Does anyone else feel this way? Reincarnation is more frightening then just ending after death because you don't exist, but you do. Aren't you scared of your memory, love, ideas, and problems you've overcome to be washed from you and you have to start life anew, as someone else? I like ending better.

I think the most scary thing is not knowing what happens!!!!!!
Reincarnation would be wkd tho!!! I want to come back as me ( but taller/cuter and cleverer)!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ink x

I would like to continue, as long as I can keep my memories and personality. Although, like Inka, I would like to be a tad better looking (I'm a rather ugly bastard).

I feel really shallow now!!

That's what I mean though, doesn't the thought of not keeping your experiences, etc. Kind of scare you?

A little bit - but not as much as the thought of losing my face!!

Agree with you though it is a little strange to think about - but no more so than other things. anyway if you were reincarnated you wouldn't remember so would you care???

Maybe you go to another world where you remember the future and not the past or maybe you do remember everything and this is just our first time living??!!

If we did reincarnate, i think the situation would be like it is now, because that would have meant we are currently the result of reincarnation. Does that make sense:confused:

Love

Jan Ardena.

Yeah, but doesn't the idea, as you now, scare you?

;) Sure, the idea of having an interlacing memory behind your own is intriguing, but hardly frightening. I think the idea of having all of our expreinces washed away at the end of our lives would be comforting-it would mean that I don't have to worry about anything but the here and now. You can really abdicate yourlself in terms of sins, crimes, and depressions if you know that in the end, they wil be irrelevant. It's as if eternity is an ocean- you can float about for awhile, but then you are inevitably sucked up by the undertoe and, well, killed.

:D Our experiences aren't so important anyway- we can do without their eternal preservation. Aside from that, we deserve the need to experience without one conscious- living with yourself for eternity can be pretty damn boring. The idea of catharsis can be applied to all areas, you can reinvent yourself, or you can simply 're-become'. Awareness is most important, what follows is just a game.

I just like being the person I am, I've worked for it. And I disagree our experiences may not be that important on the cosmic scale but they shape us as a human being. All the "sins, crimes, and depressions" make us up, I don't like the idea of learning all my lessons over, ot knowing who I originally was, and maybe ending off worse then I did in this life. But maybe that's what I said in my former life........ Oh well if it's true there's not much I can do, besides I can't really care after it happens. Just scares the shit out of me thinking in the before hand.

How good are you? Morality is relevant, so in most lives, no matter how you perceive society, you'll feel like you've accomplished something. You are being selfish by assuming that the small contribution you've made to the world is all you'll ever need...in fact, you (and I mean a collective 'you' not you, Cactus Jack) are most likely afraid of failure to think that there's something wrong with being able to part with your accomplishments. We want to horde ourselves because we are afraid of never being ourselves again. Fact is, we never are oursleves in the first place. We are only mortal bits of catharsis, star dust with no propulsion and only dreams.

SO, instead of dreaming of what you have, dream of what you might have, and feel secure enough about yourslef and your vision that you can abdicate it, in death, and feel optimistic enough to assume that life will come again. If reincarnation is never true, and there is no heaven, no god, or no life but our own, the message is the same. You occupy all lives in the space of one. Living in eternity, one would have an eternal frame of reference, but, we may only have one. That's not bad- in fact it's our eternity. We have it to become eternal with;)

Allright I had some trouble with comprehending your post (no offense). But I'll reply on what I seem to get from it. "Fact is, we never are oursleves in the first place. We are only mortal bits of catharsis, star dust with no propulsion and only dreams. " My dreams, some would consider simple. But I've had to work damn hard to achieve them. We may have no propulsion but I like wandering, and searching. Setting goals and going for them. The idea of learning every life lesson over again, and worse yet not being me, is terrifying. "SO, instead of dreaming of what you have, dream of what you might have, and feel secure enough about yourslef and your vision that you can abdicate it, in death, and feel optimistic enough to assume that life will come again." I don't feel optimistic about life coming again, because it truely won't be 'my life'. It won't be 'me'.

If I missunderstood, I apologize.

If you don't keep your memories isn't that the same as just ceasing to exist? To me it really seems to be the same thing.

From what I read in Indian philosophy and after talking to several Indian Hindu and Buddhist priests....

1. Reincarnation does not exist. It is a suggestion to keep people honest in this life and society...therefore it should not be frightening....

2. Reincarnation is a process by which universe learns and grows. each program could have multiple threads based on the objective of that program. In this scenario, based on your present life, a thread can be queued until all requirements are fulfilled. It is no different that the present thought that the time line can split to multiple worlds based on tampering or events in timeline.

What is frightening is that if we accept the mulriverse where like jet li (ONE) we have multiple counterparts, and each part getting reincarnated...to complete an object...it gets complicated.

What we do not know for sure is that whether documented cases of reincarnation is a case of accessing the akashic records or real. If real, does that mean, at the end of the cycle, somebody puts the programs/experiences together...

If the knowledge of whether reincarnation is real or not, does not affect the way you live....then...it is at best...interesting...at worst...who cares....

Well I've just come to accept it. If its what happens after we die I have no say, and now I don't care. Hell is probably a better alternative to just "ending" so I don't care.

It would suck soooo bad!!!
I mean, that means you would keep coming back and seeing the earth die and the air turn to poison and everybody die in huge nuclear explosions!!! AAAAAAAGH!!!:eek:

Originally posted by Lesion42
It would suck soooo bad!!!
I mean, that means you would keep coming back and seeing the earth die and the air turn to poison and everybody die in huge nuclear explosions!!! AAAAAAAGH!!!:eek:

Not unless your master self wanted that way...:D

explain.:confused:

Mabey you dont have to come back mabey your soul, spirit or what not can choose to come back if it wants. What scares me about reincarnation is the fact that you might live in pain fear or sickness just to have the chance to live it again.

Suppose you are a poor person and experiencing how the poor live, then you decided that it would be nice to know how a rich person lives - so after your physical death, you will come back as a rich person. But... if you went from rich to poor...your mentality would be different and that except your understanding of the poorness, you will not have a desire to come back as rich, you will accept the status cuo...another but...you may have other strong wishes such as some back as female or a priest or whatever your spirit plans are.

At least that is the theory...

I have been told by a few psychics many years ago regarding this and my life is heading in that direction. Wild guess perhaps. The proof of the pudding is what is going to happen in 15 years. If that happens, then may be this reincarnation thing is for real....until then, my mouth is sealed. :D

When I die, my brain is going to rot in the ground along with the rest of what used to be me, therefore eliminating my chances of reincarnation. May seem a little grim but I like to stay firmly grounded in reality.

....reality???....

Eh? I don't understand the connotation.

Edit:

Thought I'd share a 'poem' about what Atheists think of death.


Being Dead
I know that on my death, the atoms that have been my body and brain, and created my mind, will return to the universe.

They'll stay around on Earth for millions of years, inhabiting the bodies of countless people and other organisms, but eventually, aeons from now, they will return to the great engines of creation that formed them. The stars.

When the earth is a sterile, charred rock,
my body will be part of stars, planets, comets' tails
and brightly shining nebulae.

Some of me will briefly fuel a distant sun and be burnt into energy,
and the photons that were once me will skim the edges of the universe,
spiral into black holes,
and maybe illuminate the face of a child looking at the night sky for the very first time.

This is immortality.

This is life and this is death.

This is me.

(by Adrian Barnett I believe)

[QUOTE]Originally posted by jjhlk

(exert from poem;)

....They'll stay around on Earth for millions of years, inhabiting the bodies of countless people and other organisms, but eventually, aeons from now, they will return to the great engines of creation that formed them. The stars.

Who created the stars?

Love

Jan Ardena.

Ah, but nobody created the stars.

But i'm hardly an astronomer, so I'll have to leave it at that.
Science has a lot of depth, and I only know so much.

Originally posted by jjhlk
Ah, but nobody created the stars.

But i'm hardly an astronomer, so I'll have to leave it at that.
Science has a lot of depth, and I only know so much.


If you know for sure that nobody created the stars, then you know alot more than your letting on.;)

Love

Jan Ardena.

The concept of reincarnation isnt terribly frightening to me. Although I seek to obtain the Buddha state where I will be reborn no more.

How would you know if you will be reborn or not? You can do life long Buddha stuff but just before you die, if you say, "I wish I had a son who could do this for me" - you will be back.....

Like communism - it works great on theory but in practice....

Originally posted by kmguru
How would you know if you will be reborn or not? You can do life long Buddha stuff but just before you die, if you say, "I wish I had a son who could do this for me" - you will be back.....

Like communism - it works great on theory but in practice....
Im not saying that I know for a fact I will be reborn. but it is my belief.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by kmguru
How would you know if you will be reborn or not?

We do not know anything for sure and nobody can prove anything unless we understand it for ourselves. The only way to gain knowledge and insight to anything, in this present condition, is from an authority.
How do we know who is the right authority?
We know someone to be an authority on the basis that they can deliver the correct method, one who can open our eyes so that we ourselves can perceive and actually experience the truth. But it is not a simple process.

Love

Jan Ardena.

?? but your memory will live on in other living people. In the form of history. So I'm not scared of getting my memory washed away.

Assuming that I believe this!!

Interesting discussion! Many of you have put a lot of thought into the business of reincarnation. I can tell by the responses.

My beliefs.....You are whatever you choose to be. If you choose to be afraid of reincarnation then that you will be. I don't feel that you will be afraid for long, because you will choose again. All of life as well as death are choices (free will). The choices we make creates our realities, either collectively or individually. We are creators (created in the likeness of God).

I fear losing all i've come to learn about life and myself. I fear that reincarnation will have a hellish fate instore for me if my life lessons are lost. I fear that i will be a republican or worse the next Bill O' Riley!!!!!

But i do wonder if we are clean slates missing everything that we think make us thinking beings then what is there to reincarnate?

From what I understand, the goal of reincarnation is to achieve Nirvana. I am not really familiar with these religions and could be completely off track here. But I have always understood the state of nirvana as one of complete void and bliss. Nirvana, as I understand it, is the RELEASE from the cycle of suffering which is life. So instead of saying that one should live a good moral life in order to AVOID hell, these type religions say that one IS in hell and should live a good and moral life to be released from it. It denies escape, even in death, to those who do not make the right decisions in life. Much as do other western religions.

kmguru
Reincarnation does not exist. It is a suggestion to keep people honest in this life and society...therefore it should not be frightening....

I find this extremly interesting pls elaborate more. Its not a tactic that has not been seen before ei: The Hindu stories made to teach the common people of elightenment.

Do people need the ever present fear of a god (some kind of reward or punishment) to make them act "good". Why does its matter if morality is absolutly true and written in the stars we are not all knowing and yet we still live. Moraliy may or may not be relevent but its important to the people on this earth. Its important to me to help others and relive even the smallest bit of suffering that I can. Life is suffering and I realize that some times suffering is the only way to learn but endless suffering with out hope is hell. Is the idea of reincarnation just that hope. Is it like tell in some one who has a terrminal illness that they are going to be okay. False hope you know its an out right lie. If these "yogis" had truly reached a state of being where everything was groovy then couldn't they offer any real and lasting hope? Hope being a human concept I am aware. But then there allways is the possibility that all they really where was people pretending simply to give the people hope. I see that as truly a possiblity since it is easy to decieve and philosophy has little to do with enlighenment. Ei: i knew this one guy who was raised by incredibly deep parents and learned many thing but he only learned with the intellect and that is where all was stored. hH did not have a better undestanding of the world or any really peace of mind rather he lived and still lives in torment. All that he learned throught life and experience remained lessons that only the intellectual mind access to. He knows many things but cannot apply them to his life. he cannot undestand why so in turn his heart has closes of and he tries not to feel his own pain. He hurt others not because he is evil and hate filled but because he has only words clutering his head. So then i just say bewae of philosophy if you don't take it to the heart.

:bugeye: Hungry now must make lunch

Not to simplify things too much, but all choices come initially from fear or love. When you can break it down and learn to choose love every time then you will begin to discover the real control you have. That is what the masters have always done. There message of hope is just that you too can choose love every time. We then get into the discussion of 'free will'. What do we think free will is? Is it truly free will to choose anything if there is a punishment of hell for choosing wrong? What if God didn't care how you chose? Would you still make the same decisions on life matters?

I think, the bottom line is to be happy. Our sensory awareness and perception is geared that way for survival as well as in death. Consider the OBE incidents. Those who returned from almost death report a calm and happy state of death.

So, it occurs to me that one can make decisions to stay happy not just today, tomorrow but until one dies. There are things one should not do, because consequences could be unhappy.

So, I say, dont worry and be happy - let the nature do the rest. After all, no matter what you do, one day you will die and perhaps the mankind will be extinct just like the dinosaurs - that much is certain....

...and the taxes....:)

Ok, so if re-incarnation is a tactic used for hapiness, then it's a succesful one... But what tactic shall we use to reach truth? It seems to me the truth existed before we did. Now imagine we never came in to the picture... Why would the truth be so catering to life? Doesn't make sence does it? NOw lets say life is an inevitable out come of the truthes of this universe thus it would make total sence that certain areas of the universe keep life here... And suppose hapiness is required for survival, then hapiness WOULD be catered to by the universe... BUT, what if it was only catered to a certain point.... But we are smart enough now, to cater to our own needs, and further ourselves, thus we create fairy tales such as heaven, hell, reincarnation, karma to insure our mental survival. This my dilema. I have no evidence suggesting hapiness even being real... Thus I am forced to side with a cold and uncaring universe filled with warm caring idiots (myself included).

On the point of happiness...When do you feel happy? Is it when you choose from love or from fear? Not just love for yourself but love for others. When we make the conscious choice of love (which in it's varing degrees include: compassion, generosity, sharing, caring, etc.) then we feel happy. When we make decisions based on fear (anger, jealousy, bitterness, envy, spite, etc.) they don't make us feel happy or good about ourselves.

Recarnation? If only the evolutionary rate was higher each time (cool) however I wondered if it was a higher or lower evolution in the Buddist or Hindi religion......... I forget.

What scares the most about reincarnation is the possibility of becoming one of those bugs that love shit. :eek:

Hm if I could choose I'd reincarnate as a sloth in a remote jungle with no danger around me and my mind/memories intact, so that I may contemplate and daydream and nap ALL MY LIFE. And leave some inscriptions on stone to shock the holy fuck out of explorers.

__________________________________________
There is no god, afterlife or divine love. There is only Entropy, the mother from which we were all born. She tugs our souls with the beautiful, maternal love of chaos. Why do you keep Her waiting?

-central philosophy of Zero, Sage of Chaos

Suppose reincarnation were real AND suppose there were aliens... Would our cycle of life be restricted to earth?

Mieh mabye but strickly in "mumbo jumbo" theory. Considering a soul is not an accepted scientific theory. I would think any spirit would still be drawn to the enrgy of the earth, not able to escape the atmopsphere pull. Unless it was strong enough to provide adequate propulsion. But If a planet where to blow up and send a chunck of rock through space down to earth. Then It could be possible. I guess....

Sorry, what!?!?!? Chunk of earth? I wasn't suggesting souls are limited to "earth" as in it is in the planet, I meant, would the cycle of life be limited to the living beings ON earth, or could it reach another planet with life on it...

I was pretty much just theorising that spirits would ahve there own eco-system. And that they where restrected by certain forces as well

So if earth were hit by a meteor and humans scattered all over the universe, they'd be the last generation, since the souls couldn't reach anyone else?

Well they wouldn't be held to the earth any more. Know more earth to pull them. THey might get pulled towards another large force or just drift?

OR... And stay with me on this one... It may be the simplest and most logical outcome... They may just die...

Does energy die?

Does it live?

Maybe I should reincarnate as that meteor.

__________________________________________
There is no god, afterlife or divine love. There is only Entropy, the mother from which we were all born. She tugs our souls with the beautiful, maternal love of chaos. Why do you keep Her waiting?

Aim for me!!! Aim for me!!!!:D

Oih:eek:

*starts warmup*
BONZAI!! :D

__________________________________________
There is no god, afterlife or divine love. There is only Entropy, the mother from which we were all born. She tugs our souls with the beautiful, maternal love of chaos. Why do you keep Her waiting?

Dear Friends,

Yoga says s different story about reincarnation. At the time of death our souls desire is fulfilled in the next birth. You may ask why then choose the bad life ? Correct..but read again I said “soul” our soul is so perfect to understand that we need to achieve that “Karama Paripakam” (finishing what it takes to leverage yourself to the supreme self) so as to enjoy for the good we did, and to suffer for the bad we did. What do you consider better, to be born as a dog treated like a king in Las Vegas or to be born as girl in a poor state of India to be treated like a dog. If a person who is given the chance to choose between these two which one indicates the result of Good or Bad ?

So which is good and which is bad ? or do you think both are bad, then what do you think is the good is ? Good food, good life, good fame, good family, good everything. Lets assume if the King Dog of Las Vegas has it all, then also would you choose that ?

What is it that stops you from choosing it. I have the answer, YOUR SOUL. Yes it know only a human being has the greatest power to think about GOD. No animal posses it, no robots posses it no other living creature can think of it, nor be trained. So why choose to be a human being, to think of the lord, to do more to acquire Karma Paripakam, to go to him. As if like getting ready to me the president. So we are all in the queue !

What about reincarnation ? Yes its there. How did you born with the music sense ? Who taught you ? Why are you searching for the truth ? Who asked you to do that. My dear friends its all from the last birth. Both Music and Meditations are the investments in the eternal journey. You invest its going to be there with you till you reach him, the supreme.

I myself is getting bored. Stopping here.

Reach me for more dull dose.

Ha ha ha

Reincarnation is simply our ego's inability to conceptualize it's own non-existance; it's own end...