The news says that he will rule as Iraq president for another 7 years.

I don't think it is easy for US to topple him.
He is an ironman.

why only 7 years?

I find it hard to believe that 100% have voted for him to go into power. Not a single person who voted was againest him?

hmmmm...me thinks about how the nazis go into power.

Beware, he will start World WAR III

He is santa's evil twin.

He gets the vote of every registered voter in iraq even though many of these die each year and some are members of a rebel faction, AND he collects millions of ballots and checks them in one night.

boy, were THOSE newsmen wrong.

I was wondering what the hell this thread was about.

it was made so i could make a joke of it 4 years later.

it was made so i could make a joke of it 4 years later.

Bite your tongue. The admin is running out of steam. They may like the idea of reinstating the lesser evil.

Hmm I wonder how they could justify it?

will never happen. saddam will recieve the death penalty.

that is a 100% guarantee, sam.

will never happen. saddam will recieve the death penalty.

that is a 100% guarantee, sam.

Nothing is ever guaranteed Bran.

Punish Saddam by making him president of Iraq?

Punish Saddam by making him president of Iraq?

He suggested it to the court, IIRC

he will be killed, sam. you know this in your heart of hearts, just as well as i do.

he was a naughty boy.

he will be killed, sam. you know this in your heart of hearts, just as well as i do.

he was a naughty boy.

Yes, he was. But no worse than all the others in power there. I wonder what will happen to Iraq in the next 10 years.

I bet he's killed less civilians than bush has by now.

saddam hussein personally signed the death warrant of over 100 of my relatives. it isnt something i take lightly...but i do think that the iraqis were probably better off WITH him, than with what is going on right now.

How many civilians did Saddam Hussein kill with WMDs?

http://www.moreorless.au.com/killers/hussein.html
Saddam Hussein - page 1

Full name Saddam Hussein al-Majid al Tikriti. AKA 'Great Uncle', AKA 'Lion of Babylon', AKA 'Lion of Iraq', AKA 'Beast of Baghdad'. Saddam translates to 'One Who Confronts'.

Country: Iraq.

Kill tally: Approaching two million, including between 150,000 and 340,000 Iraqis and between 450,000 and 730,000 Iranians killed during the Iran-Iraq War. An estimated 1,000 Kuwaiti nationals killed following the Iraqi invasion of Kuwait. No conclusive figures for the number of Iraqis killed during the Gulf War, with estimates varying from as few as 1,500 to as many as 200,000. Over 100,000 Kurds killed or "disappeared". No reliable figures for the number of Iraqi dissidents and Shia Muslims killed during Hussein's reign, though estimates put the figure between 60,000 and 150,000. (Mass graves discovered following the US occupation of Iraq in 2003 suggest that the total combined figure for Kurds, Shias and dissidents killed could be as high as 300,000). Approximately 500,000 Iraqi children dead because of international trade sanctions introduced following the Gulf War.

my family is kurdish/turkish.

http://www.moreorless.au.com/killers/hussein.html
Saddam Hussein - page 1

Full name Saddam Hussein al-Majid al Tikriti. AKA 'Great Uncle', AKA 'Lion of Babylon', AKA 'Lion of Iraq', AKA 'Beast of Baghdad'. Saddam translates to 'One Who Confronts'.

Country: Iraq.

Kill tally: Approaching two million, including between 150,000 and 340,000 Iraqis and between 450,000 and 730,000 Iranians killed during the Iran-Iraq War. An estimated 1,000 Kuwaiti nationals killed following the Iraqi invasion of Kuwait. No conclusive figures for the number of Iraqis killed during the Gulf War, with estimates varying from as few as 1,500 to as many as 200,000. Over 100,000 Kurds killed or "disappeared". No reliable figures for the number of Iraqi dissidents and Shia Muslims killed during Hussein's reign, though estimates put the figure between 60,000 and 150,000. (Mass graves discovered following the US occupation of Iraq in 2003 suggest that the total combined figure for Kurds, Shias and dissidents killed could be as high as 300,000). Approximately 500,000 Iraqi children dead because of international trade sanctions introduced following the Gulf War.

How many civilians did Saddam Hussein kill with WMDs?

....

well over 10,000 has been a proven figure.

there are other numbers floating around (most of them higher), but that is pretty much considered to be the standard figure.

what WMDs did he use on civilians?

http://www.phrusa.org/research/chemical_weapons/chemiraqgas2.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halabja_poison_gas_attack

http://www.phrusa.org/research/chemical_weapons/chemiraqgas2.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halabja_poison_gas_attack

I'm guessing he bought them from the US.

Why aren't these weapons forbidden for sale?

Why are they allowed to be made?

By what stretch of justification are they considered legitimate?

I think anyone who has to approve a WMD for mass production must first donate one family member for testing it. Or better yet, test it on himself.

1.how do you think georgie knew saddam had weapons like that?
because georgie was holding the reciept.

2. too many lawmakers make money from stock they own in the companies that make them.

3. see #2.

sick, isnt it?



this is alllll orchestrated.

So, he bought some VX gas warheads from the USA and then used them on civilians?

Should we add that to Saddam's total or america's?

I'm sure America would be glad to share.

So, he bought some VX gas warheads from the USA and then used them on civilians?

Should we add that to Saddam's total or america's?
both.
i personally hold both of them accountable.

Again some proof is required.

Again some proof is required.That sort of proof is hard to come by - like a confession of guilt.

I happen to know, but can not prove, that US satellite photos were supplied to aid Saddam deploy the gas against Iranian troops, back when US was supporting Saddam in his war with Iran. Iran had held US citizens for many (more than 100?) days and only released them a few hours after President Regan replaced Carter.

US support of Saddam is yet another example of the US policy of shot term concerns without reguard to US principles. Similar examples in my post at 45 past the hour in thread "Israel/Lebanon = convenient..." You will not like the two inserts in text quoted there showing Israel is doing the same type of things in Lebanon, but it is true.

Again some proof is required.

Proof of what? Suddam using wmd's?
That he brought them from Western corps?
What would you consider proof?

it is very very very common knowledge.

as neildo thought so funny, i will say it again: stfuyrn

Someone post that pic of rumsfeld shaking hands with Saddam Hussein....

right?!

i didnt even think i needed to mention it, so i didnt.

Are you giving me lip sonny boy?

Are you giving me lip sonny boy?
always.
but you gotta pay me first, sexaaaay.

Someone post that pic of rumsfeld shaking hands with Saddam Hussein....

What, this?

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/rumsfeld_saddam.gif

Arming Iraq: A Chronology of U.S. Involvement
By: John King, March 2003

What follows is an accurate chronology of United States involvement in the arming of Iraq during the Iraq-Iran war 1980-88. It is a powerful indictment of the president Bush administration attempt to sell war as a component of his war on terrorism. It reveals US ambitions in Iraq to be just another chapter in the attempt to regain a foothold in the Mideast following the fall of the Shah of Iran.

Arming Iraq and the Path to War
A crisis always has a history, and the current crisis with Iraq is no exception. Below are some relevant dates.

September, 1980. Iraq invades Iran. The beginning of the Iraq-Iran war. [8]

February, 1982. Despite objections from congress, President Reagan removes Iraq from its list of known terrorist countries. [1]

December, 1982. Hughes Aircraft ships 60 Defender helicopters to Iraq. [9]

1982-1988. Defense Intelligence Agency provides detailed information for Iraq on Iranian deployments, tactical planning for battles, plans for air strikes and bomb damage assessments. [4]

November, 1983. A National Security Directive states that the U.S would do "whatever was necessary and legal" to prevent Iraq from losing its war with Iran. [1] & [15]

November, 1983. Banca Nazionale del Lavoro of Italy and its Branch in Atlanta begin to funnel $5 billion in unreported loans to Iraq. Iraq, with the blessing and official approval of the US government, purchased computer controlled machine tools, computers, scientific instruments, special alloy steel and aluminum, chemicals, and other industrial goods for Iraq's missile, chemical, biological and nuclear weapons programs. [14]

October, 1983. The Reagan Administration begins secretly allowing Jordan, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, and Egypt to transfer United States weapons, including Howitzers, Huey helicopters, and bombs to Iraq. These shipments violated the Arms Export Control Act. [16]

November 1983. George Schultz, the Secretary of State, is given intelligence reports showing that Iraqi troops are daily using chemical weapons against the Iranians. [1]

Donald Rumsfeld -Reagan's Envoy- provided Iraq with
chemical & biological weapons
December 20, 1983. Donald Rumsfeld , then a civilian and now Defense Secretary, meets with Saddam Hussein to assure him of US friendship and materials support. [1] & [15]

July, 1984. CIA begins giving Iraq intelligence necessary to calibrate its mustard gas attacks on Iranian troops. [19]

January 14, 1984. State Department memo acknowledges United States shipment of "dual-use" export hardware and technology. Dual use items are civilian items such as heavy trucks, armored ambulances and communications gear as well as industrial technology that can have a military application. [2]

March, 1986. The United States with Great Britain block all Security Council resolutions condemning Iraq's use of chemical weapons, and on March 21 the US becomes the only country refusing to sign a Security Council statement condemning Iraq's use of these weapons. [10]

May, 1986. The US Department of Commerce licenses 70 biological exports to Iraq between May of 1985 and 1989, including at least 21 batches of lethal strains of anthrax. [3]

May, 1986. US Department of Commerce approves shipment of weapons grade botulin poison to Iraq. [7]

March, 1987. President Reagan bows to the findings of the Tower Commission admitting the sale of arms to Iran in exchange for hostages. Oliver North uses the profits from the sale to fund an illegal war in Nicaragua. [17]

Late 1987. The Iraqi Air Force begins using chemical agents against Kurdish resistance forces in northern Iraq. [1]

February, 1988. Saddam Hussein begins the "Anfal" campaign against the Kurds of northern Iraq. The Iraq regime used chemical weapons against the Kurds killing over 100,000 civilians and destroying over 1,200 Kurdish villages. [8]

April, 1988. US Department of Commerce approves shipment of chemicals used in manufacture of mustard gas. [7]

August, 1988. Four major battles were fought from April to August 1988, in which the Iraqis massively and effectively used chemical weapons to defeat the Iranians. Nerve gas and blister agents such as mustard gas are used. By this time the US Defense Intelligence Agency is heavily involved with Saddam Hussein in battle plan assistance, intelligence gathering and post battle debriefing. In the last major battle with of the war, 65,000 Iranians are killed, many with poison gas. Use of chemical weapons in war is in violation of the Geneva accords of 1925. [6] & [13]

August, 1988. Iraq and Iran declare a cease fire. [8]

August, 1988. Five days after the cease fire Saddam Hussein sends his planes and helicopters to northern Iraq to begin massive chemical attacks against the Kurds. [8]

September, 1988. US Department of Commerce approves shipment of weapons grade anthrax and botulinum to Iraq. [7]

September, 1988. Richard Murphy, Assistant Secretary of State: "The US-Iraqi relationship is... important to our long-term political and economic objectives." [15]

December, 1988. Dow chemical sells $1.5 million in pesticides to Iraq despite knowledge that these would be used in chemical weapons. [1]

July 25, 1990. US Ambassador to Baghdad meets with Hussein to assure him that President Bush "wanted better and deeper relations". Many believe this visit was a trap set for Hussein. A month later Hussein invaded Kuwait thinking the US would not respond. [12]

August, 1990 Iraq invades Kuwait. The precursor to the Gulf War. [8]

July, 1991 The Financial Times of London reveals that a Florida chemical company had produced and shipped cyanide to Iraq during the 80's using a special CIA courier. Cyanide was used extensively against the Iranians. [11]

August, 1991. Christopher Droguol of Atlanta's branch of Banca Nazionale del Lavoro is arrested for his role in supplying loans to Iraq for the purchase of military supplies. He is charged with 347 counts of felony. Droguol is found guilty, but US officials plead innocent of any knowledge of his crime. [14]

June, 1992. Ted Kopple of ABC Nightline reports: "It is becoming increasingly clear that George Bush Sr., operating largely behind the scenes throughout the 1980's, initiated and supported much of the financing, intelligence, and military help that built Saddam's Iraq into [an aggressive power]." [5]

July, 1992. "The Bush administration deliberately, not inadvertently, helped to arm Iraq by allowing U.S. technology to be shipped to Iraqi military and to Iraqi defense factories... Throughout the course of the Bush administration, U.S. and foreign firms were granted export licenses to ship U.S. technology directly to Iraqi weapons facilities despite ample evidence showing that these factories were producing weapons." Representative Henry Gonzalez, Texas, testimony before the House. [18]

February, 1994. Senator Riegle from Michigan, chairman of the Senate Banking Committee, testifies before the senate revealing large US shipments of dual-use biological and chemical agents to Iraq that may have been used against US troops in the Gulf War and probably was the cause of the illness known as Gulf War Syndrome. [7]

August, 2002. "The use of gas [during the Iran-Iraq war] on the battle field by the Iraqis was not a matter of deep strategic concern... We were desperate to make sure that Iraq did not lose". Colonel Walter Lang, former senior US Defense Intelligence officer tells the New York Times. [4]

This chronology of the United States' sordid involvement in the arming of Iraq can be summarized in this way: The United States used methods both legal and illegal to help build Saddam's army into the most powerful army in the Mideast outside of Israel. The US supplied chemical and biological agents and technology to Iraq when it knew Iraq was using chemical weapons against the Iranians. The US supplied the materials and technology for these weapons of mass destruction to Iraq at a time when it was know that Saddam was using this technology to kill his Kurdish citizens. The United States supplied intelligence and battle planning information to Iraq when those battle plans included the use of cyanide, mustard gas and nerve agents. The United States blocked UN censure of Iraq's use of chemical weapons. The United States did not act alone in this effort. The Soviet Union was the largest weapons supplier, but England, France and Germany were also involved in the shipment of arms and technology.


References:

1. Washingtonpost.com. December 30, 2002
2. Jonathan Broder. Nuclear times, Winter 1990-91
3. Kurt Nimno. AlterNet. September 23, 2002
4. Newyorktimes.com. August 29, 2002
5. ABC Nightline. June9, 1992
6. Counter Punch, October 10, 2002
7. Riegle Report: Dual Use Exports. Senate Committee on Banking. May 25, 1994
8. Timeline: A walk Through Iraq's History. U.S. Department of State
9. Doing Business: The Arming of Iraq. Daniel Robichear
10. Glen Rangwala. Labor Left Briefing, 16 September, 2002
11. Financial Times of London. July 3, 1991
12. Elson E. Boles. Counter Punch. October 10, 2002
13. Iran-Iraq War, 1980-1988. Iranchamber.com
14. Columbia Journalism Review. March/April 1993. Iraqgate
15. Times Online. December 31, 2002. How U.S. Helped Iraq Build Deadly Arsenal
16. Bush's Secret Mission. The New Yorker Magazine. November 2, 1992
17. Grolier Multimedia Encyclopedia: Iran-Contra Affair
18. Congressional Record. July 27, 1992. Representative Henry B. Gonzalez
19. Bob Woodward. CIA Aiding Iraq in Gulf War. Washington Post. 15 December, 1986
20. Case Study: The Anfal Campaign. www.gendercide.com

- N

And to finish this off, a few short videos:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KDkLqyiUCys

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W1EDCqxVT7U

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zbFzY1OooCw


- N

if america is held responsible then every one who makes/sells guns has to be arrested for a murders homicidal rampage.

Then again America is pure evil and any way we can drag its name through the mud we should.

Like america was the only country involved please the human spirit is capitalist everyone was trying to get a little bit money.

Yeah but selling someone WMDs, and then invading them for posessing WMDs? Come on.

The news says that he will rule as Iraq president for another 7 years.

I don't think it is easy for US to topple him.
He is an ironman.
http://twcenter.net/forums/images/smilies/emoticons/laughing2dw.gif http://twcenter.net/forums/images/smilies/emoticons/happy0198.gif http://twcenter.net/forums/images/smilies/emoticons/laughing2dw.gif

Yeah but selling someone WMDs, and then invading them for posessing WMDs? Come on.
uh huh.

the guys in control used to be considered "the crazies", even.

Yeah but selling someone WMDs, and then invading them for posessing WMDs? Come on.

There's numerous laws like that here in the U.S. Take police radar gun detectors, for example. Legal to buy and sell, but if you have one in your car, it's illegal. Or the plant salvia divinorum; legal to buy, sell, and grow, but if consumed by a human, it's illegal, heh.

- N

Yeah, that could be the case....but then who has more WMDs than anyone else on the entire planet? Are the USA going to invade themselves next?

Apparently Israel has nukes. Maybe the US could invade them next.

To Neildo (and Buffalo Roam):

Thanks Neildo for your well documented post at 15 past the hour. Buffalo Roam wanted proof - you sure gave it to him. In my post I could only speak from personnal indirect knowledge that US supplied Saddam with satellite photos showing the locations of Iranian troops, back when Saddam was one of US's "good guys."

(He became a "bad guy" when he tried to sell oil for Euros, instead of dollars.)

I almost feel sorry for Buffalo. When I was searching for my post below, I noticed that his defense of Israel's current rampage of war crimes in Lebanon has been reduced to "show the proof" - no attempts to counter the facts, he only trys to suggest they are not firmly proven. (I noted "show proof" was his only feeble reply six times!)

As he has not even given his "show proof" to my post replying to him on 6 Aug at 12 past the hour in thread " Israel uses Phosphorus bombs" of this forum, I repost it here (perhaps he missed it):

Buffalo had said:
"...it the people that keep attacking Israel, {1}kidnapping their people, {2}suicide bombing their children, {3}launching rocket into Israel, the people that insist on constant warfare no matter who has to die..."

and I replied:
Buffalo - I understand that in your view Israel can do no wrong, but this is a little much. Too one sided a distortion of the facts.

(1) In kidnapping, Israel is the king:

Even only counting the elected members of the Palestinian government, Israel hold a 3 to 1 advantage. The same day the first Israeli soldier was captured, two business men were kidnapped from their beds in Gaza. (I think they have now been released) I am not sure but think it was an error, as they were not even Palestinian, just foreigners in Gaza trying to make some money, but that is beside the point. - Kidnapping is kidnapping, regardless of the person taken, unless you call taking a soldier "capturing." As Isreal has only lost 3 soldiers, I assume you want to retain the "kidnap" terminology for all, but there does seem to me to be a difference, not with credit to Israel.

In any case, the "kidnap ratio" is at least 30 to 1 in Israel's favor.

(2) True, Israel does no use suicide bombers. Instead Israel used F-16 bombers:

Again Only counting the innocent Brazilians* killed by Israel in last three weeks by F-16s in Lebanon, the kill ratio is about 1 to 1!
If only innocent kids less than 13 years old are counted, the kill ratio is about 200 to 1 OR PERHAPS INFINITE, as I am not sure any Israeli child has yet died in the last 3 weeks. (There was a CNN report that a father and son in their car, which took a direct rocket hit, were killed, but the age of son was not given, as I recall.)

The difference in "Bombing Technology" is mainly due to Israel's superior US-supplied equipment. (I will grant that if the tables were turned, Israel could also find people willing to die instead of only push buttons from the safety of 30,000 feet, so I do not say there is any difference in courage.)

In any case, the kill ratio for innocents is at least 50 to 1** in Israel‘s advantage.

(3)"Launching Rocket into Israel" vs "Lobbing 155 caliper shell into Lebanon:"

Both these systems for delivering HE on your enemy are approximately equally deadly, but the Israel system is much more likely to put the HE and its metal shrapnel close to target (a few meters vs. a kilometer or more). Both accuracy and quantity of HE delivered are important. When this is considered, the smaller quantity of HE in each of Israel's US supplied system is more lethal. As for quantities of HE delivered each day, Israel holds at least a 3,000 to 1 advantage.

In any case, this is an over all 5,000 to 1 advantage for Israel.

ARE YOU SURE YOU WANT TO PLACE THE BLAME ON THE SIDE THAT DOES THE MOST:

(1)Killing of innocents
(2)Kidnapping, and
(3)Lobbing of HE ?

-----------------------------------------
*The Brazilian government has been able to get 290 Brazilians (a few men there on busness, but mainly tourist and people visiting relatives) out, but approximately 50 are unaccounted for. Perhaps the Brazilian dead count is higher than currently known.

**Here I am assuming the 11 or 12 Israelis just killed were NOT soldiers. - Most reports indicate they were newly called up reservist, poorly trained. If that is the case, then the "innocent kill ratio" is at least 100 to 1 in Israel's favor.

10Aug addition: It was 12 soldiers. 15 more Israeli soldiers died yesterday, so perhpas now Isreal has killed only 40 innocent people in Lebanon for each Israeli soldier that has died. On average, the Nazi killed about 20 in their "collective punishment" in occupied France for each German soldier killed by French resistance fighters. Israel should be ashamed to kill a greater than Nazi ratio of innocents in its current "collective punishment"

Apparently Israel has nukes. Maybe the US could invade them next.
it happened in 2000 with the republicans taking the executive branch.

selected, not elected.

Are the USA going to invade themselves next?

They have. The government is at war with its citizens. Bye bye, Rights.

Peek-a-boo.

- N

They have. The government is at war with its citizens. Bye bye, Rights.

Peek-a-boo.

- N
Are u following me?

Neildo u r at war with yourself, breathe deeply, think of england, relaxed good.

breathe deeply, think of england, relaxed good.

Well, tomorrow I'll be headin' down to Santa Monica and eating at Ye Olde King's Head. That's some real good fish 'n chips I tell ya. Love the batter. A shepherd's pie too!

Perhaps I'll go grab a UJ newspaper there too.

Mmm, ze Motherland..

- N

Well, tomorrow I'll be headin' down to Santa Monica and eating at Ye Olde King's Head. That's some real good fish 'n chips I tell ya. Love the batter. A shepherd's pie too!

Perhaps I'll go grab a UJ newspaper there too.

Mmm, ze Motherland..

- N

Ah santa monica, thats wear jimbo, james garner filmed the rockford files, i can see that pier now, clean air, the smell of the sea, the smell of fish & chips, u do know how to make me jealous, all i have to smell in bangkok is nothing but smog, as the 2 billion cars here climb over eachother.

I hate fucking cars & i hate fucking smog, & i hate fucking oil, they should all be banned....

Heh, Rockford Files.. old show. They filmed a lot of their stuff and had their storylines where I live in Oxnard. Usually when a show is filmed near the beach and it supposedly takes place in or around LA, it's actually further up the coast here.

- N

Billy T, I have been providing the proof it yor turn, why should I have to do all the work?

Heh, Rockford Files.. old show. They filmed a lot of their stuff and had their storylines where I live in Oxnard. Usually when a show is filmed near the beach and it supposedly takes place in or around LA, it's actually further up the coast here.

- N


U r very lucky, yeah i remember Oxnard, rocky from the rockford files was supposed to go to Oxnard, to buy one of those big trucks in one episode, it was a running joke in the episode cause they never had time to go there.

Rock. Files My favourite tv show & favourite all time tv music, along with the hawaii five O tune, and fawlty towers of course.

i used to frequent the promenade in santa monica quite a bit...there was a novelty store that had a lifesize "pinhead" statue from the hellraiser movies...i always wanted it, but was always about 2000 dollars short, no matter how a scratched and saved...:(
i saw that old man go on his driving spree a few years back. :D

http://www.zaldiva.com/images/STATUES/HELLRAISER/pinhead_minibust_pic1.jpg

!!!!

- N

http://www.zaldiva.com/images/STATUES/HELLRAISER/pinhead_minibust_pic1.jpg

!!!!

- N
:eek: Is that the new Jesus?

nieldo...not quite..this was pinhead standing up, holding the box.

cool bust though.


genji....We have such sights to show you......