The religious police have arrested a woman for the crime of having a cup of coffee with a male colleage at a Starbucks! While being held, she was strip searched. Seems ironic that the religious police would consider drinking coffee in a public place indecent, but would then forcibly strip search the woman.
The National Society for Human Rights (NSHR), Saudi Arabia’s non-governmental rights body, will address the Governorate of Riyadh regarding Yara, a 36-year-old Jeddah-based businesswoman who was apprehended by the religious police and thrown in Al-Malaz Prison on Monday.

Yara said she endured a humiliating and frightening hours-long ordeal that began with her arrest by a member of the Commission for the Promotion of Virtue and the Prevention of Vice for having coffee with an unrelated man in a Starbucks cafe in Riyadh.

“We have visited Yara at home and took her official complaint,” NSHR member Al-Jawhara Al-Angari told Arab News yesterday. “The complaint will be sent to the main office in Riyadh where further notices from our part will be added. It will then be sent to the Governorate of Riyadh.”

Yara says she was forced to fingerprint two confessions and was strip-searched in the prison. She also said she was produced before a “legal sheikh” who sat behind a one-way glass window and told her she would go to hell for the moral crimes she had committed.

The incident occurred on the same day that Yakin Ertürk, the special rapporteur of the United Nations Human Rights Council on Violence Against Women, arrived in the Kingdom on a 10-day visit.

A member of the religious police apprehended Yara for the moral crime of “khulwa” (a state of seclusion with an unrelated man). The woman’s colleague, a Syrian financial analyst, was also arrested and released the following day.

According to Al-Angari, several serious violations of human rights were apparent in this case. “First of all, Yara was not in a state of khulwa,” said Al-Angari. “She was in a public place where people were all around them,” said Al-Angari.

Yara told the NSHR that the commission member who arrested her was not accompanied by a police officer and that he didn’t provide any documentation, or even his name. He also prevented her from contacting relatives.

“She had relatives in Riyadh at the time whom she could have contacted,” said Al-Angari. “A relative should have come to be with her when she was being taken somewhere.”

After the commission member forced Yara to go with him in a taxi, she said that she was placed in a GMC parked in front of a local commission center.

This, said Al-Angari, is a direct violation of an Interior Ministry order that commission members are not to hold suspects but rather turn them over to proper authorities for investigation.

“The confiscation of her mobile and the refusal of the commission member to allow her to contact her husband or any other relative to come to her rescue was another violation,” Al-Angari said.

Another human rights violation was forcing Yara to fingerprint a confession under duress.

Having grown up in the US, Yara’s Arabic language skills are insufficient to have been able to comprehend what was written on the document she was compelled to sign.

“She cannot read Arabic,” Al-Angari said. “The commission member should have read to her what she was going to fingerprint. She had no idea what she was fingerprinting. She obliged in a state of panic.”

The NSHR official described the manner in which Yara was strip-searched in prison as “inhuman”.

“It was degrading to her, both mentally and physically. The fact that she was asked to remove her clothes like that implied she was a criminal,” she said.

The NSHR member said the rights body would urge the Governorate of Riyadh to drop all fingerprinted confession papers from Yara’s public file.

“We also will take note of the violations that had occurred in this case and notify the governorate about them. We further will ask that Yara be compensated for the damages she sustained,” she said.http://www.arabnews.com/?page=1&section=0&article=106645&d=10&m=2&y=2008

Seems ironic that the religious police would consider drinking coffee in a public place indecent, but would then forcibly strip search the woman.


What is more ironic is that she was arrested for having coffee in a public space with an unrelated male, and then forced to get into a car with the male person who arrested her, who is also an unrelated male.

the fact that the muthafuckin bullshit house of saud have starbucks in the country they govern pisses me off eough anyway.

bunch of fuckin punk bitches!!!

all in all these buitches are hypocriticial fuckin pricks.. as the Amazing one states

The religious police have arrested a woman for the crime of having a cup of coffee with a male colleage at a Starbucks! While being held, she was strip searched. Seems ironic that the religious police would consider drinking coffee in a public place indecent, but would then forcibly strip search the woman.

The crime is being in a public place with an unrelated male without a chaperone.

What exactly is there to complain about?

The crime is being in a public place with an unrelated male without a chaperone.

What exactly is there to complain about?


the house of saud and their bunch of fuckers are the buiggest hypocirtical cunts on the fuckin planet, thats enogub to complain abotu.

and the fuckers are even profiteering from Hajj

the fuckas!!!

The religious police have arrested a woman for the crime of having a cup of coffee with a male colleage at a Starbucks! While being held, she was strip searched. Seems ironic that the religious police would consider drinking coffee in a public place indecent, but would then forcibly strip search the woman.
http://www.arabnews.com/?page=1&section=0&article=106645&d=10&m=2&y=2008

Do you honestly expect a rational response on this topic ? Anything the religious police regard as indecent is, by definition, indecent, Quite simple really. I have spent a short time in that depressing country and seen the fanatical police in action.

The right way to handle the situation is to give the offending couple a few hundred lashes to teach them the error of their ways

Like WTF ?
Seriously. Is this what passes for Entertainment in that country ?
This (like protesting at gay funerals..or causing them), is religion taken to the extreme.

the house of saud and their bunch of fuckers are the buiggest hypocirtical cunts on the fuckin planet, thats enogub to complain abotu.

and the fuckers are even profiteering from Hajj

the fuckas!!!

The US and the UK will not say a word against Saudi because it might predjudice arms sales and, as we all know, money is more important than people.

Here, in the UK, Tony Blair blocked an enquiry into corruption between a British firm and Saudis. His reaon ? It would serve no useful purpose. THe Saudis had condemned the enquiry from the outset and made it clear that it could predjudice and arms deal which was under discussion,

So hypocrisy is not confined to Saudi, but I'm sure you know that.

The US and the UK will not say a word against Saudi because it might predjudice arms sales and, as we all know, money is more important than people.

Here, in the UK, Tony Blair blocked an enquiry into corruption between a British firm and Saudis. His reaon ? It would serve no useful purpose. THe Saudis had condemned the enquiry from the outset and made it clear that it could predjudice and arms deal which was under discussion,

So hypocrisy is not confined to Saudi, but I'm sure you know that.

they are all fuckas myles.. its not jsut arms sales but opil and their export of whabbism and deobandism etc,....

good post mate

Sounds to me like someone wanted to do a strip search.:itold: Realllllly BAD.

It is possible she was smuggling coffee beans.

It is possible she was smuggling coffee beans.

and sugar.. We know how addictive that is.

SAM said Saudi Arabia was a multicultural utopia where everyone was all chilled out and cool and America could learn a thing or too from the ultra modern Saudi Arabia and how open minded and cool it's culture is.

Are you calling SAM a liar? I will have to report you if you are...

SAM said Saudi Arabia was a multicultural utopia where everyone was all chilled out and cool and America could learn a thing or too from the ultra modern Saudi Arabia and how open minded and cool it's culture is.

Are you calling SAM a liar? I will have to report you if you are...

hahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahah


nice one doc lou

SAM said Saudi Arabia was a multicultural utopia where everyone was all chilled out and cool and America could learn a thing or too from the ultra modern Saudi Arabia and how open minded and cool it's culture is.

Are you calling SAM a liar? I will have to report you if you are...

The religious police suck. Even the Saudis think so.



The "virtue commission", if you hadn't figured it out, is the Religious Police. A complete misnomer, of course. Makes them sound like a group of choirboys. The reality is that they are the no-hopers, the social misfits, the failed Imams, the men who will never be married even though we have a surplus of eligible unmarried women. Ugly in looks, ugly in nature, ugly in behavior. If the Saudi gene pool had a pool boy, they'd have been sucked out with the dead insects and rotting leaves, and emptied down the drain long ago.

And the change is that while they will still be able to pounce on the unsuspecting victims (like the young Saudi pair I once saw wandering slowly up and down the aisles of the supermarket, deep in conversation alongside the frozen chickens, one sack of rice in the trolley, obviously in love, obviously not married, obviously keeping out of sight of their families, a doomed Romeo and Juliet story in the making), the Muttawa will only be able to make the arrest, but not indulge in their usual knockabout interrogation routine (The number of slaps increasing with the darkness of your skin, women usually treated slightly more leniently, but not necessarily).

And that change is A Good Thing. A step in the right direction, however small. For while the police have their faults, I would much rather be in their care than in the care of the Muttawa. The police may be lazy, and reluctant to go after anyone who looks remotely like a Prince, but they are not such a rule unto themselves, and do not have the reputation for mindless gratuitous abuse and violence that the Muttawa do.

http://muttawa.blogspot.com/

The religious police suck. Even the Saudis think so.

http://muttawa.blogspot.com/


what exactly do they suck samidy sam???

Big Time, apparently. :)

Big Time, apparently. :)

thank God i have never come in to the presence of these fuckas...

thank God i have never come in to the presence of these fuckas...

Neither have I, though I have heard stories.

In the words of the Saudi from the link above:

Why The Religious Policeman?

Because, in my opinion, the Religious Police epitomize what is wrong with my country at present. They combine religious fanaticism and intolerance with the apparatus of a police state. They are recruited from the dregs of society, yet they presume to tell other God-fearing people how to conduct their religious lives. They killed innocent young lives in Makkah, yet they were never held to account.


I'm a great believer in the Internet, and in the power of information to cast a light into the darker corners of our world. Saudi Arabia is certainly one of those dark corners. I'm hoping that people will recognize that on the whole we are good folk, just like anyone else, but caught between an ultra-conservative Royal dictatorship on one side, and a fundamentalist religious establishment on the other. I am hopeful that this will inform their opinions of us. I would also like, in my own small way, to educate opinion within Saudi Arabia and around the world that might start to engineer change in our country.

They give the people a bad name.

They give the people a bad name.

Wow, a psychologist would have a field day with that one.

they are all fuckas myles.. its not jsut arms sales but opil and their export of whabbism and deobandism etc,....

good post mate

Agreed. When I got home frm Saudi, I said very little about life there because I did not expect to be believed.

Wow, a psychologist would have a field day with that one.

I was good friends with two Saudis for almost 5 years. One was a black Saudi woman who was a nurse and one a white Saudi guy who was officially an Xray technician but unofficially helped me out with Arabic and paperwork in my department.

After the initial awkward cultural phase, we became very good friends.

Agreed. When I got home frm Saudi, I said very little about life there because I did not expect to be believed.



you lived in the KSA????????????????

man........ unlucky.........

this is why the war on terror is fucked up, cos surely they would check where all the money and ideology comes from first, with the west' inability to do anything against the hous eof Saud, just shows they are not serious about the war onterror but are waging a war of teror and that the war on teror is just a smoke screen for political and economic gain.

I was good friends with two Saudis for almost 5 years. One was a black Saudi woman who was a nurse and one a white Saudi guy who was officially an Xray technician but unofficially helped me out with Arabic and paperwork in my department.

After the initial awkward cultural phase, we became very good friends.

Let me get this straight: if you were in a coffee shop in KSA, and I just happened to walk in and see you, and said: "Hey, Sam! How's it going?" And then I proceeded to sit next to you and chat over coffee, you would be arrested, and nothing would happen to me?

SAM said Saudi Arabia was a multicultural utopia where everyone was all chilled out and cool and America could learn a thing or too from the ultra modern Saudi Arabia and how open minded and cool it's culture is.

Are you calling SAM a liar? I will have to report you if you are...

I think you have misunderstood SAM/. She said the complete opposite to me when I criticized sharia based on a book I bought in Saudi.She, in effect. suggested that Saudi was not a Muslim country in the strict sense of the word. It's ironic that, at the time, one of the things I mentioned was the relogious police carrying long sticks which they used to hit any woman not "properely" attired.

you lived in the KSA????????????????

man........ unlucky.........

this is why the war on terror is fucked up, cos surely they would check where all the money and ideology comes from first, with the west' inability to do anything against the hous eof Saud, just shows they are not serious about the war onterror but are waging a war of teror and that the war on teror is just a smoke screen for political and economic gain.

I spent six monts there on a work-related assignment. It seemed like six years.

I think you have misunderstood SAM/. She said the complete opposite to me when I criticized sharia based on a book I bought in Saudi.She, in effect. suggested that Saudi was not a Muslim country in the strict sense of the word. It's ironic that, at the time, one of the things I mentioned was the relogious police carrying long sticks which they used to hit any woman not "properely" attired.

hey Myles,

i was actually thinking Doc lou was being funny!!!

thats why i laughed, because we know SAM doesnt agree with the KSA..

Who does she agree with?

Let me get this straight: if you were in a coffee shop in KSA, and I just happened to walk in and see you, and said: "Hey, Sam! How's it going?" And then I proceeded to sit next to you and chat over coffee, you would be arrested, and nothing would happen to me?

You've got it. A woman must not be i the company of a male who is not a relative, unless she is accompnied by a chaperone. SAM is taking a rosy view. I found individual Saudis I met on a day-to -day basis no different from poeople anywhere else I have been. The problem lies in the way the Kingdom is ruled .

Let me get this straight: if you were in a coffee shop in KSA, and I just happened to walk in and see you, and said: "Hey, Sam! How's it going?" And then I proceeded to sit next to you and chat over coffee, you would be arrested, and nothing would happen to me?

It would depend where you were, I think. I went to Taif, Mecca, Riyadh and Jeddah. We went for meals with our designated drivers, who anyway did not sit with us. But several times we had meals with other people who were obviously Indians, once with a couple I knew who were Sri Lankan/Moroccan at a beach in Jeddah, no hassles.

But I would assume in places like al Gharia or al Ghassim where muttawas run amok, both of us would be in deep shit. As Muslims, that is. :)

Not certain what the policy is towards non-Muslims.

couldnt you just lie and say you werent a muslim

Most places you go to they will leave tourists throwing around plenty of cash alone.

It would depend where you were, I think. I went to Taif, Mecca, Riyadh and Jeddah. We went for meals with our designated drivers, who anyway did not sit with us. But several times we had meals with other people who were obviously Indians, once with a couple I knew who were Sri Lankan/Moroccan at a beach in Jeddah, no hassles.

But I would assume in places like al Gharai or al Ghassim where muttawas run amok, both of us would be in deep shit. As Muslims, that is. :)

Not certain what the policy is towards non-Muslims.

Alright, I see what you mean.

My uncle told me after he came back from Hajj that police in Saudi Arabia have lots of power and control over people, and usually get away with whatever they want. He said that being a police officer is what lots of people strive for over there.

Not so sure how true that is, but the country does kind of seem like it's run by lots of strict authorities in order to enforce bizarre laws.

I found individual Saudis I met on a day-to -day basis no different from poeople anywhere else I have been. The problem lies in the way the Kingdom is ruled .

Thats what I'm saying

couldnt you just lie and say you werent a muslim

Uh no everyone has an iqama, which is the equivalent of an ID.

Alright, I see what you mean.

My uncle told me after he came back from Hajj that police in Saudi Arabia have lots of power and control over people, and usually get away with whatever they want. He said that being a police officer is what lots of people strive for over there.

Not so sure how true that is, but the country does kind of seem like it's run by lots of strict authorities in order to enforce bizarre laws.

I actually found the cops to be pretty cool there. Had a friend who was a cop.

more interstingly is why is Starbucks allowed to operate in the fuckin KSA.

bunch of hypocritical fuckas they are

Uh no everyone has an iqama, which is the equivalent of an ID.





oh bullocks.......... iot was just a thoguht anyway.........

aresholes!!!

more interstingly is why is Starbucks allowed to operate in the fuckin KSA.

bunch of hypocritical fuckas they are

Yeah, that's what I'm thinking. Why do they have an American company on their soil?

Yeah, that's what I'm thinking. Why do they have an American company on their soil?


its not just that mate i read on a saudi website (cant remeber what one) and on a fe w other websites, that the Starbucks chairman or president or whatever gives a lot fo the profits star bucks makes to the fuckin IDF.. It was actually in an open letter from the president or whatever

but then again that could just be a myth

its not just that mate i read on a saudi website (cant remeber what one) and on a fe w other websites, that the Starbucks chairman or president or whatever gives a lot fo the profits star bucks makes to the fuckin IDF.. It was actually in an open letter from the president or whatever

Well, the CEO of Starbucks is Howard Schultz (spelling?), who has called himself an active Zionist.

Yeah, that's what I'm thinking. Why do they have an American company on their soil?

You're kidding right?

Aramco was the biggest employer there since the 1930s

They have MacDonalds, Wendys, KFC all non-alcoholic American fanchises

http://www.arriyadh.com/cgi-bin/images/itemID1301_photo03.jpg

The highways look Americans, they buy American cars (more Japanese now), you can get all American stuff there.

Read my last post...

Read my last post...

This is Saudi Arabia, they are allies with the US. Do you think they give a damn about Zionism?:rolleyes:

This is Jeddah

http://www.hanco-ksa.com/images/jeddah.jpg

Believe me, its an incredibly beautiful and very modern city

This is the Economic city (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_Abdullah_Economic_City) they are planning

http://gfx.dagbladet.no/pub/artikkel/5/50/505/505973/abdullah_economic_city_1184165811.jpg

What the CEO of starbucks does is of no concern to them UNLESS it affects them.

What the CEO of starbucks does is of no concern to them UNLESS it affects them.

bunch of cunts..........

they are more hypocritical then me!!!

bunch of cunts..........

they are more hypocritical then me!!!

Not to say they haven't tried their bit. The Arab proposal towards integration of Israel into the ME is the only viable one.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/israel/Story/0,,2046552,00.html

Not that it leads anywhere

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/news/2007/03/mil-070330-rianovosti03.htm

yeah but that is it sam, and that probably just a smoke screen anyway

bunch of arsewipes they are

Why do people who know the laws of the country get all upset when they are punished for breaking the laws of that country?

hey orleander

just cos you know the lawss doesnt mean that you think they are just lawas or you agree with them

This is Saudi Arabia, they are allies with the US. Do you think they give a damn about Zionism?:rolleyes:

This is Jeddah

Believe me, its an incredibly beautiful and very modern city

This is the Economic city (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_Abdullah_Economic_City) they are planning

What the CEO of starbucks does is of no concern to them UNLESS it affects them.

Yeah, and there's the fucking problem. You have a few gluttonous, misshapen, self-absorbed dickheads who are readily exchanging the blood of their kindred for the satisfaction of temporary power. They are gutless vultures, who sit passively as millions of dollars from the companies they support and sustain go directly to the IDF.

I sincerely hope they enjoy this impermanent luxury, because I guarantee you their system is not built for the long run. Someday, they will be exposed as cowards and deceitful scum, hung by their necks for all to see. Of course they don't give a damn what the CEO of Starbucks does with his money, which is the entire problem. I fiend for the day their oilfields run dry, so their corrupt and spineless selves can plummet to the stature of those they turned a blind eye towards when they were on top of the world.

hey orleander

just cos you know the lawss doesnt mean that you think they are just lawas or you agree with them

That goes for any country. :)

More on the Saudi women

Female Saudi bloggers are getting blocked in Saudi Arabia.

Perhaps someone does not want them informing the women what its like outside or possibly creating an atmosphere of rebellion?

http://www.natashatynes.com/newswire/2006/06/saudi_women_blo.html

I fiend for the day their oilfields run dry, so their corrupt and spineless selves can plummet to the stature of those they turned a blind eye towards when they were on top of the world.
excellent

agreed kadark, but i'd go further
not just the KSA BUT the entire bullshit middleeast's oil

That goes for any country. :)


yep thats what i was tryin to tell orleander

It would depend where you were, I think. I went to Taif, Mecca, Riyadh and Jeddah. We went for meals with our designated drivers, who anyway did not sit with us. But several times we had meals with other people who were obviously Indians, once with a couple I knew who were Sri Lankan/Moroccan at a beach in Jeddah, no hassles.

But I would assume in places like al Gharia or al Ghassim where muttawas run amok, both of us would be in deep shit. As Muslims, that is. :)

Not certain what the policy is towards non-Muslims.

I have seen police in Riyadh hitting women on the back with their big sticks , for not getting out of a supermarket quickly enough at prayer time. I have also seen other forms of abuse but I would only be repeating myself.

I have seen police in Riyadh hitting women on the back with their big sticks , for not getting out of a supermarket quickly enough at prayer time. I have also seen other forms of abuse but I would only be repeating myself.

Where in Riyadh? I have been there several times but I have not seen this.

hey orleander

just cos you know the lawss doesnt mean that you think they are just lawas or you agree with them

so she was practicing civil disobendience?

Where in Riyadh? I have been there several times but I have not seen this.

At a shopping mall somewhere close to Pepsi ( Road, ave. ) I cannot believe that such behaviour is restricted to one part of the city. I'm not absolutely certain of the location because when I was there most of the streets were not named. I remember Seteen ( arabic sixty ) street, coffee cup corner near the airport. People usuall had nicknames for such areas

so she was practicing civil disobendience?

give us a break orleander

You're kidding right?

Aramco was the biggest employer there since the 1930s

They have MacDonalds, Wendys, KFC all non-alcoholic American fanchises

http://www.arriyadh.com/cgi-bin/images/itemID1301_photo03.jpg

The highways look Americans, they buy American cars (more Japanese now), you can get all American stuff there.

You forgot the pork chops

You forgot the pork chops


no dont be silly Myles thats for the monarchy only!!!

no dont be silly Myles thats for the monarchy only!!!

I can't seem to get anything right nowadays. I can only blame senility.

Yeah, that's what I'm thinking. Why do they have an American company on their soil?Why the hell shouldn't they have an American company on their soil? You'd prefer Blenz?

I assumed Zak meant why have the Starbucks there if you're going to arrest people for drinking the coffee in mixed company. Do restaurants in Saudi Arabia typically have a male/female section to avoid this scandalous behavior? Or are women just expected to always have a chaperone with them?

Why the hell shouldn't they have an American company on their soil? You'd prefer Blenz?

I assumed Zak meant why have the Starbucks there if you're going to arrest people for drinking the coffee in mixed company. Do restaurants in Saudi Arabia typically have a male/female section to avoid this scandalous behavior? Or are women just expected to always have a chaperone with them?

The muttawwas have arbitrary rules.

the wonderful world of islam. what freedom!!!

the wonderful world of islam. what freedom!!!

How true. They've even got freedom to live on the West Bank courtesy of Israel.

When I read: The National Society for Human Rights (NSHR)
I immediately thought of "The Patriot Act"

funny isn't it? How one is so obvious to the one and the other to the other...

How true. They've even got freedom to live on the West Bank courtesy of Israel.

considering they wanted to finish off what Hitler started it is.

the wonderful world of islam. what freedom!!!

If I recall it is to remove the military backing the US gives the Sauds that some people are fighting.

If I recall it is to remove the military backing the US gives the Sauds that some people are fighting.

the sauds control in the ME will end, one way or another.

give us a break orleander

OK Zak, I'm missing something here. She knew the laws of the country, but chose to break them anyways. Isn't this what civil disobedience is?
What am I not understanding?

OK Zak, I'm missing something here. She knew the laws of the country, but chose to break them anyways. Isn't this what civil disobedience is?
What am I not understanding?

She was not in a private or secluded place with the unrelated male, but in a public and busy coffee shop. From madanthonywayne's link in the OP:

"According to Al-Angari, several serious violations of human rights were apparent in this case. “First of all, Yara was not in a state of khulwa,” said Al-Angari. “She was in a public place where people were all around them,” said Al-Angari."

Then of course we have the fact that the fact that she was arrested by a male member of the Commission for the Promotion of Virtue and the Prevention of Vice, who then forced her into a taxi cab and took her to another location to be strip searched. The irony and the hypocrisy of this is astounding. The member of the Commission for the Promotion of Virtue and the Prevention of Vice is also an unrelated male, who arrested her for having a cup of coffee in a public and busy coffee shop with an unrelated male. He then forced her into a taxi (more secluded and private than a coffee shop), being an unrelated male himself, he was breaking the very rule he was apparently arresting her for and then took her to prison.

She was then denied the right to call her husband or her family, also a big no no.

-------------------------------------------------------------------

There is another aspect to this story that I found particularly interesting. Again from madanthony's link:

The incident occurred on the same day that Yakin Ertürk, the special rapporteur of the United Nations Human Rights Council on Violence Against Women, arrived in the Kingdom on a 10-day visit.

Trying to prove a point maybe?

ooooooo, I thought the law applied to anywhere, not just a private secluded spot.

the sauds control in the ME will end, one way or another.

Not anytime soon. Like the Israelis, they have the backing of the US. Thats 800 billion dollars of Saudi money in circulation, 65% of which is invested in the US. I'd say they rate higher than Israel.

Not anytime soon. Like the Israelis, they have the backing of the US. Thats 800 billion dollars of Saudi money in circulation, 65% of which is invested in the US. I'd say they rate higher than Israel.

thats because of their oil, nothing more. suadia is the number one sponsor for terror. oil is the only reason the US didnt invade them. and unless obama wins, their next.

You sure about that? I would argue that the government of the United States has been the leader in state-sponsored terrorism for generations. Supporting dictatorships and apartheid states has always been policy if we thought it in our interests. And those we sponsor don't use a few airplanes as missiles - they use whole air forces. And it's our cash that makes it possible. Why be upset with another nation doing exactly as we? Ah... yes. The old "do as I say not as I do argument?

Off topic: How the hell has everyone been? The WE&P forums are still exciteable, I see.

:m: Peace.

You sure about that? I would argue that the government of the United States has been the leader in state-sponsored terrorism for generations. Supporting dictatorships and apartheid states has always been policy if we thought it in our interests. And those we sponsor don't use a few airplanes as missiles - they use whole air forces. And it's our cash that makes it possible. Why be upset with another nation doing exactly as we? Ah... yes. The old "do as I say not as I do argument?

Off topic: How the hell has everyone been? The WE&P forums are still exciteable, I see.

:m: Peace.
:eek:

GOOFY!!!

How have you been Mr! Haven't seen you in ages.

*Hugs*

:p

OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG
<wimper> its him! its goofyfish!!!

You sure about that? I would argue that the government of the United States has been the leader in state-sponsored terrorism for generations. Supporting dictatorships and apartheid states has always been policy if we thought it in our interests. And those we sponsor don't use a few airplanes as missiles - they use whole air forces. And it's our cash that makes it possible. Why be upset with another nation doing exactly as we? Ah... yes. The old "do as I say not as I do argument?

Off topic: How the hell has everyone been? The WE&P forums are still exciteable, I see.

:m: Peace.

Hi goofy!! Welcome back! :D

thats because of their oil, nothing more. suadia is the number one sponsor for terror. oil is the only reason the US didnt invade them. and unless obama wins, their next.

Invading Saudi Arabia? :eek:You do know what invading the holiest places in Islam will not go down with the Muslims in Western countries, even those who have till now supported the terrorist attacked and illegal invasion and occupation by the US forces and those who are serving in the US army?

Invading Saudi Arabia? :eek:You do know what invading the holiest places in Islam will not go down with the Muslims in Western countries, even those who have till now supported the terrorist attacked and illegal invasion and occupation by the US forces and those who are serving in the US army?

blah. US is far from being terrorists. its a democracy defending itself against the backward population of the ME. they didnt even realized how bad it is in the ME until they got there.


of course you accept the result of the muslim world when they are under attack, other then the result when it is the US who was and is under attack.


i dont.

blah. US is far from being terrorists. its a democracy defending itself against the backward population of the ME. they didnt even realized how bad it is in the ME until they got there.


of course you accept the result of the muslim world when they are under attack, other then the result when it is the US who was and is under attack.


i dont.

The actions of the US after 9/11 can be regarded as terrorism, both in the most accepted defintion and in the economic sense. Iraq was never a threat and never attacked the US. It was the only secular country where all groups were protected, unlike your ally Saudiland run by murderous dictators.

ooooooo, I thought the law applied to anywhere, not just a private secluded spot.

hey orly

i am not concerend about the breaking of the law but the law itself.

~~~~~
cheers
zak

I would argue that the government of the United States has been the leader in state-sponsored terrorism for generations. Supporting dictatorships and apartheid states has always been policy if we thought it in our interests.How quickly the USSR has been forgotten!

Iraq was never a threat and never attacked the US. It was the only secular country where all groups were protected, unlike your ally Saudiland run by murderous dictators.

Well whatever your feelings are on Iraq is one thing but Saddam DID threaten the U.S on a number of occasions. Very graphically too.

Well whatever your feelings are on Iraq is one thing but Saddam DID threaten the U.S on a number of occasions. Very graphically too.

Oh? He had gunships floating at the US coast with weapons pointed? He showed the "button" he could press to rain down hell on all of us? What did he do? Wasnt he just angry with the US for putting those barbaric sanctions on him? One of the worst war crimes ever under the name of Oil for Food?

Anyone who drinks Starbuck's should be arrested.

Anyone who drinks Starbuck's should be arrested.I did try a coffee there once. I figured the $2.50 must have been the price of the mug - goddess only knows that the coffee wasn't worth $2.50 so that's my morning mug.

That is why she should have gone to Tim Hortons :D

Anyone who drinks Starbuck's should be arrested.

Never been to one. We have a Mom & Pop coffee shop I go to. I want to keep my money in the community.

Never been to one. We have a Mom & Pop coffee shop I go to. I want to keep my money in the community.

We have a little tiny punk rock coffee shop like a block from my house.....best chai tea ever!!!!

No, my place does. I don't like coffee, but I love me some chai tea.

I like the Java chip Frappuccino

/flees

Chai Lattes are amazing. I need to try one of those java chip fraps.

Those things are WAY too sweet for me - unless I'm hung over, then they are OK.
I prefer to go to a local cafe and drink mocha while I study language (or study the fine anatomy of some cute chicks walking by or in :p and just kick back and read something.

Never been to one. We have a Mom & Pop coffee shop I go to. I want to keep my money in the community.

That is the greatest, wisest thing I have ever read from you.
Regardless of our differences of opinion on so many things, I will never lose respect for you, based solely on that one statement.