Solar hot air balloons, must see...

Hi all,

As you can see I'm new to the forum. I thought I should spread the word here about solar balloons...basically, a solar balloon is a hot air balloon heated entirely by the sun. I have made many 5-foot tall balloons from only 4 trash bags, and have released many with "if found" tags attached. They have flown from 35 to 500 miles in one day, and a 10-foot balloon flew 700 miles!

I run the Web site Solar-Balloons.com - if you're interested, check it out and help spread the word. Solar balloons aren't very well known yet, so I'm starting with places like this forum to introduce them to people who may find them interesting. (I can't post links yet, so just type in the URL)

Aside from flying these hundreds of miles, I also use them on tethers to carry digital cameras for aerial photos and videos, as well as to grab attention for fun (they're great at a park or in the neighborhood, kids love them).

If this sounds interesting, check it out, and if you feel like it, email it to your friends to help spread the word.

 

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Your hobby just took out one of my $267,000 engines the other night, and I had to land in a field and truck the airplane out in pieces, you son of a bitch. (just kidding)

Do try to avoid sending anything far aloft very often, with any mass over a few grams. In daytime, I often divert to "catch" a balloon on a part of my ship that can take it without damage, like a landing wheel. This takes practice to do, and with certain passengers I don't take balloons out, but instead just see and avoid, sometimes I've given PIREPs for hazardous sky junk. Many pilots aren't so vigilant- I once watched a sizeable bunch of mylar balloons flash just over the wing of a 737 I was riding in. Don't think a garbage bag can't flame out a turbine. At least one copilot who thought he would fix a noisy door leak using a trash bag has done just that: A trash bag hitting a gas-turbine compressor section can cause real problems.

Keep in mind, a lot of us fly around at considerable speed in the clouds and dark with only some thin transparent plastic in front of our heads. The odds of getting someone hurt or killed are tiny, especially away from busy air terminals and corridors. I'm not saying don't do it- I think it sounds cool- but it bears keeping in mind launching any solar-heated balloon freeflight with a payload.

BTW I've launched a lot of model balloons, rockets, planes, etc. lately I've been flying a Multiplex Acromaster.

Oh, and here's a naughty trash-bag-balloon trick you can try at home, kids!

Take an oxy-acetylene rig, get a perfect flame going, and snuff it out. Now fill a trash bag with the mixture. Then tie a LONG section of toilet paper on, light it, and release FAR (a good 200 meters) FROM ANY WINDOWS. Then open your mouth wide, and plug your ears- It's loud.

 

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I'm "on board". I strongly believe, barring revelations in new propulsion technology, that this will be the mass, inter/trans-continental transit for a large majority of the non-elite populace.


My posts on this subject here:

Regarding pros and cons of airships:
http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?t=75067&highlight=airship

I also think that the military already has developed this stuff, from some of the more recent UFO sightings of massive size craft over Phoenix and recently in Texas.

 

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hypewaders - I have thought of the risk to aircraft, and were it any higher I would be more hesitant to release balloons. Since these balloons don't fly without sun, they shouldn't be a hazard during the night (I had a report where some kids saw one land at dusk, which suggests they cool off before sunset). Do you think putting a bit of aluminum foil on the balloon and covering it with tape (in case it hits a power line) would show up on the radar? If they could see it on the radar, they would be warned of it ahead of time. I have taped foil onto the tags before, but I don't do it all the time.

nietzschefan - I wonder if airships will ever come back? Hydrogen would be the best to fill them with, but I wonder how many people would travel in a hydrogen balloon anymore. Lots of room for solar panels on the balloon, so they could probably be solar-powered like you said.

 

How long do you think a plastic bag takes to descend from 40k'?

-I'm not saying don't do it, but it takes a while, wafting down at 20 ft/min or so...

 

Like I said, unless they come up with something even more efficient than lighter-than-air craft, it is an eventuality.

They could make them way more safe than in the Hindenburg days. Better materials and better guards against both ignition and spread of fire.

Consider also how nice solar panels work to keep the gases warm as i'm sure you know.

 

Hydrogen wasn't the cause of the Hindenburg crash, we learn that in high school chem now.

 

Static discharge would not have been so hazardous if the lifting gas had been inert. If the US had sold Germany the helium that Hindenburg was originally designed for, she could not possibly have burned as she did. A key link in the accident chain was the Helium Control Act (1927) that had been guarding a US monopoly on commercial helium. Germany was left with no choice other than gambling with hydrogen, for floating airships in that era.

 

catman529: "Do you think putting a bit of aluminum foil on the balloon ... would show up on the radar?"

No.

The radar aboard airliners and sophisticated private aircraft illuminates precipitation (and sometimes large geographic features) but never aircraft. Uplinked radar data from the ground is now making airborne weather radar obsolete, but that doesn't paint aircraft either. Neither of these sources display other aircraft, and they don't warn the crew of small airborne objects ahead.

For traffic alerts, advanced (more expensive) aircraft are often equipped with TCAS, but such systems only detect transponder-equipped aircraft. Likewise, ATC (aviators' next-best resource after the "Mk VII Eyeball" which everyone has for collision alerts) does not routinely monitor "skin paint" radar returns because of clutter, and equipment limitations: They primarily watch transponder returns, and sometimes precipitation. Miniscule and weak "primary" returns such as what would be intermittently reflected by a small piece of aluminum are typically filtered out of the radar network as noise.

Military air search and targeting radar operate on differing bands and power levels, and might see your small reflector- but again, you're presenting a very small return with a single small piece of foil. That's why military "chaff" (foil decoys and screens) are made up of fairly dense little clouds comprised of long strands of foil.

So in reality, tin foil or mylar on a high-altitude balloon would do very little for collision avoidance. The primary defense is the eyes of the pilot(s), which in high-altitude flight are not normally fixed straight ahead. At 300 knots or more, it's doubtful that a small balloon could be recognized and avoided in time, even if a pilot (and again this would be odd cruising at high altitude) were constantly looking straight ahead into the blue with his/her hands actually on the flight controls. At night, collision avoidance from one of your descending solar balloons is strictly dependent on the "big sky, small aircraft" collision-probability principle.

I think the risks to aircraft posed by small solar balloons are small; much smaller than the hazard of birdstrikes. But if someone happens upon one of your balloons at high altitude and speed, it's not likely that they will see and avoid. One of the reasons fast aircraft don't normally travel at maximum speeds at low altitude is because birds often get in the way- and without an armored windshield, a small birdstrike can easily be fatal. So except for military aircraft with tougher skin and differing regulations, we only go fast higher than birds like to be (also because it's much more fuel-efficient for gas turbines way up there).

In the unlikely but possible (nearly inevitable, given enough chances?) event a that even a very light balloon payload were to impact the windshield or engine of an aircraft at speed, it really could cause some unsuspecting fliers a very bad day (or night). I'm not saying beware (don't ever launch a balloon) so much as be aware (know what you're doing/risking).

"...covering it with tape (in case it hits a power line)"

Tape over foil would do next to nothing to prevent arcing at power transmission-line voltages. That's why they don't bother with an insulating coating on high-tension wires, but instead use huge air gaps, and long insulators at the towers.

 

I might just have a go at that. I always had a fascination with flying toys as a kid, balsa wood gliders, and rubber band powered propeller planes, bungee launched gliders, etc.

I've been looking at intro level RC planes recently too. A few refuse bags and some tape seems to be a nice simple way of getting back into flying. I think the tetroon looks like a nice easy start. Maybe if it's sunny this weekend I'll knock one together.

 

I have both of these which I occasionally fly.

http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXMSH8&P=0

http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXPZT9&P=0

The DR-1 is pretty hard to take-off and land without nosing over or having a wingtip catch, but it sure looks great in the air! The D-VII on the other hand, flies very well and is quite stable. The new style out-runner brushless engines and LiPo battery combo's are fantastic, lightweight, longer lasting, and powerful.

If you don't want to build and just want to fly, an RTF (Ready to Fly) might be right up your alley:

http://www.hobby-lobby.com/mustang.htm

 

Nice planes, ... of course, being a Brit I'd have to have a Spitfire, but the ready to fly one I've seen is in the same series as the Mustang, and a total beast with a similar wingspan. I think I need to start smaller!

I was thinking of a ducted fan model to start with, no props sticking out to break etc, and they can be had for very little money, and I guess that's a good place to start, until I have my eye in.

 

I picked up an Esky Flight sim and practiced before going out.

http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-USB-RC-ESKY-HELICOPTER-AIRPLANE-FLIGHT-SIMULATOR_W0QQitemZ180288230603QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item180288230603&_trkparms=72%3A1163|39%3A1|66%3A2|65%3A12|240%3A1318&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14

There are more expensive flight sims for RC's but this one did the trick. It saved me from crashing my RC planes, which you WILL do.

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I have been flying RC for about a year and a half. Started with the Air Hogs Aero Ace, then got a Wing Dragon 4ch RTF trainer and beat that thing up. I made a couple bigger planes from scratch (not quite as big as the WD4 though) and tore them apart after getting tired of them. Now I'm thinking of getting some new batts for my Tx and getting out the guts and building a new plane. I still haven't decided whether I want to make an easy-flying floater or fast jet/stunt plane. The setup currently consists of 2 180 brushed motors with a 6ch Rx, 30a ESC and 2S lipo. Whenever I pick up some AA batteries and some good foam I'll smack together another plane.

 

Topic is very interested.
.....................
steven

 

I really love the idea of solar balloon travel. As you said, solar panels would go well with it, especially when considering that NASA developed a material which is quite thin but its a solar sheet, rather than a panel! It would be perfect for a balloon to be layered in that!

Damn that would be kick ass! One problem though, gusty winds.... weather would have to be PERFECT.... but thats how balloon travel is anyway? Unless you go WAY up in the atmosphere right?

REALLY fun idea!!!

 

Yes I like it catman529; It's very nice.......

 

I also think so.:m: