When countries mix religion and politics is it possible that their leaders try to make religious prophesy come true, either intentionally or unintentionally? Take Dubyah for instance, a true talk-to-God Bible thumper, he's undoubtedly read in his Christian bible all about Armegeddon. Sorry but in some way I can see him wanting this to come true. He's in a position to make it happen. Throw in other countries run by other religious leaders with their own religious agenda and you have a powder keg. The mere fact that when religious bible stories predicting cataclysmic events are in the hands of religious madmen(leaders), it becomes a driving force behind some decisions that lead to bringing prophesies to life. But is it a true prophesy?

Its scary. Its taking doomsday book writing and by sheer will, making it happen. Iran wants nukes, Israel probably won't let it happen but if it does I can see Dubyah riding in as one of the horsemen. It will get messy then but Christians can rejoice because the bible said it would happen. To me the only thing happening is insane individuals with a lot of power, deeply religious, spurred on by their own prophesies trying to make their bibles the ultimate word of God, turning fiction into non-fiction.

The rest of us will suffer for it.

PE Bush is the anti-Christ. @ least this guy thinks so, and this guy really does his homework in this mythological bs, so you be the judge.

Bush the Anti-Christ. (http://www.geocities.com/trebor_92627/Bush.htm)

Godless

The prophesy is true indeed. Many who seek to accelerate the Day of the Lord will be caught up in its destruction.

Amos 5:
18 Woe to you who desire the day of the LORD! For what good the day of the LORD to you? It darkness, and not light.

Daniel 11:
14 . " Now in those times many shall rise up against the king of the South. Also, violent men of your people shall exalt themselves in fulfillment of the vision, but they shall fall.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

Its not prophesy. 2000 years ago Joe Shmo could have written a doomsday book outlining The Earth's final days. If someone turned it into a religion between then and now, undoubtedly someone would try to make it come true. This is what's happening.What is this fascination with death and destruction we see from a lot of organized religion? Its totally bizarre. Can't they just respect each other and leave it at that?

Besides losing your mind its the biggest danger of organized religion with a doomsday book as its bible. Its not the first for Christianity....Christians have been in the final days for hundreds of years. The Crusades was another attempt to push prophesy. The bottom line is you can't have religious freaks running a country. Think about it, even if we mix politics and religion there is still one condition required to complete the prophesy and that's hate, served up in spades whenever religious leaders take control of their country, and Bush is no exception.

It is prophesy and it is coming to pass before our very eyes. It matters little if people are trying to make it happen or not. It is coming to pass, chance, desire, circumstance. Whatever the blend of reasons, it is coming true because it is true.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

What is happening in the world today regarding politics and religion, is no different to what has always been happening. The day of the lord has been arriving on a regular basis for 2000 years.

Christ will return when people understand what it means. He has already returned to some places. "The kingdom of heaven is within you"

It is prophesy and it is coming to pass before our very eyes. It matters little if people are trying to make it happen or not. It is coming to pass, chance, desire, circumstance. Whatever the blend of reasons, it is coming true because it is true.

Sorry Adstar but it does matter if someone is making it happen. Not something to be rejoicing about. The people who are trying to make it happen are under the influence of mind altering gibberish they've taken to be gospel. It can't be prophesy if its already spelled out for someone to act on. If they think making it happen guarantees them a ticket to paradise then they are no different than our friendly neighborhood suicide bomber.

I would suspect that there were many forboding parchments written in the past by oppressed peoples with no hope, its just that some became religious text because it gave them hope, yours no exception. The most powerful nations back then certainly didn't go around preaching doom and gloom, life was good.

Sorry Adstar but it does matter if someone is making it happen. Not something to be rejoicing about.

And i assure you i am not rejoicing in the terrible days to come. Like a pregnant woman does not look forward to the pain of childbirth but looks forward to the child. So to do true Christians not look forward to the tribulation that we will go through or the wrath the world will face before the coming of the Messiah Jesus.



The people who are trying to make it happen are under the influence of mind altering gibberish they've taken to be gospel.

No. What they are under the control of is a doctrine called "kingdom theology" that is the belief that it is their duty to bring about the Kingdom before the return of the Messiah. Their theology is a belief that they will somehow deliver the world to Jesus on a plate as some kind of gift upon His return. The same kind of theology is held by islam, that being, that followers of allah must struggle through jihad until the world is totally under the control of islam and all people proclaim muhammed as the true prophet of allah.

Those who are under the influence of the Gospel Know that it is the returning Messiah Jesus that will establish the Kingdom of the Messiah by His might and power. Jesus needs no human warriors to achieve His Kingdom.

Matthew 26
51 And suddenly, one of those who were with Jesus stretched out his hand and drew his sword, struck the servant of the high priest, and cut off his ear.
52 But Jesus said to him, “Put your sword in its place, for all who take the sword will perish by the sword. 53 Or do you think that I cannot now pray to My Father, and He will provide Me with more than twelve legions of angels? 54 How then could the Scriptures be fulfilled, that it must happen thus?”

It can't be prophesy if its already spelled out for someone to act on. If they think making it happen guarantees them a ticket to paradise then they are no different than our friendly neighborhood suicide bomber.

Exactly I agree. They are no different from a suicide bomber. But the actions of many free willed individuals will play a part in the fulfillment of these prophesies, But unfortunately for most, their parts, and their belief in lies will condemn them to take no part in the positive eternal consequences of the fulfillment of these prophesies.

I would suspect that there were many forboding parchments written in the past by oppressed peoples with no hope, its just that some became religious text because it gave them hope, yours no exception. The most powerful nations back then certainly didn't go around preaching doom and gloom, life was good.

Of course life is good for the powers that be. If your logic held true then once the catholic church went into partnership with the roman empire all these prophesies would have been removed. But they survived didn't they. Even though the bearer of them was sitting on easy street in palatial churches. So your logic is partly true and partly faulty. Your conclusions are also partly true and partly faulty.



All Praise The Ancient Of Days

EXCELLENT insight PsychoticEpisode...i have come to it myself, but am glad you have brought it to attenton here in the articulate way yu have

YEs i completely agree with you. Thing is the 'holy books' AINTbeen written by 'God' or transmitted by 'God'. They have been invented and put down by patriarchal man. This is not to count out that psychedelic drugs may also have been used -as in 'prophecy', sure. BUT. like New Age 'channeling' now, any shit can be believed to be true. get me? IF the tripper or non-trpping self-proclaimed channeler has PRE-sumptions and metaphysical assumptions about reality, etc etc, then most likely these presumptions would affect any forthcoming visions, voices etc...ESPECIALLY when it came to intepretation. And the very fact the channelers are upposedly spaking about an INVISIBLE dimension and/or 'god'--how the hell are others gonna dis-prove it??!!


Let's take the Bible, when it is investigated --like by people such as Philogists like J.M.Allegro, we see itis a literary series of 'novels' which have many layers built on top of each other. The core level being for the cult's elite. included in these levels are word-play, pun, transliteration, world-blocks taken from 'dead' languages like Sumaria etc, and of course numerology

Hence cant we se AN pongoing elite being privy to all this 'secret knowledge',and as you say secretly fulfilling 'their' original intentions? of bleedin course we can

[QUOTE=Adstar
No. What they are under the control of is a doctrine called "kingdom theology" that is the belief that it is their duty to bring about the Kingdom before the return of the Messiah. Their theology is a belief that they will somehow deliver the world to Jesus on a plate as some kind of gift upon His return. The same kind of theology is held by islam, that being, that followers of allah must struggle through jihad until the world is totally under the control of islam and all people proclaim muhammed as the true prophet of allah.[/QUOTE]

And they figured that out all by themselves? Sorry but they are only trying to fulfill prophesy. That's what I mean, they shouldn't have to try to do what a book tells them or insinuates. That's not prophesy. Bibles are instruction manuals in some way, how to destroy the world in so many steps, or prepare as you say, for messiahs. Harmless verbiage until governments get involved that believe in it.

Duendy....Thanks for the kind words. You are quite right in assuming some stories in every bible were written by pipe smokin' drug induced fanatics totally out of touch with reality. Who knows? Hardly prophesy if that element exists because even if one writer was spaced then the whole book loses credibility.

Duendy....Thanks for the kind words. You are quite right in assuming some stories in every bible were written by pipe smokin' drug induced fanatics totally out of touch with reality. Who knows? Hardly prophesy if that element exists because even if one writer was spaced then the whole book loses credibility.
this is why it is urgent to know how they operate. cause make no mistae they D operate---us! they are far from stupid, and with vast mounts of money and power will hae and will add all kinds of mindcontrol propaganda to 'fulfil their prophcy' which bascially is tight control

the origians of mindcontrol as i am learning, is the psychological split of the invidual into 'good' and 'bad' elments. which is what patriarchal myth is all about...Divide and Conquer/Rule

the origians of mindcontrol as i am learning, is the psychological split of the invidual into 'good' and 'bad' elments. which is what patriarchal myth is all about...Divide and Conquer/Rule

This has been going on since the days of jebus!

This has been going on since the days of jebus!
whose 'jebus'?

this is why it is urgent to know how they operate. cause make no mistae they D operate---us!

Well, they do not operate me and several other members of the forum as it appears. Their actions affect us. Unfortunately,we are forced to wait until the actions of millions of deluded minds out of touch with reality decide the fate of the world based on words written by authors akin to the brothers Grimm(fairy tale experts).

Well, they do not operate me and several other members of the forum as it appears. Their actions affect us. Unfortunately,we are forced to wait until the actions of millions of deluded minds out of touch with reality decide the fate of the world based on words written by authors akin to the brothers Grimm(fairy tale experts).
i know...it is VERY scary Ineed isn't it?! when we consider the power they now have and are now using. /..check this out i am reading/studyin i found yesterdday....it shows thei philosophy. am kinda familiar wi it, but it's good to keep refreshed about this shit...http://groups.yahoo.com/Propaganda_Matrix/ and when at pge open link titled 'It's About A Lot More Than A Goddamned Piece of Paper'

sheeeeeit!!!!!!

here it is: http://www.groups.yahoo.com/group/Propaganda_Matrix/

We know what the Christians think, its the others we also have to worry about. What the hell is their agenda? Islamic and Jewish countries each with their own prophesies to fulfill. Weird that all three have Jerusalem as their holy city. Do you think there are some similarities between all 3? wink,wink

What would they do if some other country, China for instance, got so scared of what's transpiring over there that they just destroy or take over the friggin' place, or the entire middle east for that matter. At least the 3 religions can be satisfied that part of the prophesy came true. It would make it more believable in some way.

i am not a biblicy person, but there are things i remember from it that seem really apt...for example where Jesus warns sumthin like 'what profith you gain the whole world but lose your soul'.......years back i used to translate that as the usual sense of lose soul to hell. but now i mean it--wheter it was meat or not--it to mean, lose FEELING, humanity, morality, love
So...you keep hearing of the 'new world order' both from Conspiracy Theory AND from te very mouths o certian very high rankin oppressors

basially the world is teir stage, and they can put on what fuck off show they like which is what they are doing. 9/11 was one huge 'blockbuster wannit..??? reality fukin tv or wat????
and i believe it inside job...and if they do THA in broad NYC daylight what the livin fuk do they do in the dark?!

what really blew my head right out was after 7/7 i began really lookin closely at what went on, and comparing the 'facade medea coverage etc' with 9/11, i was to find pages that showed me an occult symbolism surrounding 9/11 and 7/7.....Then i find that the 'insiders' follow a Luciferian philosophy which is antithesis to Jesus....ie., dig, tey would JUSTIFY to temselves 'gaining the whole world'...!

so i am seeing tis horrendousting playing out. it's all over the net. it is Christians vs Illuminati. both belongng to same root stock--patriarchal belief system

Christ will return when people understand what it means. He has already returned to some places. "The kingdom of heaven is within you"

:) Yes the kingdom of heaven is within us but at the present time it is a kingdom in waiting for its physical manifestation upon the arrival of our Messiah Jesus.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

i am not a biblicy person, but there are things i remember from it that seem really apt...for example where Jesus warns sumthin like 'what profith you gain the whole world but lose your soul'.......years back i used to translate that as the usual sense of lose soul to hell. but now i mean it--wheter it was meat or not--it to mean, lose FEELING, humanity, morality, love
So...you keep hearing of the 'new world order' both from Conspiracy Theory AND from te very mouths o certian very high rankin oppressors

basially the world is teir stage, and they can put on what fuck off show they like which is what they are doing. 9/11 was one huge 'blockbuster wannit..??? reality fukin tv or wat????
and i believe it inside job...and if they do THA in broad NYC daylight what the livin fuk do they do in the dark?!

what really blew my head right out was after 7/7 i began really lookin closely at what went on, and comparing the 'facade medea coverage etc' with 9/11, i was to find pages that showed me an occult symbolism surrounding 9/11 and 7/7.....Then i find that the 'insiders' follow a Luciferian philosophy which is antithesis to Jesus....ie., dig, tey would JUSTIFY to temselves 'gaining the whole world'...!

so i am seeing tis horrendousting playing out. it's all over the net. it is Christians vs Illuminati. both belongng to same root stock--patriarchal belief system

And they have you shaking in fear, don't they duendy.

Not me duendy i know their plans, i know who they are working for, and i know they will fall. I have victory in The Messiah Jesus eternal victory. ;)

The prophesies will come true, each and every one of them.



All Praise The Ancient Of Days

Its ok for you to know their plans Adstar, not ok when leaders with a religious agenda know them. I'm glad you said plans...confirms my instruction booklet bible prophesy analogy. I don't think anybody's afraid of (a) God but they are damn well afraid of their fellow man.

The prophesies will come true, each and every one of them.

I wouldn't wate for this standing up! ;)

Godless

And they have you shaking in fear, don't they duendy.

Not me duendy i know their plans, i know who they are working for, and i know they will fall. I have victory in The Messiah Jesus eternal victory. ;)

The prophesies will come true, each and every one of them.



All Praise The Ancient Of Days
haha...right. so you got me down as 'mr shaky' and you as 'mr fearless' huh....ahhh,, so that's why you do a runner in debate is it? ie., i tend to assume people who dont finish debates to be a bit timid. but that's what you do

I am exploring this. i am not 'shakin in my boots'. i am also exploring YOUR myth. the one you believe will save you. i am saying your myth is phony and is part of the SAME patriarchal root stock of your enemy. now i regard it guts to take up my challeng about this....lets wait and see hey?

Its ok for you to know their plans Adstar, not ok when leaders with a religious agenda know them. I'm glad you said plans...confirms my instruction booklet bible prophesy analogy. I don't think anybody's afraid of (a) God but they are damn well afraid of their fellow man.

What are they afraid of? Are they afraid of death?


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

haha...right. so you got me down as 'mr shaky' and you as 'mr fearless' huh....ahhh,, so that's why you do a runner in debate is it? ie., i tend to assume people who dont finish debates to be a bit timid. but that's what you do

I am exploring this. i am not 'shakin in my boots'. i am also exploring YOUR myth. the one you believe will save you. i am saying your myth is phony and is part of the SAME patriarchal root stock of your enemy. now i regard it guts to take up my challeng about this....lets wait and see hey?

Correction i am not prepared to run around again and again in a discussion giving the same views over and over again. I give my views and clarification when needed. I am not prepared to join in a "yes it is", "no it isn't", "yes it is", "no it isn't", "yes it is", "no it isn't", "yes it is", "no it isn't", "yes it is", "no it isn't", screaming match. If i post more than 4 posts on an issue in a thread then i consider i am wasting my time. Most things can be said within two posts.



All Praise The Ancient Of Days

What are they afraid of? Are they afraid of death?

They are afraid of what you and your cohorts are capable of and a death before they get old. My misguided friend, I do not fear death nor do I welcome it. I accept it as a condition of my being therefore I have the right to expect to live a normal life without having it prematurely shortened because religious zealots are acting out a fantasy of epic proportions.

There should be a law that gives atheists a chance to leave the target area before opposing religious forces attempt to destroy one another. But then everybody would leave. Would you stay Adstar? Your predisposed mind knows that your Messiah's return is at hand....would you pass the chance to get out of harm's way to attain heavenly status?

The atheists of this world have done nothing to deserve the same fate that Holy leaders around the globe have in store for their respective enemies. All we want is to be allowed to live without other people's mindless doctrines determining our fate. That's our passion....to peacefully remove this scourge from the Earth by way of debate so we are not subject to the pending violence. Unfortunately the only way to debate it is to attack the very literature that perpetrates the hate and violence. Reasoning and logic our only tools. No hard feelings. Peace.

You are F*cked up!! your dads Creating/Hiding Something in his Lab. I smelled it!

regards,

loki

If you must know, my father died 5 years ago.

They are afraid of what you and your cohorts are capable of and a death before they get old.

Correction my "cohorts" do not engage in physical combat. My "cohorts" love their enemies and prefer to be killed then take part in killing. So my unbelieving friend you have nothing to worry about from me or my "cohorts". ;)



My misguided friend, I do not fear death nor do I welcome it. I accept it as a condition of my being therefore I have the right to expect to live a normal life without having it prematurely shortened because religious zealots are acting out a fantasy of epic proportions.

What "right" does anyone have in expecting to live a normal life time? there is no such right.



There should be a law that gives atheists a chance to leave the target area before opposing religious forces attempt to destroy one another. But then everybody would leave. Would you stay Adstar? Your predisposed mind knows that your Messiah's return is at hand....would you pass the chance to get out of harm's way to attain heavenly status?

Not sure what your trying to say hear. But let me say if it is a part of a religions doctrine to kill the infidels then they will chase you down and kill you. They don't want you to get out of the way they want you right there either to convert or die at their hands. As far as i am concerned prophesy tells me that during the times close to the return of my Messiah most of the followers of the Messiah will be killed many by being beheaded. So i accept what is coming if i come to be in harms way then so be it, It is a great honor to die for ones belief in Jesus. In the end running away is a delusion because there is no where to run on this planet that others cannot find.



The atheists of this world have done nothing to deserve the same fate that Holy leaders around the globe have in store for their respective enemies. All we want is to be allowed to live without other people's mindless doctrines determining our fate. That's our passion....to peacefully remove this scourge from the Earth by way of debate so we are not subject to the pending violence. Unfortunately the only way to debate it is to attack the very literature that perpetrates the hate and violence. Reasoning and logic our only tools. No hard feelings. Peace.

Your attacking the wrong thing. Can’t you see that true followers of Jesus are not about killing their enemies? Attack all the false religions all you want using the logic at your disposal but do not think that your logic is stronger than faith. What will come to pass will come to pass and it sure ain’t pretty. As i have said before their are religions who desire to kill all who refuse to bow to their doctrines they will never be swayed by the logic of a infidel.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

All I can say Adstar is no amount of reasoning, logic, argument, proof or disproof will ever sway you. If God ever showed up I would cower like a turtle but if He doesn't than for you there is no difference. I will never worry about about God showing up and likewise for you. I want the same as you, for people to get along, without the fireworks of the yarns of prophetic fantasy guiding the misguided towards useless and meaningless destruction.

If you must know, my father died 5 years ago.

my apology to you! :rolleyes:

sorry, i have a clue who you are and would like to apologise to them also.

''love can make me blind when i offer my soul''.

regards,

loki

Speaking of prophesy does anyone know of an online source for George Washington's Angel Vision that he wrote about in a letter from 1777? I read about this in Browne's book Phrophesy which did not source the item.