Replicators http://www.gateworld.net/omnipedia/races/links/replicators.shtml Warhammer 40,000 verse http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Warhammer_40%2C000#Background On your first premise that a Chaos god could just destroy the replicators, I have no doubt that he could. However, he has control only in the Warp and the Eye of Terror. Otherwise, I doubt replicators would send every replicator into the Warp or the Eye of Terror. This would pertain to every other god, though besides Khorne and Tzeentch, Slaanesh and Nurgle couldn't do squat anyhow. Besides the ominous event that the Eye of Terror engulfs the galaxy, Chaos really are non-threatening. Replicators have a major advantage over the forces of Warhammer 40k. One, they aren't constrained by the Warp. In the lore, the Warp could give you advantage of coming in before they do, or coming in after they called for a check. On average, it takes warp travelers a matter of one to two weeks. The rest of the time jumps are rare and variable. We can assume the majority of forces will take weeks. Replicators on the other hand, can reach intergalactic distances in a matter of hours. When SG-1 encountered the replicators, they were in a different galaxy consuming Apophis' ship. And then they modified his ship to accelerate 800 times its normal speed and made it to the Milky Way in mere hours. In regard to stationed forces or they do manage to make time: Imperial Guard would be wholly useless versus replicators. Their primary armament are lasguns, which are energy-based. If you know replicators, they're immune to energy attacks, like the plasma-based staff weapon of the Jaffa. You may state that lasguns could tear an arm off an unarmed man, but I would say that a staff blast would do the same thing. Even if 20 lasguns pointed on one replicator could hypothetically destroy one, replicators come in thousands (in waves, not total). They could resort to their autoguns and shotguns, but as the Tau'ri showed, that only holds them off for a couple minutes, max, and every single of their soldier had projectile-based weapons. The Imperial industry base is concentrated on pumping out the "all purpose" lasgun. Send in the Adeptus Astartes! Instead of lasguns, their multi-purpose is the bolter. This will definitely shatter the replicators. Problem is, bolts are huge and you can only store what: Less than an automatic weapon per clip. Even though they're explosive, they're not really rocket launchers. The explosion only helps create flesh damage against the target. Otherwise, each shell is not going to make grenade-sized pot holes. Heavy bolters may stave them off longer, but since heavy weapons and tactical squads are in the minor, it'll be a matter of couple minutes when the replicators come in melee range. They could melee the reps, but considering reps are ankle high, the Space Marines are going to have trouble smacking (or sweeping with their chainsword) toaster-size bugs. Like bugs, they'll pounce, hop, and dash at you. They'll even use tactics of flanking you. Even a man with the reflexes at the speed of light could not make his genetically altered muscles move at the speed of thousands per minute. They could stomp, swat, and do wrestling moves on them, but if the funny thing about being Hulk jr. and wearing an armor bigger than themselves is that they can't reach certain spots on themselves (when do they ever find a threat that latches on them?). A fellow brother could help him out, but then he'd get something on his back. Before you know it, they'll be a hole in everyone's backs and you'll have adamantium-based replicators and a bunch of mushy flesh in a tin can. In the end, all flesh ends up the same way, whether it's natural born, or genetically altered. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! Tyranids would avoid them just like they avoid Necrons. They have nothing to offer each other. In fact, replicators would probably trail hive ships, wait for them to suck the living crap out of a planet, and consume the leftovers. Then there would only be leftover masses of hydrogen, helium, etc., but no planet. Necrons can flail them atomically, but I don't think they'll fair much better than a guy with a machine gun. The premise of a replicator is that it can consume any metal. If it's metal, it's consumable, and there have been no exceptions. You can call it living metal, liquid metal, or whatever, but if you have the monicker of metal, you are consumable--which would be an interesting sight to see living metal replicators. And since Necrons only appear super as they repair themselves or teleport out, Necrons will lose about half their force (unteleportable), and then decide to skip out. From there, I don't think there is any other terrible force that could do much more than the ones posted above. And because this is replicators versus Warhammer 40k, and not Stargate vs Warhammer 40k, the WH40k races will still be on their normal routine of everyone for themselves. It's only fair since the mecha-bugs don't get their super science homeboys from their dimension. Debate. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
Wow. Dude, the replicators have no sort of weapon to crack open power armor, explain that. So what if they surround a space marine, the space marine wouldnt be harmed anyways. Also, space marines have promethium flame throwers, just fire away, and bolters are unguided missiles END OF STORY.
Why not just pop in a few grenades? Nobody has ever seen what effect a truly heavy weapons system has on the replicators. Also. Argueing for the replicators is argueing for a god creature, something that can and will do anything, it is a cheap ass tactic and there is no sort of debate. Why didnt the ST vs SW thread hasnt ended? I mean the Q are supposedly omnipotent, why ahvent they just won by default. I shouldnt argue about this because it will be an utterly stupid arguement.
Replicator spray. Works on all metals, and never shown to have failed on any metal. Bolters are not missiles. They do not have that kind of explosive ordinance. Also, flame throwers do not melt their enemies into piles of goo. Last I checked, it only deep fried up the guy inside the suit of armor (making the armor extremely hot). Because replicators become whatever they replicate out of (adamantium), they'll have the same properties as Warhammer 40k metals. *reopens storybook* The Tau'ri (modern day USAF, Army) have grenades. And that'll probably only stop ten per grenade. Hey, Warhammer 40k has "god creatures" per race: Avatars, Chaos Gods, Alpha Psykers, Greek God Space Marines, etc. You seem eager to argue that plus the Force for Star Wars (Revan, Palpatine). You're just angry because I found something that trumps your trump card. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
Yah but replicator spray doesnt work on adamentium or ceramite, how do i know? I dont, but neither do you apparently. Space combat. A replicator vessel against a battlebarge is screwed.
Works on all metals, shown to never fail. That's like me saying, how do you know a bolter is going to affect a replicator? They're from a parallel universe, you probably need parallel universe matter! Or, we could make the supposition that if it has a property, and shown to have no exceptions in its own dimension, then we can assume it'll work on the same form of elements (that being metals). Adamantium is described as a metal. They don't fight ship to ship. They instead fling replicators onto the ship's hull and then eat into the ship. Once that happens, it doesn't matter how many guns a battle barge has, it'll all matter what kind of internal defenses it has. It'll then move back to the domain of soldiers versus bugs. In the series, replicators have been shown to break through shielding, so no, that won't help. Honestly, even Stargate has shielding. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! Also, Warhammer 40k weapons don't obliterate everything to a subatomic level. If they do manage to hit a replicator ship, intact fragments will still move towards the ship. The Asgard planet of Orilla was guarded by several Asgard vessels, yet even though they blasted the ship to tiny fragments, that's all that's needed for replicators to replicate from. Those fragments hailed onto Orilla's surface, and in no time, the replicators formed into millions. Asgard and Goa'uld ships are always impacted by these buggers. Likewise, the Imperial Navy men would be screwed unless they had inboard soldiers.
Screw you, this isn't even close to an even arguement dude, this is the problem of debating people like you. You just enever give the hell up. see you later im off to debate with people that can accept that their scifi race is omnipotant, argue with your keyboard because it wont be with me.
Yeah, I see that's why you navigate the Star Trek vs Star Wars thread. Because everyone gives up. So, who won again? Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! Replicators aren't omnipotent. The Ascended on the other hand are. Replicators do two things: 1) replicate 2) assimilate advanced technology. If they were truly godly, then SG-1 couldn't have beaten them. Then again, they defeated the Ori. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! "You" kind of people get angry when someone presents an enemy vastly more superior at the same way you present your faction against other factions. I've seen how you're propagating Warhammer 40k in the 'Star' thread. I call that hypocrisy. Though I do commend you conceding to a defeat.
Yeah... I figured that part, but fedr808 never brought it up. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! However, I do believe only the plating is made out ceramite. The spring suspension on the abdomen and the joint linings on the other hand, probably require smaller and more easily shaped pieces. I assume this would either be adamantium or plasteel. Though plasteel has properties of plastic, it also has properties of steel. Replicators most likely will not chew through the armor, but would undoubtedly attempt replicator spray, which would most likely take out vital components through the joints. I suspect this would either take out the power in the power armor, or inhibit movement. Even with enormous strength, I don't think moving the armor without the power would be easy. Though, their weapons are most definitely out of adamantium. So, it would end up with slow moving space marines without any weapons. The bugs will give up, chew up their equipment, and leave. The Space Marines will be semi-neutralized as a threat. Of course, they could still chase them around trying to jump on them, but that would be ridiculous. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
Actually the Chaos Gods do have quite a bit of influence outside of the Eye of Terror. They just don;t manifest themselves as easily. Hundred of thousands of being have been converted by the dark whipsers of Slaanesh, billions have died because of Nurgles Plagues, one can Easily see the Khorne has a stranglehold on the mindset of nearly everyone, and Tzeetch, the god of technology and change makes them all look like amatuers. As the Replicators would initially be change he would support them a little, however as they would eventually represent stagnation a few whispers as they would feast on each other destroying themselves. Necrons are not constrained by the Warp either. In fact they are not even fully aware of it. You do forget that the Lasgun actually does do physical impact with it's laser(as any high power laser should) and the laser of course heats up the target. And while they aye be immune to the energy weapons of the Jaffa, I am sorry to say those are not all that powerful in the first place, from all appearances the Jaffa would have been better off using firearms. However the Imperial are also adept users of artillery, tanks, and Titans with firepower that boggles the mind. Okay, Bolter capacities are along the lines of current assualt rifles. These weapons fire a rocket propelled explosive shells in the .75 caliber size. With explosives more advanced than anything we can imagine. They also can carry flammers, plasma cannons, multimeltas, rocket launchers, and vehicle grade lascannons. And this is just the Tactical marines. Who fight in squads of ten. It isn't like they fight alone and these men train 20 hours a day when not fighting and have fought in hundreds of battles before even becoming a full marine. Then there is Terminator armor. A trully magnificent piece of equipment. Thicker heavier stronger armor bolstered with multiple force fields. Theoretically it is possible for a Terminator to survive a Melta Torpedo strike. They carry the Storm Bolter, a double barrled bolter and a Powerfist, a weapon capable of peeling open tanks. And lets not Assault marines with Jetpacks. Do your replicators fly in heavy gravity. On top of all this you have Dreadnaughts and the many vehicles Space marines use, all designed with durability and firepower in mind. However Replicators are not smart enough to avoid the Tyranids. They would detect the ships and assume the carapace hulls were some sort of new regenerating metal alloy. After allthey have met no race that travels the stars in bioships. And that would be the end of your little fleet. Actually the Necrons are super in many ways. First of all the Replicators have only been seen eating material on par with 20th Century Earth high grade steel. Despite the advances of Gould and Asgardians, their structures behave and react to damage like 20th century steel. Now compare this with a culture that was ancient billions of years ago, figured out FTL, figured out how to make bodies for being that fed on stars and you get a clue. The replicators would be destroyed as a pestilence if they made the first attack. Orks are a problem as they are as tough as space marines but don't depend on all that armor. Plus there is nothng they love more than a fight. Use that with thei propensity for melee weapons, shooters, and breeding faster than guppies and you have a race that is nearly impossible to dislodge from a planet Tau are a problem as they seem to use more ceramite in their armor than metal as well as using better shooting weapons than Imperial guards. Eldar and Dark Eldar would pwn the replicators are Wraithbone is not a metal. Eldar are also much faster in thought and speed than the altered Space marines. And even in their armor, there is no place they can;t reach on their body.
Tzeentch is the lord of sorcery and mutation, not technology. Yeah, not very science fictiony, considering it is just Warhammer Fantasy in Space. Otherwise the corruption you speak of? No effect on the Replicators. You cannot bribe replicators with power, plague them, or seduce them. They have no mind to speak of, as they are the true embodiment of the hive mind (unless they have a human replicator leading). So, Chaos are worthless. They can't corrupt Tau, Necrons, Tyranids, or Orks. In reality, they are mainly influences of the Imperium of Man and the Eldar (i.e. harmless). They are indeed aware of it through their masters, the C'tan. In fact, it is Necron pylons that help keep the Eye of Terror at its present size. Ultimately they are seeking to close the Materium off to the influences of the Immaterium, as the C'tan only care for the material realm. Anyways, the Necrons are the only exception. Every other force relies on the Warp in some way or another (Tau use it as a slingshot). Staff blasts kill in one hit. I'm pretty sure that counts as powerful as the lasguns initial hits. Secondly, staff blasts heat, explode, and have kinetic force (charged plasma). Again, no effect on the replicators. And Jaffa would be better off with firearms, but Goa'uld used them as power embodiments over the medieval masses they controlled. Either way, lasguns do what I've said. Secondly, artillery, tanks, and titans are good against things at their size. They are wholly useless against replicators. Imagine if I had a thousand RC cars running at you and you had a tank. Do you think you could stop the cars before they reach you? Now imagine the RC cars as metal eating termites that will crawl over your machine, rendering all its weapons useless (unless you start shooting yourself). Infantry are the only things possible in taking on replicators. Alright, I think you're now just spouting things to make Warhammer 40k look grand without actually having anything to refute the replicators directly. I KNOW they have all that stuff. Except that they will do nothing. Bolters are not missile launchers, and as great as they are, they have less ammo than an M16. Unless they have spatial compression, you can't disagree. They don't have the same proportions as an M16 clip, yet have bullets larger than NATO rounds. Now tell me how you can stick 16 of those in that stubby clip. Unless they had constant drop pods, they would run out of ammo faster than the Replicators could replicate. They are like Tyranids of metal, except they have no hiveship you can kill a norn queen or send a virus into. That was the only way the Ultramarines managed to stop a full Tyranid invasion. Swap that with replicators and you'll have yourself a problem. Secondly, Terminators are good only in tight spaces. Without them, they are as useful as a regular Space Marine. And because of their size, they are made up of more admantium and plasteel, meaning something for Replicators to chew off. Power fists, chainswords, lightning hammers will do nothing besides smacking thousands of them. Too bad there are more than that. And they jump at you, come at you from all sides, and will even latch onto the weapon. They won't get melted or electrified (they use Kieron pathways; scifi gibberish saying they don't use circuits). So, they'll jump onto the powerfists and start corroding it. Forcefields, though will hold them off for a while, they'll modify themselves to pass through, much like they do in order to pass through ship shielding. Jumpjets. Wow. I don't see how that equates to fighting power. Explain to me how that will help them defeat Replicators. By the way, they can't fly in those things, and they have to land eventually. I don't care if they fought for ten eternities. Unless they have better equipment and technology, they can't stop a hungry wave of K'NEX toys. A man who has the experience of a billion years and with a stick could not turn the tide of water. It's impossible with just a stick. If he had better equipment, like a bulldozer, concrete, cranes, etc. then it is possible. Space Marines are the men with sticks, and replicators are the tide. Have you watched Stargate at all? First, Replicators do the same as Tyranids, they have waves of Replicators going to the four corners of the galaxy. They do not gobble up a planet and return to a single fleet. As much as I create an analogy between replicators and tyranids, it's only loose. Replicators have no hivefleet and communicate via subspace. This means they can send drones out as they do not rely on a synapse. Secondly, they are not mindless like Tyranids. They have scanners. That is how they know how to hunt down certain ships. When the Replicators sent a ship towards the Asgard, following Carter's advice, they sent their newly built ship (filled with new tech) to divert them. Even though the replicators has a chance to devour the Asgard world, they scanned the O'neill and saw that it was full of technology and instead chose to chase that. Had it just been a Ha'tak or an Earth ship, they would have scanned it and ignored it. They target high technology, meaning they could easily scan the Tyranid hiveships and avoid them. And even if they didn't, like I said, they move in several cells, so losing one fleet won't end them. Hath thee not seen Stargate? React like 20th century steel? Naquadah does not act like steel. The Stargates are made of Naquadah ore, and cannot be destroyed short of being tossed into a black hole. Replicators eat Naquadah. Plasteel, adamantium, and living metal are fair game. Necrons = eaten. Orks have loads of metal. All of their equipment is scrap metal. If the replicators eat all of their metal, they won't have any weapons. Secondly, they are biological. Replicator spray not only dissolves metals for consumption ease, it's also fatal to biological contact. The Orks may be tough to eradicate, but so are replicators. Orks would be rendered harmless once they lose their weapons. They'd have to resort to making wooden clubs. But then they could not fly or shoot, rendering them terrestrially stranded and harmless to the replicators. Imagine cavemen running after mice and trying to smack them. Because replicators convert metal into nanites (replicator spray or human-form replicators) or basic replicator blocks, even if they got smashed, Orks couldn't use the metal anymore unless they smelt it. Tau are a non-threat. They own only a handful of planets. They only exist as a playable race as because they are a race to be played. They really aren't vital to the Warhammer 40k story, however. Eldar are like Tau, a non-threat. After the Replicators are done consuming the galaxy and converting Imperial ships, they'll use the same Imperial technology against the Eldar and Tau (which works pretty well), except it won't be stagnant tech like with the Adeptus Mechanicus. They modify all technology to be optimized (equip it with hyperdrives). Besides replicating, they don't change everything into replicators. They take control of ships and upgrade them (Apophis' Ha'tak). So just imagine the Imperium with Hyperdrives and optimized energy weapons.
It's not even really clear exactly what eldar, tau, necron, or even space marine armor is made of. Some sort of hard material, obviously, but there's no telling what the properties are. For example, we know that space marine armor is made of something called "ceramite," but simply having a name doesn't really tell you anything. There is no way to know whether or not replicators could disintegrate it, or how the various 40k armors compare to the materials from the show that they are known to be able to disintegrate.
G9ive it up you guys, this is just a woo woo thread and no matter what you say he will tell you you are wrong, not referance it correctly. Say why he is so right And then parade around like he actually knows these facts accurately.
Ooh that is an interesting thought. What happens when the Replicators meet the C'tan that is pretending to be the Machine God.....This could be hysterial instant slave race for the Empire.
As for the call of how many rounds in a Bolter. You are making a false assumption that a Space marine is human proportioned. They aren't they stand in excess of eight feet tall when they are fully developed and have a profile resembling muscular tolkienish dwarves. This means that the average bolter rifle is MUCH larger than M-16. In fact one can easily see how they would be the size of heavy machine guns. Their clips are much larger than an M-16's clips and thus thr standard Bolters clip carries thirty rounds. Given how well the space marines are trained with their weapons it is 30 kills even on little dancing toasters. By the way. here is education on the all to common Boltgun thanks to Wiki and GW Some Bolter Variants Bolter Rifle The standard weapon of the Adeptus Astartes, or Space Marines is the boltgun, also known as a bolter. A bolter has semi-auto, four-round burst, or fully automatic fire (rarely used, unavailable on some patterns), and typically carries thirty rounds in its standard sickle-shaped magazine. Other magazine options include a fifteen-round straight magazine, a 40-100 round drum-magazine and a thirty-round belt feed. The last is likely not restricted to thirty rounds, but it as well as the drum-magazine are prone to feeder malfunctions and jams. Bolters are generally much more effective (but more complex) than standard pattern lasguns, but are also different in that they fire physical projectiles rather than directed energy beams, and so have incomparable operating parameters. The unique properties of the "bolt" fired by these weapons allows the warhead to penetrate the target, before ideally detonating inside the target, multiplying the destructive force. Due to complexity, rarity, and cost, Bolters are mainly used by the genetically engineered Space Marines, the Adepta Sororitas, and less frequently by Imperial Guard veterans and officers. Bolt Bistol The Bolt Pistol is a common variant of the Boltgun, and apart from the Space Marines, is also available to officers and seasoned veterans of the Imperial Guard - they are sometimes gifted to Commissars, both for battling and to perform field executions of those too cowardly for the Emperor's service, leading to the weapon being nicknamed the "Bravery Bolter". A standard Bolt Pistol magazine, due to varying manufacturing skills and machinery, is capable of housing between 6 and 12 rounds of ammunition. Such weapons are often used by the assault troops of the Space Marines, the Adepta Soritas, and Chaos Marines. In extended engagements, when reloading can mean almost certain death, a drum magazine can be utilized, with the same capacity as those used on Storm Bolters. Heavy Bolter The Heavy Bolter is a support weapon. Unlike other Bolt weapons, it uses a much larger 1.00 caliber round and is in common use by all but the Imperium's most primitive martial forces. It has a high rate of fire, long range, is inexpensive to manufacture, and tolerant of mistreatment by inexperienced users. It is equipped on tanks and a variety of vehicles as an anti-infantry weapon as well as on fixed defences. Storm Bolter. The storm bolter is a double-barreled version of the bolter. As it is designed for brutal assault, and consumes more ammunition than a normal bolter, they are not normally utilized by Space Marines in regular power armour. However, they are standard issue for Space Marine Terminators, and are often a tank's pintle-mounted weapon. They are also used by the Grey Knights as a gauntlet-mounted weapon with its feed sourced from the back of their armour or from a magazine on the side of the gauntlet (as seen in Dawn of War: Dark Crusade). Like boltguns, Imperial Guard veterans and officers rarely carry a storm bolter. The Sisters of Battle will sometimes designate a member of a squad to carry a storm bolter as a special weapon. Due to high munitions consumption, and the lack of manual dexterity in Tactical Dreadnought Armor, most Storm Bolters are fed from a large box magazine, carrying approximately 60-150 rounds depending on the size and style. When the weapon is used without Tactical Dreadnought Armour, it usually has a more conventional magazine containing sixty rounds, which, given the double barrels and firing mechanism, gives you thirty shots. These rounds are identical to those fired from bolt pistols and boltguns. Bolter Ammunition is not just a slug. The following types are commonly used. Though most of these rounds are only used by Deathwatch the Militant arm of Ordo Xenos Inquisitors. Though sometimes Hellfire ammo is issued when the Marines are expecting Tryanids. Standard Bolts comprise the following components: Outer casing, propellant base, main charge, mass reactive detonator cap, depleted deuterium core, diamantine tip. The standard bolter shell is standardised at .75 calibre, whereas heavy bolter rounds are larger, at 1.00 Cal. A replica .75 cal bolt shell can be bought from the Black Library (Games-Workshops main fiction and non-miniature based outlet). Hellfire Rounds have devastating results on organic matter, as the rounds are developed to combat Tyranids. The core and tip are replaced with a vial of mutagenic acid with thousands of needles that fire into target upon the shattering of the vial, pumping the acid into the target. Stalker Silenced Shells are rounds with low sound signatures, meant for covert fighting and used in conjunction with an M40 targeting system and an extended barrel and stock on a bolter to produce a sniping weapon system. A solidified mercury slug replaces the mass-reactive warhead for lethality at sub-sonic projectile speed. A gas cartridge also replaces both the propellant base and main charge for silent firing. Inferno Bolts are designed to immolate their targets and destroy them with superheated chemical fire. The deuterium core is replaced with an oxy-phosphorus gel, known as Promethium. Metal Storm Frag Shells are best against multiple lightly-armoured targets. They detonate before impact and spray shrapnel, shredding their victims. A proximity detonator replaces the mass-reactive cap, and the diamantine tip and deuterium core are replaced with an increased charge and fragmentation casing. They are similar to flak rounds and are used against clusters of enemies. Kraken Pattern Penetrator Rounds are powerful armour-piercing rounds. The deuterium core is replaced by a solid adamantine core and uses a heavier main charge. Upon impact, the outer casing peels away and the high velocity adamantium needle accelerates into the victim, where the larger detonator propels shards of super hardened metal further into the wound. These are effective against heavily-armoured infantry. Psycannon Bolts are used by the Inquisition, primarily the Ordo Malleus and Grey Knights. They are very similar in nature to the rounds fired by their namesake, the Psycannon, and are similarly used against psychic and daemonic targets. Of all the rounds these are the most expensive, as each and every bolt is inscribed with runes on a microscopic level. Other sources say that they contain an anti-psychic substance that still others claim is a byproduct of the Emperor's Golden Throne. The psychic nature of these rounds are not only effective at destroying daemonic targets but also highly efficient at piercing the powerful barriers created by forcefield generators (such as the Tau Shield Generator and the Imperium's own Iron Halo and Storm Shield).
I thought you gave up coming here. Though, I really wish you would, because your hypocrisy is killing me (gladly not literally, though close). What do you think you are doing in the "Star vs" threads? You are saying they could beat Star War and Star Trek without referencing it correctly. You say you are so right. And then you parade around thinking you know Warhammer 40k facts accurately. "The pot calling the kettle black."
That is why I said 'proportionately'. I know they're taller and more muscular, but so are their guns. When we look at a regular human proportion with their M16s and look at a Space Marine with his bolter, the proportion look on par as the regular human. That is proportion, though I'm not trying to be condescending. I'm just merely reiterating an important part of my argument. M16 caliber = .219 (approx) Basic human height = 176.3 cm* Bolter caliber = .75 Basic Space Marine height = 244-274 cm (8-9 ft) For compatibility, I'm going to convert the caliber from inches to centimeters, in order to fit with the heights (.6 cm & 1.91 cm). Basic:M16 cal = .0034 SMmin x .0034 = .83 cm (ratio'd caliber) SMmax x .0034 = .93 cm Bolt caliber = 1.91 cm (actual caliber) The caliber of the bolter is much larger larger compared to the proportion of a US marine with an M16. While Space Marines are indeed larger than humans, they are proportionately so. Space Dwarves did once exist (called Squats), but were eaten by the Tyranids (GW didn't like them anymore). The God Emperor of Man wanted to inspire his people, by creating god-like human soliders, not god-like Squat soldiers (even though they look like hunchbacks in Terminator armor). Though centimeters really aren't that greatly apart ('cm's for crying out loud), it is a good way to show that the proportion is then close to being equal to a human with an M16. Bolters have stubby magazines, whereas M16s have long slender ones. At ratio, a bolter magazine is definitely shorter, so I would say by technicality that a bolter could not realistically (suspension of belief ofc) hold 30 rounds like an M16. However, since you provided a source, I concede that it will hold 30. Just no rationale behind it is what I'm proving. Though, caliber sizes aren't really that wide and varied, so it still may be possible if the bolter clip was proportional to an M16 magazine length. Which it isn't. It's stubby![/concedes] On the point that a 30 round clip could take out all the replicators, you could reference the M16. The bolter is an automatic weapon, making me doubt each bullet is going to hit each individual replicator. There's going to be hit/total ratio of about 20/30. Again, I will restate that the bolter is not a grenade launcher. A single bolt would nearly tear a man's torso off (through internal explosion), but a grenade would blow his whole body apart and those usually hit externally (Armageddon analogy: Firecracker on hand vs in fist). Bolts definitely don't come close to doing that. Replicators would attack only high technology planets or densely civilized planets like hiveworlds (more metal). So the environment would be urban with skyscrapers all about. Now imagine a several squads of SMs versus replicators coming down from every building and they have to reload every 30 shots. THAT's what I'm getting at. Out of all of those, I only see one bolt that would help SMs fight replicators, that being the Metal Storm Frag Shells. The rest are less explosive than their original counterpart. However, .75 caliber isn't that large of a bullet. Think .75 cal sniper rifle (MythBusters used it several times and showed the .75 vs. regular bullet). As much shrapnel that could fit would be at a minimum. ____________________________ Notes: * - US average for 21+ from 2003.
Okay, we have a slight problem the last .75 caliber weapon prior to the Gyroc experiment of the 70's was Brown Bess Musket. You may be referring to a .50caliber sniper rifle however. Actually the closest equivalent we have today to the Bolter is the no defunct OICW with it 20mm canon (.80 caliber) Now those can explode with as much force as a 40mm greande after penetrating a wall. So a major upgrade in material would have the bolter punching holes through 21st century tank armor. Now also you must take into account that GW is always right about their game. If they say the clip holds thirty it holds thirty end of story. FInally Space marines are all marksman extraordinaire. They train with their weapon night and day in situations and enviroments that a normal person would not even survive. They pride themselves on being the best weapon of the emperor. If the Replicator try a rush of a Space marine held facility the death toll of Replicators to marines will reach Thousands to One.
Ah, gotcha. Must have what I mixed it with. If you're talking about the XM29 airburst grenades, then I'll have to repudiate you on that. I've seen the videos, the airburst grenade is nowhere as powerful as a 40mm M203. They're more fragmentation than they are explosive yield, ergo anti-personnel grenades. That was the reason it was an airburst smart grenade, designed to go over cover rather than destroying the cover with a 40mm. Bolters are definitely not as strong as 40mms, especially since the bullet has to be chambered for the rocket propellant and initial launch charge as well as the final explosive charge. This also creates a problem for the shrapnel bullets, as they are chambered into an additional section: Initial charge, propellant, explosive, shrapnel. A regular bolt could probably only manage to explode with the same force as a modern 20mm. This is leeway as I even mentioned how they wasted room on propellant space. XM29 20mm http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XNdLFRhDhtk Yeah, I conceded on that point. I guess I wasn't clear enough. It just shows how much less GW is on science fiction, and more onto epic science fantasy. Not surprising as their other two tabletop franchises are Warhammer Fantasy and Lord of the Rings (licensed, not maker). Besides most of that being irrelevant to the actual problem (reference man with stick), an automatic will always shoot faster than a person's twitch. Unless it's a slow automatic, or semi-automatic, then no matter how much training they have, they'll have misses. Secondly, I already stated thousands would fail. Thousands always fail. That's the scary thing about Replicators, they always build more and they always keep coming. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
