http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7260314.stm


Last Updated: Saturday, 23 February 2008, 10:21 GMT
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Saudi men arrested for 'flirting'
Young men in a shopping centre in Saudi Arabia (archive)
Relations between the sexes outside marriage is against the law
Prosecutors in Saudi Arabia have begun investigating 57 young men who were arrested on Thursday for flirting with girls at shopping centres in Mecca.

The men are accused of wearing indecent clothes, playing loud music and dancing in order to attract the attention of girls, the Saudi Gazette reported.

They were arrested following a request of the Commission for the Promotion of Virtue and Prevention of Vice.

The mutaween enforce Saudi Arabia's conservative brand of Islam, Wahhabism.

Earlier in the month, the authorities enforced a ban on the sale of red roses and other symbols used in many countries to mark Valentine's Day.

The ban is partly because of the connection with a "pagan Christian holiday", and also because the festival itself is seen as encouraging relations between the sexes outside marriage, punishable by law in the kingdom.

The Prosecution and Investigation Commission said it had received reports of such "bad" behaviour by 57 young men at a number of shopping centres in the holy city of Mecca, the Saudi Gazette said.

The guardians of some of the men defended their actions, however, saying they would regularly get together at the weekend to have fun without ever violating laws governing the segregation of the sexes, it added.


***********************


"The men are accused of wearing indecent clothes, playing loud music and dancing"


These are very disturbing & shocking crimes against humanity, whether or not they will face charges at the hague at a later date i dont know?

"Indecent clothes"

Yeah levi jeans & a long and a tshirt exposing there arms, shocking!!!

"Playing loud music"
One of the boys had a walkman, shocking!!!!!!

"dancing"
One of the boys was a bit dizzy from his 1st ciggarette & staggered a bit, the religous police quickly grabbed him accusing him of dancing shocking!!!!!!

Well there has got to be a official inquiry here by the saudi government, this type or lurid western behaviour can not be allowed to happen, these boys should be in mosques studying the koran.
Myself i am shocked & horrified this type lurid behaviour has happened in saudi, i have cancelled my annual pilgrimage trip to mecca.

Whats your views is the middle east becoming to westernised & how can we stop this happening?

"Earlier in the month, the authorities enforced a ban on the sale of red roses and other symbols used in many countries to mark Valentine's Day."

I agree a red rose can be a very dangerous weapon in the wrong hands, i am writing to my MP about new laws on red roses in the uk, licences & such.
Are red poppies for rememberance day still allowed in saudi still?

A teacher was fired from an Islamic school after he complained about books that referred to Christians as pigs.:(

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/topstories/2008/02/21/islam-pig-claim-89520-20326421/

A woman in Iran was arrested and then beaten because she was not wearing a pair of socks.:eek:

http://www.ncr-iran.org/content/view/4832/152

A bank in the Netherlands has been giving piggy banks to young children for years. Now the bank has stopped giving out the piggy banks because Jews and Muslims consider pigs to be unclean.

http://islamineurope.blogspot.com/2008/02/netherlands-bank-drops-piggy-bank.html

Pandering to muslims gets a country trashed. Then again, so does coddling them.:rolleyes:

http://www.kitsapsun.com/news/2008/feb/21/kathleen-parker-dont-underreact-to-radical-islam/

A woman in Iran was arrested and then beaten because she was not wearing a pair of socks.

Alright, goddamnit! That f@cking rips it! Bomb 'em! Bomb 'em!

Seriously, there's no solution that's going to fix the situation over the next twenty or even fifty years. This is going to take a while, and the first thing that has to happen is that we (the West) need to get the hell over ourselves. Complaining about governments does little good when the people under them see us as hostile, too. And, hell, it's not like we show the Muslim people much understanding.

On a further note i was arested for walking down the street naked

Ok i wasnt really (need to keep my record clean to get the job i want although i would if i could). You cant complaine about indecency laws when you have them in your OWN country. You cant complain about NOISE laws when you have them in your own country. And you really cant complain about laws that impinge upon adolecent freedom when shops are puting up buzzers to force adolecents to disperse in your own countries

You cannot change a religion by complaining about it, especially while giving arms to those who enforce these archaic laws the most.

You cannot change a religion by complaining about it, especially while giving arms to those who enforce these archaic laws the most.

You're right. But that doesn't negate the legitimacy of this discussion. If it's acceptable to have umpteen-million topics on how horrible the west is, it can't be all that bad to have a topic discussing the persistent repression done in Islamic countries.

~String

It's all about enforcing the Islamic way of life. You muslims should accept your fate!!!

A teacher was fired from an Islamic school after he complained about books that referred to Christians as pigs.:(

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/topstories/2008/02/21/islam-pig-claim-89520-20326421/



A bank in the Netherlands has been giving piggy banks to young children for years. Now the bank has stopped giving out the piggy banks because Jews and Muslims consider pigs to be unclean.

]
Being PC
"A teacher yesterday claimed he was sacked from an Islamic school after complaining about books in which Christians were called "pigs".

Colin Cook, 58, alleged five-year-olds were taught from the texts that Jews were "monkeys".

The head of King Fahad Academy denied the claims but shredded the 2,000 books. Mr Cook told the jobs tribunal yesterday that pupils at the school in Acton, West London, praised 9/11. "




From your link Sandy,

Yes these stories are shocking what makes it worse is that they are going on in uk schools here, not indonesia.
I believe the biggest crime is to corrupt childrens minds with your own hate, what ever path of hate a person chooses do it, but dont fuck up childrens minds.
Its shameful that in the uk because of our PC government we allowing this to happen, sure we all know its going on, & it really only comes to light with the public when a whistle blower either in the civil service or schools comes forward to the press, then my stupid PC government has to do something.

The piggy bank thing has been happening in the uk too, one day a couple of years ago, a uk woman had the police knocking on her door & they asked her to remove the ornamental pig from her window as it was offending her muslim neighbours.


Being PC with muslims is really not helping there religon at all, politicians are doing islam no favours, sooner or later it is exposed in the press, & it just makes everyone angry.

String if you though thats what i was doing i apologise, it was not my intent. I have been campaining for the abolision of ALL "decancy" laws and all restrictions on adolesant freedom. Both in the west and in the east

It's all about enforcing the Islamic way of life. You muslims should accept your fate!!!

Wahhabism is not Islam. It is a gross mutation that was created in the 18th century for political purposes. It's a backward, unIslamic, and racist movement.

because the western world is full of understanding people, who accept this actions in the name of religion, soon the entire western world will look like that.

because the western world is full of understanding people, who accept this actions in the name of religion, soon the entire western world will look like that.

Then boycott their oil! No use complaining about how a country is run when you're giving its rulers the money to sustain their power.

On a further note i was arested for walking down the street naked...

Pst px pls tnx. :D

Mr.spock. We dont exactly have the best record for getting religion out of the political system either. I was highly offended to learn that parliment opens everyday with a prayer and if you look at all the defence of marrage acts opressing homosexuality... well the seperation of church and state is a joke to be honest. Its just that the west is in general better able to hide its religious affiliations because thats how we grew up. Im not saying that people shouldnt be religious, if they chose to be they can. Political policy however should be evidenced rather than religiously based.

What benifit are ANY decency laws? whats wrong with the human gentalia? brests are cute:p and so are penii (sorry is that the plural for penus?)

Mr.spock. We dont exactly have the best record for getting religion out of the political system either. I was highly offended to learn that parliment opens everyday with a prayer and if you look at all the defence of marrage acts opressing homosexuality... well the seperation of church and state is a joke to be honest. Its just that the west is in general better able to hide its religious affiliations because thats how we grew up. Im not saying that people shouldnt be religious, if they chose to be they can. Political policy however should be evidenced rather than religiously based.

What benifit are ANY decency laws? whats wrong with the human gentalia? brests are cute:p and so are penii (sorry is that the plural for penus?)

the plural of penis is penes or penises

Thanks:)

Thanks:)

no problem

Wahhabism is not Islam. It is a gross mutation that was created in the 18th century for political purposes. It's a backward, unIslamic, and racist movement.
Someone should have told them a long time ago!. Why can't the rest of the so call un-wahhabi countries do something about it???

Someone should have told them a long time ago!. Why can't the rest of the so call un-wahhabi countries do something about it???

1) It's none of their business.

2) They have enough problems of their own.

3) Perhaps they don't have the power or influence to do anything about it.

4) They rely on KSA far too much to stand against her.

5) The list goes on.

because the western world is full of understanding people, who accept this actions in the name of religion, soon the entire western world will look like that.

I agree with you, i think in 10 or 20 years most western countries will have adopted islamic laws & restrictions, its mainly due to our PC governments, in order to accomodate muslims in our countries we are changing our laws, there are at least a dozen new laws relating to islam in the last 2 years, mainly oppressing our freedoms.

We have already had the bishop of cantebury causing a storm last month by saying the uk need to accept sharia law in the uk, i have no doubt one day we will.

I agree with you, i think in 10 or 20 years most western countries will have adopted islamic laws & restrictions, its mainly due to our PC governments, in order to accomodate muslims in our countries we are changing our laws, there are at least a dozen new laws relating to islam in the last 2 years, mainly oppressing our freedoms.

and don't forget what that priest said about the sharia. its what you call a silent takeover.

edit: you didn't-my bad :D

Mr spock, whats the difference between a sharia style legal system and a jedo christan legal system?

If we are going to talk about england especially then rebmer that there head of state is also there head of church

Mr spock, whats the difference between a sharia style legal system and a jedo christan legal system?

If we are going to talk about england especially then rebmer that there head of state is also there head of church

the difference is they dont hang people for being gay, or for not believing in Christianity. you honestly compare england with Saudi Arabia?

no, in that you are right. The death penelty has been outlawed in the UK and although bigotry exists and texis still has laws against homosexuality they dont carry the DP.

However there are still alot of really stupid religious based laws that hurt ALOT of people and even do get some of them killed as a side issue in westen sociaty

and don't forget what that priest said about the sharia. its what you call a silent takeover.

edit: you didn't-my bad :D
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/7232661.stm

Last Updated: Thursday, 7 February 2008, 16:55 GMT
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Sharia law in UK is 'unavoidable'

Dr Rowan Williams
Dr Williams says Muslims should have a choice in legal disputes

Dr Williams interview
The Archbishop of Canterbury says the adoption of certain aspects of Sharia law in the UK "seems unavoidable".

Dr Rowan Williams told Radio 4's World at One that the UK has to "face up to the fact" that some of its citizens do not relate to the British legal system.

Dr Williams argues that adopting parts of Islamic Sharia law would help maintain social cohesion.

For example, Muslims could choose to have marital disputes or financial matters dealt with in a Sharia court.

**************
This archbishop in cantebury is the no 1 catholic bishop in the uk, can you imagine marital dispute being settled by sharia law?
In the middle east & pakistan this can be quite barbaric, if the woman is accused of adultery she can take quite a beating or be jailed, is this what the archbishop wants for muslim women in the uk.

But spock i agree with you this is the silent takeover, who better to pave the way than to get the catholic churches blessing.

Live long & prosper spock, i hear you have 2 roles in the new star trek movie, the young & old spock, but fatman kirk has been dropped, he has swapped his phaser for a kfc bucket these days.

vincent please get your facts straight before you post. It looks idiotic when you post mestakes like that the arch bishop of cantebury is catholic. Hes not he is the head of the ANGLICAN church

I agree with you, i think in 10 or 20 years most western countries will have adopted islamic laws & restrictions, its mainly due to our PC governments, in order to accomodate muslims in our countries we are changing our laws, there are at least a dozen new laws relating to islam in the last 2 years, mainly oppressing our freedoms.

I think it will be based by sheer breeding and numbers.

Whats your views is the middle east becoming to westernised & how can we stop this happening?

Clearly they need more exposure to western values. Perhaps a few thousand bombing raids, a few million cluster bombs, a million dead in collateral damages, some caricatures of the Prophet, a few Qurans flushed down the toilet, some secret prisons with torture and unlimited detentions without charge and they can learn what it really means to be secular and tolerant.

From my perspective the ME is locked up tighter than a clam.

Clearly they need more exposure to western values. Perhaps a few thousand bombing raids, a few million cluster bombs, a million dead in collateral damages, some caricatures of the Prophet, a few Qurans flushed down the toilet, some secret prisons with torture and unlimited detentions without charge and they can learn what it really means to be secular and tolerant.

or violently riot over the caricatures of the prophet.

There were riots in Saudi Arabia? I must have missed those

There were riots in Saudi Arabia? I must have missed those

i dont know particularly about saudi arabia in this matter but:

DUBAI, United Arab Emirates, Jan. 30 — A long-running controversy over the publication of caricatures of the Muslim prophet Muhammad by a Danish newspaper boiled over in the past few days as a boycott brought sales of some Danish products to a halt in Arab countries across the Middle East, while Danish interests came under attack.

A diverse group of Muslim activists has stirred a consumer uproar in one of Denmark's fastest-growing packaged-foods markets in a case pitting freedom of the press against religious sensitivity, and which is playing out in the arenas of diplomacy and global trade.

In recent days, Saudi Arabia and Libya have recalled their ambassadors to Denmark, protests have been staged in places like Dubai, where they are virtually unheard of, and Arab and multinational companies have placed ads in Middle Eastern newspapers to deny any connection to Danish companies.

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/01/31/international/middleeast/31danish.html

So there were no riots in Saudi Arabia?

vincent please get your facts straight before you post. It looks idiotic when you post mestakes like that the arch bishop of cantebury is catholic. Hes not he is the head of the ANGLICAN church

Yes you are right my apologies to catholics here, but these guys with frocks & pretty hats on begin to all look the same after a while.



****************

Archbishop Rowan Williams of Canterbury, leader of the Church of England and spiritual head of the worldwide Anglican Communion, will visit Rome Nov. 21-26.

He is scheduled to meet privately with Pope Benedict

********************************


But your correction makes matters worse him being the leader of the church of england, the Queens religon, means he has the Queens ear to whisper into.
But i was correct in saying he is the most important religous person in the uk, in rank that is, although i am not sure if the Queen is actually the head of the church of england.

Without a doubt he is a troublemaker who should be sent to the tower of london, he reminds me of the popes And priests of the spanish inqusition era.

So there were no riots in Saudi Arabia?

http://www.dowbuzz.com/2007/12/18/hungry-riots-in-saudi-arabia-20071218

http://www.mail-archive.com/kominform@lists.eunet.fi/msg11322.html


and thats only suadi arabia. i was talking about the ME in general. we all know how understanding they are about criticism over their religion.

So there were no riots in Saudi Arabia?

No, & by all account no red roses either they have been banned, what next daffodils or daisies?
Is this the beginning of the end of the red rose, will the uk adopt saudi laws on red roses to be PC with our fellow muslims in the uk?

No, & by all account no red roses either they have been banned, what next daffodils or daisies?
Is this the beginning of the end of the red rose, will the uk adopt saudi laws on red roses to be PC with our fellow muslims in the uk?

ho, it doesnt matter.

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/41283000/jpg/_41283764_gaghdad416rtr.jpg

In the Iraqi capital, Baghdad, Shia clerics burned the Danish flag.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z1SyumY9B6A

So???

I have seen heeps of protests in Australia burning the US or Australian flags. Its not a crime unless it happens to be a total fire ban day:)

http://www.dowbuzz.com/2007/12/18/hungry-riots-in-saudi-arabia-20071218

http://www.mail-archive.com/kominform@lists.eunet.fi/msg11322.html


and thats only suadi arabia. i was talking about the ME in general. we all know how understanding they are about criticism over their religion.

I think you know most oil countries in the gulf are ruled with a iron fist, security forces crack down hard on demo's against the government, demo's about the west are ok that helps to unify the country, any dissent against the royals & they dissapear iinto there jails.

The middle east is like a big volcano it will erupt one day & warlords will replace the royals in gulf oil states & there will be palestine & afghanistan like countries being born all over the gulf.

http://www.dowbuzz.com/2007/12/18/hungry-riots-in-saudi-arabia-20071218

http://www.mail-archive.com/kominform@lists.eunet.fi/msg11322.html


and thats only suadi arabia. i was talking about the ME in general. we all know how understanding they are about criticism over their religion.

I don't see any religious riots there, in fact those are riots against the establishment.

So???

I have seen heeps of protests in Australia burning the US or Australian flags. Its not a crime unless it happens to be a total fire ban day:)

Australian burn their own flag? you sure they are not immigrants or natives?

I don't see any religious riots there, in fact those are riots against the establishment.

then learn to read:

The fundamentalists destroyed property and even voiced calls against the regime for what they asserted was its refusal to abide by Islamic principles.



ive even cited it so you would understand. :o

Of course we do. Its called protesting, the flag is the symbol of the goverment and if the goverment pisses you off then burning the flag is one way to get your message herd (or at least keep warm while trying to get your message herd)

As long as its not a total fire ban day then its a legal activity:)

ho, it doesnt matter.

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/41283000/jpg/_41283764_gaghdad416rtr.jpg

In the Iraqi capital, Baghdad, Shia clerics burned the Danish flag.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z1SyumY9B6A


Iraq whats that like 2000 miles away from denmark?
Word travels fast, i thougt electricity & TV's were in short supply, or is it the clerics & imans sharing the joyous news from denmark at daily mosque meetings.

Well if nothing else there learning the different flags of western countries to burn each week, i suppose its some form of education.

Of course we do. Its called protesting, the flag is the symbol of the goverment and if the goverment pisses you off then burning the flag is one way to get your message herd (or at least keep warm while trying to get your message herd)

As long as its not a total fire ban day then its a legal activity:)

do you burn the flag over caricatures, or freedom of expression?

Of course we do. Its called protesting, the flag is the symbol of the goverment and if the goverment pisses you off then burning the flag is one way to get your message herd (or at least keep warm while trying to get your message herd)

As long as its not a total fire ban day then its a legal activity:)

I disagree the flag is not a symbol of the government unless that government was forced upon you & they made the flag.

I look at the uk flag i see my country not governments.

I am sure when most australians see there flag, they see there country 1st, they associate it with cricket wins, rugby wins, they dont associate with the john howards or your new chinese prime minister who speaks fluent mandarin ping pong rudd.

Politicans are hasbeen liars, there the last thing i think off when i look at the flag, one exception would be Winston Churchil he is the flag along with the Queen.

the last time i think was in protest against the war in iraq

But there could have been more protests since that did it. The aborigionals probably did it on a daily basis while howard was still miss managing the country

oh and your wrong there. Most Australians associate the boxing kangroo with our sporting hero's:p not the Australian flag

Of course we do. Its called protesting, the flag is the symbol of the goverment and if the goverment pisses you off then burning the flag is one way to get your message herd (or at least keep warm while trying to get your message herd)

As long as its not a total fire ban day then its a legal activity:)


Now i understand the aborigness burning your flag, your flag was forced upon them, but australians who are not aboriginees have no reason unless they hate there country, if thats the case they should leave for say china or russia or burma where they are free to express themselves more freely.

The flag represents the country not politicians, if you are ashamed of your government for say there actions in vietnam or iraq then burn effigies of howard, or have demo's against your government, but to burn your own flag is to ridicule what your yound soldiers died for in world war 2 or all the achievements of your sporting hero's who carried the flag proudly over there heads in there hour of glory.

the last time i think was in protest against the war in iraq

But there could have been more protests since that did it. The aborigionals probably did it on a daily basis while howard was still miss managing the country

burning your own flag because of your government is one thing. burning it when its another country, over caricatures, as a hate action, is something else.

Wow. The Saudis are almost as bad as most of Europe and the United States and their ridiculous thought crimes.

then learn to read:



ive even cited it so you would understand. :o

So they protested against their regime. Its a self declared Islamic country. Would it be wrong for people to riot against anti-democratic actions in a self declared democratic country?

Are you saying you agree with the Islam practised by the king of Saudi Arabia?

So they protested against their regime. Its a self declared Islamic country. Would it be wrong for people to riot against anti-democratic actions in a self declared democratic country?

Are you saying you agree with the Islam practised by the king of Saudi Arabia?

i think you should do yourself a favor and not reply, because they rioted against their government for not being Islamic enough!

Wow. The Saudis are almost as bad as most of Europe and the United States and their ridiculous thought crimes.

what are you talking about?

I think you missed that we burned the US flag too:p

And we had some other cool props like a coffin i think

Oh and we had Peter Garrot before he became a sell out:(

Why would you worry about BURNING a flag when there are flag bikinies, flag thongs (no not the g-string kind but i surpose there are those two), flag beach towls

You can buy an Australian flag ANYTHING
The only problem with flag burning is it can set OTHER things on fire

Personally i like the Erueka stokade flag, i would love to replace the union jack with either the aborigional flag or that one:)

the last time i think was in protest against the war in iraq

But there could have been more protests since that did it. The aborigionals probably did it on a daily basis while howard was still miss managing the country

But it was not your flag that went to war in iraq or vietnam it was your lapdog PM's trying to kiss up with american prez's like blair did.

The aboriginess have every right to burn the flag, as do american indians in america, but like i said there are many who have died defending your country, anyone who hates there country that much should really emigrate.

If i see anyone burning the uk flag in the uk that would be inciting me to violence to the extreme, i know how many soldiers died in world war 2 defending my country & the uk flag is the symbol of my country.

I think you missed that we burned the US flag too:p

And we had some other cool props like a coffin i think

Oh and we had Peter Garrot before he became a sell out:(

Why would you worry about BURNING a flag when there are flag bikinies, flag thongs (no not the g-string kind but i surpose there are those two), flag beach towls

You can buy an Australian flag ANYTHING
The only problem with flag burning is it can set OTHER things on fire

Personally i like the Erueka stokade flag, i would love to replace the union jack with either the aborigional flag or that one:)

i doubt those who burned the danish flag, look at it this way.


what evidence will it take for you to understand it is done out of hate, and if they could, they would burn people instead? like they burned two Americans and dragged their bodies in the streets.

Hmm so why did they start doing business with the Danes again?

I think you missed that we burned the US flag too:p

And we had some other cool props like a coffin i think

Oh and we had Peter Garrot before he became a sell out:(

Why would you worry about BURNING a flag when there are flag bikinies, flag thongs (no not the g-string kind but i surpose there are those two), flag beach towls

You can buy an Australian flag ANYTHING
The only problem with flag burning is it can set OTHER things on fire

Personally i like the Erueka stokade flag, i would love to replace the union jack with either the aborigional flag or that one:)

Hey you are free to burn other countries flags, but some would take that as incitement, as it is the ultimate insult, as for bikini flags or on clothes that means nothing its fashion, the last thing i would ever consider doing is burning a flag of the country that i am living in, that is just plain suicidal, that flag represents the symbol of the entire country.

Vincent if my grandfather herd that atitude (and yes he died as a RESULT of WW2) he would laugh his head off

Firstly because he couldnt even FIGHT under the Australian flag, they were put under the british flag

Secondly because its a form of fredom of expression which is EXACTLY what he was fighting FOR

Its the same when the RSL gets up and says we shouldnt abolish the queen because people faught for her. My grandfather was a stouch republican

you know i saw flag toilet paper:p

Hmm so why did they start doing business with the Danes again?

sometimes money is stronger then god, or hes prophet.

i doubt those who burned the danish flag, look at it this way.


what evidence will it take for you to understand it is done out of hate, and if they could, they would burn people instead? like they burned two Americans and dragged their bodies in the streets.

Yes that is logical spock, when there all in one of there frenzies at these demo's in the middle east, i am sure if they had free access to a danish embassy employee or a danish tourist, it would be the dane citizen burning like danish bacon instead of the flag, that would be plain logic.

what are you talking about?

Ridiculous non-crimes Orwellianly labeld hate crimes. We have another about to enter the books as soon as the senate get around to passing it.

Ridiculous non-crimes Orwellianlly labeld hate crimes. We have another about to enter the books as soon as the senate get around to passing it.

Please be more specific. What legislation are you talking about?

Vincent if my grandfather herd that atitude (and yes he died as a RESULT of WW2) he would laugh his head off

Firstly because he couldnt even FIGHT under the Australian flag, they were put under the british flag

Secondly because its a form of fredom of expression which is EXACTLY what he was fighting FOR

Its the same when the RSL gets up and says we shouldnt abolish the queen because people faught for her. My grandfather was a stouch republican

Yes i have heard talk of australians having a new flag & so you should one that you are proud of, like i said any flag forced upon the masses by in this case a past colonial master has to go, thats why i said aboriginess have every right to burn the oz flag, and if the majority of australians want a new flag then good for them so they should its a bit stupid of oz & nz to be having a flag that has a tiny uk flag on it anyway, most brits would tell you that.

Any relationship to the uk has been severed along time ago, & why the government keeps forcing the Queen to go to Oz in some stupid ceromonial role is pathetic, she spends half her time being insulted by the press there, they cant even play the uk anthem in her presence to the full length, how insulting can you get, i cant think of a single country that would not honour a visiting head of state without playing that country's anthem to the fullest, yet oz did that last year, or the year before to the Queen even russia would not do that.

thats alright i have never herd the AUSTRALIAN antham all the way through so dont worry.

There is another idiotic symbol that needs a face lift and i know EXACTLY which song it should be

"We are one"

You have to rember however that we dont share the beating hearts "patritium" that is evidenced in other countries (ie the US) a flag burning bill would get laughed out of the house. The paliment has more important things to do than regulate the way we protest.

I was actually talking to my mother about the same topic (i dislike symbols where as she thinks they have a purpose). Now she wants to abolish the comertial use of the flag so that it becomes more of a symbol. Why? So people KNOW why they burn it:D

Please be more specific. What legislation are you talking about?

I was specific enough to prove my point, I believe.

Saudia Arabia 57 arrested in flirting raids at shopping centre
Yes, that's funny and not appropriate within western cultures, but that's right and just according to their laws and their way of life, so let them have it.

Don't teach others how to live unless you want someone to introduce sharia laws in your own country.

Yes, that's funny and not appropriate within western cultures, but that's right and just according to their laws and their way of life, so let them have it.

Don't teach others how to live unless you want someone to introduce sharia laws in your own country.

so if the majority in your country became muslim and impose sharia on the non muslims its fine by you?

what about those in SA who dont want to live according to sharia?

so if the majority in your country became muslim and impose sharia on the non muslims its fine by you?
If the laws are introduced by a democratically elected parlament then it's fine,
I'd either learn to live with it or move to another country.

what about those in SA who dont want to live according to sharia?
Make their own political party and persuade others,
or go to live elsewhere.

If the laws are introduced by a democratically elected parlament then it's fine,
I'd either learn to live with it or move to another country.


Make their own political party and persuade others,
or go to live elsewhere.

and if dont have any where to go, or the ability? thats it, you are doomed for believing in something else?

Mr spock there are lots of laws i dont agree with. Indecency laws to start with, does that mean i shouldnt have to follow them?

Mr spock there are lots of laws i dont agree with. Indecency laws to start with, does that mean i shouldnt have to follow them?

sharia law is a religious law. if you do not believe in Islam, you have no choice but to follow it anyway. im sure there are a lot of laws you dont agree with, but we are talking about a law as a system of belief, not of society. im sure you can see the difference.

actually there isnt any difference. Its just which religion they come from. I REALLY dont like the acts that discriminate against homosexuality but they are the law. I DONT like the laws against ethanasia either but again its the law

Where did these laws come from?
Christanity not evidence based policy

actually there isnt any difference. Its just which religion they come from. I REALLY dont like the acts that discriminate against homosexuality but they are the law. I DONT like the laws against ethanasia either but again its the law

Where did these laws come from?
Christanity not evidence based policy

can non christians express their belief? can you express your disapproval of such laws? can you vote for a candidate who oppose them? because under sharia theyll hang before you can do any of those.

will it make any difference?

Even the left wing canditates surport the defence of marrage act why? because the church groups have gotten to them. We MAY get tax, superanuation, social security and family law fixed with the new goverment but i doubt we will see a gay marrage in my lifetime if ever

Brutal, dictatorial regime supported by the US in idiot action shocker!!!

If i see anyone burning the uk flag in the uk that would be inciting me to violence to the extreme, i know how many soldiers died in world war 2 defending my country & the uk flag is the symbol of my country.

So it's ok for you to resort to violence over a piece of burning cloth, but if Muslims react with violence over a movie, cartoon or whatever else that insults their religion, it's bad?

Right..

Gotcha..

:rolleyes:

This archbishop in cantebury is the no 1 catholic bishop in the uk, can you imagine marital dispute being settled by sharia law?
In the middle east & pakistan this can be quite barbaric, if the woman is accused of adultery she can take quite a beating or be jailed, is this what the archbishop wants for muslim women in the uk.
Church of England, not Catholic. And here I thought you were British and knew everything about your own country.

Australian burn their own flag? you sure they are not immigrants or natives?
What in the hell kind of question is that?

The only true natives of Australia are the Aborigines. The rest of us are all immigrants here.

I'll put it to you this way. If people burn the Australian flag, no one really cares. We don't care who is doing the burning and we don't care if they burn it. It is a piece of cloth. Half the time it takes an absolute age to burn because of the material used to make it rarely burns easily. So it just simmers really.

do you burn the flag over caricatures, or freedom of expression?
How can I answer this. Several years ago, during the Gay Mardi Gras, one of the floats was of a giant caricature puppet of George Bush bending over dropping his pants and an equally giant puppet of John Howard (our then Prime Minister) bending over and kissing Bush's backside. I can assure you, very few were offended. I think a few in the Christian right were, but that was because of the parade itself and what it stood for. Everyone else thought it was hilarious, even many of the politicians themselves (even those in the Liberal Party). And no one, not a single person, burned a flag over it, or set fire to anything else because of it.:)

So it's ok for you to resort to violence over a piece of burning cloth, but if Muslims react with violence over a movie, cartoon or whatever else that insults their religion, it's bad?

Right..

Gotcha..

:rolleyes:


Church of England, not Catholic. And here I thought you were British and knew everything about your own country.


What in the hell kind of question is that?

The only true natives of Australia are the Aborigines. The rest of us are all immigrants here.

I'll put it to you this way. If people burn the Australian flag, no one really cares. We don't care who is doing the burning and we don't care if they burn it. It is a piece of cloth. Half the time it takes an absolute age to burn because of the material used to make it rarely burns easily. So it just simmers really.


How can I answer this. Several years ago, during the Gay Mardi Gras, one of the floats was of a giant caricature puppet of George Bush bending over dropping his pants and an equally giant puppet of John Howard (our then Prime Minister) bending over and kissing Bush's backside. I can assure you, very few were offended. I think a few in the Christian right were, but that was because of the parade itself and what it stood for. Everyone else thought it was hilarious, even many of the politicians themselves (even those in the Liberal Party). And no one, not a single person, burned a flag over it, or set fire to anything else because of it.:)

Once again your missing the point if muslims want to make movies of burning uk flags go right ahead, cartoons the same, i can refuse to see a movie, i can refuse to buy a newspaper, do you see i am given freedom of choice, however i am not given freeedom of choice when some demo fanatics are burning the flag on my streets, that is forcing there insults in my face.

Nobody likes any political or religous statement being on the streets i dont, be they drunken catholics or just people who want to make a fool of themselves, this is in your face political statements & it can provoke people, flag burning is worst incitement of anykind & thats why muslims do it.


As for the australian flag, yes asgaurd says you have no respect for it, it was forced upon you, well in the uk (not scots, not there flag) we have great respect for our flag, as do americans theres, the flag of most countries represents unity of that country a symbol of the entire country coming together during celebration or grief.

The flag is not a religous belief, religon is not real, not proven, it is a belief only,
the flag represents democracy & the wars won to defend that democracy as well as the people who died, THAT IS A HUGE SYMBOL, you comparison with a religon which is just a mere belief is ridiculous.

Maybe australians will have there own flag of your own choice one day, & you will understand of the importance of it in nearly all countries.

As a lawyer you understand the law, there are flag burning laws being done in america & from what i gather it will be done in the uk with in a year or 2, so what you think the law is a ass?

vincent28uk you compleatly missed my point. It has nothing to do with what the flag is and everything to do with what WE are. We are a sociaty that LOVES protests, in every form. Burning the flag (as long as you can find one that WILL burn as bells said) is a great form of protest and so will always be alowed here. Its only ultra concertives like the head of the RSL and tony abott who dont seem to understand the way our sociaty works even though they should know better than anyone (one being an ex solder and the other a polition)

Symbols are meaningless its PEOPLE who matter. Flags and beating hearts patrotisum will (at least this is what i hope) never take hold here. Hell most people couldnt even tell you our countries national colours. Infact even the citizanship test got the answer to THAT question wrong:p

We are big on what a person DOES, not what a symbol IS that is important.

Look at the symbols of Australia:

The national colours are royal blue and gold and everyone thinks its GREEN and gold

The national antham is a joke, the last verses are so racist they can never be played and no one knows what the hell GIRT actually means (it SHOULD be "we are one")

The majority of people want the GG replaced with an Australian President but the referndum couldnt pass because of the way the monicists worded it

We EAT our national animals (the kangroo and the emu)

The national floral emblim is almost a weed (the golden wattle)

The flag is still stuck to brittan and half the people think the boxing kangroo is our flag


So we have grown up with a much more practical kind of patrioustium which i hope will never leave us

You cannot change a religion by complaining about it, especially while giving arms to those who enforce these archaic laws the most.

One minor correction,: Selling arms!

Of course we do. Its called protesting, the flag is the symbol of the goverment and if the goverment pisses you off then burning the flag is one way to get your message herd (or at least keep warm while trying to get your message herd)
The herd keeping themselves warm while sending their message would probably be more accurate.

what evidence will it take for you to understand it is done out of hate, and if they could, they would burn people instead? like they burned two Americans and dragged their bodies in the streets.
It would be difficult to make most Australians understand the kind of hate fostered by fanatically religious peoples.

Unless you beat us at cricket. Then we'll hate you vehemently until the day you retire, at which point, if you were especially good at it and caused us a lot of trouble, we'll remeber you with affection and erect a statue in your honour.

Yes, that's funny and not appropriate within western cultures, but that's right and just according to their laws and their way of life, so let them have it.

Don't teach others how to live unless you want someone to introduce sharia laws in your own country.
Not being allowed to display a ceramic pig in your window because it offends your muslim neighbours is such a very small thing.
Isn't it.

Worthy of humorous ridicule, or dismissed as the rantings of a paranoid.

That story about the pig, if true, is far more significant in terms of the decline of western power than 9/11 will ever be.
“And many strokes, though with a small axe, hew down the mightiest tree.”

If the laws are introduced by a democratically elected parlament then it's fine,
I'd either learn to live with it or move to another country.
Make their own political party and persuade others,
or go to live elsewhere.
So innocent, you are.

The national antham is a joke, the last verses are so racist they can never be played and no one knows what the hell GIRT actually means (it SHOULD be "we are one")
Judging by your spelling ability, I would say that you not knowing what "girt" means is no great surprise. Apparently English is not your strong point - therefore I would not, if I were you, use your lack of knowledge of it to make one.

Having said that, the anthem is indeed ridiculous. Aren't they all?

The majority of people want the GG replaced with an Australian President but the referndum couldnt pass because of the way the monicists worded it
No, the referendum didn't pass because the models presented as alternatives to a constitutional monarchy were largely unacceptable to those who knew what was going on, and incomprehensible to those who didn't.
The mistake made was to present the choice to the public in a referendum, in which voting is mandatory. Never underestimate the voting power of stupid people, or how apathetic most are.
In addition, a referendum in Australia is only carried when it gains what is termed a double majority - which means that not only does it need to gain an outright majority of votes, but also that a majority of states must pass it (I.e. at least four of six states must have a majority yes vote). If three states, for example, pass the referendum with a 75% yes vote and three fail it with a 45% yes vote, then the referendum will fail - even though the total yes vote is a significant majority.
Passing a referendum in Australia is exceedingly difficult - a fact that Howard and his government probably knew quite well.

So we have grown up with a much more practical kind of patrioustium which i hope will never leave us
Yes, you love Australia, and will cry it to the heavens... in secret, so that you don't offend your muslim neighbours.

*edit - missed something.
Its only ultra concertives like the head of the RSL and tony abott who dont seem to understand the way our sociaty works even though they should know better than anyone (one being an ex solder and the other a polition)
Ex-solder, for those not in the know, is that solder which has been there so long you can't get it to melt with a soldering iron anymore. A wonderful description of the head of the Returned Serviceman's league. I also totally agree with Asguard that politicians are largely indistinguishable from pollution - perhaps that is why his spelling of it falls roughly in the middle.

Kangaroos don't make bad eating... a little rich for my taste. Anyone who has seen the result of a collision between an emu and a car, though, would probably think twice before attempting to eat one.

I've come to the conclusion that if the non-Australian members depictions of their own countries are as accurate as Asguard's are of Australia, then I have no more knowledge of them than I did before I came back here.
It is fun, though.

i never said I didnt know what "girt" means, i SAID the majority of the country dont

and you dont need to tell me how the referendum system works EITHER, i have actually studied the constitution

As for this one passing your right it was a difficault prosses but i have to wonder if the question was just "do you want australia to become a republic" it would have passed easerly. Howard manipulated the wording so it COULDNT pass

By the by i do actually like the idea of a president elected from parliment, after all its ONLY a cerimonial post anyway so why the popular election?

Apart from whittlam (that situation will never happen again by agreement of ALL the political parties) name one time the GG has actually DONE something

They were arrested following a request of the Commission for the Promotion of Virtue and Prevention of Vice.and they wonder why so many Arabs are homosexuals.

Here's someting interesting I read the other day. Next to Thailand, Iran has the highest number of sex change operations. A side effect of Islamic IranianTheocracy.

Who exactly is counting sex change operations in Iran? And how?

That was in Time or Newsweek, they were pointing out that in the Islamic Republic a man can legally only be with a woman and a woman with a man - so, if a man is born gay then he can choose to become a woman - and then be able to be legally with a man. So, they interviewed a gay man who was very very unhappy to have his penis cut off/inverted into a vagina but that was the sacrifice he had to make if he wanted to legally be with his gay husband. Sadly, he was a gay man wanting to remain a man but transsexual was his only option.

Gives new meaning to A Brave New World.

But if I remember correctly a few guys on this board were insistent that society remain "conservative". Tell that to the many Muslim gay men missing their penises - oh wait, they're now good little covered Muslim women now so it's all good.

That was in Time or Newsweek, they were pointing out that in the Islamic Republic a man can legally only be with a woman and a woman with a man - so, if a man is born gay then he can choose to become a woman - and then be able to be legally with a man. So, they interviewed a gay man who was very very unhappy to have his penis cut off/inverted into a vagina but that was the sacrifice he had to make if he wanted to legally be with his gay husband. Sadly, he was a gay man wanting to remain a man but transsexual was his only option.

Gives new meaning to A Brave New World.

But if I remember correctly a few guys on this board were insistent that society remain "conservative". Tell that to the many Muslim gay men missing their penises - oh wait, they're now good little covered Muslim women now so it's all good.

I would really like a source to confirm this.

Just to be clear, this is what I have read.

In a country that has outlawed homosexuality, Frances Harrison meets one Iranian cleric who says the right to a sex change is a human right. (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/newsnight/4115535.stm)

edit: Okay I found it. So its a choice available to gay men.


Homosexual relationships are banned in Iran, but the country allows sex change operations and hundreds of men have elected for surgery to change their lives. (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7259057.stm)

So why don't they move? After all, there are other places in the world. I would move if I could not do what I wanted. I find it odd that they would opt for a sex change. Has this happened anywhere else before?

Sad, though, news like this makes me really mad. :mad:

That was in Time or Newsweek, they were pointing out that in the Islamic Republic a man can legally only be with a woman and a woman with a man - so, if a man is born gay then he can choose to become a woman - and then be able to be legally with a man. So, they interviewed a gay man who was very very unhappy to have his penis cut off/inverted into a vagina but that was the sacrifice he had to make if he wanted to legally be with his gay husband. Sadly, he was a gay man wanting to remain a man but transsexual was his only option.

Gives new meaning to A Brave New World.

But if I remember correctly a few guys on this board were insistent that society remain "conservative". Tell that to the many Muslim gay men missing their penises - oh wait, they're now good little covered Muslim women now so it's all good.

OR...

He could have kept his genitals intact and chosen a healthy heterosexual lifestyle.

Kadark, he was born gay. If someone told you, hey Kadark we found these verses in this 1400 year old book and guess what - how about a healthy homosexual penis in your butt :p you think it's going to start sounding good to you anytime in the future? maybe not.

people are born with both genitals, people are born missing chromosomes, missing male hormone or female hormone growth receptors and etc... it's quite plain now that some people are born gay. forcing them to have their penis cut off (or forcing them from the country) is pretty sick. if they want to have a gay relationship - well, it's their life let them do whatever they want - right?

People aren't "born" gay any more than they're "born" heterosexual. It's just what people accustom themselves to. In the case of this Iranian, I'd look him straight in his face and tell him, "too bad!" Actually, I wouldn't even give him the right to a sex change.

if they want to have a gay relationship - well, it's their life let them do whatever they want - right?

Nope. That argument applies to many things, homosexuality being just one of them. You give them an inch, and they'll take a mile.

Tell me this Kadark, are people born with both genitals? Are people born missing some proteins that determine their sex?

You seriously think that a person born with more X chromosomes (female chromosomes) than normal women (one more than a normal woman) but have a male appearance are going to have a "normal" sexual identity? Please. That's idiotic. It's like saying a person born color blind has a choice to see color. They don't - it's genetically impossible. Sexuality is exactly the same. You didn't choose to be heterosexual did you? Or did you just automatically become heterosexual? Well it's obviously the same for gay people.

and what do you mean you wouldn't give them the choice?!?!? It's their life isn't' it?!?!?

Anyway, just another sad example of mixing fairy floss with politics.

Michael

That is a lesson to all. Dont flurt in Sudi Arabia or you are asking for trouble.