Le Grand Nation has always vied for the greatest political power that it can get.
What do you think?

C'est tres grande. Vive la France! Anyone who admeets zee Bush is stupide is formidable.

Anyone who admeets zee Bush is stupide is formidable.
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Well France has not said anything like that!
& anything that stands in there way,like the Rainbow warrior gets it!

A US Marine's letter home.....

Dear Dad:

A funny thing happened to me yesterday at Camp Bondsteel (Bosnia): A French army officer walked up to me in the PX, and told me he thought we (Americans) were a bunch of cowboys and were going to provoke a war in Iraq. He said if such a thing happens, we wouldn't be able to count on the support of France.

I told him that it didn't surprise me. Since we had come to France's rescue in World War I, World War II, Vietnam, and the Cold War, their ingratitude and jealousy was due to surface [again] at some point in the near future anyway. I also told him that is why France is a third-rate military power with a socialist economy and a bunch of pansies for soldiers. I additionally told him that America, being a nation of deeds and action, not words, would do whatever it had to do, and France's support, if it ever came, was only for show anyway.

Just like in ALL NATO exercises, the US would shoulder 85% of the burden, and provide 85% of the support, as evidenced by the fact that this French officer was shopping in the American PX, and not the other way around.

He began to get belligerent at that point, and I told him if he would like to, I would meet him outside in front of the Burger King and whip his ass in front of the entire national Brigade East, thus demonstrating that even the smallest American had more fight in him than the average Frenchman. He called me a barbarian cowboy and walked away in a huff.

With friends like these, who needs enemies?

Dad, tell Mom I love her,

Your loving daughter, Mary Beth Johnson Lt Col., USMC

;)

Ah, so that's why none of Frances military who fought in Desert STorm, never got Gulf War Syndrome?

It wasn't that there weren't given the battery of vaccines that the US and UK forces were, or that they were given that stupid anti-gas tablet, it was....

that they weren't even there....

Such a neat little explanation....

This is what the French do. They want apiece of the action just like the rest of us. Bush is a greedy little fucker, he plans to lock Iraq up tight. A personal disaster for the French who are doing just fine exploiting pre war Iraq. They want compensation and who can blame them?
What can George do?
You see France, "old" Europe and maybe China are almost unique in the world in that they are not financially dependent on the US. France spent 500 years trying to conquer the world and they have kept much of what they aquired. French is widely spoken across the Arab world. They have an economy of their own. They also have Nukes. We can't even bomb them:(

France have their own answer to Marines....
Frogmen:)

hahahaha new axis of evil Belgium germany and france.....attack them too, those damn cowards. They are terorist states declare war on them NOW>>>

Obviously, the US should be invading France instead of Iraq.

invade france...........invade belgium and invade germany, we are are the rulers of the world our leader is " Darth vader" of the this planet. lol :p :D :p Send the imperial droids and send strom tropers all the places and kill any one who oppses usa. we will prevail and humanity will be dead.

screw you anglos! your stinking propaganda is tired and old!
vive le france!

http://www.tiscali.co.uk/reference/encyclopaedia/countryfacts/images/flags/large/c05001.gif

This is what I find marvelous......GI JANE VS Pepe La Dude

I prefer a good croissant to politics myself. Vive la France! Bush ees Stupide!

a warm croissant with a nice jam...............

Ah, so that's why none of Frances military who fought in Desert STorm, never got Gulf War Syndrome?
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No its because they stood at the back as usual!

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screw you anglos! your stinking propaganda is tired and old!
vive le france!
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Vive le france indeed spookz!I lost family in both wars saving their ass!

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I prefer a good croissant to politics myself. Vive la France! Bush ees Stupide!
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hypewaders Obviously you have some personal grudge against Bush,

He is effing up my country, and soon several others. I take it very personally.

Wouldn't worry, hypewaders...

Maybe Bush will decide to invade the whole world...

Then maybe while the cats away, lost of timorese, al queda, mexican, hispanic, Iraqi, whoever, will go in, leave a few thousand timed devices, and decide to raze the mice, while the fat cats are away.....

In fact, maybe, if the whole world, rose up, and declared war on the USA, that would solve the whole problem. USA would not be able to fight the world on all fronts...

Won't happen though. Too many Bush-ass wipers around....

But you know how Bush says if you aren't with us, you are against us? (And by the way, he threatened New Zealand that if we carried on our intransigent stance, there would be no trade either way with us.)

Now, just think what would happen if they said the same to every country that disagreed.

Dontcha reckon that if that included China, Phillipines, etc... that the USA economy would fall over in about five days?

What a wonderful idea....tit for tat, methinks...

The problem I see hypewaders, is the arrogance and the mindset and reason behing why Bush sees fit to f up so many places on this earth.....

You never know. Maybe a Brutus might fix the American Empire....

Hey Boys!
Y'know that US defence spending is almost equal to the rest of the world combined. The US may, in theory, be able to take on the entire world:eek:
They might even win!
Unite and Strike now! Time is running out....:)

"In fact, maybe, if the whole world, rose up, and declared war on the USA, that would solve the whole problem. USA would not be able to fight the world on all fronts...

The United States can barely fight a 2-front war. If Afghanistan heats up during the Occupation of Iraq, which I expect will go even more badly, then Kim Jong Il puts his Long Dong II where it doesn't belong, and Saudi has a fundamentalist coup and Turkey invades Kurdistan and Musharraf falls to the (then nuclear) Taliban, and Ariel Sharon completely takes over George W. Bush's Brain, along with the occupied territories, and American White Seperatists make their move, and...

We'll have our hands full, and I think with the present policies America will burn itself out in 10 years or less- don't worry.

Just pity the millions of Americans who don't support the Busheviks and just wanted to mind their own business :(

Anybody want to buy an SUV and 2 airplanes?:(

Hypewaders,

Perhaps this is what those who "knew" felt like when the Roman Empire started to overstretch themselves....:(

Perhaps the factors contributing to empire falls are pride, arrogance, international bullying, and swelled heads to think everyone else will sit back and let them......

I fear you are correct.

Height : 150 : ft
Weighs : 225 tons
Pedestal: 152 ft
Outer Metal of Flame is Gold
Made of Copper
Made in 1876
Present from France

real americans thank you for your support and gift!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The New Colossus

Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame,
With conquering limbs astride from land to land;
Here at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand
A mighty woman with a torch whose flame
Is imprisoned lightning, and her name
Mother of Exiles. From her beacon-hand
Glows world-wide welcome; her mild eyes command
The air-bridged harbor that twin cities frame.
"Keep ancient lands your storied pomp!" cries she with silent lips.

"Give me your tired your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

Emma Lazarus (1849-1887)
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France pulled out of Nato's military structures in 1966, and participates only in political consultations.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/2769905.stm

It's embarrassing to see how easily anti-foreigner sentiments can be awakened in Americans. There is a palpable anti-French sentiment out there and if it goes on another week or two, there are going to be some anti-French economic repercussions at the "street" (okay, at the "SUV") level. I wouldn't want to be in the shoes of any retailer like Evian or Perrier -- it's very easy to lift a San Pellegrino off the grocery shelf instead. People are talking about canceling their French vacations, too.

It's embarrassing to see how easily anti-foreigner sentiments can be awakened in Americans.
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I am not American!
I am a foreigner!

odin - my post had nothing to do with you. I'm just reporting on what I'm hearing/seeing among my fellow Americans. Very quickly a papable detestation for the French as arisen.

Originally posted by odin
I am not American! I am a foreigner!
It's a cyber community, dude!
No one is a foreigner here... ;)

:m: Peace.

Sorry my mistake.
But as you see from my thread,I think the French only ever think Le Grand Nation over & above any thing else!

It's a cyber community, dude!
No one is a foreigner here...

Why thank you.
:m:

Well, as a "foreigner", I guess I'll add my two cents worth...Very quickly a papable detestation for the French as arisen. This as I see it, is an interesting phenomenon. See, its easy to "hit" on French products, because by and large, America only buys from France what you might call "unnecessary" or "luxury" products.

Nothing you get from France could really be described as essential to daily life, could it?

Now this palpable detestation is very selective. While allowing French products to gather dust, does the palpable detestation, for instance, apply to products from China? Or perhaps, other countries classified as with, or aligned to the so-called axis of evil?

The USA Government also exhibits this tendency. Since the USA lost the case in the world trade court, which showed that its actions regarding New Zealand and Australian lamb, were illegal (not that that makes any difference to the USA government, who have defied the court ruling, and basically told them to get stuffed...) the USA government has stepped up their campaign to ostracise NZ goods. This is of course, linked up with the fact that we have also, much to the USA's displeasure, become anti-nuclear as Governmental policy....

However, I think this is a good thing, and just wish that the USA government would put a total trade barrier on NZ. Not that we sell much there anyway.

But I would hate to think that the USA would open up to NZ trade. The last thing we need, is to have a ring put through our nose, develop large trading relationships with the US Government, and then have it used as a bribery item.

Frankly, I'd rather the NZ government, with regard to trade, behaved as if USA simply doesn't exist. And I think France would be wise to do likewise.

Which would mean that all the well heeled Americans who buy French goods for the status symbol they represent would either have to go outside US borders to buy them, or not have them at all.

Further, I would like to think, too, if the American people suddenly get their nose in a snit with China, they could also boycott all chinese goods.

In fact, better still, if you simply boycotted the whole of the rest of the world, then maybe you might have to get up off your butts, make everything yourself, and in the end, you would be better off for it.

It has been the importation of cheap goods from overseas that has destroyed the HOME (as in NZ) car industry, the clothing industry, the shoe industry and is well on the way to collapsing our steel industry. We are increasingly becoming so dependant on buying, that the knowledge to be self-sufficient if we needed to, is rapidly going down the tubes.

I don't happen to think this is a good thing for any country, whether that be USA or NZ.

It might mean a total rethink on what skills are needed, but I wonder if that might not be the wise thing to do long-term.

All idealistic thinking, unfortunately, and not part of the "plan" of the elite, who run the world. IMO, that plan is to get everyone so interdependent, so that the whole world can either be manipulated to achieve an end, or if they don't co-operate, a domino effect results in total WW economic collapse and depression.

Which is, actually, what I suspect might be just below the horizon.

So just maybe, everyone getting into a huff, and refusing to buy french products, or whoever's products, might actually be a good thing in the long run.

Sigh, but its all rampant in the imagination, and will never happen, because people are so fickle, and only latch on to the dis-flavour of the month. The "in" thing to do.

Should France"Le Grand Nation"be marginalised politically?

For for not supporting blatant warmongering? What should they be marginalised for: finding the justification for war to be unconvincing or daring to say so? I think that they have a right to be a bit iffy about wars; they have had two horrific wars fought on their soil and probably have a higher understanding of what war entails.

Is that Mary Beth Johnson thing satire or just macho crap? Obviously, it never happened, but what does it intend to say?

Er, the US saving France's ass in Vietnam? WTF

Originally posted by Hesomagari
All idealistic thinking, unfortunately, and not part of the "plan" of the elite, who run the world. IMO, that plan is to get everyone so interdependent, so that the whole world can either be manipulated to achieve an end, or if they don't co-operate, a domino effect results in total WW economic collapse and depression.

Which is, actually, what I suspect might be just below the horizon.


i cant wait. the whole world is gonna be my oyster! no borders, one language,
a new culture looking towards the future. barcoded humans? so what!

vive la world govt!

no borders, one language,
a new culture looking towards the future. barcoded humans? dream on. dream on.

More like third rock from the pit of hell.

VoodooChild:
Is that Mary Beth Johnson thing satire or just macho crap? Obviously, it never happened, but what does it intend to say?
Urban legend. (http://www.snopes.com/military/marine.htm) ;)

Here is an appropos opinion from a French person, who responded in a separate forum (which I rearely visit because of an excruciatingly slow server). "Montecristo" wrote the following at inreview.com:
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I recently learnt that some people in the states call to boycott french products. That means cheese and wine of course. In fact, it's known all over the world that the frenchs can only make cheese and wine. What about doing the same thing with the german beer and bretzels (a way to protect Mr Bush in person) ?
You know, we both construct roads, cars, planes. We have electricity and phone. And I think boycott is not a solution.
What about boycotting american products in Europe ? For my part, I'll do it.
Yesterday, your politics had a big fun with french stories. (If americans wouldn't have helped them, they should speak german now...). I think it's very funny too : )
Why using history to their purpose ? Lafayette supported the first americans. We don't talk about this story any more. That's not a big deal.
We are grateful, that's a fact. But do we have to be grateful at any conditions ? For how long ?
I come from a little town on the western sea side in France, called Lorient. This town was destroyed by the allied forces during the ww2. Because there was the world biggest base for U-boot. This town has been bombed month after month. Many civilians were killed. Now the town is awful (a little bit like vladivistok) and you can still visit thes enormous submarines base.
But I'm grateful. I'm not sure that today I would speak german. We have our heroes too. Most of them were killed during the conflict by the gestapo. We call them partisans (remember Leonard cohen's song), the nazis called them terrorists. My grandfather was in a nazy camp. He fighted for France and Freedom. He wasn't killed on an beach in Normandy, that's a fact. But he was not a coward, I'm not a coward. I'll never leave someone to say me I'm a coward, directly in the eyes.
I think it needs more courage to say sometimes no.

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I thought that a good reply to nationalists who validate their own sense of belonging by insulting another country- Just as individual bigots often insult others to buttress their own flawed egos.

there are serious implications tho about the stance that france is taking in the context of the un. it is not so much that france is gonna be marginalised but rather the un. if the usa crosses the line and unilaterally declares war on iraq, i cannot see the un being relevant anymore. no doubt it can settle matters off lesser importance such as health, refugees........but the existence of the security council could possibily come up for debate.

and the USA will bear the largest share of the blame for destroying the UN along with the hopes and futures of millions.

I thought that a good reply to nationalists who validate their own sense of belonging by insulting another country- Just as individual bigots often insult others to buttress their own flawed egos.
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Yes a good reply,if you turn it back to the French!as Le Grand Nation might be preaching what you want to hear at the moment,but they only look after them-selfs.
Look what they did to the Rainbow Warrior,blow it up in a N/Z port killing one of the crew.
Just to stop it going to sea!
PS I hope you all realise there is a French aircraft carrier on its way at the moment to the war,just to make sure that France has a say whichever way it go's.

i dont think anyone here can make the case that france too is not merely looking after it's self interest like any other country. but that is not the issue. it is the stance they have adopted viz a viz the un. perhaps they have selfish reasons for doing so but who give a shit?

I don't think the US should be using the argument "you should back us, and be grateful, for were it not for us, you would all be speaking German."

For two reason. The first is that you cannot prove that the Allies would not have won had the Americans not come in at the end. When you look at the information obtained after that, it was obvious that the German "political" system, Hitler, and the war, had started imploding from the inside some time before USA got there, started by a few summary executions by Hitler himself, of personnel he viewed as a threat. His minions knew they were not safe with him, or without him. Personally, while I think the war may have gone on a bit longer, the Allies would not have lost. They would have had more human losses, yes, but eventually, I believe all the countries around Germany would have eventually won.

Secondly. Why did USA wait so long, and right at the end, decide to intervene? As I understand if from all my American texts, the president at the time campaigned on a no-war scenario. And didn't get a mandate to go into any war, until after Pearl Harbour...

But my text book also talks about, even before the war started, that the American's were quite prepared to set themselves up as the munitions manufacturing power-house of the world, because there was huge money to be made supplying munitions. As there is now...

USA had provided weapons, and basically bank-rolled the first world war in Europe. And lost out on it financially.

Likewise, they basically went guarantor on the second world war, manufacturing much of the weapons etc that the Allies were using. They were somewhat more circumspect, and initially didn't allow it on credit, but after a year or so, with the financial situation in Britain what it was, they decided to let the Allies "buy" their munitions on "tick".

Which led to a mini problem at a certain point, when it "looked", on the surface, as if Hitler wasn't going to be rolled over that easy. Which meant that IF the Allies weren't quite capable of rolling over Hitler, that USA would never get paid, and they had already been stung in the first world war, especially after German defaulted...

There is much vaunted talk about how Europe should be grateful to USA, and how they "saved" the day. and USA plays that like a violin. But that Frenchman is right Hyslanders....

But fact is, the USA went in, not so much to save the day, as to make sure the tills went cha-ching... at the end of the day....

Yes, there might have been a wee bitty disquiet that maybe if Europe lost, USA might be next, as Europe might arise as the next Roman Empire, but when you read the disarray that Germany was truly in, and had been in for some time, that isn't a serious proposition. Even if no-one knew that at the time. But we don't talk about that, because its too inconvenient, so let talk about something else...

What bothers me the most is this. The Arab League is how many countries? 26? 29? Lets say, 26, coz I can't be bothered counting them up.

They surround Iraq, on all fronts.

Now were the situation the same as WWII, where the Arab League had got together, amassed forces, and was attempting to deal to Saddam, but lacked the finishing off fire power, and THEN they went to the UN, and said "WE need help to get this bastard out, and free the iraqi people to have democracy, can you give us a hand?"... And USA put up its hand, and said "Sure, what can we do?" I might have a slightly different view on this issue.

But that isn't how I see this issue. As far as the Arab League is concerned, they are obviously pretty okay with Saddam. Arafat accepts the 20,000 US dollars from Saddam for every palestinian who "dies as a matyr" - (never mind that the families get very little, and Arafat is a multi-millionaire....)

Jordan has social policies as bad as Iraq (Read the book, Forbidden Love, about the family atrocities that occur there, where thousands of girls and women are killed by male family member to protect the family honour?
Examples. Older rother kills sister to protect family honour. Sister's crime? She was raped by Younger Brother. Ahem. Shouldn't younger brother have been murdered? No, coz its okay for males to rape, but not for females to BE raped. Nother example. 10 year old, killed because she was found talking on the phone to ... a male......

Saudi Arabia. WEll.... the stories are legion. United Arab Emirates? Just... don't go there....and so it goes on.

Most of the Arab League can't criticise what Saddam does to his own people, because they do it to their own anyway, albeit in a more secret and less dramatic manner. The whole of the Middle East, bar Israel, is based on tribal rule, and always has been. Nothing new under the sun...And most of the Arab League feels the same way about the USA as Iraq does.

They just maintain a polite facade in order to extract the maximum benefit from barely cordial business relationships.

Fact is, every jack country I know, functions on the basis of self interest. None so much as the USA.

That, IMO, in indisputable...

I mean, lets be realistic.

Here's a list of the countries that the U.S. has bombed since the end of World War II, compiled by historian William Blum:

China 1945-46
Korea 1950-53
China 1950-53
Guatemala 1954
Indonesia 1958
Cuba 1959-60
Guatemala 1960
Congo 1964
Peru 1965
Laos 1964-73
Vietnam 1961-73
Cambodia 1969-70
Guatemala 1967-69
Grenada 1983
Libya 1986
El Salvador 1980s
Nicaragua 1980s
Panama 1989
Iraq 1991-99
Sudan 1998
Yugoslavia 1999
Afghanistan 2002

Don't tell me, that all these places were NOT bombed in the USA's interest.....that they were done out of the goodness of the USA's heart, to help the people.....

and I don't believe that Iraq is going to be bombed for the good of the Iraqi people either. Afghanistan, Iran and Iraq are very important to USA - for oil, or pipelines thereof.

To me, the only reason to go in, and get Saddam (even if he turns out to have "gone') is so that USA gets not only control of the oil, but also the pipeline country, AND... like has so often happened in the past, insists on long term bases in Iraq, on a 99 year lease in order to continue its "influence" in the area.

Laugh if you want. I could be wrong. But history will be the judge.

why laugh? thats some excellent shit right there!

I don't think the US should be using the argument "you should back us, and be grateful, for were it not for us, you would all be speaking German."
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Did you forget about World War 1 ?

Nope - did you? Want to go back over that too? Interesting stuff there.... and... how far do you want to go back, to look at the whys and wherefore's of USA's international actions in history?

We could of course, go right back to the first nation people who were in the USA before those who claim it as their own, now.

Originally posted by Hesomagari
Hypewaders,

Perhaps this is what those who "knew" felt like when the Roman Empire started to overstretch themselves....:(

Perhaps the factors contributing to empire falls are pride, arrogance, international bullying, and swelled heads to think everyone else will sit back and let them......

With all due respect, what say does any other nation really have when it comes to the safty of Americans? The UN can fuck off as far as I'm concerned, if there is a madman with chemical and possably neuclear weapons, and ties to terrorist organizations making threats against your nation, lets see how your government reacts.

Hesomagari, Why do you think that the US, or any nation, or indeed any individual, for that matter, shouldn't act in it's own interest? Should we all turn to self destruction and blindness to ourselves?

MystechWith all due respect, what say does any other nation really have when it comes to the safty of Americans? The UN can fuck off as far as I'm concerned, if there is a madman with chemical and possably neuclear weapons, and ties to terrorist organizations making threats against your nation, lets see how your government reacts.

1) Please show me where Iraq has specifically threatened the USA?

2) When the french came to this country, and blew up the Rainbow warrior and killed and injured New Zealanders, we didn't decide to go OVER to France and beat the crap out of them. At least we had the gun, rather than blank bullets and nothing to fire them in...

We tracked down the two agents, and used the LAW.... you know that thing???

MystechHesomagari, Why do you think that the US, or any nation, or indeed any individual, for that matter, shouldn't act in it's own interest? Should we all turn to self destruction and blindness to ourselves?

There is a principle involved, which extends to any demands that a country may make.

Here is one example. Some time back, the US said to NZ "We won't let any more of your produce, of any kind, into the USA until you have eliminated all farm subsidies." Okay?

N.Z. did that, and one third of the farmers went to the wall. But in the process, a new breed of farmer got on the job, and found ways to produce the same goods, and make a profit without the subsidies. So then, we provided the proof, and the USA said OKAY!! So, we started to send Lamb to the USA, but.... it sold in USA slightly cheaper than US lamb (which.... is subsidised).

So the US Government said "We can't have that, and slapped a 15% tariff on it, and later increased that further....

So NZ (and Australia, as the US had made the same demands of them) took them to the WTO court. USA strung the case out with irrelevant crap, but in the end, the case went against them, because we had fulfilled our part of the agreement, but the USA hadn't....And the USA were told not only to take off the tariff, but also to remove their own subsidies on their farmers. After all, a legal agreement is a legal agreement.

But no, the USA told the WTO court to stick in in their nether regions, and increased the farm subsidies last year.

Now, I hear you say. What has this to do with war?

Fact is, Mystech, that USA has one rule for us, and one rule for them. In every area of life. Including war. Which is why USA will be the first country to go to war, on a pre-emptive basis, using as an excuse "We think that he might, even though we have no evidence that he will."

And this garbage about Al Queda living in Saddam's pocket, is simply the jumped up excuse, in order to finish of Daddy's grand ole plan...

And in the USA's normal sort of hypocritical stance, when Japan then issued a warning to N Korea, that if they had any thoughts of chucking a missile their way, Japan would act first... and what did USA do? Say, "Oh no you can't....do.... that...."

See, it all right, for USA people to flit round the world telling people how they should live their lives, but it isn't all right when someone else says, "We've had enough of your prattism, go away."

Your government, isn't just acting in self interest - it's like a spoilt child, whose motto is "What's your is mine, and what's mine is mine."

Yes, every nation acts in self interest. But USA happens to have the biggest history of pillage and destruction for no good reason, of any western nation. And they have the gall to say that they support freedom for all..

Bah..

bravo!


Moderator Edit

"What's your[s] is mine, and what's mine is mine."

Hesomagari, I must emphatically interject that as a Proud American, I resemble that remark.

HypewadersHesomagari, I must emphatically interject that as a Proud American, I resemble that remark.

?????????????????????:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :confused: :confused: :eek: :eek: