From another thread:

And why concentrate on violent crime? What about white collar crime, for example, which hurts far more people?

Because violent crime actually hurts people. Murder is a much greater crime than theft.

What about corporate crime? Corporate crime kills people in much larger numbers, but you don't seem worried about that.
Really. I don't recall any corporate drive by shootings. Please be specific on how corporate crime kills more people than all forms of violent crime combined.
To take one example, consider the sale of cigarettes.
So there you have it. Selling cigarretes is murder. It's worse than murder. At least that's one man's opinion. So what do you think? Should cigarettes be outlawed? How about other things that are bad for you like pot, heroin, and crispy cremes?

Go down this road and you will find nothing but unpleasantness. The moment the government starts taking it upon itself to tell you how to live your life, it will squeeze harder and harder until you are literally a prisoner within your own house. It is dangerous to let any man or thing believe that it can run your affairs better than you can.

If your goal is to keep all men safe, I demand that you chop off the limbs of all children at birth and keep them permanently suspended in darkness inside life support tanks until the day they die. Anything else would be hypocrisy.

It is easy to be hypocritical on this subject. On one hand, there is the reproduction of humans with inherited flaws from damaging substances.

Alternatively, getting drunk can be fun, smoking a cigarette while drinking alcohol is sometimes desired, and a tray of food that tastes good yet is unhealthy is hard to deny to a hungry appetite.

The other side of the coin is of course if some substances are legal should the use of the illegal substances really be punished severly?

Should someone smoking pot go to jail if drinking alcohol will have no consequences?

Should cigarettes be outlawed?
yes they should

How about other things that are bad for you like pot, heroin, and crispy cremes?
this can be a real problem, mainly because what is of benefit to some is deadly to others.

Hi all

cigarettes should definitely be outlawed....

it does not make sense that i can buy cigarettes from more places than i can by bread or parcetomal.

I am a smoker and i would ban them from being sold tomorrow... On top of this any one caught selling them illegally should have a 10 year sentence at least.

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take care
zak

This is all about political convenience, compromise and inconsistency.

The libertarian argument is red herring because governments already regulate with regard to health and safety.

The question is not therefore whether or not tobacco should be banned; it is why the sale of it should be an exception to the rule. According to an objective standard, apart from the historical perspective, it would cetainly not be allowed, except perhaps for the regulated sale of nicotine as an effective pesticide.

Hi

yes the goevernments (well at least the Uk one - which taxes them heavily) should PUT THERE MONEY WHERE THEIR MOUTH IS And ban them.

pure hipocrycy if you ask me
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take care
zak

The smoke from each cigarette contains, on average 16 milligrams or less of tar - condensed smoke containing many chemicals, including some that cause cancer; and 1.5 milligrams or less of nicotine - a poisonous and addictive drug; and 15 milligrams or less of carbon monoxide - a deadly gas that reduces the ability of the blood to carry oxygen.

Yes they should be banned immediately. We'll prolly be long dead before they are though.


Me and smoking. (http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?t=54994&page=1&pp=20&highlight=smoking+zealand)

Doesn't it depend on an informed public? If people are made aware of the negative impact smoking can have on thier health, shouldnt they be free to choose? The danger is when companies making money out of smoking, supress evidence of a product they know can be harmful.

I think Ciggarettes should be banned...Any product which goes thru lot of processing to make it harmful should be banned...including trans fat. Yes I do enjoy fries ...but it can also be cooked in regular oil ..does not have to be a processed trans fat oil. I don't drink alcohol but we can never successfully ban alcohol because it can be made a home ..or in the back yard. But Ciggarettes are processed and have over 35 toxins which are added to cause habit in smokers...I don't mind if a person rolls fresh tobbacco in a regular paper and smokes ... I don't even mind if it is marijuana because though it can make you high ..but if it can be grown and smoked at home ..then hey you have the freedom ..

Yep, I think we should take away all of the rights of freedom of choice from the people and force them to follow only perfectly proscribed courses of action and thought.

Freedoms are what's gotten us into this mess in the first place .....DOWN WITH ALL FREEDOMS!

Baron Max

The crime with cigarettes is that for many years after they knew they were addictive and caused cancer, the tobacco companies were saying otherwise. I have no problem selling things that don't harm anyone but the user, as long as it is an informed choice.

..., as long as it is an informed choice.

And just who do you designate as the person or authority to provide that "informed information"? And do we designate a separate authority for each and every product that's sold to the ignorant fuckin' public?

And I'm sure that you're aware that there are still people who claim that smokin' is not the cause of cancer, etc, but that it's caused by air pollution and such, with cigs just adding to the many pollutants? I.e., why does cancer and heart disease happen to non-smokers? Must be some OTHER cause, huh? So, ...perhaps, ...?

Baron Max

As long as we know it is hramfull and the biggest legal killer it should be banned full stop.

I am a smoker and i would ban them from being sold tomorrow...
it's a telling sign when smokers say this.
there are 1000s more too.

B.M.,
FDA.

FDA.

Hmm, didn't the FDA recently approve some drugs that were subsequently found to cause all kinds of horrid problems? That same FDA? Or a different, better one?

And isn't it the same FDA that basically approved cigs in the first place?

And didn't they approve the spinach processing/distribution systems which subsequently were found to contain some nasty little bugs? That same FDA?

Baron Max

From another thread:





So there you have it. Selling cigarretes is murder. It's worse than murder. At least that's one man's opinion. So what do you think? Should cigarettes be outlawed? How about other things that are bad for you like pot, heroin, and crispy cremes?

taxed not banned.

Yup. A different organization would have the same issues from time to time. They learn, they improve. About those harmful drugs that were approved, I heard the FDA was pressured for approval by the Pharm companies. I think something could be done about their undue influence in government.

taxed not banned.
hI TIME TRAVELLER,

they must be banned, they are evil!!!

taxing them is like the government taking you own money to kill you.

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take care
zak

I don't mind cigarettes being banned in public due to second-hand smoke, but as far as banning them completely, I say hell no. No substance should ever be banned, only the act when it winds up harming another against their will. Go ahead and smoke and kill yourself, fine by be. Even use cyanide if ya want. But the moment you put others in jeopardy, I say none of that public business.

- N

What if a substance was addictive?

Heroin is neither as popular nor as addictive as tobacco. Prisons have the most stringent rules of any place in America, with the exception of a few military installations. Yet heroin is available in prisons.

Tobacco is probably the most popular drug on earth, and by many measures it is also the most addictive. Does anyone seriously believe that if the government declares tobacco to be "illegal," people will stop smoking it?

If you think the War on Drugs has screwed up America, that the black market prices of heroin, cocaine, etc., make drug habits expensive for addicts and inspire some of them to commit crimes to support their addictions, that the profits inherent in a black market always attract the unscrupulous, the desperate and the risk takers into the business, that the black marketeers, being greedy, dishonorable and devoid of legal structure end up shooting each other, their customers and innocent bystanders, that black marketeers recruit children as helpers because they're difficult to catch and prosecute, that rich gangsters end up being more attractive role models to children than honest working men, that a criminal record for drug use or marketing ruins a person's chance for a decent job and thereby destroys families and communities...

If you're old enough to have had parents who lived through the horrors of Prohibition, saw it nearly destroy this country, and regardless of their religious or political principles demanded that it be repealed--and Utah, America's conservative, teetotaling Mormon enclave, passed the deciding vote...

Can you just imagine what it would do to this country to turn the tobacco market over to the gangsters, to raise the price of a pack of cigarettes even higher than taxes have already done, and to make every smoker a criminal?

"You can never do just one thing."

No. I hate the banning of substances. Control, yes. Banning, no. Banning usually just means that the problem gets worse, because now you don't know where it is, what's in it, or who's using it.

What if a substance was addictive?

Anything can be addicting. If it's good and a person likes it, odds are they'll do it all the time, regardless of what "it" is. Besides, you shouldn't play with something you don't know about. It's their own fault if they don't know what they're getting into and that the drug is addictive.

- N

Since we are all of us mortal, why do we never hear of all the things you are LESS likely to die of if you smoke cigarettes?

I think in the UK and Europe the age limit should be 18, there should always be a smoking/non-smoking section or (grudgingly) the ban we have here in all public buildings. I think everyone should have a choice though.

You don't see fat people being refused at KFC or McDonalds.

The government in the UK can't afford to ban smoking. They make insane amounts of money from the ludicrous tax they place on it. The NHS would probably crumble. There's no way that all the money from cigarette tax is used to pay for smokers healthcare, it's complete bullshit. Ciagrette taxation brings over £10 billion in revenue per year to the UK gov.

The government in the UK can't afford to ban smoking. They make insane amounts of money from the ludicrous tax they place on it.

The UK government collects around 8 billion GBP per annum from taxing tobacco (excluding VAT), a good bit less than the hidden subsidy to international air travel, the 13 billion or so that it fails to gather because of the lack of a tax on aviation fuel.

cigarettes should definitely be outlawed....

I am a smoker and i would ban them from being sold tomorrow... On top of this any one caught selling them illegally should have a 10 year sentence at least
zak
Zak, that's pathetic. Come on! If you truly believe cigarrettes should be banned, quit smoking. Your like that Foley guy, going on about how to protect your kids from internet preditors, while he was one.

I don't even smoke {except the occasional, like once or twice a year, cigar} and I don't think cigarettes should be banned. As Fraggle pointed out, it would be a disaster and would only serve to increase the funding for criminals.

You especially shouldn't ban it if you want to keep kids from smoking. When I was in high school, it was much easier to get pot {illegal} than beer {legal for adults}. I could get pot in most men's rooms at the school. Beer was a real pain in the ass to get, which is why we'd chug as much as we could whenever we managed to get some.

From another thread:
So there you have it. Selling cigarretes is murder. It's worse than murder. At least that's one man's opinion. So what do you think? Should cigarettes be outlawed? How about other things that are bad for you like pot, heroin, and crispy cremes?

I do think corporations have killed people in large numbers, but I think cigarettes should be allowed for people to smoke privately. I am completley against them in all public places. There is no justifying harming other peoples health for your enjoyment.

About corporations killing people... you won't find it much in the USA, but take a look at what multinational corporations have done in 3rd world countries. It can range from a company like Alusuisse in Africa actually having striking workers put down in bloodshed, to disrupting a developing country and resulting in the starvation of the impoverished, to selling baby food that causes health problems to infants after advertising it to an uneducated populace as necessary for good health.