I've just read that it is illegal to say the phrase 'Sieg Heil' in Austria and Germany.

What the hell is so offensive about the phrase Sieg Heil? It merely translates to 'Hail to Victory'. It's not hateful, it's not offensive. It's something a sports team could chant.

The only real argument for banning it is 'OMG TEH NAZISS UZED IT!'. Hence it is seen as offensive to the victims of the Holocaust.

What a joke!

Hitler did not invent the phrase 'Sieg Heil'. It was around a long time before him. In fact, the Germans were chanting 'Sieg Heil' when Germany declared war on Russia in WWI. To ban the phrase 'Sieg Heil' is equivalent to banning the Koran, merely because Muslim extremists chant phrases out of it. And since Muslims who chanted phrases out of the Koran were responsible for 9/11, then obviously anyone else daring to say them is being offensive to the victims, and must be banned.

This is just another example of what a bunch of pussies the Germans have become.

Of course, its wrong to say anything anti-semitic, but its ok for some Jews to continue preaching that it is "not a sin to cheat a goyim" (non jew)

Of course it isn't ok to condone cheating gentiles. Don't be silly.

On a similar note to the main topic - there are some organisations trying to revive the use of the swastika as the religious/spiritual symbol it used to be before the Nazis adopted it. There is even an old Jewish synagogue (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swastika#The_Abrahamic_religions) with swastikas on its floor.

What the hell is so offensive about the phrase Sieg Heil? It merely translates to 'Hail to Victory'. It's not hateful, it's not offensive.
Symbolic connotation.
It is inescapably tied to the National Socialist Party and its leader, and thereby to the many acts, illegal, immoral and unethical, carried out under its name and at his instigation.
In that regard, with respect to soldiers who died fighting the Nazis, the civlians who perished under their attacks, the citizens of neighbouring countries who were disenfranchised, invaded and butchered, the Germans who perished resisting their growth, the millions who died in concentration camps, then it is hateful and it is offensive.
This is just another example of what a bunch of pussies the Germans have become.Or an excellent example of their sensitivity and compassion.

I've just read that it is illegal to say the phrase 'Sieg Heil' in Austria and Germany.

What the hell is so offensive about the phrase Sieg Heil? It merely translates to 'Hail to Victory'. It's not hateful, it's not offensive. It's something a sports team could chant.

The only real argument for banning it is 'OMG TEH NAZISS UZED IT!'. Hence it is seen as offensive to the victims of the Holocaust.

What a joke!

Hitler did not invent the phrase 'Sieg Heil'. It was around a long time before him. In fact, the Germans were chanting 'Sieg Heil' when Germany declared war on Russia in WWI. To ban the phrase 'Sieg Heil' is equivalent to banning the Koran, merely because Muslim extremists chant phrases out of it. And since Muslims who chanted phrases out of the Koran were responsible for 9/11, then obviously anyone else daring to say them is being offensive to the victims, and must be banned.

Though the phrase is far older than the nazis, the National Socialists are most connected with it, and thus, though its wording may not mean much, the sentiment expressed by saying it says alot about you.
Your defense of the Nazis and thier common slogans, coupled with your intense hatred of Islam, leads me to think that you are a nao-nazi-sympathizer. If you aren't, you're certainly acting like it.

It is illegal to say "nigger" in the U.S.

In movies and in hip-hop music, blacks are always saying 'nigger' to one another, so how can it be illegal?

In movies and in hip-hop music, blacks are always saying 'nigger' to one another, so how can it be illegal?Blacks can say nigger with no problems.

If a person who's color of skin is white were to call a black person a nigger, it would be illegal.

Charge would be:
Hate crime, or trying to incite a riot.

Case and point:
http://www.vdare.com/fulford/rae_report.htm

It's not illegal.
It's highly frowned upon and if you say it, you will get your ass whupped, unless you're black.

The only real argument for banning it is 'OMG TEH NAZISS UZED IT!'. Hence it is seen as offensive to the victims of the Holocaust.
It's also offensive to anyone that was involved with WWII, which was like, the whole world. I'm sure hardcore nazis do say "Sieg Heil" in private meetings while pleasuring themselves 4 at a time with swastica-shaped rubber implements, but such public activites would be bad for tourism.

those who oppose national socialism are ignorant fools. just because one nazi leader used the ideology to carry out his other plans(elimination of pretty much everyone), it does not make nazi-ism synonymous with anti-semitism or racism. national socialism can be just as good as any other political ideology when used in a democratic government with evenly distributed power.

our true enemy should be the republics and dictatorships, which provide a single person with almost unrestricted power - the perfect catalyst to corruption.

Just as Seig Heil, as a phrase, is neutral, yet because of its history it metamorphoses into a provocative totem, so too national socialism and nazis carry more baggage than can ever be supported by any mainstream political movement.
Precisely because of the dictatorial corruption of the ideology by Hitler it does make nazism synonymous with anit-semitism and racism. There was little democratic about Hitler's regime, and the only way in which power evenly ditributed within it was when equal force was applied by the secondary players.

An ignorant fool

its not just germany and austria. its most of western europe where such behavior is illegal.

you know...i never understood why americans could be "neo-nazis"...the nazi goal was a solely european affair, to secure the fatherland.
AND, hitler lost. AND, it has been proven that different races have very very little difference between them, other than cosmetically.

*shrug*

i wouldnt consider the germans pussies, but i think they are sincerely sorry for the WWII trespasses. they still have their own road to hoe as seen by their response to the invasion of iraq.
ursula

vslayer,
National Socialism in Germany was actually a fascist dictatorship. I don't see anything admirable about that.

on ebay in germany it is illegal to sell nazi paraphernalia , stamps are excepted i think. i dont know if austria is the same.
ursula

spidergoat;

that is what the leadership evolved to: the majority of nazis set out with the goal of bringing a new era of prosperity to their people through nazi ideals, they never set out to give hitler totalitarian power or anything even close.

the republican party started out similarly, yet just because it has gone the same way as hitlers germany, it doesn't mean that republican government cannot be effective(given new leadership and an adherance to the constitution). a lot of people dont even know what republicans stand for, they just label the evil because of their corrupt leadership. that is exactly what you seem to be doing with the nazis.

in this modern world, national socialism should be accepted as a valid political ideology, and it supporters should not be labelled as hate mongering jew killers or hitler worshippers.

The term national socialism is generally accepted to mean Nazism. What does it mean to you?

it means exactly that. but it doesnt mean totalitarianism, dictatorship, or hitler.

The term national socialism is generally accepted to mean Nazism.

It is?? By whom? I've never, ever heard anyone say or imply that ...okay, except perhaps some neo-nazi groups or someone who hates them. But...?

Baron Max

So...it means fascism and racial purity?

Originally, Nazi was invented by analogy to Sozi (a common and slightly pejorative term for the Nazis' main opponents, the socialists in Germany){wiki}

Nazism, the political ideology of the German Nazi Party of the 1930s to 1940s. Since World War II, the term "National Socialism" (capitalized) almost always has referred to German Nazism, in the context of Western political or history discussions. It has also been adopted or applied to the ideology of descendent groups, generally referred to as Neo-Nazism. Its application to socialist or anarchist groups, however, is considered inaccurate and pejorative. {wikipedia}

Hmm, I guess that just shows you how damned old I really am!!! :)

Baron Max

Ophiolite:

Symbolic connotation.
It is inescapably tied to the National Socialist Party and its leader,

Not necessarily. People CHOOSE to make that connection. Merely because the Nazis parroted the phase 'Sieg Heil' does not mean that anyone who shouts 'Sieg Heil' is a neo-Nazi supporter.

Perhaps others make a different connection. Perhaps when I hear Sieg Heil, I think of when the Germans chanted it after hearing the declaration of war against Russia and other imperialistic nations. The same Russia which occupied Poland for 100+ years, and then tried to steal its recently gained independence in the 1920's.

Perhaps when I hear it, I think of German war spirit, their resilience and national pride. Not their supposed 'slaughter' of the Jews, which only occupies one page in their vast history.


In that regard, with respect to soldiers who died fighting the Nazis, the civlians who perished under their attacks, the citizens of neighbouring countries who were disenfranchised, invaded and butchered, the Germans who perished resisting their growth, the millions who died in concentration camps, then it is hateful and it is offensive.

Even if 'Sieg Heil' did automatically correspond to supporting the Nazi regime, so fucking what? Are the thought police now dictating what people can and can't personally support? Must we tiptoe around because faint-hearted pussycats will be 'offended'. Didn't Hitler ban public speech which opposed his ideological beliefs?


Or an excellent example of their sensitivity and compassion.

Or an example of how Western occupation crushed their militant spirit, and defamed their proud history.

spidergoat:

The term national socialism is generally accepted to mean Nazism.

Bullshit. Nazism is a brand of National Socialism, which was invented FAR LONG AFTER the concept of national socialism was (National Socialism was invented during the French Revolution, by Jean Jacques Rousseau.).

For example, you can have Red National Socialists (aka. many communist regimes, including Stalin), Yellow National Socialists (the French National Socialist Party, which later became 'The Federation of Yellows'), and other sorts of National Socialism. Czech and Britain had non anti-semitic national socialist parties.

Hapsburg:

Though the phrase is far older than the nazis, the National Socialists are most connected with it,

Not in my mind. And why should they be? The phrase was used time and time again, long before the Nazis even existed. In fact, it was often used by the Germans (especially the Prussians) as a war cry to instill pride in their followers. Oh wait... perhaps THAT is the real reason why the phrase was banned...


and thus, though its wording may not mean much, the sentiment expressed by saying it says alot about you.

Yeah, fancy that. I defend the right say phrases such as 'Hail to victory!'. There is nothing inherently anti-semitic about the statement. Quite the contrary, people CHOOSE to make that connection, because they have been brainwashed by Western propaganda.


Your defense of the Nazis

Where Nazi = Anyone you don't agree with.


and thier common slogans,

Muslims use phrases from the Koran for their common slogans. Guess we had better prosecute anyone who reads the Koran in public!


coupled with your intense hatred of Islam,

I don't have an intense hatred of Islam, moron.


leads me to think that you are a nao-nazi-sympathizer. If you aren't, you're certainly acting like it.

Even if I was, so what? Label me a Nazi, and you've somehow blown my arguments out of the water? Why not label me a Communist and a Facist while you're at it, as well as a liberal and a conservative?

Not necessarily. People CHOOSE to make that connection. Merely because the Nazis parroted the phase 'Sieg Heil' does not mean that anyone who shouts 'Sieg Heil' is a neo-Nazi supporter.

True. If you want to dedicate your life to removing the stigma from that phrase so that it can be said by Germans, Americans, Israelis etc without any negative connotation, that's fine. Might take a while though. In fact, the good part is that you don't even have to do anything! Just wait a few hundred years and chances are, the phrase will be meaningless.

Bullshit. Nazism is a brand of National Socialism, which was invented FAR LONG AFTER the concept of national socialism was (National Socialism was invented during the French Revolution, by Jean Jacques Rousseau.).
not bullshit. im a fairly average guy, and if you take 100 other average folks, and ask them who the most famous national socialists were, i would bet that over 90 percent of them would say "nazis".
period.
dont argue semantics that you know to be true.
:m:

not bullshit. im a fairly average guy, and if you take 100 other average folks, and ask them who the most famous national socialists were, i would bet that over 90 percent of them would say "nazis".
period.
dont argue semantics that you know to be true.

Well, take 100 average folks and ask them if males fucking other males in the ass is morally acceptable .....and what would you get?

Your argument is nothing but bullshit and, worse, idiocy! The average person is swayed by the constant and unrelenting news media and can be made to "see things" almost any way the media chose ....and you want to use such people as a conclusive statement?? ...LOL!

Baron Max

The average person is swayed by the constant and unrelenting news media and can be made to "see things" almost any way the media chose ....and you want to use such people as a conclusive statement?? ...LOL!

Baron Max

Depends entirely on the statement. If you're asking them a delicate scientific question based on relativity, you'll probably get the wrong answer. If you want to discern public opinion - well, they are the public. It's their opinion. So your results will be accurate :D

Fame being a subjective thing, that also falls under opinion. So asking 100 random people is a reasonable way of determining the 'most famous National Socialists'.

Bullshit. Nazism is a brand of National Socialism, which was invented FAR LONG AFTER the concept of national socialism was (National Socialism was invented during the French Revolution, by Jean Jacques Rousseau.).
I disagree, simply because National Socialism is not socialism at all. The name was taken up to spite the real socialists in Germany, who were their enemy. There is nothing about National Socialism that has anything in common with the philosophy of Jean Jacques Rousseau.

Merely because the Nazis parroted the phase 'Sieg Heil' does not mean that anyone who shouts 'Sieg Heil' is a neo-Nazi supporter.
Yes, it does. Words cannot just mean what you want them to mean, divorced from history. It's like wanting to go around saying you're gay because you're happy, it just doesn't mean the same thing anymore.

Yes, it does. Words cannot just mean what you want them to mean, divorced from history. It's like wanting to go around saying you're gay because you're happy, it just doesn't mean the same thing anymore.

Indeed, I read the story of a guy returning to Berlin during the last year of the war. Berlin had been bombed to shit and the Soviets were on their way to Berlin. The mood amongst berliners was of one of defeatism. Something that aggrevated Hitler of course.

This guy went in a store and did the sieg heil thing that was the common greeting earlier in the war. People stared at him. People had lost faith in their fuhrer. They didn't have enough faith to continue keeping up the symbolism of their nazi empire.

The sieg heil was at that moment and still is a symbol of that particular empire and it always will be.

Anyone who says that it isn't is either extremely uneducated or just a troll.

Where Nazi = Anyone you don't agree with.
No, where "Nazi" = rabid anti-semitic trollfucker.

When in doubt consult the encyclopedia

Hitler salute

The Hitler salute (Hitlergruß) is the embodiment of the Hitler cult of personality. The right hand is held upward or maybe sometimes forward or up, while usually exclaiming Sieg Heil! or Heil Hitler!.

Heil Hitler! or "Hail to Hitler!" was used when directly addressing Hitler, or a higher ranking officer.

Sieg Heil! or "Victory and Hail!" (lit., Sieg "victory" Heil "welfare") was a common Nazi chant at rallies, especially after the speeches of Adolf Hitler. Usually the words would be repeated three times to form the chant "Sieg...Heil! Sieg...Heil! Sieg...Heil!".

All Nazi exclamations, including the SS motto Meine Ehre heißt Treue ("My honor is named loyalty") are forbidden in Germany.

Modern social usage of the Hitler salute

The Hitler salute is mostly not condoned, even when used jocularly. It is forbidden by law in Germany.

Modern social usage of Sieg Heil! or Heil Hitler!

The usage of the words in modern times may be considered offensive, especially by those whose ancestors were tortured or killed by the Nazis. However, the words have been used to poke fun at Nazis, e.g., to cheekily insinuate that someone may be acting like a dictator.

The Swing Kids had a parody of the chant, "Swing Heil"". The usage "Sieg Geil" also was common, to hint at the quite vivid sex-life of high Nazi officials like Dr. Joseph Goebbels. The German word "geil" equals the English word "horny" or can in some cases more accurately translated as "hot". In the song Holiday, Green Day criticizes President Bush by writing, Sieg heil to the President Gasman/Bombs away is your punishment.

When something is in the encyclopedia it is safe to assume it is common and agreed upon knowledge.

if you want to dance, we will. *sigh*
Well, take 100 average folks and ask them if males fucking other males in the ass is morally acceptable .....and what would you get?
i was talking about average folks around the world, not just in arkansas. i have lived all over this planet, and most folks dont give a damn about where a dick goes, as long as they dont have to watch you do it.

Your argument is nothing but bullshit and, worse, idiocy! The average person is swayed by the constant and unrelenting news media and can be made to "see things" almost any way the media chose ....and you want to use such people as a conclusive statement?? ...LOL!

Baron Max

you have no idea what the average person experiences from your FAAAAR right wing horizon.

Ultimate sceptic: there is no chair.
Pragmatist: *brains sceptic with chair*

Oh, two can play at this game, Zeph.

Ultimate optimist: *fucks the chair*
Ultimate pessimist: *gets fucked by the chair*.
:D

No, where "Nazi" = rabid anti-semitic trollfucker.
GO EAT A HAM SANDWICH

do you wonder why you got banned, brian foley?

if i were a mod, i would have perma-banned you.
i am against racial slurs of any kind. particularly the kind that can be explained away by childish "i didnt mean anything by it" remarks. you sicken me.

GO EAT A HAM SANDWICH
Oh, why would I do that, when I enjoy salami far more than ham?

do you wonder why you got banned, brian foley?

if i were a mod, i would have perma-banned you.
i am against racial slurs of any kind. particularly the kind that can be explained away by childish "i didnt mean anything by it" remarks. you sicken me.
No I think its his turn to be banned , calling others troll fucker , calling me a mother fucker and his unprovoked obscene attack on happeh today as well as his labelling everyone a racist , nazi and anti-semite who does not agree with him .

When the Nazis organised the 1936 summer olympic games the Nazis continued a tradition long lost: to ignite the olympic fire on mount olympia using centralised solar beams according to Ancient Greek tradition. This tradition is still active. Many have argued that the tradition should be dropped because of the Nazi origin. Isn't that moronic?

By the way, out of respect for the dead? Just like the dead (can) give a shit! No, National Socialist is an ideology that was banned to prevent another uprising. Nationalism had caused enough trouble at that time, just look at all the totalitarian countries back then.

By the way Nazism is not another name for national socialism but it was derived from the German word for national socialism. The definition of Nazism is Hitler's vision on national socialism. Central to the philosophy is the belief that the Aryan race is superior to other races.

his labelling everyone a racist , nazi and anti-semite
First off, I don't call everyone who disagrees with me "nazis". If you're acting racist against Jewish people and Israel, that seems very anti-semtic and nazist, does it not?
Second of all, you've posted several anti-israel and anti-jewish threads. If that's not anti-semitism, I don't know what is.

you dont have to be anti-sematic to hate israel. i have no problem with jews, i have a problme with israel; invading palestine, killing palestinians, forcing thousands of palestinians to live under curfew just for the sake of a handful of israeli occupiers who refuse to move.

israels existence as a separate state is illegal, and until they accept a peaceful non-religious co-operative government with palestine, they have no right to be there.

israels existence as a separate state is illegal

'cording to whom?

http://experts.about.com/q/352/3466924.htm
http://www.theactivist.co.uk/israel.HTM
http://www.israelipalestinianprocon.org/bin/procon/procon.cgi?database=5-B-Sub-Q1.db&command=viewone&op=t&id=13&rnd=319.619370917156

israels existence as a separate state is illegal
Uh...NATO says otherwise. Anyway, what could you do about it? You got an army?
No?
Shut up, then.

the u.n. doesnt have an army either....
should THEY shut up?

the u.n. doesnt have an army either....
should THEY shut up?

Kofi Annan, Secretary-General of the United Nations, in a 3/28/01 speech to the Arab League, stated:

"The international community and the Arab world have every right to criticise Israel for its continued occupation of Palestinian and Syrian territory, and for its excessively harsh response to the Intifada. But these points could be made more effectively if many Israelis did not believe that their existence was under threat. Israel has a right, enshrined in numerous United Nations resolutions, to exist in safety within internationally recognised borders... What we need is movement towards an agreement that responds both to the legitimate desire of the Palestinians for national independence, and to the legitimate claims of the Israelis to recognition and security."

03/28/01 Kofi Annan

source (http://www.israelipalestinianprocon.org/bin/procon/procon.cgi?database=5-B-Sub-Q1.db&command=viewone&op=t&id=13&rnd=319.619370917156)

Zephyr:

Israel has a right, enshrined in numerous United Nations resolutions, to exist in safety within internationally recognised borders...

And why the hell should Palestine respect so called 'international law'? Israel and the U.S sure as hell don't!

Oh wait, I forgot. The Palestinians are expected to bow and scrape before the laws of the UN. But God forbid the UN actually daring to protect the Palestinians. Israel violates Resolution 242, the Right of Return, and the Geneva Convention while the UN sits idlely by. If Saddam redraws the borders of Iraq, then the UN is up in arms. When Israel did so time and time again throughout the 20th century, there were empty protests and silence.

You expect the Palestinians to respect laws created by a body which they did not elect, and have no effective representation in. You expect them to obey laws created by foreigners, which state what they can and cannot do with their indigenous land. You expect them to obey a law giver who never makes any effort to apply those laws equally.

And then you wonder why the Palestinians refuse to live up to your expectations!

Israel is a national socialist state. Nothing wrong with that - it's their right to do so! I'll defend Israel.

the u.n. doesnt have an army either....
should THEY shut up?
No, but the member nations of The u.n DO have armies.

Though the phrase is far older than the nazis, the National Socialists are most connected with it, and thus, though its wording may not mean much, the sentiment expressed by saying it says alot about you.
Your defense of the Nazis and thier common slogans, coupled with your intense hatred of Islam, leads me to think that you are a nao-nazi-sympathizer. If you aren't, you're certainly acting like it.

lyk omg i know

bec he mak anlgy he muz b teh hat o izlm n kneeo nutzi

The term national socialism is generally accepted to mean Nazism. What does it mean to you?


All that I know is that it has nothing to do with taking a nationalist approach to socialism...

So mountain hare...

are you trying to suggest that allah akbar is on the same level as sieg heil?

don't forget NSDAP means National Sozialistische Deutsche Arbeiders Partei, at least.. that's what I have been taught in history class last year.

All that I know is that it has nothing to do with taking a nationalist approach to socialism...

Um, no; it does. Nationalism = ethnic self-rule, socialism = state owns some or all of the means of production. National Socialist states were a capitalist-socialist hybrid.

I was wondering if anyone could help me with a project I am carrying out on the Third Reich. Im studying a visual communication course and I am doing my dissertation on 'The Branding of the Third Reich'. If you think this is a ridiculous title, please let me know!!

I am learning a lot about the history, but am far from an expert!!

I was wondering if you could give me any information about in which ways you think the NAzi PArty 'Branded' themselves, in order to make the german people 'buy into them'?? Through propaganda, logo, music etc.

any help would be greatly appreciated or any websites that you think i could visit??

thanx guys xx

Try reading the english translation of Hitlers speeches.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Goebbels

It is not illegal to say the N word in America. Trust me, I spend a lot of time in Virginia where white people say it and a lot of time a few miles east in D.C. where black people say it.

Under the new crime of "hate speach" you could be prosecuted for calling someone that, if it is meant as an expression of hatred and causes emotional harm, or if you say it when the wrong person is within earshot and takes advantage of the law just to get you in trouble.

You're still legally allowed to say it in the academic context of studying the history and impact of the word. You're still legally allowed to say it in theater, comedy or satire, to make fun of it, examine it, or remind us of our history. Black people are still legally allowed to say it to each other, on the theory that it must not be offending anyone.

I'm sure you've read about private universities and other private institutions that have banned the word. This is not the law in action and the most they can do to a violator of the ban is to eject him from the institution for not playing by its rules.

There are some public schools which have attempted to ban the N word. Since they are government institutions they are required to adhere to the law, so this ban would seem to be illegal unless it is only narrowly enforced under the provisions of the "hate speech" law. The plaintiffs argue that for their children to read the word in an assigned book or hear it in a dispassionate classroom discussion nonetheless causes emotional injury. In today's politically correct environment, which will probably become stricter under the control of the Blue Party, they may prevail until the political winds shift capriciously again.

The Germans (and French and other countries) have gone too far. We Americans, in my opinion, have abridged freedom of speech excessively over the years, yet the principle lives on. Whenever someone attempts to completely ban a song, a book, any expression, symbol or work of art, they invariably fail in the long run no matter how many are offended by it.

"The measure of our freedom is not how zealously we protect the things we love, but how zealously we protect the things we hate." I don't know who said that.

I also believe in Louis Brandeis's slogan, "The best disinfectant is sunshine." Even to the extent that some people are displaying Nazi material and saying "Sieg heil" because they believe in it, we want this stuff out in the open where we can keep track of it and argue with the people who believe in it. Isn't it kind of scary to force neo-Nazis to skulk around and meet in basements so we lose touch with them? They made the people they hated wear identifying symbols. What's wrong with permitting them to do it voluntarily so we can spot them in a crowd? :)

I think you dialed the wrong number.

I've just read that it is illegal to say the phrase 'Sieg Heil' in Austria and Germany.

What the hell is so offensive about the phrase Sieg Heil? It merely translates to 'Hail to Victory'. It's not hateful, it's not offensive. It's something a sports team could chant.

The only real argument for banning it is 'OMG TEH NAZISS UZED IT!'. Hence it is seen as offensive to the victims of the Holocaust.

What a joke!

Hitler did not invent the phrase 'Sieg Heil'. It was around a long time before him. In fact, the Germans were chanting 'Sieg Heil' when Germany declared war on Russia in WWI. To ban the phrase 'Sieg Heil' is equivalent to banning the Koran, merely because Muslim extremists chant phrases out of it. And since Muslims who chanted phrases out of the Koran were responsible for 9/11, then obviously anyone else daring to say them is being offensive to the victims, and must be banned.

This is just another example of what a bunch of pussies the Germans have become.

If thats true, thats complete liberal PC bullshit, and I'm not a Nazi, or a Nazi supporter.

I just think Nazi's should have the right to say what they feel, making a Nazi hold it in, will only make them MORE violent and MORE dangerous than if they could go around telling the world how much they hate everyone.

I'd rather there be no censorship at all, let Nazi's say whatever they hell they want to say, let them hold rallies, let them hold hate rallies and chant whatever they want. Let Nazi's be Nazi's, it's their religion and it's their right.

Now, if other people disagree, then thats fine too, they have the right to disagree, but disagreement should never express itself through censorship, when you censor something it's telling the world you agree with it but would rather it be kept private because you want to look like you disagree.

It is not illegal to say the N word in America. Trust me, I spend a lot of time in Virginia where white people say it and a lot of time a few miles east in D.C. where black people say it.

Under the new crime of "hate speach" you could be prosecuted for calling someone that, if it is meant as an expression of hatred and causes emotional harm, or if you say it when the wrong person is within earshot and takes advantage of the law just to get you in trouble.

You're still legally allowed to say it in the academic context of studying the history and impact of the word. You're still legally allowed to say it in theater, comedy or satire, to make fun of it, examine it, or remind us of our history. Black people are still legally allowed to say it to each other, on the theory that it must not be offending anyone.

I'm sure you've read about private universities and other private institutions that have banned the word. This is not the law in action and the most they can do to a violator of the ban is to eject him from the institution for not playing by its rules.

There are some public schools which have attempted to ban the N word. Since they are government institutions they are required to adhere to the law, so this ban would seem to be illegal unless it is only narrowly enforced under the provisions of the "hate speech" law. The plaintiffs argue that for their children to read the word in an assigned book or hear it in a dispassionate classroom discussion nonetheless causes emotional injury. In today's politically correct environment, which will probably become stricter under the control of the Blue Party, they may prevail until the political winds shift capriciously again.

The Germans (and French and other countries) have gone too far. We Americans, in my opinion, have abridged freedom of speech excessively over the years, yet the principle lives on. Whenever someone attempts to completely ban a song, a book, any expression, symbol or work of art, they invariably fail in the long run no matter how many are offended by it.

"The measure of our freedom is not how zealously we protect the things we love, but how zealously we protect the things we hate." I don't know who said that.

I also believe in Louis Brandeis's slogan, "The best disinfectant is sunshine." Even to the extent that some people are displaying Nazi material and saying "Sieg heil" because they believe in it, we want this stuff out in the open where we can keep track of it and argue with the people who believe in it. Isn't it kind of scary to force neo-Nazis to skulk around and meet in basements so we lose touch with them? They made the people they hated wear identifying symbols. What's wrong with permitting them to do it voluntarily so we can spot them in a crowd? :)

No word should be banned. What ever happened to the proud racist, or the honest Nazi? What the hell is the point to these new polite Nazi's or polite racists?

If someone does not like you and they make it clear immediately, this is better than having them pretend to like you and make it clear later on, don't you think?

Example, as a man, is it better for a woman to pretend to like you, right up until the point where you ask her out on a date and get rejected or would you rather she reject you before you even get the chance?

Ein Reich! Ein Volk! Ein Fuhrer!

Oh wait...never mind.

This isn't the Nazi rally. :(