Really, what would happen if we all simply slept with each other? How many iterations would it take for there to exist one type of race, facial structure, etc.

Hey look, it's another sex thread.

It wouldn't happen... These sex threads always get closed :(

Originally posted by thefountainhed
Really, what would happen if we all simply slept with each other? How many iterations would it take for there to exist one type of race, facial structure, etc. You are not a white supremacy thing are you?

Ok, ok,......With or without condom?

:p

Originally posted by Halo
Hey look, it's another sex thread. Only if you guys turn it into one - the question has legitimacy.

:m: Peace.

Bad title, good question.

I really like the question though: If everyone was interbreeding, then how long tell everyone reached a state of genetic homogeny. Hey I think I can write up a matlab simulation of this for the answer. I could make a simulation of "individuals" interbreed them at different rates and different population growth rates. I can use the old code I wrote for tracking a lethal genes distribution rate. From my lethal gene code though I can tell you that the rate of homogeny will be a logarithmic plot in that the population will never be able to achieve total homogeny and will approach the homogeny limit at logarithmic curve. I can’t really put a number now (without the code) on how long tell we reach the homogeny limit but probably more then 6 generations. I think I will have time on Wednesday for this little pet project I’ll get back to you then with a more definitive answer.

I think I will have time on Wednesday for this little pet project I’ll get back to you then with a more definitive answer.

You're going to fuck everyone in the world on wendsday?

Wow. I'm impressed.

6 generations? HA!
This would take much, much longer than that. First of all, if a caucasian and an asian breed you get one thing, while a black and latin would give you something totally different. Then of course, you'd have people invariably breeding with the same race, due to numbers, choices, etc... I mean, the asians totally outnumber everyone else. With all the different combinations, and with evolution taking place along the way, it would take an infinite amount of time to reach this homogeny. Unfortunately, it seems like it might take that long for everyone to finally look upon each other equally, etc...
Can we all just jump forward say 3,000 years in time? :D

Ok lets do the raw math if you have a population of genetically heterogenic people and they all interbreed (yes in real life they would not all interbreed) the first generation would be only 1/2 as heterorganic as the last, Repeat now its 1/4, again 1/8, 1/16... ect yes 6 generation of pure interbreeding would result in a very homogenic population. That is assuming everyone was very intentionally interbreeding.

Still don’t get it, ok lest look at it a different way: the first interbreeding would be of pure races and the children (generation 1) would be half and half. Now for Generation 2 we interbreed all the hybrids from the last generation together and assume (By very strict big brother control) that no hybrids of common racial ancestry are interbreed: the result is the generation 2 has 4 racial breeds behind it. We repeat and now Generation 3 has 8 different races interbreed per person. Generation 4 has 16 ect…

As you can see the interbreeding is not one at a time and not additive, but multiples.

Xav,

Haha very funny... huuum that would be a sight to see though. http://www.guru3d.com/forum/images/smilies/drool.gif

Forget about charts and graphs and numbers...wanna know how long it will take to reach genetic homogeny then get off the computer and start doing people...it's the best way to find out.

Originally posted by sargentlard
Forget about charts and graphs and numbers...wanna know how long it will take to reach genetic homogeny then get off the computer and start doing people...it's the best way to find out.


i think thats kind of hard for most sciforumers :-p

It is impossible, simply because as a rule, our nature will avoid homogenity else we will phase out. Or maybe it is not but the generations it will take will be in the millions. By then, we'd be dead anyway from a mosquito bite because the variations between us would be so limited.

If it means more sex for me - then I would have to say I was for it. If not, then I don't really care.

So this pan-handler was at the subway the other day, and he asked me for money for food, WHILE HE WAS EATING! Totally unprofessional.

you're working with too much variation in that model. bring this to the math forum. although an all out orgy might be fun, it is easier to test it with drosophila. but is there enough diversity among flies that can interbreed? you'd need at least 60 or so different types that can breed. the only way to really find out is to do it, and your neighbor.

The problem is in a laboratory controlled situation it is very quick and clean... should follow the math perfectly... but in real life people just don't interbreed like that! In real life only very small percentage of each race's populations are interbreeding and in uncontrolled ways. At the rate people are interbreeding it will be eons before hybrids become the majority.

testing it would have to be psuedo-random then, or rather directed to look random. take a few people from each race and select who they may breed withdo the same with each subsequent generation.

Great topic, but I’m slightly confused about how a ‘race’ is defined by genes. Race as a scientific category is marked by its dependence as a social category. Its relationship to ethnicity is important to such a discussion and should not be excluded. My point is this; the four traditional race types may have existed in 500 BC, however their current existence and importance is heavily suspect. If 4 race types no longer exist then should 16 or perhaps 256 be proposed, and what characteristics should define a race as a posed to an ethnicity? Regardless of how scientific scientists try to be, these characteristics will be defined by society and not ‘nature’.

This is complicated by some defining genes still as the causation agent of phenotypical characteristics. This question is not about breeding peas, but about creating a homogenous population of complex individuals, who through their own agency strive to protect their individually. As many here have pointed out this involves more than just mixing genes through sexual procreation but also involves over coming cultural and national boundaries. The successful computer model which showed that to overcome racism in housing areas was near impossible, since as long as everyone would like to live in a place with 50% of people the same color as themselves, the area will end up being a homogeneous area (100% your racial type). For total interbreeding to take place one must have a active desire (75%) to have children with another racial type.

Further added to this is the effect of gender roles. It is likely that women would interbreed at a higher rate that men (i.e. as some researchers have proposed occurred in the cast system of India), and that women would have control over the outcome of inter-racial sex.

Hope some of this has been interesting.

Originally posted by weebee
Great topic, but I’m slightly confused about how a ‘race’ is defined by genes.

Muhahaha: http://www.racearchives.com/calc/index.asp

Race as a scientific category is marked by its dependence as a social category.

A rather highblown statement, but then again there are several types of big cats that can interbreed and produce fertile offspring, but that is just a social category of the big cats, isn't it?

Its relationship to ethnicity is important to such a discussion and should not be excluded.

Ok then.

My point is this; the four traditional race types may have existed in 500 BC, however their current existence and importance is heavily suspect.

Why?

If 4 race types no longer exist then should 16 or perhaps 256 be proposed, and what characteristics should define a race as a posed to an ethnicity? Regardless of how scientific scientists try to be, these characteristics will be defined by society and not ‘nature’.

This argument relys upon a straw man, the straw man that races are monolithic contsructs. The truth is, populations split, become isolated, and gene frequencies change, and if this goes on for long enough, new species are created, with a resultant increase in phenotypic diversity.

This is complicated by some defining genes still as the causation agent of phenotypical characteristics.

Genes do not cause you to have a nose? What does then? I am intrigued.

This question is not about breeding peas, but about creating a homogenous population of complex individuals, who through their own agency strive to protect their individually.

Ah, so it it MORAL to reduce the original phenotypic diversity to create a homogeonous blob. Intriguing.

As many here have pointed out this involves more than just mixing genes through sexual procreation but also involves over coming cultural and national boundaries.

Overcoming fear is the first step in stepping in front of a car. Overcoming something is not a value in itself. Or?

The successful computer model which showed that to overcome racism in housing areas was near impossible, since as long as everyone would like to live in a place with 50% of people the same color as themselves, the area will end up being a homogeneous area (100% your racial type).

That is pure evil.

For total interbreeding to take place one must have a active desire (75%) to have children with another racial type.

Didn't you say earlier that you had trouble accepting the ''race'' exists? Or only perhaps when we want to deny the obvious. :D

Further added to this is the effect of gender roles. It is likely that women would interbreed at a higher rate that men (i.e. as some researchers have proposed occurred in the cast system of India), and that women would have control over the outcome of inter-racial sex.

Why?

Hope some of this has been interesting.

It certainly has been. :D

Muhahaha!

LMFAO. Wow an incredible stupid site:http://www.racearchives.com/calc/index.asp

How does this thing measure again?LOL!!!!!

The point of the question, and what I was hoping for originally was for someone to tell me that as humans, we are practically 95+-3 % alike genetically. Race not being scientifically quantifiable is a fact that any grade school student should be able to understand. And also even wiith the relatively secluded population of eskimos, homogenity in terms of features and etc is absent.

we are practically 95+-3 % alike genetically

LMFAO!!!! We are 97.6% the same as chimps!!!

Even more reason to get high and sleep with as many beautiful girls as possible.

Hay, cheers for the reply,

Most of what I wrote was following ‘if race does exist then…’. An easy answer to why I don’t like race is this statement made by L. Luca Cavalli Sforza (the web site you proposed uses his research) “I don't like the word "race" because it corresponds to old subdivisions that are inconsistent with genetic reality and unjustifiable by a rational classification.” http://www.balzan.it/english/pb1999/cavalli/paper.htm You should note that the data on the page you listed uses the term ‘population’ not race. It might be helpful if you state how you define race, as a posed to a population, ethnicity ect.

The computer model was based on Thomas C. Schelling’s work. For me this poses some very interesting problems. :rolleyes:

I believe that there was some mitochondria DNA study which showed that women had a higher chance of interbreeding in a higher caste, than men, and this was reasoned as logical, since it would be more socially acceptable for a man to take a lovely looking wife of a low caste, than a high caste woman take a man of a lower caste.(if you’d like the reference I’ll hunt it out). I believe that there is a similar mechanism in Judaism, where non-Jewish women can intermarry as long as the children are brought up Jewish, while the non-Jewish men must convert (which has been quite hard historically)

I’d say that in today’s society good looking women still find it easier to marry outside of their social population (i.e. Asian brides). However women have a greater control over their reproduction, and thus these marriages may not result in interbreeding.

I do hope that those statistics are tongue in cheek….
:D

I think the fact everyone is missing is that the human race originally started as homogenous. So...we've been moving away from that, and why? Location location location. By the time we had the race significantly unifying, the people in the colder climates and the people in the warmer would be moving apart again. The reason for diversity is not b/c of our genes, our genes are directly affected by our environment.

Interesting topic.
I think... I'm probably about to go off topic, oh well.
The different races occured when humans branched off and started going in different directions, living in different environments etc. Eventually these races WOULD have become different species, BUT then "travel" arose and a form of reverse evolution has occured. Races are mingling and breeding with eachother and I can only assume this will lead to one race, back where we started, sort of, we won't look the same as we originally did but we will be one race again apart from small tribes in third world countries.
Actually we'll probably just make new races rather than become one race, multicultural places like america, england and australia will eventually get their own races.

Originally posted by Dr Lou Natic
Interesting topic.
I think... I'm probably about to go off topic, oh well.
The different races occured when humans branched off and started going in different directions, living in different environments etc. Eventually these races WOULD have become different species, BUT then "travel" arose and a form of reverse evolution has occured. Races are mingling and breeding with eachother and I can only assume this will lead to one race, back where we started, sort of, we won't look the same as we originally did but we will be one race again apart from small tribes in third world countries.
Actually we'll probably just make new races rather than become one race, multicultural places like america, england and australia will eventually get their own races.

Actually, due to the interbreeding, the genetic distance that once existed will be erased, i am very dubious of maori or pygmy invasions of europe or asia in pre-history, what will result will be nothing mor than ethnicities, differing primarily by alleles, rather than the absolute prsence or absence of particular genes, so whilst there may be slight regional difference, we will all indeed be a single race eventually.

Who knows, maybe one day we will artificially create new species or subspecies of human, there is simply no chance of preserving the current diversity in light of the fact that from my experience on both this board and in other places, people are far more superstitious than logical, the finger-pointing, and the accusations of that flawed concept ''racism'' bear witness to this. So much for my 40 000 year old seperate heritage. :(

There are more than two alleles for some genes. Since all copies of each gene can't occur in each individual we could never reach homogeneity at a certain resolution.

Besides part of the fun of having sex with everybody would be when you draw those special people. Why would you want everyone to be the same?

It would destroy variability which is one of the most important functional aspects of biology. As well as one of the most attractive esthetically.