Recently I was curious and ended up subscribing to a site on "Reality". I am told, the postings should follow the following standards. Just thought you guys should know, how liberal we are here.

"Discussions of speculative science are acceptable on this list,
but pseudoscience, fringe science and anti-science are not. Posts
of this nature will be rejected. If you try to breach this rule
often, you may be unsubscribed. Posts promoting any religion, or
the paranormal, telepathy, dowsing, ESP, fortune-telling, crystal
balls, psychic phenomena, UFOs, alien abduction, faith healing,
weeping statues, mysticism, spiritualism, witches, witch-doctors,
magic, out-of-body experiences, near-death experiences, auras,
crop circles, and the like, are inappropriate and will not be
tolerated on this List."

Tell yourself - crop circles does not exist - it is not reality - it is human imagination. same for "faith healing" - placibo does not exist, even the documents by pharmaceutical companies do not exist....

A mailinglist from the US I pesume? :( So things that actually work, like placibo's are in fact spam then on that mailinglist.

Well, it fugires. We Americans are obvious not the Free Thinkers they want us to believe we are.

So much for the freedom of speech then, at least, what the mailinglist concerns. Seems to me, the owners of the mailinlist have a little bit much a narrow-minded view on "reality". It's not omly that what is proven with scientific facts. There are a lot of things still unsolved, which do work and for which is no (scientific) explanation found yet.

Makes me wonder. :rolleyes:

Where is this site?

I may want to start spamming them with "innappropiate material"

Thanks, a good idea, but I have better things to do with my time...If we try to educate every idiot, my life will be over before I get through the first one.... :D

Im on summer vacation so i don't have anything better to do. :D

Whoever owns the site is free to run it however he or she chooses. It's their site, not yours. You can always set up your own web page in opposition.

<i>Tell yourself - crop circles does not exist - it is not reality - it is human imagination. same for "faith healing" - placibo does not exist, even the documents by pharmaceutical companies do not exist....</i>

Crop circles exist. They are made by humans.
Faith healing doesn't work.
Placebos are a well-documented medical effect.
Pharmaceutical company documents certainly exist...

Originally posted by James R

Pharmaceutical company documents certainly exist...
That actually depends whether they are in legal trouble. If someone is suing them, then the documents did exist but no longer do.

Faith healing (touch healing) does work - I have done that in my meditation class. However I attribute that to 'Placibo effect' since I do not know the mechanism through which it works.

Crop circles exist. They are made by humans.

So how can they be made in one night and are so perfect and simetrical...?

<i>So how can they be made in one night and are so perfect and simetrical...?</i>

More than one human.
A bit of surveying.

More than one human.
A bit of surveying.

Are you kidding? One night? Do you know that they already tried it and it was a disaster...? :bugeye: :eek: :o

And radiation... the way the crop was burned... etc...?

It is really difficult to create such a symmetrical design specifically using a bunch of people that have no sense of pattern in the middle of the night. Just try to make a circle in the air by two hands simultaneously finger opposed to one another in circle-counter-circle.

Having said that - if money is no object, I will do this way. Go to the intended field and carefully spray paint using a UV sensitive but clear paint, your design. That way, even if you comeback two days later, no body will see anything. Then gather your friends and carry some black light lanterns (just replace the battery powered fluorescent light tubes with the blacklight ones). You can see the markers easily. Then do your stuff....stomp on them evenly etc....

I think a magician could come up with a better method....

<i>Are you kidding? One night? Do you know that they already tried it and it was a disaster...?</i>

I've seen it tried, and it was very successful. Doesn't take very long either.

<i>And radiation... the way the crop was burned... etc...?</i>

The crops usually are not burned, and I've never heard of any instance where radiation levels were above normal.

Why is that an UFO always produces radiation? That would kill everybody on board. These advanced specis are still in the dark ages of nuclear power?......:D

Be realistic...:bugeye: :eek:
Read what kmguru posted...:bugeye:

So how can they be made in one night and are so perfect and simetrical...?

I actually seen a documentary on these. And they are human made. They had infored (SP) cameras that caught a bunch of guys in England making a crop circle. I really cant prove it, but I did see it with my own eyes.

OR, it could of been a cover up conspiracy:D

You people just don't get it, do you? We're never going to believe you. To hand us papers and scientific laws and say, "We're right, you're wrong, and if you don't believe like us then your stupid," is pointless.

Those papers and laws mean just as much to us as our beliefs and words mean to you: not a shit. See, you believe that everything must follow scientific laws and logic. We believe there are things out there that are pre-date those laws and can by far defy them. Well, at least I do anyways. Can't really speak for the other people on the board. But to say, "Here, this the evidence. In these papers. See, I'm right. You're not!" is not really doing very much.

You people just sit around reading books, or articles off the internet, and take another man's word for it. You should try some of these religions or alien huntings for yourself. Then you can tell us what you want. Until then we're not going to believe you. Eat your hearts out trying to convince us idiots though.

BTW, why do you peoples hound us so hard for believing? Its not like we'll burn in hell for believing wrong--if we're wrong.

Well Stone, this is a hard question and an easy one all at the same time. I won't speak for everyone, but here's my answer. There is no reason to believe.

To me, all you seem like is a person who believes things without any proof. To me, that sounds something like an idiot. Let me put it this way, how intelligent would you say I am if I told you I believe that Wayne Gretzky is actually an alien from the planet Kargon-5 in another dimension and the reason he was so good at hockey was because his brain is advanced enough to comprehend the fact that gravity doesn't exist. I would hope you would look at me as something of a moron if I said that.

Well, there's about as much proof for my theory as there is for yours. And there's absolutely no way to disprove my theory.



"BTW, why do you peoples hound us so hard for believing? Its not like we'll burn in hell for believing wrong--if we're wrong."

Again, I can't speak for everyone. The reason I hound people for believing useless and illogical things is because I don't understand you. I cannot comprehend the idea of believing a groundless theory and being so closed-minded as to be convinced you're right. Those scientific laws you knock so much come from years of observation and experimentation. Your ideas come from groundless theory. I believe there's a decent chance many things I see as true could later be proved as wrong. Most theists I have encountered (especially those who visit this forum) would sooner believe my Gretzky theory than believe they may be wrong.

How to Build a Universe That Doesn't Fall Apart Two Days Later (http://www.id-online.de/ufo/pkdhowt2.htm), by Philip K. Dick; 1978
Though he runs out of logic toward the end, it's worth the read.

Originally posted by *stRgrL*


I actually seen a documentary on these. And they are human made. They had infored (SP) cameras that caught a bunch of guys in England making a crop circle. I really cant prove it, but I did see it with my own eyes.

OR, it could of been a cover up conspiracy

I have seen a similar one in the TLC. To setup infrared cameras, one has to know when the group will strike next or the aliens for that matter. This sounds fishy to me. Just because you can not explain something, one has to invent an explanation.

Wait a minute....I can not believe I said that: Did not man created God to explain the unexplainable?

Dragon Stone,

I surely agree with you... :)

TruthSeeker, thank you.

To me, all you seem like is a person who believes things without any proof. To me, that sounds something like an idiot. Let me put it this way, how intelligent would you say I am if I told you I believe that Wayne Gretzky is actually an alien from the planet Kargon-5 in another dimension and the reason he was so good at hockey was because his brain is advanced enough to comprehend the fact that gravity doesn't exist. I would hope you would look at me as something of a moron if I said that.
Yes, I'd have to say you sound like an idiot there. That is a really lame attempt at trying to capture how we think. People who think like that are the believers who sit around and read the tabloids and hide whenever it says aliens are attacking! We're not like that. We think differently. I can't explain how we think--there are just too many ways to count--but we don't think like that.

Well, there's about as much proof for my theory as there is for yours. And there's absolutely no way to disprove my theory.
Yes, and you usually can't disprove our theories either. We don't take the path of science because it will lead us to a dead end. If we use science then we'll never find the truth.

Those scientific laws you knock so much come from years of observation and experimentation.
Those religions you knock so much have been around for centuries and they have more proof in them than any scientific laws that have ever been dreamed up.

The reason I hound people for believing useless and illogical things is because I don't understand you. I cannot comprehend the idea of believing a groundless theory and being so closed-minded as to be convinced you're right.
We don't think we're right, but we don't think we're wrong either. We are just exploring the possibilites and giving our 100% trying to find the truth. That's what we're all about. Is that so hard to understand?

I believe there's a decent chance many things I see as true could later be proved as wrong.
We all take that chance. Again, we're out there to find the truth. So if that means we are proven wrong, then so be it. We are not afraid of being proven wrong. Sometimes, we'd probably even welcome it.

Most theists I have encountered (especially those who visit this forum) would sooner believe my Gretzky theory than believe they may be wrong.
Yeah, I've noticed that.

"Yes, I'd have to say you sound like an idiot there. That is a really lame attempt at trying to capture how we think. People who think like that are the believers who sit around and read the tabloids and hide whenever it says aliens are attacking! We're not like that. We think differently. I can't explain how we think--there are just too many ways to count--but we don't think like that."

There is no proof in what you believe. So it's the same thing.


"Yes, and you usually can't disprove our theories either. We don't take the path of science because it will lead us to a dead end. If we use science then we'll never find the truth."

Disprove my theory on Wayne Gretzky dumb-dumb. Can you? See how it's still the same thing?

What do you mean by the truth? Are you Nelson Part Deux? What do you mean it leads to a dead end? Because science can't answer every question? Eventually, most half-intelligent people realize that not knowing the answer to everything is fine.


"Those religions you knock so much have been around for centuries and they have more proof in them than any scientific laws that have ever been dreamed up."

Hahahahahah! You're a funny girl! First of all, the idea that something has been around for centuries does not even suggest it is true! For even longer than Christianity people believed the Earth was flat or that we were the centre of the Universe. Does it make it true dumb-dumb?

And what truth in religion?



"We don't think we're right, but we don't think we're wrong either. We are just exploring the possibilites and giving our 100% trying to find the truth. That's what we're all about. Is that so hard to understand?"

Yes it is. You're willing to do everything to find your truth except accept some facts. In my experience with conspiracy theorists and new agers, people believe what they want to believe. No matter the proof against them.


"We all take that chance. Again, we're out there to find the truth. So if that means we are proven wrong, then so be it. We are not afraid of being proven wrong. Sometimes, we'd probably even welcome it."

Then welcome to sciforums, I am glad to be introduced to the first one of you who will ever admitt they're wrong.

Yes, and you usually can't disprove our theories either. We don't take the path of science because it will lead us to a dead end. If we use science then we'll never find the truth.

No, DragonStone, you will never find what you want to find. You will find the truth, but not the truth that you want.

Your beautiful theories will be demolished by facts. This is the way of science. This is the way of reality.

Those religions you knock so much have been around for centuries and they have more proof in them than any scientific laws that have ever been dreamed up.

I would like to know more of these proofs. What are they?

We don't think we're right, but we don't think we're wrong either. We are just exploring the possibilites and giving our 100% trying to find the truth. That's what we're all about. Is that so hard to understand?

And how will you be relatively sure that you have found the truth?

We all take that chance. Again, we're out there to find the truth. So if that means we are proven wrong, then so be it. We are not afraid of being proven wrong. Sometimes, we'd probably even welcome it.

Spoken like a true scientist. :cool:

Then welcome to sciforums, I am glad to be introduced to the first one of you who will ever admitt they're wrong.
Well, maybe I am.

Disprove my theory on Wayne Gretzky dumb-dumb. Can you? See how it's still the same thing?
Two things can demolish that theory.

One, you don't believe in things like that. Your atheist.

Two, its obvious you made it up off the top of your head. You don't state it, but its obvious.

Hahahahahah! You're a funny girl! First of all, the idea that something has been around for centuries does not even suggest it is true! For even longer than Christianity people believed the Earth was flat or that we were the centre of the Universe. Does it make it true dumb-dumb?
Its only in our century science and religion have been seperated. So those beliefs are both due in part to religion and science.

And what truth in religion?
True, not all that was believed is true. But its simple enough to tell the difference between a person's superstious (sp?) story and a person's actual factual sight and belief.

In simpler terms, some of it is truth and some of it is lies. Doesn't take a rocket-scientist to tell which one is the fraud.

In my experience with conspiracy theorists and new agers, people believe what they want to believe. No matter the proof against them.
You're right. We do have a tendancy to do that. Sorry, deal with it. But you also believe what you want to believe and shut everything else out. So don't talk. And if we're not right, it doesn't work, and it comes to a quick stop.

And how will you be relatively sure that you have found the truth?
Gut-feeling. Its really quite a weird thing. When you're finished, you feel accomplished. You just know. Not a lot to base it off. I know you're thinking "What the hell? Yeah right, bitch." But that's just how you know...

Your beautiful theories will be demolished by facts. This is the way of science. This is the way of reality.
They will not be demolished by you're beliefs or what not. They will flourish with my own beliefs or fall by my own beliefs and no one elses. Sorry.

Dragon

PS Don't argue with me here. This is my, our, territory and you'll never win. Its fun just to sit back and laugh at you people though.

"Well, maybe I am."

Then you'll demand a substantially larger amount of respect from myself compared to most who believe pseudosciences. Honeslty.


"Two things can demolish that theory.
One, you don't believe in things like that. Your atheist.
Two, its obvious you made it up off the top of your head. You don't state it, but its obvious."

For starters, while it is COMPLETELY illogical, there are atheists who believe in pseudoscience faiths. You'll find if you discuss anything with myself or 99% of the atheists/agnostics here that we're mostly too logical to contradict our logic in atheism with blind faith in pseudo. Secondly, it is quite obvious I made it up of the top of my head. But that means nothing.

The two things you stated are suggestive evidence, and neither one in any way proves my theory false. If I found you someone who honestly believed it, would you then say it is probably true?

Also, a good amount of pseudo beliefs come from people making up things off the top of their heads.



"Its only in our century science and religion have been seperated. So those beliefs are both due in part to religion and science."

Not true. Have you read scientific or philosophical history? While it's true that religion has constantly attempted to hinder science, there has always been those who risk everything to examine science without a pesky god getting in the way.



"True, not all that was believed is true. But its simple enough to tell the difference between a person's superstious (sp?) story and a person's actual factual sight and belief.
In simpler terms, some of it is truth and some of it is lies. Doesn't take a rocket-scientist to tell which one is the fraud"

Whether someone truly believes something or not is completely useless. Jews will tell you hands down that it's a fact Jesus never existed. Christians wil tell you hands down that it's a fact Jesus existed and was the son of God. Christians will tell you hands down that it's a fact Mohammed was not a prophet of God. Moslems will tell you hands down that it's a fact Mohammed was a prophet of God. All these people believe with the same faith in there 'truth'. See how the 'inner feeling' theory doesn't work?


"You're right. We do have a tendancy to do that. Sorry, deal with it. But you also believe what you want to believe and shut everything else out. So don't talk. And if we're not right, it doesn't work, and it comes to a quick stop."

I believe in undeniable facts like gravity and such. When someone presents an unusual but not impossible idea I'm open to debate (though I admitt I most often begin the debate with a very skeptical mind). However, when someone like Nelson suggests that the number 0 is equal to infinity......well, I definetly am closed minded because he's just plain wrong.


"Gut-feeling. Its really quite a weird thing. When you're finished, you feel accomplished. You just know. Not a lot to base it off. I know you're thinking "What the hell? Yeah right, bitch." But that's just how you know..."

Like I said, some people have a gut feeling in Christ as the only savior, others in Mohammed, others in Buddhism........ If so many different people get the exact same gut feeling for different 'truths' how can you possibly think any of them are right based on the 'gut feeling'?


"PS Don't argue with me here. This is my, our, territory and you'll never win. Its fun just to sit back and laugh at you people though."

You start claiming things like 0 = infinite and you better fucking believe we'll get on your case and laugh our ass off at you.

Dragon Stone:
Gut-feeling. Its really quite a weird thing. When you're finished, you feel accomplished. You just know. Not a lot to base it off. I know you're thinking "What the hell? Yeah right, bitch." But that's just how you know...

There's no real knowledge there. You'll never know if you know.

But, meh, whatever.

They will not be demolished by you're beliefs or what not. They will flourish with my own beliefs or fall by my own beliefs and no one elses.

Facts. Not my beliefs, but by the facts.

Sorry.

Don't be.

P.S: Never try to tell me what to do.

Originally posted by TruthSeeker

So how can they be made in one night and are so perfect and simetrical...?

Ropes, a measuring tape, and stakes. A compass might be helpful too. Also a flat board.

First, you draw out how you want it to look the day before. You go out that night, drive a stake into the ground. Measure a length of rope to match the radius of the circle you want to make. Tie one end of the rope to the stake, the other around your waist. Walk out until the rope is taut. Turn 90 degrees. Walk forward on the flat board, keeping the rope taut at all times. You will very quickly come back to your starting point, having described a beautiful circle. Shorten the rope in progressive stages to fully trample a whole circle.

For straight lines, drive a stake in the ground, then use the measuring tape to ark off how long you want the line, and drive another stake at the end. Walk along the line, keeping it rubbing against your hip, crushing the crop in front of you with the board.

For arcs, use a combination of these two methods.

Doing this, you can make very complex designs very quickly. Very low tech. Everything you need could be obtained form a local hardware store.

How do we know this? Because the drunken yorkshiremen who started the whole thing demonstrated it step by step. With cameras rolling, they made a perfect crop circle with ropes and boards. Took them about 3 hours.

END OF STORY.

Here is an interesting webpage on crop circle:

http://www.paradigmshift.com/pecs.html

Northwind,

"Physical changes of plants and soil - not only does the physical appearance of seem to change (it looks dehydrated), but there is change at the molecular level. Research has been conducted over a ten year period with samples and thorough laboratory testing carried out by the biophysicist Dr. Levengood, Nancy Talbott, and John Burks -- the BLT Research Team, and a small army of volunteers worldwide. Their findings include enlarged cell walls, expulsion cavities in the nodes of the plant stalks, significantly extended node lengths, and changes to the soil composition (ie. vastly higher level of magnetite concentration) from samples taken within the crop formations in contrast to the control samples taken from outside the circles. "

What have I said...

"Emit sound at 5KHz frequency - Researchers have measured a distinct emission of energy at 5KHz eminating from fresh (few days after formed) crop circles. This corresponds to reports of eye-witnesses who often claim to hear a "trilling" sound coming from the direction of the formations. "

"Anomalous EM measurements - By doing a fluxgate magnetometer survey of several formations, Colin Andrews determined that the very center of these circles measured 40-50 nano Teslas. This is 10 times the radiation level of a normal field. "

What have I said...

...

<i>Anomalous EM measurements - By doing a fluxgate magnetometer survey of several formations, Colin Andrews determined that the very center of these circles measured 40-50 nano Teslas. This is 10 times the radiation level of a normal field.</i>

'fraid not. The Earth's magnetic field is 50,000 nano-Tesla. That would completely swamp any field of 40-50 nano-Tesla, making it unmeasurable. This Colin Andrews guy is obviously an amateur.

???
Well... I don't understand that... so I can't discuss it...

Quoth Truthseeker

Well... I don't understand that... so I can't discuss it...

No surprises here.

Will someone be using this marvelous quote in their signature ? It is truly a gem. ;)