a gun owner,and I have read about innocent gun owners that have been killed for defending their homes when a no knock has been served on false, information, and one case that I know of, a lowlife son of a bitch drug dealer, who had a personnel score to settle with the home owner reported that the home owner was a drug dealer and heavily armed, and the whole thing went to hell in a hand basket. The home owner died, the drug dealer was convicted of premeditated murder, and received 30 years in prison, the Officers involved, left the force over the self guilt, and the sad fact is that the scum bag drug dealer didn't get the death penalty, because in this state we don't have a death penalty, our lives are not important enough .
And as a last point how many no knocks are done were everything goes absolutely right? we really don't know because we don't here about those.

Now on the other hand I know a officer who served a Knock and Enter Warrant, and the individual who was wanted for armed theft of a drug dealer, (the dumb son of a bitch drug dealer went to the police to complain), shot through the door and the officer is now paralyzed from the neck down, and can't do much beyond breath and shit, so tell me the perfect answer?

leopold99

so with that in mind do you really believe they will keep said evidence in the front room? no, they will keep in well hidden. as soon as the front door caves in the evidence will be flushed, crushed, burnt, or otherwise gotten rid of.

From the discussions that I have had with my friends, who are sworn officers, city, county, state, and federal, you would be amazed at the numbers of criminals that do exactly that, leave the evidence right in the middle of the living room.

buffalo.
i don't think there are any easy answers regarding this issue.
i do however believe that if a cop gets shot while in the process of serving a no knock warrant the shooter should remain blameless.
an example of what i mean:
cop busts down someones door serving a no knock warrant.
while doing that the homeowner unloads on the cop, maybe killing him.
the homeowner HAS NO IDEA WHO is busting down their door.

the situation is 100% different serving a knock warrant.

leopold99

And what of this case were a judge refused to issue a No Knock? I have talked with a friend who was involved, and the suspect shot through the wall with a shot gun, not through the door, but the end results were the same, and there are more situations like this every month.

Now on the other hand I know a officer who served a Knock and Enter Warrant, and the individual who was wanted for armed theft of a drug dealer, (the dumb son of a bitch drug dealer went to the police to complain), shot through the door and the officer is now paralyzed from the neck down, and can't do much beyond breath and shit, so tell me the perfect answer?

I am fairly sure that the article available via the AOL Welcome screen claimed that marijuana was planted at the house. If I misread the article, I am sorry. There was no intent to emblelish. I consider the No-Knock warrants to be outrageous based on the description of what is allowed.

I wonder how many abuses go unreported by the media because nobody got killed or a coverup was successful.