View Full Version : Selling Your Pure Body On E-Bay


Reiku
11-14-07, 08:20 AM
Selling your virginity on E-Bay is as bad as prostitution. So why do people openly do this, and why isn't there a restrictive law>?

Reiku;)

Draqs still a virgin isn't he? Perhaps he might consider doing it and get money to move to the Land of the Rising Sun>?

Nikelodeon
11-14-07, 08:33 AM
I think its awesome. I sold my virginity many times.

shorty_37
11-14-07, 08:33 AM
Scam!!

lucifers angel
11-14-07, 08:38 AM
why do people openly becomme prostitutes? or sell they're virginity?

well the chinnese used to sell virginities, the man who took a geishas virginity bid the most.

and people becomme prostitues for various reasons, money, they like sex, they like to have power over men, they like the thrill. I dont see anything wrong with being a prostitute has long as its done in a working girls palce. and NOT on the streets

maxg
11-14-07, 08:55 AM
I'd like to see an example of this occurring. It sounds to me like an urban legend and I don't see the point in discussing the morality of something that doesn't happen.

Tiassa
11-14-07, 09:32 AM
Selling your virginity on E-Bay is as bad as prostitution

It is prostitution.

And, while I can certainly imagine it, and while Shorty's point ("Scam!") leaps quickly to mind, I confess I haven't actually heard about this before. Did you come across an offer, or are you considering making one? Or maybe it's, like, you know, a friend?

I would have thought FOX News would have said something by now. Oh, right. I don't have cable. Maybe they did.

Anyone? Anyone?

Orleander
11-14-07, 09:41 AM
Remember the Martin Short episode on Law & Order, SVU?
A girl sold her virginity for thousands of dollars. It was to pay for college. Since girls are having sex younger, an 18 yr old virigin is a rarity, especially if she is attractive.

I have issues with it, but I cna't find anything morally wrong with it.

lucifers angel
11-14-07, 09:42 AM
Remember the Martin Short episode on Law & Order, SVU?
A girl sold her virginity for thousands of dollars. It was to pay for college. Since girls are having sex younger, an 18 yr old virigin is a rarity, especially if she is attractive.

I have issues with it, but I cna't find anything morally wrong with it.

i saw that one, it was a good episode.

spidergoat
11-14-07, 12:37 PM
What's wrong with prostitution?

Nikelodeon
11-14-07, 12:38 PM
Receiver of swollen goods.

lucifers angel
11-14-07, 03:22 PM
What's wrong with prostitution?

nothing is wrong with it at all

Ghost_007
11-14-07, 04:58 PM
What's wrong with prostitution?

- Disrespects women.
- Paying for sex is sad.
- Prostitutes tend to be hideous.
- You're nearly always getting used goods.
- Risk of disease.
- Can be really bad for those that live near a whorehouse.
- Its gay.

spidergoat
11-14-07, 06:12 PM
-The women do this voluntarily, so what about that?
- It might be sad, but that doesn't make it wrong.
- ditto
- Used? Who cares.
- Disease is only a product of it's illegality.
- Why?
- It could be, doesn't make it wrong.

Enmos
11-14-07, 06:16 PM
A prostitute has sex for a living right ?
So how can selling your virginity make you a prostitute ? You can only sell it once.. :shrug:

Baron Max
11-14-07, 06:35 PM
A prostitute has sex for a living right? So how can selling your virginity make you a prostitute? You can only sell it once.

Perhaps. But how many times can a girl lie about and sell it?

Baron Max

Orleander
11-14-07, 06:38 PM
A prostitute has sex for a living right ?
So how can selling your virginity make you a prostitute ? You can only sell it once.. :shrug:

Prostitution is all about lying anyways. Does a guy really think she wants him? Is on a date? Is the best she ever had? Rocked her world?
A little bit of alum and your a virgin every time.

Enmos
11-14-07, 06:42 PM
Perhaps. But how many times can a girl lie about and sell it?

Baron Max

You can lie about it, but you just cant sell it twice. You can only pretend you sell it twice ;)

Enmos
11-14-07, 06:43 PM
Prostitution is all about lying anyways. Does a guy really think she wants him? Is on a date? Is the best she ever had? Rocked her world?
A little bit of alum and your a virgin every time.

I think those guys just want to get laid, I don't think they care about what the prostitute think about them.. :shrug:

Orleander
11-14-07, 06:45 PM
I think those guys just want to get laid, I don't think they care about what the prostitute think about them.. :shrug:

LOL, they don't care??? LOL
"Holy Crap! You have the tiniest dick I have ever seen!"
I think guys care.

Enmos
11-14-07, 06:46 PM
LOL, they don't care??? LOL
"Holy Crap! You have the tiniest dick I have ever seen!"
I think guys care.

We are talking about prostitutes right ?
A prostitute would never say that, it means one customer less.

Reiku
11-14-07, 06:49 PM
Then the consensus is ''prostitution.''????

Enmos
11-14-07, 06:50 PM
Then the consensus is ''prostitution.''????

No, not if I have a say in it. I think it's weird and amoral, but no prostitution.

Orleander
11-14-07, 06:51 PM
We are talking about prostitutes right ?
A prostitute would never say that, it means one customer less.

agreed, but a guy would care if she said it, now wouldn't he?

And I think a girl would be smarter to sell her virginity for several grand than to give it to the guy who says "If you love me, you would" in the back of his car.

Enmos
11-14-07, 07:04 PM
agreed, but a guy would care if she said it, now wouldn't he?

And I think a girl would be smarter to sell her virginity for several grand than to give it to the guy who says "If you love me, you would" in the back of his car.

Well... :shrug:

1. Probably, but he would be just as happy if she didn't say a thing I suppose.

2. Erm.. that's not a fair example.

Reiku
11-14-07, 08:01 PM
Enmos...]


Neither do I... what are you talking about?

Enmos
11-14-07, 08:05 PM
Enmos...]


Neither do I... what are you talking about?

Uhm what post are you reacting to ?

shorty_37
11-14-07, 08:08 PM
And I think a girl would be smarter to sell her virginity for several grand than to give it to the guy who says "If you love me, you would" in the back of his car.

Jeez how about the girl falls in love with a guy and has sex....mutual sex (make love ) no MONEY INVOLVED!!! What is this world coming to :mad:

Selling her virginity.......she might as well be a prostitute.

Ghost_007
11-14-07, 08:12 PM
-The women do this voluntarily, so what about that?
- It might be sad, but that doesn't make it wrong.
- ditto
- Used? Who cares.
- Disease is only a product of it's illegality.
- Why?
- It could be, doesn't make it wrong.

- Sex is not just about ramming your cock up some girls fanny and then ejaculating in her face. There is the emotional element, you know, all that mushy stuff. I feel once you strip the emotion and love away leaving just the lust and sexual passion, you are left with something very empty, shallow and temporary.

- What type of women become prostitutes? Educated women? Confident women with high self-esteem? Seriously, what sort of person would feel happy about selling their own body to the highest bidder? Is that something to commend? As I was saying, I’d have to say prostitution is likely to attract uneducated, poor (illegal immigrants), unhealthy women. Women that have their back against the wall, no other choice.

- Whorehouses (especially in run down areas) tend to attract criminals/gangsters, drug users/addicts, underage kids. I would not want a whorehouse anywhere near my home.

Donnal
11-14-07, 08:31 PM
maybe they are affraid of love so they see sex as a price cause they paid a nasty price with love then thought they will sell their virginity for a price :(

maybe they dont know any other way of life :shrug:
without love life isnt really worth the bother to care
but is too men they get what they want and some women just dont care about themselves enough to see their is love out there for everyone

redarmy11
11-14-07, 08:49 PM
It is in violation of the eBay rules.

madanthonywayne
11-15-07, 12:39 AM
an 18 yr old virigin is a rarity, especially if she is attractive.

I don't think that's true. I think it's the less atractive girls who are willing to "put out" to attract male attention. The really hot chicks don't have to, and are more prone to be "teases".

lucifers angel
11-15-07, 02:41 AM
- Disrespects women.
- Paying for sex is sad.
- Prostitutes tend to be hideous.
- You're nearly always getting used goods.
- Risk of disease.
- Can be really bad for those that live near a whorehouse.
- Its gay.

- no it doesnt, not if the women want to do it.
- sad but, some men find it necessaery, (would you prefer hey pay for it or rape)
- yes true
- not if the girl and you use condoms, which in massage parlours in blackpool is a nessecity
- the massage parlours in blackpool are not anywhere near houses, and also the one in preston that is, they are very careful about the times they open and close, ad the neighbours are not bothered.
- seriously its not gay.

Orleander
11-15-07, 06:59 AM
Jeez how about the girl falls in love with a guy and has sex....mutual sex (make love ) no MONEY INVOLVED!!! What is this world coming to :mad:

Selling her virginity.......she might as well be a prostitute.

I'm just saying, virginity isn't as important to some people as it is to others. If a guy is willing to pay thousands of dollars for it, why not? :shrug:
I think prostitution is horrible and sad, but you're never ever EVER gonna stop it.

And if she only does it the one time, does that really make her a prostitute? I suppose in the stricted sense of the word it does, but to my thinking, no.

Orleander
11-15-07, 07:00 AM
- What type of women become prostitutes? Educated women? Confident women with high self-esteem? Seriously, what sort of person would feel happy about selling their own body to the highest bidder? Is that something to commend? As I was saying, I’d have to say prostitution is likely to attract uneducated, poor (illegal immigrants), unhealthy women. Women that have their back against the wall, no other choice....

what type of man gets busted with these women?

Enmos
11-15-07, 07:02 AM
I'm just saying, virginity isn't as important to some people as it is to others. If a guy is willing to pay thousands of dollars for it, why not? :shrug:
I think prostitution is horrible and sad, but you're never ever EVER gonna stop it.

And if she only does it the one time, does that really make her a prostitute? I suppose in the stricted sense of the word it does, but to my thinking, no.

One can argue that she behaves like a prostitute, but in the strict sense of the word she isn't. She isn't making a living out of it.

Ghost_007
11-15-07, 12:36 PM
no it doesnt, not if the women want to do it.

Yes it does, even if woman want to be prostitutes. Woman who sell their bodies to sexual predators are disrespecting themselves. They are regarded as scum by nearly all men and women. I've never come across one woman that had a positive attitude to prostitution, they all looked down on prostitution.

sad but, some men find it necessaery, (would you prefer hey pay for it or rape)

Are men that can't get laid more likely to rape?
There are many alternatives to prostitutes e.g. pornography, hollowed-out cucumbers etc. Maybe those guys that can't get laid should actually try harder, people should not be making excuses for them.

not if the girl and you use condoms, which in massage parlours in blackpool is a nessecity

I've heard of men refusing to use condoms. What happens then? What is a woman supposed to do when she's faced with a bastard built up like a tank refusing to use a condom? (Imagine prostitutes visiting clients) She doesn't have much choice, does she?

the massage parlours in blackpool are not anywhere near houses, and also the one in preston that is, they are very careful about the times they open and close, ad the neighbours are not bothered.

The neighbours are not bothered? Really? Did you speak to all of them?

I can't see how anyone (apart from punters) would be happy to have a whorehouse near their own home.

Ghost_007
11-15-07, 12:45 PM
what type of man gets busted with these women?

God knows.

I know two guys that have visited prostitutes. They are both obsessed with sex, they would bone anything with a skirt on. However they are very awkward with women, they don't really know how to treat a woman. Its all about sex for them. One of them has this thing about putting his big toe into a woman's part from behind, and then spitting on her...:bugeye:

shorty_37
11-15-07, 01:51 PM
If a guy is willing to pay thousands of dollars for it, why not? :shrug:



What do you mean why not??????

So if you were a young girl and someone offered you money for your virginity you would do it?

lucifers angel
11-15-07, 02:10 PM
Yes it does, even if woman want to be prostitutes. Woman who sell their bodies to sexual predators are disrespecting themselves. They are regarded as scum by nearly all men and women. I've never come across one woman that had a positive attitude to prostitution, they all looked down on prostitution.



Are men that can't get laid more likely to rape?
There are many alternatives to prostitutes e.g. pornography, hollowed-out cucumbers etc. Maybe those guys that can't get laid should actually try harder, people should not be making excuses for them.



I've heard of men refusing to use condoms. What happens then? What is a woman supposed to do when she's faced with a bastard built up like a tank refusing to use a condom? (Imagine prostitutes visiting clients) She doesn't have much choice, does she?



The neighbours are not bothered? Really? Did you speak to all of them?

I can't see how anyone (apart from punters) would be happy to have a whorehouse near their own home.



actually i know for a fact that neighbours of such places in blackpool are not bothered has long has the girls keep it indoors so they do

shorty_37
11-15-07, 02:12 PM
I would not be happy! if it was in my neighbourhood. Although I could never see that happening.

Orleander
11-15-07, 02:31 PM
....However they are very awkward with women, they don't really know how to treat a woman. ....One of them has this thing about putting his big toe into a woman's part from behind, and then spitting on her...:bugeye:

well, that's apparent. I can see why he goes to prostitutes. He's gonna have a hard time finding a woman who loves his kink as much as he does.
And I can't believe he told you that!!! LOL

Orleander
11-15-07, 02:33 PM
What do you mean why not??????

So if you were a young girl and someone offered you money for your virginity you would do it?

Would I do it? Probably not. I guess it depends on how poor I was.
But just because I wouldn't do something doesn't mean I can tell someone else they can't do it. (I'm not a christian, remember?? ;))
Where would I get the nerve to tell someone else how to have sex??

shorty_37
11-15-07, 02:36 PM
Would I do it? Probably not. I guess it depends on how poor I was.
But just because I wouldn't do something doesn't mean I can tell someone else they can't do it. (I'm not a christian, remember?? ;))
Where would I get the nerve to tell someone else how to have sex??

Well the way you are saying it, sounds like you are more for the idea then against it. What would you think if your daughter did that?

Orleander
11-15-07, 02:43 PM
Well the way you are saying it, sounds like you are more for the idea then against it. What would you think if your daughter did that?

I would hope my daughters life would never reach the point where she would have to sell her body.
But I am not against the idea.

shichimenshyo
11-15-07, 02:43 PM
I'll sell foot...anyone need a spare?

Orleander
11-15-07, 02:45 PM
I'll sell foot...anyone need a spare?

??? Is it the one your parents left in your ass?

shichimenshyo
11-15-07, 02:46 PM
??? Is it the one your parents left in your ass?

No that keeps my poo in.

Orleander
11-15-07, 02:49 PM
OK, well then, I'd take one of the other ones. Never know when it would come in handy.

shichimenshyo
11-15-07, 02:51 PM
I use it like a rabbits foot ...except its a persons....

Orleander
11-15-07, 02:54 PM
I use it like a rabbits foot ...except its a persons....

If its not your own biological foot, I don't want it. :bugeye:

shichimenshyo
11-15-07, 02:57 PM
If its not your own biological foot, I don't want it. :bugeye:

crap!...I lost another potential customer:(

Ghost_007
11-15-07, 03:00 PM
well, that's apparent. I can see why he goes to prostitutes. He's gonna have a hard time finding a woman who loves his kink as much as he does.
And I can't believe he told you that!!! LOL

He didn't just tell me, he demonstrated his fantasy infront of me and a friend. :runaway:

shorty_37
11-15-07, 03:31 PM
I would hope my daughters life would never reach the point where she would have to sell her body.
But I am not against the idea.

I think a girl that thinks she can make some money by selling her virginity to the highest bidder is a whore. I am talking about a girl that does NOT NEED the money to survive. Is just doing it to make some money off it.

shorty_37
11-15-07, 03:33 PM
I don't think that's true. I think it's the less atractive girls who are willing to "put out" to attract male attention. The really hot chicks don't have to, and are more prone to be "teases".

I agree with that. When I was a teenager I could have fucked numerous guys but I didn't. I got called a tease quite a bit. The ugly girls seemed to be quite busy though. As the guys would laugh behind their backs.

But from what I see going on TODAY........I am with Orleander I doubt there are many 18 yr old virgins around.

Avatar
11-15-07, 05:02 PM
Waaaaaaaait, don't get it, bodies of those who have had sex are impure and those who haven't are pure? On what criteria? It's ridiculous.

Reiku
11-15-07, 05:35 PM
Well that was a liberating and very mixed read...

Orleander
11-15-07, 06:51 PM
He didn't just tell me, he demonstrated his fantasy infront of me and a friend. :runaway:

Holy $%#^...did he have a girl or was he demonstrating on an imaginary one.

Orleander
11-15-07, 06:54 PM
I think a girl that thinks she can make some money by selling her virginity to the highest bidder is a whore. .....

well of course you do. :rolleyes:
Just making money off it, like say....paying for college because she can't afford the first semester and wouldn't be able to go otherwise?

Orleander
11-15-07, 06:55 PM
I agree with that. When I was a teenager I could have fucked numerous guys but I didn't. I got called a tease quite a bit. The ugly girls seemed to be quite busy though. ....

LOL, I think any teenage girl could have had sex with numerous guys no matter what she looks like.
The ugly girls huh? lol, you need to quit hanging out with Sandy, you raving beauty you.

shorty_37
11-18-07, 12:09 AM
you need to quit hanging out with Sandy.

I don't hang out with Religious Transvestites...

shorty_37
11-18-07, 12:14 AM
well of course you do. :rolleyes:
Just making money off it, like say....paying for college because she can't afford the first semester and wouldn't be able to go otherwise?

Well lets say she is using the money to hit the mall to buy more clothes, shoes, purses, new cell phone.......?

Orleander
11-18-07, 02:38 PM
Well lets say she is using the money to hit the mall to buy more clothes, shoes, purses, new cell phone.......?

I have a hard time believing a girl like that is a saleable virgin.

Reiku
11-19-07, 02:51 PM
It's a real shame really.

Orleander
11-19-07, 06:04 PM
It's a real shame really.

yeah, but most of the choices we make in life can be.

Enmos
11-19-07, 06:45 PM
yeah, but most of the choices we make in life can be.

Most lives are ;)

Baron Max
11-19-07, 06:50 PM
Most lives are

Ooh, you shouldn't say things like that around this site or they'll start call you a "Baron Max"! And you sure don't want that to happen, do you? :D

Baron Max

Letticia
11-28-07, 08:24 PM
I've heard of men refusing to use condoms. What happens then? What is a woman supposed to do when she's faced with a bastard built up like a tank refusing to use a condom? (Imagine prostitutes visiting clients) She doesn't have much choice, does she?

Only in places like (most of) United States, where it is illegal. Where prostitution is legal and regulated, like most of Europe, she most certainly has a choice to tell him to get lost. (Actually, in countries where prostitution is legal she often does not actually have a "choice": not using condom is illegal even if she wanted to.)

Letticia
11-28-07, 08:27 PM
I would hope my daughters life would never reach the point where she would have to sell her body.
But I am not against the idea.

What if she does not have to (not starving, not homeless), but thinks that's a good way to upgrade from Honda Civic to BMW? Or from macaroni-and-cheese to lamb chops?

draqon
11-28-07, 08:28 PM
I exist to fulfill the destiny of my soul and enrich it by choosing the right honest and good choice in the materialistic world of life.

This so called virginity sell out is out of morals of mine

shorty_37
11-28-07, 08:31 PM
What if she does not have to (not starving, not homeless), but thinks that's a good way to upgrade from Honda Civic to BMW?

Exactly!! what I was saying.

Letticia
11-28-07, 08:32 PM
BTW, I do not believe it (selling virginity on eBay) actually ever happened. I think it's a hoax. eBay has a rule against selling body parts, which this would be.

Letticia
11-28-07, 08:33 PM
Exactly!! what I was saying.

I am sorry, but I don't get it. What were you saying?

shorty_37
11-28-07, 08:34 PM
Well lets say she is using the money to hit the mall to buy more clothes, shoes, purses, new cell phone.......?

I said this earlier.........and I agree with your point of upgrading to a BMW.
There are a lot of prisses and whores where I live. I would not put it past some of them to do anything to accumulate more "stuff"

iceaura
11-28-07, 09:25 PM
I once knew a virgin girl who had a fantasy of selling herself for sex - to a rich and handsome guy chosen by herself, of course.

It turned her on for some reason, more than just having sex (may be why she was still a virgin, at 22). I wouldn't be surprised if she did it.

draqon
11-28-07, 09:30 PM
I once knew a virgin girl who had a fantasy of selling herself for sex - to a rich and handsome guy chosen by herself, of course.

It turned her on for some reason, more than just having sex (may be why she was still a virgin, at 22). I wouldn't be surprised if she did it.

A virgin girl selling herself for sex to a rich handsome guy? thats finding a rich handsome husband and getting everything from him for her sex with him.

:bugeye: whats' the world coming to? ... oh my. oh my.

Letticia
11-28-07, 09:41 PM
I once knew a virgin girl who had a fantasy of selling herself for sex - to a rich and handsome guy chosen by herself, of course.

It turned her on for some reason, more than just having sex (may be why she was still a virgin, at 22). I wouldn't be surprised if she did it.

Did that fantasy involve a diamond ring?

iceaura
11-29-07, 01:18 AM
Did that fantasy involve a diamond ring? Nope. No marriage. Abandoned promiscuous porno, one night stand - maybe a weekend, at the outside.

She was pretty, too. I was contemplating buying lottery tickets.

Orleander
11-29-07, 06:53 AM
...There are a lot of prisses and whores where I live. I would not put it past some of them to do anything to accumulate more "stuff"

what prisses and whores sell their virginity? Especially whores. :bugeye: Isn't the whole definition of whore connected to being VERY non-virginal?

Pets should give classes on how to accumulate more stuff. I don't think it involves sex.

Orleander
11-29-07, 06:56 AM
What if she does not have to (not starving, not homeless), but thinks that's a good way to upgrade from Honda Civic to BMW? Or from macaroni-and-cheese to lamb chops?

hmmm, I don't know. I'm going by the child I have and I can't imagine her doing it unless she had to.

She does have a very materialistic friend and I can see her doing it though. Especially once she realized her virginity had monetary value. What's teh harm in selling it to whom you choose?

I guess I just think virginity is overrated. I would never want my kids to be virgins when they got married. I also think it would be a shame if they married the first person they had sex with.

Tiassa
11-29-07, 10:08 AM
What's teh harm in selling it to whom you choose?

Twofold:

(1) Prostitution is illegal.
(2) Such an action would reinforce the very myth of virginity that you call "overrated".

Such mysoginistic myths aren't helpful in this society.

Orleander
11-29-07, 10:17 AM
Yes I know its illegal.
I think men value a woman's virginity more than the woman does. Its over rated.

ashura
11-29-07, 10:27 AM
Twofold:

(1) Prostitution is illegal.
(2) Such an action would reinforce the very myth of virginity that you call "overrated".

Such mysoginistic myths aren't helpful in this society.

How exactly is it misogynistic? My definition of the word is hatred or mistrust of women.

Tiassa
11-29-07, 10:54 AM
How exactly is it misogynistic? My definition of the word is hatred or mistrust of women

Obliging women to exist according to more restrictive customs? Ask yourself why virgins are so important to so many men. And if you come back with the idea of medical cleanliness, we'll know you're lying.

The virgin obsession is exploitative and desires a woman who is both ignorant of sexual intercourse and unprepared. Men want that tightness, that delicate hesitance. In other words, men want to initiate the woman into painful domination disguised as love.

Now, perhaps you can construct some theoretic version of the myth that avoids all that, but it won't reflect how men actually act among themselves when the subject comes up.

In one of his last funny moments, Dennis Miller made the point that he didn't want the seventy-two virgins of the Islamic terrorist's paradise. After a while, he'd want someone who knows what she's doing. You know, slip him the finger or something. Anything, as long as it's dirty.

Womanhood is largely questioned and denigrated if that woman has taken prior pleasure. Perhaps you remember the punchline to the following joke:

What is the difference between a slut and a bitch?

ashura
11-29-07, 12:35 PM
Obliging women to exist according to more restrictive customs? Ask yourself why virgins are so important to so many men. And if you come back with the idea of medical cleanliness, we'll know you're lying.

The virgin obsession is exploitative and desires a woman who is both ignorant of sexual intercourse and unprepared. Men want that tightness, that delicate hesitance. In other words, men want to initiate the woman into painful domination disguised as love.

Now, perhaps you can construct some theoretic version of the myth that avoids all that, but it won't reflect how men actually act among themselves when the subject comes up.

In one of his last funny moments, Dennis Miller made the point that he didn't want the seventy-two virgins of the Islamic terrorist's paradise. After a while, he'd want someone who knows what she's doing. You know, slip him the finger or something. Anything, as long as it's dirty.

Womanhood is largely questioned and denigrated if that woman has taken prior pleasure. Perhaps you remember the punchline to the following joke:

What is the difference between a slut and a bitch?

Good points and I'd rather see these concepts gone too.

But I'm still not sure if this would classify as misogyny. It's primarily, like you said, a desire for dominance and physical pleasure, the vehicle for it just happening to be women. I can see why you would say it's misogyny though.