The title is self expressant.
The question is,
"Are mentally ill people..."
and it follows, compare/contrast,
with,

relating them with normal people. As in, if they, the mentally ill, are somehow fault, rather, somehow... wrong. Of course, this considers that the mentally ill, is simply the sort which goes down to the level of madness.

If you notice a flaw in my type, please tell me about it.
The question, relating it with madness and following my "logic" if it is "logic"; is that madness ...
God.
Do you see what i'm saying?

Basically, "are mentally ill people at fault to reality related people"
And, a discussion of this question, so that I can see for myself, the advantages of normality?
anyone?
Brent

MENTALLY ILL????

first you must define it..... which is very hard to do...

its easy to say... mentally ill... but if you cant name the illness..

is a it an illness???

or a condition... brought on by circumstances and suffering in this life?

-MT

The line of questioning was simple, as stated:
can we ignore mentally ill people, in such regards that they haven't taken responsibility (is one "correct wording"); although, the first post says it much better...

I suppose though you may be right.
I don't know, what you think? no objection, or anything?

My bad. "Mentally ill" would be those persons suffering from ..
dang. got me. abnormality, irrational functioning. I suppose....

Did he get me?

Are you a newage poet, brent?

Maybe I'm just dumb but I'm not quite sure what you are talking about Brent lol

Exactly.. the point of my post Reptile. I have been clueless for weeks.

TO ASSUME.... a person... any person.. is mentally ill...

we would have to assume that the so called normals.... ARE NOT MENTALLY ILL.

that... is highly debatable...


one must remember.... where we, humans... came from..

the wild...

and as such.. it would be very beneficial for us to ...

BE PARANIOD...

BE UNTRUSTFUL..

TO BE OVERLY CAUTIOUS...

TO BE SUSPICIOUS OF EVERYTHING...

IN A MODERN WORLD... all these states of mind.. are justified..

based on 10,000 years of evil.. of murder... of greed.. of stabbing others in the back....

its a fucked up world.... is it any wonder that some people.. cant deal with it..

or..

simply dont want to anymore... its easier.. to just be crazy.. and not care.

much easier.

-MT

Basically, "are mentally ill people at fault to reality related people"
And, a discussion of this question, so that I can see for myself, the advantages of normality?
anyone?
Brent

Did you ever see the inside of a hospital for the mentally insane?

I am talking about people willing to stare for hours at the noise on TV set not tuned into a channel, and smearing their shit on walls for want of anything better to do with themselves.

Would you rather have them round at your place to entertain you?

--- Ron.

Are you a newage poet, brent?
Allow me a second, to bring back together a peice I said above,
And, a discussion of this question, so that I can see for myself, the advantages of normality?

Sorta simple. My question's not so not obvious or anything. Maybe it is, i don't know... I know thou, that the point here ^^above is just the right question.
For those saying i'm dumb, well, figure THAT out by yourselfs :)
Anyway,

It is sometimes difficult for me to get out what I want to say I guess. I'm no newage poet though. I'm a new-age-rocker. :bugeye:


Anyway... ***"and, a discussion of this question, so that I can see for myself, the advantages of normality?" surely, I must admit; to sounding rather new-age-poet-ish.
And:

For those who don't know me, see the thread,
in the free thoughts,
Mental health and the existentialists: III, in which on page 2, you can find out most.
Also, I am 20 yr old, with issues, my "poet" style is actual from lack of ability to function properly in real life, I'm going through some tough shit.

Fuckin stinks..
Regardless, as I've said before, I believe that my above importance in blue is valid. Not sure though, if someone'd like ta try and help me
:confused:
Brent

Did you ever see the inside of a hospital for the mentally insane?
Fortunately (or unfortunately?)---no..

I am talking about people willing to stare for hours at the noise on TV set not tuned into a channel, and smearing their shit on walls for want of anything better to do with themselves.
That is sad you aren't really wrong there.

Would you rather have them round at your place to entertain you?
I didn't get your point?

I didn't get your point?

Is it a fault to sit and stare at nothing, to smear shit on the walls?

You tell me.

--- Ron.

Is it a fault to sit and stare at nothing, to smear shit on the walls?

You tell me.

--- Ron.
Now, why the hell should I?

I personally believe, it IS, actually, a fault, to sit and stare at nothing. I don't see your point.
To smear shit on walls, gotta suck :p

Is it a fault to sit and stare at nothing, to smear shit on the walls?

You tell me.

--- Ron.

when a person.... who accepts that life sucks... and doesnt care anymore..

is locked up... he may throw urine, and smear shit on the walls.

but if that same person... was in his own home..
and was somehow comfortable there... with money and friends..

that same person would never smear shit on his walls.



beliefs... are the first issue... they lead to attitudes...
attitudes.. lead to decisions....

and our decisions are our behavior.

if he believes that life sucks... hes scum and worthless.. and that he hates his enviorment... HE WILL HAVE A BAD ATTITUDE....

and when bored... he may make any number of decisions...

especially to piss off others... like smearing shit on the walls.


prisoners... in jail.. i hear... often cover 'themselves' with their own shit.


cover their own body!!!! and why???? TO PISS OFF THE GUARDS who are coming to take them away somewhere....

the guards... understandibly... dont like it.


-MT

my question is actually something like that. it's "can or should they be ignored".
can we forget them.
why.

please pour out your reasons, oh intelligent(s)

Did you ever see the inside of a hospital for the mentally insane?

I am talking about people willing to stare for hours at the noise on TV set not tuned into a channel, and smearing their shit on walls for want of anything better to do with themselves.

Would you rather have them round at your place to entertain you?

--- Ron.

Would you like to be placed with them because someone disagrees with your politics, your religious beliefs, or your sexuality? How about being put with them because you are victim of constant bullying and can't take the stress?

Metakron, nice to hear from you---tell me please have you been to one? I am confused to this,
just curious.

This doesn't seem to be quite safe enough an environment to admit something like that.

Who is crazy? The person who has odd beliefs and perceptions, or the person who mistreats people for having those odd beliefs and perceptions?

THERE is a cable show... tv funhouse... a bunch of fake puppet animals...

hilarious.. i love that show... in that show.. there is a monkey.

he has, ii remember.. a couple times... has thrown shit.

as monkeys are known to do.... it was hilarious.

now... everytime i think of throwing my shit at someone... it automatically strikes me as being a very funny thing to do... because my mind flashes threw all relative memories... and what do i find?? quickly remember??? alot of comedy.

haha... is what i remember... and so.. if i was impulsive, drunk and stupid, i might actually throw shit at people... so look out.

that is what i believe is the source of most problems.

ideas.. were put into the mind.... burned in... by being so memorable.

life tramas.... experiences... tramatic ones.... great days.. great moements..

bad moments... terrible times.. moments....

those are the things that shape the mind, by shaping the memory of the mind.

the memory is instantanious... i.e.. brain flash.. .
1) position happens.... possiblities..
2) ideas swirl... the ones actally do-able line up...
3) selection and re-analyisis... (indecision)(hesitation)
4) action... examination.. re-check position.

in this way.. when in a rage... if i have access to shit... and my hated enemy is near... the idea of throwing shit would be high on my list of things i can do.

but if i have no shit, and i am wearing a nice silk suit... then having to bend down and shit into my hand to get shit, is not high on this the list of actions to take.


insanity.. can come in many forms.. but generally due to bad habits, and bad experiences, and alot of bad moments, the relative programing that a given human may have developed can be very schewed.. or slanted.. bent and warped...
but it is not there fault...
deteremining what proposals our minds put forth in given situations,, allows you and me... anyone.. to self analyse the mind...

i.e.. when you look at something.. what throughts does your mind go threw...??

if i say... apple pie. you mind flashes threw all experiences you remember about eating it.... smelling it.. making it.. and things that have happenned around it.
one of which might be suger..

you may have been tramatised by sugar..

thus instantly.. the mention of apple pie, made you think of what its made of.
and you thought of sugar.. and instantly.. that sugar trama is resurfaced.

what you do, about your constantly resurfacing tramas... is our sanity.

-MT

interesting stuff.
thanks guys.
i had wanted conversation about the simple question presented by me.

i'll watch, keep goin...

None of us are perfect, therefore there's something flawed about all of our thinking. There is a point where it becomes a problem for society, and a point where it becomes a problem for the individual, and these points rarely coincide I think, except when there's been a sucessful effort made to make them. I'm not sure these deeper flaws should be medicalized, let alone medicated. Perhaps they're more of a philosophical problem. Yes, we can observe the brain now, see that it behaves abnormally, but can we see what makes it do so? Can we know that anything we are seeing is a cause and not a effect? There's a quote from somewhere which seems relevant, along the lines that if our brains were simple enough for us to understand, we wouldn't be bright enough to understand them. And of course there is a distinction between high intelligence gone haywire, and the inability to achieve a high level of thought in the first place. I've run out of rambling for now...that really is all I'm doing, I don't understand any of this. The problem is that I don't think anyone does, and there's a lot of people pretending they do.

thanks, yensen.
Question, which you got around, is actually "can the mentally ill be advoided" as far as goes sanity.

the question is more complicated than that but it's hard to describe.
For the sane person, can we ignore the mentally ill as unstable and un-proper. Are they entirely useless.

Not the persons themselfs.

Someting else.
Care to speak?

What exactly constitutes "a problem for society"?

the persons inability to act.
in that case the person is a problem...?

Mentally ill people as a class are not useless. There are some useless among them of course, probably more than in most other groups. And useless is such a loaded concept anyway. What are any of us good for, if you get right down to it? This is what I mean by it being a philosophical problem.

Funny, I thought it would be easy to sit down and define being a problem for society. I suppose it's when one affects enough people negatively, or affects one person negatively enough. If you set that invisible line at a high enough extreme, you don't include people who are simply unpleasant.

I'm aware that by that definition, you could call evil a kind of mental illness. And I have heard it called so before.

I have a feeling I'm not quite understanding, or answering your question about uselessness, brent. It's too obvious that mental illness doesn't necessarily make a person more useless than the rest of us. Sorry to post so many times in a row, I'll try and stop now ;)

No no i appericate it.
I'm not so well off myself..

agreed however that you set my point to a less degree, than my "already concieving to be" perception of the question askes for. But you know, I had posted this thread a long time ago. It isn't like I care so much. I sort of wanted to sit it down, maybe it's wrong I don't know, but I had wanted to. It was in my head.

Now i've forgot. I could probably remember if I scan back over.

It is somewhere along the lines of, for my own sake, is it a useless idea to consider that mentally unhealthy is wrong.

that, is the question.
I hope it actually gets debated.
I think that's it.
i'm kinda slow,
pardon me.

Hey Brent *smile*
Nice thread.
Kind of touches on shit I am wondering about too.

I don't know if it's "wrong"... I wish I did.. But I know that you can't take all the blame on your self unless you are unwilling to adapt to society and are harmful to the whole. In insect colonies and many mammal colonies any creature harming the whole is "deleted" (ha-ha)
Humans are different.
How ever, if it weren't for "mentally ill" people there is a lot of artistic things that would not have happened. Like when the Pharaoh laid against the Sphinx and Dreamt of the Pyramid being built, and how he would be the first pharaoh.. that was "insane" as far as our definition of it comes across, but with out that, then the Pyramids would have never been created.
Jesus and Other prophets would be considered ( and may have been even back then) as "Insane"... But look what they accomplished. When you break down serial killers, you find that they are not only "sane" by definition, but usually brilliant thinkers. People who's "actions" were insane more so then what they did or thought about out side the killings.

I guess the thing is this, we all have a degree of insanity, what deems harmful is the actions of that insanity.

As for society. I think they are more paranoid about insanity and are to quick to jump on "insane" and "medication"... so much of the mental illnesses out there are actually over reactions and a way for pharmaceutical companies to gain profit.
You find when reading about mental illnesses that "it's wrong! here's a pill." And little is considered about "if it will happen again"...
The secret. The big dirty secret, is that no one knows who is mentally ill until the person acts out. Because it's the only way that any one will "know"..
If people were scanned for mental illness like we scan for cancer and other shit, then there is this stigma about being mentally ill.. So still, an out burst has to happen. We forget who's actually just pissed and normal compared to who will act out again. The idea is to stop any outbursts that happen.
The thing is though, they have to happen more then once to actually be a "true" mental illness... But people forget that.
I'm going on, but the thing I think is It's wrong on both ends. Not enough is known.
So the degree of mental illness is what assess wrong compared to right. There are people out there with full blown schizophrenia who lead successful social lives. And there are people like Bush who are obviously insane being deemed as Sane.

So, as to your question, is mentally unhealthy wrong. No. Actions from the insanity that harm others, is wrong. But the illness as a whole doesn't make the person "wrong"... They should be commended if they can lead "normal" lives while battling their own demons.

And hey, your not "slow" in my eyes damn it.
Is the Avatar a Photo of you??

ps in free thoughts,
the thread "Can you see me?"
is a thread for my avatar, it started out bad, nexus helped me ;)

I have sent PHP a Private Message to appoligise.
Can I please be left alone now.

She can send it to you if she wants.