In several threads up to know we had discussed what ways there is for detecting Earth move wrt the vacuum, "Absolute Space", cosmological frame call it as you like. A totally legal and approved by SRT method for this is the Relativistic Doppler Effect.

Suppose that there is a star in the sky and we measure its red shift ar 1st january, since the red shift depends from velocity of the observer wrt the source if we measure again the frequency at 1st july it should be different. Because at first january we are moving to the star (approaching) and earth move should cause blueshift, and at first july earth is moving away from the star (decending) and should cause redshift.

So after all the Absolute Space and AFR are well and firmly embedded in the framework of the classical SRT.....

Sorry, what's AFR? (Accelerated frame of reference?)
Sorry, absolute space is not embedded in SR. the concept that is valid for SR is that of absolute spacetime

Xgen,

That is the one of the stupidest things I've read. "Relativistic" Doppler Effect demonstrates "Absoulte" Space??? Ha. Ho...

HaHaHAHAH...HoHOHAHAHAHAHA...!!!

In several threads up to know we had discussed what ways there is for detecting Earth move wrt the vacuum, "Absolute Space", cosmological frame call it as you like. A totally legal and approved by SRT method for this is the Relativistic Doppler Effect.

Suppose that there is a star in the sky and we measure its red shift ar 1st january, since the red shift depends from velocity of the observer wrt the source if we measure again the frequency at 1st july it should be different. Because at first january we are moving to the star (approaching) and earth move should cause blueshift, and at first july earth is moving away from the star (decending) and should cause redshift.

Doppler shift can also depend on the velocity of the source wrt to the observer. IOW, you cannot, by Doppler shift, determine whether you are moving towards the star or the star is moving towards you. You would get exactly the same results if the it was the star moving in a circle of 1 AU radius with a period of a year.

Besides, even if you could elimimate the chance that it is the star that is traveling in a circle, you cannot any absolute motion with in Terms of the Sun and said star.

If you had two such paired arrangements (planet measuring its orbital motion wrt to some star) and these arrangements had relative motion with respect to each other, both systems would get the sames results per the measured orbital motion, but these measurements would say nothing about the absolute motion of the two systems. You would not be able to tell which, if either, was at absolute rest.




So after all the Absolute Space and AFR are well and firmly embedded in the framework of the classical SRT.....

So, no they are not.

Doppler shift can also depend on the velocity of the source wrt to the observer. IOW, you cannot, by Doppler shift, determine whether you are moving towards the star or the star is moving towards you. You would get exactly the same results if the it was the star moving in a circle of 1 AU radius with a period of a year.

Besides, even if you could elimimate the chance that it is the star that is traveling in a circle, you cannot any absolute motion with in Terms of the Sun and said star.

If you had two such paired arrangements (planet measuring its orbital motion wrt to some star) and these arrangements had relative motion with respect to each other, both systems would get the sames results per the measured orbital motion, but these measurements would say nothing about the absolute motion of the two systems. You would not be able to tell which, if either, was at absolute rest.

Doppler relativistic effect depends from velocities of both the observer and the source, you are right. There can be many systems observer-source with the same Doppler effect but different velocities wrt abs. space.

I can argue however if it is not possible abs. space velocity to be detected by examing periods of the variations of the doppler effect. In this way all circular movements of both objects can be detected.

And I am almost absolutely sure that if we apply this approach to ALL the stars the averaged statistical mean doppler effect will allow detection of abs. velocity with high precision. Suppose that we pick up one star from the sky and measure its redshift. The we can say - either this star is moving wrt us with velocity V1 or we are moving to it with velocity V2. Then we pick up another star and we determines that there is relative velocity V2 between us and it, and so on..., but at any given instance because of chaotic nature of the Universe:

Sum (Vi) = 0, i - number of stars

(except Universe expanding velocity which we can also find)

It is simple math to figure out what is our mean velocity WRT ALL the stars which of cource is exactly what we search.

Anyway, I was not talking about the measurements but about principles and phylosophy. Because every theory embeds in it phylosophy and Absolute Space is embedded in SRT as a hidden concept, without it you cant understand relativity phenomenon. GRT embeds Absolute Space too. "space-time" curvature is a curvature of the absolute spacetime. That also means that a moving object curves spacetime in a unique way depending only from it velocity wrt the abs space (not from any relative velocities).
When talking about principles the doppler effect shows that it is generaly possible to be found out what is the velocity wrt the abs. space and this with making calculations only in our frame. I think that Einstein had believed that this is absolutely not possible.

You are essentially correct, Xgen, and it has already been done. The International
Celestial Reference Frame is used by Astronomers as something similiar to an 'absolute'
reference frame, from which motion within the Milky Way is determined, as well as the
Milky Way galaxy's rotation wrt other galaxies and its, and other galaxies in the local
group, convergence on a point near the Virgo cluster. It is also used in the GPS system, as I have mentioned many times before.
http://rorf.usno.navy.mil/ICRF/

You are essentially correct, Xgen, and it has already been done. The International
Celestial Reference Frame is used by Astronomers as something similiar to an 'absolute'
reference frame, from which motion within the Milky Way is determined, as well as the
Milky Way galaxy's rotation wrt other galaxies and its, and other galaxies in the local
group, convergence on a point near the Virgo cluster. It is also used in the GPS system, as I have mentioned many times before.
http://rorf.usno.navy.mil/ICRF/


Yes, ICFR can be well and close to the AFR - Absolute Frame of Reference, why not make a thread about it? It will be interesting if we can position Earth more precizely in this 'frame'. The problem as I see it is that stars are too far and Earth is moving too slow this to be noticed for the short time of one century. If we xhhose some of the stars as coordinates origin Earth will be so far from it that we would not be able to distingush its movement. If it was possible more local way for detection of Earth movement wrt AFR it would be really usefull.

Xgen,

That is the one of the stupidest things I've read. "Relativistic" Doppler Effect demonstrates "Absoulte" Space??? Ha. Ho...

HaHaHAHAH...HoHOHAHAHAHAHA...!!!


French people had once sayed that the one who laughs at last laughs best. Your post, superluminal , is the most simple and provocative way to dismiss something without even to understand it. Your simplicity is amusing: HaHaHAHAH...HoHOHAHAHAHAHA...!!!

Xgen,

I don't much care for the French as a rule. However, your feelings about absolute space and how it is "embedded" in relativity theory make no sense.

superluminal,
I do care for the French as a rule. However, but that indeed is the one of the stupidest things I've read too: "The relativistic Doppler Effect demonstrates Absoulte Space"