I haven't really given this any thought yet.
It just popped into my head, so I decided to spit it out and see where it lands.

All animals have base individual and species survival instincts.
Other instincts derrive and develop from that base.
Man has no "natural" defenses (claws, speed, poison etc) relative to many other species.
Man developed intellect and reason.
With reason comes justification, dishonesty, intentions...
Man uses reason, justification, dishonesty, intentions etc, to cause harm to the species and individual.
Man brings about his own demise, due to evolution.

eh.
Sounded better in my head. :p

Man also triumphs over all other things and makes himself sovereign of the world through those same things. Hardly a a "self-defeat".

Man also triumphs over all other things and makes himself sovereign of the world through those same things. Hardly a a "self-defeat".
It is self-defeating.
World Sovereignty is a temporary condition building to critical mass.

That's kind of the point.
The destruction of man is the next logical step in this cycle, which would not have happened without the development of reason.

One_Raven:

Save man could rule perpetually. He has the power to control evolution itself and to spread his kind to the stars. There may be a time when mankind becomes virtually immune to extinction.

Sure, it is possible.
As things are going and the way the cycle seems to be following, I just don't see it happening.

He has the power to control evolution itself....

I wonder how you can look at the world around you, and look at human history and be so optimistic about mankind?

You say man has the power to control evolution, yet he's having an almost impossible task of controlling violent crime in human cities. ...he's having an almost impossible task having enough fresh, clean water to drink in some areas of the world (even in some areas of the USA!). ...the trash and garbage that man produces is becoming overwhelming in many areas of the world, including the USA. Groups of humans hate and kill other groups of humans just because they worship god a bit different!

How, in considering those aspects of human history, can anyone actually be optimistic about mankind?

Baron Max

One_Raven:

Considering we've mapped the genome and have travelled to near-by space, we're basically on the cusp of becoming God-beings.

Baron Max:

I wonder how you can look at the world around you, and look at human history and be so optimistic about mankind?

You say man has the power to control evolution, yet he's having an almost impossible task of controlling violent crime in human cities. ...he's having an almost impossible task having enough fresh, clean water to drink in some areas of the world (even in some areas of the USA!). ...the trash and garbage that man produces is becoming overwhelming in many areas of the world, including the USA. Groups of humans hate and kill other groups of humans just because they worship god a bit different!

How, in considering those aspects of human history, can anyone actually be optimistic about mankind?

Violent crime is easy enough to deter, when you realize that the animal-man is best dealt with through shame and violence. Public corporal punishment should suffice, specifically when stripped naked and open to public ridicule.

Fresh water scarcities? The result of third-world conditions or first-world idiocy. Science can take care of this problem easy. If need be, we can even begin massive sea-water conversion plants.

Trash can be recycled and/or launched into space once mass-drivers make such a thing more cost effective.

Religious wars can be stopped by powerful secular rulers. Rome, anyone?

One_Raven:

Considering we've mapped the genome and have travelled to near-by space, we're basically on the cusp of becoming God-beings.


PJ, considering that you believe that war is the most efficient way to create change, I'd hardly associate yourself with God-being.

Onefinity:

Tell that to Mars.

One_raven, congrats on the thread....interesting topic.
Whilst over all I am positive and optimistic about humanities long term survival it is true that we face problems that if we are not up to overcoming we will cease to exist.
Issues suuch as global warming and climate change. Issues such over population. And most important issues of mental and physical health.

I am of the opinion that it is going to take significant change in individuals philosophy if humanity is to survive.

There seems to be a cusp or crucial period in our evolution that we are approaching.

For example:
Ask yourself the question about creativity, in fields such as music and the arts and project that question 200 years into the future.

What music will we be listening to and creating in 200 years from now?
It is hard to imagine that as in the music industry there is already a sense of non originality present.
If we manage to exist for those two hundred years or less we will face a state of creative ennui.


Just my quick thoughts...need to go and will post again...

Quantum Quack:

Music has always been unoriginal, really. The majority of music is just there so we have something to occupy our ears with when doing something else. Heck, not even the sex aspect is new, as flute girls used to be prostitutes in Rome.

Sure, it is possible.
As things are going and the way the cycle seems to be following, I just don't see it happening.

Which is IMO, reflective of a "tired attitude" wherein you've really kind of lost your mind. :p

Consider the task of exterminating all of humanity. I mean really consider it, the details. It sounds easy, but goddamn it'd take something like "planet gets sucked into sun" or "obliterated by giant space-ray" or any number of imaginary events. The thing being is what Agent Smith said - which rings true for the most part in this context: We're a virus. If only a few survive whatever calamity - the species can most likely regenerate. I think it'd be a lot tougher to kill off the species than just to imagine it. Unless something almost unimaginable happens, I'd wager humans (or at least whatever we become by choosing or happening upon our next step in evolution) will be around for a LONG time to come.

Man has no "natural" defenses (claws, speed, poison etc)

Kind of nit-picky but this isn't exactly true - why do you think you've got so much hair down at your crotch and ass and armpits as well when most of the rest of our "fur" has become nothing but a light vestigial fuzz? It's meant to trap smelly things - humans natural defense is to smell awful and taste just as bad.

I think evolution has lead to an incredibly resourceful animal with the power to destroy everything on Earth, but we also have great potential. It could go either way. Heaven or hell, it's our choice.

I think evolution has lead to an incredibly resourceful animal with the power to destroy everything on Earth, but we also have great potential. It could go either way. Heaven or hell, it's our choice.
If only our potential to destroy things was equaly reflected in an ability to create things. Seems a bit lopsided to me....well I guess it is always easy to destroy somthing but damn hard to create something.