Share ideas about energy and energy density

Share ideas about energy and energy density

Space, energy, matter and gravity seem to make up the universe. I am incubating a concept of energy and would like to open a discussion. Energy is often described as “the ability to do work”. There are more technical or elaborate definitions, but I’d like to open the discussion with the concept that energy is the source of mass and gravity, and it is mass and gravity that possess the ability to do work.

Under that concept of energy then energy density is a useful concept in describing mass and gravity. It is that concept of energy density that this thread is dedicated too.

In order for energy density to work to cause mass and gravity it would make sense to think of energy as a commodity and the energy commodity would have a characteristic of fineness. The fineness would have to be “to the extreme” so that even the smallest increment of energy and the smallest force could be accommodated.

If energy has this characteristic of fineness, there would be no way to detect any absolute limit of that fineness. Effectively the fineness of the energy commodity would be potentially infinite.

 

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No interest? Then let me ask you to consider the average energy density of the universe. What can we say about it that is obvious and reasonable? I offer the thought that the average energy density of the universe determines the ratio of matter to energy in the universe. Maybe that falls in the obvious category. Then I add what might be a "reasonable" thought that the ratio of matter to energy dictates the speed of light.

If we consider what adding energy would do to the matter/energy ratio could we reasonably say that more energy would increase the relative amount of matter given the same volume of space? And so adding energy would increase the average energy density and increase the matter/energy ratio? Using a given ratio of matter to energy to start with of e=mc^2, then adding energy while keeping the volume of space the same would increase the matter ratio and the speed of light would adjust itself to accommodate. e would still = mc^2 but the speed of light would be faster if the ratio of matter to energy is linked to the speed of light.

 

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What is the opposite (inverse) of energy? hmmmm?

 

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There might not be an inverse if I understand the question. Where are you coming from and can you give a little background to your question?

 

Quite simply, if there is energy, what is the opposing counterpart?

 

Energy may have always existed. If that were the case, would it have an opposing counterpart?

 

YES! The desire for energy. An energy vacuum. Negative energy.

Thats my input.

 

e = mc^2

In a black hole, is the mass considered negative or positive? This is where my thought came from. Negative mass should produce negative energy?

This is beyond me, but you seemed lonely. Just thought I would give you something to expand upon.

 

Lol, thanks for that!

I feel it is my duty to expand on that

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. Check back later and see if you like what I come up with.

 

My idea is that "Energy" is most likely a human concept making theories, calculations and the rest of phenomenology easier and/or possible. Energy is an intuitive concept, it's impossible to define energy in non ambiguous, non circular way. It quite could be that there is no damn energy in Universe, it exists only in hairless monkey's minds.

Let's say dropping a ball 100 feet on concrete pavement is sufficient to evaporate 10 grams of water from ball's surface. At the same time, burning 0.1 gallons of gas to heat the ball produces the same effect. Therefore, 0.1 gallons of gas and a ball 100 feet above the surface posses an entity called "Energy" making all kinds of calculations and life in general easier. That's Energy fundamentals in a nutshell.

 

Needless disclaimer: Anything I post that is not backed up with evidence or links is my personal speculation. Usually I speculate about areas of physics and cosmology beyond where peer reviewed theory has already taken us. My speculations are ideas and not theory, and I have no suggested means of testing them at the current state of technological advancement. They are classified as protoscience as distinguished from pseudoscience (non science) because they have a basis in science and pass the test of being responsible and reasonable ideas that do not violate proved science.

Positive.

I understand. Negative energy is a popular concept. It is associated with the cosmological constant and vacuum energy density, as well as with dark energy. Dark energy, negative energy as you have referred to it, is possibly what is driving the expansion of the universe.

I view that concept to mean that the positive energy of the known universe is “equalizing” its energy density with the vacuum energy of empty space. The vacuum has zero energy (or at least relatively low energy density) and the universe has positive energy (or at least relatively high energy density); as the universe expands the average energy density of the universe declines as it “mixes” with the vacuum surrounding it.


YOUR idea relating negative energy to black holes as you have suggested could prove to have merit but you have to follow a sequence of events that would encompass a process of dark energy emerging from a black hole. That way, dark energy is the “inverse” of a black hole to use your terminology.

Here is how I see it could work. A big crunch would precede every big bang. The big crunch is the result of gravity attracting the galactic remnants left over from previous big bangs and their subsequent expansion. As expanding big bang universes that have formed a full complement of galaxies that are all moving into deep space, they run together with other expanding universes.

The overlapping expanding universes interrupt each other’s expansion and gravity is able to take over and cause big crunches to form where the overlaps occur.

The big crunch causes such high energy density at the core that matter (the galactic remnants) can no longer function as matter. Gravity is a function of matter and so the big crunch gradually loses it ability to contain the extreme high energy density called “dense dark energy” that forms under compression at the core.

When the big crunch fails from within, the dense dark energy is released as highly compressed dark energy relative to the surrounding low energy density, i.e. into the relative vacuum. That is how dark energy and the black hole might be linked and why I say your idea might have merit.

 

Exactly. Energy is conserved.

I have some thoughts about what you said. Check back when I have responded and see what you think.

 

Webster should make additional entries under the word futility namely

cosmology
big bang/crunch
dark energy
dense dark energy

It's quite possible that the definitions of insanity could be expanded in similar fashion.

this sentence would twist already markedly disturbed cosmological minds. Have pity, man.

 

Maybe I should add a PG13 rating to my disclaimer for having no mercy.

 

Just remember, (speculative) possibilities are endless, life is short

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Very true.

I can't even think of a decent come back to that

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. Except maybe that life being short and speculations being endless means that I don't have to worry about running out of speculations. I find that comforting, sort of.

 

Ok, so |energy| is always positive. Mass can be seen in terms of dark mass, which then translates to 'dark energy.' Which is still positive. Energy is always expressed in positive terms.

So when are we going to start mining space?

 

Yes. The way I look at it is that every point in space has some degree of energy density; there is no empty space, i.e. no voids.

Yes, and one key concept is that energy always tries to equalize it density across its environment. Two intersecting zones of differing energy density will "equalize" so that the energy density becomes equal across the combined area. That is called energy density equalization.

Some things interrupt the process of equalization and one is the formation of matter. Particles maintain their energy density even though they are surrounded by lower levels of energy density, i.e. matter will not equalize with surrounding space. This effect is true across a wide range of surrounding energy densities. However, it is possible for the matter to be surrounded by very high levels of energy density as inside stars and black holes. Then the matter does equalize with the high surrounding level of energy density and neutrons form from hydrogen atoms in stars, and "dense dark energy" forms inside black holes.

Once "dense dark energy" forms, the matter ceases to function, gravity stops, and a sequence of events is set into motion. If we are talking about a black hole, when it accumulates enough mass to become a big crunch then "dense dark energy" forms. Then the sequence of events is that the gravity diminishes, the accretion of matter slows and stops, the force of potential energy builds up at the core, and the gravitation force is eventually exceeded by the built up "dense dark energy". The black hole bursts into expansion of dark energy which then turns into an expanding arena that we would call the expanding observable universe.

There is so much more energy per volume of matter than there is per volume of space that we won't need to mine space until we are using space drives to propel our spacecraft; maybe twenty years for the manned trip to Mars?

 

maybe negative energy produces dark matter?

 

In this post you will see that my view is that all energy is positive, and it is only an energy density differential that causes the effect that is sometimes thought of as "negative energy". Therefore, "negative energy" is really lower positive energy density relative to a higher positive level of energy density.

Dark matter is a stage in the development of matter. Matter froms when very high energy density exists during the early stages of dark energy expansion. Dark matter forms from dark energy as energy quanta form. Matter formation must proceed past the dark matter fromation stage before fundamental particles of matter form and take on electromagnetic characteristics. Once matter takes on electromagnetic characteristics it is no longer "dark" because it emits light in the form of electromagnetic radiation.