Smoking a Cigarette

Hmmmm, they were lying. You don't really want unethical employees. And do you really want employees stupid enough to smoke at work when they have signed papers saying they didn't? But it seems a bit extreme. Why not just charge them the extra money all the way back to when they signed the paperwork?


Whirlpool suspends 39 workers, says they lied about smoking

A Whirlpool Corp. factory in Evansville, Ind., has suspended 39 workers who signed insurance paperwork claiming they don't use tobacco and then were seen smoking or chewing tobacco on company property. Now, some could be fired for lying, company spokeswoman Debby Castrale said.

As annual health care premiums rise more than 10 percent a year, many companies are trying to rein in costs by encouraging healthy living.

"I can't think of a client of ours who has not shifted their focus to controlling the cost of their health care plan," said Indianapolis benefits lawyer Mike Paton.

Some employers have developed wellness programs to motivate employees, while others ask employees to state on benefits forms whether they use tobacco.

Whirlpool, based in Benton Harbor, Mich., uses financial incentives to encourage U.S. workers and their dependents to abstain from tobacco use, spokeswoman Jill Saletta said. The specifics vary according to location.

In Evansville, the 1,500-employee factory charges tobacco users an extra $500 in annual health insurance premiums. The refrigerator factory has levied the extra premium since 1996, and it depends on employees to honestly fill out forms. It doesn't mandate blood tests to detect nicotine or trail employees outside work, Castrale said.

Management suspended the 39 employees Friday after they were spotted using either chewing tobacco on company property or taking a drag in one of the factory's dozen shelters for outdoor smoking, Castrale said....

 

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How do they know that they were smokers before they signed the papers. Maybe they just started, that wouldn't be lying. If its possible.

 

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Another example of who's really in control of the US economy: the lawyers.

 

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wow great to see how much power corperations in the US have over there employee's. Slave labor at work

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I must use this to show how Marx was right the next time im writing up a sociology essay

 

The issue is with the health insurance.

Most health insurance providers charge a dramatically different rate for smokers vs. non-smokers.

You can thank the anti-tobacco lobby for this.

And if the workers hadn't lied about smoking in the first place, then there wouldn't be an issue.

 

ben if you had universal health care it wouldnt matter ANYWAY so blame the AMA and the republicans for making you all slaves

 

blah blah blah. I'll take less than 50% income tax thank you very much.

 

ben we pay no where near 50% income tax

 

You're not in the top tax bracket.

 

Umm you STILL dont pay 50% even in the top tax bracket

here are the tax brackets

Taxable income
Tax on this income

$1 – $6,000
Nil

$6,001 – $30,000
15c for each $1 over $6,000

$30,001 – $75,000
$3,600 plus 30c for each $1 over $30,000

$75,001 – $150,000
$17,100 plus 40c for each $1 over $75,000

$150,001 and over
$47,100 plus 45c for each $1 over $150,000

Do i have any sympathy for people in the top tax bracket who if they have an income of $150 000 pay less than 1/3 of there income? No i dont, People in that bracket have enough scehems they use to get out of the tax they are SURPOSED to pay as it is

 

Ahh right. A third of their income plus 45%? That's fair.

I dunno---it didn't work so well for the Germans...

 

it works VERY well in canada, NZ, Australia, England, France ect

Infact the ONLY industrilised nation that doesnt have universal health care is drum roll.......... THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, land of the free,

Or rather it should be home of the slaves. They should really rewrite the poem on the statue of liberty to

Bring us your tired, your poor, your huddled masses who we can demorilise to the point that they work as slaves till the day they die and are thankfull for it.

The way the US treats its citizans sickens me. Its the ultimate example of Marixist theory

 

Now you're just confusing the issue. You said that you didn't feel sympathy for the top tax bracket because they found ways to get out of paying it. Is that how all Australians feel?

 

well its not the way the ritch feel about it is it?

Most of us who dont live in torkac are a little peved with the atitude that because you can aford an acountant then you dont pay tax. MOST of us accept that tax's are nessary in order for goverments to go about there primary roll of service delivery

Thats why the libatarian party couldnt get any votes in the last election, even less than the right wing nutcase party known as the national shooters party

Socialisum isnt a dirty word here you know. The cold war is over and the rest of the world realised that nither side was right and a middle aproch was better. The US is still clinging to an atitude of screw the little man which went out in the middle ages in the rest of the world.

I dont know who this quote is from, he was a british labor politision though. If you want the origional quote, watch "sicko".

"The british goverment realised that during the war there was full employment and said if we can have full employment by killing people we can have it by helping people and so they created the NHS"

He went on alot about demololising populations and keeping them uneducated so that you can use fear to control them too which is born out not just in the practical example of the US but also in the sociology lituriture im studying.

Actually that whole movie sickened me, the old man in his 70's forced to work because medicare doesnt cover his expences. The young man who was forced to chose which fingers he wanted retached because he couldnt afored $60 000 for one and $12 000 for the other.

I have a few questions

Did you watch sicko?

And the second one
Does it make you feel proud that you not only dump so much debt on people at the begining of there lives but that you withold health care when it could really help?

Did you feel proud watching that widow talking about how the health insurance wouldnt pay for a bone marrow transplant to save the life of a young father?

Did it make you proud that a guy had to chose which finger ment more to him?

Did it make you proud watching that 70 year old working when he should be out enjoying life?

Did it make you proud watching that middle aged couple having to move in with there children because there health care costs (and rember they HAD insurance) were so high they lost there house?

Did it make you proud that you rank the lowest in the first world on infant mortality EVEN when you take into acount the apaling state of aborigional health?

Did it make you proud that CUBA, home of the devil and blockaded by YOUR ships has a better health care system than the US?

Did it make you proud that in the 3rd world a child has a better chance of living to escape infantcy than in the US?

God bless america

 

Don't pay tax or don't pay as much tax? Rich people spend money too. If rich people didn't hire accountants, who would? (Because I'm sure you will take the last remark in a manner other than it was intended, I feel the need to explain to you that it was meant in the broadest possible context.)

Odd...because it's the little man who votes. Near as I can figure, the country is made up of MOSTLY little men. Whether you want to admit it or not, most Americans are Christian, most are conservative, and most hate it when bitchy foreigners tell them how shitty their country is, or what they should or shouldn't be doing, or how they're ruining the world. And most Americans voted for Bush. Twice.

Asguard---let me point out a few of your misconceptions. Obviously I don't know about whatever exceptional cases you've found, but a few direct rebuttals. I will be the first to admit that the American system is not without its flaws, but there are flaws in all health care systems.

What do you mean enjoying life? Does a person have the right to retire if he can't afford it? Should the government PAY for you NOT TO work? Does working mean that you don't enjoy life? If that's the case then you're in the wrong job man. Retirement is a privlege earned by working hard and saving money---if you haven't worked hard or saved money, then you shouldn't retire.

Which third world country would that be? Cuba? Israel? Canada? New Zealand? And if you'd bother to check your numbers, you'd find that the US is more or less even with the European Union in these figures

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_infant_mortality_rate

I think I'll trade universal healthcare for freedom to choose my political party, thank you.

 

scared, demolised and under educated, the perfect way to control people. Did you ever watch sicko?

Pay close atention the the English polition because he knows what hes talking about

 

A well-structured and gramatically correct rebuttal. Good job!

 

sarcasium will get you no where.

Its 2 very simple questions

1) did you watch the movie sicko
2) did it make you feel proud to be an american?

 

Ahh I beg to differ sir!

If you have to let Michael Moore make your points for you, then maybe I should find another conversation. No, Asguard, I didn't watch his movie.

 

then i sugest you do

Or you could go out and do the resurch yourself of course. I could sugest you get some epidemological data on morbitiy and mortality rates in the US compared to Fance, England and Canada for starters. Then do some resurch into social theory, focusing on the wealfare state and economic rationalisum.

Basically yes Moore was trying to prove a point and yes his examples were there to PROVE his point, if you wish to DISPOVE it get his sorces and show where they were wrong. Come on, you claim to be a scientist. Use the scientific method for a change on something OTHER than maths and physics.

I would also sugest you look up the social determinates of health.

Prove me wrong, show me that having a compleatly privatised health care system is better for the WHOLE population than having universal health coverage. If you can i would be grateful, i can use it in my sociology resurch to show that the WHO and all the social theorists were wrong. That BenTheMan has more knowlage of health policy and even economic policy than every industrlised nation on earth (except the US of course)