Why are women considered inferior according to Islam? More specifically, why is a rape victim considered a "criminal" worthy of being stoned to death when a rape occurs (unless, of course, there happened to be present four male Muslims of upright character who witnessed the rape and are willing to testify against the rapist)?

For your reference, here is a story of a woman in Pakistan who was raped by her brother-in-law, and is imprisoned on death-row for "her" crime: In Pakistan, Rape Victims Are the 'Criminals' (http://www.geocities.com/inquisitive79/rape.html). This is disgusting beyond belief.

Originally posted by Nehushta
Why are women considered inferior according to Islam? More specifically, why is a rape victim considered a "criminal" worthy of being stoned to death when a rape occurs (unless, of course, there happened to be present four male Muslims of upright character who witnessed the rape and are willing to testify against the rapist)?

It is really amusing to see patheric ignorants and islamophobes coming here spitting their vomit under the disguise of rational debate !! it is really sickning.

Women are not considered inferior according to Islam, before you through accusations, you have to be BRAVE enough to back them up with proofs from the Quran, but since you are patheic LIAR and HATER, nothing of that sort is expected from you.

Name me one American president or even vice-president who happend to be woman ??????????????????

Now, the president of the LARGEST muslim country in the world is MUSLIM WOMAN, president megawati of Indonesia.

in 1991, when MRS. BENAZIR BUTUE was the PRIME MINISTER of Pakistan, one fo the typical ignorant anchors of the CNN declared that Muslim women have no rights to vote !!!!!!!!

PATHETIC.

For your reference, here is a story of a woman in Pakistan who was raped by her brother-in-law, and is imprisoned on death-row for "her" crime: In Pakistan, Rape Victims Are the 'Criminals' (http://www.geocities.com/inquisitive79/rape.html). This is disgusting beyond belief.

What a joke, an obscure site from geocities is your reference !!

GET A LIFE and GIVE UP THE HATE and LOOK AT HOW YOU TREAT YOUR OWN WOMEN IN THE STATES:

VIOLENCE AGAINST WOMEN IN THE UNITED STATES

MURDER :

Every day four women die in the U.S. as a result of domestic violence , The number of women who have been murdered by their intimate partners is greater than the number of soldiers killed in the Vietnam War.

BATTERING:

Although only 572,000 reports of assault by intimates are officially reported to federal officials each year, the most conservative estimates indicate two to four million women of all races and classes are battered each year. At least 170,000 of those violent incidents are serious enough to require hospitalization, emergency room care or a doctor's attention.

SEXUAL ASSAULT :

Every year approximately 132,000 women report that they have been victims of rape or attempted rape, and more than half of them knew their attackers.
It's estimated that two to six times that many women are raped, but do not report it. Every year 1.2 million women are forcibly raped by their current or former male partners, some more than once.

SOURCES:
"Violence Against Women: A National Crime Victimization Survey Report", U.S. Department of Justice, Washington, D.C., January 1994.
"The National Women's Study," Crime Victims Research and Treatment Center, Medical University of South Carolina, Charleston, SC, 1992.
"Five Issues In American Health," American Medical Association,
Chicago, 1991.
Bullock, Linda F. and Judith McFarlane, "The Birth Weight/Battering Connection," Journal of American Nursing, September 1989.
McFarlane, Judith, et. al., "Assessing for Abuse During Pregnancy," Journal of the American Medical Association, June 17, 1992.
Federal Bureau of Investigation statistics, 1992.
Sheehan, Myra A. "An Interstate Compact on Domestic Violence: What are the Advantages?" Juvenile and Family Justice Today, 1993.
Sherman, Lawrence W. et al. Domestic Violence: Experiments and
Dilemmas, 1990.

FACTS ABOUT WOMEN'S ABUSE IN THE 'CIVILIZED' WEST :

* Domestic Violence accounts for a quarter of all reported violent
crime. [Working Party Report, Victim Support, 1992]
* Each year 100,000 women seek treatment in London for violent injuries caused in their homes.
[Punching Judy, BBC TV Documentary, 1989]
* Domestic Violence is not limited to physical assault. It includes
sexual abuse and mental cruelty which undermine a woman's self-esteem. [McGibbon and Kelly, "Abuse of Women in the Home", 1989]
* Research conducted by Police found that 2/3 of all men believed that they would respond violently to their partners in certain situations. [Islington council, 1994]
* Almost half of all murders of women are killings by current or former partners. [National Working Party Report on Domestic Violence, Victim Support, 1992]
From OASIS - "Opposing Abuse with Service, Information, and Shelter". You can visit their website: http://www.oasisinc.org/ Adapted from the American Bar Association.
Every day 4 women are **murdered** by their husbands, boyfriends, or ex-boyfriends after reported abuse.
An estimated 2 to 6 million women are battered annually in the USA.
Battering is the leading cause of injury to women between the ages of 15-44.
One out of four pregnant women are battered. The battering may start or excalate during pregnancy.
Medical expenses from Domestic Violence total at least $3 billion
annually and businesses lose another $100 million in sick leave, absenteeism and productivity.

Every Day four women are murdered by their husbands, boyfriends, or ex-boyfriends after reported abuse.

30% of High School students have experienced physical or sexual
violence in dating relationships. 37% of Men and 35% of Women have inflicted some form of physical aggression on their dating partners.

95% of violent crime on Campus is alcohol or drug related.
37% of the assailants and 55% of victims of rape had used alcohol or other drugs.

There were approximently 4.5 million violent crimes against women in 1992 and 1993. (The Justice Department recognizes that this is an under-estimation of domestic violence and violence against women).
(Bureau of Justice Statistics’ National Crime Victimization Survey).
50% of all women will be involved in some type of abusive relationship in their life time. We could be talking about your daughters, your mothers, your wives, your girlfriends.
In 95% of VIOLENT CRIMES on campuses, ALCOHOL OR DRUGS WERE A FACTOR.

For every 1 rape that IS reported, 10 are NOT reported.

By the most conservative estimate, each year 1 million women suffer nonfatal violence by an intimate. (Bureau of Justice Statistics Special Report: Violence Against Women: Estimates from the Redesigned Survey (NCJ-154348), August 1995, p. 3.)
Other estimates suggest that 4 million American women experience a serious assault by an intimate partner during an average 12-month period.
(American Psychl. Ass’n. Violence and the Family: Report of the American Psychological Association Presidential Task Force on Violence and the Family (1996), p. 10.)

And many more SICKNING STATS ABOUT YOUR 'FREE CIVILIZED' SOCIETY AND HOW YOU TREAT WOMEN......GO FIX YOUR OWN HOUSE BEFORE YOU THROW STONES AT OTHERS.

Originally posted by Proud_Syrian
What a joke, an obscure site from geocities is your reference !!


If you had bothered to look, this article was taken from the NY Times, for which a link was provided. I followed the link before posting, but in order to see a portion of the original article, I had to sign up for a FREE account with the NY Times. Did you do the same before launching into your diatribe against me?

You have completely failed to address the issue at hand, PS. Why is it next to impossible to prosecute a rapist in some Muslim countries? Apparently, a hundred women could witness the rape, but their word would count for absolutely nothing if there were not at least four Muslim men of upstanding character present as well. :rolleyes:

Whether or not this is actually supported in the Quran is somewhat beside the point. This is how the Quran's proscription against adultery has been interpreted and made law in at least some Muslim countries (Pakistan being one of them). The result of this is that women are punished for being raped, while their rapists go free. Do you not find this disturbing?

Originally posted by Proud_Syrian
It is really amusing to see patheric ignorants and islamophobes coming here spitting their vomit under the disguise of rational debate !! it is really sickning.

Women are not considered inferior according to Islam, before you through accusations, you have to be BRAVE enough to back them up with proofs from the Quran, but since you are patheic LIAR and HATER, nothing of that sort is expected from you.
I do not see any venom in Nehushtas question. People can only comment and ask questions based on the knowledge the individuals has. Why can't you answer these kind of questions without being so volatile.

Name me one American president or even vice-president who happend to be woman ??????????????????
I can't name a female President, but have you ever heard of the Queen of England, or remember the "Iron Lady" Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher.

What is your point here?

GO FIX YOUR OWN HOUSE BEFORE YOU THROW STONES AT OTHERS.
I am curious to hear how you explain the following:

Stoning and Prophet Muhammad

The Qur'an (24:2) only stipulates 100 lashes and exile for a year for adultery. However, Prophet Muhammad stoned a number of men and women and so this punishment (Rajam) is Sharia, Islamic Law.

Muslim 680 The Prophet said: "When an unmarried couple fornicate they should receive one hundred lashes and banishment for one year. In the cases of a married male committing adultery with a married female, they shall receive one hundred lashes and be stoned to death. If one of the pair is unmarried, one hundred lashes and exile for a year.

Muslim 682 The Prophet said: "Do not stone the adulteress who is pregnant until she has had her child." After the birth, she was put in a ditch up to her chest and the Prophet commanded them to stone her. Khalid came forward with a stone which he threw at her head, and there spurted blood on the face of Khalid and he cursed her. The gentle Prophet prayed over her and she was buried.

Hadith Malik 493:1520 Ma'iz bin Malik came to Abu Bakr and said: "I am a base fellow for I have committed adultery."
Abu Bakr replied: "Repent before the Lord and tell no one else." The man still felt guilty and went to Umar who gave him the same re-ply. Still feeling guilty he went to the Prophet who asked him if he was ill or mad, married or single. On hearing that Ma'iz was healthy and married, The Prophet ordered him to be stoned to death.

Hadith Malik 493:1524 The Prophet was told: "My son was employed with this man; he committed adultery with his wife. I gave him 100 sheep and a slave girl in compensation." The Prophet said: "Take back your sheep and your slave girl. Your son will receive 100 lashes and a year in exile. As the adultress has confessed she will be stoned."

Bukhari 8:82:816 Umar said, "I am afraid that after a long time has passed, people may say, "We do not find the verses of the Rajam in the Holy Book and consequently they may go astray by leaving an obligation that Allah has revealed. Surely Allah's Apostle carried out the penalty of Rajam, and so did we after him."

"The Life of Muhammad": "To test Muhammad, the rabbis sent to him a married man and a married Jewish woman who had committed adultery together. The Holy Prophet ordered the pair to be stoned. The man bent over his mistress to protect her from the stones, but they were both killed".

Prophet Muhammad had no need for women on the side. Allah gave him dispensation to have as many wives as he wished. (Ten at one time.) Also he could take non-Muslim women as slave girls or concubines.

you equate Pakistani laws/implementation with Islamic principle. You cannot differentiate the two, you trawl up some report from some backwater in Pakstan, then hold it up as evidence against Islam.

Originally posted by Wraith
you equate Pakistani laws/implementation with Islamic principle. You cannot differentiate the two, you trawl up some report from some backwater in Pakstan, then hold it up as evidence against Islam.

And where is the Muslim outcry against these horrific abuses that are still being perpetuated against women in the name of Islam, whether it be in this "backwater in Pakistan," or anywhere else in the world?

Originally posted by Nehushta
If you had bothered to look, this article was taken from the NY Times, for which a link was provided. I followed the link before posting, but in order to see a portion of the original article, I had to sign up for a FREE account with the NY Times. Did you do the same before launchinginto your diatribe against me?

As if NEW YORK TIMES a credible source of information !!

:rolleyes:

You have completely failed to address the issue at hand, PS. Why is it next to impossible to prosecute a rapist in some Muslim countries? Apparently, a hundred women could witness the rape, but their word would count for absolutely nothing if there were not at least four Muslim men of upstanding character present as well.

What about this ?

http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2002/08/27/1030053058997.html

Whether or not this is actually supported in the Quran is somewhat beside the point. This is how the Quran's proscription against adultery has been interpreted and made law in at least some Muslim countries (Pakistan being one of them). The result of this is that women are punished for being raped, while their rapists go free. Do you not find this disturbing?

What I find disturbing is your ignorance about the Quran and its stand on the rape issues, I asked you to PROVE from the Quran that Islam punish the rape victims, but obivously, you failed to provide a SINGLE evidence or verse to support your allegation.

Can you please answer my points about the RAPE, THE MURDER AND THE SEXUAL ABUSE OF WOMEN IN YOUR 'FREE CIVILIZED' COUNTRY !!

in our supposedly enlightened cultures, the rape victim is often held responsible for the crime for the most outrageous reasons

do not pretend ignorance. it is not islam but a culture of worldwide fascist patriarchy aimed at keepin the bitches hot, horny, compliant and at fault if events spiral out of control.

i condemn all men!

Originally posted by Vienna

I can't name a female President, but have you ever heard of the Queen of England, or remember the "Iron Lady" Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher.

I did not know Queen Elizabeeth II was DEMOCRATICLY ELECTED !!!

:rolleyes:

I am curious to hear how you explain the following:

The Qur'an (24:2) only stipulates 100 lashes and exile for a year for adultery. However, Prophet Muhammad stoned a number of men and women and so this punishment (Rajam) is Sharia, Islamic Law.

This is the 24:2 :

'' The woman and the man guilty of illegal sexual intercourse, flog each of them with a hundred stripes. Let not pity withhold you in their case, in a punishment prescribed by Allâh, if you believe in Allâh and the Last Day. And let a party of the believers witness their punishment.''

SO THIS VERSE ACTUALLY DESTROY YOUR LIES ABOUT STONNING OR PUNISHING WOMEN ONLY, BECAUSE THE ABOVE VERSE TALKS ABOUT THE WOMEN AND THE MEN EQUALLY...

Thanks for helping me by brining it up.

Muslim 680 The Prophet said: "When an unmarried couple fornicate they should receive one hundred lashes and banishment for one year. In the cases of a married male committing adultery with a married female, they shall receive one hundred lashes and be stoned to death. If one of the pair is unmarried, one hundred lashes and exile for a year.

I dont know if you really know what you are COPYING AND PASTING from hate sites, can you tell me who is Muslim and what 680 means ?????????????????????????????????

IDIOT.

:D

for reasons unknown to me, i feel somewhat aroused:confused:

Originally posted by Wraith
you equate Pakistani laws/implementation with Islamic principle. You cannot differentiate the two, you trawl up some report from some backwater in Pakstan, then hold it up as evidence against Islam.

Well said Wraith, those pathetic haters can do anything to bash Islam even if that meant questioning their own reason and logic.

damn syrian
you rock!

*you also screwed the sequence of my post

Originally posted by spookz
for reasons unknown to me, i feel somewhat aroused:confused:

I know.....it must have been the SITE I posted the other day about pornography in the bible........remember ?

here is it again:

Genesis 19:31-38

http://www.biblesexstories.com/stories/images/lot_daughters.jpg

[31] And the firstborn said unto the younger, Our father is old, and there is not a man in the earth to come in unto us after the manner of all the earth:
[32] Come, let us make our father drink wine, and we will lie with him, that we may preserve seed of our father.
[33] And they made their father drink wine that night: and the firstborn went in, and lay with her father; and he perceived not when she lay down, nor when she arose.
[34] And it came to pass on the morrow, that the firstborn said unto the younger, Behold, I lay yesternight with my father: let us make him drink wine this night also; and go thou in, and lie with him, that we may preserve seed of our Father.
[35] And they made their father drink wine that night also: and the younger arose, and lay with him; and he perceived not when she lay down, nor when she arose.
[36] Thus were both the daughters of Lot with child by their father.
[37] And the firstborn bare a son, and called his name Moab: the same is the father of the Moabites unto this day.
[38] And the younger, she also bare a son, and called his name Benammi: the same is the father of the children of Ammon unto this day.

http://www.biblesexstories.com

Originally posted by Nehushta
And where is the Muslim outcry against these horrific abuses that are still being perpetuated against women in the name of Islam, whether it be in this "backwater in Pakistan," or anywhere else in the world?

???? ermm well you certainly dont know about them.
I tell you what germaine friggin greer, why don't you concentrate on what's happening in your own backyard.

you have neither the desire nor the intention to find out what's happening in the muslim world.

Originally posted by Nehushta
And where is the Muslim outcry against these horrific abuses that are still being perpetuated against women in the name of Islam, whether it be in this "backwater in Pakistan," or anywhere else in the world?

And who told you that these abuses are done by the name of Islam ?????????????????

Where is the AMERICAN outcry for the 4 AMERICAN WOMEN ** MURDERED** EVERY DAY AS A RESULT OF DOMESTIC VIOLENCE ????????????

LET US SEE HOW VIENNA'S WOMEN ARE TREATED IN ENGLAND ?

English Women are increasingly turning to serious and violent crimes because they have been brutalised by violence against them, according to a controversial report to be published this week.

Home Office figures last week showed the majority of female prisoners now reoffend within two years of being released, suggesting they are becoming more hardened criminals.

http://society.guardian.co.uk/crimeandpunishment/story/0,8150,1086316,00.html

ENGLISH RAPISTS GET 180 HOURS COMMUNITY SERVICE FOR THEIR CRIME !!! VERY CIVILIZED INDEED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

STATISTICS
Rape is a common crime with a conviction rate of below 10% and sentences as low as 180 hours community service.

Between 1996 and 1997 the number of women reporting rape increased by over 500%. Yet convictions have remained almost static, meaning that whilst in 1977 1 in 3 women reporting rape saw their rapists convicted, in 1996 less than 1 in 10 did. The criminal justice system is currently failing women, not just those who report rape, but every woman, since the message being sent out is that rape is a low risk, high reward activity.

http://www.rapecrisis.co.uk/statistics.htm

Originally posted by Proud_Syrian
As if NEW YORK TIMES a credible source of information !!

Apparently the only credible source of information would be an Islamic one. :rolleyes:

What about this ?

http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2002/08/27/1030053058997.html

What about it? It says the man who was convicted of raping a 9-year old girl was sentenced to death by stoning. On the other hand, it says a 30-year old woman who had a child out of wedlock was also sentenced to death by stoning. How inspiring. :rolleyes:

What I find disturbing is your ignorance about the Quran and its stand on the rape issues, I asked you to PROVE from the Quran that Islam punish the rape victims, but obivously, you failed to provide a SINGLE evidence or verse to support your allegation.

From what I can tell, the Quran is virtually silent on the subject of rape. It does address the issue of forcing girls into prostitution, but to the best of my knowledge, that's about as far as it goes (I would be happy if you could show me otherwise, so please feel free to do so, if you can). Of course, that brings to mind the question of why the Quran would be silent on this issue?

Can you please answer my points about the RAPE, THE MURDER AND THE SEXUAL ABUSE OF WOMEN IN YOUR 'FREE CIVILIZED' COUNTRY !!

This goes on in every country, PS. The test of a civilized country is whether or not the right person is prosecuted and punished for it when charges are brought - i.e., is it the perpetrator or his victim? Should we apply this test to the U.S. versus Islamic countries, PS? Which do you think would fare better?

This goes on in every country

doesn't it just. Exactly.

haven't you got some bra burning to do?

Originally posted by Proud_Syrian
STATISTICS
Rape is a common crime with a conviction rate of below 10% and sentences as low as 180 hours community service.

Between 1996 and 1997 the number of women reporting rape increased by over 500%. Yet convictions have remained almost static, meaning that whilst in 1977 1 in 3 women reporting rape saw their rapists convicted, in 1996 less than 1 in 10 did. The criminal justice system is currently failing women, not just those who report rape, but every woman, since the message being sent out is that rape is a low risk, high reward activity.

http://www.rapecrisis.co.uk/statistics.htm

Apparently I missed the part where English women are being stoned to death for reporting a rape and failing to prove it. :rolleyes:

Originally posted by Wraith
doesn't it just. Exactly.

haven't you got some bra burning to do?

My point, which you apparently missed, was that in civilized countries, it is the rapist who is tried and, if found guilty, punished. The victim is never sentenced to death for failing to prove rape! Furthermore, she is not required to produce four male witnesses in order to prove rape!

Originally posted by Nehushta
Apparently the only credible source of information would be an Islamic one.

or Jewish one for example !!!!

What about it? It says the man who was convicted of raping a 9-year old girl was sentenced to death by stoning. On the other hand, it says a 30-year old woman who had a child out of wedlock was also sentenced to death by stoning. How inspiring.

This is even more inspiring:

http://www.afrol.com/News2002/nig005_sharia_acquit.htm

From what I can tell, the Quran is virtually silent on the subject of rape. It does address the issue of forcing girls into prostitution, but to the best of my knowledge, that's about as far as it goes (I would be happy if you could show me otherwise, so please feel free to do so, if you can). Of course, that brings to mind the question of why the Quran would be silent on this issue?

Oh I see !! So I understand that you read the Quran and you came with your above conclusion, right ??

Here is something you NEVER heard of in your 'FAIR AND BALANCED' media:

''O ye who believe! Ye are forbidden to inherit women against their will. Nor should ye treat them with harshness, that ye may take away part of the dower [money given by the husband to the wife for the marriage contract] ye have given them, except where they have been guilty of open lewdness; on the contrary live with them on a footing of kindness and equity. If ye take a dislike to them it may be that ye dislike a thing, and God brings about through it a great deal of good. (The Noble Quran, 4:19)"

''And among God's signs is this: He created for you mates from amongst yourselves (males as mates for females and vice versa) that you might find tranquillity and peace in them. And he has put love and kindness among you. Herein surely are signs for those who reflect (The Holy Quran 30:21)."

''And when you men have divorced women, ...then either retain them in kindness if you reconcile, or part with them in kindness. Do not retain them to harm them so that you transgress limits. He who does this has wronged himself (The Holy Quran 2:231)."

This goes on in every country, PS. The test of a civilized country is whether or not the right person is prosecuted and punished for it when charges are brought - i.e., is it the perpetrator or his victim? Should we apply this test to the U.S. versus Islamic countries, PS? Which do you think would fare better?

This is utter nonesense, if you really have this system that prosecute the rapists and the killers, why on earth then 4 AMERICAN WOMEN GET KILLED EVERY SINGLE DAY AS A RESULT OF DOMESTIC VIOLENCE ? AND WHY ON EARTH 8000,000 ( 8 MILLION ) AMERICAN WOMEN GET RAPED EVERY YEAR IN THE USA ? ARE YOU TELLING ME YOU HAVE NOW 8 MILLION MAN BEHIND BARS ???????????????? GIVE ME A BREAK.

Originally posted by Proud_Syrian
And who told you that these abuses are done by the name of Islam ?????????????????

Um, it was in that article you posted the link, to, PS:

A spokesman for Jigawa state Usman Dutse said on Tuesday that the 54-year-old man had confessed to the crime and refused an offer to allow him to appeal against the sentence imposed under Islamic law, or Sharia...

..."In Sharia there is no compromise. The only compromise is if someone should appeal," Mr Dutse told AFP...

..."It's not the role of the Governor to decide; it's for the Sharia court. Once the decision has been made, it's a divine decision," he said.

The 30-year old woman in that article was also sentenced to death under Islamic law.

Where is the AMERICAN outcry for the [B]4 AMERICAN WOMEN ** MURDERED** EVERY DAY AS A RESULT OF DOMESTIC VIOLENCE ????????????

Here are a few sites for you - do you need more?

Stop Violence Against Women (http://www.stopvaw.org)
Office on Violence Against Women (http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/vawo)
Rape, Abuse & Incest National Network (http://www.rainn.org)

Originally posted by Nehushta
Apparently I missed the part where English women are being stoned to death for reporting a rape and failing to prove it. :rolleyes:

Can you show me a CRDIBLE source of where a muslim woman was stoned because she reported a rape ?

in the meantime and while you are SNIFFING through the anti muslim hate sites, here is something to entertain you:

http://www.rapecrisis.co.uk/rape.htm

http://www.manchesteronline.co.uk/news/stories/Detail_LinkStory=67683.html

I still cant believe it: 4 AMERICAN WOMEN GET KILLED EVERY SINGLE DAY AS A RESULT OF DOMESTIC VIOLENCE AND YOU ARE HERE LIKE 'WET CAT' NAGGING ABOUT FALSE STORIES ?????

:rolleyes:

Originally posted by Nehushta
Um, it was in that article you posted the link, to, PS:

Are you that dumb ? we already established that I dont accept HEARSAY and HATE BULLSHITE.........do you I need to repeat myself?????????

Here are a few sites for you - do you need more?

And what those are doing ? are they stoping the RAPE ? are they stopping the 4 AMERICAN WOMEN FROM GETTING KILLED EVERY SINGLE DAY ????????????????????????????????

Here you go something to EDUCATE you, it is in America:

http://www.mwlusa.org/

http://www.azizahmagazine.com/

Originally posted by Proud_Syrian
Oh I see !! So I understand that you read the Quran and you came with your above conclusion, right ??

I did state that I would be happy if you would prove otherwise, but so far you have failed to mention even one verse from the Quran that specifically condemns rape.

This is utter nonesense, if you really have this system that prosecute the rapists and the killers, why on earth then [B]4 AMERICAN WOMEN GET KILLED EVERY SINGLE DAY AS A RESULT OF DOMESTIC VIOLENCE ? AND WHY ON EARTH 8000,000 ( 8 MILLION ) AMERICAN WOMEN GET RAPED EVERY YEAR IN THE USA ? ARE YOU TELLING ME YOU HAVE NOW 8 MILLION MAN BEHIND BARS ???????????????? GIVE ME A BREAK.

8,000,000 American women are raped each year? Hmmm...there seems to be a, uh, slight discrepancy between your numbers and the statistics reported in this article:

New Report Shows Dramatic Increase in Willingness to Report Rape to Police (http://www.rainn.org/news/ncvs2002.html)

Anyone can leave Christianity of their own freewill and thats it. But if a Muslim leaves Islam they are called apostates and it carries the death penalty - just for leaving Islam.

How reasonable and tolerant Islam is- NOT.

CLICK HERE TO LEARN THE TRUTHS BEHIND ISLAM. APOSTATES OF ISLAM. (http://www.apostatesofislam.com)

Stoning to Death

http://www.apostatesofislam.com/media/stoning.htm

Stoning to death is a cruel insane Islamic punishment given to people who are married but still voluntarily have sex outside marraige. This punishment was ordered by the "merciful" Prophet, who ofcourse was the messenger of the "merciful" Allah.

Many hadith, including Sahih Bukhari give proof that Stoning was ordered and practiced by Muhammed, for example:

Volume 2, Book 23, Number 413:
Narrated 'Abdullah bin 'Umar :
The Jew brought to the Prophet a man and a woman from amongst them who have committed (adultery) illegal sexual intercourse. He ordered both of them to be stoned (to death), near the place of offering the funeral prayers beside the mosque."

Stop the stoning - The suffering must end

http://www.mertonai.org/amina/images/aminaLawal.jpg

http://www.mertonai.org/amina/

Stoning in Islam - According to Hadith Sahih

http://www.faithfreedom.org/Articles/stoning.htm

Originally posted by Proud_Syrian
Are you that dumb ? we already established that I dont accept HEARSAY and HATE BULLSHITE.........do you I need to repeat myself?????????

Are you saying that the article you posted the link to was hearsay and B.S.? Then why did you post it?

And what those are doing ? are they stoping the RAPE ? are they stopping the 4 AMERICAN WOMEN FROM GETTING KILLED EVERY SINGLE DAY ????????????????????????????????

Their magic wand is broken, PS. :rolleyes: They are working on the problem and obviously they are making inroads. That is the important thing to consider.

But if you think it is fair to judge these groups by whether or not they've wiped out 100% of all instances of rape and violence against women, then it is only fair to ask you the same thing about the 2 websites for Muslim women that you listed? Not that I have a problem with those sites at all - I thought they looked pretty good, myself. But no one group can accomplish these things overnight. The important thing is that they're trying to do something to educate and enlighten people, and they are making progress toward their goals.

There's no need for you to be so vituperative in your responses, PS. It only makes you look ridiculous. Either acknowledge that there is a problem that needs to be addressed, or prove that there isn't.

Here are some more links that provide support for my point, which I hope you will not dismiss as "hearsay":

Pakistan’s rape victims are punished by law (http://www.newsindia-times.com/2002/07/05/women-top.html)

Blaming the Victim (http://www.time.com/time/asia/magazine/article/0,13673,501020527-238673,00.html)

And last, but certainly not least, here is an article from one of the links you provided:

Muslim Family Law: The Latest Assault on Society (http://www.mwlusa.org/news/news_pakistan.html)

Originally posted by Vienna
Anyone can leave Christianity of their own freewill and thats it. But if a Muslim leaves Islam they are called apostates and it carries the death penalty - just for leaving Islam.

How reasonable and tolerant Islam is- NOT.

CLICK HERE TO LEARN THE TRUTHS BEHIND ISLAM. APOSTATES OF ISLAM. (http://www.apostatesofislam.com)

Stoning to Death

http://www.apostatesofislam.com/media/stoning.htm

Stoning to death is a cruel insane Islamic punishment given to people who are married but still voluntarily have sex outside marraige. This punishment was ordered by the "merciful" Prophet, who ofcourse was the messenger of the "merciful" Allah.

Many hadith, including Sahih Bukhari give proof that Stoning was ordered and practiced by Muhammed, for example:

Volume 2, Book 23, Number 413:
Narrated 'Abdullah bin 'Umar :
The Jew brought to the Prophet a man and a woman from amongst them who have committed (adultery) illegal sexual intercourse. He ordered both of them to be stoned (to death), near the place of offering the funeral prayers beside the mosque."

Stop the stoning - The suffering must end

http://www.mertonai.org/amina/images/aminaLawal.jpg

http://www.mertonai.org/amina/

Stoning in Islam - According to Hadith Sahih

http://www.faithfreedom.org/Articles/stoning.htm

same websties again?? weren't you over with all that?

Vienna here you are again?? I mean i thought you were over the stonning after I explained it to you that it is not that simple as you imagined. In last 50 years how many stonning cases do you recall? You are stuck with stonning pretty bad that you can't see any further, you failed to undestand that law, remember what I told you , when I FUCK your wife and You can't produce three eye witnesses then I really didn't fuck her, even thou we did. You can't stone her or me now. So Amina is not stonned yet however you sounded pretty stonned time to time, oh and hey how was the turkey day in england, was it fun?? i didnt see you for last few days vomiting around, were you building a fence around your home? did you buy the sign *islamists stay away* ?? lol

Funny for fucked ups like you and nehustsa or whatever his names is one single news is enough to paint a whole religion with abuse . Nothing to blame like eduation, backward living, no common sense or any other possible explaintion but Islam. pretty cool huh?

Originally posted by Nehushta
I did state that I would be happy if you would prove otherwise, but so far you have failed to mention even one verse from the Quran that specifically condemns rape.

Hell, do you understand English ?? Even the Idiot vienna posted a verse from the Quran that shows CLEARLY the condemnation of rape in the Quran.

8,000,000 American women are raped each year? Hmmm...there seems to be a, uh, slight discrepancy between your numbers and the statistics reported in this article:

New Report Shows Dramatic Increase in Willingness to Report Rape to Police (http://www.rainn.org/news/ncvs2002.html)

From your own site:

''The percentage of all rapes and sexual assaults that were reported to police rose to 53.7% last year, up from less than 30% in 1999, the report found. ''

there are still 47 % of raped women who DONT report....LONG WAY AHEAD.

:rolleyes:

I am still waiting to name me ONE american president or even vice-president who happen to be Woman !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Originally posted by Proud_Syrian
I still cant believe it: 4 AMERICAN WOMEN GET KILLED EVERY SINGLE DAY AS A RESULT OF DOMESTIC VIOLENCE AND YOU ARE HERE LIKE 'WET CAT' NAGGING ABOUT FALSE STORIES ?????

:rolleyes:

well its not important to them. as long as it happens in west it is not religion they will think of a fancy name for that but as soon as it will happen in islamic countery they will start vomiting. typical christian fundo behaviour. PS they are islamophobes if they will hear muslim sneeze they will blame it on Islam.:D

Originally posted by Proud_Syrian

I am still waiting to name me ONE american president or even vice-president who happen to be Woman !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


they can't. and Queen wasn't elected demon cracticly so you can count her out. There have been more muslim female prime ministers and even a president then west. but it is not important since they very opressed lol.

Great treatment of women according to biblical laws and even by jesus.:o




http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Academy/7368/w_comparison_full2.htm


:rolleyes:

Originally posted by skywalker
they can't. and Queen wasn't elected demon cracticly so you can count her out. There have been more muslim female prime ministers and even a president then west. but it is not important since they very opressed lol.
Margaret Thatcher - British Prime Minister.

Originally posted by skywalker Nothing to blame like eduation, backward living, no common sense or any other possible explaintion but Islam. pretty cool huh?
Only "pretty cool huh? when Islam forbids stoning.

Show me where Islamic Law forbids stoning.

Why is there a death penalty on any muslim who leaves Islam?

Apostates

Originally posted by Vienna
Anyone can leave Christianity of their own freewill and thats it. But if a Muslim leaves Islam they are called apostates and it carries the death penalty - just for leaving Islam.

How reasonable and tolerant Islam is- NOT.

HERE IS MY CHALLENGE TO YOU, SHOW ME ONE VERSE FROM THE QURAN THAT CALLS FOR THE DEATH OF THOSE WHO LEAVE ISLAM AND I WILL CONVERT TO CHRISTIANITY STRAIGHT AWAY !!!!!!!!!!!!! THIS IS OPEN CHALLENGE TO EVERY ONE HERE.......COME ON, GO AHEAD.......YOU HAVE ALL THE ANTI MUSLIM HATE SITES IN THE WORLD TO SNIFF THROUGH !!!!!

In the meantime, let us read how the bible treats those who LEAVE christianity or even preach other religion:

Stoning for preaching a different religion in the BIBLE:

Deuteronomy 13:6-11 "If your brother, the son of your mother, or your son, or your daughter, or the wife of your bosom, or your friend who is as your own soul, entices you secretly, saying, `Let us go and serve other gods,' which neither you nor your fathers have known, some of the gods of the peoples that are round about you, whether near you or far off from you, from the one end of the earth to the other, you shall not yield to him or listen to him, nor shall your eye pity him, nor shall you spare him, nor shall you conceal him; but you shall kill him; your hand shall be first against him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people. You shall stone him to death with stones, because he sought to draw you away from the LORD your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. And all Israel shall hear, and fear, and never again do any such wickedness as this among you.


Stoning for practising a different religion

Deuteronomy 17:1-7 ".........and you shall stone that man or woman to death with stones. On the evidence of two witnesses or of three witnesses he that is to die shall be put to death..''

Stoning to death is a cruel insane Islamic punishment given to people who are married but still voluntarily have sex outside marraige. This punishment was ordered by the "merciful" Prophet, who ofcourse was the messenger of the "merciful" Allah.][/QUOTE]

And the amazing thing is that this UNCIRCUMCIZED ANIMAL is quoeting from christian hate anti muslim site, let us read about stoning to death in the bible.....here is the MOTHER OF ALL LINKS:

http://www.free-minds.org/bible.htm

And regarding this Nigerian woman that you put her picture, SHE WAS FREED BY THE SAME ISLAMIC SHARIA LAW, BUT OF COURSE, THE ANTI MUSLIM HATE SITES DONT REPORT IT, TOO EMBARRASSING !!! and here is an AFRICAN link about her:

Shari'a court acquits Nigerian girl of adultery:

http://www.afrol.com/News2002/nig005_sharia_acquit.htm

and even the BBC reported it, where have you been vienna ? abusing your wife ???

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/3137890.stm


Stop the stoning - The suffering must end

Stoning in Islam - According to Hadith Sahih

http://www.faithfreedom.org/Articles/stoning.htm

:D
You are quoting from faithfreedom.org !!! this is very famous HATE SITE which is 'helping muslims leaving Islam ! '

the funny thing is that they quote hadiths that dont exist !! how absurd !!!

But dont worry , our counter site that will refute all the LIES in the hate site is now in its first stages:

http://www.faithfreedom.com

All your lies will be exposed, refuted and you will be the laughing stock every time you dare to bash Islam, now, go abuse your wife .....be typical English man....come on !

:D

interesing find.

What is the punishment for rape in Christianity ?

In Christianity:

Christians follow the laws of the Bible only. All of their religious sources, laws and verdicts come straight from the Bible (if we were to have true Christian countries where Church would rule over the State), except for Roman Catholics where they have other Volumes written by Church Fathers and Popes. But most Christians in the world have no religious resources other than the Bible.

Therefore, let us look at what the Bible says regarding this issue:

Rape is a big crime that could actually take the woman's or the victim's life away. how Christianity deals with the rapist: "If a man happens to meet a virgin who is not pledged to be married and rapes her and they are discovered, he shall pay the girl's father fifty shekels of silver. He must marry the girl, for he has violated her. He can never divorce her as long as he lives. (From the NIV Bible, Deuteronomy 22:28)" Although this Verse from the Bible only talks about virgins, but its the only verse in the entire Bible that talks about raping single women. Not to be biased or anything, but the Bible seems to have quite weird things in it that are quite irrational and quite ridiculous. Deuteronomy 22:28 forces the raped woman to marry her rapist. My question to the writers of the Bible is why in the world would any raped female victim want to be in the same town, not the same bedroom !! with her rapist?.

Also, the Bible seems to promote raping of single women: "But if out in the country a man happens to meet a girl pledged to be married and rapes her, only the man who has done this shall die. (From the NIV Bible, Deuteronomy 22:25)" This is quite an interesting verse. We see in Deuteronomy 22:28 that if a man rapes a single woman then she will be forced to be his wife, while if a man rapes a married woman in Deuteronomy 22:25, then he shall be put to death. There is absolutely no punishment for the rapist of a single woman in the Bible. For those Christians who think that they don't have to follow the Old Testament, well my answer to them is this: The Old Testament prohibits for the brother to marry his sister, or for the son to marry his mother. The New Testament doesn't even talk about it. Does that mean that a Christian brother can marry his sister? or a Christian son can marry his mother? Jesus himself anyway ordered his followers to follow the Old Testament, so their argument is totally invalid.

Question to Jews and Christians: How is the Bible supposed to prevent some lone from raping a beautiful single woman in town, and then sue her in court to become his wife so he can continue raping her for the rest of her life?!

Gross.

Originally posted by Vienna
Only "pretty cool huh? when Islam forbids stoning.

Show me where Islamic Law forbids stoning.

Why is there a death penalty on any muslim who leaves Islam?

Apostates


It shouldn't because people like you can rape any one any where according to your own bible. Pretty scarry if u as me.

Originally posted by Vienna
Margaret Thatcher - British Prime Minister.

oh wow amazing one woman prime minister. wow. go on kepp trying.

Originally posted by skywalker
Great treatment of women according to biblical laws and even by jesus.:o




http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Academy/7368/w_comparison_full2.htm


:rolleyes:

missed my link vienna? haha

Originally posted by skywalker
Vienna here you are again??
Shall I stoop to your level of argument, you know - the Islamic way.
oh and hey how was the turkey day in england, was it fun??
No I didn't think it was funny. But if you had been in one of those buildings and got your sorry black arse blown off, then it might raise a smile. LOL!

Come on - lets get multicultural - why should insults be all one-sided you sad black muslim fucker. :)

By the way - your sorry weak arsed stupid bible links don't mean jack shit to me - shove em where the sun dont shine monkeyface.

Instant Death to Apostates (those who desert their religion) in the Bible in both the Old Testament and the New Testament:

Please note that I just would like to prove to the reader that the Bible gives absolutely no religious freedom what so ever. Most of the Christians in the United States and the West think that the freedom of choice and speech that they have comes originally from the Bible. I am trying to disprove this belief and not give the Bible something that it does not deserve.

Let us look at Deuteronomy 13:6-9 "If your very own brother, or your son or daughter, or the wife you love, or your closest friend secretly entices you, saying: Let us go and worship other gods (gods that neither you nor your fathers have known, gods of the peoples around you, whether near or far, from one end of the land to the other, or gods of other religions), do not yield to him or listen to him. Show him no pity. Do not spare him or shield him. You must certainly put him to death. Your hand must be the first in putting him to death, and then the hands of all the people."

Also let us look at Deuteronomy 17:3-5 "And he should go and worship other gods and bow down to them or to the sun or the moon or all the army of the heavens, .....and you must stone such one with stones and such one must die."

This verse was sent to me by Yusif 65; may Allah Almighty always be pleased with him: 2 Chronicles 15:13 "All who would not seek the LORD, the God of Israel, were to be put to death, whether small or great, man or woman."

Also let us look at Romans 1:20-32 (from the New Testament) "20. For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities--his eternal power and divine nature--have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.
21. For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened.
22. Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools
23. and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like mortal man and birds and animals and reptiles.
24. Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another.
25. They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator--who is forever praised. Amen.
26. Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones.
27. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion.
28. Furthermore, since they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, he gave them over to a depraved mind, to do what ought not to be done.
29. They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips,
30. slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents;
31. they are senseless, faithless, heartless, ruthless.
32. Although they know God's righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them."

We also read about Jesus ordering the killing of apostates (those who desert him) "I am the vine; you are the branches. If a man remains in me and I in him, he will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing. If anyone does not remain in me, he is like a branch that is thrown away an withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned. (John 15:5-6)" Apostates are to be burned alive according to the new testament. Of course as a Muslim I don't believe that Jesus ever said that. The Bible is full of corruptions that give wrong the picture about Jesus.

Even Psychics must be put to death. Let us look at Leviticus 20:27 "And as for a man or woman in whom there proves to be a mediumistic spirit or spirit of prediction, they should be put to death without fail. They should pelt them to death with stones. Their own blood is upon them."

The above verses clearly show that once a person becomes a Christian, then he is pretty much stuck with it and can't leave it. The above laws order mothers to kill their sons or daughters, brothers to kill their own brothers or sisters, fathers to kill their own sons or daughters, or friends to kill their own friends if they decide to follow another religion. There must be no mercy given to the person nor a chance for him or her to repent. Kill him/her immediately !!!. Stone him/her to death immediately !!!.

Jesus did honor the Old Testament's laws and ordered his followers (the Christians as we call them today) to follow the Old Testament until the day of Judgment:

Jesus said: "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law (the Old Testament) or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke or a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law (the Old Testament) until everything is accomplished. (Matthew 5:17-18)"

Christians always say as an excuse "Oh this law doesn't exist in the New Testament, it is only the Old Testament." Well, according to Matthew 5:17-18 above, we clearly see that Jesus honored the Old Testament, and forces Christians to follow the unmodified laws of it that have not been replaced by newer ones in the New Testament. The Old Testament as we clearly see above orders the immediate killing of apostates/renegades. The New Testament as we also clearly see above, orders the death of the apostates/renegades. And according to Matthew 5:17-18 above, apostates/renegades in Christianity must be put to death simultaneously.

It is quite unfortunate that in the middle centuries when the Church used to rule over everything, the minority Christians and the Christian Scientists were slaughtered and put to death by the majority Christians just because the Priests and Ministers of the High Church decided to call those minority Christians and the Christian Scientists Apostates or Renegades (those who leave their religion).

The Bible does give authority to the Priests and Ministers to call someone an apostate. Let us look at 1Corinthians 2:15 "The spiritual man makes judgments about all things, but he himself is not subject to any man's judgment." The Bible does indeed rely heavily on people to judge other people regardless of the amount of evidence that can be provided. This philosophy in the Bible does promote corruption and confusion among people. It also promotes divisions and sects in the religion.

Clearly, the tragedies that history had witnessed in the middle centuries of Christians slaughtering other Christians and non Christians, and the formation of Catholics and Protestants in Europe, and the brutal slavery in the United States that was approved by the Church (to enslave Africans and to bring them to the U.S.) indicates that the Bible is a corrupted book, and is the main cause for all the killings and massacres that took place in history. Why do you think that most of the killings and massacres that happened throughout history, happened mostly from Christians? All it takes to create a massacre is to have the Priest or Minister of the Majority Christians declare the other group of minority Christians as "NON-BELIEVERS" and say that they are no longer Christians, and since they are no longer Christians in the eyes of the stronger church, then killing them would be absolutely lawful according to the Bible. In fact, killing them not only becomes lawful, but it also becomes mandatory according to Deuteronomy 13:6-9, Deuteronomy 17:3-5 and Romans 1:20-32 above.

The religion of Islam on the other hand gives absolute freedom of religion. Allah Almighty (GOD) prohibits Muslims to force anyone to Islam. Muslims are not supposed to make people resent Islam by their acts. Islam teaches us that a person can only believe in God by peace.



Conclusion:

The Bible in both the Old Testament and the New Testament doesn't tolerate apostates, and orders for them to be killed. The Bible does order men and women (spiritual leaders and religious people) to be judgmental, and to kill those who don't agree with them in the most painful death, by stoning them to death! There is no room for being creative and free in the real Christian society. You must obey the rules, or else you shall lose your life!.

The Bible in my opinion contradicts itself by presenting itself as a "Book of Love" and yet it is at the same time the worst judgmental book ever!



can you please continue vomiting. lol

Originally posted by Vienna


Come on - lets get multicultural - why should insults be all one-sided you sad black muslim fucker. :)

are you hating blacks now?? awwww seems like so tolerabe so peacfull christian. don't get frustrated kido. You just don't know your own religion i teach you little now ok? yes they shouldn't be one sided that is why i am here 4 u.

Originally posted by Nehushta
Are you saying that the article you posted the link to was hearsay and B.S.? Then why did you post it?

You are making youself a joke !! you post a GEOCITIES.COM site wanting us to believe it!! give us a break.

I am quoting from MAIN SOURCES, FIRST HAND news....you are just copying and pasting from anti muslim hate sites.....

Their magic wand is broken, PS. They are working on the problem and obviously they are making inroads. That is the important thing to consider.

Oh I see !! let us read from your own site you quoted:

The percentage of all rapes and sexual assaults that were reported to police rose to 53.7% last year, up from less than 30% in 1999, the report found. this increase should be interpreted cautiously, given the small sample size...

or shall we expect A WOMAN as president in the white house soon ?????????????

:D

But no one group can accomplish these things overnight. The important thing is that they're trying to do something to educate and enlighten people, and they are making progress toward their goals.

And you think Muslims are not doing anything to curb some abuses right ?????????? PATHETIC REALLY.

There's no need for you to be so vituperative in your responses, PS. It only makes you look ridiculous. Either acknowledge that there is a problem that needs to be addressed, or prove that there isn't.

And you too my dear lady, dont make yourself a JOKE by quoting from anti muslim hate sites...if you want me to take you seriously, then stop quoting from hate sites, and I promise you, AN ARAB PROMISE THAT CAN NEVER BE BROKEN, that I am prepared to spend days with you debating you in the utmost respectable way.

I dont deny we have a problem, we do, but not as you try to frame it.

[/QUOTE] Here are some more links that provide support for my point, which I hope you will not dismiss as "hearsay":[/QUOTE]

I noticed that your links happen to talk only about Pakistan and most of them established by HINDUS or based in India...!!!
anyway, problems do exist in our society but not as you try to make us believe......here is something YOU NEVER SAW ON YOUR 'FAIR AND BALANCED' MEDIA:

Jordanian ARAB MUSLIM WOMAN wins Arab 'Idol'

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/39416000/jpg/_39416887_karzonleftap203.jpg
Millions of viewers watched Jordan's Diana Karzon win the show

Jordanian fans poured into the streets and let off fireworks on Monday in honour of a teenage singer who won a televised Pop Idol-style contest that has gripped the Arab world.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/tv_and_radio/3162169.stm

SO MUCH OPPRESSION AGAINST THIS 'MUSLIM' WOMAN, RIGHT !!

:rolleyes:

Originally posted by skywalker
well its not important to them. as long as it happens in west it is not religion they will think of a fancy name for that but as soon as it will happen in islamic countery they will start vomiting. typical christian fundo behaviour. PS they are islamophobes if they will hear muslim sneeze they will blame it on Islam.:D

I am used to such people, Vienna is famous islamophobe, while others are just ignorants and brain washed.

I have been debtaing such kind of people for 5 years now, mostly on the internet and through multi media forums, they are making me so strong in my faith, every time they bring something controversial, I go and check it and make some research to discover that most of their ' takings' against Islam are just LIES and BULLSHITE....

it is good for muslims to have idiots like Vienna, he makes them jealous about their religion, indirectly, he make them more attached to Islam.

:cool:

Originally posted by Vienna
Margaret Thatcher - British Prime Minister.

YEARS before Thatcher was elected, poor muslim country ( Banghladish ) had already WOMAN PRIME MINISTER !!

:p

Adultery punishment in the Bible's Old and New Testaments:

The following Verses are from the NIV Bible:

Exodus 20:14 "You shall not commit adultery."

Deuteronomy 22:22 "If a man is found sleeping with another man's wife, both the man who slept with her and the woman must die."

Leviticus 20:10 "If a man commits adultery with another man's wife--with the wife of his neighbor--both the adulterer and the adulteress must be put to death."

Proverbs 6:32 "But a man who commits adultery lacks judgment; whoever does so destroys himself." He destroys himself by being put to death as shown above.

Leviticus 21:9 "And the daughter of any priest, if she profane herself by playing the whore, she profaneth her father: she shall be burnt with fire." Why should only a daughter of a priest gets burnt to death if she profanes herself? Why can't this law apply to all daughters?

Deuteronomy 25:11-12 "If two men are fighting and the wife of one of them comes to rescue her husband from his assailant, and she reaches out and seizes him by his private parts, you shall cut off her hand. Show her no pity." This doesn't make any sense what so ever! Why should the woman get her hands cut off for defending her husband? It's not like she was cheating on him or anything like that!

wtf ??? cut her hands?? next time it happens to you you should cut your wifes hand how about that?? cook law isn't it?

are you gona write a new bible now? change some laws again? vienna you are such a hypocrite you never read your own bible and come here and starting vomiting against muslims. go back and read bible and then come back or just shut your hole.

Originally posted by Proud_Syrian

it is good for muslims to have idiots like Vienna, he makes them jealous about their religion, indirectly, he make them more attached to Islam.

:cool:


i don give a fuck if he comes to islam or not we already have fanatics and chrisitainty have people like him too bad he never read the bible.:rolleyes:

Originally posted by Vienna
Come on - lets get multicultural - why should insults be all one-sided you sad black muslim fucker.

And he is not only ISLAMOPHOBE, but RACIST AS WELL !!!

Originally posted by skywalker

Please note that I just would like to prove to the reader that the Bible gives absolutely no religious freedom what so ever.
Who are you trying to fool you agitated gibbering banana-shaped dildo-sucking cum-farting babbling butthead?
I just left Christianity - and I don't fear anyone for it you arse faced baboon.

But -
The prospect of prosecution is very real for a Muslim who leaves Islam, especially if they are present in a Muslim country, like Iran, Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia and the rest of the Middle East.

According to Sharia (Islamic Law), an apostate must be killed. This is given in Sahih Bukhari Hadith.

Did you see and read that - do you want me to repeat it asswipe.

According to Sharia (Islamic Law), an apostate must be killed. This is given in Sahih Bukhari Hadith.

For fucks sake, you are really hard work thicko!


Proud Syrian and Skywalker you two are the thickest dumbwits ever to walk this planet, and you believe in the most barbaric and most violent of all known religions.

I would get more sense from a couple of pigs.

Originally posted by Proud_Syrian
Jordanian ARAB MUSLIM WOMAN wins Arab 'Idol'

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/39416000/jpg/_39416887_karzonleftap203.jpg
Millions of viewers watched Jordan's Diana Karzon win the show


i intend to inform bush that jordan has wmd
hopefully that fat cow gets snuffed!

ps:before the contest did she spend sometime in a "fattening room"

Originally posted by spookz
i intend to inform bush that jordan has wmd
hopefully that fat cow gets snuffed!

ps:before the contest did she spend sometime in a "fattening room"
He hee, I would like to have seen what the losers looked like.

I can imagine the scene........

Like a heard of rejected elephants they trampled away from the studios weeping into their moustaches, their thoughts now focused for their next gruelling contest "The hairiest armpit competition".

:D

Originally posted by Proud_Syrian
Hell, do you understand English ?? Even the Idiot vienna posted a verse from the Quran that shows CLEARLY the condemnation of rape in the Quran.

I did see his quotes regarding adultery, but apparently I missed the one condemning rape. Would you mind reposting it?


From your own site:

''The percentage of all rapes and sexual assaults that were reported to police rose to 53.7% last year, up from less than 30% in 1999, the report found. ''

there are still 47 % of raped women who DONT report....LONG WAY AHEAD.

Perhaps you failed to see the point that in 1999, only 30% of rapes were reported, which rose to 53.7% in a fairly short space of time. I would consider that a significant increase, but it seems that you are looking for a magic wand to immediately solve all problems. I'm not even asking that of Islam - I'm just hoping for progress, period.

I am still waiting to name me ONE american president or even vice-president who happen to be Woman !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

What does that have to do with women being stoned to death for reporting a rape they cannot prove? It is a completely unrelated topic.

In the U.S., we have free elections, and there is certainly no requirement for a candidate to be male. We have had several female candidates for the U.S. presidency, but no serious contenders. Do you expect the American public to vote for the first woman who runs, regardless of her qualifications or her ability to do the job? When a woman runs for president who happens to be the best candidate for the job, I have no doubt she will be voted in by the American public.

Originally posted by skywalker
well its not important to them. as long as it happens in west it is not religion they will think of a fancy name for that but as soon as it will happen in islamic countery they will start vomiting. typical christian fundo behaviour. PS they are islamophobes if they will hear muslim sneeze they will blame it on Islam.:D

So now I am a Christian fundamentalist??? Now that's funny!!! By the way, just for your information, I'm about as Christian as Medicine*Woman. :D

Oh - and just so you are aware - the United States is not a Christian nation.

Proud_Syrian & Skywalker,

I'm just wondering what is the point of posting all those bible verses? If either of you had been paying the least bit of attention, you would have noticed that my anti-Christian posts far outweigh my anti-Islam posts. Bible-babble is more closely related to your religious beliefs than mine - trust me.

Originally posted by Proud_Syrian
You are making youself a joke !! you post a GEOCITIES.COM site wanting us to believe it!! give us a break.

I am quoting from MAIN SOURCES, FIRST HAND news....you are just copying and pasting from anti muslim hate sites.....

We've been over this already, but if you need to hear it again, the Geocities site was quoting the NY Times. I have also quoted and/or linked to at least 2 sites that you posted links for - what more do you want?

And you think Muslims are not doing anything to curb some abuses right ?????????? PATHETIC REALLY.

As I recall, I actually complimented two of the links you provided (the pro-Muslim women ones), but you apparently failed to notice.

And you too my dear lady, dont make yourself a JOKE by quoting from anti muslim hate sites...if you want me to take you seriously, then stop quoting from hate sites, and I promise you, AN ARAB PROMISE THAT CAN NEVER BE BROKEN, that I am prepared to spend days with you debating you in the utmost respectable way.

The problem is the way you define anti-Muslim hate sites - if it says anything at all critical of anything to do with Islam, you and the other Muslims on this site automatically brand it an anti-Muslim hate site - even when they have a completely valid point!

......here is something YOU NEVER SAW ON YOUR 'FAIR AND BALANCED' MEDIA:

Jordanian ARAB MUSLIM WOMAN wins Arab 'Idol'...

...Millions of viewers watched Jordan's Diana Karzon win the show

Jordanian fans poured into the streets and let off fireworks on Monday in honour of a teenage singer who won a televised Pop Idol-style contest that has gripped the Arab world.

Again, what does this have to do with women being stoned for being raped? Why do you keep trying to sidestep this issue, as if it was so unimportant you couldn't be bothered to address it?

Nehushta

It appears your posts have fallen on deaf ears, they can't see that their precious Islam is violent and barbaric.

By the way

Did you know - Quran (4:34) advises a man to beat his wife if she doesn't obey him?

Quran 4:34: Men are the maintainers of women because Allah has made some of them to excel others and because they spend out of their property; the good women are therefore obedient, guarding the unseen as Allah has guarded; and (as to) those on whose part you fear desertion, admonish them, and leave them alone in their sleeping places and beat them; then if they obey you, do not seek a way against them; surely Allah is High, Great. :rolleyes:

You might be interested in looking at this page.

Women and Religious Oppression (http://www.geocities.com/middleeastwomen/html/oppression.htm)

Originally posted by Vienna
Who are you trying to fool you agitated gibbering banana-shaped dildo-sucking cum-farting babbling butthead?
I just left Christianity - and I don't fear anyone for it you arse faced baboon.

But -
The prospect of prosecution is very real for a Muslim who leaves Islam, especially if they are present in a Muslim country, like Iran, Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia and the rest of the Middle East.

According to Sharia (Islamic Law), an apostate must be killed. This is given in Sahih Bukhari Hadith.

Did you see and read that - do you want me to repeat it asswipe.

According to Sharia (Islamic Law), an apostate must be killed. This is given in Sahih Bukhari Hadith.

For fucks sake, you are really hard work thicko!


Proud Syrian and Skywalker you two are the thickest dumbwits ever to walk this planet, and you believe in the most barbaric and most violent of all known religions.

I would get more sense from a couple of pigs.


ah how tolerant peacfull post. such a tolerant relgion and such tolerant perosn you are............so i am thick dumbwit since i showed u a mirror..........lol.

You are such a peacfull person., you show such a tolerance about others........i can see that you proved it.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Come on - lets get multicultural - why should insults be all one-sided you sad black muslim fucker.----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Don't hate kido. It will only kill you. You can't answer anything but you can rant and whine and bitch that is all you can do since you have no answers....................

see how a christian fundo gets all tolerant and shows his **real face***

Need a napkin vieenna to wipe your tears??
Now you say you left christianity? i am only begning to enjoy this and you left the christianity oh no.................lol don't leave your religion because it just barbaric........ it is just the begning. Why don't you read the bible kido and then come back and attack other religions and see how much it is.

Originally posted by Vienna
Who are you trying to fool you agitated gibbering banana-shaped dildo-sucking cum-farting babbling butthead?
I just left Christianity - and I don't fear anyone for it you arse faced baboon.

But -
The prospect of prosecution is very real for a Muslim who leaves Islam, especially if they are present in a Muslim country, like Iran, Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia and the rest of the Middle East.

According to Sharia (Islamic Law), an apostate must be killed. This is given in Sahih Bukhari Hadith.

Did you see and read that - do you want me to repeat it asswipe.

According to Sharia (Islamic Law), an apostate must be killed. This is given in Sahih Bukhari Hadith.

For fucks sake, you are really hard work thicko!

.


shaih bukhari? is that equal to Quran? does Quran said kill them???????

show you proof and i will show mine. go on start vomiting again show your real face.

**Who are you trying to fool you agitated gibbering banana-shaped dildo-sucking cum-farting babbling butthead?
I just left Christianity - and I don't fear anyone for it you arse faced baboon.**

Oh and i left islam now jsut for you. No one is coming to kill me..................or are they?



:rolleyes:

Originally posted by skywalker
ah how tolerant peacfull post. such a tolerant relgion and such tolerant perosn you are............so i am thick dumbwit since i showed u a mirror..........lol.

You are such a peacfull person., you show such a tolerance about others........i can see that you proved it.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Come on - lets get multicultural - why should insults be all one-sided you sad black muslim fucker.----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Don't hate kido. It will only kill you. You can't answer anything but you can rant and whine and bitch that is all you can do since you have no answers....................

see how a christian fundo gets all tolerant and shows his **real face***

Need a napkin vieenna to wipe your tears??
Now you say you left christianity? i am only begning to enjoy this and you left the christianity oh no.................lol don't leave your religion because it just barbaric........ it is just the begning. Why don't you read the bible kido and then come back and attack other religions and see how much it is.

Originally posted by skywalker
shaih bukhari? is that equal to Quran? does Quran said kill them???????

show you proof and i will show mine. go on start vomiting again show your real face.

**Who are you trying to fool you agitated gibbering banana-shaped dildo-sucking cum-farting babbling butthead?
I just left Christianity - and I don't fear anyone for it you arse faced baboon.**

Oh and i left islam now jsut for you. No one is coming to kill me..................or are they?

:rolleyes:

Now calm down little fella - no ones going to hurt you. There there!

You see it's not nice when people treat you the same way a Muslim treats others.

All that name calling, all that nastiness, you see there is no need for it at all.

Islam is a violent and barbaric religion and the sooner it grows up and becomes civilised, it has a better chance of being recognised.

Now trot along like a good little boy and go tell your priests (or whatever it is you call them) that this nasty little religion is 500 years behind civilisation.

:)

And a reminder to prove how nasty Islam is, look in the Qur'an.

Quran (4:34) advises a man to beat his wife if she doesn't obey him?

Quran 4:34: Men are the maintainers of women because Allah has made some of them to excel others and because they spend out of their property; the good women are therefore obedient, guarding the unseen as Allah has guarded; and (as to) those on whose part you fear desertion, admonish them, and leave them alone in their sleeping places and beat them; then if they obey you, do not seek a way against them; surely Allah is High, Great.

Originally posted by Vienna
Now calm down little fella - no ones going to hurt you. There there!

You see it's not nice when people treat you the same way a Muslim treats others.

All that name calling, all that nastiness, you see there is no need for it at all.
.

:)

Islam is no more barbaric than Christianity. All those posts above are or most of them are from Bible itself. How could one deny that fact?


I see you did more name calling than any one else. Why is that? Frustration is not the answer rather a question. Can you please explain the above posts about Bible. Why is such a nobel and peaceful book has such barbaric laws?

Can you please use your single brain cell and show us how Islam is more evil than christianity.

Where in the Quran does it says to kill Apostates? Please provide proof of what you claim.



Nehusta, I like to give you following explaination since you posed a question ( atleast I hope that it was your intent ).



Please show me where does Islamic Law says that rape victims should be Stonned to death.

Again, what does this have to do with women being stoned for being raped? Why do you keep trying to sidestep this issue, as if it was so unimportant you couldn't be bothered to address

If you are caliming that above is proven Islamic law, I would like to see that, thank you.

My explanianation about apostate in Islam might help you understand the concept and there is no punishment to kill them as well as Vienna tried to fabricate such punishment.

DEFINITION OF APOSTATE
This means that whoever turns back from his faith, that is to say, whoever, out of fear of the sword or being unsettled by opposition, announces that he abjures Islam, is an apostate. In the idiom of Islam an apostate is not one concerning whom someone else says that he has abjured Islam. There is no mention of any such person in the Holy Quran. It says that if a person announces voluntarily that he has abjured Islam and thereafter dies in his state of disbelief, the works of such a one will be vain in this world and the next and he will be an inmate of the fire wherein he shall abide. Thus the punishment of a person who voluntarily abjures Islam after having believed, is the same as that of a disbeliever who voluntarily abstains from accepting Islam. There is no mention here, or anywhere else, of any punishment for an apostate in this world which may be inflicted by human hands, politically or administratively.

The Holy Quran says: Surely, those who have turned away after guidance has been made manifest to them have been deceived by Satan who has beguiled them with false hopes (47:26). This means that a person who, out of weakness or misfortune, voluntarily proclaims that he abjures Islam and departs from it and thus, having entered the circle of Islam, goes out of it after having fully under- stood it, does so because of his having been beguiled by Satan with false hopes. He who abjures Islam relying on the false hopes held out to him by Satan and makes those hopes the basis of his conduct, cannot look forward to any good from God Almighty.

Then it is said: O ye who believe, whoso from among you turns back from his religion should remember that in his stead Allah will soon bring a people whom He will love and who will love Him, who will be kind and considerate towards the believers and firm and unyielding towards the disbelievers. They will strive hard in the cause of Allah, and striving against their own selves they will seek to mould their natures according to the pleasure of God in the light of the guidance of Islam. They will not at all take to heart the reproaches of the fault-finders. Their hearts will be filled only with the fear of God. This is Allah's grace. He bestows it upon whosoever He pleases. Allah is the Lord of vast bounty, All-knowing (5:55).

Again it is said: Allah will not guide those who do not believe in the Signs of Allah, and they shall have a grievous punishment; this is followed by: Whoso disbelieves in Allah after he has believed, excepting the case of one who is forced to make a declaration of disbelief while his heart rests securely in faith, but one who opens his mind wide to disbelief, on him is Allah's wrath and he shall have a grievous punishment (16: 105,107). Here it is affirmed that faith is related to the heart and mind, for it is said: But one who opens his mind wide to disbelief. That which is related to the heart cannot be affected or changed by any material power or physical force. It is impossible that such power or force should be able to modify the conditions, feelings or emotions of the heart. The verse mentions the case of a person who denies God after having believed. A person believes in God Almighty, having comprehended the reasons in support of the truth of Islam and having observed the divine Signs which establish the truth and greatness of Muhammad, peace be on him, and yet he voluntarily affirms that he denies Muhammad, he is not one who makes such an affirmation under compulsion in consequence of some weakness. With regard to such a one who opens his mind wide to disbelief voluntarily after having believed and affirms that he denies God, the One and Unique, Who had sent Muhammad, peace be on him, and that he does not believe that Islam is a true religion, God Almighty says that on him will be His wrath and he shall have a grievous punishment. Such a punishment might overtake him in this life also, but the true recompense of conduct in this life is related to the hereafter.

Then it is said: Whoso seeks a religion other than Islam, it shall not be accepted from him, and in the life to come he shall be among the losers. How shall Allah guide a people who have disbelieved after having believed and who had borne witness that the Messenger is true and to whom clear proofs had come? Allah guides not the wrongdoers. Of such the punishment is that on them shall be the curse of Allah and of angels and of men, all together; there under shall they abide. Their punishment shall not be lightened nor shall they be granted respite; except those who repent thereafter and amend. Surely, Allah is Most Forgiving, Ever Merciful (3: 86-90).

Here it is affirmed that those who disbelieve after having believed, and having observed signs and evidence that the Messenger of God is true, and who announce that they have discarded faith and have adopted the ways of disbelief, would be punished by God Almighty in the hereafter; except such of them who repent and amend their ways in this very life. If after the affirmation of their apostacy their punishment, according to the Holy Quran, had been death, they would have had no time for repentance and amendment and this portion of the verse would have been meaning- less. This verse shows that such people ought to be afforded the opportunity to repent and amend at any time before their death and to accept Islam and to come back into its fold and seek the forgiveness of God Almighty. If they are granted forgiveness, God, Who is Most Forgiving and Ever Merciful, would cover up their sins and, forgiving them, would bestow His mercy upon them and would admit them to the gardens of His pleasure. But if a person after having believed adopts the way of disbelief and is not granted any opportunity of repentance and amendment, that is to say, is not permitted to live out his natural life but is put to death and is deprived of the opportunity of repentance and amendment, the divine attributes of forgiveness and mercy that are mentioned in the verse would not come into play, in his case, and he would not be able to derive any benefit from them.

Vienna, if above doesn't staisfy you than please do not reply to this post by using your single brain cell. Get some help and than reply. Than you very much.

Originally posted by Nehushta
Why are women considered inferior according to Islam? More specifically, why is a rape victim considered a "criminal" worthy of being stoned to death when a rape occurs (unless, of course, there happened to be present four male Muslims of upright character who witnessed the rape and are willing to testify against the rapist)?

For your reference, here is a story of a woman in Pakistan who was raped by her brother-in-law, and is imprisoned on death-row for "her" crime: In Pakistan, Rape Victims Are the 'Criminals' (http://www.geocities.com/inquisitive79/rape.html). This is disgusting beyond belief.


I am sorry to say this but above news may not be true. I see no back up of the above news. I don't see any where about Islam beeing the source of this punishment rather I see the serious problem with education and backword living, poverty etc as the main reason since you Said it is Islam's fault as a title of your post, I think you should Change the title to make it look more appropiate.


Where does it says it is Islam where the rape victims are Criminal, it says it is Pakistan. Pakistan does not follow Sharia laws and even in Sharia law please show me where it says that Rape vicitms are Crimnals. If you can provide the copy of original article with date/year it would be great, other wise even if the above news is true it holds no crediablity.


Thank you

http://www.hraic.org/getting_stoned.html

PAKISTAN Honour killings of girls and women (http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index/engASA330181999)

Originally posted by Vienna
http://www.hraic.org/getting_stoned.html

Thank you. But I already know the above. It still doesn't say anything about the post topic. It is a simple law for men and women both.

My question is still un answered where does Islam says that Rape victims are criminal and punished by death.

Also, in your link it says lots of countries wants to impose this law but they didn't so far. I beleive somewhere some one mentioned about the restriction about stonning and what should be done before the punishment, like witnesses etc.

In the times of Mohammad (saw) and after him, the punishment has been the same. If he ordered stonning by law and with proper witnesses, I don't see anything wrong but you might since you are thinking from different perspective. I believe law is a law, and the main reason of that law is not to encourage more crimes but to scare people that they won't even try to do it. Your opinion may differ from mine but I think that is why we have laws. I hope that you understand what I am trying to point out.

Originally posted by Vienna
PAKISTAN Honour killings of girls and women (http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index/engASA330181999)


Not Islamic, but cultural. It is norm in Pakistan, India, Bangladesh and Nepal, Sri Lanka etc.

In hidu religion, it doesn't say to kill for honor but they do it anyways way more than any where else. But it is not their religion but the poverty and education etc etc. Same goes for Islamic countries ruled by power hungry greedy rulers.

However it is easy for you or anyone else outside those countries to blame it all on religion, since it is the easiest way to understand it.

Originally posted by Vienna

According to Sharia (Islamic Law), an apostate must be killed. This is given in Sahih Bukhari Hadith.



HERE IS MY CHALLENGE TO YOU, SHOW ME ONE SINGLE VERSE FROM THE QURAN THAT CALLS FOR THE DEATH OF THOSE WHO LEAVE ISLAM AND I WILL CONVERT TO CHRISTIANITY STRAIGHT AWAY !!!!!!!!!!!!! THIS IS OPEN CHALLENGE TO EVERY ONE HERE.......COME ON, GO AHEAD.......YOU HAVE ALL THE ANTI MUSLIM HATE SITES IN THE WORLD TO SNIFF THROUGH !!!!!

Originally posted by Nehushta
I did see his quotes regarding adultery, but apparently I missed the one condemning rape. Would you mind reposting it?

Never mind, here are more noble verses for you:

[5:5] …….. You shall maintain CHASTITY, not committing adultery, nor taking secret lovers. Anyone who rejects faith, all his work will be in vain, and in the Hereafter he will be with the losers.

[24:30] Tell the believing men that they shall subdue their eyes (and not stare at the women), and to maintain their CHASTITY. This is purer for them. GOD is fully Cognizant of everything they do.

[24:31] And tell the believing women to subdue their eyes, and maintain their CHASTITY.

About the believers; God teaches us;

[23:5] And they maintain their CHASTITY.

And in Sura (Chapter) 70, again

[70:29] They keep their CHASTITY.

In addition to condemnation of the sexual crime involved in rape as we can see above, God strongly condemns the oppression element of rape in the strongest possible language. God, in the Quran, describes oppression as "worse than murder." This puts rape among the worst crimes committed by a human being in the sight of God.

[2:191] …….. OPPRESSION is worse than murder. See also, [2:217]

God in the Quran also did not save the words to condemn prostitution, especially when oppression and forcing the young girls is a factor and this makes it different than a prostitution practiced by consenting adults, and it would place it in the category of rape. Of course both kinds are condemned but adding the oppression factor changes its nature into a rape with its consequence of higher need for a stronger punishment.

[24:33] ……..You shall not force your girls to commit prostitution, seeking the materials of this world, if they wish to be chaste. If anyone forces them, then GOD, seeing that they are forced, is Forgiver, Merciful.

Perhaps you failed to see the point that in 1999, only 30% of rapes were reported, which rose to 53.7% in a fairly short space of time. I would consider that a significant increase, but it seems that you are looking for a magic wand to immediately solve all problems. I'm not even asking that of Islam - I'm just hoping for progress, period.

As I said earlier, you still have 47% who DONT report rape !! I am just wondering why !! could it be that as the stats tell us they will be killed by their rapists !!!!

FIX YOUR OWN SICK SOCIETY BEFORE YOU CRITICIZE OTHERS.

What does that have to do with women being stoned to death for reporting a rape they cannot prove? It is a completely unrelated topic.

No, it is not unrelated topic, we are talking about Rape and the status of Women in the Muslim world, I gave you many examples about MUSLIM women who made it to became presidents and PRIME Ministers.....while in your 'free civilized' society, you dont even dream to have a woman vice president let alone president !

UNTIL YOU GET TO OUR LEVEL OF DEVELOPMENT ( BY ELECTING WOMAN PRESIDENT) YOU HAVE NO RIGHT TO TALK ABOUT MUSLIM WOMEN.....NOW, WE ARE AHEAD OF YOU......YOU STILL HAVE LONG WAY AHEAD.

In the U.S., we have free elections, and there is certainly no requirement for a candidate to be male. We have had several female candidates for the U.S. presidency, but no serious contenders. Do you expect the American public to vote for the first woman who runs, regardless of her qualifications or her ability to do the job? When a woman runs for president who happens to be the best candidate for the job, I have no doubt she will be voted in by the American public.

And the question is why those women were NOT serious contenders, why there arent enough AMERICAN women who can challenge the authority of man in U.S. Politics ????

it is all to do with your sick society where you treat woman like SEXUAL OBJECTS WITH CERTAIN EXPIRY DATE...SHAME REALLY.

Let us see the difference between WESTERN WOMAN and MUSLIM WOMAN:

The Satanic Group - The biotic fuel for hell fire:

http://www.answering-christianity.com/swimsuit3.jpg
Even though I tried to pick the least sexual pictures, but in general, this is what a typical Christian Western woman would look like when she is at either the beach (wearing bikinis) or health club, where 95% to 99% of her body is totally exposed to men. What's most ironic is seeing them wearing the "Cross" necklaces. Women in the west are considered nothing but "sex objects", and most of them are less likely to remain virgins before marriage. No true man would die for cheap quality of this kind. It is very tragic that women in the West are raised to show off their sexuality and are stereotyped by their sexuality.

http://www.answering-christianity.com/p6_girlpray.jpg
This is a picture of a typical Muslim woman. Pure, innocent, virgin (until marriage) and non sexual. A true man would be willing to die for a true and blessed angel of that kind, because if she's faithful to her GOD Almighty, then she will definitely be faithful and honorable to her family.

Originally posted by Nehushta
Proud_Syrian & Skywalker,

I'm just wondering what is the point of posting all those bible verses? If either of you had been paying the least bit of attention, you would have noticed that my anti-Christian posts far outweigh my anti-Islam posts. Bible-babble is more closely related to your religious beliefs than mine - trust me.

Those bible verses are not related to you but rather to the IDIOT Vienna, because he is christian loser.

Originally posted by Nehushta
We've been over this already, but if you need to hear it again, the Geocities site was quoting the NY Times. I have also quoted and/or linked to at least 2 sites that you posted links for - what more do you want?

And we already established that I 'dont' consider NYTimes to be credible source.

As I recall, I actually complimented two of the links you provided (the pro-Muslim women ones), but you apparently failed to notice.

Thanks, point taken.

The problem is the way you define anti-Muslim hate sites - if it says anything at all critical of anything to do with Islam, you and the other Muslims on this site automatically brand it an anti-Muslim hate site - even when they have a completely valid point![QUOTE]

Look, ISLAM IS PERFECT, MUSLIMS ARE NOT....so, of course there will be cases of abuse against women in the muslim world but this has NOTHING to do with Islam, it is to do with SOME BACKWARD CULTURES OUT THERE...and remember we are 57 MUSLIM COUNTRY with different cultures and traditions...Any attempt by you or others to relate this abuse with Islam will be CRUSHED because you have no single evidence from the Quran about ISLAM ENCOURAGING SUCH ABUSES.

[QUOTE]Again, what does this have to do with women being stoned for being raped? Why do you keep trying to sidestep this issue, as if it was so unimportant you couldn't be bothered to address it?

I am not trying to sidestep the issue, I am trying to explain to you that the issue of women abuse in any society cant be looked at as separate phenomena but rather an integrated problem related to other problems in the society.

Originally posted by Vienna
Nehushta

It appears your posts have fallen on deaf ears, they can't see that their precious Islam is violent and barbaric.


[B]RAPING AND ENSLAVING IN THE BIBLE

What the New Testament has to say:

1 Timothy 2:11-14 "Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression."

1 Corinthians 14:34 "Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church."

Men can shave the women's heads if women don't cover their heads ! PATHETIC REALLY :)

1 Corinthians 11:5-10: "But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered dishonoureth her head: for that is even all one as if she were shaven. For if the woman be not covered, let her also be shorn: but if it be a shame for a woman to be shorn or shaven, let her be covered. For a man indeed ought not to cover his head, forasmuch as he is the image and glory of God: but the woman is the glory of the man. For the man is not of the woman: but the woman of the man. Neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man. For this cause ought the woman to have power on her head because of the angels."

1 Corinthians 11:13: "Judge in yourselves: is it comely that a woman pray unto God (with her head) uncovered?"

http://www.answering-christianity.com

Originally posted by Vienna

Islam is a violent and barbaric religion and the sooner it grows up and becomes civilised, it has a better chance of being recognised.


If Islam is violent and barbaric as you say, how come it is OFFICIALLY the fastest growing religion in the world ?????

:p

If it's images your into.......

http://www.hraic.org/stoning.jpg

Apostasy Law: The Persecution of Converts

Islamic law (Shari'ah) states that Muslim men who convert to another faith (apostatize) and refuse to return to Islam should be put to death.

According to some schools of Shari'ah this should also be applied to women as well.

Proud Syrian - tell us why this is still practised today.

Originally posted by Proud_Syrian
If Islam is violent and barbaric as you say, how come it is OFFICIALLY the fastest growing religion in the world ?????

:p
Who says it's official, under what authority, and who counted them ??? lol!

And who gives a dam? :D

Originally posted by Vienna
[B]If it's images your into.......



These are OLD pictures from 1980s, and the picture shows clearly that the one who is stoned is MAN not WOMAN.

Thanks VIENNA for being such a great help....you moron.

:D

Originally posted by Vienna
Apostasy Law: The Persecution of Converts

Islamic law (Shari'ah) states that Muslim men who convert to another faith (apostatize) and refuse to return to Islam should be put to death.


WHY YOU ARE RUNNING AWAY FROM MY CHALLENGE TO YOU, I ALREADY POSTED IT TWICE BEFORE AND HERE IS IT AGAIN.............VIENNA:I CHALLENGE YOU TO SHOW ME ONE SINGLE VERSE FROM THE QURAN THAT CALLS FOR THE DEATH OF THOSE WHO LEAVE ISLAM AND I WILL CONVERT TO CHRISTIANITY STRAIGHT AWAY !!!!!!!!!!!!! THIS IS OPEN CHALLENGE TO EVERY ONE HERE.......COME ON, GO AHEAD.......YOU HAVE ALL THE ANTI MUSLIM HATE SITES IN THE WORLD TO SNIFF THROUGH !!!!!

be careful syrian, you seem to almost blow a fuse there. You might end up dead of a heart atack before you can convert to christianity.




just a link (which has nothing to do with the topic)
devil worshippers (http://news.independent.co.uk/world/middle_east/story.jsp?story=468225)

Originally posted by Proud_Syrian
VIENNA:I CHALLENGE YOU TO SHOW ME ONE SINGLE VERSE FROM THE QURAN THAT CALLS FOR THE DEATH OF THOSE WHO LEAVE ISLAM
ROFLMFAO!!!!!:D

I never said it was in the qur'an you baboon.....LOL!!!!!!!!!!

It is Islamic law (Shari'ah) ISLAMIC LAW jerk!

Apostasy Law: The Persecution of Converts

Islamic law (Shari'ah) states that Muslim men who convert to another faith (apostatize) and refuse to return to Islam should be put to death.

According to some schools of Shari'ah this should also be applied to women as well.

Proud Syrian - tell us why this is still practised today.

I have a feeling your gonna deny all knowledge of it..ROFLMFAO!! :D

Originally posted by Vienna
I never said it was in the qur'an you baboon.....LOL!!!!!!!!!!

It is Islamic law (Shari'ah) ISLAMIC LAW jerk!

I have a feeling your gonna deny all knowledge of it..

Such an Asshole, you dont know even what SHARIA LAW MEANS OR WHERE THE SHARIA TAKE ITS LAWS FROM........SUCH AN IDIOT.

:D

Go on then PROUD SYRIAN

Tell us all about Shari'ah law

Proud Syrian - tell us why this is still practised today.

I have a feeling your gonna deny all knowledge of it..ROFLMFAO!!

:D

Originally posted by Vienna
ROFLMFAO!!!!!:D

I never said it was in the qur'an you baboon.....LOL!!!!!!!!!!

It is Islamic law (Shari'ah) ISLAMIC LAW jerk!

Apostasy Law: The Persecution of Converts

Islamic law (Shari'ah) states that Muslim men who convert to another faith (apostatize) and refuse to return to Islam should be put to death.

According to some schools of Shari'ah this should also be applied to women as well.
!! :D [/B]


I thought I explained you above about apostate. Shariah does have some exterme elemnts in it but the death penalty to Apostates is not Islamic but men made. It is significant to note that it is only taken from hadiths and also those hadiths are narrated by so many people and I don't even know who to believe. But again it has nothing to do with Quran and I am glad that you Acknowledge it, I do not have any first hand knowledge of shariah law since only two coutnries in the world practice this law and all other countries have their reservations due to authencity problems of lots of thing in this law so it is really not wide spread. I believe S.Arbia and Iran are the only two countries who practise this law.


Nehusta, can you please check my post directed to you and tell me if that made sense to you or not? Thank you.

My question:


Where does it says it is Islam where the rape victims are Criminal, it says it is Pakistan. Pakistan does not follow Sharia laws and even in Sharia law please show me where it says that Rape vicitms are Crimnals. If you can provide the copy of original article with date/year it would be great, other wise even if the above news is true it holds no crediablity.


Thank you

Originally posted by Markx
Shariah . I believe S.Arbia and Iran are the only two countries who practise this law.
Saudi Arabia, Malaysia, Zamfara, Iran and in Pakistan former Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif called for Sharia to be made supreme law in 1998.

Originally posted by Vienna
Go on then PROUD SYRIAN

Tell us all about Shari'ah law


You see, when this 'uncircumcized animal' get cornered, he goes on begging for someone to explain to him what is Sharia law is !

TYPICAL MORON.

:D

Originally posted by Proud_Syrian
You see, when this 'uncircumcized animal' get cornered, he goes on begging for someone to explain to him what is Sharia law is !

TYPICAL MORON.

:D
Proud Syrian - It's a simple enough request

Tell us all about Shari'ah law

Tell us why this is still practised today

proud syrian. you are one of the most impolite people I have ever met. And don't tell me that other people deserve such abuse. You give islam a bad name.

Originally posted by Vienna
Saudi Arabia, Malaysia, Zamfara, Iran and in Pakistan former Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif called for Sharia to be made supreme law in 1998.

Never heard of zmafara. Pakistan doesn't ahve sharia law as a supereme law, go on please vomit again. That Primie minster tried but it never got implemented and kido do you live on welfare??? cause you post all day and night. I hate to see your fellow countrymen's tax money wasted on a bum like you.:D

go on kido please vomit.

Originally posted by Markx
Nehusta, can you please check my post directed to you and tell me if that made sense to you or not? Thank you.

My question:

Where does it says it is Islam where the rape victims are Criminal, it says it is Pakistan. Pakistan does not follow Sharia laws and even in Sharia law please show me where it says that Rape vicitms are Crimnals. If you can provide the copy of original article with date/year it would be great, other wise even if the above news is true it holds no crediablity.

Thank you

Hi Markx,

Sorry I haven't been able to spend any time on the computer since Saturday evening - I spent most of my 4-day holiday weekend on the computer, so I actually had to get something done yesterday. Now I'm back at work (which starts in about 5 minutes), and I won't have time to respond to anything until I get home from work this evening - in about 11 or 12 hours from now (unless I'm lucky enough to be left alone on my lunch hour for 15 minutes - I wouldn't bet on it, though).

I just got through skimming through all the posts I didn't get to read yesterday, and it looks as though I'll really have my work cut out for me!

My quick and dirty answer to your question would be that the Quran doesn't say that rape victims are criminals (I'm assuming that's what you meant by your question, but if not, then please clarify what you did mean), but then, I haven't found anything in the Quran that says it is appropriate to stone adulterers either (I may be wrong on that point, so feel free to correct me if necessary). But it is known that Mohamed did have adulterers stoned, so how did he justify such a practice? And according to Islamic law, a woman who accuses a man of rape but can't prove it (due to a lack of four male Muslim witnesses), is considered to be admitting to adultery - do you agree with that statement?

Okay - I'm late getting back to work now. I'll pick this up again this evening.

Originally posted by skywalker
Never heard of zmafara. Pakistan doesn't ahve sharia law as a supereme law, go on please vomit again. That Primie minster tried but it never got implemented and kido do you live on welfare??? cause you post all day and night. I hate to see your fellow countrymen's tax money wasted on a bum like you.:D

go on kido please vomit.
I answer a question and all you do is insult me
Go fuck yourself