I have had the pleasure of an invitation from one of our distinguished forum members for god to visit me. It is currently unknown as to what form the visitation will take, but it has been assured to me that I most certainly will know. I have also promised this forum member that I will defend any and all arguments they present thereafter as a result of the visit.

Of course, at that point, I will be a theist and a believer in god.

So, from time to time, I'll provide any unusual events that may have happened to me in order to discuss whether or not the event was the visitation. I'm hoping our distinguished forum member will chime in when the time is ripe.

At this time, there is nothing unusual to report, other than a small horse singing, "Hard Days Night" in a German accent.

Are you keeping a diary?
Day 1 - god not here.

This made me laugh (the horse and the diary).

Well, I guess I can look around too, I suppose. Seeing as in Gods everywhere anyway.
Day 1: God stopped by, we had tea, She gave me a really hot lap dance. God, God has some really really nice tits. Real nice .. .. . .... ;)

Please do me a favour and send him to me too....but no horses at all....hoses scare me to death.....haha !.

It is now day 4,927,500,000,000 after the start of the universe.

Nothing to report.

How will we distinguish between a purposeful visitation and a severe bout of indigestion?
Will flatulence be a sign?

OriginalBiggles, Prime

How will we distinguish between a purposeful visitation and a severe bout of indigestion?
Will flatulence be a sign?

OriginalBiggles, Prime

If flatulence was a sign, it's little wonder cows are sacred.

At this time, there is nothing unusual to report, other than a small horse singing, "Hard Days Night" in a German accent.

he is probably just evolving. no miracles here.:cool:

he is probably just evolving. no miracles here.:cool:

Careful, that's "Top Secret." :D

I have had the pleasure of an invitation from one of our distinguished forum members for god to visit me........

Of course, at that point, I will be a theist and a believer in god.



Not really, as you can maintain your opinion as well know for a fact which you are, as soon as HE/SHE(Cousin IT) answered your questions.

If an appearance comes; ask if you an atheist.



At this time, there is nothing unusual to report, other than a small horse singing, "Hard Days Night" in a German accent.

Hey Lori, was that HIM? (the singing horse)

Q, was it blue and hung deep? (the krishna god guy is supposed to have had 16,000 gopis (wives/girlfriends) and that would make any man (horse) a god to ME)

or did anyone get a desciption so we all can know when our 'cousin' shows up?

be nice if we could verify who or what the 'almighty salami' is.


can we get a 'report' on that?

Day 2 - god not here.

Day 2 - god not here.


is the god you awaiting, based on the descriptions of the forum members?

do any have a clear description so we all can have the 'look-see' capabilities?

what is your idea of 'the boss'?

is that 'god' to you somewhere else, rather than right here?

is the god you awaiting, based on the descriptions of the forum members?

do any have a clear description so we all can have the 'look-see' capabilities?

what is your idea of 'the boss'?

is that 'god' to you somewhere else, rather than right here?
God apparently has many descriptions, depending on who you ask. Proving any one of which would be sufficient.
I'm just keeping a diary until he shows up, he's already had countless days, which makes me glad I haven't brought a ticket for this show. ;)

Day 2, downloaded Coroline, wasn't that great. No Gods either :(

I have had the pleasure of an invitation from one of our distinguished forum members for god to visit me. It is currently unknown as to what form the visitation will take, but it has been assured to me that I most certainly will know. I have also promised this forum member that I will defend any and all arguments they present thereafter as a result of the visit.

You can't know for sure that he's about without a God Detector (http://www.yo-god.com/)...

You can't know for sure that he's about without a God Detector (http://www.yo-god.com/)...

I'll need one of those, the deluxe model. Lol.

God apparently has many descriptions, depending on who you ask. Proving any one of which would be sufficient.



the trinity: the corporeal (mass), the spirit (light/energy), the transcendent (time)

these three can be combined into a mathematical frame describing how they interrelate and the transistions between them (kind of like what E=mc2 does)



I'm just keeping a diary until he shows up, he's already had countless days, which makes me glad I haven't brought a ticket for this show. ;)

don't waste your money

the HE is just a person who combined knowledge

the rest is on you (we the people)

magic is not an option; never was

the only magic there is, is that each can make a choice (rocks that can roll, by choice) and that is only real special when you notice compassionate giving (giving of personal energy for others, with no needs for the self)

Day 3 - Thought I saw god! Turned out to just be a squirrel.

Day 3 - Thought I saw god! Turned out to just be a squirrel.

What made you think it was god ?
And how did you find out it wasn't ?

http://www.brianluk.com/gallery/pictures/Squirrel.jpg

What made you think it was god ?
And how did you find out it wasn't ?

You see, it was a magic squirrel, it disappeared on one side of the tree, and reappeared on the other side! I walked round to the other side of the tree and it was doing the same there!!!! I was so sure it was god, I followed it around the tree for hours but it wouldn't do it again.

Then I realised my mistake......

You see, it was a magic squirrel, it disappeared on one side of the tree, and reappeared on the other side! I walked round to the other side of the tree and it was doing the same there!!!! I was so sure it was god, I followed it around the tree for hours but it wouldn't do it again.

Then I realised my mistake......

How did you realize your mistake ?

How did you realize your mistake ?

After several hours of hard running it suddenly dawned on me that the most likely situation was it merely disappeared out of my view as it went around the tree.

So i tested my theory by tying string to its tail and holding onto the other end. My theory was correct, but just incase I decided to shoot the little bugger anyway! I concluded either god can be killed(which seems to defy many descriptions of him), or it wasn't god.

If it was god then I'll say this much for him, he tastes like some goooood chicken.

After several hours of hard running it suddenly dawned on me that the most likely situation was it merely disappeared out of my view as it went around the tree.

So i tested my theory by tying string to its tail and holding onto the other end. My theory was correct, but just incase I decided to shoot the little bugger anyway! I concluded either god can be killed(which seems to defy many descriptions of him), or it wasn't god.

If it was god then I'll say this much for him, he tastes like some goooood chicken.
Well.. you know Jesus was God incarnate..
Perhaps the squirrel was Jesus's second coming !
And you ate him !!

What made you think it was god ?
And how did you find out it wasn't ?

http://www.brianluk.com/gallery/pictures/Squirrel.jpg


i saw one magically run up a tree and fly to another one in a giant leap

to me that was magic.

can any of you do that? (i think that is better than 'walkin on water' when i have never even seen anyone do that; unless the water was frozen)


perhaps the squirl is the messiah? Maybe you did see him and just don't know it.


how about trying this;

if the absolute of truth was to magically appear; what would you need to verify (the squirl) is Him/her/cousin it?

Day 3 - Thought I saw god! Turned out to just be a squirrel.
Maybe it was Ratatoskr (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ratatoskr).

Maybe it was Ratatoskr (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ratatoskr).

Yes, it must have been him !

Maybe it was Ratatoskr (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ratatoskr).

awesome (i love them damn coincidences)

read this then read the thread and see what is occuring (think knowledge)


In the Poetic Edda poem Grímnismál, the god Odin (disguised as Grímnir) says that Ratatoskr runs up and down Yggdrasil bringing messages between the eagle perched atop it and Níđhöggr below it:

Benjamin Thorpe translation:
Ratatösk is the squirrel named, who has run
in Yggdrasil's ash;
he from above the eagle's words must carry,
and beneath the Nidhögg repeat.[6] Henry Adams Bellows translation:
Ratatosk is the squirrel who there shall run
On the ash-tree Yggdrasil;
From above the words of the eagle he bears,
And tells them to Nithhogg beneath.[7]

In the Prose Edda book Gylfaginning, Ratatoskr is attested in chapter 16. In the chapter, Gangleri (described as king Gylfi in disguise) asks High what other notable facts there are to know about Yggdrasil. High's account agrees with the Grímnismál attestation but he adds that the messages are slanderous gossip:

'There is much to be told. An eagle sits at the top of the ash, and it has knowledge of many things. Between its eyes sits the hawk called Vedrfolnir [...]. The squirrel called Ratatosk [...] runs up and down the ash. He tells slanderous gossip, provoking the eagle and Nidhogg.'

gotta love it: as it is just "another day at the orafice"

Today I swatted a wasp out of the air and it landed near some ants who started tearing it apart and moving it into their colony. The all seemed to smile and wave at me in appreciation.

Was this a sign of god?

Today I swatted a wasp out of the air and it landed near some ants who started tearing it apart and moving it into their colony. The all seemed to smile and wave at me in appreciation.

Was this a sign of god?

who knows

how about having some fun:

today, i swatted an idiot for blowing out hot air, while the rest of the forum watched how ignorance is torn apart and now capable of smashing their own idiots.

i bet any can smile when having the depth to comprehend

would that put a smile on your face; to be capable?

***miracle alert***

lori's engaged to the man of her idealistic dreams after resigning to live alone for the rest of her life.

god loves a good challenge.

i'm so...

happy.

and grateful.

pretty blown away actually.

***miracle alert***

lori's engaged to the man of her idealistic dreams after resigning to live alone for the rest of her life.

god loves a good challenge.

i'm so...

happy.

and grateful.

pretty blown away actually.


how does ***miracle alert*** fit with your philosophy of



i learn from god and life, and i do not believe in magic.

i consider this man and marriage a gift from god.
miracles are not magic, just unexpected
everything's a miracle...nothing is a miracle.
i guess it's all just relative to what you expect.
and i didn't find this man in a book. i'm living the dream...

Lori, my congratulations ! :)

How does he feel about your conversations with god ?

I have had the pleasure of an invitation from one of our distinguished forum members for god to visit me. It is currently unknown as to what form the visitation will take, but it has been assured to me that I most certainly will know. I have also promised this forum member that I will defend any and all arguments they present thereafter as a result of the visit.

Of course, at that point, I will be a theist and a believer in god.

So, from time to time, I'll provide any unusual events that may have happened to me in order to discuss whether or not the event was the visitation. I'm hoping our distinguished forum member will chime in when the time is ripe.

At this time, there is nothing unusual to report, other than a small horse singing, "Hard Days Night" in a German accent.

i agree with that member.
erm, but did he warn you, or you considered the possibility, that maybe when such "visit" happens, which removes all doubt, will also remove all chance or choice, and you won't be able to report it?

if you considered it, or he warned you, i think you're ready to take the chances, which of course are zero, because you won't embark on such dangerous dare or wager if such dreadful possibility was anything but zero.



also, you won't think much of this post of mine because you must have already discovered that what i'm trying to do here is present a possibility then base on it an argument to "pressure" you to believe in something before evidence for it is presented, how dishonest of me.

and how smart of you.

Lori, my congratulations ! :)

How does he feel about your conversations with god ?

real good. he talks to god too. :)

thank you enmos. XO

real good. he talks to god too. :)

thank you enmos. XO

In the same way ?

In the same way ?

yep.

i consider this man and marriage a gift from god. just as each breath is; but we often take it for granted

this one just so happens to fit a personal need; so it excited you on many fronts (as the appreciation is noted, also keep the idea on balance (both sides will unfold over time; don't go tooooo high, the fall often hurts)




miracles are not magic, just unexpected thanks for clarifying what you define as a miracle; now it is easier to see why OUR interpretations vary

(this is how dialogue ensues; each learn a bit from the others on what they mean)


everything's a miracle...nothing is a miracle. exactly!



i guess it's all just relative to what you expect. and that is where suffering lives; predeterminations (see the eatern folk; they try to teach a mind how to remove predeterminations/expectations/loss-gain of the suffering mind)



and i didn't find this man in a book. that interaction was already in process well before you knew it was coming

be appreciative but also keep the eyes open for the lessons (good or bad)

remember; do not fib to yourself (hide something of difference between you) just to keep the utter parts close (we both know, them fibs (to ourselves) will always bite us in the butt later)



i'm living the dream...

we all are

knowing how to appreciate each breath is how to know that

or


Bliss can be experienced by appreciating every moment.

yep.
Ok.. who would have thought ;)


By the way, god hasn't contacted me yet. What do I do ?

we've actually been discussing that quite a bit...living in the moment, and appreciating it for all it's worth. not being careless, but not dwelling in the past, or trying to predict the future. i think that's where a lot of pain and frustration lie...in the past and in fear.

Ok.. who would have thought ;)


By the way, god hasn't contacted me yet. What do I do ?

wait. look. expect. be open. open wide...

wait. look. expect. be open. open wide...

Look for what ?
Expect what ?

Ok.. who would have thought ;)


By the way, god hasn't contacted me yet. What do I do ?
if you haven't experienced (appreciated) existence by now

perhaps go jump in a lake!

(i couldn't help it)

(eg.. forgiveness is not my best trait; and if you look around, nor is it to the world)

we've actually been discussing that quite a bit...living in the moment, and appreciating it for all it's worth. not being careless, but not dwelling in the past, or trying to predict the future. i think that's where a lot of pain and frustration lie...in the past and in fear.


and to note what Enmos is asking; he wants to know what to expect

that is what many many most every human being on earth wants to know

life


so they read, they try and then some just give up and find what makes them happy


but how many actually know life?

what it is, how it works and what to expect???

Look for what ?
Expect what ?

i don't know...but you will. it's all about you man.

and to note what Enmos is asking; he wants to know what to expect

that is what many many most every human being on earth wants to know

life


so they read, they try and then some just give up and find what makes them happy


but how many actually know life?

what it is, how it works and what to expect???

expect the unexpected. but it will make sense.

i don't know...but you will. it's all about you man.

How so ? Isn't it about god ?

expect the unexpected. but it will make sense.

Kindly tell Bishady to fuck off. Thanks!

I did not ask what to expect from life, I asked what to expect when god contacts me.

How so ? Isn't it about god ?

no not really...it's about you. i think that's what makes it seem scary. but it's not scary. god is like the perfect parent. unconditional love is serious in that you can't escape it. the consequences of realizing god are enormous, but god isn't surprised by himself, or by you. so...it's all about you enmos.

no not really...it's about you. i think that's what makes it seem scary. but it's not scary. god is like the perfect parent. unconditional love is serious in that you can't escape it. the consequences of realizing god are enormous, but god isn't surprised by himself, or by you. so...it's all about you enmos.

God isn't me, is he ? It's about god making himself known. I can't make him show himself, he can.

expect the unexpected. but it will make sense.

yu say that but then share in another frame that the unexpected is a miracle

Kindly tell Bishady to fuck off. Thanks!

I did not ask what to expect from life, I asked what to expect when god contacts me.

hee, hee, hee. i don't have enough tact for that i don't think, but i'm trying.

you can expect your life to make sense in a way it never has before. you can expect feeling like you're developing a new pair of eyes (perception). things will seem so obvious and you'll wonder why it wasn't before. you can expect him to use the world around you to enlighten and develope you...to heal you. you can expect to be humbled. you will have to look deep inside. you will be broken (of the flesh), and birthed (of the spirit). you will find the capability to be invincible and fearless and loving. you will find peace even in times of hardship. and ultimately, you will find the freedom to be yourself.

Kindly tell Bishady to fuck off. Thanks!

I did not ask what to expect from life, I asked what to expect when god contacts me.


"expect the unexpected" is not an answer

what to expect is that ONE day mankind will comprehend itself (each person can understand)

there is no such thing as an individual called 'god' separate from us, anywhere in existence, except as created by the interpretations and beliefs of mankind

God isn't me, is he ? It's about god making himself known. I can't make him show himself, he can.

right, right...but god's focus is all about you. he'll blow your mind but it won't be in an attempt to bedazzle you with his greatness for no reason. he's just going to show you undoubtedly who he is. that way, you can trust him enough to want a relationship with him (it) (?).

hee, hee, hee. i don't have enough tact for that i don't think, but i'm trying.
You don't need any tact for that. Just say: "Bishady, FUCK OFF!"
See ? It's easy :p


you can expect your life to make sense in a way it never has before. you can expect feeling like you're developing a new pair of eyes (perception). things will seem so obvious and you'll wonder why it wasn't before. you can expect him to use the world around you to enlighten and develope you...to heal you. you can expect to be humbled. you will have to look deep inside. you will be broken (of the flesh), and birthed (of the spirit). you will find the capability to be invincible and fearless and loving. you will find peace even in times of hardship. and ultimately, you will find the freedom to be yourself.
How do I know it was god arranging things ?
And I already am myself..

hee, hee, hee. i don't have enough tact for that i don't think, but i'm trying. OK....




you can expect your life to make sense in a way it never has before. just as claimed within most every religion on earth


what to expect is that ONE day mankind will comprehend itself (each person can understand)



Lori,

no wonder the hammer hangs over your head

yu say that but then share in another frame that the unexpected is a miracle

so? miracles can't make sense??? miracles make a hell of a lot more sense than the normal bullshit the majority of humans spend their time focused on every day.

"expect the unexpected" is not an answer

what to expect is that ONE day mankind will comprehend itself (each person can understand)

there is no such thing as an individual called 'god' separate from us, anywhere in existence, except as created by the interpretations and beliefs of mankind

i have never said that god is an individual that is separate from us. i have said the exact opposite actually.

you're just arguing to argue now. :bugeye:

he's just going to show you undoubtedly who he is. that way, you can trust him enough to want a relationship with him (it) (?).
Undoubtedly ? So no matter how he chooses to do it, it will be undeniable. Ok, works for me.
What time frame are we looking at ? Within a month, year, decade ?

so? miracles can't make sense??? miracles make a hell of a lot more sense than the normal bullshit the majority of humans spend their time focused on every day.

and entanglement is how all of us can comprehend how we are all a part of existence

not the bullshit that some dude will magicallly unexpectly come into your home and magically miraculously make you understand

that is all bullshit


either people learn and work at reality, maintaining the integrity of compassion for others, by what you share as true; then the unevolved continue to dwell in ignorance

You don't need any tact for that. Just say: "Bishady, FUCK OFF!"
See ? It's easy :p


How do I know it was god arranging things ?
And I already am myself..

you'll know that what is presented is beyond you or mankind. it won't be an intellectual endeavor. you'll know. you won't be able to deny it...that's the whole point.

i think that we all have a lot of power in us that we don't understand, and a relationship with god fosters that power and allows us to be who we really are, not just what society tells us we are. that power is god. he gives us to us, but it's like we're blind to it until he shows us what we're truly capable of.

Undoubtedly ? So no matter how he chooses to do it, it will be undeniable. Ok, works for me.
What time frame are we looking at ? Within a month, year, decade ?

no time frame. sorry. :(

Undoubtedly ? So no matter how he chooses to do it, it will be undeniable. Ok, works for me.

enmos;

does life abuse entropy?



What time frame are we looking at ? Within a month, year, decade ?

right now

and entanglement is how all of us can comprehend how we are all a part of existence

not the bullshit that some dude will magicallly unexpectly come into your home and magically miraculously make you understand

that is all bullshit


either people learn and work at reality, maintaining the integrity of compassion for others, by what you share as true; then the unevolved continue to dwell in ignorance

god is not a dude, and nothing is magic. (how many times now? is anyone counting?)

you'll know that what is presented is beyond you or mankind. it won't be an intellectual endeavor. you'll know. you won't be able to deny it...that's the whole point.

i think that we all have a lot of power in us that we don't understand, and a relationship with god fosters that power and allows us to be who we really are, not just what society tells us we are. that power is god. he gives us to us, but it's like we're blind to it until he shows us what we're truly capable of.

Do you see god as separate from existence/reality/universe ?

no time frame. sorry. :(

That's no good. How do I know he didn't forget to contact me ?
What if I die before the date he 'planned' to contact me ?

god is not a dude, and nothing is magic. (how many times now? is anyone counting?)

ok then

what makes you 'beep' and then understand?


meaning; if that happened to you, then to ask you if light is the life of mass, you would know already

Do you see god as separate from existence/reality/universe ?

no, i see god as the law that is integrated into and governs existence/reality/universe. but more than that...an intelligence...a spirit.

That's no good. How do I know he didn't forget to contact me ?
What if I die before the date he 'planned' to contact me ?

god is perfect and knows all about you. more than you know yourself. trust that if god is in fact god, that he can handle this. otherwise, he's not really worth knowing i would say. :shrug:

no, i see god as the law that is integrated into and governs existence/reality/universe. but more than that...an intelligence...a spirit.

So he is outside existence/reality/universe ?

ok then

what makes you 'beep' and then understand?


meaning; if that happened to you, then to ask you if light is the life of mass, you would know already

you know bishadi, no offense but...i don't really give a shit about mass as an abstract concept, or the science behind life. i care about living. i don't need to know how to explain everything. i need to know how to experience life in a way full of power and grace and knowledge. not knowledge of the mechanics necessarily, but knowledge of love. i don't want to live my life with my face in a book trying to prove something. i want to love people.

Day 11. Nothing. Nada. Ziltch.

It's not looking good for that members claim of talking with gods.

god is perfect and knows all about you. more than you know yourself. trust that if god is in fact god, that he can handle this. otherwise, he's not really worth knowing i would say. :shrug:

I don't know that he's worth knowing now..
And 'perfect' is subjective.

***miracle alert***

lori's engaged to the man of her idealistic dreams after resigning to live alone for the rest of her life.

god loves a good challenge.

i'm so...

happy.

and grateful.

pretty blown away actually.

Why would say it's a miracle. God has gone against your wishes to live alone. Clearly, your god is defying you.

i want to love people.

Why ?

i agree with that member.
erm, but did he warn you, or you considered the possibility, that maybe when such "visit" happens, which removes all doubt, will also remove all chance or choice, and you won't be able to report it?

if you considered it, or he warned you, i think you're ready to take the chances, which of course are zero, because you won't embark on such dangerous dare or wager if such dreadful possibility was anything but zero.



also, you won't think much of this post of mine because you must have already discovered that what i'm trying to do here is present a possibility then base on it an argument to "pressure" you to believe in something before evidence for it is presented, how dishonest of me.

and how smart of you.

:crazy:

So he is outside existence/reality/universe ?

no, inside...integrated into everything.

I don't know that he's worth knowing now..
And 'perfect' is subjective.

no it's not...it's like math. it's law.

no, inside...integrated into everything.

Did he create existence/reality/universe ?

no it's not...it's like math. it's law.

Are you comparing god to math ?

Why ?

this is a strange question. why not?

it's the right thing to do. it's the answer.

Are you comparing god to math ?

i think that if you call god the creator, that everything is created according to law, so god is law. but more than that...

this is a strange question. why not?

it's the right thing to do. it's the answer.

The right thing ? Says who ? I thought people we supposed to be themselves ?

If you don't already love people, what's your reason ?
If you do already love people, why are you wanting ?

i think that if you call god the creator, that everything is created according to law, so god is law. but more than that...

Then he is outside existence/reality/universe.

you know bishadi, no offense but...i don't really give a shit about mass as an abstract concept, or the science behind life.

you need to know what food to eat (mass/energy) but are back to recoiling because you are having to face the truth of how little you really know




i care about living. if you did not know what life is (abortion) then you will remain hammered into the wall

you are not claiming the good of life, nor how to live or what life is

you are trying to get people to believe you talk to god and he gave you all this 'gifts' (even a new man-toy) but cannot define any of it to any others, while claiming you are of understanding

lori, you are full of shit and it bugs you (i am getting dizzie again, smashing your head in the wall)


i don't need to know how to explain everything.

then if you are confering on life and what 'report' you have, then you best be 'splaining' or your fibs are maintaining your suffering


i need to know how to experience life in a way full of power and grace and knowledge.

what power?


what power did your god give you? We can already see the power of BS and you sling it tough, but what POWER did your god give you, when a simple man walks into your life and you claim 'it's a miracle'?


not knowledge of the mechanics necessarily, but knowledge of love. love is definable darling; it aint magic either

the mechanics are the math; who needs math to live?

but the principles are varified by the math, and what you are learning are them priniciples (of what is life?............... all based on 'light')


i don't want to live my life with my face in a book trying to prove something. i want to love people.

to love us, any of us, then your responsibility to every word of articulation should have its merit, that we can all experience (be true to the absolute best of your whole existence)

i know i am learning and why i know the words often confuse (are esoteric) but be certain, when drilled down to the last word (the math) each item i have posted will and does come out

Why would say it's a miracle. God has gone against your wishes to live alone. Clearly, your god is defying you.

it was definitely not my wish to live alone. i just wasn't willing to settle for a life and a love...a marriage...that was less than an ideal THAT GOD CONVINCED ME WAS POSSIBLE. i just didn't expect to realize that in my life. i kind of thought of it as my job to stand for it regardless. that somehow it would make a difference. i just didn't expect it to make a difference that would be realized in this way (so personally).

god does surprise me. if you define "defy" as blowing my expectations out of the water (pleasantly).

The right thing ? Says who ? I thought people we supposed to be themselves ?

If you don't already love people, what's your reason ?
If you do already love people, why are you wanting ?

how is loving not being yourself? i think we are covered in lies that allow us to hate and live in suffering.

i do love people, and i want to perpetuate that power as much as possible.

how is loving not being yourself? i think we are covered in lies that allow us to hate and live in suffering.
People are what they are and if you change them you well.. change them.


i do love people, and i want to perpetuate that power as much as possible.
Why ? Are you afraid of losing it ?

Then he is outside existence/reality/universe.

i don't understand your reasoning here. the law is embedded in life and the functionality of everything. god also has a spirit that communicates with all of it, or is a part of all of it. that's why i hear his voice (his spirit inside me).

People are what they are and if you change them you well.. change them.


Why ? Are you afraid of losing it ?

you can change your perception and still be who you are. the more love you have and give, the more power you instill, the more freedom you achieve. it changes you and the world, but you become who you really are, minus the lies that inhibit you.

no, i'm not afraid of losing it. i just want to use it.

i don't understand your reasoning here. the law is embedded in life and the functionality of everything. god also has a spirit that communicates with all of it, or is a part of all of it. that's why i hear his voice (his spirit inside me).

Ok, what law are you talking about ? Not the laws of physics, right ?

you can change your perception and still be who you are. the more love you have and give, the more power you instill, the more freedom you achieve. it changes you and the world, but you become who you really are, minus the lies that inhibit you.

no, i'm not afraid of losing it. i just want to use it.

If someone cuts a chunk out of your brain he's probably going to change who you are.
I am myself now and I don't want a lobotomy.

you need to know what food to eat (mass/energy) but are back to recoiling because you are having to face the truth of how little you really know

if you did not know what life is (abortion) then you will remain hammered into the wall

you are not claiming the good of life, nor how to live or what life is

you are trying to get people to believe you talk to god and he gave you all this 'gifts' (even a new man-toy) but cannot define any of it to any others, while claiming you are of understanding

lori, you are full of shit and it bugs you (i am getting dizzie again, smashing your head in the wall)



then if you are confering on life and what 'report' you have, then you best be 'splaining' or your fibs are maintaining your suffering



what power?


what power did your god give you? We can already see the power of BS and you sling it tough, but what POWER did your god give you, when a simple man walks into your life and you claim 'it's a miracle'?

love is definable darling; it aint magic either

the mechanics are the math; who needs math to live?

but the principles are varified by the math, and what you are learning are them priniciples (of what is life?............... all based on 'light')



to love us, any of us, then your responsibility to every word of articulation should have its merit, that we can all experience (be true to the absolute best of your whole existence)

i know i am learning and why i know the words often confuse (are esoteric) but be certain, when drilled down to the last word (the math) each item i have posted will and does come out


bishadi,

SHUT UP.

the people i love feel the power.

go read another book why don't you. we'll all be expecting you to ignore my request and come back with some more sanctimonious preaching when you're done.

Ok, what law are you talking about ? Not the laws of physics, right ?

yes...all of them...physics, biology, chemistry...i think there are spiritual laws as well. things science doesn't really study.

if someone cuts a chunk out of your brain he's probably going to change who you are.
I am myself now and i don't want a lobotomy.

what?!?!?!

yes...all of them...physics, biology, chemistry...i think there are spiritual laws as well. things science doesn't really study.
So did god create these law or is god these laws ?

what?!?!?!
You say that god will change me so I will be my real self.
Isn't that what they told patients that would be lobotomized ? Cut out the flaws.. no thank you, my flaws are a part of me.

So did god create these law or is god these laws ?

god is the law...that is part of god. that's how i reconcile omnipotence and omniscience and creation.

god is the law...that is part of god. that's how i reconcile omnipotence and omniscience and creation.

So what did he create ?

You say that god will change me so I will be my real self.
Isn't that what they told patients that would be lobotomized ? Cut out the flaws.. no thank you, my flaws are a part of me.

no...no cutting. everything is willfull on your part. any changes are through understanding, not surgery.

no...no cutting. everything is willfull on your part. any changes are through understanding, not surgery.

I know it's not surgery.. sigh.. lol

I know it's not surgery.. sigh.. lol

if you willingly reject something that you understand is harmful, is that the equivalent of a lobotomy?

if you willingly reject something that you understand is harmful, is that the equivalent of a lobotomy?

I don't understand where god comes into that..
What you are describing sounds like self-improvement.

:crazy:

:roflmao:

yeah someone's shaking the jar:p

:crazy:So? did God show up yet?

OR, is it that the will to write the words YES have been removed from you as you are now God's bitch? You now realize to your horror there is a God and it's the all powerful evil one who flooded the world and killed innocent women and children - and now It's has It's eye on you and it wants to play! :eek:


Or, God didn't show up?


How do we know that God didn't really show up and you are seriously not able to report it to us? Hmmmmm??? :p

I don't understand where god comes into that..
What you are describing sounds like self-improvement.

Yeah man, god will put you through the fire and you'll come out like a diamond if that's what you want. God gave me answers I couldn't find in this world or on my own. It seems he knows me better than I know myself, so the more I get to know god the more I get to know me. Its extremely symbiotic. Its like as you become one with god, you become yourself. Its wierd. But you know this world is full of lies that steal our identities and our lives.

It is now day 4,927,500,000,000 after the start of the universe.

Nothing to report.

I am wondering why God would want to visit you?

Unless it was as a blessing to the one who proposed this to you?

You seem to have an attitude towards God similar to the ones mentioned in the scripture below.

Matthew 16
1 Then the Pharisees and Sadducees came, and testing Him asked that He would show them a sign from heaven. 2 He answered and said to them, “When it is evening you say, ‘It will be fair weather, for the sky is red’; 3 and in the morning, ‘It will be foul weather today, for the sky is red and threatening.’ Hypocrites! You know how to discern the face of the sky, but you cannot discern the signs of the times. 4 A wicked and adulterous generation seeks after a sign, and no sign shall be given to it except the sign of the prophet Jonah.” And He left them and departed.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

hee, hee, hee. i don't have enough tact for that i don't think, but i'm trying.

you can expect your life to make sense in a way it never has before. you can expect feeling like you're developing a new pair of eyes (perception). things will seem so obvious and you'll wonder why it wasn't before. you can expect him to use the world around you to enlighten and develope you...to heal you. you can expect to be humbled. you will have to look deep inside. you will be broken (of the flesh), and birthed (of the spirit). you will find the capability to be invincible and fearless and loving. you will find peace even in times of hardship. and ultimately, you will find the freedom to be yourself.

Wow :) From my experiances i think God has established a relationship with you.

I got to be cautious, I have been wrong about others before, being only human myslef. lol

God's Grace is like the old song states. Amazing. Isn't it.

Once again as i said before my hope is for you to be with God in eternity Lori.



All Praise The Ancient Of Days

not the bullshit that some dude will magicallly unexpectly come into your home and magically miraculously make you understand

that is all bullshit


either people learn and work at reality, maintaining the integrity of compassion for others, by what you share as true; then the unevolved continue to dwell in ignorance

Ohhh the arrogance of the pompous who believe they are superior to the "unevolved". Who think that they can work God out by their own efforts.

I detect an air of desperation and fear in your posting in this thread Bishadi. Your almost ranting now.

Truly if there is anything of knowledge of God that is worthy it could only ever come to a person if God revels it to them, it is miraculous indeed.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

The right thing ? Says who ? I thought people we supposed to be themselves ?

If you don't already love people, what's your reason ?

Pride, greed, arrogance, fear, envy, vanity. I guess you could add a few more there.


If you do already love people, why are you wanting ?

Because deep down we want to. Because deep down we know that all those other emotions that get in the way and frustrate your desire to be loving are wrong.

One has to ask oneself. What do i desire?

Of cource, God already knows us more then we know ourselves.



All Praise The Ancient Of Days

PS: I am not answering for Lori, but for myself.

You say that god will change me so I will be my real self.
Isn't that what they told patients that would be lobotomized ? Cut out the flaws.. no thank you, my flaws are a part of me.

Do you love your flaws?

Who are you really?

Do you know?

Are these flaws an integral part of You? Or are they the weeping infected wounds that have prevented you from being yourself in your life?

Have you become so accustomed to carrying these wounds that you simply cannot face their removal through fear of the unknown. Who will i be after they have been lifted from me?



All Praise The Ancient of Days

Yeah man, god will put you through the fire and you'll come out like a diamond if that's what you want. God gave me answers I couldn't find in this world or on my own. It seems he knows me better than I know myself, so the more I get to know god the more I get to know me. Its extremely symbiotic. Its like as you become one with god, you become yourself. Its wierd. But you know this world is full of lies that steal our identities and our lives.

But you don't get it. I AM myself now, ain't I ?

Also, are you saying that you are now perfect ?

PS: I am not answering for Lori, but for myself.
Ok, noted :)


Pride, greed, arrogance, fear, envy, vanity. I guess you could add a few more there.
Is that why you want to love people ??


Because deep down we want to. Because deep down we know that all those other emotions that get in the way and frustrate your desire to be loving are wrong.

One has to ask oneself. What do i desire?
If you already have it, you can stop wanting for it.
I wanted a particular new car. I bought it. Now I'm not wanting it anymore because I already have it.


Of cource, God already knows us more then we know ourselves.
That one is wasted on me.

Do you love your flaws?

Who are you really?

Do you know?

Are these flaws an integral part of You? Or are they the weeping infected wounds that have prevented you from being yourself in your life?

Have you become so accustomed to carrying these wounds that you simply cannot face their removal through fear of the unknown. Who will i be after they have been lifted from me?
In a way I love my flaws because they are a result of what defines me.
I am not perfect and I'm not striving for perfection either because that will be a ghost hunt. Perfection doesn't exist. Instead, I'm striving to be the best I can be.

Wow :) From my experiances i think God has established a relationship with you.

I got to be cautious, I have been wrong about others before, being only human myslef. lol

God's Grace is like the old song states. Amazing. Isn't it.

Once again as i said before my hope is for you to be with God in eternity Lori.



All Praise The Ancient Of Days

there's no doubt about that.

Adstar,

where the hell have you been man?!?!?! :confused:

i know you've heard me out here..."i know god, i know god, i know god!"

did you think i was joking? lol

But you don't get it. I AM myself now, ain't I ?

Also, are you saying that you are now perfect ?

you will always be yourself, but i'm pretty sure you would agree with me that introspection often leads to revelation. and that the world is full of lies. this society, and even our parents, tell us who we are and who we should be and that a lot of it is bullshit.

i'm telling you, there is a relatively untapped power in you. it's fucking cool.

rise above all this bullshit. help me anihalate it. :)

Day 11. Nothing. Nada. Ziltch.

It's not looking good for that members claim of talking with gods.

Maybe you're not a priority. :p

god does surprise me. if you define "defy" as blowing my expectations out of the water (pleasantly).

Your request for god to visit me goes unheard. Perhaps he's confused?

Where is he, Lori? How long do I have to wait?

Maybe you're not a priority. :p

You could be right, what with all the holy wars he's conducting right now.

Your request for god to visit me goes unheard. Perhaps he's confused?

Where is he, Lori? How long do I have to wait?

god listens to me homey g, don't you worry. be patient.

god's in your face by the way. would it kill you to reach out? why i gotta do every damn thing?

You could be right, what with all the holy wars he's conducting right now.

yeah you wish you weren't a priority.

god listens to me homey g, don't you worry. be patient.

I am being very patient. It's now coming on 2 weeks. Will it be 2 months, 2 years, 2 millennium??


god's in your face by the way. would it kill you to reach out? why i gotta do every damn thing?

No, there's nothing "in my face" right now, Lori. If I reach out, I'm grasping at air.

I am being very patient. It's now coming on 2 weeks. Will it be 2 months, 2 years, 2 millennium??



No, there's nothing "in my face" right now, Lori. If I reach out, I'm grasping at air.

is this a joke to you Q?

if not, would you pray too? i did, now you. that's fair right? i want you to get sincere with god. if he's not there, well then that's a few minutes of your time you'll never get back. but if he is, then it'll be worth it, don't you think? are you sincere?

is this a joke to you Q?

if not, would you pray too? i did, now you. that's fair right? i want you to get sincere with god. if he's not there, well then that's a few minutes of your time you'll never get back. but if he is, then it'll be worth it, don't you think? are you sincere?

Lori, we've been through all this. Either your god is going to visit me or he isn't? Since your god is apparently all powerful, I'm sure he'll know how to confirm his presence to me.

Now, where is he?

Lori, we've been through all this. Either your god is going to visit me or he isn't? Since your god is apparently all powerful, I'm sure he'll know how to confirm his presence to me.

Now, where is he?

you're avoiding my question and request. :mad:

you're avoiding my question and request. :mad:

Yes, I am sincere, I already told you that. However, it has nothing to do with sincerity and everything to do with your god producing himself.

If your god is so powerful, there is nothing I can do to stop him from visiting me.

You said you made the request, so where is he?

Yes, I am sincere, I already told you that. However, it has nothing to do with sincerity and everything to do with your god producing himself.

If your god is so powerful, there is nothing I can do to stop him from visiting me.

You said you made the request, so where is he?

would you pray too? would you ask him too please? he's around...

(Q) wouldn't recognise God if He bit him on his ass.

(Q) wouldn't recognise God if He bit him on his ass.

well then i guess god will have to try something else with Q.

you will always be yourself, but i'm pretty sure you would agree with me that introspection often leads to revelation. and that the world is full of lies. this society, and even our parents, tell us who we are and who we should be and that a lot of it is bullshit.

i'm telling you, there is a relatively untapped power in you. it's fucking cool.

rise above all this bullshit. help me anihalate it. :)

So people are liars, assholes and hypocrites.. why did God even bother making us ?

You nicely avoided answering this question, by the way:
"Also, are you saying that you are now perfect ?"

god's in your face by the way. would it kill you to reach out? why i gotta do every damn thing?

Not you, God.
Surely it wouldn't be too much trouble for him to make himself known..

(Q) wouldn't recognise God if He bit him on his ass.

Who's fault would that be ?

Why does it have to be anyone's fault?

I am being very patient. It's now coming on 2 weeks. Will it be 2 months, 2 years, 2 millennium??.

Do you not believe in miracles ?. It can be tonight. Nevertheless....I am waiting too....:) . Science believes in miracles too .... ;) .

Why does it have to be anyone's fault?

God made us remember ?
If God shows himself to Q with the purpose of making himself known, and Q doesn't recognize him, God clearly screwed up somewhere.

So people are liars, assholes and hypocrites.. why did God even bother making us ?

You nicely avoided answering this question, by the way:
"Also, are you saying that you are now perfect ?"

i didn't mean to avoid your question. no, i'm not perfect. you know i believe in perfection, but not without a genetic intervention first.

and enmos, you don't like the ills of humanity anymore than i do. god made us for communion with him and each other. something that we are all falling short of right now. that doesn't mean forever. right now, we're supposed to be learning the difference. right?

Not you, God.
Surely it wouldn't be too much trouble for him to make himself known..

if that's what you want, then god will. i truly believe that enmos.

that's why i want Q to make sure that's what he wants. to confirm that...

no offense Q. i just really want this for you both. i just wonder if what i want for you trumps what you want for you for vice versa. i want to make sure we're all on the same page.

i didn't mean to avoid your question. no, i'm not perfect. you know i believe in perfection, but not without a genetic intervention first.
But meeting god will make my flaws go away, you said. A person with no flaws would be perfect, right ?


and enmos, you don't like the ills of humanity anymore than i do. god made us for communion with him and each other. something that we are all falling short of right now. that doesn't mean forever. right now, we're supposed to be learning the difference. right?
Why did he make us like this then ? He apparently wants perfect humans.. he could have made us perfect. He can make us understand 'the difference' right now if he wanted too. What's with the sadism ? :mad:

God made us remember ?
If God shows himself to Q with the purpose of making himself known, and Q doesn't recognize him, God clearly screwed up somewhere.

Maybe he provided the tools and expected you to do your own homework.

Maybe he provided the tools and expected you to do your own homework.

Omniscience just went out the window..

But meeting god will make my flaws go away, you said. A person with no flaws would be perfect, right ?

development is one thing...perfection another. you can learn without being a perfect person. to me, perfection = sinless = immortal.



Why did he make us like this then ? He apparently wants perfect humans.. he could have made us perfect. He can make us understand 'the difference' right now if he wanted too. What's with the sadism ? :mad:

so we can learn the difference. god doesn't want us to commune with him and to love because we're forced to, and abide by laws we don't understand. god wants us to do this voluntarily, because it's what we want, because we know the difference. remember in the garden, the fall of man was brought about by our desire to know good and evil. now we know...

or do we?

some people refuse to see the most obvious things. i have found a clarity of sight and of vision with god that i could not have achieved on my own. i also have hope to overcome evil and to achieve eternal life in communion with him.

Not at all, just because I know how to teach you and expect you to study and learn, I can still recognise that you won't. Probably I could strike you dead and this would provide a good impetus, but if I had to break the law everytime I had an idiot for a student, there wouldn't be much of a point in the exercise.

so we can learn the difference. god doesn't want us to commune with him and to love because we're forced to, and abide by laws we don't understand. god wants us to do this voluntarily, because it's what we want, because we know the difference. remember in the garden, the fall of man was brought about by our desire to know good and evil. now we know...

or do we?
And we aren't forced now ? If we don't believe in god we''ll just burn in hell.
So he doesn't want for us to be forced to live in peace in heaven, instead he figures that we're better off burning in hell ??


some people refuse to see the most obvious things. i have found a clarity of sight and of vision with god that i could not have achieved on my own. i also have hope to overcome evil and to achieve eternal life in communion with him.
If some people cannot recognize god, who's fault is that ? Is he going to fix this fault ?

Not at all, just because I know how to teach you and expect you to study and learn, I can still recognise that you won't. Probably I could strike you dead and this would provide a good impetus, but if I had to break the law everytime I had an idiot for a student, there wouldn't be much of a point in the exercise.

The analogy doesn't fit. God MADE us, and just so you know God is infallible, so he purposely made some of us so we wouldn't recognize him.
Yet, if we don't recognize him before death, we'll burn in hell for it.
Is God a sadist ?

And we aren't forced now ? If we don't believe in god we''ll just burn in hell.
So he doesn't want for us to be forced to live in peace in heaven, instead he figures that we're better off burning in hell ??

this is the way i see it...

if you were to extract all of the good from evil in this world, and separate the two entirely...you would have heaven and hell. so now, you have a little taste of heaven and a little taste of hell. what do you choose? what do you want?



If some people cannot recognize god, who's fault is that ? Is he going to fix this fault ?

it's not about an aptitude. it's about a desire. we're not talking about some not being capable, but some not wanting to know. if you want to know then you WILL know. you don't decide how or when, but you do decide if that's a thing you're willing to face if that truth presents itself. god won't have some problem making himself known to you. with me, it was a progression, not one overwhelming event that knocked my socks off. little things that added up in time, and made me seek more and more. as i sought more, i got more, until i couldn't deny it anymore. THEN he put the whammy on my ass.

I have had the pleasure of an invitation from one of our distinguished forum members for god to visit me. It is currently unknown as to what form the visitation will take, but it has been assured to me that I most certainly will know. I have also promised this forum member that I will defend any and all arguments they present thereafter as a result of the visit.

Of course, at that point, I will be a theist and a believer in god.

So, from time to time, I'll provide any unusual events that may have happened to me in order to discuss whether or not the event was the visitation. I'm hoping our distinguished forum member will chime in when the time is ripe.

At this time, there is nothing unusual to report, other than a small horse singing, "Hard Days Night" in a German accent.

Heh, I think you're off by a couple thousand years...

God seems reluctant to make personal visitations of late.

this is the way i see it...

if you were to extract all of the good from evil in this world, and separate the two entirely...you would have heaven and hell. so now, you have a little taste of heaven and a little taste of hell. what do you choose? what do you want?
When you say world do you really mean humankind ? Because I don't see anything wrong with the world other than that there are humans on it.


it's not about an aptitude. it's about a desire. we're not talking about some not being capable, but some not wanting to know. if you want to know then you WILL know. you don't decide how or when, but you do decide if that's a thing you're willing to face if that truth presents itself. god won't have some problem making himself known to you. with me, it was a progression, not one overwhelming event that knocked my socks off. little things that added up in time, and made me seek more and more. as i sought more, i got more, until i couldn't deny it anymore. THEN he put the whammy on my ass.
It doesn't matter, God made us. God is omniscient so he knew beforehand some people would have no desire to get to know him.
He created us this way on purpose while he could have created us differently so that we'd want to know.

When you say world do you really mean humankind ? Because I don't see anything wrong with the world other than that there are humans on it.

Yes, that's what I mean.



It doesn't matter, God made us. God is omniscient so he knew beforehand some people would have no desire to get to know him.
He created us this way on purpose while he could have created us differently so that we'd want to know.

If you had the means and opportunity, would you ever want to force someone to love you or want to know you or commune with you?

there's no doubt about that.

Adstar,

where the hell have you been man?!?!?! :confused:

I have been here for years. Didn't you see me? :confused:


i know you've heard me out here..."i know god, i know god, i know god!"

did you think i was joking? lol

Well know God to a certain extent, as i know God to a certain extent. We are both his works in progress i guess.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

Originally Posted by AdstarPride, greed, arrogance, fear, envy, vanity. I guess you could add a few more there. ”


Posted by Enmos
Is that why you want to love people ??

No i said these are some of the things that we have within ourselves that get in the way of us loving others.


Originally Posted by AdstarBecause deep down we want to. Because deep down we know that all those other emotions that get in the way and frustrate your desire to be loving are wrong.One has to ask oneself. What do i desire? ”


Posted by Enmos
If you already have it, you can stop wanting for it.
I wanted a particular new car. I bought it. Now I'm not wanting it anymore because I already have it.

It's not about me wanting it, it is about me wanting you to have it. Its about God wanting you to have it. I don't come here posting over these years to get something, I came here to give something. :)


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

no offense Q. i just really want this for you both. i just wonder if what i want for you trumps what you want for you for vice versa. i want to make sure we're all on the same page.

Exactly.

Does our desire for them and our relationship with God trump their desire?

I don't believe i can desire someone into belief. I don't believe it is the will of God to allow such a thing. In the end the final leap of faith must be taken by the individual. We can encourage with all our desire, but in the end they got to take that jump.



All Praise The Ancient Of Days

I have been here for years. Didn't you see me? :confused:



Well know God to a certain extent, as i know God to a certain extent. We are both his works in progress i guess.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

Adstar,

God has put me on my face. On my face, begging and pleading for mercy, and begging and pleading for more at the exact same time, because I know I asked for it.

God has turned the bible into my life or my life into the bible. I can't even tell the difference anymore. I have become one with god and his word through experience, and I am so profoundly grateful.

I think we're coming to the same place from 2 different directions, and that's cool. As long as we end up in that same place.

I'll see you there brother.

Cheers.

And we aren't forced now ? If we don't believe in god we''ll just burn in hell.

Look at the world of faith around you? Look at the numbers leaving belief in God? You claim a forced belief, but if indeed God wanted to force people to believe then rest assured every person today would believe.

The lake of fire has no power to force people to believe. The evidence in that come is the millions who have rejected God and do not believe.

One thing the lake of fire does do it gives greater motivation to those who believe in it to go out and give the message that saves. But again it can only have this effect on those who already believe and have a desire to save others.



If some people cannot recognize god, who's fault is that ? Is he going to fix this fault ?

People have the flexibility within them to recognize God. They know both Good and Evil. The point is what is their desire? where does it lay?

Are people locked like mindless automations into their desires? Or can their desires change as a result of gaining wisdom.

People do change their desires and in that fact i can have hope for even the most rabid of God haters out there.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

so now, you have a little taste of heaven and a little taste of hell. what do you choose? what do you want?

Neither.

Yes, that's what I mean.




If you had the means and opportunity, would you ever want to force someone to love you or want to know you or commune with you?

God is omniscient, so he knew beforehand that people would believe in him, i.e. it was predetermined that people would believe in God. And God had everything to do with that.
So theist or atheist you really have no choice either way, everything that will happen to you is already determined.

We are both his works in progress i guess.

What about me ?

No i said these are some of the things that we have within ourselves that get in the way of us loving others.
But the question was: "If you don't love people already, why do you want it?"


It's not about me wanting it, it is about me wanting you to have it. Its about God wanting you to have it. I don't come here posting over these years to get something, I came here to give something. :)
Ok.
Because God wanted you to, or because you wanted to ?

Look at the world of faith around you? Look at the numbers leaving belief in God? You claim a forced belief, but if indeed God wanted to force people to believe then rest assured every person today would believe.
So he doesn't want me to believe in him, and because of that I don't ?
I have a hard time seeing the justice in throwing me into hellfire because God doesn't want me to believe in him.


The lake of fire has no power to force people to believe. The evidence in that come is the millions who have rejected God and do not believe.

One thing the lake of fire does do it gives greater motivation to those who believe in it to go out and give the message that saves. But again it can only have this effect on those who already believe and have a desire to save others.
I have serious doubts about that. I think that hell was originally made up to scare the unfaithful into believing.


People have the flexibility within them to recognize God. They know both Good and Evil. The point is what is their desire? where does it lay?

Are people locked like mindless automations into their desires? Or can their desires change as a result of gaining wisdom.

People do change their desires and in that fact i can have hope for even the most rabid of God haters out there.
Who put the desire there ? Yes it may change, but it's all predetermined.

So he doesn't want me to believe in him, and because of that I don't ?
I have a hard time seeing the justice in throwing me into hellfire because God doesn't want me to believe in him.


I have serious doubts about that. I think that hell was originally made up to scare the unfaithful into believing.


Who put the desire there ? Yes it may change, but it's all predetermined.


choice (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Choice):


Choice consists of the mental process of thinking involved with the process of judging the merits of multiple options and selecting one of them for action. Some simple examples include deciding whether to get up in the morning or go back to sleep, or selecting a given route for a journey. More complex examples (often decisions that affect what a person thinks or their core beliefs) include choosing a lifestyle, religious affiliation, or political position.


the existence of hell isn't bad when people have the choice not to get thrown into it.

choice (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Choice):

the existence of hell isn't bad when people have the choice not to get thrown into it.

You are missing the point. If God is omniscient, free will doesn't exist. And so no one has got any choice about anything.

enmos,

what are you worried about? do you know the future? do you think that god picks and chooses destinies arbitrarily? do you think that what you want doesn't matter? do you not trust god to do the right thing? do you think he's evil and has us caught up in some inescapable nightmare?

everything i've asked you here is contrary to everything i've learned from god.

what can you trust in this life right now enmos?

the answer is...your intentions.

would you pray too? would you ask him too please? he's around...

That's already been done to death, Lori. The praying and asking are a foregone conclusion.

It is YOUR request to god that is all that is important at this time, as it serves to demonstrate whether or not you really are talking to a god.

(Q) wouldn't recognise God if He bit him on his ass.

And you have recognized god? Please do tell.

Maybe he provided the tools and expected you to do your own homework.

Maybe you're just making up stuff as you go along?

Science believes in miracles too .... ;) .

Oh yes, sure it does...

*backs away slowly not making eye contact*

Oh yes, sure it does...

*backs away slowly not making eye contact*
So just be patient......:D .

That's already been done to death, Lori. The praying and asking are a foregone conclusion.

It is YOUR request to god that is all that is important at this time, as it serves to demonstrate whether or not you really are talking to a god.

OH, so this is about me then?

Heh, I think you're off by a couple thousand years...

God seems reluctant to make personal visitations of late.

Yes, gods lack of "existence" seems to increase as myths and superstitions are better understood. Amazing...

Yes, gods lack of "existence" seems to increase as myths and superstitions are better understood. Amazing...

I have only one problem : if God created me then who created this God ?.;) .

I have only one problem : if God created me then who created this God ?.;) .

A giant turtle, of course.

A giant turtle, of course.

Or precisely a giant ( Q )....nevertheless.......:D .

Or precisely a giant ( Q )....nevertheless.......:D .

It's turtles all the way down, Mike.




http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/4/47/ALLTHEWAYDOWN.gif

Originally Posted by Adstar
We are both his works in progress i guess.
”


Originally Posted by Enmos
What about me ?

Maybe He is working on you now through Lori.

Maybe He is working on you now through Me.

Maybe He is working on me and Lori through each other. You could be a non-benefiting tool in this whole thing.

Now i do not know who is being worked upon here. If someone is being worked on, and if they are willing to be worked on, then they will benefit from the work, Even if the work initially causes them some disturbance.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

“

Originally Posted by Adstar
No i said these are some of the things that we have within ourselves that get in the way of us loving others.
”
But the question was: "If you don't love people already, why do you want it?"

I did love others, but it was more like the love of the world. Ie love those who love you. or love those who are not enemies to you. When i read the words of Jesus i saw a greater, higher love, something more noble, Something wonderful, Something i admired that was above what human beings where like. I wanted to be like that, i wanted to love like that.

But i still recognised within me the defective human qualities mentioned before that get in my way of being loving in the Way that Jesus showed.




Originally Posted by Adstar
It's not about me wanting it, it is about me wanting you to have it. Its about God wanting you to have it. I don't come here posting over these years to get something, I came here to give something.
”

Ok.
Because God wanted you to, or because you wanted to ?

Of course i want others to know the love and give the love and find the incredible peace of mind that comes from that love.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

I did love others, but it was more like the love of the world. Ie love those who love you. or love those who are not enemies to you

With respect but being frank, I must contend that theists are the most selfish of all people and haven't got a clue what "love" actually is.

Once upon a time, (perhaps), you watched your wife give birth to your child. In that moment you swore an oath to yourself that you would protect it, you would nurture it, you would save it from any harm possible and so on. Should someone point a gun at this person, you would happily jump in front of the bullet.

Seems very non-selfish to me.

But then.. seemingly, as a christian, you would abandon them completely the minute you're in heaven should they go to hell. Your own child that you swore to protect and 'love' and you couldn't care less. Or, you do care and heaven is a nightmare.

Perhaps, like many top christian apologists, you'd assert that you're having too much fun to notice or you just don't remember them. If you're ok with this, again I must call your version of 'love' into question. Would I ever want to be in a place where my children were suffering and I was oblivious to that fact? No. Would you? Would I want to be in a place where I do not remember those that I love? No. Would you?

Now, I know that you might raise issue with my statements and questions. You might submit that my statements are in fact fallacies, (wants do not imply truths), and taken out of context you'd actually be right. In this context however, it's of the most worth. You see, if you wouldn't actually want to be in such heaven, how would you ever get there without espousing that such god forces it upon you - something you'd be unwilling to claim?

The only response left to you is that everyone goes to heaven - which has the rather unwanted side effect of reducing a god to meaninglessness. We all go to heaven, who gives a damn about worshipping god?

So, you either show yourself to be a 'true christian', who would defecate on his own children if it meant he'd be saved, or heaven becomes valueless. You either honestly 'love', or you wouldn't know what it really meant should it get up and slap you around the head. Make the choice.

“
Originally Posted by Adstar
Look at the world of faith around you? Look at the numbers leaving belief in God? You claim a forced belief, but if indeed God wanted to force people to believe then rest assured every person today would believe.
”
So he doesn't want me to believe in him, and because of that I don't ?

Maybe he does, You have stated your disgust in this thread at human nature. Look back at what you said about humans.



“
Originally Posted by Adstar
The lake of fire has no power to force people to believe. The evidence in that come is the millions who have rejected God and do not believe.

One thing the lake of fire does do it gives greater motivation to those who believe in it to go out and give the message that saves. But again it can only have this effect on those who already believe and have a desire to save others.
”


Enmos
I have serious doubts about that. I think that hell was originally made up to scare the unfaithful into believing.

I would agree that it is a motivator to unbelievers to seriously investigate the possibility of God. But from what i have observed in this world. It is not the clincher that causes one to believe in and trust in God and it is not the chains that causes one to remain in belief. I did not come to God through fear of the fire i came to Him through the love of the truth.


“
Originally Posted by Adstar
People have the flexibility within them to recognize God. They know both Good and Evil. The point is what is their desire? where does it lay?

Are people locked like mindless automations into their desires? Or can their desires change as a result of gaining wisdom.

People do change their desires and in that fact i can have hope for even the most rabid of God haters out there.
”


Enmos
Who put the desire there ? Yes it may change, but it's all predetermined.

Predetermined No. Pre-known Yes. God knows from His foreknowledge of all History where our eternal destinies lay. But you and me and Lori and Q and the rest Do Not. Therefore the game is still on for us. It is still being played out.

As for desires. Does a toddler yearn to eat a banana before they have had their first taste of a banana?

Once a child has a taste of banana then the desire for banana is within them.

Just like the desire for food, desires can be born when one is exposed to knowledge they have never thought of before.

Romans 10
17 So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

As for desires. Does a toddler yearn to eat a banana before they have had their first taste of a banana?


Of course they do, I take it you don't have children?

My kids are the first to desire things before they've ever had them. My child desired a skateboard before ever skating. My daughter desired bubblegum before ever having bubblegum and so on.

Kindly attempt your point again but without that mistake.

So, you either show yourself to be a 'true christian', who would defecate on his own children if it meant he'd be saved, or heaven becomes valueless. You either honestly 'love', or you wouldn't know what it really meant should it get up and slap you around the head. Make the choice.

Everyone should choose truth over their child. If your child was a serial rapist, would you hand them over to the cops? Or would you pretend nothing was going on? You don't need to abandon the good people for heaven[they should make it on their own steam], only the ones who don't make the grade. You always hope they will change, but that does not mean you'll accept it when they are wrong

Originally Posted by Lori_7
would you pray too? would you ask him too please? he's around..




It is YOUR request to god that is all that is important at this time, as it serves to demonstrate whether or not you really are talking to a god.

:) So here we come to peoples intentions.

What was your intention Q in joining in this exercise?

Was it done with a desire to try to place doubt in the mind of Lori by saying.

"Hey YOUR prayer did not work. God did not come to me. If God exists and if He listens to you and answers your prayers, then this test would have succeded. Since God did not come to me Lori then God does not exist and you do not talk to him"

Now we get back to the question i put forward to Lori before.

Can our desire and our relationship with God overcome the the desire of the other in relation to God?

Now if the desire of the other all this time has been to disprove God and to destroy the faith of another in God. What would be the will of God in this process?


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

Everyone should choose truth over their child.

The 'truth' is that I love my child more than anything.

Does it even make logical sense to say that I should choose the truth that I love my child over the fact that I love my child? I'm unsure what you're getting at.

Anyway, because you made the assertion. Why should I?


If your child was a serial rapist, would you hand them over to the cops? Or would you pretend nothing was going on?

It's an interesting question in that people that become serial rapists/killers etc typically have some serious underlying problems. Who are we really blaming? Sure, we put them in prison but it's not because of them, it's because we're trying to protect everyone else from their illness.

Of course you said 'serial' which - to me at least - certainly implies a serious underlying issue that isn't their fault. Having said that, although I deal with people that have such problems, I could be completely wrong and they could just be doing it because there's nothing better to do on Sundays. If you've seen English TV on Sundays you might just concur.

Ultimately I wouldn't, (and I doubt any loving parent would), be 'turning them in' because I thought they deserved punishment, but because they needed help, (the fact that we can't help to any great degree is beyond the point).

Unfortunately your question doesn't provide enough detail. For what reason am I phoning the police? To make them suffer or to prevent everyone from suffering, (hopefully including themselves)?


You don't need to abandon the good people for heaven, only the ones who don't make the grade.

Let it be said that "the grade", (as most christians seemingly perceive it), includes those that simply failed to have a belief in said entity. In either case, that is not a statement of 'love', it's a statement from the man that couldn't be bothered ensuring his loved one got the needed help.

That you'd abandon anyone actually sickens me. You have my oath that should I find myself in heaven and you find yourself in hell - should I have the ability, I will take the time out to rescue you from your suffering. I don't particularly like you very much but I'd still do it. You on the other hand would apparently abandon your own mother. I think that says it all.


You always hope they will change, but that does not mean you'll accept it when they are wrong

And - unless magic brain changing is the method in heaven, it will always bother you. What then is heaven?

With respect but being frank, I must contend that theists are the most selfish of all people and haven't got a clue what "love" actually is.

Once upon a time, (perhaps), you watched your wife give birth to your child. In that moment you swore an oath to yourself that you would protect it, you would nurture it, you would save it from any harm possible and so on. Should someone point a gun at this person, you would happily jump in front of the bullet.

Seems very non-selfish to me.

But then.. seemingly, as a christian, you would abandon them completely the minute you're in heaven should they go to hell. Your own child that you swore to protect and 'love' and you couldn't care less. Or, you do care and heaven is a nightmare.

Perhaps, like many top christian apologists, you'd assert that you're having too much fun to notice or you just don't remember them. If you're ok with this, again I must call your version of 'love' into question. Would I ever want to be in a place where my children were suffering and I was oblivious to that fact? No. Would you? Would I want to be in a place where I do not remember those that I love? No. Would you?

Now, I know that you might raise issue with my statements and questions. You might submit that my statements are in fact fallacies, (wants do not imply truths), and taken out of context you'd actually be right. In this context however, it's of the most worth. You see, if you wouldn't actually want to be in such heaven, how would you ever get there without espousing that such god forces it upon you - something you'd be unwilling to claim?

The only response left to you is that everyone goes to heaven - which has the rather unwanted side effect of reducing a god to meaninglessness. We all go to heaven, who gives a damn about worshipping god?

So, you either show yourself to be a 'true christian', who would defecate on his own children if it meant he'd be saved, or heaven becomes valueless. You either honestly 'love', or you wouldn't know what it really meant should it get up and slap you around the head. Make the choice.

My words have shaken you, haven’t they.

Such an emotional response. An emotional rant.

All those related to me be they mother father brother sister cousin or the entire human race for that matter. Each one is responsible for their response to the Word of God.

Now i have been brought to tears on occasions for people in this very forum because i have come to love them and hope for them as they went down the path of seeking with me. And i have seen them turn away from the love of the truth and it has cut me to my very core.

But i know in eternity Jesus will wipe away every tear and there will be no more suffering for those who loved the truth. My Hope is with the Messiah Jesus.

Each individual must stand before God and answer to their repose to His will. I will, Lori will, Enmos will, Q will and You will Snakelord. I say in faith, His Will Be Done. I trust in His will for it is perfect.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

According to religious faith are people condemned because of a lack of belief? Is it belief that’s saving or condemning?

My words have shaken you, haven’t they.

1. Not at all
2. Fallacy - you're concentrating on the person, not the argument.


All those related to me be they mother father brother sister cousin or the entire human race for that matter. Each one is responsible for their response to the Word of God

Fallacy. I have not contended otherwise.


But i know in eternity Jesus will wipe away every tear and there will be no more suffering for those who loved the truth. My Hope is with the Messiah Jesus.

Again this is a fallacy - it's entirely beyond the argument.


I will, Lori will, Enmos will, Q will and You will Snakelord. I say in faith, His Will Be Done. I trust in His will for it is perfect.

1. Fallacy - it's inconsequential to my argument

2. If it's "gods will" then it isn't my "free will" and hence that's the end of that. Kindly get it straight.

According to religious faith are people condemned because of a lack of belief? Is it belief that’s saving or condemning?

Believing God, accepting His Will is right and proper is the key to Eternity with Him.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

Believing God, accepting His Will is right and proper is the key to Eternity with Him.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

I have no evidence of a God. My question is whether or not belief without evidence is enough to condemn?

But i know in eternity Jesus will wipe away every tear and there will be no more suffering for those who loved the truth. My Hope is with the Messiah Jesus.

Each individual must stand before God and answer to their repose to His will. I will, Lori will, Enmos will, Q will and You will Snakelord. I say in faith, His Will Be Done. I trust in His will for it is perfect.




I choose bacon!

http://pictureisunrelated.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/wtf-pics-reject-christ.jpg

Mmmmm.. bacon...

According to religious faith are people condemned because of a lack of belief? Is it belief that’s saving or condemning?

According to the faith people condemn themselves voluntarily by a willful avoidance of the truth... A reluctance, denial, shunning. Not knowing what the truth is, they know they don't want it. A rejection, because they're afraid of the consequences of it, primarily conviction, so they perceive that its easier to cling to lies and stay in the dark, where they don't have to see what they've become and what they do to themselves and each other. That is what its like in hell, and if you look you will also find that quality in many people around you every day.

I have no evidence of a God. My question is whether or not belief without evidence is enough to condemn?

Belief wo evidence is a lie. You can know god though.

:) So here we come to peoples intentions.

What was your intention Q in joining in this exercise?

So that your god will visit me and convince me of his existence, of course. Pay attention.


Was it done with a desire to try to place doubt in the mind of Lori by saying.

"Hey YOUR prayer did not work. God did not come to me. If God exists and if He listens to you and answers your prayers, then this test would have succeded. Since God did not come to me Lori then God does not exist and you do not talk to him"

That pretty much sums it up.


Now we get back to the question i put forward to Lori before.

Can our desire and our relationship with God overcome the the desire of the other in relation to God?

Now if the desire of the other all this time has been to disprove God and to destroy the faith of another in God. What would be the will of God in this process?

Who cares? This is all about your god visiting me. He is all-powerful, yes? He is all-knowing, yes? Then, what's the problem?

God's non-existence is the problem, perhaps?

According to the faith people condemn themselves voluntarily by a willful avoidance of the truth... A reluctance, denial, shunning. Not knowing what the truth is, they know they don't want it. A rejection, because they're afraid of the consequences of it, primarily conviction, so they perceive that its easier to cling to lies and stay in the dark, where they don't have to see what they've become and what they do to themselves and each other. That is what its like in hell, and if you look you will also find that quality in many people around you every day.

Nonsense, Lori. Atheism is about not accepting the claims of thiests as theists offer no evidence to their claims. Atheists would LOVE to see the evidence and are waiting in the peanut gallery patiently.

Yet, no one offers evidence, including the gods in question.

So, atheists continue to wait and use their time to live their lives rather than bless an imaginary god.

Nonsense, Lori. Atheism is about not accepting the claims of thiests as theists offer no evidence to their claims. Atheists would LOVE to see the evidence and are waiting in the peanut gallery patiently.

Yet, no one offers evidence, including the gods in question.

So, atheists continue to wait and use their time to live their lives rather than bless an imaginary god.

this is the point i'm always trying to make with you. who is it you're looking to to provide this evidence? is it the theists or is it god? because hanging out in the peanut gallery isn't going to get it. you could stand to be a little more proactive...ok, a lot more proactive.

pay attention to who you're seeking from and how you're seeking. who's door are you knocking on?

Belief wo evidence is a lie. You can know god though.

I have never seen supporting evidence of a God. Belief without evidence equaling lies, yes.


If you knew it which is pretending to be a God, then you would know it isn’t one. Is anybody in contact with this so called God? Meaning, is anybody getting an honest to goodness answer from "it" instead of reading about it?

I have never seen supporting evidence of a God. Belief without evidence equaling lies, yes.


If you knew it which is pretending to be a God, then you would know it isn’t one. Is anybody in contact with this so called God? Meaning, is anybody getting an honest to goodness answer from "it" instead of reading about it?

yeah, i am.

this is the point i'm always trying to make with you. who is it you're looking to to provide this evidence? is it the theists or is it god? because hanging out in the peanut gallery isn't going to get it. you could stand to be a little more proactive...ok, a lot more proactive.

pay attention to who you're seeking from and how you're seeking. who's door are you knocking on?

Again, I don't know how many times I have to repeat this, Lori. It has nothing to do me and everything to do with your god. I don't control him nor do I make his decisions.

Bottom line: You requested he visit me, I'm waiting. That's it. He doesn't visit me, we can then make an analysis and come to a conclusion.

I'm getting the impression you're trying to get out of this as you probably know a visit will never happen, yes?

Again, I don't know how many times I have to repeat this, Lori. It has nothing to do me and everything to do with your god. I don't control him nor do I make his decisions.

Bottom line: You requested he visit me, I'm waiting. That's it. He doesn't visit me, we can then make an analysis and come to a conclusion.

I'm getting the impression you're trying to get out of this as you probably know a visit will never happen, yes?

you initiating and having a relationship with god doesn't have anything to do with you? are you out of your fucking mind? :confused:

If God's a part of everything, he can never be whole again until everything is back into one.

If God exists, he can't be seen or understood, because he can't be whole while other life still exists. I can't imagine God being able to hold conversations with us, but I suppose many unbelievable things are possible until proven false. Although I see no proof that he does ;).
If God is real, he would be so much bigger than us, how could we comprehand his voice? We can't have conversations with insects that I'm aware of, and I imagine we'd be even smaller than insects, we are just molecules in 'Gods' world!
If God is real, and he does speak, I doubt we could understand his language! Do molecules understand English? Same idea to me ;).

But whether God is real or not, and what he/she/it is either way, the possibilities of multi universes still exist with multiple dimensions, and it might get even bigger then that! Our universes begining might just be a small part of a bigger singularity that once was a small part of an even bigger singularity, etc... The begining of it all might be 'God'!

God has nothing to do with religion, that was mans perceptions.

yeah, i am.

Okay Lori, thank you for being honest. Do you want to discuss your experiences? I too have heard from "it".

you initiating and having a relationship with god doesn't have anything to do with you? are you out of your fucking mind? :confused:

Lori, that's not what I said. I said that your god visiting me doesn't have anything to do with me in that he either visits me or he doesn't. I don't control him. Do you get it now?

So, when is he going to visit me?

Lori, that's not what I said. I said that your god visiting me doesn't have anything to do with me in that he either visits me or he doesn't. I don't control him. Do you get it now?

So, when is he going to visit me?

Most likely you have heard from “it”. Sometimes pictures you see in your thoughts could easily be from ‘it” instead of imagination or daydreams.

Okay Lori, thank you for being honest. Do you want to discuss your experiences? I too have heard from "it".

yeah, sure. :)

Lori, that's not what I said. I said that your god visiting me doesn't have anything to do with me in that he either visits me or he doesn't. I don't control him. Do you get it now?

So, when is he going to visit me?

when you sincerely want him to and ask him to. and that doesn't have anything to do with me.

yeah, sure. :)

I'll believe you if you get it right Lori.

yeah, sure. :)

At times, do you notice pictures in your thoughts that are not of your making?

Possibly we could get an interesting discussion going if I could find some folks with experience involving “it”. Not just reading about it.

Did god ever show? I've been away.

At times, do you notice pictures in your thoughts that are not of your making?

i've had visions before. i don't know if i'd describe them as pictures. one was an embellishment of a situation that i was actually in, and others were of a more interactive nature. one of an alien, and one of an angel.

one was like an awake dream...like a day dream.

Possibly we could get an interesting discussion going if I could find some folks with experience involving “it”. Not just reading about it.

i hate to break it to you, but most of the people out here are going to diagnose you with schizophrenia. :(

Did god ever show? I've been away.

Well, what you call God is here now, however its not what you have been lead to believe. I need somebody with knowledge established through experience recognizing "it" to participate. To actually go any farther with this.

i hate to break it to you, but most of the people out here are going to diagnose you with schizophrenia. :(

Yea, I know but that diagonosis would be worthless.

Earth,


“ Originally Posted by Lori_7
yeah, i am. ”

Okay Lori, thank you for being honest. Do you want to discuss your experiences? I too have heard from "it".

Are you religious ?

Yea, I know but that diagonosis would be worthless.

When you open yourself up for examination and make extrodinary claims then you shouldn't be suprised when others don't believe you or are skeptical.

I would not imply that Lori or you are schizophrenic, but I did suggest she get checked out because if i had one of those experiences (seeing things move about a table) I would. I would want to make sure I avoid losing it somewhere else like driving a car. It would be the responsible thing to do.

But maybe those with an illness like that would be the last to do such.

If I claimed that every few months aliens for the planet zoton came down and took me to their planet would you believe me ?

I mean, you can't prove that it didn't happen. So you would ask me for proof it did.

It is frustrating because there is apparently no way for anyone who claims to have contact with god to come up with any proof, and so the claim has to be taken on faith. That is not good enough for me.

i've had visions before. i don't know if i'd describe them as pictures. one was an embellishment of a situation that i was actually in, and others were of a more interactive nature. one of an alien, and one of an angel.

one was like an awake dream...like a day dream.

You're on the right track. Sensations and feelings can also accompany the pictures transmitted to your brain for your mind to recognize.

Earth,



Are you religious ?

No. Not in the sense most people have become.

When you open yourself up for examination and make extrodinary claims then you shouldn't be suprised when others don't believe you or are skeptical.


It is frustrating because there is apparently no way for anyone who claims to have contact with god to come up with any proof, and so the claim has to be taken on faith. That is not good enough for me.

Understood. I don't think I am making any extordinary claims, in itself. Many books have been written about this God. People spend money on the subject. I don't know that its extrodinary.

No. Not in the sense most people have become.

Do you follow a religious text ?

Do you believe any religious text is the word of god ?

Understood. I don't think I am making any extordinary claims, in itself. Many books have been written about this God. People spend money on the subject. I don't know that its extrodinary.

People have written lots of books about being abducted by aliens, many people claim to have been abducted, people spend money on the subject.

It's pretty extrodinary I would say.

You are missing the point. If God is omniscient, free will doesn't exist. And so no one has got any choice about anything.

good point too, but you're missing the bigger point.

if everything is predetermined, but unknown to anyone but god, it does not take our will away from us.

meaning, you're fate is sealed, but it will turn out a result to whatever you do or choose.

knowing what choice you make in life doesn't stop it from being a choice taken by you none the less.

something like in the movie minority report.

Yea, I know but that diagonosis would be worthless.

well, it does keep them from taking my testimony seriously.

Do you follow a religious text ?

Do you believe any religious text is the word of god ?

I know scripture if that is your intent. Scripture has been interpreted differently by individuals claiming to have some sort of insight. All interpretations are questionable.

You're on the right track. Sensations and feelings can also accompany the pictures transmitted to your brain for your mind to recognize.

most of the time i get messages with no pictures.

i've also experienced interactions with spirits, and channeled transcendental writings.

i've also witnessed some type of telekenisis going on around me. well, for lack of a better term. i witnessed a spirit, or spirits, manipulate physical objects around me. that was weird.

well, it does keep them from taking my testimony seriously.

Try to examine the functioning of "it". Question how the information or pictures you recieve is getting inside your head allowing for your recoginition of "it".

I know scripture if that is your intent. Scripture has been interpreted differently by individuals claiming to have some sort of insight. All interpretations are questionable.

Let me put it another way.

Are you a christian or muslim or other. Do you believe the religious text you follow is the word of god ?

Or do you not believe any religious text is the word of god ?

most of the time i get messages with no pictures.

i've also experienced interactions with spirits, and channeled transcendental writings.

i've also witnessed some type of telekenisis going on around me. well, for lack of a better term. i witnessed a spirit, or spirits, manipulate physical objects around me. that was weird.

On Ghost hunters I watched "it" lift a brick up off the ground and throw it.

i've also witnessed some type of telekenisis going on around me. well, for lack of a better term. i witnessed a spirit, or spirits, manipulate physical objects around me. that was weird.

yeah that can happen quite often.
the spirit beings teleport in from the other side

they have to phase into the matter barrier then they can trans mutate into this realm.
Then through Thought form projection they can move things here. it's a pretty weak force though.

I'd like to hear Earth and Lori's perceptions of the following:

If God's a part of everything, he can never be whole again until everything is back into one.

If God exists, he can't be seen or understood, because he can't be whole while other life still exists. I can't imagine God being able to hold conversations with us, but I suppose many unbelievable things are possible until proven false. Although I see no proof that he does ;).
If God is real, he would be so much bigger than us, how could we comprehand his voice? We can't have conversations with insects that I'm aware of, and I imagine we'd be even smaller than insects, we are just molecules in 'Gods' world!
If God is real, and he does speak, I doubt we could understand his language! Do molecules understand English? Same idea to me ;).

But whether God is real or not, and what he/she/it is either way, the possibilities of multi universes still exist with multiple dimensions, and it might get even bigger then that! Our universes begining might just be a small part of a bigger singularity that once was a small part of an even bigger singularity, etc... The begining of it all might be 'God'!

God has nothing to do with religion, that was mans perceptions.

But if you perceive things that others don't, how do you know it is 'God'? Could it just be something else, what other possibile explanations fit - why only pick one, when it is unknown?
Do you believe so strongly that you are unwilling to look at other possibilities?
Much remains unknown, why should I believe others know what is unknown, without proof?

And even if you do have experiences and/or conversations with a greater being, is it not possible that that greater being is something other than 'God'?

Let me put it another way.

Are you a christian or muslim or other. Do you believe the religious text you follow is the word of god ?

Or do you not believe any religious text is the word of god ?

The word of God is data transmitted to folks brains for their minds to recognize. Questions arising from the data being transmitted are not answered. The word of God is an interpretation by the individual receiving the data and the interpretation is not an absolute. I am not a christian or muslim.

Pipes,


but I suppose many unbelievable things are possible until proven false

Yes but it is not the burden of those who are claiming something does not exist to prove it does not.

You can't prove something does not exist.


But if you perceive things that others don't, how do you know it is 'God'? Could it just be something else, what other possibile explanations fit - why only pick one, when it is unknown?

Which is my only real issue with what Lori has presented. She keeps referring to the bible, I am claiming to her that if the bible is bunk then who's god or what god is contacting her. Is it a god at all ?

The word of God is data transmitted to folks brains for their minds to recognize. Questions arising from the data being transmitted are not answered. The word of God is an interpretation by the individual receiving the data and the interpretation is not an absolute. I am not a christian or muslim.

good definition :bravo:

The word of God is data transmitted to folks brains for their minds to recognize. Questions arising from the data being transmitted are not answered. The word of God is an interpretation by the individual receiving the data and the interpretation is not an absolute. I am not a christian or muslim.

Ok, so if you are not religious and don't follow any religions concept of what god is how do you know it is god ?

How do you know others are receiving this data ?

Earth.....good user name btw

Ok, so if you are not religious and don't follow any religions concept of what god is how do you know it is god ?

How do you know others are receiving this data ?

That is my meaning when I said I can't go much farther with this unless somebody experiencing "extrodinary" events relating to this thread, participate.

That is my meaning when I said I can't go much farther with this unless somebody experiencing "extrodinary" events relating to this thread, participate.

Nonsense.

Tell us what your extrodinary events were.

Tell us how you know this is god and not something else.

Nonsense.

Tell us what your extrodinary events were.

Tell us how you know this is god and not something else.

You like the word extrodinary, I didn't think the word applies, actually .

I'd like to hear Earth and Lori's perceptions of the following:
If God's a part of everything, he can never be whole again until everything is back into one. If God exists, he can't be seen or understood, because he can't be whole while other life still exists. I can't imagine God being able to hold conversations with us, but I suppose many unbelievable things are possible until proven false. Although I see no proof that he does ;).

This is a misconception. There is no actual conversing, unlike a cell phone conversation. Data is sent by "it" but questions concerning the data sent are rarely answered.



If God is real, he would be so much bigger than us, how could we comprehand his voice? We can't have conversations with insects that I'm aware of, and I imagine we'd be even smaller than insects, we are just molecules in 'Gods' world!
If God is real, and he does speak, I doubt we could understand his language! Do molecules understand English? Same idea to me ;)

Our neural code working in our brains has been deciphered. Words, pictures, feeling, sensations and also pain are all available to be manipulated through the data being sent by “it”.



But whether God is real or not, and what he/she/it is either way, the possibilities of multi universes still exist with multiple dimensions, and it might get even bigger then that! Our universes begining might just be a small part of a bigger singularity that once was a small part of an even bigger singularity, etc... The begining of it all might be 'God'!

Thinking technology will lend a better understanding of “it”. Origninating from a different demension or universe is mostly likely not the case.



God has nothing to do with religion, that was mans perceptions.

"It" is certainly involved in prompting religious perceptions.



But if you perceive things that others don't, how do you know it is 'God'? Could it just be something else, what other possibile explanations fit - why only pick one, when it is unknown?

Experience is the best teacher. Without experience one has no reference or association in gaining understanding. Examination of my experiences has given me some insight.



Do you believe so strongly that you are unwilling to look at other possibilities?
Much remains unknown, why should I believe others know what is unknown, without proof?

I doubt there is going to be proof. You know, something passing the rigorous test of science.


And even if you do have experiences and/or conversations with a greater being, is it not possible that that greater being is something other than 'God'?

Well, at first "it" was pretending to be God, but when I confronted "it" with known inconsistencies then "it" changed its tactics.

You like the word extrodinary, I didn't think the word applies, actually .

You are good at avoiding questions but not so good at answering them.

Let me try again,

Tell us what your out of this world events were.

Tell us how you know this is god and not something else.

Well, at first "it" was pretending to be God, but when I confronted "it" with known inconsistencies then "it" changed its tactics.

So here you are saying that it might not be god. So if not then what is "it" ?

Not asking for proof because I know that you can't offer any. But what do you think "it" is.

So here you are saying that it might not be god. So if not then what is "it" ?

Not asking for proof because I know that you can't offer any. But what do you think "it" is.

IMO, it is an alien hacking machine, hacking into peoples brains like a hacker hacking into a computer.

You are good at avoiding questions but not so good at answering them.

Let me try again,

Tell us what your out of this world events were.

Tell us how you know this is god and not something else.

I have the experience to question other people stating they have experience involving "it". If you had any experiences then you could participate.

IMO, it is an alien hacking machine, hacking into peoples brains like a hacker hacking into a computer.

Does it offer any specific message ?

Does it give any instructions ?

You said it doesn't answer any queries, but if there is a message what is it ?

You obviously believe in alien contact then, is this the only type of experience you have from them or it or are there other types ?

I have the experience to question other people stating they have experience involving "it". If you had any experiences then you could participate.

First off the chances are pretty miniscule that you find someone else here that feels there minds are being hacked by aliens. But you never know.

Lori claims it's god. So she can just claim your experiences are god and not aliens, what then. How do you know it's not god ?

You claim it started out pretending to be god, what convinced you it was a trick ?

Does it offer any specific message ??

Usually "it" drums up money for peddlers of religion.;)



Does it give any instructions ??

Just submission to "it". Give somebody something or don't wear earrings or other things like that. Some people are told to go evangelize the world.



You said it doesn't answer any queries, but if there is a message what is it ?

This is the most frustrating part. IMO, "it" is using deception and not honesty.



You obviously believe in alien contact then, is this the only type of experience you have from them or it or are there other types ?

IMO, its alien technology pretending to be something its not. Like God.

First off the chances are pretty miniscule that you find someone else here that feels there minds are being hacked by aliens. But you never know.

Lori claims it's god. So she can just claim your experiences are god and not aliens, what then. How do you know it's not god ?

You claim it started out pretending to be god, what convinced you it was a trick ?

"It" couldn't produce a flat earth or explain why people in the past thought it was flat. Yet "it" was the orginator of such thinking.

earth.

i've received messages that aliens will perpetuate the end times lie of the antichrist and the false prophet, and promote them to power, and the mark of the beast, which is a genetic manipulation causing the this corrupt flesh to not die (but will be destroyed by fire), and spiritual death (a complete severance from the holy spirit of god). the lie is that we can fix ourselves with knowledge (like the stuff that bishadi talks about), and rules. they become our saviours. and to survive upcoming cataclysmic earth changes, and to live forever, we have to take the mark. those who don't will be martyred. the aliens are the locusts that are described in the book of revelations, that will sting men like scorpions (paralyzed and disoriented). the book says that men will seek death in those days and not find it. this is why. i've known a woman for about a decade now who has described her abduction experiences to me in detail. we are very good friends. i've been convinced from the beginning that it is a spiritually laden experience...demonic.

receiving this message is actually why i came out here to sciforums over a decade ago.

This is a misconception. There is no actual conversing, unlike a cell phone conversation. Data is sent by "it" but questions concerning the data sent are rarely answered.

Hold on a second, so what makes 'it' God? We all take in new data all the time, and many people perceive new data differently. It sounds to me like you have experienced something unknown more then once and went with God as the explanation. Fair enough as long as you can see other possibilities as well.


Our neural code working in our brains has been deciphered. Words, pictures, feeling, sensations and also pain are all available to be manipulated through the data being sent by “it”.

Again, what makes 'it' God. Words, pictures, feelings, sensations, pain, etc.. are all things that everyone experiences everyday!
And even if you have specific experiences that you have been sent 'data', who is to say what the source of the data you recieved is indeed from God?



Thinking technology will lend a better understanding of “it”. Origninating from a different demension or universe is mostly likely not the case.

Well that is your opinion, and it has no basis. I look for anything that is possible, I don't pretend to know - I already know none of us know everything. I'm always looking for new knowledge though, you give my nothing more then percpectives and opinions, we all have different ones of those!



"It" is certainly involved in prompting religious perceptions.

But religious percpectives are quite primative nowadays. Most logical people that do believe in religion have adapted their belief so it can fit with things now known. Most also know man wrote the books, not God.



Experience is the best teacher. Without experience one has no reference or association in gaining understanding. Examination of my experiences has given me some insight.

Experience is one of many teachers. However experiences change when situations are different. We all experience different things and we perceive those experiences differently. Life is experience, and everyone is different from the next. Experience is obviously important, but there are many ways to experience. Our individual perceptions of our experiences are true to us, but the way we percieve things is not neccessarily true at all!



I doubt there is going to be proof. You know, something passing the rigorous test of science.

If it is true there will be proof of it one day. You saying you doubt there will be proof, is telling me sub-consciensly you doubt it is true. :)


Well, at first "it" was pretending to be God, but when I confronted "it" with known inconsistencies then "it" changed its tactics.

Oh so you don't think 'it' is God, 'it' was just pretending. Now I am kinda confused, lmao.

earth.

i've received messages that aliens will perpetuate the end times lie of the antichrist and the false prophet, and promote them to power, and the mark of the beast, which is a genetic manipulation causing the this corrupt flesh to not die (but will be destroyed by fire), and spiritual death (a complete severance from the holy spirit of god). the lie is that we can fix ourselves with knowledge (like the stuff that bishadi talks about), and rules. they become our saviours. and to survive upcoming cataclysmic earth changes, and to live forever, we have to take the mark. those who don't will be martyred. the aliens are the locusts that are described in the book of revelations, that will sting men like scorpions (paralyzed and disoriented). the book says that men will seek death in those days and not find it. this is why. i've known a woman for about a decade now who has described her abduction experiences to me in detail. we are very good friends. i've been convinced from the beginning that it is a spiritually laden experience...demonic.

receiving this message is actually why i came out here to sciforums over a decade ago.

So in these messages, there must be a time frame. I mean those are somewhat specific in nature, so there has to be some kind of time referrence.

In our lifetimes perhaps ?

i've received messages that aliens will perpetuate the end times lie of the antichrist and the false prophet, and promote them to power, and the mark of the beast, which is a genetic manipulation causing the this corrupt flesh to not die (but will be destroyed by fire), and spiritual death (a complete severance from the holy spirit of god).

There have been many false prophets. We can find them today making predictions that never come to pass. People are still waiting for Jesus to return even after 2000 years. Its time to confront the originator of such prophecies.


the lie is that we can fix ourselves with knowledge (like the stuff that bishadi talks about), and rules. they become our saviours. and to survive upcoming cataclysmic earth changes, and to live forever, we have to take the mark. those who don't will be martyred. the aliens are the locusts that are described in the book of revelations, that will sting men like scorpions (paralyzed and disoriented). the book says that men will seek death in those days and not find it. this is why. i've known a woman for about a decade now who has described her abduction experiences to me in detail. we are very good friends. i've been convinced from the beginning that it is a spiritually laden experience...demonic.

receiving this message is actually why i came out here to sciforums over a decade ago.

That kind of stuff implies a bad attitude toward our fellow human beings and its using scare tactics. Plenty of people thought Hitler was the antichrist and WWII was the end of the world. Peoples assumptions turned out not to be true and so will those predictions you just listed.

Doom and gloom sells. Trust shouldn’t automatically be given. Instead trust should be earned. If you notice “it” demands trust without earning it.

"It" couldn't produce a flat earth or explain why people in the past thought it was flat. Yet "it" was the orginator of such thinking.

So "it" has been attempting to hack our brains for thousands of years.

there's no time frame, but telling events are substantiated all over the place...open your eyes and ears for god's sake.

and the trust i have in my source has been earned and then some.

there's no time frame, but telling events are substantiated all over the place...open your eyes and ears for god's sake.

and the trust i have in my source has been earned and then some.

I answer this with Earth's comments


There have been many false prophets. We can find them today making predictions that never come to pass. People are still waiting for Jesus to return even after 2000 years. Its time to confront the originator of such prophecies.


That kind of stuff implies a bad attitude toward our fellow human beings and its using scare tactics. Plenty of people thought Hitler was the antichrist and WWII was the end of the world. Peoples assumptions turned out not to be true and so will those predictions you just listed.

Doom and gloom sells. Trust shouldn’t automatically be given. Instead trust should be earned. If you notice “it” demands trust without earning it.