What exactly is silicon, how can it live, and do you think it does somewhere in space?

Also I wonder whether life might exist on Jupiter, do you think it might? Some kinda giant jellyfish or somethin?

Silicon is an element - 2nd most common on earth. It is present in all rock, sand, etc. It has some chemical similarities to carbon, so science fiction writers sometimes imagine silicon based life analogous to ordinary (carbon based) life.

Here is a lump of pure, native silicon;
http://www.galleries.com/minerals/elements/silicon/silicon.jpg
but silicon is rarely found in the pure state in nature. Usually it is found as a hard compound, like silicon dioxide (glass or quartz) or a silicate with metals such as feldspar. Most of the rocks of the Earth consist of mostly silicon compounds.

One problem I can see with the idea of silicon based life is that the equivalent of carbon dioxide which we carbon-based life-forms breathe out easily as part of our metabolism, would in a silicon -based life-form would be silicon dioxide, which is solid. Instead of exhaling CO2 a silicon based creature would be spitting out lumps of glass or quartz.

On the other hand, Self replicating Machines that is to say, a series of machines which are capable of collecting material and building new copies of themselves autonomously might be considered a form of life.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-replicating_machine

Such machines might consist at least partly of silicon, particularly in the control systems. If ancient alien civilisations decided to release such self-replicators long ago, these machines might be the most common form of self-replicating consistency in the universe, more common than carbon based life.

So silicon, or partly silicon-based life may be the most common form of life in the cosmos, but that doesn't mean it evolved naturally.

Silicon based life is a pretty big leap from just plain silicon.

It is also a large jump from plain carbon (graphite, soot-black, daimond) to carbon based lieforms. But that leap is possible because of carbon's tendency to form multiple links with other atoms, forming complex molecules.
Silicon is just about the only other element which can form such complex molecule chains; silicones and silanes are examples.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Silicon_compounds
They are often solid or rubbery at room temperature; I think it is likely that silicon biochemistry would work best at higher temperatures.

Here is David Darling on the subject
http://www.daviddarling.info/encyclopedia/S/siliconlife.html

They are often solid or rubbery at room temperature; I think it is likely that silicon biochemistry would work best at higher temperatures.

This is really interesting idea. Do you know anything more about this?

This is from that website:

"Conceivably, some strange life-forms might be built from silicone-like substances were it not for an apparently fatal flaw in silicon's biological credentials. This is its powerful affinity for oxygen. "

So, basically, if a Silicon based organism breathed oxygen, then it would end up having to deal with a lot of sand.

But what if it didn't breath oxygen? What are the biological arguments why we expect life to need oxygen?

cool website!

So, basically, if a Silicon based organism breathed oxygen, then it would end up having to deal with a lot of sand.

I do believe that there are (carbon) fish that can not breath unles their swimming or are in a moving water current.
Silicon lifeform could perhaps be slimy? Annyway I believe the entire point is that the silicon behaves like carbon so it's true that there are other ways of breathing besides oxygen like sulpher for example.

Here is a list of the atoms and there polar response, atoms marked CS are responsive to the cosmic background(cosmis sensitive), those marked GS are galaxtic sensitive and those SS are solar sensitive.
The support sturcture of humans is entirely SS, you can equate the atoms of the chart in there group with there function in the human body or other life on our planet to asses how there senstiveibty organizes to form life.
In general any of the SS group would act as a support for life, subject to abundance and selection.
If the satilite STARDUST has brought back life from a comet, i would have to assume that such life was based on a heavy atom, given the chart the defintion of tungsten seems to be near that of carbon, and in a atmosphere with the lack of gravity tungsten therefor seems like it would be the choice element for life on a coment, however i have no idea of the precentage of tungesten found in coments.

The chart appllies through out the Galaxy, for example you can exspect that the support structure of a life form in our galaxy to fall in the SS group, and the medium of such a life form, meaning fluid, transfereing fluids,chemical lift to fall in the CS group.


THE GALAXTIC PERIODIC CHART OF THE ELEMENTS, by DwayneD.L.Rabon
CS -16 ARGON
CS 2.660 BROMINE (GS)
CS 1.720 CHLORINE
CS -47 FLOURINE
CS -99 HELIUM
CS -86 HYDROGEN
CS 1.160 KRYPTON
CS 2.330 MERCURY (GS)
CS -75 NEON
CS -37 NITROGEN
CS -45 OXYGEN
CS 2.020 RADON (GS)
CS 1.620 XENON
GS 9.330 ALUMINIUM
GS 9.030 ANTIMONY
GS 8.090 ARSENIC
GS 5.750 ASTATINE
GS 10.00 BARIUM
GS 8.150 BISMUTH
GS 5.940 CADMIUM
GS 10.71 CERIUM (SS)
GS 3.010 CESIUM
GS 10.95 EUROPIUM (SS)
GS 3.000 FRANCIUM
GS 3.020 GALLIUM
GS 4.290 INDIUM
GS 3.860 IODINE
GS 6.000 LEAD
GS 4.530 LITHIUM
GS 9.230 MAGNESIUM
GS 9.170 NEPTUNIUM
GS 3.170 PHOSPHORUS
GS 9.130 PLUTONIUM
GS 5.270 POLONIUM
GS 3.360 POTASSIUM
GS 9.730 RADIUM
GS 3.120 RUBIDIUM
GS 4.530 SELENIUM
GS 3.700 SODIUM
GS 10.50 STRONTIUM (SS)
GS 3.860 SULFUR
GS 7.220 TELLURIUM
GS 5.770 THALLIUM
GS 5.040 TIN
GS 10.92 YTTERBIUM (SS)
GS 6.920 ZINC

SS 13.24 ACTINIUM
SS 14.49 AMERICIUM
SS 13.23 BERKELIUM
SS 15.60 BERYLLIUM
SS 23.48 BORON
SS 11.15 CALCIUM
SS 11.73 CALIFORNIUM
SS 37.73 CARBON
SS 21.80 CHROMIUM
SS 17.68 COBALT
SS 13.57 COPPER
SS 16.18 CURIUM
SS 16.85 DYSPROSIUM
SS 11.33 EINSTENIUM
SS 18.02 ERBIUM
SS 18.00 FERMIUM
SS 15.86 GADOLINIUM
SS 12.11 GERMANIUM
SS 13.37 GOLD
SS 25.06 HAFNIUM
SS 17.47 HOLMIUM
SS 27.19 IRIDIUM
SS 18.11 IRON
SS 11.91 LANTHANIUM
SS 19.00 LAWRENCIUM
SS 19.36 LUTETIUM
SS 15.19 MANGANESE
SS 11.00 MENDELEVIUM
SS 28.96 MOLYBDENUM
SS 12.94 NEODYMIUM
SS 17.28 NICKEL
SS 27.50 NIOBIUM
SS 11.00 NOBELIUM
SS 33.06 OSMIUM
SS 18.27 PALLADIUM
SS 20.41 PLATINUM
SS 12.04 PRASEODYMIUM
SS 13.15 PROMETHIUM
SS 18.45 PROTACTINIUM
SS 34.59 RHENIUM
SS 22.37 RHODIUM
SS 27.07 RUTHENIUM
SS 13.47 SAMARIUM
SS 18.14 SCANDIUM
SS 16.87 SILICON
SS 12.34 SILVER
SS 32.90 TANTALUM
SS 24.30 TECHNETIUM
SS 16.29 TERBIUM
SS 20.23 THORIUM
SS 18.18 THULIUM
SS 19.41 TITANIUM
SS 36.95 TUNGSTEN
SS 14.08 URANIUM
SS 21.83 VANADIUM
SS 17.95 YTTRIUM
SS 21.28 ZIRCONIUM

% Precentages of the earths crust/ earth

Oxygen 46.43% CS
Silicon 27.77% SS
Aluminum 8.14% GS
Iron 5.12% SS
Calcium 3.62% SS
Magnesium 2.09% GS
Sodium 2.85% GS
Potassium 2.60% GS
Hydrogen 0.127% CS
The other 83 elements 1.253%


Earth is
46.557 % Cosmic Sensitive
15.68% Galaxtic Sensitive
36.51% Solar Sensitive

Galaxtic Periodic Elements , By DwayneD.L.Rabon

DwyaneD.L.Rabon

Dwayne, always a delight to see you still haven't touched down on the old planet.

Hi Guys,

Saw this thread on google, while searching on silicon based lifeform.

I was interested in this matter after watching a documentary 'The real lost world', where they briefly mentioned an organism living in a cave at Roraima Venezuela, feeding on glass only. It seems even Nasa was interested.

Now are we talking about the first silicon based lifeform ever found on earth? Or is it not so uncommmon for little carbon-based organisms to live on glass. If so, then how to they digest this? What are the buildingblocks they retreive from eating sand or glass?

Just curious :)

Best Regards,
Kevin

Since glass is crypto-crystalline silicon dioxide and that has almost as little nutritional value as a hard vacuum, I doubt that the creature 'fed only on glass'. This sounds like distortion by the documentary maker.

Several types of coarse grass have silica crystals in their tissues, especially at the edge of the blade, to deter grazing. You can cut yourself quite badly on such species.

Diatoms manufacture and inhabit silicon dioxide shells - like little shoeboxes or turtle shells made of glass - routinely.

Other kinds of being also use silicon dioxide for various purposes.

Living things can handle glass, metabolically. But that handling costs energy, rather than releasing energy, under ordinary life conditions - nothing "feeds on" glass.

Well if silicon is used in the creation of a lifeform, it would most likely be a
atom of another chemical structure wherein the silicon is used as a signal
marker for other cells, such as phosphate in a lipid structure, or as a nerochemical, a chemical released by a neruon cell of the brain. perhaps
a stomach fluid such as Hydrogen Chloride.
Silicon as listed in the chart that i posted, is solar senistive and therefore
has a greater probablity of becoming a element that the structure of life is built out,than such elements in the CS and GS catagory.
Silicon is less sensitive to solar events than carbon is, carbon is the most
solar senistive and for that reason life as we know it is built of carbon, carbon is the building structure of life. genetics ect......
Silicon due to it low senistive nature in the SS catagory, looks to be a possiblity for life in a eniviroment where it is very hot and or where there are strong gravitional forces within a solar system. maybe some place like Mercury or closer to the center of the galaxy where star groups are closer and planets are closer in orbit and temiptiures are high.
most likly silicon will not become a structure for life in the outter parts of the galaxy. this absolute for silicon may change with certain solar changes
in different solar systems where the electron enegries change.
but for our solar system silicon remains within the absolute difinition, have very few possiblities for becoming the structure of life.

DwayneD.L.Rabon

Calcium seems to be more in the lines of silicon, so prehaps a life form may use calcium to make a hard shell, or harden softer tissues after they have been cellulary made by the main atomic element that provides structual support.

DwayneD.L.Rabon

Possible? Perhaps, but what would be the advantage?

A silicon-based molecule would be significantly heavier than a carbon counterpart. Imagine if all the carbon in your body was replaced with silicon.

You might weigh, oh, 300kg?

Ive heard about this idea as well, and it really is quite fasinating. Si has a weight of 28 amus vs C's 12. since SiO2 is a solid, you could probobly safely assume that it wouldnt be very promising as a molecular building block. BUT, if the temperature was different on a different planet, maybe a planet with a lower gravity(about half earth's) then it is plausible.

Now, here comes the exciting part; Someone mentioned previously that the lifeforms would be breathing SiO2, but this is entirely wrong. The organism would probobly be bacteria-like. And there are many bacteria that survive on the redox of other elements.

examples:

Nitrifyers survive by transfering ammonia(NH3) to NO3 to NO2. This is where they get their energy, much like us eating carbon based foods, they eat ammonia.(though they do need a carbon source, as they are carbon-based)

Methanogens eat CO2 and convert it to methane(CH4). These organisms are obligate anaerobes, meaning they can't survive in the presence of elemental O2.


Sulfate reducers, another obligate anaerobe(for most strains) eat up sulfur! which is completly toxic to the rest of us.

There is research being done in my department with Phosphate redoxers, which is another example of life surviving without CO2.

These are all considered extremophiles, and I'm sure most of you have heard about them. But the very existance of these organisms is proof that the boundaries of life are very broad.

But the very existance of these organisms is proof that the boundaries of life are very broad.Yet broad based as it is, it remains carbon based.

Yet broad based as it is, it remains carbon based.

True but the conditions on earth are... well in favor of carbon

Which may well be the condition throughout the Universe. Carbon is so much more versatile than silicon. (And this comment comes from someone who wrote a short story some decades ago in which the intelligent entity encountered by interstellar astronauts was a magma chamber! So I'm not opposed to silicon based life per se.:) )

True but the conditions on earth are... well in favor of carbon

Is it feasible that the carbon cycle may evolve to a more effecent process, that allows superior growth and composition construction? Composition on a molecular level?

Which may well be the condition throughout the Universe. Carbon is so much more versatile than silicon. (And this comment comes from someone who wrote a short story some decades ago in which the intelligent entity encountered by interstellar astronauts was a magma chamber! So I'm not opposed to silicon based life per se.:) )

Although what you, the member, sees is a series of seemingly innocent words that apply to the topic, what you are actually reading from the author of this is, "yummm, silicon breasts".

Perhaps at in a constant background of 135 degrees F silicon might act as a componet structure for life, any plant life that does use silicon must create short extremes of chemical heat generation of about 135 degrees.

Possible?

DwayneD.L.Rabon

Although what you, the member, sees is a series of seemingly innocent words that apply to the topic, what you are actually reading from the author of this is, "yummm, silicon breasts".
No. In that department I also favour CHON over silicone

I once wrote a story (never published) about silicon life on Io. The life had evolved from naturally doped aluminum silicate crystals (kyanite) that "lived" in underground liquid sulfur aquifers. The molecule thick kynate crystals could perform limited electrochemical reactions on their flat surfaces, even make copies of themselves from elements dissolved in the surrounding sulfur similar to dna/rna strands in the primitive earth seas. Over time these crystals evolved the ability to link together in chains sumilar to the flip-flop block toy (jacobs ladder) giving them more complex chemical processing abilities. These became the silicon dna of larger creatures made largly of silicon carbide. Energy was obtained from the static electric buildup on the sulfur coated surface of Io caused by the radiation bombardment of Jupiter's magnetosphere and was stored in the organisms body in high temperature superconducting coils (also evolved over eons). Water and free oxygen were deadly catalytic poisons to these critters obviously. There's more but you get the idea. These guys would be very happy in an atomic reactor.