I'm still confused as to who is really the pawn in this relationship.
Congress willingly and eagerly gives military and financial aid to the Israelis and yet bitches with its own military about financies. Isreal, supposedly a principal ally repeatedly steals intelligence from the US and everyone shuts up. Elements in Israel repeat how "Israel does not need the USA" and that their country survives on its own accord-- to an extent that even some schools preach this doctrine. The US seemingly does not exert any control over Israel especially with regard to Middle Eastern policy.

WHY? This is Israel at a glance:
- Founded by the USA, oh I mean UN, oh I mean USA
- Israel has limited natural resources
- An economy almost nonexistent without US aid
- Less than 7 million citizens
- Less productive capacity than any meaningful US state
- A president who was the prime "terrorist"(Palestinian viewpoint) of his day
-THE PRIME REASON WHY THE US suffers in the middle East

The alliance between these two countries is economically and militarily retarded for the US because 1. No Important US bases in Israel. 2. Israel is sustained by US AID.

So why not abandon the country and let the middle easterners retake it? Under the condition of course that its people either leave or stay under the promise of religious freedom and equality?
The USA can then reconcile relations with Iran, Egypt, Syria, Lebanon, ETC ETC ETC. Thereby eleiminating 80% of ITS CURRENT SECURITY CONCERNS? :rolleyes:

So if some thug come around to you and threaten you about your friendship with some guy, you will of course end that friendship and allow the thug to kill your friend, right?

I hardly think that is a very useful analogy Jerrek. After all the US's relationship with Israel can hardly be likened to two little kids in the playground. It was not exactly founded on sharing a desk in grade one now was it... And who exactly is the bully in this relationship???? I think the US being the world power and pumping military aid into Isreal to the point of giving them the third or forth strongest military in the world hardly puts either of these countries in the easily picked on category! Not excatly the wimpy little kid in class. But anyway, who's to say that pulling aid out of Israel would suddenly bring all those Middle Eastern countries around? Now the US is just about to bust down Syria's door so that doesn't bode very well for them being best friends anytime soon....

Israel is the brain of U.S.and the 90% of northamericans they didn´t realise it yet.
U.S.is a big Supermarket and Israel the boss, big old LYER.

Israel's relationship with the US is so strong becasue the Israeli's have a huge and very powerful Jewish lobby group. Rather Ironic since the Israeli state in Zionist. Most of the PNAC crowd is Zionist, and the Zionists are embedded with the US presidentcy.

Here is a good list:

http://www.rense.com/general36/zinf.htm

And no I don't consider Zionists, Jews.Becasue a true Jew dosen't renounce a faith, Zionists (real ones) are faithless, they rejecy the Torah. Many people say they don't like Jews when in reality that is mis-informed. Many actually don't like the Zionists.

And for the US to support ISrael creates more problems then she asks for. But the Israeli's provide at the very lest a good intelligence service :D

Hola Nico:Very good information.

Gracias Argentino, go to the PNAC link you will be suprised. Tell me what you think about it?

The deepest link of Israel and US can be found in its free market , the USA motives for Israel are economical first political second .

Economical it is all about having the right peoples in the right places , witch means there where the financial dependance is .

Political it is all about having the right peoples in the right places , witch means there where the governing dependance is .

Zionist Kayks have formed a strong block in the USA free-market , and Zionist Kayks have formed a strong block within this the political democracy .

Another interesting and perhaps to unexplored part would be the legislative force , be it that it is the least relevant and can be controlled by the government as much as necesarry .

To seel all this to the public there is the wonderfull media for the short term memory and the wonderfull movie-industry for the long run .

To speak of conspiracies and evil Jewish peoples is both ignorant as it is unnecesarry for understanding how the system works between USA and Israel .

Yk-sZ

Nico tell me what is PNAC link?



YitzhaKShimshelevitZ
To speak of conspiracies and evil Jewish peoples is both ignorant as it is unnecesarry for understanding how the system works between USA and Israel


So please tell us what you know.

Argentino here:

http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=22137

Read that, discusses many things that might interest you. :D

Gracias companero.

Originally posted by thefountainhed
I'm still confused as to who is really the pawn in this relationship.



America is the pawn. There is no question about this. The tragedy is that we have been made to believe that we have control.

Originally posted by thefountainhed
So why not abandon the country and let the middle easterners retake it?

For the same reason we got into this in 1948. THE JEWISH LOBBY. The jewish lobby in America is one of the strongest political action forces in this country. I know this sounds anti-semetic but I could care less if it was the jews, the mormons, or the KKK. The bottom line is that Americans are being led down the primrose path by an exclusive group of people (the jews) who infultrate a political/cultural system (America) to insure their own success at the expense of others.

I can't believe how much this sounds like nazi rhetoric but this is present state of affairs.

Why does America policy support Isreal (and has since 1948) to its own detriment? Because jews have a powerful and direct effect on American policy. In addition to the jewish lobby, Jews control much of the American media. They control much of Hollywood. Isn't Shindler's List a brilliant film? No its jewish propaganda. Do Americans ever hear anything about the 4 million non-jews killed by Hitler in the concentrations camps?

The bottom line is that jews are able to enter an economic/political system and are able to manipulate and control it to ensure thier own survival. They have been very successful at this. Do I blame the jews for acting to protect their own kind? Definately not.

If I were a jew, I would be happy that a group to which I am a member is so succesful at protecting our kind all over the world. I would be happy that the group to which I am a member enjoyed such economic and political success as they do in America.

But I am not a jew. I am the citizen that has been taken advantage of. I am the one who was manipulated and controlled in order for the jews to obtain their successes. And the jews were able to do this without me knowing. Most Americans still do not know of the powerful jewish forces that affect their lives everyday.

These same jewish forces are to blame for 9/11 and the tremendous hatred of Americans throughout the middle east.

Am I saying we should hate jews and do I advocate harm to jewish americans? Absolutely not. I just feel that we need to be made aware of who is tugging on our puppet strings.

oz

Personally I think Israel is our big stick we wield over there, unfortunately I think we lost control of our big stick. I know sometimes I lose control of my big stick... or twig. :p

I agree with you guys. I think Israel is more of a liability than anything else. I don't see how we benefit. We would benefit much more by being allied to the Arabs who have oil.

Originally posted by LionHearted
I agree with you guys. I think Israel is more of a liability than anything else. I don't see how we benefit. We would benefit much more by being allied to the Arabs who have oil. You mean ally to the people who did 9/11? Who blow themselves up among civilians? Who cheered in the streets when the planes crashed into the twin towers?

Um let me think for a few nanoseconds...




NO.

Hey jerrek: WITH ALL RESPECT, YOU HAVE NO IDEA WHAT ARE YOU

SAYING,BETTER YOU INFORMATE YOURSELF BEFORE.

I agree with you siledre. America wanted control in the region and Israel became the stick. But Jerrek is right in the sense that these countries are not exactly big fans fo the US in the first place, and the US purposefully sets them up as the "enemies" anyway. Israel is really the only way into the region... Except for bombing the way in taking over Iraq of course ;)

The United States' relationship with Israel is a practical one. Prior to colonizing Afghanistan and Iraq the US didn't really have a good foothold in the region aside from Israel. The middle east has been fought over by foreign powers extensively in recent history due to its oil resources.

Originally posted by Jerrek
You mean ally to the people who did 9/11? Who blow themselves up among civilians? Who cheered in the streets when the planes crashed into the twin towers?

Um let me think for a few nanoseconds...




NO.

Why do you think they did that? They don't just do it for fun. They hate us because Israel treats the Arabs so terribly and we pay the bill for it. Also, the majority of Arabs are not suicide bombers. The Saudis and Kuwaitis are Arabs. If we can be friendly with those Arabs, why not other Arabs?

But is it all about the US and Israel? I think that is a bit simplistic! Attacks have not only been made on the US remember- there was the Bali bombing and there are constant terrorist attacks all over the place. The Jihad against the US would exist anyway with or without Israel

No there would be no Jihad against the USA without Israel.
And I still cannot see how the relationship between Israel and the US is economically beneficial to the US. Or even militarily.
The pawns the US have in the middle east are Kuwait and the UAE.

Considering the effective Jewish lobby in Washington, me thinks the Arabs are fighting their wars incorrectly---especially considering their immense wealth.

Maybe is something about technology.Israel is very good deal with the ambition of some groups who like the power.Thing that they learn from them

Originally posted by IRDÍN
Hola Nico:Very good information.

Abdulla: The Zionist makes your heart flutter, huh Nico?

Well, lemmie say this: "If all the Zionists had passed through Treblinka and Autzwich--there wouldn't be any bad atheist Jews contaminating Israel and the world would be a better place for anyone!

Can you imagine a world without Zionist Jerrek? LOL! :rolleyes:

Ever notice how serene and quiet it became after Zionist devil Rabbi Meir Kahane took it in the chin from a young brave Egyptian?

He SHOULDA GOT THE NOBEL PEACE PRIZE! :eek:

Abdulla....

Before the Jews , We did not have any enemies in the Midle East
I love my country (U.S.) I fought many battles in different countries for other people 's freedom . I've seen our brothers and sisters give their lives for reasons I still dont understand. But I will never fight or do anything to benefit the jews. It makes me sad and mad to see how they manipulate the Media , Economy and everything else the get their hands into. Here in the US they live their lives to our expenses . It is really sad how our country is full of jews , but whats makes me more angry is the idea of having jews running our country ........ yes they hold key positions within the govertment , they call the shots for almost everything that goes down ..... good example (Iraq War) . They don't like peace , they like to cause turmoils and turn non- jews against each others.
If you read the History of WWII ..... The jews of Germany cause the country to suffer , because they did not let the money flow , they held it for themselves and of course the economy went down and that is how they brought to themselves what happen after that . If you want to know the reallity behind the so called holocoust ( which most of them use to obtain what they want , specially money ) read books not written by Jews. Anything else will only tell you lies. Anyways they are doing to us here in the US the same thing they did to Germany.

You all got it wrong. It is all about Christian fundamentlists..............hardcore southern baptists ( current usa goverment) believes it is their duty to save israel and jews so the messiah will come back and then prophecy of christ's second coming will become true.

Agree, The christians also believe that the jews are good and are not meant to convert until Jesus come back in person.......but some people believe that it's the zionist Jews who have played with the Church to avoid christian antisemitism and are working the christians like puppets to satify their agenda........Just theories though.

The realtionship btwn the US and Israel is now actually in my view co-ordinated. The Pentagon and the Knesset are one, they work in unison. The Israeli's have obviously smashed human rights in the territories to the point in which dipolomats and journalists are not safe. The ouster of Saddam gives the Israeli's a much greater hand to deal with the Pals. The Israeli's know that US will never give up on them, they not only have the jewish vote to count on but the eltra- Christians vote as well. Sadly most people don't realize that they are supporting a state that is according to the Torah in essence a sin. The US is getting a bum rap, but she deserves it for supporting Israel so unabashly, no country deserves terrorism, but how can it stop if the oppressors get support from the big daddy? Those helicopters you see over Gaza and Nablus are American made. The Israeli's have time and again proven that is belliegerant, irrational, and wildly violent. I highly doubt that a honest deal can be brought out of this "peace plan", we need a honest broker and we all know that the US isn't.

Originally posted by thefountainhed
I'm still confused as to who is really the pawn in this relationship.
Congress willingly and eagerly gives military and financial aid to the Israelis and yet bitches with its own military about financies. Isreal, supposedly a principal ally repeatedly steals intelligence from the US and everyone shuts up. Elements in Israel repeat how "Israel does not need the USA" and that their country survives on its own accord-- to an extent that even some schools preach this doctrine. The US seemingly does not exert any control over Israel especially with regard to Middle Eastern policy.

WHY? This is Israel at a glance:
- Founded by the USA, oh I mean UN, oh I mean USA
- Israel has limited natural resources
- An economy almost nonexistent without US aid
- Less than 7 million citizens
- Less productive capacity than any meaningful US state
- A president who was the prime "terrorist"(Palestinian viewpoint) of his day
-THE PRIME REASON WHY THE US suffers in the middle East

The alliance between these two countries is economically and militarily retarded for the US because 1. No Important US bases in Israel. 2. Israel is sustained by US AID.

So why not abandon the country and let the middle easterners retake it? Under the condition of course that its people either leave or stay under the promise of religious freedom and equality?
The USA can then reconcile relations with Iran, Egypt, Syria, Lebanon, ETC. ETC. ETC. Thereby eliminating 80% of ITS CURRENT SECURITY CONCERNS? :rolleyes:

Abdulla: I say we make those head thumpers the 51st state and TAX THE BASTARDS til their noses bleed! :eek:

Abdulla....

quote:
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by 567
You all got it wrong. It is all about Christian fundamentlists..............hardcore southern baptists ( current usa goverment) believes it is their duty to save israel and jews so the messiah will come back and then prophecy of christ's second coming will become true.
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Flores
Agree, The christians also believe that the jews are good and are not meant to convert until Jesus come back in person.......but some people believe that it's the zionist Jews who have played with the Church to avoid christian antisemitism and are working the christians like puppets to satify their agenda........Just theories though.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Christians killed and kill people,jewish killed and kill people,both kill people in the past and in the present,both kill spiritual and fisically.So i cannot shut up and cover them.
With all respect about your opinion, but people like you two,that cover this two all dangerous stories,help for flames of hell still burning inocent people.But at the end,all of us we know, that God, will tip the scales in favor of the ones who tried to stop this disorder.


Let me ask you something. in which country do you live?(if you don´t want you don´t need to answer)

Originally posted by nico
The realtionship btwn the US and Israel is now actually in my view co-ordinated. The Pentagon and the Knesset are one, they work in unison. The Israeli's have obviously smashed human rights in the territories to the point in which dipolomats and journalists are not safe. The ouster of Saddam gives the Israeli's a much greater hand to deal with the Pals. The Israeli's know that US will never give up on them, they not only have the jewish vote to count on but the eltra- Christians vote as well. Sadly most people don't realize that they are supporting a state that is according to the Torah in essence a sin. The US is getting a bum rap, but she deserves it for supporting Israel so unabashly, no country deserves terrorism, but how can it stop if the oppressors get support from the big daddy? Those helicopters you see over Gaza and Nablus are American made. The Israeli's have time and again proven that is belligerant, irrational, and wildly violent. I highly doubt that a honest deal can be brought out of this "peace plan", we need a honest broker and we all know that the US isn't.

Abdulla: Now you know why Iran is hard at work perfecting its highly accurate Al- Shabab I & II IRMB's and their nuclear facilities are balls-to-the-wall producing plutonium resources for their SELF DEFENSE needs.

At a time in history when the US has "invented" the Pre-emptive War Doctrine - the Iranian's are learning awful fast.

I say, NUKE 'EM Ayatollah's! :eek:

Abdulla...

Originally posted by IRDÍN
quote:
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by 567
You all got it wrong. It is all about Christian fundamentlists..............hardcore southern baptists ( current usa goverment) believes it is their duty to save israel and jews so the messiah will come back and then prophecy of christ's second coming will become true.
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Flores
Agree, The christians also believe that the jews are good and are not meant to convert until Jesus come back in person.......but some people believe that it's the zionist Jews who have played with the Church to avoid christian antisemitism and are working the christians like puppets to satify their agenda........Just theories though.
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Christians killed and kill people, Jewish killed and kill people, both kill people in the past and in the present, both kill spiritual and fisically.So i cannot shut up and cover them.

With all respect about your opinion, but people like you two,that cover this two all dangerous stories,help for flames of hell still burning inocent people.But at the end,all of us we know, that God, will tip the scales in favor of the ones who tried to stop this disorder.


Let me ask you something. in which country do you live?(if you don't want you don't need to answer)

Abdulla: Very interesting--the Christians are backing the evil doer Zionist killers in Israel in order to save the Jews....

But, in the end (excuse the pun) the Jews must convert to Christianity in order to be saved(?).

Talk about being "all screwed up!" * :eek:

*Has anyone talked to theses people about user friendly Buddism?

Abdulla....

Originally posted by IRDÍN
With all respect about your opinion, but people like you two,that cover this two all dangerous stories,help for flames of hell still burning inocent people.But at the end,all of us we know, that God, will tip the scales in favor of the ones who tried to stop this disorder.
Let me ask you something. in which country do you live?(if you don´t want you don´t need to answer)

You are one big licensed professional idiot......Are you now the official scale tipper of god you moron? I'm honored that you send me to hell, because based on your lack of logic, you got things about 180 degrees different that what they should be. We have a great job for you in America....A weather man, you can always be wrong and never loose your job.

Check my profile if you want to know where I live, don't be a lazy bumm.

Now you know why Iran is hard at work perfecting its highly accurate Al- Shabab I & II IRMB's and their nuclear facilities are balls-to-the-wall producing plutonium resources for their SELF DEFENSE needs.

Iranian WMD is much more dangerous than any token Iraqi crap. The Iranians mind you are in very co-operation with the North Koreans, and for a large amount of money, or oil for that matter NK would be ready and willing to give the Iranians what they need. The American- Israeli hegemonic ideas will eventually collapse in a heap of ruble. Now self-defence is questionable in any nuclear states case, it can prevent a war. But if that war was too happen? I don't believe that Iran would nuke anyone, she isn't fanatical enough. I think that Iran is going to become a sticking point in Chinese-American relations. The US got the Israeli's, and Beijing has Tehran. I think a relationship up and coming.

Heeee,Flores que pasa colega,Relaxxx......I didn´t send you to hell,but if you feel you´re on the way, that is your problem,don´t worry, you have time.Look I´m tired to listen theories that do not go to the point.Read this.....

Old Sumerian texts said this :"the Nephilim(in the Bible they´re called Elohim) came from Nibiru to this planet with the intention of take Gold for stabilize the atmosphere of Nibiru.So first they had to ask to the highest consciousness who are the Zetazees(whales and dolphins), who have been here long time before and had come from Oceana in the Sirius system.The Nephilim after a time here in this planet they decided to create a race to work for them,that could not reproduce themselfs.

You still don´t understand.
Inside christians there are a lot of Secret Orders (that today are no more secret)do you know what they like?They like you work for them and till now you didn´t know.KEEP SILENCE IS YOUR JOB!!!(theories,theories,theories give them time to go on)

Vatican,and cossa nosstra live in same land.
Jewish and Christian work together.
Their shops are churches and synagoges,and their product the blind believing.


So don´t loose your faith, because then they cannot control you.

And i tell you i don´t know where i can check from where you´re from.

They don't just do it for fun. Actually, I think they enjoyed thinking of what would be happening after their deaths.

They hate us because Israel treats the Arabs so terribly and we pay the bill for it. Apparently you have not seen how the Arabs treat Israel.

Also, the majority of Arabs are not suicide bombers. The Saudis and Kuwaitis are Arabs. If we can be friendly with those Arabs, why not other Arabs? True, true, the majority of the Arab people are very nice people and live simple lives. I love their culture, and I love their food and language. It is those few bad apples that are spoiling the basket.

And I still cannot see how the relationship between Israel and the US is economically beneficial to the US. Or even militarily. FANTASTIC. You just proved a point that the U.S. does not just do what is benefitial for themselves.

Considering the effective Jewish lobby in Washington, Considering that most Jews vote Democrat, their effective lobby is very effective, which is why the House, Senate, and Presidency are run by Democrats today.

The Pentagon and the Knesset are one What an educated statement.

The Israeli's have obviously smashed human rights in the territories to the point in which dipolomats and journalists are not safe. Likewise for the Palestinians.

Let me ask you something. in which country do you live?(if you don´t want you don´t need to answer) Canuckistan.

You are one big licensed professional idiot...... :D :D Damn flores, I must remember that. Mind if I borrow it occasionally? :D

Apparently you have not seen how the Arabs treat Israel.

Who actually started the cycle of violence in the Levant? The Zionists, Stern & Lehi and the gang terrorists, then the Arab invasion, the Israeli attack on Egypt 1956, and the Annexing of the Sinai,W.Bank,Gaza, Golan in 1967, then even further in 1982 by getting S.Lebanon? It wasn't until 1987 when the first intifada did Israel proper really feel the pinch of terrorism.

You just proved a point that the U.S. does not just do what is benefitial for themselves.

Well speak for yourself the support of Israel is prime on the list for the US' foreign policy agenda, biggest reason obviously being that she is the only force in the region that the US can always rely on.

Considering that most Jews vote Democrat, their effective lobby is very effective, which is why the House, Senate, and Presidency are run by Democrats today

Yes most Jews do vote democrat, but most Baptists and Zionists don't.

What an educated statement.

Ohh no need to flatter, The Knesset and the Pentagon obviously have connection. The DoD is Israel's biggest supports, with Rums, Wolfowitz, and disgraced Israeli spy Perle on one end of the stick and Sharon, Netanyahu, on the other. If my statement wasn't true then why is it that neither wanted to talk to Yasser, both wanted to topple Saddam, etc.?

Likewise for the Palestinians.

I've haven't heard Palestinians attack a diplomatic mission in the Gaza strip have you?

Canuckistan.

Don't like it, leave :D We don't mind.

Some say that all those jews holding key positions in the current administration carry with them Israeli passports and most of them use American names so they can fit in , just as they do in Hollywood . Why are we letting this happen ? those people are not even Americans , only when they need to be then they say they are otherwise they say proudly that they are jews and think they're better than everybody else , but We all know that when the time comes they will turn their backs to this country and and take all our money . That is exactly how they are , they like to go from place to place consuming all resources and when there is nothing else left to be used then they move somewhere else to do the same thing just like parasites.proudly that they are jews

Abdulla: Well, well, finally a person with guts--just like Abdulla!

Yep, you're perfectly correct. The ZioNazi parasites blend in quite well, but when the time comes for them to support America you will see another "Jonathan Pollard" in each of them.

I say the hit lists should include:

1. Richard ( Prince of Darkness ) Perle. Jewish traitor masquarading as an American patriot.
2. Paul Wolfowitz--Jewish draft dodger and Bush CHICKEN HAWK
3. Bill Cheney. Inside trader and oil robber Baron.

Now you know what the German people were going through 1890-1941 when the little guy with the funny mustache sent the Jews an invitation to the "Kristal Night" gala.

AbdullaTheBomber:

Naturally one of the two of you can support these claims with fact?

:m: Peace.

Try: http://www.ericblumrich.com/antiwar2.html

Abdulla....

Originally posted by Abdullathebomber
Try: http://www.ericblumrich.com/antiwar2.html

Abdulla.... Soooo... your answer is "no".
I just wanted to make sure.

:m: Peace.

Originally posted by syrus
...If you want to know the reallity behind the so called holocoust ( which most of them use to obtain what they want , specially money ) read books not written by Jews. Anything else will only tell you lies. Anyways they are doing to us here in the US the same thing they did to Germany. [/B]

Abdulla: And to Czarist Russia before that! :eek:

Abdulla....

Originally posted by goofyfish
Soooo... your answer is "no".
I just wanted to make sure.

:m: Peace.

Abdulla: You can lead a horse to water ---but you can't make him drink!

Oh well!

Abdulla....

PS: But they do have enema's at Walgreen's---so be careful GOOFY! :eek:

Goofy

Naturally one of the two of you can support these claims with fact?


What exactly is it that you do not consider factual ?

Originally posted by Jihad_AlifLamLamHah
Goofy


What exactly is it that you do not consider factual ?

Abdulla: Anyone that only reads The Jerusalem Post, Arutz-7, Maariv and Haaretz Jooish rags has got to have a "skewed" view of the real facts regarding the Joo's.

Abdulla....