I step on ants all the time. Crush their little lives right out of them. Is this wrong?

Nope, it's not wrong.

Should we kill termites that eat the wood structure of our homes?

Should we breed and raise cattle, then kill them, butcher them, roast the meat and eat it? Hmm?

Baron Max

No. All these things are o.k. with me. Now, I wouldn't want to do the butchering - but, I would if I had to in order to stay alive.

ever try burning them under a magnifying glass?

I step on ants all the time. Crush their little lives right out of them. Is this wrong?

Yes, you should repent. I for one welcome our new insect overlords.

Hell no! Did you ever see the movie Them? They'd do the same or worse to us if they had half a chance.

They are just ants, but still you shouldnt go outa your way to step on them.

I don't go out of my way to kill any insects.
But when they start coming in your house......SPLAT

my kitten kills them most of the time

my kitten kills them most of the time

evil kitten.

the ants call the kitten, the sable toothed gigantic furry monster.

Mahavira (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahavira), an ancient Buddha (contemporary of Gautam Buddha) on whom base teachings Jainism was founded used to say we need to respect all living creatures. Jainism today has more than 4 million followers in India.

He used to sleep in one side of his body, and he didn´t move during the entire night, because he could kill an insect on the process.
He also never walked in grass, because many insects live there.
Plus he was always naked (I don´t really know the reason for that, but we all want to do that unconciously).

http://www.exoticindiaart.com/artimages/mahavira_sm.jpg
http://www.ringostarr.com/images/image_gallery/gallery_large/Mahavira.jpg

I´m not saying that killing insects is good or bad; killing an insect is killing a living creature, just that, it is not something to catalog as good or bad.

I used to burn ants when I had a lighter in my hand; hell, I burn anything at reach when I have a lighter in my hand. Now I feel just a little bad, so I don´t burn insects to death anymore :o.

evil kitten.

the ants call the kitten, the sable toothed gigantic furry monster.

And I call him a fuzzy little asshole

And I call him a fuzzy little asshole

evil master for calling such a kitten bad names.

Is it ok to kill humans for their delicious, tender meat?

only if your really going to eat them

Is it ok to kill humans for their delicious, tender meat?

not unless society agrees with such practice.

only if your really going to eat them
Naturally.

not unless society agrees with such practice.
I'd imagine that - as with killing ants - some will be in favour, some not.

Yes, but I also like to go out of my way to kill ants. I'll actually move over a little while walking just to step on one. Is that wrong?

yes

How so? For the ant? For me? If it's not wrong to kill an ant, then why is it wrong to go out of your way to kill an ant? Is it just bad for me? Why? It's not like ant killing leads to killing people.

http://epublications.bond.edu.au/hss_pubs/30/


No, but why would you go out of your way to kill the ant?

Is it ok to kill humans for their delicious, tender meat?

No because they aren't going to do the same to you (at least most of them aren't). Also, there's no need to. Just get a job in a mortuary and you can get all the meat you want. As for the morality of eating human flesh, I'd say that there's nothing immoral about it but most people find the practice distasteful.

I go out of my way to kill ants, because I don't like their creepy crawly selves.

I go out of my way to kill ants, because I don't like their creepy crawly selves.


So is going out of your way to kill a buny different then killing an ant, cause personally I cant stand how cute they are.

Hmm...? Good question. Killing a bunny is more like killing a person, so I would stay away from that. A lot of blood, a body to dispose of, and also a mammal.

Hmm...? Good question. Killing a bunny is more like killing a person, so I would stay away from that. A lot of blood, a body to dispose of, and also a mammal.


how is it any different then what you just told me? I find them to be gross so if I see one I kill it. Do you see why this type of animal cruelty can be linked to more srious mental disorders or violent behavior. Ant, then bunny, and just move your way up the ladder

No. I see a big difference between an ant and a bunny. Hell, I would be scared to kill a bunny, because the little bastard might viciously fight back.

What about a bunny and a dog?

You mean a bunny-dog? Could a bunny procreate with a dog? Scientists - I want answers!

You mean a bunny-dog? Could a bunny procreate with a dog? Scientists - I want answers!


Okay let me be very specific Do you see a difference between going out of your way to kill a bunny, and going out of your way to kill a dog?


Im sorry there was some confusion there maybe you should remeber what your own topic was to begin with :D

Yes. A dog is more human like, very smart, and deserving of more respect than a bunny.

Yes. A dog is more human like, very smart, and deserving of more respect than a bunny.


So because you give dogs the stigma of being more like a human they have more of a right to survive a cruel and untimely death at your hands?

Yes. That's right. But, I wouldn't call it a stigma. I would call it a positive association.

Yes. That's right. But, I wouldn't call it a stigma. I would call it a positive association.

I dont think that any animal should be killed just for the sake of killing it, and thats a ridiculous double standard to say that because of the impression that an animal is more human it has more of a right to be alive than another. Now im no saint and I have killed bugs just to kill bugs but did I feel bad? yes. Do you feel any remorse for killing the ants when you kill them, do you ever put yourself in their shoes? I bet it would be pretty fucking shitty if a huge as foot came out of the sky and stomped on you wouldnt it?

I put them under my shoes. No, I never felt guilty. If I felt guilty, I probably wouldn't have killed the little pricks. And, I don't think it's a double standard to prefer dogs over ants. Dogs are better than ants.

I put them under my shoes. No, I never felt guilty. If I felt guilty, I probably wouldn't have killed the little pricks. And, I don't think it's a double standard to prefer dogs over ants. Dogs are better than ants.

how are dogs better than ants? From a natural perspective ants are far more numerous and far more succesful as a species than dogs, they can lift more mass and are faster if you take size into account.

No because they aren't going to do the same to you (at least most of them aren't).
So we eat meat because cows are going to eat humans. :confused:
Also, there's no need to.
We need to eat beef. :confused:
Just get a job in a mortuary and you can get all the meat you want.
Or a slaughterhouse.
As for the morality of eating human flesh, I'd say that there's nothing immoral about it but most people find the practice distasteful.
Whereas vegetarians find eating cows acceptable. :confused:

An ant can't get me my slippers.

An ant can't get me my slippers.


ohh very good so the actual determining factor of a species right to live is its usefullness to you as a person

You should respect all life as an aspect of the divine.






But it's okay to kill things if they're ugly, or in your way, or you're in the mood.

spot on !

You should respect all life as an aspect of the divine.

But it's okay to kill things if they're ugly, or in your way, or you're in the mood.

I agree, but unfortunately there are laws against it in most cases! I have this neighbor, ....... :D

Baron Max

I have this neighbor, ....... :D

Baron Max

violence is not an option.

So we eat meat because cows are going to eat humans. :confused:

No cows aren't going to eat people unless we grind the people up and add them as a protein supplement to their feed, in which case they probably aren't going to notice. However, cows also don't care about the welfare of human beings so I don't see a moral need to care about their welfare. I do however see that cruelty to any species is distateful and I can see why someone would chose to be a vegetarian because of that. For me, however, I find it an acceptable trade-off.

Also, I don't believe that being eaten are animal species biggest "worries" in the longrun. Cows are going to survive as a species a lot longer than many other animals because we chose to raise and eat them. And I'm willing to bet if we suddenly decided to stop eating them and let them go into the wild they wouldn't be doing all that well as a species.


We need to eat beef. :confused:

No. I chose to because it gives me pleasure and the pleasure I take from it outweighs the discomfort I have at the thought of how cattle are slaughtered, etc.

However, cows also don't care about the welfare of human beings so I don't see a moral need to care about their welfare.
Whereas cats and dogs, for instance, do care about the welfare of human beings, either in the specific - particular humans as individuals - or in the general (humans as a group, or as a concept), or both. Especially Lassie. Other animals that care about us, and which we therefore customarily avoid chewing, include crocodiles and alligators, snakes, tapirs, capuchins (oh wait.. actually, all monkeys), spiders, ants and capybaras. Cows, pigs, sheep, chickens, cod, shrimp and lobsters are notorious in their indifference and therefore must perish. :confused:
Also, I don't believe that being eaten are animal species biggest "worries" in the longrun. Cows are going to survive as a species a lot longer than many other animals because we chose to raise and eat them. And I'm willing to bet if we suddenly decided to stop eating them and let them go into the wild they wouldn't be doing all that well as a species.

We domesticated cows waaay back in Neolithic times, to the point where they can't eat grass these days without a knife and fork. In order to ensure their continued survival - it's a big, bad world out there - we need to continue farming and eating them. :confused:
No. I chose to because it gives me pleasure and the pleasure I take from it outweighs the discomfort I have at the thought of how cattle are slaughtered, etc.
"I like beef. So fuck 'em. Fucking cow cunts." Yum yum, chew chew, chomp chomp chomp..

violence is not an option.

Looked out the window lately?
Watched the TV?

Violence is ALWAYS an option.
In many cases some see it as the only option.

ever try burning them under a magnifying glass?
lol, I've had my share of ants meet there demise for my enjoyment growing up. But I do feel that technically, though it isn't a wrong that should be gravely punished or any thing of the sort, I have to say, that unless you have to kill lower forms of life to survive, you shouldn't. If not for any other reason, than its hand in bringing about the crueler side of mankind. And again I'm not judgeing anyone, this is just my opinion; I use to do the same until I thought about it. And fumigating your house for pests falls under the category of survival in my book.

Looked out the window lately?
Watched the TV?

Violence is ALWAYS an option.
In many cases some see it as the only option.

I agree with violence when it’s necessary such as protecting your country or family; when it isn't a selfish act and is the only apparent solution.

I agree with violence when it’s necessary such as protecting your country or family; when it isn't a selfish act and is the only apparent solution.
So you agree that Iraqis who feel that their country is under threat have a right to kill invading American troops?

So you agree that Iraqis who feel that their country is under threat have a right to kill invading American troops?

Yes, if they truly feel that their actions are better for there country; this is a war. I'm not a terrorist sympathizer by far, but in all wars, the soldiers have the right to defend their country.

Coolness. Just checking.

Whereas cats and dogs, for instance, do care about the welfare of human beings, either in the specific - particular humans as individuals - or in the general (humans as a group, or as a concept), or both. Especially Lassie. Other animals that care about us, and which we therefore customarily avoid chewing, include crocodiles and alligators, snakes, tapirs, capuchins (oh wait.. actually, all monkeys), spiders, ants and capybaras. Cows, pigs, sheep, chickens, cod, shrimp and lobsters are notorious in their indifference and therefore must perish. :confused:

No moral reason not to kill & eat cats, bunnies, lemurs or whatever else you want. I personally could care less if you ate Lassie. Some people find it distasteful just as they find eating human flesh distateful.

We domesticated cows waaay back in Neolithic times, to the point where they can't eat grass these days without a knife and fork. In order to ensure their continued survival - it's a big, bad world out there - we need to continue farming and eating them. :confused:

Why don't you buy a cow and free it from its chains. Or help it escape. Let it run free on the plains somewhere, and see how well it does.

No moral reason not to kill & eat cats, bunnies, lemurs or whatever else you want. I personally could care less if you ate Lassie. Some people find it distasteful just as they find eating human flesh distateful.
So eating or not eating humans is a matter of personal choice.
Why don't you buy a cow and free it from its chains. Or help it escape. Let it run free on the plains somewhere, and see how well it does.
I think I may do just that.

I step on ants all the time. Crush their little lives right out of them. Is this wrong?

That's ok. Bacteria eat your food all the time. Mosquitos drink your blood all the time. Viruses try to kill you all the time.

Yes, but ants don't. Why take it out on the ants? If someone assaults you, would you turn and assault an innocent bystander in return?

Stupid dutchman.

Yes, but I also like to go out of my way to kill ants. I'll actually move over a little while walking just to step on one. Is that wrong?

YES

Yes, but ants don't. Why take it out on the ants? If someone assaults you, would you turn and assault an innocent bystander in return?

Stupid dutchman.

thing is ... what's better to take out anger on ants or on people?

obviously on ants...they are not the same species. If they die...we can survive just as well without them.

thing is ... what's better to take out anger on ants or on people?

obviously on ants...they are not the same species. If they die...we can survive just as well without them.

Why ? Do you feel better when you step on an ant !? Take it out on the one that deserves it.

"If they die...we can survive just as well without them."
Don't count on it.

Why ? Do you feel better when you step on an ant !? Freaking coward !

Enmos relax allrighty...

First you ask me a question and without waiting for the reply accuse me.

I dont step on ants to feel better, I usually supress anger within me, and eat it over with kefir or by biking or sciforuming...this works for me

Others do it and it helps them, and if it helps them...than let that be...because it is better.

Enmos relax allrighty...

First you ask me a question and without waiting for the reply accuse me.

I dont step on ants to feel better, I usually supress anger within me, and eat it over with kefir or by biking or sciforuming...this works for me

Others do it and it helps them, and if it helps them...than let that be...because it is better.

I apologize, I already edited it out.

If it helps them ? Come on... how would that help them, can't they just kick a rock or something ?
All life is to be respected. If you unintentionally step on an ant, so be it. But you don't have to step on them on purpose.. it's just sick.

I apologize, I already edited it out.

If it helps them ? Come on... how would that help them, can't they just kick a rock or something ?
All life is to be respected. If you unintentionally step on an ant, so be it. But you don't have to step on them on purpose.. it's just sick.

well if it helps them, it helps them. I rather see people alive and well than see dead ants lying on the ground.

Unless they're Chechens. Chechens bellies lie lower than ants. They need to be erased from history.

well if it helps them, it helps them. I rather see people alive and well than see dead ants lying on the ground.

What person could only be helped by stepping on ants !? :bugeye:
What mental illness would require that !!?

What person could only be helped by stepping on ants !? :bugeye:
What mental illness would require that !!?

you speak as though killing ants is the highest pedistal of sinister evil act on Earth and that is not done...have you not seen wars of humans?
Have you not seen the bodies...the dead soldiers...civilians killed? Have you not known of jails with prisoners killing each other? Have you not hear of violence and rape in cities like Detroit and Las Vegas?

ants or humans?

I choose humans

If it makes him/her feel better and she/he therefore does not commit evil against humans...than it is the right way.

you speak as though killing ants is the highest pedistal of sinister evil act on Earth and that is not done...have you not seen wars of humans?
Have you not seen the bodies...the dead soldiers...civilians killed? Have you not known of jails with prisoners killing each other? Have you not hear of violence and rape in cities like Detroit and Las Vegas?

ants or humans?

I choose humans

If it makes him/her feel better and she/he therefore does not commit evil against humans...than it is the right way.

Murdering is murdering even if its ants you are killing.
I'm close to choosing animals over humans, but that's my problem I guess..

Unless they're Chechens, in which case the normal rules don't apply, whether they're queer or straight, it doesn't matter. Sexuality simply isn't a consideration if they're Chechens.

Unless they're Chechens, in which case the normal rules don't apply, whether they're queer or straight, it doesn't matter. Sexuality simply isn't a consideration if they're Chechens.

exactly. :p

Draqon, how do you feel about bullfighting ?

Draqon, how do you feel about bullfighting ?

useless expenditure of time.

What the hell are Chechens ?

useless expenditure of time.

But it helps the bullfighter, so it's ok right ?

What the hell are Chechens ?

http://www.sciforums.com/encyclopedia/Chechnya

But it helps the bullfighter, so it's ok right ?

hmmm...thing is, it doesnt really help the bullfighter...he just does that because he like the art. I mean if he did it or not...it does not matter since humans are not affected by his actions.

http://www.sciforums.com/encyclopedia/Chechnya

Oh crap, I better don't get into that lol

hmmm...thing is, it doesnt really help the bullfighter...he just does that because he like the art. I mean if he did it or not...it does not matter since humans are not affected by his actions.

He gets payed..
Anyhow, how does stepping on ants help people then ?

Oh crap, I better don't get into that lol

yeah you better not. :p

He gets payed..
Anyhow, how does stepping on ants help people then ?

it takes away anger and stress from human...who could have used that anger and stress on other humans which has a great potential in resulting in infliction of pain on others or death.

it takes away anger and stress from human...who could have used that anger and stress on other humans which has a great potential in resulting in infliction of pain on others or death.

Such people should get into therapy. And don't you think there are other ways to relieve the stress without hurting animals ? Like i said, kick a rock or something or punch a wall..

Such people should get into therapy. And don't you think there are other ways to relieve the stress without hurting animals ? Like i said, kick a rock or something or punch a wall..

you hit a rock...you feel pain...

I really cannot explain to you the psychology of human individuals...as pain inflicted on ants/animals by humans is that cast pain on these humans by other humans...they just mirror that pain they received unto animals.

If someone was to kill, would you ask me to justify his killing? And what if there was logic? What would stop me from killing? So therefore I cannot explain to you why they do such as kill ants.

Accept it and live with it because it is better choice than the rest.

you hit a rock...you feel pain...

I really cannot explain to you the psychology of human individuals...as pain inflicted on ants/animals by humans is that cast pain on these humans by other humans...they just mirror that pain they received unto animals.

If someone was to kill, would you ask me to justify his killing? And what if there was logic? What would stop me from killing? So therefore I cannot explain to you why they do such as kill ants.

Accept it and live with it because it is better choice than the rest.

A small rock of course.. :p

Hey, everyone gets pissed off sometimes. Maybe the people that like to take it out on an animal also take it out on their wife.

I see absolutely NO logic in killing an ant because you have stress. Just because insects are small doesn't mean they deserve less respect. Would you have said the same things if the title of the thread was "Should we care about the life of a deer" ?

I will not accept it. The best choice is to point it out to these people that what they are doing isn't right and hope you reach one or two.

Should we care about the life of an ant? No.

Should we care about the life of an ant? No.

Should I care about you ?

I will not accept it. The best choice is to point it out to these people that what they are doing isn't right and hope you reach one or two.

Yeah I would have said same thing. I say if it takes out pain within a human...psychological pain...than go do it...kill the deer to save the human.

Should I care about you ?

yes, he/she is human...he/she has genetic information that can be favorable to existence of human civilization further evolution.

Yeah I would have said same thing. I say if it takes out pain within a human...psychological pain...than go do it...kill the deer to save the human.

Well, I don't think a lot of people would agree with you when it's about a deer instead of an ant.

Well, I don't think a lot of people would agree with you when it's about a deer instead of an ant.

...we are are talking here between a choice of a humand or something else.

Anything else...but not a human.

yes, he/she is human...he/she has genetic information that can be favorable to existence of human civilization further evolution.

So why should I care ? We don't need anymore people with that mindset, destroying nature is destroying mankind.

...we are are talking here between a choice of a humand or something else.

Anything else...but not a human.

What I meant is, people are hypocrites. It's ok to step on an ant but 'oh no don't kill that cute little bunny.. '.

People draw an arbitrary line somewhere where they don't have to care about the animals 'below' it. It's hypocritical.

What I meant is, people are hypocrites. It's ok to step on an ant but 'oh no don't kill that cute little bunny.. '.

well I am not a hypocrite. I am human also, as well.

well I am not a hypocrite. I am human also, as well.

Most people are. I applaud that you are not, but I still don't get how you can agree with someone killing a deer because he is stressed out.

Most people are. I applaud that you are not, but I still don't get how you can agree with someone killing a deer because he is stressed out.

because he could have killed a human instead.

because he could have killed a human instead.

Because he was stresses out !? :bugeye:
If that were true he belongs behind bars, he's mentally unstable or a psychopath.

Because he was stresses out !? :bugeye:
If that were true he belongs behind bars, he's mentally unstable or a psychopath.

you would be surprised how many people are mentally unstable. There will be not enough bars to hold them all.

you would be surprised how many people are mentally unstable. There will be not enough bars to hold them all.

Unfortunately your are right, but it still doesn't make it right to kill an animal because you are stressed out.

I agree that it may be more favorable to let the lunatic kill kill an ant instead of a human, but both killings are wrong.

Unfortunately your are right, but it still doesn't make it right to kill an animal because you are stressed out.

I agree that it may be more favorable to let the lunatic kill kill an ant instead of a human, but both killings are wrong.

you cannot live like Buddha, floating above the world. Exerting no force on the world. You kill bacteria every day...why do you lessen bacteria lifes below ants lifes? just because bacteria are small...you lessen them?

Should I care about you ?
No.

...but both killings are wrong.
No, they're not. Ants are simple biological automata, no more worthy of "care" or respect than a chunk of construction debris.

you cannot live like Buddha, floating above the world. Exerting no force on the world. You kill bacteria every day...why do you lessen bacteria lifes below ants lifes? just because bacteria are small...you lessen them?

I'm talking about intentional killing for no good purpose.
If your house is invested with wasps because there is a wasps nest on the porch you can have them exterminated. But if you are taking a walk in the forest and you see a mushroom it is not alright to step on it just for the fun of it. But if you step on it by accident it's alright.

No, they're not. Ants are simple biological automata, no more worthy of "care" or respect than a chunk of construction debris.

Do you know what biological means ? It's LIFE and it's to be respected.

But if you are taking a walk in the forest and you see a mushroom it is not alright to step on it just for the fun of it. But if you step on it by accident it's alright.

What person could only be helped by stepping on mushrooms !? :bugeye:
What mental illness would require that !!!?

What person could only be helped by stepping on mushrooms !? :bugeye:
What mental illness would require that !!!?

Exactly my point... what are you trying to say ?

Exactly my point... what are you trying to say ?

quoting your words. :p

So eating or not eating humans is a matter of personal choice.


I'll refer you to my 1st post in this thread--my opinion hasn't changed: "As for the morality of eating human flesh, I'd say that there's nothing immoral about it but most people find the practice distasteful." Avoid the brains though.

quoting your words. :p

Ok... :shrug:

I'll refer you to my 1st post in this thread--my opinion hasn't changed: "As for the morality of eating human flesh, I'd say that there's nothing immoral about it but most people find the practice distasteful." Avoid the brains though.

I couldn't disagree more, that's horrible...

I couldn't disagree more, that's horrible...

Perhaps but is it immoral? Do you owe a moral obligation to a corpse?

Perhaps but is it immoral? Do you owe a moral obligation to a corpse?No, once a person is dead the body is useless. I am a Christian however and to cannibalize is a sin.

I step on ants all the time. Crush their little lives right out of them. Is this wrong?
Depends.
Ants can be destructive, and their presence in a home can be construed as likewise destructive. Thus, killing and harming them in that context can be considered a form of pre-emptive self-defence, and is therefore justified ethically.

Random, wanton slaughter and genocide of a colony of ants in the wild?
It's ethically unsound and potentially disasterous to its ecosystem.

No, once a person is dead the body is useless. I am a Christian however and to cannibalize is a sin.

I guess you're not a Catholic since as far as I know eating the flesh of Jesus is still a part of the mass. But that aside, I'm not sure what prohibits any Christian from eating human flesh. There's a prohibition against it in Leviticus but there's a prohibition aginst eating shellfish too and the latter doesn't seem to matter.

ants are an excellent source of protein

poor ant. it goes to show larger doesn't mean smarter just look at the contents of this thread. Some idiots enjoying squashing ants and coming up with all kinds of inane justifications.

poor ant. it goes to show larger doesn't mean smarter just look at the contents of this thread. Some idiots enjoying squashing ants and coming up with all kinds of inane justifications.

Such is the state of humanity, sadly.. but not surprisingly.

I guess you're not a Catholic since as far as I know eating the flesh of Jesus is still a part of the mass. But that aside, I'm not sure what prohibits any Christian from eating human flesh. There's a prohibition against it in Leviticus but there's a prohibition aginst eating shellfish too and the latter doesn't seem to matter.

No, I'm not Catholic nor do I claim my self to any one form that segregates Christianity; I am a Christian.

The breaking of the bread was a symbol of his body that was to be given for us. Jesus asked them to do this in remembrance of him. “This is my body given for you; do this in remembrance of me.” In the same way, Jesus took the cup, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in my blood, which is poured out for you”.

Cannibalism is expressed in the Bible as a punishment from God- Deuteronomy 28:53-57, Jeremiah 19:9, Ezek 5:10.

[QUOTE=Dunn11x;1553857]No, I'm not Catholic nor do I claim my self to any one form that segregates Christianity; I am a Christian.

The breaking of the bread was a symbol of his body that was to be given for us. Jesus asked them to do this in remembrance of him. “This is my body given for you; do this in remembrance of me.” In the same way, Jesus took the cup, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in my blood, which is poured out for you”.
QUOTE]

Not to Catholics. I suggest you look up transubstantiation. And yes cannablism is seen as a curse because you have to be pretty freaking hungry before you engage in it, but it doesn't say that it is something to be punished for. You can interpet the Bible however you want but I see no prohibition against it.

Do you know what biological means ? It's LIFE and it's to be respected.
Why? Just because it's made of organic compounds? What if I make a tiny robot made of aluminum that mimics the behavior of an ant?

What about LIFE do you respect? Its molecules? Its consciousness? What about bacteria (as someone else pointed out)? Or fungi? Or grass? Or plankton?

The OP asks if we care about the life of an ant. Do you care about the life of an ant? Or any of the things I mentioned above?

It is my belief that the eating of the bread and the drinking of the wine is to be a symbol for accepting his sacrifice as well as to remember what he did for us.

It is my belief that the crushing of the ants and the smashing of the slugs is to be a symbol for how damn good it is not to be an ant or a slug.

What about LIFE do you respect? Its molecules? Its consciousness? What about bacteria (as someone else pointed out)? Or fungi? Or grass? Or plankton?

We should respect the life that God created because it is Gods creation, which was made for us. And to destroy it would be like receiving a Gift and destroying it.

We should respect the life that God created because it is Gods creation, which was made for us. And to destroy it would be like receiving a Gift and destroying it.
Unfortunately for you, there is no god so your entire worldview is just a dipsy-doodle fantasy.

Plus, I've recieved a number of gifts I later destroyed. It was fun.

Believe what you choose to believe.

Believe what you choose to believe.
Done and done.

It doesn't matter if you step on an ant by mistake or if they threaten you (they invade your house) because they are lower life forms. Human lives have more Value.

However, you can't use your free will to kill ants if they don't threaten you because they have feelings too. You are also not allowed to kill trees and plants, but it's ok if you use them to build a house or give a flowers to a girl.

It doesn't matter if you step on an ant by mistake or if they threaten you (they invade your house) because they are lower life forms. Human lives have more Value.

However, you can't use your free will to kill ants if they don't threaten you because they have feelings too. You are also not allowed to kill trees and plants, but it's ok if you use them to build a house or give a flowers to a girl.
That is sooo nice!

I used to put lengths of waterproof fuse down ant holes and light it. Ahhh... those were the days.

this just boils down to exercise of power or doing something just because they 'can' excuse. Well, they are right as no one can make them have a conscience. That's that but that doesn't change the fact they are an asshole. LOL.

...but that doesn't change the fact they are an asshole. LOL.

Excuse me, but I am an ass, not an asshole. A hole is the absence of matter in an object (an ass for example, or a doughnut).

It doesn't matter if you step on an ant by mistake or if they threaten you (they invade your house) because they are lower life forms. Human lives have more Value.

However, you can't use your free will to kill ants if they don't threaten you because they have feelings too. You are also not allowed to kill trees and plants, but it's ok if you use them to build a house or give a flowers to a girl.

I agree with most of what you said but not with ants having feelings. I don't know if you mean emotional or physical. If you meant feelings as in physical feeling, then I agree.

Excuse me, but I am an ass, not an asshole. A hole is the absence of matter in an object (an ass for example, or a doughnut).

your hole is gaping as you lack a heart or conscience. ass-hole.

your hole is gaping as you lack a heart or conscience. so ass-hole.
Ah yes. I stand corrected. Thank you.

I agree with most of what you said but not with ants having feelings. I don't know if you mean emotional or physical. If you meant feelings as in physical feeling, then I agree.
Wasn't the part about it being OK to murder flowers for a girlfriend nice?

"Dead" matter (rocks, ice, water etc.) is the only thing that you can destroy just to destroy and have fun. Of course, the same rule still applies if you do it too much... for example, you are not allowed to destroy Mount Everest or take away all the water from the earth.

Other than God's creations, there are also things created by humans that you are not allowed to destroy. Like beautiful paintings and computers. Special things.

The interesting thing here is that... the reason why you can't destroy them is not because they (the atoms) have feelings but because there are humans who have feelings for them...

I agree with most of what you said but not with ants having feelings. I don't know if you mean emotional or physical. If you meant feelings as in physical feeling, then I agree.

I meant physical. If they have emotional feelings doesn't really matter because we couldn't hurt them emotionally anyway.

I think Yorda was being sarcastic, I'm not sure if plucking flowers is technically considered murder. But, if it is, I think it's a noble sacrifice.

The interesting thing here is that... the reason why you can't destroy them is not because they (the atoms) have feelings but because there are humans who have feelings for them.... Ha, yea that is pretty interesting.

I meant physical. If they have emotional feelings doesn't really matter because we couldn't hurt them emotionally anyway.
I don’t know...seeing your queen die could be quite stressful.

"Dead" matter (rocks, ice, water etc.) is the only thing that you can destroy just to destroy and have fun. Of course, the same rule still applies if you do it too much... for example, you are not allowed to destroy Mount Everest or take away all the water from the earth. Yes, but not because destroying too much is wrong, but rather because doing so would take away from us. And, needless to say, it is still Gods creation, so I would say to destroy for the sake of fulfilling ones darker side is wrong all together.

I think Yorda was being sarcastic, I'm not sure if plucking flowers is technically considered murder. But, if it is, I think it's a noble sacrifice.

I didn't say it was murder... murder is if you kill a human. Even if you kill an animal, it's not murder. Otherwise most people would be murderers because they eat animals.

I didn't say it was murder... murder is if you kill a human. Even if you kill an animal, it's not murder. Otherwise most people would be murderers because they eat animals.

That is murder. There's lots of things done that are disgusting but it is what it is. It doesn't make it something else because we say it's so. i think someone mentioned in a different thread the killing of cats is disgusting because we are taught. No, it's because it is and we're aware of it. If we are on the receiving end of heinous actions, it doesn't make it any less disgusting because another is not in our place and isn't experiencing it. This is not an ideal universe but we have the power to do or make some remedies within our power and that's all we can and should do, determine our actions .

The positive thing is humans have the power to provide a decent and happy life for them and kill them humanely but most don't. That's what's messed up.

lol, darrhh

The interesting thing here is that... the reason why you can't destroy them is not because they (the atoms) have feelings but because there are humans who have feelings for them...

It is interesting and a good explanation for why it may be immoral to kill someone's pet but not immoral to kill ants.

It is interesting and a good explanation for why it may be immoral to kill someone's pet but not immoral to kill ants.

It's amazing how we determine what is right and what is wrong.

It's amazing how we determine what is right and what is wrong.

Most of the time its insane

lol, darrhh

what? i was replying to yorda's belief that killing animals is not murder.

what? i was replying to yorda's belief that killing animals is not murder.
Yea I know, I was replying to yorda too, but your post went through first.

Why? Just because it's made of organic compounds? What if I make a tiny robot made of aluminum that mimics the behavior of an ant?

Why ? Because life is to beautiful to destroy, it's a wonder of nature. You are life as well so why would you deceive your own heritage ?
A robot isn't life, is it...


What about LIFE do you respect? Its molecules? Its consciousness? What about bacteria (as someone else pointed out)? Or fungi? Or grass? Or plankton?

Yes, all life.


The OP asks if we care about the life of an ant. Do you care about the life of an ant? Or any of the things I mentioned above?

Yes, I care about ants or any other life form. And so should you.

We should respect the life that God created because it is Gods creation, which was made for us. And to destroy it would be like receiving a Gift and destroying it.

We should respect the life that nature created because it is natures creation, which was NOT made for us. So we have no business destroying it.

If you had to kill an ant to save a spider, would you?
What about several ants (they're attacking the spider, maybe)?

If you had to kill an ant to save a spider, would you?
What about several ants (they're attacking the spider, maybe)?

No, I wouldn't. But I would step aside to avoid stepping on a snail for example.

Only if the ant was in my pants.

Only if the ant was in my pants.

To save the spider in your pants ? :eek:

No, I wouldn't. But I would step aside to avoid stepping on a snail for example.
If you had to step aside to avoid stepping on a snail but there's only one other place to step and that's on a slug... would you?

As a moral pointer, one owns it's own house and the other doesn't.

If you had to step aside to avoid stepping on a snail but there's only one other place to step and that's on a slug... would you?

As a moral pointer, one owns it's own house and the other doesn't.

That's not much of a choice, is it ?

Yeah, I know. Life sucks, doesn't it? So choose.

Slug.

Why? What have you got against homeless drifters?

Yeah, I know. Life sucks, doesn't it? So choose.

The choice would be arbitrary and quite besides the point.
But if you insist, I'll choose to step on the snail and make sure it's dead.

That is murder.

so 90% of all humans are murderers? why don't we send them to prison then, like all other murderers?

because killing animals for food is not murder, and the reason it's not murder is because animals have less value than humans.

this is all god's fault though. if he hadn't created animals we wouldn't have needed to kill them.

so 90% of all humans are murderers? why don't we send them to prison then, like all other murderers?

because killing animals for food is not murder, and the reason it's not murder is because animals have less value than humans.

this is all god's fault though. if he hadn't created animals we wouldn't have needed to kill them.

I think it would be wise for me not to respond to this..

don't blame me if you don't like my posts, i hate them too, but it's not my fault that god had no choice but to create the eternal me to say stupid things. all i wanted was to stay in my nothing, but it didn't exist so i have no choice but you might as well blame me because you didn't have a choice either. if he hadn't created ants no one would have to step on them.

don't blame me if you don't like my posts, i hate them too, but it's not my fault that god had no choice but to create the eternal me to say stupid things. all i wanted was to stay in my nothing, but it didn't exist so i have no choice but you might as well blame me because you didn't have a choice either. if he hadn't created ants no one would have to step on them.

Sigh..
You DON'T have to step on them on purpose !
And animals DO NOT have less value than humans ! :mad:

you have to step on them by mistake and animals have less value because they have less consciousness. if they don't have less value why don't we treat them like humans? why do we eat them?

i still don't understand why you don't understand that you want to die. if you were dead you wouldn't have needed to read these words that makes you angry. and if i was dead i wouldn't have needed to write them.

death is heaven, so it doesn't matter if we kill. but no matter how much we kill we still can't die... we still can't go to heaven, so we might as well do nothing, because we can never become nothing. nothing matters so everything might as well matter

Sigh..
You DON'T have to step on them on purpose !
And animals DO NOT have less value than humans ! :mad:

they do have less value. If I had a choice who to save...bunch of ants burning within a house on fire...or my lil human friend...I would choose my lil human friend. Her hair is silk, I love to smell it.

you have to step on them by mistake and animals have less value because they have less consciousness. if they don't have less value why don't we treat them like humans? why do we eat them?

Yes, 'by mistake' is something else than 'on purpose'.
I don't see why less consciousness automatically means less value.
Do wild animals treat humans differently than a fellow species ?
Do wild animals not eat humans on occasion ?


i still don't understand why you don't understand that you want to die. if you were dead you wouldn't have needed to read these words that makes you angry. and if i was dead i wouldn't have needed to write them.

:confused: alrighty then..


death is heaven, so it doesn't matter if we kill. but no matter how much we kill we still can't die... we still can't go to heaven, so we might as well do nothing, because we can never become nothing. nothing matters so everything might as well matter

..
Ok so if everything matters, an ants life matters too. Right ?

the things i say... i don't even believe them... i just say so that we could have something to discuss...

Ok so if everything matters, an ants life matters too. Right ?

it's better to kill a human than an ant because humans suffer more. ants are happy.

I don't see why less consciousness automatically means less value.

if you have less consciousness you have less stuff... like computers and photographs...

the things i say... i don't even believe them... i just say so that we could have something to discuss...



it's better to kill a human than an ant because humans suffer more. ants are happy.



if you have less consciousness you have less stuff... like computers and photographs...

If you are going to continue saying stuff you don't even believe yourself, don't bother anymore... :bugeye:
This has obviously become a meaningless discussion.

What DO you believe ?

the things i say... i don't even believe them... i just say so that we could have something to discuss...



it's better to kill a human than an ant because humans suffer more. ants are happy.



if you have less consciousness you have less stuff... like computers and photographs...


lol Im glad you dont believe any of this :D

"i don't discuss because i think different, i think different so that i can discuss"

If you are going to continue saying stuff you don't even believe yourself, don't bother anymore... :bugeye:
This has obviously become a meaningless discussion.

but i don't want to make you angry so i had to reveal that. but if you don't like it, just think... maybe i was lying? or why not just pretend you didn't hear it?

What DO you believe ?

there is only one thing i believe... but i believe it so much that it's not a belief, it's a fact. i wanted to believe in nothing, death... but i can't stop believing in rebirth because it's a fact, so i have to believe in everything.

there is only one thing i believe... but i believe it so much that it's not a belief, it's a fact. i wanted to believe in nothing, death... but i can't stop believing in rebirth because it's a fact, so i have to believe in everything.


???:bugeye:

Who pronounces aunt and ant the same?

Who pronounces aunt and ant the same?

My aunt's ants

not me and my friends make fun of me for it

Who pronounces aunt and ant the same?
Who doesn't?

Who doesn't?


Those who have the ability to see U's?

Those who have the ability to see U's?
And posh people. I could name a thousand word pairs that should sound identical but don't. Stop pretending that there are rules.

Who pronounces aunt and ant the same?

Dec?

aunt-ant, aunt-ahnt. Technically aunt should be pronounced ahnt or awnt but I have always pronounced it the same as ant. It depends on where you live. It's a dialect thing, no?

It's posh or not posh. Pick a side.

I am not even close to posh

aunt-ant, aunt-ahnt. Technically aunt should be pronounced ahnt or awnt but I have always pronounced it the same as ant. It depends on where you live. It's a dialect thing, no?

"au" = "a" lAUghter.
"au" = "or" flAUnt.

Ant = proper.
Awnt = posh. (or wannabe).

Auntie

this is so off topic its ridiculous

im telling my awnt

Auntie

Yeah, I'm against it as well.

Auntie
Correct, pronounced 'Anty'. Even 'ant' (aunt) is posh.

they do have less value. If I had a choice who to save...bunch of ants burning within a house on fire...or my lil human friend...I would choose my lil human friend. Her hair is silk, I love to smell it.

Of course you would or should anyways; pertaining to people who wouldn't. Human lives are more valuable than any animal; I don't believe Humans to be animals despite our stance in science.

But, the real question that I think this thread is about (my opinion), is whether or not you should step on one because you just feel like it.

"au" = "a" lAUghter.
"au" = "or" flAUnt.

nAUghty

I could name a thousand word pairs that should sound identical but don't.

english is a weird language. in my language words always sound like the letters.

But, the real question that I think this thread is about (my opinion), is whether or not you should step on one because you just feel like it.

I wont, but I do poke anthills with a stick to see them move around

english is a weird language. in my language words always sound like the letters.

So you miss all the fun when Americans come along and try to pronounce Leicestershire, Worcester, Aisthorpe... :D

Dang, Oli...that first one is a mouthful :)

Leeee-cester-shyrrrre..

Betcha can't get the last one either. :)
1st is pronounced "lester-sher" - the county of which Leicester (Lester) is the county town.

Leeee-cester-shyrrrre..

LYE sester shYre...

or when non japanese people try to pronounce

atatakakunakata

or when japanese people try to pronounce Mcdonalds

I crush ants whenever they become bothersome to my immediate presence, or I'm just bored and feel like killing something. Why? Because I'm bigger than them and I can. Ants are puny, insignificant insects that I am thousands of times larger than. I'm not religious. Ants do not contribute to my life. They're more of a pest than anything. They don't offer me any reason to spare them. So I exercise my power of size over them and squash them just because I feel like it. What can I say... it's good to be big. What difference does it make?

The truth is this. As long as I don't believe in reincarnation, why is it wrong for me to demolish as many anthills as I like. Even though I'm not religious, there is still no moral obligation for me to revere ants just because they are alive. I am huge in comparison to them, and therefore more powerful and more important. It doesn't matter whether these puny things get killed by a flood or whether they are a tiny, liquid substance on the bottom of my feet.

They're just ants.

or when non japanese people try to pronounce

atatakakunakata

Most don't even pronounce "katana" properly... :shrug:

I crush ants whenever they become bothersome to my immediate presence, or I'm just bored and feel like killing something. Why? Because I'm bigger than them and I can. Ants are puny, insignificant insects that I am thousands of times larger than. I'm not religious. Ants do not contribute to my life. They're more of a pest than anything. They don't offer me any reason to spare them. So I exercise my power of size over them and squash them just because I feel like it. What can I say... it's good to be big. What difference does it make?

The truth is this. As long as I don't believe in reincarnation, why is it wrong for me to demolish as many anthills as I like. Even though I'm not religious, there is still no moral obligation for me to revere ants just because they are alive. I am huge in comparison to them, and therefore more powerful and more important. It doesn't matter whether these puny things get killed by a flood or whether they are a tiny, liquid substance on the bottom of my feet.

They're just ants.



Well, I believe that sets a precident for treating those with less power than you as inferior, if you were rich and powerful would you see other human beings as bothersome and crush them in the same manner? Why kill them when you could just as easily not kill them?

Of course you would or should anyways; pertaining to people who wouldn't. Human lives are more valuable than any animal; I don't believe Humans to be animals despite our stance in science.

But, the real question that I think this thread is about (my opinion), is whether or not you should step on one because you just feel like it.

well obviously no.

But...if it takes away the anger you would have released on people...than yes.

well obviously no.

But...if it takes away the anger you would have released on people...than yes.


just like if you had a bad day and there are no ants around, hit your kids they are way smaller than you.

well obviously no.

But...if it takes away the anger you would have released on people...than yes.

Though I would say it's good not to hurt someone, you still should give in to anger in anyway.

Becuase the more you give in, the greater it will grow.

Of course you would or should anyways; pertaining to people who wouldn't.

Of course one would, it's because we give precedence to our own species.. I believe evolution has a little something to do with that.


Human lives are more valuable than any animal; I don't believe Humans to be animals despite our stance in science.

No, human life may have more value to other humans but in essence human have no greater value than any other animal.
Humans are animals no matter what you want to believe.


But, the real question that I think this thread is about (my opinion), is whether or not you should step on one because you just feel like it.

You are right. It is despicable to kill an animal just because you feel like it.

"i don't discuss because i think different, i think different so that i can discuss"

but i don't want to make you angry so i had to reveal that. but if you don't like it, just think... maybe i was lying? or why not just pretend you didn't hear it?

there is only one thing i believe... but i believe it so much that it's not a belief, it's a fact. i wanted to believe in nothing, death... but i can't stop believing in rebirth because it's a fact, so i have to believe in everything.

Can't you see that conveying and defending a viewpoint that you don't even hold for true makes a discussion meaningless ? If you don't have anything to say about the topic you should stay out of the discussion.
So what do you think about the topic ? Should we care about the life of an ant ?

No, human life may have more value to other humans but in essence human have no greater value than any other animal. Humans are animals no matter what you want to believe. Well that's your opinion and I disagree.

Well that's your opinion and I disagree.

Thats generally agreed to be scientific fact. :)

Just because scientists believe that to be true doesn't mean it is.

Just because scientists believe that to be true doesn't mean it is.



animal-
A multicellular organism of the kingdom Animalia, differing from plants in certain typical characteristics such as capacity for locomotion, nonphotosynthetic metabolism, pronounced response to stimuli, restricted growth, and fixed bodily structure.

Main Entry: human
Function: noun
: a bipedal primate mammal of the genus Homo (H. sapiens) : MAN; broadly : any living or extinct member of the family Hominidae —hu·man·like /-"lIk/ adjective
Merriam-Webster's Medical Dictionary, © 2002 Merriam-Webster, Inc.

So a human is not a mammal Dunn11x ?

wait a mammal !!!!! thats part of the group of creatures classfied as animals!!!! EUREKA!!!!!

wait a mammal !!!!! thats part of the group of creatures classfied as animals!!!! EUREKA!!!!!

Yeap ;)

hu·man (hyōō'mən) Pronunciation Key
n.
1. A member of the genus Homo and especially of the species H. sapiens.

why would we care if the ants don't care. When I start seeing little ant funerals, then maybe I'll start caring.

why would we care if the ants don't care. When I start seeing little ant funerals, then maybe I'll start caring.

Will you start caring when there are no animals left anymore ? Humans cannot survive without animals, remove the animals and you kill the humans.

First hit:

"In his book The Diversity of Life, renowned entomologist Edward O. Wilson discusses the importance of insects and land-dwelling arthropods in the ecosystem, saying that "if [they] all were to disappear, humanity probably could not last more than a few months." Most other life forms, like amphibians, reptiles, birds, and mammals would also become extinct because of the domino effect that would occur in the food chain.

Many insects are herbivores, or plant-eaters, which makes them primary consumers. This abundance of primary consumers provides protein and energy for secondary consumers, known as carnivores. There are many secondary consumers, such as spiders, snakes, and toads that could not survive without feeding on insects. Tertiary consumers eat other carnivores; for example, bears and chimpanzees eat insects as well as other animals."
From: http://www.riverdeep.net/current/2002/03/030402t_insects.jhtml

Will you start caring when there are no animals left anymore ? Humans cannot survive without animals, remove the animals and you kill the humans.

I am not gonna care about any 1 ant. EVER!!! I will care about all ants, but an ant. NOPE! NEVER! NOT GONNA HAPPEN!!
In fact, think I want an ant rug. <squish> ah, look at that. I now have an ant rug in front of my keyboard. Tomorrow, its mosquito earrings. Rolley-polley bugs...they're next.

I am not gonna care about any 1 ant. EVER!!! I will care about all ants, but an ant. NOPE! NEVER! NOT GONNA HAPPEN!!
In fact, think I want an ant rug. <squish> ah, look at that. I now have an ant rug in front of my keyboard. Tomorrow, its mosquito earrings. Rolley-polley bugs...they're next.

So why is it ok to kill an animal just for the fun of it ?

So why is it ok to kill an animal just for the fun of it ?

Because they're just ants. Why is it not okay?

Well, I believe that sets a precident for treating those with less power than you as inferior, if you were rich and powerful would you see other human beings as bothersome and crush them in the same manner? Why kill them when you could just as easily not kill them?

It's just as easy to kill them as not kill them too. I just need to lift my feet.

Because they're just ants. Why is it not okay?

Is it ok for me to kill your cat ?

I don't have a cat. But if I did own a cat, and I had an emotional attachment to that cat, I'd say no.

Do you have an emotional attachment to the ants I crush?

So why is it ok to kill an animal just for the fun of it ?

Depends on what you mean by OK. It reflects poorly on the person doing so, since it's the sort of behavior I would expect from a 8 year old and it seems like a waste of time and energy, but I can't see anything immoral about it.

Is it ok for me to kill your cat ?

No, as someone else pointed out it would hurt me (if I did have a cat) and therefore you are acting immorally. You have a moral obligation to other people but not to ants.

If you believe we (as humans) have a moral obligation to ants, where does that obligation end? Is it immoral for me to pick up food off my floor because I am depriving ants of sustenance? Is it immoral to have an exterminator come to rid my house of carpenter ants (they're ants too, at least I think so)?

So a human is not a mammal Dunn11x ?

lol, yes in that we breath oxygen, give live birth, and are warm blooded, but I just don’t think it’s right to classify us as animals. God created humans in his image, not animals.

not everyone agrees with science so they shouldn't have the right to create stupid definitions* that everyone has to agree with.

*"humans are animals (although they're completely different)", "pluto is not a planet"

not everyone agrees with science so they shouldn't have the right to create stupid definitions* that everyone has to agree with.

*"humans are animals (although they're completely different)", "pluto is not a planet"

Amen!

It's not insane like some people are saying. I just get a kick out of stepping on ants. It's amusing to watch them try to escape from being crushed so easily.

obviously insects that live within our domain stand the chance of being crushed underfoot, I will actively try to not step on insects if I see them, that's me though, it probably stems from having lived through a house collapse that crushed me and it's a thought I don't relish for any creature.

It's not insane like some people are saying. I just get a kick out of stepping on ants. It's amusing to watch them try to escape from being crushed so easily.

Wow nice personality you must have :bugeye:

lol, yes in that we breath oxygen, give live birth, and are warm blooded, but I just don’t think it’s right to classify us as animals. God created humans in his image, not animals.

Can we please leave God out of this for once ? Try to think on your own for a while.

I step on ants all the time. Crush their little lives right out of them. Is this wrong?

why should we when some people dont even care about the life of a child??

Depends on what you mean by OK. It reflects poorly on the person doing so, since it's the sort of behavior I would expect from a 8 year old and it seems like a waste of time and energy, but I can't see anything immoral about it.

Well for starters it makes one wonder what sort of person would enjoy killing little defense animals. I don't think I would readily trust such a person with anything else.


No, as someone else pointed out it would hurt me (if I did have a cat) and therefore you are acting immorally. You have a moral obligation to other people but not to ants.

You have a 'moral' obligation to life in general.


If you believe we (as humans) have a moral obligation to ants, where does that obligation end? Is it immoral for me to pick up food off my floor because I am depriving ants of sustenance? Is it immoral to have an exterminator come to rid my house of carpenter ants (they're ants too, at least I think so)?

The obligation is to let nature runs it's course as much as possible. If you step on an ant by accident it's ok, you can't help that. You can pick up the food and calling an exterminator is ok too.
Just don't hurt or kill animals on purpose for no good reason.

It's interesting that you ask about where to draw the line. I can turn that around and ask you at what size animal it becomes immoral to just kill it for fun.

why should we when some people dont even care about the life of a child??

I think you will find that people that won't kill animals for fun also care about other people more than a person that kills little defenseless animals for fun.

obviously insects that live within our domain stand the chance of being crushed underfoot, I will actively try to not step on insects if I see them, that's me though, it probably stems from having lived through a house collapse that crushed me and it's a thought I don't relish for any creature.

Well that's me too. You can't help stepping on insects by accident.

It's interesting that you ask about where to draw the line. I can turn that around and ask you at what size animal it becomes immoral to just kill it for fun.

And I can answer quite easily, human beings (my own species). I owe a moral obligation to them because I expect the same behavior from them and any one who breaks that social contract is immoral (not to mention criminal). If I'm attacked and killed by a lion because it perceives my actions as threatening when they are not intended to be I don't think anyone is going to say that lion was immoral.

I don't hunt but I can't say it's immoral if someone wants to kill an elephant. It may be illegal. It may (as I said) reflect poorly on the character of the person doing it. It may be a senseless waste of time. But I don't believe it's immoral.

And I can answer quite easily, human beings (my own species). I owe a moral obligation to them because I expect the same behavior from them and any one who breaks that social contract is immoral (not to mention criminal). If I'm attacked and killed by a lion because it perceives my actions as threatening when they are not intended to be I don't think anyone is going to say that lion was immoral.

I don't hunt but I can't say it's immoral if someone wants to kill an elephant. It may be illegal. It may (as I said) reflect poorly on the character of the person doing it. It may be a senseless waste of time. But I don't believe it's immoral.

Lions don't have any morality, humans do.
What if I start shooting deer in the forest until there were none left, what would you say about that ?
Or say, a large group of people decided that animals have no place on earth anymore. And decide to go kill them all off, all of them. Would you say that is immoral ?

Ecosystems are already under tremendous pressure because of pollution and human activity. I don't think the world needs people that think it's just dandy to go kill any animal you want for the kicks of it.
Maybe it's not viewed as immoral by the majority of people but I really think it should.

Let me ask you one more thing.
If you saw your kid crushing ants would you teach him not to do it ? And why not to do it ?

Lions don't have any morality, humans do.
What if I start shooting deer in the forest until there were none left, what would you say about that ?
Or say, a large group of people decided that animals have no place on earth anymore. And decide to go kill them all off, all of them. Would you say that is immoral ?

Ecosystems are already under tremendous pressure because of pollution and human activity. I don't think the world needs people that think it's just dandy to go kill any animal you want for the kicks of it.
Maybe it's not viewed as immoral by the majority of people but I really think it should.

Let me ask you one more thing.
If you saw your kid crushing ants would you teach him not to do it ? And why not to do it ?


people kill ants and other life forms every day just by walking about! should we not go out? should we all invent hover boards?

Sigh.. people please read.
I said that it's wrong to hurt or kill animals on purpose without any good reason.

people kill ants and other life forms every day just by walking about! should we not go out? should we all invent hover boards?

If you saw your kid crushing ants would you teach him not to do it ? And why not to do it ?

Lions don't have any morality, humans do.

Agree with you there. Hence I don't owe any moral obligation to lions.


What if I start shooting deer in the forest until there were none left, what would you say about that ?
Or say, a large group of people decided that animals have no place on earth anymore. And decide to go kill them all off, all of them. Would you say that is immoral ?

In the first case, I'd say you were stupid and possibly deranged but I wouldn't say your actions were inherently immoral if the person was not otherwise harming other people. In the 2nd, again I'd say the action is immoral only if it can be shown to negatively impact other human beings (which wouldn't be hard to demonstrate).

Let me ask you one more thing.
If you saw your kid crushing ants would you teach him not to do it ? And why not to do it ?

If it wasn't my kid I'd leave him alone. If it was my daughter I would try to find out why she was doing it (was she feeling ineffective, unable to control her life, etc?) and address the problem. In neither case would my concern be about the aunts.

Do you want to ask some more questions so I can continue to give you the same answer?

What type of ant? Name the species (colloquial names are just fine with me).

Fire ant?

Fire ant?

Bad. If they sting me, you bet I'll act in self defense. Same thing goes for those damn carpenter ants -- nearly as bad as termites.

If you saw your kid crushing ants would you teach him not to do it ? And why not to do it ?

If they have a huge home that I can see in our lawn, they are dead. If they are in the driveway or sidewalk, I don't care.
Did you just get done watching A Bugs Life or Ant Bully? :confused:

If they have a huge home that I can see in our lawn, they are dead. If they are in the driveway or sidewalk, I don't care.
Did you just get done watching A Bugs Life or Ant Bully? :confused:

The ant is just an example What if it happened to be something larger than an ant, a furry animal perhaps?

The ant is just an example What if it happened to be something larger than an ant, a furry animal perhaps?

I eat furry animals. I've butchered furry animals. I do care if they are tortured though.

You have a 'moral' obligation to life in general.


On whose authority do we have a "moral obligation" to life in general? Exactly what makes it wrong to kill ants?

The fact that you wouldnt want to be crushed to death might make you at least think that an ant might not want to be crushed to death

If they have a huge home that I can see in our lawn, they are dead. If they are in the driveway or sidewalk, I don't care.
Did you just get done watching A Bugs Life or Ant Bully? :confused:

You didn't answer the question, and no :p

On whose authority do we have a "moral obligation" to life in general? Exactly what makes it wrong to kill ants?

Authority ? Who needs authority for morality ? Are you saying you need morality to be enforced on you ? That's sad.
What makes it wrong to kill a human ?

You didn't answer the question, and no :p

Oh, no I didn't did I. If they were doing it in the yard, I wouldn't care. (Unless their dad was helping them because he has an unnatural addiction to fire :mad: ) If they were doing it in the driveway or sidewalk I'd tell them to leave them alone.

We had ants living in our garden. I let them be. I figured they weren't hurting anything. But they are NOT making big ol mounds in my yard!

Agree with you there. Hence I don't owe any moral obligation to lions.

Wrong, you do owe moral obligation to the lions because you are able to. A lion is not.


In the first case, I'd say you were stupid and possibly deranged but I wouldn't say your actions were inherently immoral if the person was not otherwise harming other people. In the 2nd, again I'd say the action is immoral only if it can be shown to negatively impact other human beings (which wouldn't be hard to demonstrate).

I'm truly appalled at your answers here..
You actually say it's alright to wipe out every last animal on the planet as long as it hasn't got any negative impact on humans.. !? :eek:


If it wasn't my kid I'd leave him alone. If it was my daughter I would try to find out why she was doing it (was she feeling ineffective, unable to control her life, etc?) and address the problem. In neither case would my concern be about the aunts.

Kids just do it for fun as they haven't fully developed their understanding of right and wrong yet. So, would you explain to your daughter why she shouldn't kill the ants ? And if so, how is that not a moral lesson ?


Do you want to ask some more questions so I can continue to give you the same answer?

So you don't have any better answers ? :rolleyes:

Sometimes human arrogance and feeling of self importance is disgusting to me

Oh, no I didn't did I. If they were doing it in the yard, I wouldn't care. (Unless their dad was helping them because he has an unnatural addiction to fire :mad: ) If they were doing it in the driveway or sidewalk I'd tell them to leave them alone.

We had ants living in our garden. I let them be. I figured they weren't hurting anything. But they are NOT making big ol mounds in my yard!

So if your kid was torturing ants in the driveway you would tell them to leave them alone. Why ?

Sometimes human arrogance and feeling of self importance is disgusting to me

Yup, it's sad really :(

So if your kid was torturing ants in the driveway you would tell them to leave them alone. Why ?

So she could laugh manically as she runs them over in her car :D