In the 60s the soviet union started creating an ABM system that would use ground based and space based lasers to shoot down incoming ballistic missiles. this was due to be compleated and operational by the late 90's or shortly after the year 2000, however the soviet union fell apart in 1992... this is where my question comes in: By 1992 32 years after the start of the program the technology would be almost finished and in the beta testing state... this is visable by the russian ASAT system which uses ground based laser systems to damage or destroy satalites in low orbit. would it be possible that the technology was post-poned and kept secret, stashed in boxes somwhere in siberia waiting to be deployed? if so do you think it was found and secretly is being put back in operation now that russia seems to be becoming stable again (relatively)?

just a thought.

Ground based lasers make very poor ASAT weapons because of atmospheric volatility. Same reason you can't hit the ground from space and do any sort of damage.

Anyway, why would they be spending their time on something like this with the Cold War over?

maybe because the bush admin is so egar to setup their own ABM system?

ps: what about particle beams? I heard that was also being considered at the time and was researched to a great extent.

Particle beams have similar issues. A charged PBW could reach out a ways through the atmosphere due to the formation of an ion channel, but it would disperse in the vacuum of space due to similar charge repulsion. A neutral PBW would work fine in a vacuum, but in the atmosphere it would be stifled by the gas molecules.

As far as i know the working asat system is space based with ground based tracking systems, and uses Kosmos satalites that exist in the mona orbit, the system was not tested after 1991 but should still be working if one wanted to start it again... But i really think that the 32 years of research into the laser system must be stashed somwhere in its final phases.

Although in 1975-85 , several blindings occured on the infrared sensors of spy satalites over western siberia, many thought it was a soviet ground based laser ASAT system.

Remember that in order to kill an incoming missile you would need enormous amounts of power to make the laser strong enough to hurt the missile. That power would equall the power of an atomic bomb in order for the laser to have enough force at those distances, over 1000 miles, to actually hurt the incoming proijectile. Even 100 miles you'd need a great deal of power to kill the missile or damage it and if they coated the missile with a mirror finish the laser would reflect off of the skin and bounce away not even damaging the missile in any way whatsoever.

"Remember that in order to kill an incoming missile you would need enormous amounts of power to make the laser strong enough to hurt the missile That power would equall the power of an atomic bomb in order for the laser to have enough force at those distances"

no it wouldnt , lasers dont spread, all the photons travel in exactly the same direction making the intensity much greater, the only reason for such a thing to happen is atmospheric disturbance. but in space you dont have to worry about it that much.

"if they coated the missile with a mirror finish the laser would reflect off of the skin and bounce away not even damaging the missile in any way whatsoever.
Reply"

That would have to be some super mirrior not likely as when coming out the silo it would likely be deformed, scratched etc... a non perfect one only covers only part of the light spectrum the rest is absorbed, heating it up and causing it to shatter if the laser is powerfull enough.

"Remember that in order to kill an incoming missile you would need enormous amounts of power to make the laser strong enough to hurt the missile That power would equall the power of an atomic bomb in order for the laser to have enough force at those distances"

no it wouldnt , lasers dont spread, all the photons travel in exactly the same direction making the intensity much greater, the only reason for such a thing to happen is atmospheric disturbance. but in space you dont have to worry about it that much.

"if they coated the missile with a mirror finish the laser would reflect off of the skin and bounce away not even damaging the missile in any way whatsoever.
Reply"

That would have to be some super mirrior not likely as when coming out the silo it would likely be deformed, scratched etc... a non perfect one only covers only part of the light spectrum the rest is absorbed, heating it up and causing it to shatter if the laser is powerfull enough.


"Not ready yet
The ABL beam will be generated by several laser modules. When light from these modules is amplified with a resonator (a set of mirrors that must be able to withstand the intense energy of a laser beam), the combined output is a single, powerful beam. There are other mirrors and optics through which the beam passes that alter it for travel through the atmosphere. All must be able to withstand the beam's power.

The original ABL design calls for 14 laser modules to achieve the power needed to disable an enemy missile, according to a July 2002 General Accounting Office (GAO) report, "Missile Defense: Knowledge-Based Decision Making Needed to Reduce Risks in Developing Airborne Laser." Team ABL--which includes major contractors Boeing, TRW, and Lockheed Martin as well as the Pentagon's Missile Defense Agency--is currently working on a six-rather than 14-module system, which it will flight test in 2004 to demonstrate the ABL's vital technologies. It is unclear, however, when an ABL with 14 modules will be demonstrated.

Team ABL announced in March 2002 that one of the laser modules had demonstrated 118 percent of its required power. However, the July GAO report argued that the test system did not represent the operational laser because it was fundamentally different from the proposed operational laser. Based on the laser's design and performance, the GAO concluded that only parts of the system--rather than the system operating as a whole--had been demonstrated. They claimed that the chemical oxygen iodine laser (COIL) technology remains immature, in part because it has not been demonstrated with the resonator required for operation. "


http://www.thebulletin.org/article.php?art_ofn=mj03priebe



If the ABL becomes a reality, the plane will fly figure-eight patrols at 40,000 feet near hostile countries, such as North Korea.

Six heat-detecting infrared sensors on the jet's exterior will search in all directions for telltale signs of a missile's launch or exhaust plume. When a launch is spotted, the sensors and a ranging laser atop the jet will relay the data to a tracking laser that targets a spot just below the missile's nose.

Next, another laser bounces a beam off the missile to measure the atmospheric distortion between the plane and the target. A complex set of flexible mirrors adjusts to compensate for the distortion. Then, a megawatt-class chemical version fires a three-second or so beam.

"It essentially heats up the pressurized fuel tank of the missile, causing it to burst," said Scott Fancher, ABL program manager for prime contractor Boeing.

Most of ABL's exotic technologies already have been proved in pristine, controlled laboratory conditions. But moving them out of the laboratory and into a real-world weapons system has proved to be an engineering nightmare.

Engineers still are developing the 3 million lines of incredibly complicated computer code for the software that operates the system. And six large chemical-laser modules must be seamlessly linked together to produce enough power. Just fitting all of the systems into the plane is a huge challenge.

Each of the jet's dozens of lenses and mirrors must be perfectly aligned as lasers are fired and routed throughout the aircraft. A slight misalignment not only could disable the laser but could prove catastrophic for the plane and its crew of six to eight people.

Clouds of exhaust from the chemical laser will spew from the plane's belly during flight. The exhaust contributes to a phenomenon called jitter - vibrations the jet encounters while flying and operating its systems - that makes it tough to keep the chemical laser focused on targets hundreds of miles away. Jitter is considered the biggest technical threat facing ABL.


http://www.fas.org/spp/starwars/program/sbl.htm

I dont see how copy and pasting that info from those sources counters anything I said.

who cares if russia's making a new ABM system? good for them, they'll need it when NK and China go nuts and shoot thier nukes in every which way.

Remember that in order to kill an incoming missile you would need enormous amounts of power to make the laser strong enough to hurt the missile. That power would equall the power of an atomic bomb in order for the laser to have enough force at those distances, over 1000 miles, to actually hurt the incoming proijectile. Even 100 miles you'd need a great deal of power to kill the missile or damage it and if they coated the missile with a mirror finish the laser would reflect off of the skin and bounce away not even damaging the missile in any way whatsoever.
Izm is right. We've had multiple threads in GS&T about this. Long story short: it doesn't take much at all to damage a missile enough to kill it when it's gone supersonic. The slightest distortion to airframe symmetry will cause the missile to tear itself apart against atmospheric friction.

Also, the power levels involved are all but preclusive to the popular notions of "mirror armor". Even if you reflect 95% of the incident energy, that remainder will be absorbed, cause heating, reduce the reflective index, more will be absorbed, wash-rinse-repeat until destruction.

They're not spending billions on this thing and ignoring an achilles heel that a ten year old could think up.

you could throw a pebble at a speeding missile, and it would blow up if it were going supersonic. you dont need a laser, you just need a thing that can shoot a pepple real fuckin' high...
but, eh, why does it matter if russia is building one or not? is it really that significant now that the CW is over, and us & ru are no longer feuding little children?

the cold war is anything but over, I used to think it was a war against the commies... from whats going on now I think its a war against russia in general.

clearly visable due to:

*the cold war xenophobia of russia all across europe
*Ukrain falling to the west.
*the revolution in kergistan.
*Neo-nazis
*N.O.G.A sewing russia for some weird reasons.
*Russian gold being de-tained by french banks.
*Inuits.
*UFO's

no, the Cold War is officially over. It's been considered over since the Soviet Union collapsed in 1991. Check any sources, textbooks, encylopedias, you name it. As long as they're made after 1991, it'll say that the Cold War is over.

I know its over officially, but underneath its not. I was also making a joke incase you havent noticed.

yeah, i got the joke.
dont really care...
i dont care what's underneath, it is OFFICIALLY over and done with.

ok...

ok...
so, why does it matter if russia building an Anti-Ballistic missile System?
good for them, they'll need it when NK and PRC shoot thier nukes off in every direction.

I think its a good thing, stokes just tells my why things dont work... but if we look back at history westerners said it couldnt happen then it suddenly came out of the soviet union working in most respects.

eh.
well.
ha ha.
the west is trumped again by Mother Russia.
first thing in space.
first man in space.
first to orbit.
first to make an efective laser system that can shoot down nukes.

The last one is uncertain. ;)

we'll never know till it's tested...
*pushes gaint 10in x 10in red button labeled 'the button'...*
*nuclear missile goes up*
*nuclear missile hits moscow, millions die*
"damn! didnt work. ah, well. wanna go get pizza?"
"okay"

What if 300 missles were launched and only 30 of them were armed? How would a laser system know which ones to hit?

by having at least 300 barrels and an decent targeting system.

What if 300 missles were launched and only 30 of them were armed? How would a laser system know which ones to hit?

what if there were 300 missiles and 300 of them were armed? what kind of question is that? am I supposed to represent some sort of answer machine? people would get fucked, there are about 400 asat kenetic projectile satalites in the mona orbit... if someone got a kick they could shoot the 300 missiles down.

unless laser system has 300 barrels and a decent targeting system.
like i said.
that'd kill those 300 nukes easily.

300 barrels? its not a revolver.

did i say it was?
no.
i meant like a platform with 300 barrels, all directing energy from a powersource into a laser beam/bolt per barrel

I wont bother answering and wait for stokes to rape this.

who?

where?