I don't know what to say ...Finland? Finland hasn't been in the news since, what, the end of World War II? Finland? Geez, this is ... Wow!

Baron Max

TUUSULA, Finland (AP) - At least seven people were killed Wednesday after an 18-year-old man opened fire at a high school in southern Finland, a medical official said.

"It's at least seven dead," medical response leader Eero Hirvensalo told The Associated Press. Another person was "severely injured," while 10 other people had minor injuries, Hirvensalo said.

A municipal official said earlier that some students remained inside the school. Police said the situation was "under control," indicating they were not being held hostage.

It was the first known school shooting in Finland, where gun ownership is fairly common by European standards, but shootings are rare.

THIS IS A BREAKING NEWS UPDATE. Check back soon for further information. AP's earlier story is below.

HELSINKI, Finland (AP) - A teenager opened fire at a high school in southern Finland on Wednesday, killing one person and wounding three others before the building was surrounded by police, a municipal official said.

The officials said some students remained inside the school but police said the situation was "under control," indicating they were not being held hostage.

Heidi Hagman, assistant to the municipality director in Tuusula, some 30 miles north of the capital, Helsinki, told The Associated Press that the Jokela high school had been surrounded after an 18-year-old man shot four people and killed one.

It was the first known school shooting in Finland, where gun ownership is fairly common by European standards, but shootings are rare.

"Some of the pupils have managed to escape from the school but others are still inside," Hagman said.

She said more than 400 students between the ages of 12 and 18 were enrolled.

"The situation is under control," said police spokesman Tero Haapala, adding that "there is no danger to outsiders now."

Police did not confirm that someone had been killed.

Prime Minister Matti Vanhanen described the situation as "extremely tragic" and said the government would hold an emergency meeting.

Copyright AP News

Finland is not the "flower" country of freedom it appeart to be in the news.

Was Spurious involved somehow ?

What can I say, shit happens everywhere.. :shrug: Sad though.

Finland is not the "flower" country of freedom it appeart to be in the news.

Flowers? I thought Finland was covered in ice and snow 11 months of the year ....with a few days of sunshine in that 12th month! :D

But a shooting at a Finland school? That's just so far out of my realm of imagination that I can't even grasp it.

It's almost like someone telling me that whales were seen crawling across Nebraska. There's just no place in my mind to put something like that.

Baron Max

The last time a school shooting happened in Finland was back in 1989.

Keep in mind crazy people exist everywhere. Just because a country is more secular, more liberal, and has a higher standard of living doesn't mean things like this can't happen.

It's almost like someone telling me that whales were seen crawling across Nebraska

Actually at one time in history whales were in Nebraska when the ocean

covered it.

there are idiots in every country. it's just plain statistics. however the Finnish idiots seem to have been influenced by the cultural export of the U S and A

there are idiots in every country. it's just plain statistics. however the Finnish idiots seem to have been influenced by the cultural export of the U S and A
How do you know it's a result of American culture?

Has anyone seen the kids manifesto that was on Youtube? Youtube suspended his account after the shootings. I'm sure it would shed some light on his motivations.

How do you know it's a result of American culture?

Has anyone seen the kids manifesto that was on Youtube? Youtube suspended his account after the shootings. I'm sure it would shed some light on his motivations.

because school shootings are a purely American phenomenon. (not anymore). at least you can say that it started in the US.

because school shootings are a purely American phenomenon. (not anymore). at least you can say that it started in the US.
No school shootings are not purely an American phenomenon. The majority of school related shootings do occur in the US however that does not mean it's one of Americas cultural exports.

Anyone with a gun or other weapon can attack a school if motivated to do so.

No school shootings are not purely an American phenomenon. The majority of school related shootings do occur in the US however that does not mean it's one of Americas cultural exports.

Anyone with a gun or other weapon can attack a school if motivated to do so.

can. but doesn't. it is a purely American export.
there was a recent shooting in China, and one in Finland. i've never heard of similar things before Columbine.

violence, stabbing, even murder: yes. but not mass shooting. that is purely an American export. through movies / shows and news stories that reach all corners of the earth it ends up being a cultural export.

I don't know what to say ...Finland? Finland hasn't been in the news since, what, the end of World War II? Finland? Geez, this is ... Wow!

Baron Max

TUUSULA, Finland (AP) - At least seven people were killed Wednesday after an 18-year-old man opened fire at a high school in southern Finland, a medical official said.

"It's at least seven dead," medical response leader Eero Hirvensalo told The Associated Press. Another person was "severely injured," while 10 other people had minor injuries, Hirvensalo said.

A municipal official said earlier that some students remained inside the school. Police said the situation was "under control," indicating they were not being held hostage.

It was the first known school shooting in Finland, where gun ownership is fairly common by European standards, but shootings are rare.

THIS IS A BREAKING NEWS UPDATE. Check back soon for further information. AP's earlier story is below.

HELSINKI, Finland (AP) - A teenager opened fire at a high school in southern Finland on Wednesday, killing one person and wounding three others before the building was surrounded by police, a municipal official said.

The officials said some students remained inside the school but police said the situation was "under control," indicating they were not being held hostage.

Heidi Hagman, assistant to the municipality director in Tuusula, some 30 miles north of the capital, Helsinki, told The Associated Press that the Jokela high school had been surrounded after an 18-year-old man shot four people and killed one.

It was the first known school shooting in Finland, where gun ownership is fairly common by European standards, but shootings are rare.

"Some of the pupils have managed to escape from the school but others are still inside," Hagman said.

She said more than 400 students between the ages of 12 and 18 were enrolled.

"The situation is under control," said police spokesman Tero Haapala, adding that "there is no danger to outsiders now."

Police did not confirm that someone had been killed.

Prime Minister Matti Vanhanen described the situation as "extremely tragic" and said the government would hold an emergency meeting.

Copyright AP News

Not surprising since Finland has the most guns per capita after the USA and one other country. Maybe two.

can. but doesn't. it is a purely American export.
there was a recent shooting in China, and one in Finland. i've never heard of similar things before Columbine.

That you haven't heard about it doesn't mean that it doesn't exist. But, hey, why let a little thing like ignorance get in the way of blaming America for everything?

can. but doesn't. it is a purely American export.
there was a recent shooting in China, and one in Finland. i've never heard of similar things before Columbine.

violence, stabbing, even murder: yes. but not mass shooting. that is purely an American export. through movies / shows and news stories that reach all corners of the earth it ends up being a cultural export.
No it isn't. Try finding a list of recorded school related shootings. They happened long before Columbine.

That you haven't heard about it doesn't mean that it doesn't exist. But, hey, why let a little thing like ignorance get in the way of blaming America for everything?

"blame America for everything" ???

lol are you for real?

No it isn't. Try finding a list of recorded school related shootings. They happened long before Columbine.

if it's in the US it adds to my argument.

"blame America for everything" ???

lol are you for real?
LOL I figured you were coming from the opposite end by over blowing Americas cultural impact on the world.

if it's in the US it adds to my argument.
Actually no it doesn't since you're demonstrating a lack of knowledge regarding the subject.

LOL I figured you were coming from the opposite end by over blowing Americas cultural impact on the world.


Actually no it doesn't since you're demonstrating a lack of knowledge regarding the subject.

America's culture reaches all corners of the earth where they have radio / TV. movies, TV shows, cartoons, music, internet sites, news, and so on and so on. hell, i grew up on American cartoons in Israel -- Casper, Bugs Bunny, Flinstones, Jetsons, Transformers -- and those are just the cartoons.

in the 60's/70's there was a group in Israel called "the Black Panthers" fighting for some social rights. guess who they were inspired by...

i'm giving you a perspective of someone who grew up outside the US. have you? ask any immigrant and they'll agree with what i'm saying.

America's culture reaches all corners of the earth where they have radio / TV. movies, TV shows, cartoons, music, internet sites, news, and so on and so on. hell, i grew up on American cartoons in Israel -- Casper, Bugs Bunny, Flinstones, Jetsons, Transformers -- and those are just the cartoons.

in the 60's/70's there was a group in Israel called "the Black Panthers" fighting for some social rights. guess who they were inspired by...

i'm giving you a perspective of someone who grew up outside the US. have you? ask any immigrant and they'll agree with what i'm saying.
It's hardly surprising Israel and America have close cultural ties considering the special relationship they have with each other. Probably the best example for you but not the best example to describe how America exports it's culture.

true. but Israel isn't the only country where American media is exported to.

"The gunman had posted a video called "Jokela high school massacre 11/7/2007" on YouTube in the past two weeks.

The video showed a picture of a building by a lake and photos of him holding a gun.

Going by the username Sturmgeist89, he called himself a "social Darwinist" who would "eliminate all who I see unfit". "Sturmgeist" means storm spirit in German."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/7082795.stm

wow...that student was quite efficient though.

He only used a .22 handgun.

American students need automatic weapons, high caliber handguns or shotguns.

that's the spirit that stopped the Soviet advance in WW2.

"The gunman had posted a video called "Jokela high school massacre 11/7/2007" on YouTube in the past two weeks.

The video showed a picture of a building by a lake and photos of him holding a gun.

Going by the username Sturmgeist89, he called himself a "social Darwinist" who would "eliminate all who I see unfit". "Sturmgeist" means storm spirit in German."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/7082795.stm

Another militant atheist. Tch tch

wow...that student was quite efficient though. He only used a .22 handgun.

Oh, well, good! Killing with efficency is much better than using all those big, powerful weapons ....people killed with efficent guns aren't quite as dead as those killed with those big, nasty guns.

Thanks, Spurious, I feel much better now, knowing those dead people are quite as dead as they would be in America. I was worried about the Fins, but not any more. :D

Baron Max

Oh, well, good! Killing with efficency is much better than using all those big, powerful weapons ....people killed with efficent guns aren't quite as dead as those killed with those big, nasty guns.

Thanks, Spurious, I feel much better now, knowing those dead people are quite as dead as they would be in America. I was worried about the Fins, but not any more. :D

Baron Max

No problem

friend

/salutes

No problem

Hey, he might have used a little .22, but a report just now on the news said he pumped over 20 bullets into one body. Is that more efficent than one .44 Magnum bullet which blows bodies apart?

Baron Max

Hey, he might have used a little .22, but a report just now on the news said he pumped over 20 bullets into one body. Is that more efficent than one .44 Magnum bullet which blows bodies apart?

Baron Max

must have been the principal. He got it coming

Why hasn't anyone pointed out yet that this case proves why all of the gun control measures championed by James R (mandatory licensing, storage requirements, club membership, no semi-autos) are not effective at preventing shooting rampages?

Another militant atheist. Tch tch
ROFL I never get tired of this buzzword.

Here's the nutjobs ramblings for those interested.
Natural Selector’s Manifesto

How Did Natural Selection Turn Into Idiocratic Selection?

Today the process of natural selection is totally misguided. It has reversed. Human race has been devolving very long time for now. Retarded and stupid , weak-minded people are reproducing more and faster than the intelligent, strong-minded people. Laws protect the retarded majority which selects the leaders of society. Modern human race has not only betrayed its ancestors, but the future generations too. Homo Sapiens, HAH! It is more like a Homo Idioticus to me! When I look at people I see every day in society, school and everywhere... I can’t say I belong to same race as the lousy, miserable, arrogant, selfish human race! No! I have evolved one step above!

Naturality has been discriminated through religions, ideologies, laws and other mass delusion systems. Individual, who is going through his/hers natural power process and trying to live naturally, but is being told that the way he acts or thinks is wrong and stupid, will usually have some reactions which might be considered as "psychological disorders" by the establishment. In reality they are just natural reactions to the disruption of natural power process. They will have some of the following (depending on individual's personality): feelings of inferiority / superiority, hostility, aggression, frustration, depression, self-hatred / hatred towards other people, suicidal / homicidal thought etc... and it is completely normal.

Humans are just a species among other animals and world does not exist only for humans. Death and killing is not a tragedy, it happens in nature all the time between all species. Not all human lives are important or worth saving. Only superior (intelligent, self-aware, strong-minded) individuals should survive while inferior (stupid, retarded, weak-minded masses) should perish.

There is also another solution to the problem: stupid people as slaves and intelligent people as free. What I mean is that they who have free minds, are capable of intelligent existential and philosophical thinking and know what justice is, should be free and rulers... and the robotic masses, they can be slaves since they do not mind it now either and because their minds are on so retarded level. The gangsters that now rule societies, would of course get what they deserve.

Of course there is a final solution too: death of entire human race. It would solve every problem of humanity. The faster human race is wiped out from this planet, the better... no one should be left alive. I have no mercy for the scum of earth, the pathetic human race.

Collective Deindividualization: Totalitarianism & Delusions Of Democracy

Collective deindividualization is a phenomenon where individual will be trained as part of the mindless herd controlled by state, corporation, church or some other organization, group, ideology, religion or mass delusion system and adopt it's rules, morality and codes of conduct. This phenomenon has been familiar in all despotic, authoritarian, totalitarian, monarchist, communist, socialist, nazi, fascist and religious societies troughout history. Also, the modern western democratic republics have the same phenomenon. It is just done so that people will think they are free and don't realize they are being enslaved. Majority of people in society are weak-minded and ignorant retards, masses that act like programmed robots and accept voluntarily slavery. But not me! I am self-aware and realize what is going on in society! I have a free mind! And I choose to be free rather than live like a robot or slave. You can say I have a “god complex”, sure... then you have a “group complex”! Compared to you retarded masses, I am actually godlike.

Totalitarian governments rule people through education system, consumerism, mass media, monopoly on the legitimate use of physical force (police, military) and laws discriminating people who think differently than the majority. Democracy... you think democracy means freedom and justice? You are wrong. Democracy is a dictatorship of the moral majority... and the majority is manipulated and ruled by the state mafia. Modern western democracy has nothing to do with freedom or justice; it is totalitarian and corrupted system. Laws are made over the heads of the people and people are being brainwashed to support the system and connected to the institutional structures immediately after their birth. Societies are being ruled by manipulative and charismatic politicians who only care about the interests of majority, and who do not base their decisions on reason but emotions and feelings of the masses. These masses let the authorities of state to make all the important decisions for them. The masses will get an education, they study, get a job, go to work and vote in elections. They think they are free and don’t criticise or question the system. They have become robots. It is like a constructed mechanism in mind, that leaves little choice for an individual to think, talk and act independently.

Three Kinds Of Humans

There are three kinds of human personality types in this world:
1) individualistic human (3% of the world population)
2) manipulative human (3% of the world population)
3) mass human (94% of the world population)

#1 & #2 type of personalities are intelligent, creative and self-aware. They have chosen bit different paths paths. #3 type of personalities are less intelligent and less creative, weak-minded people controlled by #2 type of personalities. The percentages are only estimations though but are based on Gaussian distribution and history of human race and how humans have organized into societies. And this is the way it has always been ever since humans started to organize into communities.

Another way how to divide people is bit different but is based on the same facts, human nature and history. The division is based on the level of intelligence and quality of mentality:
1) intelligent (3% of the world population)
2) slightly retarded, so called “normal people” or “robots” (94% of the world population)
3) highly retarded, “vegetables” (3% of the world population)

Total War Against Humanity

Hate, Im so full of it and I love it. That is one thing I really love. Some time ago, I used to believe in humanity and I wanted to live a long and happy life... but then I woke up. I started to think deeper and realized things. But it was not easy to become existential... knowing as much as I know has made me unhappy, frustrated and angry. I just can’t be happy in the society or the reality I live. Due to long process of existential thinking, observing the society I live and some other things happened in my life... I have come to the point where I feel nothing but hate against humanity and human race.

Life is just a meaningless coincidence... result of long process of evolution and many several factors, causes and effects. However, life is also something that an individual wants and determines it to be. And I'm the dictator and god of my own life. And me, I have chosen my way. I am prepared to fight and die for my cause. I, as a natural selector, will eliminate all who I see unfit, disgraces of human race and failures of natural selection.

You might ask yourselves, why did I do this and what do I want. Well, most of you are too arrogant and closed-minded to understand... You will proprably say me that I am “insane”, “crazy”, “psychopath”, “criminal” or crap like that. No, the truth is that I am just an animl, a human, an individual, a dissident.

I have had enough. I don’t want to be part of this fucked up society. Like some other wise people have said in the past, human race is not worth fighting for or saving... only worth killing. But... When my enemies will run and hide in fear when mentioning my name... When the gangsters of the corrupted governments have been shot in the streets... When the rule of idioracy and the democratic system has been replaced with justice... When intelligent people are finally free and rule the society instead of the idiocratic rule of majority... In that great day of deliverance, you will know what I want.

Long live the revolution... revolution against the system, which enslaves not only the majority of weak-minded masses but also the small minority of strong-minded and intelligent individuals! If we want to live in a different world, we must act. We must rise against the enslaving, corrupted and totalitarian regimes and overthrow the tyrants, gangsters and the rule of idiocracy. I can’t alone change much but hopefully my actions will inspire all the intelligent people of the world and start some sort of revolution against the current systems. The system discriminating naturality and justice, is my enemy. The people living in the world of delusion and supporting this system are my enemies.

I am ready to die for a cause I know is right, just and true... even if I would lose or the battle would be only remembered as evil... I will rather fight and die than live a long and unhappy life.

And remember that this is my war, my ideas and my plans. Don’t blame anyone else for my actions than myself. Don’t blame my parents or my friends. I told nobody about my plans and I always kept them inside my mind only. Don’t blame the movies I see, the music I hear, the games I play or the books I read. No, they had nothing to do with this. This is my war: one man war against humanity, governments and weak-minded masses of the world! No mercy for the scum of the earth! HUMANITY IS OVERRATED! It's time to put NATURAL SELECTION & SURVIVAL OF THE FITTEST back on tracks!

Justice renders to everyone his due.

- Pekka-Eric Auvinen (aka NaturalSelector89, Natural Selector, Sturmgeist89 and Sturmgeist).
I also use pseydonym Eric von Auffoin internationally.

Why hasn't anyone pointed out yet that this case proves why all of the gun control measures championed by James R (mandatory licensing, storage requirements, club membership, no semi-autos) are not effective at preventing shooting rampages?

because they will be banned.

thousands of people die every day... i don't understand why it's such a big deal when someone kills 9...

I'm waiting for someone to blame W. :rolleyes:

I'm waiting for someone to blame W.

Yeah, I agree!

But oddly, I just read an article from Finland on my homepage that the Finnish boy might, "might"?, have been in contact with a boy in the USA who was arrested recently for plotting a massacre in his own school. No one is giving out any evidence or anything ....."...still early in the investigation."

So ya' see, ........just as we thought, ....it'll be turned around somehow to be President Bush's fault, or the fault of those dirty, corrupt, warmonger Americans! :D

Baron Max

this has obvious connection with the violent US imported games being played by innocent small children in Finland. No tight regulations and often sale of violence games to minors as a result of a very loose regulation of US game market on what is allowed in a game...lead to this. And this is a result of Bush's inability to regulate US game market...the same is a result of VT massacre.

this has obvious connection with the violent US imported games being played by innocent small children in Finland. No tight regulations and often sale of violence games to minors as a result of a very loose regulation of US game market on what is allowed in a game...lead to this. And this is a result of Bush's inability to regulate US game market...the same is a result of VT massacre.

So it's all America's and President Bush's fault?

Baron Max

So it's all America's and President Bush's fault?

Baron Max

? :bugeye: and you are questioning this ? why the "?" question mark at the end?

this has obvious connection with the violent US imported games being played by innocent small children in Finland. No tight regulations and often sale of violence games to minors as a result of a very loose regulation of US game market on what is allowed in a game...lead to this. And this is a result of Bush's inability to regulate US game market...the same is a result of VT massacre.
Give us the crime rates in Finland over the last several decades so we can draw a correlation between the two variables.

Each country has it's own rules and regulations for media so US content regulations have no effect on whats allowed in other countries.

As a counter to the claim that violent video games translates into youth violence in 2004 the best selling game in 2004 was Grand theft auto: San Andreas. That same year the US murder rate was at a 40 year low. Here is the FBI 2004 crime report as evidence. PDF file (http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius_04/documents/CIUS2004.pdf)

...no people here dont get my sarcasm at all...

I mean seriously 2 posts earlier priestess Sandy says, "I'm waiting for someone to blame W." and raises eyelashes as an emoticon. Why else would I write the gibberish?

...nope the world is flat it seems and made of cartoon boxes

...no people here dont get my sarcasm at all...

I mean seriously 2 posts earlier priestess Sandy says, "I'm waiting for someone to blame W." and raises eyelashes as an emoticon. Why else would I write the gibberish?

...nope the world is flat it seems and made of cartoon boxes
It's just more fun to take crazy posts seriously and force a debate out of it. ;)

...no people here dont get my sarcasm at all...

I mean seriously 2 posts earlier priestess Sandy says, "I'm waiting for someone to blame W." and raises eyelashes as an emoticon. Why else would I write the gibberish?

...nope the world is flat it seems and made of cartoon boxes

Priestess? I'm not even Catholic. :confused:

Priestess? I'm not even Catholic. :confused:

than pray woman...pray...the days have come.

than pray woman...pray...the days have come.

I do pray. Every day. Much of the day. Do you?

The Finnish police has made a clear statement now.

Another 16-year old Finnish boy made a comment on the internet that he would commit another massacre. The police came quickly and arrested him. Despite that apparently it was a joke.

I would take these "jokers" and personally jail them with accordance to the law of course