Why there is an epidemic of rape in Africa?

http://static1.bareka.com/photos/medium/3288776/real-rape.jpg

Is there?

related story (http://fjordman.blogspot.com/2005/02/muslim-rape-epidemic-in-sweden-and.html)

Also (http://www.oprah.com/tows/pastshows/200604/tows_past_20060420.jhtml)

Maybe a better question is Why is the entire continent so damn backwards in regard to crime in general?

Isn't there an assumption that they have the same moral values as Western societies? Until the 80s marital rape was not even recognised in the West. Its possible that they simply do not have the concept of sexual consent. :shrug:

Maybe a better question is Why is the entire continent so damn backwards in regard to crime in general?

This may have something to do with "civilized" and "uncivilized" or "educated" and "uneducated", or cultural differences.

It could also be that rape is a basal instinct that must be suppressed through culture and education. Take away that, humans in a gang turn in to animals....

So you don't think women don't mind rape so much in Africa, Sam?

Its possible that they simply do not have the concept of sexual consent.

Perhaps, it is time to teach them....

If we can take out regimes spending hundreds of billions of dollars and human lives, just because those regimes do not have the concept of oppression...why can not we do the same to these groups....:confused:

Perhaps, it is time to teach them....

If we can take out regimes spending hundreds of billions of dollars and human lives, just because those regimes do not have the concept of oppression...why can not we do the same to these groups....:confused:

What makes you assume the West is in any position to teach them?

So you don't think women don't mind rape so much in Africa, Sam?

I'm pretty sure the women in the west did not enjoy being raped by their husbands either, however was it a practice for them to go to court with their complaints? Did they even consider it rape? Did their husbands?

What makes you assume the West is in any position to teach them?

The answer is:

Africa is a begger society...without our donated money, their governments will fall...so we have some leverage. We work with them everyday...we know.

I'm pretty sure the women in the west did not enjoy being raped by their husbands either, however was it a practice for them to go to court with their complaints? Did they even consider it rape? Did their husbands?

That sounds like a screwed up logic! Are you typing this or your kid? :D

That sounds like a screwed up logic! Are you typing this or your kid? :D

What do you think?:)


Spousal rape is also called marital rape and often conflated with partner rape or intimate partner sexual assault (IPSA). Because there is a widely held view that a man or woman surrenders consent upon entering a marriage, the law has been slow to criminalize this form of rape/sexual assault. It is now a crime in most parts of the Western world, but exemptions still apply in some places; for example in some places marital rape cannot be prosecuted if the couple were living together at the time of the assault.



Late last month, in Maouloud Baby v. State of Maryland, the Court of Special Appeals of Maryland held that once a man has begun a consensual act of sexual intercourse with a woman, he may continue until he climaxes - even if she asks him to stop - without violating the law of rape.

In the State of Maryland, in other words, the law of rape presently does not authorize a woman to demand that her partner withdraw after penetration has already occurred.

:)

Poor kid...still stuck on America. It is Africa...Africa...you know the place that is bigger than USA, Europe and China combined!!!:D

Poor kid...still stuck on America. It is Africa...Africa...you know the place that is bigger than USA, Europe and China combined!!!:D

I was backing up the post you responded to:

I'm pretty sure the women in the west did not enjoy being raped by their husbands either, however was it a practice for them to go to court with their complaints? Did they even consider it rape? Did their husbands?

And why would you think that in Africa, the rules about intercourse, consent and sexuality would be the same?

The answer is:

Africa is a begger society...without our donated money, their governments will fall...so we have some leverage. We work with them everyday...we know.

How about if you stop using structural adjustment to bankrupt their economies, stop supporting dictators and supplying arms and start to invest in education, economic development and infrastructure. Would that be more useful, you think?

http://www.globalissues.org/TradeRelated/Poverty.asp

Maybe a better question is Why is the entire continent so damn backwards in regard to crime in general?

It might have something to do with the poverty, for a start. Poor nations can't afford effective police forces. And when officers of the law (police, judges etc.) aren't paid very well they tend to become corrupt.

Many African nations also have a history of corruption in government. Part of the problem there, I think, is that power in many parts of Africa is based on ancient tribal loyalties rather than on the concepts of liberal democracy. This almost inevitably leads to dictatorial governments ruled over by a "big man", much as tribes are ruled by a "big chief". Strength is perceived in the ability to wield force rather than in the checks and balances provided by the separation of powers embedded in the constitutional arrangements of western nations.

The answer is:

Africa is a begger society...without our donated money, their governments will fall...so we have some leverage. We work with them everyday...we know.

I did not mean financially.

So the question to you remains. Why do you assume the West is in a better position to help them understand?

It might have something to do with the poverty, for a start. Poor nations can't afford effective police forces. And when officers of the law (police, judges etc.) aren't paid very well they tend to become corrupt.

I don't buy the whole Poverty Argument. I think it's confusing correlation for causation. People see that places where people are poor, there is also a lot of crime and rape and all kinds of bad stuff going on. So they connect the two. Poverty causes crime, low living standards and antisocial behavior. And hey, maybe that's true to some extent... maybe. But I think probably more the case is that there's another hidden factor or perhaps many other unknown factors which are causing it. I don't think poverty can quite explain away everything.

In the beginning of the 20th century, were Americans rich? No. Some were, I'm sure. However, about half of them existed below the poverty line. So if you're right about poverty being a major causative force for crime and antisocial behavior, we should see that there was a hell of a lot more crime back then than there is now. After all, we're much richer now than back in 1910. But it's simply not the case. In fact, there is much more crime now than there was back then. Can't be that powerful of a predictor, can it.

Why are African countries unanimously poor in the first place?

Why are African countries unanimously poor in the first place?

squandered opportunities and predatory opportunism.

http://www.globalissues.org/Geopolitics/Africa.asp

How about if you stop using structural adjustment to bankrupt their economies, stop supporting dictators and supplying arms and start to invest in education, economic development and infrastructure. Would that be more useful, you think?

Are you pulling my leg? Tricking me to think that you are a blindman describing an elephant by touching the leg only? :D

So the question to you remains. Why do you assume the West is in a better position to help them understand?

Africans need serious education. We donate money for everything except education. It is not just up to sixth grade, the education needs to be how western countries do business and the methods of communication and understanding. We are in a better position simply because we know and our business processes work.

Why are African countries unanimously poor in the first place?

The issues are deep but solvable. In early eighties, I met a senior African diplomat from Tanzania in Beijing, China. We were chit-chatting and he let me know that the white people from Europe are taking advantage of the poor Africans by taking raw minerals and paying very little for it when the price of finished product like metals are so high. I asked, why can not you people extract the material yourself and make it to be finished products or sell the raw material? Then he said that they do not have the know-how or educated people. I said, why don't you send your bright students to be educated in USA and when they return, develop your own industry?

I explained that, that is what the Chinese were doing buying equipment, design and training from us and doing their own thing. They license only when they have to.

Then he had a big sigh and said, Chinese are smart, that will never work in Africa!

Fast forward to last few months. We have been talking to an Ambassador from Liberia and his group. He wants to explore for oil, iron, gold, and produce high value agricultural products. He said he has $40 million available to start projects. When we asked about the status of any iron mining projects going on, he said there is none. We did a Google search and found out that the government did give license to Mittal for a very large ore processing operation. But when Mittal wanted to have their own transportation network to export the product, all hell broke lose. The opposition and American Liberians got mad and said that can not happen. Mittal must use private Liberian transportation and shipping process to take the ore out meaning, pay us or go home. Now the project is in a limbo.

In the meantime we were told by others that the Ambassador is running a scam where they try to bring unsuspecting large companies to invest money 100% without any risk to any local entities, part of which will go to the President and others to be sucked away in a swiss bank.

There is a lot of scam going on by government entities in Africa, because no one there believes that they can learn and do the job themselves. Neither their government nor their rich people who got rich through the mineral extraction process will spend a dime to actually put a business together or educate their people who can.

That is the short version. We are learning very interesting stuff...soon I will post that in a new thread.

Well, I have already told you the biggest problem wrong with Africa, it is the same problem with any other undeveloped society, greed and neglect, very simply put- nobody cares. The same smart people that developed first world countries are not interested in doing it elsewhere, and if they are doing it at all they are doing it for a high price, setting economies in debt. Its the same reason why Kazakstan, Bangladesh, and places like South West Asia are stagnant. You never hear anything in the news about Africa, you didn't hear when Ghana developed an auto mobile from the ground up, or when Nigeria planned to lunch their own com SAT, you never hear any of that. And the thing is more people in Africa speak French and English than the whole of China, but when developed countries like China sneezes you hear it all in the paper...the latest gizmo doodah!. Then we wonder why children are starving on TV in Cambodia and Niger, which by the way is shown on TV more times than actual events going on in these places. I think knowledge should be tought to anyone that wants it, but there is a lot of ecopolitics involves, and some African governments themselves, especially the lunatic ones(a.k.a Mubutu), don't want a too educated population, they want to be on top of the alpha chain and wallop in business deals with foreign merchants.

Africans need serious education. We donate money for everything except education. It is not just up to sixth grade, the education needs to be how western countries do business and the methods of communication and understanding. We are in a better position simply because we know and our business processes work.

I am even sure you donate for education, the problem with Africa is that vodoo still exists, official money disappears without a trace. Certain people, the real indegenous lunatics, don't truely believe in the western man's ideal, they think western education is western man's totem. Yes, the West knows how business works, and much of the problem with commerce with Africa is because the West has never really done significant commerce with Africa without coming out on top or with a little leverage, it started ever since the first Western man saw the first African. One of the only things that can save Africa is the AU (African Union), having said this, keep in mind there are places in Africa that looks just like the United States, I've been there so I should know. I'm African, currently living in NYC.

Here is a simple solution but somehow it does not work. If you want to build a house in USA, all you have to do is get the money from your own savings or a loan against the house. Then get a architect and construction company to build it for you. The job is done.

If you want to build a power plant, get a loan against the plant and the power contract. Then hire an EPC company who can also train your people. The African governments do have or can get the money, but they are just afraid.

The problem with Kazakhstan is they want American government to develop the projects there. They are not interested to work with engineering companies to design and construct projects there. It is that old soviet style mentality. They wanted a SBA style organization to support the small business. We made a proposal to one of Almaty municipal entities as per their request. But they did nothing instead wanted the US government involved.

And then there are leaches who set up shop there and drain the money that US government sends and provide bad advice such that the donations keep flowing...like a parasite that does not kill the host but keeps it barely alive to continue to feed on. But because the parasites are within the law, even if immoral, the international community can not do much about it....

One of the only things that can save Africa is the AU (African Union), having said this, keep in mind there are places in Africa that looks just like the United States, I've been there so I should know. I'm African, currently living in NYC.

Here is another example of issues that need solutions. As you know, the Africans sell a lot of Coffee. They (the coffee co-ops) buy about a $1.00 per kg from the little farmers (there are thousands) and sell the coffee at about $1.50 to $2.00 per kg to middlemen who sell the product at about $12/kg. (recent quote I got was $1700 to $1900 per ton).

Now, at that price, the co-ops do not make enough profit to expand their business and everybody stays poor. In order to sell at $12/kg and make the high profit, they need to set up a distribution network in say USA which may require a million dollars of investment for a $100 million per year business. This is where things breakdown. They try hard to find a middleman who will give them $12/kg. That will never happen. And neither the government nor the banks are supportive of investing in a distribution and sales network.

So, they bitch about it, blame Starbucks, but things do not move anywhere. We have a bank in Cameroon that finally saw the light and agreed to lend money for a start up to this co-op. Where it will go, I do not know.

Why there is an epidemic of rape in Africa?

Sexual intercourse is a violent act, an aggressive invasion of a woman's inner space.

If any man thinks he has ever done anything other than rape a woman when having sexual intercourse he is simply brainwashed by our overly feminized and sanitized society.

A woman is frightened of penetration and so wants all kinds of artificial protection measures such as romance and overtures of love before she will submit to it.

No amount of flowers or perfume can hide this violent act absolutely essential to our survival.

So, lets quit with the pretense of incredulity shall we?

We're all rapists.

Sexual intercourse is a violent act, an aggressive invasion of a woman's inner space.

If any man thinks he has ever done anything other than rape a woman when having sexual intercourse he is simply brainwashed by our overly feminized and sanitized society.

A woman is frightened of penetration and so wants all kinds of artificial protection measures such as romance and overtures of love before she will submit to it.

No amount of flowers or perfume can hide this violent act absolutely essential to our survival.

So, lets quit with the pretense of incredulity shall we?

We're all rapists.

That was tongue in cheek, right?

Sexual intercourse is a violent act, an aggressive invasion of a woman's inner space.

If any man thinks he has ever done anything other than rape a woman when having sexual intercourse he is simply brainwashed by our overly feminized and sanitized society.

A woman is frightened of penetration and so wants all kinds of artificial protection measures such as romance and overtures of love before she will submit to it.

No amount of flowers or perfume can hide this violent act absolutely essential to our survival.

So, lets quit with the pretense of incredulity shall we?

We're all rapists.
/Sarcasm

Right?

The first time I penetrated my first girlfriend with my finger and wiggled it a bit, she came almost right away, then begged me to f*** her. More orgasms to follow.

Thats Deep Thought

Thats Deep Thought
Not really. I don't reacll thinking too much. :p

so deep thought actually meant that?

Our civil society is based on a framework, an infrastructure composed of many factors that lead people to generally obey social norms.

When conditions are such that it seems no one cares about the rules, then crime is rampant. For example, look at New York City with their dramatic decreases in crime during the mid-90's. This was not the result of genetics, or even necessarily capturing all the criminals, but rather creating an environment in the city where it was obvious people cared about what happened. We cleaned up graffiti, made people pay the fare, stopped the "squeegee men" and panhandling, enforced rules against public urination, etc. The population didn't suddenly change their nature, they were just responding to their environment. Serious crimes dropped as a result.

But many things had to be in place before that could happen. Many areas of New York used to be as dangerous as anywhere in the world, but were transformed by clever investments in seemingly trivial aspects of society, none of which could have worked without also an improving economy, and a decline in the crack epidemic.

That was tongue in cheek, right?

Visceral,

Answer me one question, which may appear slightly vulgar to you, yes or no:

Does a man have to force his penis into a woman's vagina?

So Deepthought you are a product of rape, is it not?

Visceral,

Answer me one question, which may appear slightly vulgar to you, yes or no:

Does a man have to force his penis into a woman's vagina?

No.

Usually, the act is consensual, not forced.

And I get sick of all this 'women are victims' business. Incredibly, most women like sex, it's not something they are terrified of and must be forced on them. Hell, I like sex. I've had sex. I wasn't raped, I wanted it. (sorry people, that was too much information, but this victimhood stuff does my head in.)

Isn't the real problem over population. How much alcohol and drugs are there? Probably not much drugs but alcahol is easy to come by and there has to be at least beer. I bet that is to account for the overpopualltion and the other thing.

Usually, the act is consensual, not forced.

That wasn't my question.

And I get sick of all this 'women are victims' business.

Who the fuck mentioned victims?

DeepThought,

i think your just gonna dig yourself in deeper.

Africans need serious education. We donate money for everything except education. It is not just up to sixth grade, the education needs to be how western countries do business and the methods of communication and understanding. We are in a better position simply because we know and our business processes work.

Yes. But are we in the moral position to be able to provide said education?

Do you think the West's views of rape allow us to take the high road? For one thing, the majority of the Western population cannot even distinguish or agree on what rape actually is. Yes the majority will agree that if she says no, then it is rape, but cannot seem to distinguish that if both are drunk or if she is dressed a certain way, or if she is drunk, etc.. that they could be mitigating factors.

I am not pointing out the financial aid to their education. I am asking you about whether we are in a moral or justified position to educate them about rape, when the majority of our own population cannot even agree on whether some rapes are actually rapes.

When you have judges in Western countries attributing gang rapes of little girls as being 'experimentation', are we really in a position to teach them anything at all?

Yes. But are we in the moral position to be able to provide said education?

YES

Do you think the West's views of rape allow us to take the high road? For one thing, the majority of the Western population cannot even distinguish or agree on what rape actually is. Yes the majority will agree that if she says no, then it is rape, but cannot seem to distinguish that if both are drunk or if she is dressed a certain way, or if she is drunk, etc.. that they could be mitigating factors.

YES, we are not talking about date rape which sometimes is ambiguous. This is pure physical assult and kidnapping by one or more persons. It is no more different that a group coming stealing your car or property with a gun point. your female friend may not be safe walking down the street. Similar thing is happening in Sweden by yound muslim men. It is a criminal activity which is also related to other criminal activities.

I am not pointing out the financial aid to their education. I am asking you about whether we are in a moral or justified position to educate them about rape, when the majority of our own population cannot even agree on whether some rapes are actually rapes.

Isolating education about rape may not work. It should be an all encompassing education about the nature and properties of a civil society - a kind of international norm. What that is, let the demicracy spring to action. This also includes quality of life and sustainable economy...

When you have judges in Western countries attributing gang rapes of little girls as being 'experimentation', are we really in a position to teach them anything at all?

Yes we are. Just because there are some criminal activities in western countries, that does not make the whole society a barbaric one. There is a difference between abberations and normalacy in any given scenario. We have proven that our system of social structure provides lifes needs - food, shelter, wellbeing and security to most people (that $13 Trillion GDP!). People still pay money to cayotes to be smuggled in to America and some European countries. Chinese strive to be Americans.

By the way, a large number of Africans are racists. They want Whites to come back to Africa but do not want the Brown people and Chinese there. Go figure!

Originally Posted by Bells
Yes. But are we in the moral position to be able to provide said education?


Yes, we are. Personally, I wouldn't waste my time expending any effort on savages (look what it has got us in the past), but it would be perfectly acceptable for us to teach them how to behave like civilised human beings... well, more civilised than they currently are.


Do you think the West's views of rape allow us to take the high road?


So you believe that since Western countries have trouble defining rape in some exceptional scenarios (eg. was she drunk enough for it to be considering rape?), it isn't in a position to teach the Africans what we consider as clearly as rape is wrong? What sort of fucked up logic is that?!

Even if the West's view on rape isn't totally infalliable, it's still a step (or two, or three) an improvement on that of those African countries in question.


When you have judges in Western countries attributing gang rapes of little girls as being 'experimentation', are we really in a position to teach them anything at all?


Was that judge representative of the norm? Was their a public outcry in Australia when the judgement became public? Are the judge and prosecution being investigated? And is gang rape of children a cultural thing, or behaviour which deviates from the social norm?

The problem can only be fixed holistically. It is only one symptom of a disfunctional society. It's not like they don't know it's wrong.

[COLOR="Blue"]YES, we are not talking about date rape which sometimes is ambiguous. This is pure physical assult and kidnapping by one or more persons. It is no more different that a group coming stealing your car or property with a gun point. your female friend may not be safe walking down the street. Similar thing is happening in Sweden by yound muslim men. It is a criminal activity which is also related to other criminal activities.


I wasn't talking about date rape.

And yes, there are many in our Western society who think that because a woman is dressed a certain way, she is inviting her rapist. There are also many in the West who think it is acceptable to rape one's wife. I could go on, but I think you get my drift.

Now, to clarify, are you talking about rapes in Africa or rapes by Africans?

Isolating education about rape may not work. It should be an all encompassing education about the nature and properties of a civil society - a kind of international norm. What that is, let the demicracy spring to action. This also includes quality of life and sustainable economy...

And that's all well and good. It would be ideal to be able to actually do that. But are you suggesting white Western men and women enter refugee camps in Liberia for example (where rape is on the rise after many years of war) and educate them on how to become civilised and about the quality of life they should have? How receptive do you think they are going to be?

In many instaces in Africa, the numbers of rapes are connected to wars (since rape in wartime is highly common). Then you also have issues of lax laws by the State (eg South Africa) and a general tendency to assume that rape should be settled privately and not in the judicial system (the notion of one should not air one's dirty laundry in public.. especially in instances of marital rape or infidelity). So please, how exactly are you going to teach poverty stricken people, living in ghettos and on the verge of starvation how they should be civilised like 'us'?

I am not saying it should not be done. Your ideas are, well, ideal. And in an ideal world, it could be done. But reality is far from ideal. Surviving wars, starvation and oppressive regimes will take priority over some white folks from the West trying to educate them about how to be civilised.

Just because there are some criminal activities in western countries, that does not make the whole society a barbaric one.
Are you sure about that? I think we are just as capable of being barbaric as the next third world country, and we sometimes are.

There is a difference between abberations and normalacy in any given scenario.
Yes there is. But rape in some areas of the West is systemic.

We have proven that our system of social structure provides lifes needs - food, shelter, wellbeing and security to most people (that $13 Trillion GDP!).
You're kidding me, aren't you?

Even if the West's view on rape isn't totally infalliable, it's still a step (or two, or three) an improvement on that of those African countries in question.

As I said to kmguru, in an ideal world it would not be a problem. But how exactly are you going to educate them? I personally think it is a wonderful idea and ideal. But one that is virtually impossible. We cannot hold the higher moral ground when we support despotic regimes in Africa who have no rape laws and whose soldiers and police officers regularly participate in raping women and children. Do you see where I am going with this? We are not in a position to teach them when we ourselves are so blind as to not be able to even determine when a rape is a rape.

Spidergoat answered that:

The problem can only be fixed holistically. It is only one symptom of a disfunctional society. It's not like they don't know it's wrong.

To that I add, a systemic issue requires holistic approach - whether in USA with the highest percent of inmates or in Timbuktoo.

Answer me one question, which may appear slightly vulgar to you, yes or no:

Does a man have to force his penis into a woman's vagina?
Ok. So we've now established that you've never had intercourse. Let me explain, since I've had lots.

In most consensual "encounters", by the time intercourse is initiated (notice how proper I'm being here?) if the man has done his job properly, the woman is so lubricated that no "force" is rerquired. This is not always the case of course. Many times the woman herself is so eager that she isn't as lubricated as she might be and will tell you to "take it easy" for the first few umm... thrusts, but then all is almost always well.

Ok?

Africans are stuck in a constant state of thinking about the "now". Some of the first people discovered without a time sense like the West's were in Africa. There's no way we can help a continent of people who have no concept of the future.

I can't imagine people in a constant state of poverty or civil conflict having much of a concept of a future. At least not a good one.

I can't imagine people in a constant state of poverty or civil conflict having much of a concept of a future. At least not a good one.

Why are the biggest gamblers the people who can afford it least?

Why are the biggest gamblers the people who can afford it least?
They're idiots?

They're idiots?

Yeah, most poor people are dumb. Probably cause they're black, and we know that black people are genetically inferior to just about every other race out there.

How do you measure genetic inferiority? How do you establish race?

How do you measure genetic inferiority? How do you establish race?

Bell curves? An instrument to measure absorptivity of skin?

*chuckle*

Why are the biggest gamblers the people who can afford it least?They're also the people who understand probability theory and can calculate probabilities accurately. Go figure.

They're also the people who understand probability theory and can calculate probabilities accurately. Go figure.

Was that... was that sarcasm?

Fraggle!

Ok. So we've now established that you've never had intercourse. Let me explain, since I've had lots.

No, your right, I've never 'done it' before. :shy:

Thanks for letting me know what's involved.

The man has to 'do a job'... I kinda guessed that... even with all my naivety and innocence.

The job: deposit semen within the vagina.

You mean...there's no doorbell?

This has turned into what is potentially the most hilarious thread on sciforums. That's excluding the ones posted by Happeh.

Bell curves? An instrument to measure absorptivity of skin?

Ahh so you form a bell curve for people with genes for height and immediately conclude that women are inferior to men except when the men are Chinese and the women African. (wait is tall better? Don't shorter people live longer? Or is it a basketball team we're selecting for?)

Thanks

And let me see. you establish the difference between Chinese and Indians by comparing their melanin levels. And the Mizoram Indians and the Arunachal Chinese will just have to figure out where they stand at noon.

Much obliged. :)

You mean...there's no doorbell?

There is. Many men can never seem to find it.

Africans are stuck in a constant state of thinking about the "now". Some of the first people discovered without a time sense like the West's were in Africa. There's no way we can help a continent of people who have no concept of the future.
What do you think concerns them more? Avoiding death by starvation and/or war or "thinking" about saving up to buy a house, car and what kind of topping to have on the pizza in the near and distant future?

Huh? Most poor people tend to have a shriveled future sense, not just Africans. Jesus, go play with your doorbell or something.

Huh? Most poor people tend to have a shriveled future sense, not just Africans.
Do you think poor people in the West are the same as poor people verging on starvation while living in a war torn country?

Why there is an epidemic of rape in Africa?



One of the problems here in South Africa is child rape. This stems from a belief by some of the rural people that you can cure HIV/AIDS by sleeping with a virgin. Thats why a lot of young girls (sometimes only a couple of months old) get raped here.

A new survey carried out in the South African city of Johannesburg has uncovered an alarming picture of sexual violence.

One in three of the 4,000 women questioned by CIET Africa, non-governmental organisation, said they had been raped in the past year.

CIET researchers trying to find ways of arresting the alarming growth in sexual violence in South Africa said they were shocked by the finding.

Gang rape 'fun'

In a related survey conducted among 1,500 schoolchildren in the Soweto township, a quarter of all the boys interviewed said that 'jackrolling' - a South African term for recreational gang rape - was fun.

More than half the interviewees insisted that when a girl says no to sex she really means yes.

Many of those interviewed also expressed little knowledge about the need to use condoms and to practise safe sex.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/258446.stm

Two men are due to appear at a court in Johannesburg on Tuesday, accused of raping a five-month-old girl who was discovered covered in blood and in tears.

It is the latest in a series of rapes of baby girls - some of them involving children less than one year-old, which has left South Africans reeling with horror.

Every day the newspapers bring awful revelations: a nine-month-old girl gang-raped by six men; an eight-month-old raped and left by the roadside.

It is also trying to dispel a widespread rumour - that having sex with a virgin cures Aids.

Traditional healers, or witchdoctors, are blamed for spreading this idea, and encouraging child rape.

A sociologist, Lisa Vetton, draws a parallel with Europe, when child prostitution was rampant

"At that time venereal disease like Aids today was incurable. If you had gonorrhea or syphilis you were going to die. And exactly the same myth emerged, that sex with a virgin is going to cure you - so it seems like a very old response whenever sex and death are combined. Suddenly women - girls - get attributed with magical healing powers"

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/1703595.stm

Another day in Africa.

Do you think poor people in the West are the same as poor people verging on starvation while living in a war torn country?

No. The blacker ones are more inferior.

No. The blacker ones are more inferior.

Why? How? You have scientific proof of this of course?

And at what level of skin colour does one begin to become more inferior? Taupe? So when you lay like a dried squid in the sun for a tan, you get more inferior as you colour? Or are you just 'spesh'?

One of the problems here in South Africa is child rape. This stems from a belief by some of the rural people that you can cure HIV/AIDS by sleeping with a virgin. Thats why a lot of young girls (sometimes only a couple of months old) get raped here.

It doesn't help that your Government took so bloody long to recognise that AIDS/HIV was an issue.

Tasmanian aboriginal. The blackest of black. They didn't even have fire when first discovered by whites in the 19th century. Now that's what I call degenerate. No, that's incorrect. Primitive, like all the other fauna from that continent.


Seriously though, what's so hard to understand that if poor people in the West have trouble doing well in school, holding jobs, and pick up habits they can't afford (smoking, drinking, gambling, etc.) due to a difficulty in comparing current payoff to future cost, then poorer Africans would have even more difficulty with such things?

But really Bells, your inability to grasp what I'm saying astounds me. No, wait, it doesn't. You just assume that I'm saying something racist, when in fact, I'm pointing out how genetics could actually have nothing to do with Africans sucking. Not that I'd expect critical thinking from you. Your head's awash in motherhood hormones.

Tasmanian aboriginal. The blackest of black. They didn't even have fire when first discovered by whites in the 19th century. Now that's what I call degenerate. No, that's incorrect. Primitive, like all the other fauna from that continent.

And most of the white fauna is descendant from the UK.

Why should they have "fired" when confronted with people they had never encountered before? Do you kill every stranger you see in the street? They had no means of defending themselves against those who decided to eradicate them. Victims of genocide rarely do.

Seriously though, what's so hard to understand that if poor people in the West have trouble doing well in school, holding jobs, and pick up habits they can't afford (smoking, drinking, gambling, etc.) due to a difficulty in comparing current payoff to future cost, then poorer Africans would have even more difficulty with such things?
And what is so difficult for you to understand that comparing someone poor in the West to an African living in a war torn country battling starvation is, well, kinda stupid? It is like comparing an apple to an orange. Poor people in the West dream about wealth and prosperity. Poor people in Africa dream about surviving and hoping like hell they might, just might be able to scrounge up some food so their kids don't just die the next day.

But really Bells, your inability to grasp what I'm saying astounds me. No, wait, it doesn't. You just assume that I'm saying something racist, when in fact, I'm pointing out how genetics could actually have nothing to do with Africans sucking. Not that I'd expect critical thinking from you. Your head's awash in motherhood hormones.
And your head's too far up your backside to see the sunshine.

Tasmanian aboriginal. The blackest of black. They didn't even have fire when first discovered by whites in the 19th century. Now that's what I call degenerate. No, that's incorrect. Primitive, like all the other fauna from that continent.


Seriously though, what's so hard to understand that if poor people in the West have trouble doing well in school, holding jobs, and pick up habits they can't afford (smoking, drinking, gambling, etc.) due to a difficulty in comparing current payoff to future cost, then poorer Africans would have even more difficulty with such things?


People like you Roman, are the poster boy for why educated does not equal rational.

So, are you poor or black?

Why should they have "fired" when confronted with people they had never encountered before?

No, I mean rapid oxidation releasing large amounts of heat, often used for cooking and keeping warm. You know, fire.


And what is so difficult for you to understand that comparing someone poor in the West to an African living in a war torn country battling starvation is, well, kinda stupid? It is like comparing an apple to an orange. Poor people in the West dream about wealth and prosperity. Poor people in Africa dream about surviving and hoping like hell they might, just might be able to scrounge up some food so their kids don't just die the next day.

It's just more of an extreme, Bells. On the same scale. You know, they're both fruit. Hell, I'd argue they're both a variety of apple. Or citrus.

Poor people in the West (and I mean real poor people, not only having one car poor, or whatever you lawyers think is poor) live a hand-to-mouth existence. Believe me. I know many, many poor people. They live form one paycheck to another. Many of them are quite bright, talented individuals. Yet they consistently make bad decisions when it comes to what's going to pay off in the future.

How is this any different from a more poor person, with more problems, living an even more hand-to-mouth existence, in, say Africa or Indonesia?

I've been to southeast asia, too. They have a lot of poor people there. Can't say I really got to know a lot of them, though, since my Malay is pretty bad, so my comparative anecdotal analysis isn't really, well, comparative.

People like you Roman, are the poster boy for why educated does not equal rational.

So, are you poor or black?

Both.
But which bit wasn't rational? Do you want me to go through all the syllogisms of my reason? The logic, if you will? You can disagree with my premises; in fact, the only reason I brought it up was because I know you guys will. But the logic is ironclad.

No, I mean rapid oxidation releasing large amounts of heat, often used for cooking and keeping warm. You know, fire.



My bad. They didn't make fire, but did use smouldering fire sticks and adapted to their environment quite well.

Poor people in the West (and I mean real poor people, not only having one car poor, or whatever you lawyers think is poor) live a hand-to-mouth existence. Believe me. I know many, many poor people. They live form one paycheck to another. Many of them are quite bright, talented individuals. Yet they consistently make bad decisions when it comes to what's going to pay off in the future.

How is this any different from a more poor person, with more problems, living an even more hand-to-mouth existence, in, say Africa or Indonesia?

But they get a paycheck and assistance in regards to health and welfare. In Africa, most have to depend on the land to survive and in times of drought and/or war, they do not have a monthly paycheck or a Government to offer them aid. In some instances, it is the Government who is trying to kill them.

Poor people in the US do have it tough, but they can still somehow manage to scrounge up at least one meal a day. Poor people in Africa do not have that luxury if their crops fail or is destroyed by war. Get it now? They do not have choices to make since the majority are merely trying to survive war and/or famine, while the poor in the US might.

Both.
But which bit wasn't rational? Do you want me to go through all the syllogisms of my reason? The logic, if you will? You can disagree with my premises; in fact, the only reason I brought it up was because I know you guys will. But the logic is ironclad.

Lets see. According to you a really really poor person in a Western culture, where welfare checks and soup kitchens are available, education is possible and society is relatively secure, solvent and free from war is equal to a very very poor person from say Malawi, with a GDP per capita of $600.

Correct?

There is no excuse where the topic of this thread is concerned. NONE.

But they get a paycheck and assistance in regards to health and welfare. In Africa, most have to depend on the land to survive and in times of drought and/or war, they do not have a monthly paycheck or a Government to offer them aid. In some instances, it is the Government who is trying to kill them.

Poor people in the US do have it tough, but they can still somehow manage to scrounge up at least one meal a day. Poor people in Africa do not have that luxury if their crops fail or is destroyed by war. Get it now? They do not have choices to make since the majority are merely trying to survive war and/or famine, while the poor in the US might.

Oh yeah, I definitely understand that poor in the US is hardly 'poor' compared to what real poor is. I've seen that shit first hand.

But you would understand how such an environment wouldn't be conducive for the sort of planning that comes to fruition in 5 or 10 or 30 years? Like any other ephemeral organism, the greater the chance of mortality, the greater the focus on now. Why waste resources that will pay off in decades when tomorrow your village will be burned and your children orphaned?

It's precisely that sort of environment that gives way to an entire culture, a way of thinking, that isn't conducive to the long time investment strategies, such as financial markets, or education. Why lend capital when using it now is so much more valuable?

Why have so many of our attempts in other countries, both by the gov't and private sectors, to better the life there, not worked? Because the skill sets we tell them to value don't have value. An education doesn't matter if you're an African pastoralist. So what if your child has the opportunity learn to read down at the UNESCO shelter or whatever; you need all 8 of those little fuckers working on the farm. Half of them are going to die, anyway.

Lets see. According to you a really really poor person in a Western culture, where welfare checks and soup kitchens are available, education is possible and society is relatively secure, solvent and free from war is equal to a very very poor person from say Malawi, with a GDP per capita of $600.

Correct?

Well, presumably they're still people. Unless you're saying that poor, poor, poor Malawians (Malawese?) are subhuman and operate by a different set of rules, since they're more like a different species or something.

Which I don't think you're saying.


Education IS possible, true, yet many poor people do very poorly in school. They don't value education, because for them, the opportunity cost of learning is too high. They have a different sense of time. Rather than sacrificing now for later pay off, they instead go for immediate pay off. The lower you through social strata, the more pronounced this becomes. How frequently do millionaires buy lottery tickets? What about Bubba&Sue Ann from the trailer park? Look at the enormous percent of income a middle class family invests in their child's education, compared to that of a lower class family. As a % of income, the middle class sacrifices more for education than the lower class. If you assume that wealth correlate with longevity, and that in turn correlates with fitness, then you'll see that as you get poorer, you are less likely to survive, and so will begin consuming resources now, borrowing from the future.

Sure, poor Brazilians may not have schools or other such fancy-pants institutions to not invest in, but they are remarkably talented at wiping out their environment. All over, you'll find poor people tearing apart their environment at enormous cost to the future- some of that shit is never coming back, for an immediate pay off.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/258446.stm



http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/1703595.stm

Another day in Africa.
That is absolutely horrifying. It's hard to imagine the state of mind a person must be in to commit such an act. They must be desensitized from a very early age. Animals do not even behave like this. Human beings are disgusting.:mad:

That is absolutely horrifying. It's hard to imagine the state of mind a person must be in to commit such an act. They must be desensitized from a very early age. Animals do not even behave like this. Human beings are disgusting.:mad:

Animals with lowered fitness tend to engage in rape to make up for the possibility of death in the near future.

I see no reason why it's not also the case for people- environmental stress makes us act like animals. Which we are.

Yes, but we are also human beings capable of being rational and compassionate. We don't need to sink to such disgusting levels.

That is absolutely horrifying. It's hard to imagine the state of mind a person must be in to commit such an act. They must be desensitized from a very early age. Animals do not even behave like this. Human beings are disgusting.:mad:

It's ugly to our conditioned sensibilities, yes. But that's nature.

As for the desensitized part, I would argue the opposite. People must be conditioned at a very early age not to rape. Otherwise, they will. As ugly as you think it is, it is much more common and natural than you probably think.

And yes, animals do rape. That is, they copulate against the will of the other. It is very common in the animal kingdom. Animals need to deposit their seed to bring forth the next generation in order for their genes to continue existing. Naturally, those genes which exist today are probably pretty good at existing and replicating by whatever means possible. By Whatever Means Possible.

Well, presumably they're still people. Unless you're saying that poor, poor, poor Malawians (Malawese?) are subhuman and operate by a different set of rules, since they're more like a different species or something.

Which I don't think you're saying.


Education IS possible, true, yet many poor people do very poorly in school. They don't value education, because for them, the opportunity cost of learning is too high. They have a different sense of time. Rather than sacrificing now for later pay off, they instead go for immediate pay off. The lower you through social strata, the more pronounced this becomes. How frequently do millionaires buy lottery tickets? What about Bubba&Sue Ann from the trailer park? Look at the enormous percent of income a middle class family invests in their child's education, compared to that of a lower class family. As a % of income, the middle class sacrifices more for education than the lower class. If you assume that wealth correlate with longevity, and that in turn correlates with fitness, then you'll see that as you get poorer, you are less likely to survive, and so will begin consuming resources now, borrowing from the future.

Sure, poor Brazilians may not have schools or other such fancy-pants institutions to not invest in, but they are remarkably talented at wiping out their environment. All over, you'll find poor people tearing apart their environment at enormous cost to the future- some of that shit is never coming back, for an immediate pay off.

IOW, you are saying that in your opinion, if you were to put a poor person from Malawi next to a poor person from Long Island, both would be astonishingly similar in their goals and outlook.

So tell me, in countries where the poor are getting richer due to increased investment in infrastructure and education, what has happened to the poor? Have they evolved, d'you think? Reached a higher plane of enlightenment?

e.g. my mother was so poor as a child that she never finished her education, wore only one dress that she washed every night and ate only one meal a day for several years. However when she died, she was a rich woman. Hers is not an unusual story in India. So what happened here?

It's ugly to our conditioned sensibilities, yes. But that's nature.

As for the desensitized part, I would argue the opposite. People must be conditioned at a very early age not to rape. Otherwise, they will. As ugly as you think it is, it is much more common and natural than you probably think.

And yes, animals do rape. That is, they copulate against the will of the other. It is very common in the animal kingdom. Animals need to deposit their seed to bring forth the next generation in order for their genes to continue existing. Naturally, those genes which exist today are probably pretty good at existing and replicating by whatever means possible. By Whatever Means Possible.
There is truth in what you are saying. In these countries where rape is so prevalent the living conditions and quality of life is piss poor as well. This is why we teach morals and and try to instill character virtues in children. It leads to a better quality of life for everyone. It's what we like to call being more civilized.
A good example of this is the campaigns against bullying in schools. Most schools in Canada have a zero tolerance for bullying. The school administration, teachers, parents and kids work together to be conscious of exactly what bullying is, the different types and how to stop and prevent it. It is working very well. I don't know that we will ever be able to completely irradicate bullying but there is a huge difference in school climates today than even 10 years ago.

And at what level of skin colour does one begin to become more inferior? Taupe? So when you lay like a dried squid in the sun for a tan, you get more inferior as you colour?

That is a good one...:thumbsup:

And yes, animals do rape. That is, they copulate against the will of the other. It is very common in the animal kingdom. Animals need to deposit their seed to bring forth the next generation in order for their genes to continue existing. Naturally, those genes which exist today are probably pretty good at existing and replicating by whatever means possible. By Whatever Means Possible.
Do they rape for fun though, or to humiliate their victims? I doubt human males rape for the need to bring forth future generations.

One of the problems here in South Africa is child rape. This stems from a belief by some of the rural people that you can cure HIV/AIDS by sleeping with a virgin. Thats why a lot of young girls (sometimes only a couple of months old) get raped here.

Really? That would make them even more stupid than I could possibly have imagined. Even for a poor ignorant human, that's the stupidest thing I've heard in a long time.

Really? That would make them even more stupid than I could possibly have imagined. Even for a poor ignorant human, that's the stupidest thing I've heard in a long time.

You shouldn't. There are people who think having a white skin makes them intelligent. And some of those even have PhDs.:D

You shouldn't. There are people who think having a white skin makes them intelligent. And some of those even have PhDs.:D
Shit. I hate it when you out-clever me. :mad:

That is absolutely horrifying. It's hard to imagine the state of mind a person must be in to commit such an act. They must be desensitized from a very early age. Animals do not even behave like this. Human beings are disgusting.:mad:

Chimpanzees also rape.

Chimpanzees also rape.

How do we know? Is it because, we observed this in their captivity? If you are in similar situation, you will too, like in prison!

Do you know if Chimps only mate with adult\mature chimps?

oh man, 10 seconds after posting that i googled it and it was the first hit. thats some fast spiders there bub.

Do you know if Chimps only mate with adult\mature chimps?
Mate? Do you mean pair bond or sexual? Chimps begin expressing sexual interest well before reproductive sexual maturity (as do humans). They play and "copulate" among many other otherwise "adult" behaviors.

First, never compare the poor West to the real poor people in Poor countries, that is a disgrace and discredit to these people actually living everyday like its their last. Most poor people in the West are poor due to immidiate circumstances, not macro socio economical. I thought rape was clearly defined concesualy in the West. Even intercourse by intoxication or SUI(sex under the influence) isn't considered rape in most countries because lawyers can argue "under duress", even if you sign a major contract under intoxication the law generaly voids the contract(ask a lawyer). The only time rape is a clear cut case is when both parties are sober and there is evidence beyond reasonable doubt it was against the will of one party; just like an other crime. In Africa anybody can get away with crime if you know the right officials, they do try to curb rape and over popuation but in a time and place where most people are concerned about other "more important goals" you can guess the situation there. And part of the backward problem with rape in Africa, at least from the women viewpoint, is that women's rights are just gradually elevating from what they used to be. These are deep rooted African traditions that they have had to let go for sake of common rights. Ironicaly, the problem with many African states is that they got rich too quickly. Nigeria for example, discovered commercial oil and gas barely after 20 years of independence, the officials went on a shopping spree(some of it personal but some included public infratsrcture), thinking the white man would do everything or most for them and failing to develope adequate professional personal, they ended in debt, safe to say "easy come, easy go". They are learning from these mistakes and are in fact out of debt with the Paris Club, not sure about the IMF. kmguru, I don't believe Africans are racist towards Chinese and brown skin, at least not so intentionaly, there are many Chinese oil and gas firms in East Africa. There are man Lebanese in Nigeria, which also used to host a huge East Indian population in the 90's. When it comes to racism there is always a pesonal reason or ignorance behind what you see.

Mate? Do you mean pair bond or sexual? Chimps begin expressing sexual interest well before reproductive sexual maturity (as do humans). They play and "copulate" among many other otherwise "adult" behaviors.

ok, do you know if that is only amongst juveniles? i wonder if they recognize age?

kmguru, I don't believe Africans are racist towards Chinese and brown skin, at least not so intentionaly, there are many Chinese oil and gas firms in East Africa. There are man Lebanese in Nigeria, which also used to host a huge East Indian population in the 90's. When it comes to racism there is always a pesonal reason or ignorance behind what you see.

I am sorry, I did not believe it either. But it is true. We are dealing with business people, diplomats daily from Liberia, Cameroon, Ghana, Uganda, Namibia and South Africa. Liberia has major problems with Chinese and Indians. Next group is Cameroon. They have a problem with the Chinese and then Namibia. Uganda, we do not know yet except they kicked out the Indians, on the other hand we understand that the some Indians do not support the country. We will find out as the business team is coming to US for major economic development.

First of all, the Chinese have a problem with everybody. East Indians are sociopaths because they never mingle with anybody not Indian, that dosn't mean they are not nice. The problem with India and China is that they have this ethnocentrism that stems from being near a billion, but its not excatly ethnocentrism, I think they deal with enough people than to respect another dude from some nationality. You would be humble if your country only had about 8 million people max, just look at belgium.

Do they rape for fun though, or to humiliate their victims? I doubt human males rape for the need to bring forth future generations.

I'm not discounting that some men use rape to humiliate, it's just that, being a man, I know how strong the urge can be to have sex and dominate. It makes evolutionary sense why men would be compelled to rape women. We don't have sexual urges to humiliate or violate or belittle women. We have sexual urges so that we act on them and perpetuate our genes, which will likely bring spawn to a new litter of rapists.

There is some evidence that females in some species, in some sense, "want" to be raped. Female mink, for example, must be attacked by the male and must actually be bled in order for her to ovulate. If she isn't forcefully copulated with, success will not occur. There have also been some studies which indicate that women who have been date raped are more likely to date the rapist again if he was successful in raping her. In other words, she was more attracted to the successful rapist and more repelled by the failed rapist. This, again, makes evolutionary sense. From the evolutionary viewpoint, it is favorable for a woman to mate with a man who is a competent rapist. This is because her progeny will have the genes for being good rapists, and therefore, give her lots of grandchildren. That's the bottom line.

There is some evidence that females in some species, in some sense, "want" to be raped.


These days, I think, if the male has money, the female wants him to rape her knowing that the future generation will grow up and have money to rape others to continue the cycle. Several of my yoga students admitted to go after the rich kids knowing full well that the guys were married. And the guys took the advantage very well.

Is that the logic?

These days, I think, if the male has money, the female wants him to rape her knowing that the future generation will grow up and have money to rape others to continue the cycle. Several of my yoga students admitted to go after the rich kids knowing full well that the guys were married. And the guys took the advantage very well.

Is that the logic?

I think in that case, the women are hoping at some level that the man will break it off with the wife and start a new relationship with them. Or supply them with the genes which has made the successful husband so successful. Or both.

Whereas in the case of women "wanting" to be raped, they most certainly consciously do not want to be raped, but yet somehow situate themselves again and again around aggressive men who tend to be rapists.

So yeah, I can certainly see some parallels.

When I was a teenager, while in a deep petting situation, I almost forced myself because it felt like I was not in control, something else was....so may be that could be the case in certain situations....

A couple of things.

First. They probably don't read english, thus the sign asking them not to rape actually makes them want to rape instead.

Second. I've read somewhere a believable reason. In Africa, you have huge amounts of men moving to cities for employment. Disproportionate amounts of men compared to women equals sexual frustration. Add to this the removal of people from their traditional societies which keep them in check and it spells disaster. Same situation in Mexico. Probably lots of other places too.

I'm not discounting that some men use rape to humiliate, it's just that, being a man, I know how strong the urge can be to have sex and dominate. It makes evolutionary sense why men would be compelled to rape women. We don't have sexual urges to humiliate or violate or belittle women. We have sexual urges so that we act on them and perpetuate our genes, which will likely bring spawn to a new litter of rapists.

There is some evidence that females in some species, in some sense, "want" to be raped. Female mink, for example, must be attacked by the male and must actually be bled in order for her to ovulate. If she isn't forcefully copulated with, success will not occur. There have also been some studies which indicate that women who have been date raped are more likely to date the rapist again if he was successful in raping her. In other words, she was more attracted to the successful rapist and more repelled by the failed rapist. This, again, makes evolutionary sense. From the evolutionary viewpoint, it is favorable for a woman to mate with a man who is a competent rapist. This is because her progeny will have the genes for being good rapists, and therefore, give her lots of grandchildren. That's the bottom line.

I think that is a crock of shit. What studies? I am sure they are totally unbiased. :rolleyes: Even rapists say their motive to rape is to over power women or other males as the case may be. They will even admit it is a power thing rather than a sexual thing. Some already have access to a willing sexual partner/s. Men who rape other men or boys will admit that they find the thought of homosexuality disgusting so it's not for the sex but for the feeling of power that is derived from it. Many rapists are known to be for the most part losers who can't relate to women in any real sense and often were victims of sexual abuse themselves. Yes, there are some women who will date someone who has raped her. She is likely someone who has suffered sexual abuse throughout her life and has not developed proper personal boundries. Most prostitutes are victims of sexual assault. The same thing is seen in women who stay with men who beat them. It's called learned helplessness. Violence is learned. Not all men are mindless neaderthal thugs. You are giving decent men a bad name.

1. What the fuck was your question then?

2. You were talking about how all women are terrified of having sex and how all heterosexual sex is in fact rape. I don't know about you, but that makes women sound like victims to me, and I agree with Looney, you're giving decent men a bad name.

Where does one even begin..

These days, I think, if the male has money, the female wants him to rape her knowing that the future generation will grow up and have money to rape others to continue the cycle. Several of my yoga students admitted to go after the rich kids knowing full well that the guys were married. And the guys took the advantage very well.

Is that the logic?

Firstly, one does not seek to be raped. One does not consent to being raped (be it by a rich or poor rapist) in the hope their rapist will then go on to take care of them and their future offspring. If a person consents, it is not considered rape.

I'm not discounting that some men use rape to humiliate, it's just that, being a man, I know how strong the urge can be to have sex and dominate.
Do you go out and grab the first woman you see and force yourself on her without her consent? Or are you able to control your "urges"?

There have also been some studies which indicate that women who have been date raped are more likely to date the rapist again if he was successful in raping her. In other words, she was more attracted to the successful rapist and more repelled by the failed rapist.
And those studies are where?

Could it be that the female in question may not understand or know that boyfriends and husbands can and do rape their girlfriends and wives? Could it be that she said no, but then he persisted and she does not understand that it is a rape? Could it also be she may feel forced to continue to stay with her rapist out of fear or reprisals if she ever went public?

From the evolutionary viewpoint, it is favorable for a woman to mate with a man who is a competent rapist. This is because her progeny will have the genes for being good rapists, and therefore, give her lots of grandchildren. That's the bottom line.
So, do you rape women thinking they want to be raped, with the knowledge you are breeding a plethora of other little rapists to go forth and plunder in the future?

And no, as a woman, I can assure you, the last thing I would ever do would be to marry or "mate" with a man who raped me. If a man ever dared try, he would most probably find his penis and gonads in a jar by his hospital bed in jail. If either of my son's ever raped a girl, they would also suffer the same fate.

IOW, you are saying that in your opinion, if you were to put a poor person from Malawi next to a poor person from Long Island, both would be astonishingly similar in their goals and outlook.

No, nowhere did I say that (though people everywhere are astonishingly similar). Try again.

So tell me, in countries where the poor are getting richer due to increased investment in infrastructure and education, what has happened to the poor? Have they evolved, d'you think? Reached a higher plane of enlightenment?

Evolved? Unlikely. Especially since evolution requires multiple generations. But I think you knew that.

e.g. my mother was so poor as a child that she never finished her education, wore only one dress that she washed every night and ate only one meal a day for several years. However when she died, she was a rich woman. Hers is not an unusual story in India. So what happened here?

Why don't you tell me sam?

I think that is a crock of shit. What studies? I am sure they are totally unbiased. :rolleyes: Even rapists say their motive to rape is to over power women or other males as the case may be. They will even admit it is a power thing rather than a sexual thing. Some already have access to a willing sexual partner/s. Men who rape other men or boys will admit that they find the thought of homosexuality disgusting so it's not for the sex but for the feeling of power that is derived from it. Many rapists are known to be for the most part losers who can't relate to women in any real sense and often were victims of sexual abuse themselves. Yes, there are some women who will date someone who has raped her. She is likely someone who has suffered sexual abuse throughout her life and has not developed proper personal boundries. Most prostitutes are victims of sexual assault. The same thing is seen in women who stay with men who beat them. It's called learned helplessness. Violence is learned. Not all men are mindless neaderthal thugs. You are giving decent men a bad name.

That's all well and dandy, but those are all proximate causes. If there's an evolutionary cause behind rape, then it's very likely environmental stress that tells the man "hey, you better mate cause you may not get a second chance."

That's all well and dandy, but those are all proximate causes. If there's an evolutionary cause behind rape, then it's very likely environmental stress that tells the man "hey, you better mate cause you may not get a second chance."

Dont be naive. We can look for all the excuses we want, that ^ is going through the mind of a rapist? especially the ones as decribed in this post regarding....i cant even repeat it.:mad:

ok, do you know if that is only amongst juveniles? i wonder if they recognize age?

During puberty, a young male chimp seems to wake up to the nature of the social hierarchy, and starts to respect the dominant male's position, who has his way with all the females first. Most females will let any male mate with her at this time, (even the youngest males who haven't reached puberty). Sometimes, a female is unwilling, but the males are persistent, sometimes using force or intimidation as well as stalking and even kidnapping.

Dont be naive. We can look for all the excuses we want, that ^ is going through the mind of a rapist? especially the ones as decribed in this post regarding....i cant even repeat it.:mad:

It doesn't need to be going through the mind of a rapist's head for it to be true. When you have sex, are you thinking "oh man, I better make a bunch of babies!"? No, of course you don't. You're enjoying how it feels.

During puberty, a young male chimp seems to wake up to the nature of the social hierarchy, and starts to respect the dominant male's position, who has his way with all the females first. Most females will let any male mate with her at this time, (even the youngest males who haven't reached puberty). Sometimes, a female is unwilling, but the males are persistent, sometimes using force or intimidation as well as stalking and even kidnapping.

Fair enough, but humans have a distinct advantage over chimps. The humans who do rape know that it is wrong. Is armed robbery and murder related to evolution?

Even still this is, IMO, as insignificant as fish changing sex and humans having sex changes.

Where does one even begin..

Firstly, one does not seek to be raped. One does not consent to being raped (be it by a rich or poor rapist) in the hope their rapist will then go on to take care of them and their future offspring. If a person consents, it is not considered rape.

You need to read the context first, isolated it sounds bad. the posting was in reply to francois. read it again, you will get it.


Do you go out and grab the first woman you see and force yourself on her without her consent? Or are you able to control your "urges"?

francois is a female...and hence her choice of words are excused...I understood what she was trying to say...so calm down

No, nowhere did I say that (though people everywhere are astonishingly similar). Try again.

I'm poor and stupid. Why don't you elaborate?

what lottery tickets do the malawi buy? what environment is this guy raping?


http://www2.worldvision.org.tw/PIC/Index/malawi_hunger.jpg

Why don't you tell me sam?

I want to hear your explanation.

1. What the fuck was your question then?

2. You were talking about how all women are terrified of having sex and how all heterosexual sex is in fact rape. I don't know about you, but that makes women sound like victims to me, and I agree with Looney, you're giving decent men a bad name.

My bwain is hurting.

....

Yes, it's true, a man's motive in raping a woman is to have power over her.

He's not actually more powerful than her... he just imagines he is.

There's no violence involved in normal sex between 'lovers'.

A man doesn't have to force his penis into a woman, he just yells "open sesame!" and God does the rest. How wonderful to live in a world still controlled by fairy tales and magic.

A man must control his 'urges'. These 'urges' come from his nature and we all know, don't we, how terrible nature is.

Being weak, physically and mentally, is being 'right'. In nature weakness is eradicated. In human society, where humans make up laws, weakness is a virtue we should all aim for.

Women are as strong as men. Blacks are as intelligent as whites. Children should rule the world.

My bwain is hurting.

....

Yes, it's true, a man's motive in raping a woman is to have power over her.

He's not actually more powerful than her... he just imagines he is.

There's no violence involved in normal sex between 'lovers'.

A man doesn't have to force his penis into a woman, he just yells "open sesame!" and God does the rest. How wonderful to live in a world still controlled by fairy tales and magic.

A man must control his 'urges'. These 'urges' come from his nature and we all know, don't we, how terrible nature is.

Being weak, physically and mentally, is being 'right'. In nature weakness is eradicated. In human society, where humans make up laws, weakness is a virtue we should all aim for.

Women are as strong as men. Blacks are as intelligent as whites. Children should rule the world.

How about you grow up, quit your hysterical ranting, and tell me, logically and rationally, why you think I am wrong.

You keep insisting that normal sex between heterosexual lovers is an act of violence/rape/whatever where the man asserts his power over the female. How the hell is that? So even if the woman was yanking at the man's clothes, running her hands all over him, and pestering him for sex, she was raped, because she is a woman and therefore inherently a victim? Idiotic.

And what the hell's with that comment about black and white people? Let me guess, you believe that black people are less intelligent than whites. :rolleyes:

Africa in general is inhabited by less developed, primitive societies which are unable to peacefully govern themselves. The continent is full of such examples.

An apparent solution for them is to let more advanced civilizations (European, Chinese or American) to guide and govern their existance in the hope that in a thousand years maybe they'll develop into modern humans.

Despite the globalization the development age of a particular society is relative. Middle East, for example, is still living at the same level as Europe was in the middle ages. Most of Africa is still inhabited by neolithic societies.

Africa in general is inhabited by less developed, primitive societies which are unable to peacefully govern themselves. The continent is full of such examples.

An apparent solution for them is to let more advanced civilizations (European, Chinese or American) to guide and govern their existance in the hope that in a thousand years maybe they'll develop into modern humans.

Despite the globalization the development age of a particular society is relative. Middle East, for example, is still living at the same level as Europe was in the middle ages. Most of Africa is still inhabited by neolithic societies.

Been to Africa and the Middle East? You might be in for some surprises.

An apparent solution for them is to let more advanced civilizations (European, Chinese or American) to guide and govern their existance in the hope that in a thousand years maybe they'll develop into modern humans.


The worst country in Africa could easily be modernized in less than 20 years. We deal with them on a daily basis. Their knowledge is like swiss cheese. Plug the holes, they are as good if not better than any western country.

The worst country in Africa could easily be modernized in less than 20 years. We deal with them on a daily basis. Their knowledge is like swiss cheese. Plug the holes, they are as good if not better than any western country.

kmguru, what do you think of microcredit finance as a way of empowering the people, especially women?

What's the use of a credit if the next morning you can have a gang of men with assault rifles on your doorstep? I think it would work (works) in India, but not Sudan or Ivory coast.

What's the use of a credit if the next morning you can have a gang of men with assault rifles on your doorstep? I think it would work (works) in India, but not Sudan or Ivory coast.

There are challenges

The official said that data from the forum on micro-credit, held in 2006, indicate the existence of only 40,000 customers served by the micro-finance sector, while another 240,000 are indirect beneficiaries.

However, she admitted that micro-credits are powerful in the fight against poverty, social tension and towards social inclusion. Micro-finances means supply of financial services to low-income families and small entrepreneurs, through professional and brokering institutions.



http://allafrica.com/stories/200712051014.html

Microcredit, tiny loans to the world's poorest, is booming and now benefits more than half a billion people, a survey said on Tuesday, but Africa and Latin America lag behind Asia and unscrupulous lenders are cashing in.

http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/L18522035.htm

But all that means is that we need to work harder on it.

No, no, SAM, they need to work on it too, but for the most par they don't. They just wait for the food to fall from the sky (literally).

They just use whatever they get their hands on and don't think about the interests of others, particulary of people outside their tribe. As I said - neolithic societies.

Imo all material aid should stop immediately, only intellectual and engineering help should remain and increase.
All that they do with their food aid is breed even more thus increasing the amount of those suffering and living in poverty.

No, no, SAM, they need to work on it too, but for the most par they don't. They just wait for the food to fall from the sky (literally).

They just use whatever they get their hands on and don't think about the interests of others, particulary of people outside their tribe. As I said - neolithic societies.

Imo all material aid should stop immediately, only intellectual and engineering help should remain and increase.
All that they do with their food aid is breed even more thus increasing the amount of those suffering and living in poverty.

Its called survival mode.

http://www2.worldvision.org.tw/PIC/Index/malawi_hunger.jpg

Not conducive to thinking about others

I'd call it dumb mode. By working together the benefits are more than for each trying to survive on their own.

I'd call it dumb mode. By working together the benefits are more than for each trying to survive on their own.

Does it? You'd be surprised how motivating for selfishness chronic hunger can be.

Not that non hungry people are less selfish

http://www.globalissues.org/food/aid/

Food aid is a problem, not a solution.

kmguru, what do you think of microcredit finance as a way of empowering the people, especially women?

Good idea like they did in Bangladesh. But it takes too long. Bangladesh is a good example. It will improve the dirt poor status, but still remain poor. The only way to improve is large scale production of goods and services. They do not have to build rocket factories. Even low tech Tourism can improve the bunch quickly. Do you know that Las Vegas visitor spending is $39 Billion per year, that is several times the GDP of most African countries.

The trick is export, export, export. How do you think America got rich? Since first world war they sold all types of sh*t all over the world. Now this generation is eating that income up.

Africans do not know how to convert raw material to high value final products. Once they learn that, it is easy. Remember Africa is full of natural resources and fertile soil with two growing seasons. And Africa has bigger land mass than USA, Europe and China combined (30.2 million km2)

30.2 km2?! :D

30.2 km2?! :D

You are too fast, did not wait for my edit...but your brain should have corrected automatically. Time for a brain tune up.....:D

It did.

Africans do not know how to convert raw material to high value final products. Once they learn that, it is easy. Remember Africa is full of natural resources and fertile soil with two growing seasons. And Africa has bigger land mass than USA, Europe and China combined (30.2 million km2)[/COLOR]

So it all comes back to investment in education.

So it all comes back to investment in education.

I am afraid so. Uneducated people are thought to be stupid. And hence the perception of Africans (Here we are lumping everybody into one group). But the truth is we have been there for the last 60 years from missionary to UN to USAID. We usually send idiots to teach there...so nothing happens. At the same time, we are uneducated about Africa too.